Shownotes
Guest: Leontyne 'Tyne' Evans, The Relationship Saver
In this episode, story coach Robrenna is joined by Leontyne 'Tyne' Evans, a licensed marriage and family therapist, sex therapist, and counselor. They discuss the challenges and importance of reclaiming sensuality and intimacy after toxic or abusive relationships. The conversation covers how emotional, psychological, sexual, spiritual, and relational harm can impact body autonomy, desire, and safety. We discuss how purity culture influences body image and sexual experiences, the difference between sensuality and sexuality, and the importance of slow, steady self-compassion in the healing process. They also address trauma bonding, differentiating between sensual desire and trauma reenactment, and rebuilding trust in one’s body. This candid discussion aims to provide listeners with insights on creating a safe, self-compassionate space to reconnect with their bodies.
Connect with Leontyne:
TikTok: @therelationshipshaver
Facebook: Tyne Evans
Website: Relationshipgoalsinc.com
Connect with Robrenna:
hello@reclaimingherresilience.com
Facebook: Reclaiming HER Resilience
Instagram: Reclaiming_HER_Resilience
Reclaiming HER Resilience is executive produced and edited by Robrenna Parker.
This podcast is published by RHR Media Co. Where voice is honored, and the story unfolds.
RHR Media Co. is the publishing and media arm of Reclaiming HER Resilience, LLC, creating story-centered media that honors voice, restores agency, and invites women back into authorship of their own lives.
Transcripts
Welcome back, reclaiming Women.
2
:I'm your story coach br Parker.
3
:Before you listen.
4
:I wanna prepare you in this episode,
I'm joined by a licensed sex therapist.
5
:We have an honest conversation
about reclaiming sensuality after
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:toxic or abusive relationships.
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:We use anatomically correct language
and speak directly about body and
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:intimacy that may feel more candid than
what you are used to hearing from me.
9
:It's not for sensationalism, it's
direct and clinical language.
10
:We also address how emotional,
psychological, sexual, spiritual,
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:and relational harm can impact
body, autonomy, desire, and safety.
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:Please listen in a way that honors your
nervous system, and if anything feels
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:activating, pause and care for yourself.
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:As always.
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:Take what resonates.
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:Leave the rest.
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:Robrenna: All right, reclaiming women.
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:Today we are exploring something tender
and often misunderstood, and that is what
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:it means to reconnect with your sensual
self after toxic or abusive experiences
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:and how messages from purity culture can
shape the way we experience our bodies,
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:our pleasure, and our sense of desire.
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:And so today I would like to
welcome our guest, leonine Evans.
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:She is a licensed counselor and
sex therapist who is also an
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:abuse survivor and an advocate
for domestic violence survivors.
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:Thank you for joining us today, teen.
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:Why don't you tell us a
little more about yourself?
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:Leontyne: Well, you did such a good job.
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:I, I mean, like you said,
I'm Leon Teen Evans.
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:I go by teen.
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:Um, I am a licensed marriage and
family therapist and sex and intimacy
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:counselor, and drug and alcohol counselor.
32
:Mm-hmm.
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:Um, if there was anything else
to do in this world, it would
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:just be get another license.
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:Like this is, this is my
love, this is my zone.
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:This is my lane.
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:I love it here.
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:Robrenna: Mm.
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:Leontyne: Um, and I love that you said.
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:Also has experienced these things
like, 'cause that's not my identity.
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:Robrenna: Right.
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:Lived experience.
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:Yeah.
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:It may have shaped you,
but it does not define you.
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:Leontyne: Yes, absolutely.
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:Even, even being a therapist or a
counselor, that is not my identity.
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:That is a role that I have that's just.
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:A part.
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:That's something I do.
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:It's not who I am.
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:Right.
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:So I love that you introduced it that way.
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:Robrenna: Awesome.
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:Okay.
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:So I do know that you support women, um,
as both a counselor and a sex therapist.
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:And I wanna know what inspired you to
support women in reconnecting with their
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:bodies and sensuality in particular?
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:Leontyne: You have to, excuse me.
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:I'm gonna be doing these little dances.
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:'cause I get so excited about it.
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:It's like, eh, I just love it and I love.
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:Us talking about these things because
it is so taboo and, and, and people
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:can't openly have these conversations.
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:And I love to, I love to make people
uncomfortable with it, even so, right.
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:But yeah, to answer your question, I
think, um, honestly, I just saw a lot
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:of women as a therapist, like sitting
across from me that were disconnected
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:from themselves, like brilliant,
successful, like amazing women that have.
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:Nothing like they feel nothing.
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:They're just numb.
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:They're just there.
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:And just ashamed of pleasure and what
it feels like to actually enjoy the
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:experience of sex and intimacy, or even
not even knowing what intimacy was.
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:Um, Coming from a Christian
background and, uh, uh, having
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:experienced, um, sexual abuse.
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:Also understanding what that feels like
to wonder, am I supposed to like this?
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:Like when something, when
pleasure has been taken from you?
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:Mm-hmm.
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:If something has been taken from
you, how do you learn to enjoy that?
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:How do you, mm-hmm.
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:How do you rewire your nervous system?
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:So if I had these questions
and I felt like that.
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:Imagine how many other people have
this and, and then, you know, throwing
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:Christianity into it or spirituality
into it, and women's role in sexuality.
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:Robrenna: Mm-hmm.
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:Leontyne: And there was no one who looked
like me to have these conversations.
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:Robrenna: Hmm.
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:Leontyne: So if there's
not a table, you build one.
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:Robrenna: Right.
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:I love that.
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:I love that.
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:And we know that sensuality and
sexuality, they're distinct,
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:but they're also interconnected.
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:And I, so I'd like to know how
you define sensuality in a way
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:that feels grounding and honoring.
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:Leontyne: Um, sensuality for me is,
it's sexy, but it's, it's a inner
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:sexy, it is fully being present
in your body and experiencing
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:it with all of your senses, like
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:Robrenna: mm-hmm.
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:Leontyne: Noticing the warmth of
your body, the softness of your skin.
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:When you eating, you're savoring the food.
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:You're not just eating the food, you're
experiencing the food that is sensuality.
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:Hmm.
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:So incorporating all of these things
into your sexual experience, but just.
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:Your everyday life, like you can
be sensual and not be sexual.
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:Robrenna: Yes.
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:That's how you said that.
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:People
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:Leontyne: be confused.
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:Robrenna: Yes.
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:I'm so glad you said that because
yes, I agree that sensuality
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:is, it can be an everyday.
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:Practices.
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:And it can also be like, if
you like to dance, you know,
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:how do you feel in movement?
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:Yes.
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:And so I I am,
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:Leontyne: it's not about
performance, it's not about pressure.
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:It's, it's not about anyone else.
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:It's, it's literally about
your own inner experience and
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:your inner being with yourself.
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:Robrenna: Mm-hmm.
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:Leontyne: Yeah.
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:Sensuality should be an
experience of self-love.
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:That's really what it is.
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:Robrenna: Mm.
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:I love that.
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:So can you talk about the role of trauma
bonding in relationships where sensuality
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:and sex feel intense or euphoric?
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:Um, even when the
relationship is harmful, I.
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:Leontyne: Oh, trauma bonds.
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:Trauma bonds create like
an emotional whiplash.
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:Like there's the high highs and then the
low lows and the roller, the rollercoaster
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:that just amplifies everything, right?
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:Mm-hmm.
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:So that's including sex and sensuality.
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:Like your body can, can easily
confused, like adrenaline, right?
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:So like we feel as adrenaline.
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:And we think that's desire.
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:Mm.
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:We think that's love.
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:We think that's, but it, it's, it's
adrenaline and your, your, your hormones
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:are racing and we don't know how to
differentiate between chaos and chemistry.
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:Robrenna: Mm-hmm.
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:Leontyne: That's a big difference.
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:So
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:Robrenna: that's really good chaos and
chemistry, because you have the, you
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:have dopamine and you have the oxytocin.
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:Like all of those are like all
things, the connecting, uh, hormones
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:connecting you to an individual.
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:Uh, but that individual
might be harmful to you, but.
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:Leontyne: Even when it's harmful,
you still experience those things.
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:And so that intensity
feels familiar, right.
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:Um, but it, it, it's addictive, right?
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:So Right.
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:Those hormones that are being released
are the same hormones that are
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:released when people are on drugs.
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:Mm-hmm.
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:Or on, on drinking alcohol.
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:Mm-hmm.
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:So your body doesn't know the difference.
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:So when people say that
they are crazy in love.
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:It it really be
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:Robrenna: Right, right,
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:Leontyne: right, right.
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:You, you really are high off
of that person and your body is
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:signaling you to attach, even
if it's an unhealthy attachment.
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:Robrenna: Oh, I love that you, how you
broke that down, because that does,
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:what people don't understand about
that trauma bond is you're always
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:looking for that next hit, and so
when they are pulling away from you,
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:you're moving forward because you.
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:You need that hit.
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:And so I love that you
did that comparison.
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:Leontyne: Mm-hmm.
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:Robrenna: Uh, because
it is a addictive cycle.
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:Leontyne: Mm-hmm.
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:Robrenna: Um, that that hit.
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:Leontyne: Absolutely.
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:Robrenna: Okay.
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:So what helps women understand that?
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:Oh, this is, I love this question.
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:What helps women understand that
intensity is not the same as intimacy?
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:And that pleasure doesn't
always mean safety.
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:Leontyne: Ooh.
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:That, that right there.
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:Robrenna: Mm-hmm.
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:Leontyne: We can experience pleasure
in the most toxic environments.
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:Robrenna: Yes.
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:Leontyne: A secret that I learned as
a therapist is the most toxic people
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:are usually the best in other areas
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:because people can use sex as a weapon.
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:Yes.
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:And so a lot of abusers.
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:May perform well sexually because that
is a tactic to keep you in the web.
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:Robrenna: Yes.
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:Leontyne: So, um, I just hope
women slow down, like slow
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:down and separate the emotional
experience from the psychological
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:one and the physiological one.
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:Um, intensity is fast.
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:It's, it's, it's adrenaline, it's racing.
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:It's exciting, it's
consuming, it's overwhelming.
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:Robrenna: Mm-hmm.
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:Leontyne: Intimacy is steady.
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:It's consistent.
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:It, it's safe, it's quiet, it's calm.
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:Intimacy is, is actually the
exact opposite of intensity.
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:So if you're wondering,
well, what's the difference?
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:Look how fast you're going.
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:Look how fast this move look, it's always
a thrill chasing kind of thrill seeking.
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:Robrenna: Yes,
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:Leontyne: dopamine seeking, right.
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:That's not intimacy.
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:Mm-hmm.
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:Robrenna: Yes.
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:Leontyne: Intimacy is calmer and slower.
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:So, um, just learning
to ask, do I feel safe?
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:Am I rushing?
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:Am I, am I, am I seeking something?
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:Am I, am I dopamine
seeking or can I relax?
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:Can I just sit in your presence,
sit in this, in this moment without
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:feeling like we have to do something.
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:We have to be like, that's the
difference for me is just slow versus.
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:The thrill.
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:Right.
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:The thrill of the case.
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:Robrenna: Yeah.
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:That kind of goes with the last
two questions that we answer.
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:So the one about sensuality,
which is within the presence.
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:Leontyne: Mm-hmm.
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:Robrenna: And it can be with
anything, like you said, you
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:slow down and savor your food.
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:And then when we talked about
the trauma bond, this mm-hmm.
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:The seeking of that hit.
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:Yeah.
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:And so that intimacy and that intensity
that goes right along with that.
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:Leontyne: Yeah.
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:Robrenna: Yeah.
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:So,
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:Leontyne: and think about anything
else that we do fast, right?
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:Even like you just said about eating.
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:Robrenna: Mm-hmm.
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:Leontyne: You eat too fast, you choke.
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:Robrenna: Mm.
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:Leontyne: That's what happens, right?
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:You drive too fast, you
crash, and the faster you're
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:going, the worse the crash is.
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:Like anything that's too fast and
too intense isn't gonna end well.
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:Robrenna: Mm.
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:I love that.
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:Okay, so.
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:Uh, how do you help women different
differentiate between sensual desire
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:and trauma reenactment, especially
when their bodies have learned to
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:associate that intensity with connection?
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:And then how does this confusion
impact sensual healing?
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:Leontyne: So I like to help
women ask the why, like.
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:Figure out the why behind the
attraction and the attachment.
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:Like, are you drawn to someone because
they make you feel alive, they make
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:you feel awake, they, they make
you feel that excitement and that
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:thrill like we just talked about.
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:Robrenna: Mm-hmm.
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:Leontyne: Or is it
because they feel a void?
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:They remind you of something?
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:Um, a lot of those empty spaces
we have and so we naturally attach
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:trying to feel in those, those spaces.
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:That's a part of therapy that
people skip the, the processing.
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:Like when I say process, I don't
mean just think about this on repeat.
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:Right.
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:Until you're tired of thinking about it.
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:Yeah.
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:Robrenna: That's rumination when
I trying to tell you to ruminate,
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:Leontyne: right.
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:Processing means sitting down and figuring
out the who, what, when, where, and why.
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:When was the last time I felt like this?
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:How did that end up?
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:How did that make me
feel when that happened?
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:Mm.
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:Why am I feeling this way?
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:What is like actually
answering those questions?
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:Robrenna: Yes.
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:Leontyne: And when we don't take that
time and it's just, oh, they smell good.
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:Like, like dog and heat, like just, you
just sniff something out and you, you
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:feel that attraction and you just wanna
hump, like, just, just wait, sit down.
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:Robrenna: Oh my goodness.
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:Okay.
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:So I, I wanna talk about narcissistic
dynamics, um, because a narcissistic.
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:Narcissistic relationships, as we pointed
out earlier, that sex can, it can serve as
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:a way to bond, to control, to manipulate.
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:Also, on the flip side though, uh, it
can also be used as a form of punishment
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:through withholding affection or intimacy.
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:So how does.
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:This impact a woman's body image,
self-worth, and their sensual confidence.
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:And then what are the effects on
her relationship with her own desire
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:having to endure or having had to
endure that type of relationship.
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:Leontyne: So this breaks my heart.
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:It makes me sad.
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:Yeah, it makes me sad because
narcissistic dynamics teach women
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:that their bodies are tools.
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:Robrenna: Mm.
298
:Leontyne: Um, either to bring
them pleasure or to be used or to
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:be punished like you are a tool.
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:Your, your vagina is a tool.
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:You don't own it.
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:It is it, here's the purpose of it, right?
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:So when affection is weaponized or
withheld, it creates insecurities, it
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:creates, it rewires the nervous system.
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:It, it changes the way that you
internalize pleasure, right?
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:Um.
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:They just start, they, when
you see a woman who be, who
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:has sex with multiple people.
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:Right.
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:And it's not, uh, it's not for her.
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:It's, it's, well, they love, they said
they love me, and then I had sex with
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:him, but then they left me, and then
he came along and said I was beautiful.
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:So I had sex with him.
314
:Mm-hmm.
315
:And so then like, and we just keep this
cycle because our sexuality and our
316
:bodies are now attached to our value.
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:Robrenna: Mm-hmm.
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:Leontyne: And if I don't have sex
with you, you don't see value in me.
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:Robrenna: Mm-hmm.
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:Leontyne: And that's what we internalize.
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:So they question everything.
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:They question their attractiveness.
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:They, they question their intuition.
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:They don't even trust themselves.
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:Robrenna: Exactly.
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:Leontyne: They don't trust their
own needs or, or, or trust what
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:even makes them happy anymore.
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:Robrenna: Right.
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:Leontyne: It's what you tell me.
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:Robrenna: Mm-hmm.
331
:Leontyne: It's what,
what, what the world says.
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:What, what, whoever I'm with says,
and it, it, it, it basically destroys.
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:Their essential and sexual confidence.
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:Robrenna: Mm-hmm.
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:Leontyne: So then they don't
even trust their own bodies.
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:They don't trust how
their body is responding.
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:They don't trust that,
that gut instincts anymore.
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:Robrenna: Yeah.
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:Leontyne: They basically are now
conforming to whoever they are
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:with, they become a chameleon.
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:Robrenna: Mm-hmm.
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:Yeah.
343
:Also, I find it to be, especially if they
have, if punishment through withholding.
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:Then there's a lot of, I am not desirable.
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:Like, you don't even believe
that you are desirable.
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:And so then that can lead to, uh,
'cause there's something called, uh,
347
:sexual, an anorexia where you just
like, I'm just not going to even
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:Leontyne: Yeah.
349
:Robrenna: You like even
participate at all.
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:Yeah.
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:And so, well
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:Leontyne: we just, we know
that women are, are head down.
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:And men are, are down up.
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:So we, we, we have to be mentally,
emotionally, in a good place to
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:even understand desire, feel,
desire, all of those things.
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:And so when you have been sexually abused
mentally, I know that's, that's the lot
357
:right there, but sexually abused mentally.
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:Robrenna: Mm-hmm.
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:Leontyne: Um, desire goes away.
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:And I will have people that go to
the doctor and trying to get their
361
:hormones and stuff checked and trying
to take more B12 and all of that.
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:And it has nothing, it's nothing
wrong with you medically.
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:Robrenna: Mm-hmm.
364
:Leontyne: It's mentally, this has
the connect for her to connect.
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:Robrenna: Mm-hmm.
366
:Mm-hmm.
367
:Leontyne: So,
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:Robrenna: yeah.
369
:Okay.
370
:So for women who've experienced, um.
371
:Coercion and manipulation or trauma
in past relationships, how does
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:purity culture, the framework, make
it even harder for them to name
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:their experience as non-consensual,
which I just want to put out there.
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:You can be in a marriage
and have non-consensual sex.
375
:I just wanna put that out there.
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:That is a marriage, a relationship.
377
:It's a real thing.
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:Yes, it's a real thing.
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:Leontyne: Absolutely.
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:Um.
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:This is another thing that makes
me sad because purity culture
382
:teaches us that good women don't
get in situations like that.
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:Robrenna: Mm-hmm.
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:Leontyne: It places the responsibility
on them to prevent harm instead of
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:the person that committed the harm.
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:Robrenna: Yes.
387
:Leontyne: Like, um, when coercion happens,
women blame themselves because they
388
:were taught to see pressure manipulation
or emotional force as violations.
389
:They weren't taught, um.
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:So then they internalized the shame.
391
:They minimized the pain because
they were told Consent is
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:only about saying yes or no.
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:Robrenna: Mm-hmm.
394
:Leontyne: Not about the
power or fear or survival.
395
:A lot of times when we are in
these situations, we are silenced.
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:We lose our, we physically lose our voice.
397
:Robrenna: Yes.
398
:Leontyne: We cannot say, but that doesn't
mean that they wanted it, they, that
399
:doesn't mean that they enjoyed it or
that they, um, that they didn't fight it.
400
:It just.
401
:Well, they fawn
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:Robrenna: or froze.
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:Leontyne: They froze.
404
:Yeah.
405
:There's a psychological
freeze that's happening.
406
:Mm-hmm.
407
:But because you did not fight, because
you did not scream and yell because
408
:somebody didn't come get you and
put you in the back of a white van,
409
:it it, it wasn't, it wasn't that.
410
:Right.
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:Robrenna: Mm-hmm.
412
:Leontyne: Mm-hmm.
413
:But if you prayed enough, if you,
if you didn't wear that, if you
414
:carried yourself as a better woman
and, and, and all of those things,
415
:then these things wouldn't happen.
416
:Mm-hmm.
417
:That's a load of crap.
418
:Once again, it just victimizes us.
419
:The, the, yeah.
420
:The people and that people who are
being harmed instead of looking at the
421
:perpetrator who has caused the harm.
422
:Robrenna: Yes.
423
:And also I wanna say that, um, it could
be a nice guy that you're on a date with.
424
:Mm-hmm.
425
:Like, it doesn't have to be in a forceful.
426
:Coercion is not necessarily forceful.
427
:It can be very usually subtle, right?
428
:It can be very subtle, it can
be guilt, guilting, shaming.
429
:Um, and I know I, in my generation, we
didn't talk about consent a lot like.
430
:We do now.
431
:Leontyne: Yeah.
432
:Robrenna: And a lot of times there
was a, a thought of, well, if they're
433
:already in the process, I just gotta let
it happen whether I wanted to or not.
434
:Or if I said yes
435
:Leontyne: yesterday, if
I said yes last time.
436
:Robrenna: Yes, yes.
437
:And so I'm so glad that people are
talking about it more now and, and
438
:letting young women know that anytime,
439
:Leontyne: yeah.
440
:Robrenna: You are feeling a no, it's a no.
441
:Leontyne: It's a no.
442
:Robrenna: Yeah.
443
:Leontyne: And it's not, and
honestly, it's not just women.
444
:I, I wanna be, be clear
that, thank you anyone.
445
:Yes.
446
:I'm glad you said that.
447
:Um, this type of coercion or, um,
sexual assault, it, women are talked
448
:about less, but women do abuse
449
:Robrenna: Oh yeah.
450
:Leontyne: On a high
level, just like men do.
451
:So thank you for that.
452
:Those identify as women or men,
whatever, whatever, whatever.
453
:We can go on and on about that.
454
:But yes.
455
:Um.
456
:Men are victimized too.
457
:And once again, because you didn't fight
off or say no, or scream or whatever.
458
:I feel like with men, it it, even if
you did say no, it doesn't matter.
459
:Robrenna: They can freeze too.
460
:I mean, this isn't, the freezing
is, is a trauma response,
461
:so anybody can go into that.
462
:Leontyne: Just, just
because your body reacts
463
:Robrenna: mm-hmm.
464
:Leontyne: Does not mean that you.
465
:Have to go through with
a sexual encounter.
466
:Robrenna: Right, right.
467
:I know we talked about, um, like
when women feel guilty or people
468
:we're gonna say people feel guilty
or ashamed for freezing or complying
469
:or staying silent, which are all
typical, uh, trauma responses.
470
:Um, or responses in these
types of situations.
471
:How can you support women who struggle to
feel safe or comfortable in their bodies?
472
:Leontyne: Yeah.
473
:Um, first, just reminding them that
these responses are not choices.
474
:Just like we just talked about.
475
:There may be an erection.
476
:That doesn't mean that
that was your choice.
477
:There may be other stimulation.
478
:That doesn't mean it was a choice.
479
:It's survival mechanism,
but also it's biology.
480
:It, it's how your body is trained to work,
but the body also freezes to protect you.
481
:The body is smart guy.
482
:Yeah, like the body is smart.
483
:The body does things.
484
:We think that we control our body.
485
:Our body controls us.
486
:We like our body is going to do things
rather we want it to or not, because
487
:that's how the nervous system works.
488
:So the body freezes to protect you.
489
:It says, Rowina, you've been here before.
490
:This doesn't feel safe for you.
491
:Robrenna: Right.
492
:Leontyne: This is, this is how
we're protecting you right now.
493
:Robrenna: Right.
494
:Leontyne: But also, compliance
is a trauma response.
495
:Mm-hmm.
496
:It's not consent.
497
:Compliance is not consent.
498
:Can we put that, I'm gonna
put that on my next shirt.
499
:Right.
500
:Compliance is not consent.
501
:Mm-hmm.
502
:Um, silence is often the safest
option when in a dangerous moment
503
:when we talk about survivors
leaving an abusive situation.
504
:Leaving is the most dangerous time.
505
:Robrenna: Exactly.
506
:Leontyne: When I, I think it was like
73% of victims of domestic violence.
507
:They, they die trying to
leave or after they have left.
508
:Mm-hmm.
509
:It, it, it wasn't during.
510
:Mm-hmm.
511
:So that silence is the safest option
to not make something more dangerous.
512
:Right.
513
:When women understand that their
reactions were adaptive and not shameful.
514
:They begin to release the guilt
that they've been carrying.
515
:Robrenna: Mm-hmm.
516
:Um,
517
:Leontyne: my role is to help them just
create the safety in their bodies again.
518
:Mm-hmm.
519
:So that they respond
differently in the future.
520
:We have to rewire the nervous system
521
:Robrenna: Yes.
522
:Leontyne: So that it
can respond differently.
523
:Robrenna: Yes.
524
:That's it right there.
525
:The re pattering and the rewiring,
uh, of the nervous system.
526
:Leontyne: Yes.
527
:Robrenna: Okay.
528
:So how do you help clients rebuild
trust in their bodies when purity
529
:culture messages have contributed
to the disconnection or fear?
530
:And what do you see clinically
when women have internalized these
531
:messages that their bodies are.
532
:Their bo, their bodies or their desire
are dangerous, sinful, or untrustworthy.
533
:Leontyne: Our bodies are sacred and
beautiful, but we start with just a little
534
:gentle curiosity instead of judgment.
535
:I create safe spaces where you
can ask questions and we can be
536
:curious and we can try new things.
537
:Teach you how to try new things
and explore your body in a way
538
:that doesn't feel shameful.
539
:Mm.
540
:I help them explore sensations,
their desires and boundaries.
541
:Right?
542
:Mm.
543
:Um, boundaries from a, from a
place of permission, you, you have
544
:permission to set a boundary sexually.
545
:Mm-hmm.
546
:Robrenna: You
547
:Leontyne: don't have
to, even during mm-hmm.
548
:I teach women how to communicate
effectively during sex.
549
:Robrenna: Mm-hmm.
550
:Leontyne: You actually can
say, no, I don't like that.
551
:Uh, Nope.
552
:You, that wasn't great for me.
553
:Mm-hmm.
554
:But there's so much shame that
they feel that they're projecting
555
:onto the other person, that it's
hard to, to vocalize those things.
556
:So I teach them how to do that in
a safe way, that it is more sensual
557
:versus judgment or, or shamefulness.
558
:Um, but clinically I see a lot of fear in
suppression and, and, and disconnecting
559
:women raised with purity messaging.
560
:Uh, so rebuilding trust just
looks like learning to feel
561
:without fear and without shame.
562
:Robrenna: Yeah, I appreciate that.
563
:Also what you said when we first started,
like understanding the, your sensations.
564
:Uh, I know I lived in dissociation.
565
:I think I was 55 when I
realized, oh, I don't girl you in
566
:Leontyne: 55 now.
567
:What you talking about?
568
:Robrenna: I'm 58.
569
:Leontyne: Get outta here.
570
:Robrenna: But yeah, I remember, I remember
thinking, wow, I don't know how to feel.
571
:Like, like, I don't know what this
feels like, like, I don't know what
572
:sense heaviness in my chest feels like.
573
:I know I have, like I know when I
was anxious, but I couldn't describe
574
:sensations to you, so I couldn't
say, my heart's beating fast.
575
:Like my head is hot.
576
:Like I couldn't, I couldn't describe it.
577
:Um, and that's part of that.
578
:Having to dissociate outside of yourself
like you can't feel because if you
579
:do, you're so overwhelmed you can't
go back into your window of tolerance.
580
:And I didn't know then.
581
:I didn't know how to regulate myself.
582
:I didn't know how to breathe.
583
:I didn't know how to talk
myself like through a situation.
584
:So I just.
585
:Shut off the feelings.
586
:I just turned off that water, turned
off that faucet, nothing's coming out.
587
:I feel nothing.
588
:And so I had to learn.
589
:Um, and that's when I started taking
all those, I started taking classes
590
:on nervous system regulation, how to
feel your body sensations, how to name
591
:them, how to even envision them in
colors and textures and, and so, yeah,
592
:and I'm sure I'm not the only person.
593
:Like that, that I don't even, I
can't even tell you what I'm feeling.
594
:Leontyne: Absolutely.
595
:That's a common response after
you've experienced trauma.
596
:Robrenna: Mm-hmm.
597
:Leontyne: You don't know.
598
:But when I will say, even without
trauma, we don't, a lot of us don't have
599
:these conversations, and so we don't
know what it's supposed to feel like.
600
:Right.
601
:We don't know what's supposed to happen.
602
:We are just here.
603
:You just, you've had sex for the first
time, or you're in this relationship
604
:for the first time and it's just like.
605
:Okay.
606
:Like, what do we do?
607
:Because we don't talk about these things.
608
:It's, mm-hmm.
609
:Like I said, it's so taboo that we,
we silence the conversation and just
610
:let people figure it out on their own,
and they often figure it out wrong.
611
:Robrenna: Right.
612
:And, and a lot of times in a harmful way.
613
:Yeah.
614
:In a
615
:Leontyne: very harmful way.
616
:Yes.
617
:Robrenna: Mm-hmm.
618
:So what does reclaiming sexuality
look like for someone who was taught
619
:that pleasure should be minimized,
avoided, tightly controlled, and how can
620
:women better understand their bodies?
621
:Yes and no when it comes to intimacy.
622
:And you, you alluded to that a
little bit when you were talking
623
:about setting the boundaries.
624
:Leontyne: Yeah.
625
:So reclaiming sensuality looks like
giving yourself full permission.
626
:It.
627
:We we're back to that.
628
:Giving yourself permission to
experience pleasure in even small,
629
:steady ways throughout normal days.
630
:It goes back to sensuality
versus sexuality, right?
631
:Robrenna: Mm-hmm.
632
:Leontyne: Um, I teach people that
intimacy is a all day long experience.
633
:It's not just in the bedroom.
634
:Intimacy is small conversations.
635
:It, it's sending cute pictures.
636
:It's, it's all kind of things.
637
:And sensuality is the same
way, like we talked about
638
:with food and everyday things.
639
:Sensuality is not sexuality.
640
:It, it does not have to be
experienced at the same time.
641
:Sensuality a warm shower.
642
:Taking a warm shower and just
feeling the warm water on your body,
643
:feeling the towel, the, the texture
of the towel against your skin,
644
:closing your eyes, taking a deep
breath that you can actually feel
645
:Robrenna: mm-hmm.
646
:Leontyne: Giving yourself permission to
feel slowly and steady and in your time.
647
:What feels good to you, what
doesn't feel good to you, and,
648
:and naming that, what's too rough?
649
:What's too soft?
650
:Mm-hmm.
651
:Um.
652
:Listening to music and allowing your
body to just move flow with the beat.
653
:It's learning the
difference between your Yes.
654
:Your no, and not yet.
655
:I'm not ready to move on from this yet.
656
:Robrenna: Mm-hmm.
657
:Leontyne: I, I need a few more minutes
in the shower and being okay with not
658
:rushing your body to feel, So just
allowing your body to feel what it needs
659
:to feel, move, how it needs to move, and
giving your permission to not rush it.
660
:Robrenna: Mm-hmm.
661
:Leontyne: Mm-hmm.
662
:Um, even side, like even with
orgasms, people rush them.
663
:Like, I just want to
get to get to the thing.
664
:Slow down, breathe, take in the moment.
665
:Um, over time, that
builds confidence, right?
666
:And, and safety and ownership.
667
:Robrenna: So why is it important to
experience the body with compassion
668
:and presence for, uh, healing
and faith-based sexual shame?
669
:And how can women handle the shame
or fear when they embrace pleasure?
670
:Leontyne: Let me, let me watch my words.
671
:Maybe that's why I'm getting scrambled.
672
:So it's important because shame
disconnects you from your body.
673
:Robrenna: Hmm.
674
:Leontyne: Um, compassion.
675
:So shame disconnects you.
676
:Compassion reconnects you.
677
:Robrenna: Mm.
678
:Leontyne: You have to be
compassionate with yourself.
679
:Presence allows you to experience your
body without judgment, and I'm gonna
680
:say that over and over and over again.
681
:Giving yourself permission to
experience your body without judgment
682
:from others, but more importantly,
not judgment from yourself.
683
:Mm-hmm.
684
:Being okay with touching
yourself, with feeling yourself,
685
:with connecting with yourself.
686
:Mm-hmm.
687
:When women learn to sit with themselves,
it, it interrupts the shame narrative
688
:that they've created in their head or
that, um, abuse and trauma has created.
689
:And then we can create a new
narrative that is rooted in
690
:worthiness and value and healing.
691
:And that just takes compassion.
692
:Mm-hmm.
693
:And slow and steady.
694
:Consistent love, self love
to create a new self worth.
695
:Um, so just being present presence
allows you to see your body as God
696
:created it, not as man desires it.
697
:Mm.
698
:Robrenna: Yeah.
699
:One of the things that I realize
when I'm working with clients
700
:sometimes, and I'll ask them to self.
701
:Soothe by like, uh, embracing
their arms, like putting your
702
:arms around yourself, like a hug.
703
:Mm-hmm.
704
:And then just to, you know, um,
smooth soothe yourself, like
705
:when your hands, hands up and
down and some people can't do it.
706
:They're say, Ooh, that I don't like that.
707
:That feels icky.
708
:That's what some people will say.
709
:I don't, you know, I'm like,
okay, that's not comfortable for
710
:you then, you know, don't do it.
711
:But to me, I do.
712
:That's, uh, that, that
says something to me.
713
:The fact that this says a lot can't.
714
:Yes.
715
:Yeah.
716
:Leontyne: It says a lot.
717
:I do a lot of mirror work.
718
:Robrenna: Mm-hmm.
719
:Leontyne: And the amount of people who
can't look themselves in their eyes.
720
:Robrenna: Mm.
721
:Leontyne: When you look in the
mirror, you see your imperfections.
722
:You see what you need to fix,
you need, you see what you have
723
:to do to get through the day.
724
:Mm-hmm.
725
:But you can't look at yourself.
726
:You can't look at your, look
through your eyes and see your soul.
727
:Mm-hmm.
728
:You can't connect with yourself.
729
:I have people look in the
mirror and they just cry.
730
:Robrenna: Mm.
731
:Leontyne: They are so
disconnected with the person in
732
:the mirror that they just cry.
733
:Robrenna: Hmm.
734
:Leontyne: I tell them, until you can
become truly naked with yourself and have
735
:that level of intimacy with yourself,
you should not be doing it with others.
736
:Robrenna: Mm, mm-hmm.
737
:Leontyne: Yeah.
738
:Connect
739
:Robrenna: with
740
:Leontyne: you first.
741
:Connection and compassion
with yourself first.
742
:Robrenna: I agree.
743
:All that compassion you wanna pour out
to someone else, poured onto yourself.
744
:Leontyne: Absolutely.
745
:Robrenna: I, I did do a, an
episode about self intimacy and
746
:it had nothing to do with sex.
747
:It had to do with your inner world
and connecting within yourself.
748
:Leontyne: Yes.
749
:Robrenna: And providing yourself
all that love that you're
750
:looking for on the outside.
751
:Give it to yourself.
752
:Absolutely.
753
:Um, and so I, I totally,
totally, uh, agree with that.
754
:So what does, uh, claiming
sensuality look beyond sexuality,
755
:which we did hit on this a bit.
756
:One of the things you were talking
about is when you take a shower.
757
:Uh, savor your food.
758
:Um, there's something that I, and I
went through a self-compassion course.
759
:I'm gonna go to part two, but they
have you, when you make your coffee,
760
:like the mindfulness part of it, you
know, you really pay attention to
761
:how you're putting the grounds in.
762
:I was like, wow.
763
:I mean, it takes a long time to
make your coffee when you pay
764
:attention to every little thing.
765
:So what's your take on that?
766
:Well,
767
:Leontyne: I feel like that's the problem.
768
:We rush everything.
769
:Robrenna: Mm-hmm.
770
:Leontyne: But when you just slow the heck
down, everything is a central experience.
771
:Robrenna: Mm.
772
:Leontyne: Everything makes you
feel so like you're making that
773
:coffee, but you take those deep
breaths and you're actually.
774
:Inhaling the aroma.
775
:Robrenna: Mm-hmm.
776
:Leontyne: And what that does to the
brain and what that does to your body.
777
:How does that make you feel?
778
:What is happening inside of you?
779
:Are the hairs sticking up or
are, are the little bumps coming?
780
:Like what, what does your body
actually feel learning how to
781
:separate emotions from feelings?
782
:Robrenna: Mm-hmm.
783
:Leontyne: When I tell people, be okay
with feeling, I'm not talking about
784
:be okay with being sad, happy, or mad.
785
:I'm saying be in tuned with
what you feel, what your body
786
:naturally does in those situations.
787
:Mm-hmm.
788
:So, yes.
789
:When you're in the shower, take your time.
790
:Just take two seconds, five seconds,
and just let the water touch your
791
:body and tell me how it feels.
792
:Robrenna: Mm-hmm.
793
:Mm-hmm.
794
:Leontyne: Not what emotion it
triggers, but what it feels like.
795
:Robrenna: Right.
796
:Leontyne: That's what
reclaiming sensuality is about.
797
:It's, it's what feels good
emotionally, spiritually, mentally.
798
:It's creatively resting and
being in softness and, and, and
799
:movement and laughter and joy.
800
:It, it sensuality becomes a
way of relating to yourself
801
:and relating to the world.
802
:It has nothing to do
with sex or anybody else.
803
:Sensuality is within you.
804
:Robrenna: Mm, I like that.
805
:So how can women begin
to see their bodies as.
806
:Not as obstacles to holiness, but
as sacred, wise, and worthy of care.
807
:Leontyne: I think
808
:people, I I, I'm trying to stop saying
Women, uh, people have to understand
809
:that embodiment is spiritual, okay?
810
:The body is not separate from holiness.
811
:Your body is a part of creation.
812
:You can honor God and honor
your body at the same time.
813
:Robrenna: Mm-hmm.
814
:Leontyne: When women treat their, when
people treat their bodies with care,
815
:resting, feeding it, touching it,
listening to it, they begin to see the
816
:sacredness that that is inside of you.
817
:All along.
818
:God created all things He created
us and I, I, I, you know, I, I like
819
:to think I'm real close with him.
820
:I like to think we here.
821
:Mm-hmm.
822
:And I just don't believe that he created
any of us to feel shame, pain, or
823
:embarrassment with something he made.
824
:Robrenna: Mm.
825
:Leontyne: This is of him.
826
:Robrenna: Mm-hmm.
827
:Leontyne: And because it's of him,
it's something I should be proud of.
828
:It's something I should enjoy.
829
:Robrenna: Mm-hmm.
830
:Leontyne: Don't, aren't we supposed
to enjoy all of God's gifts?
831
:Robrenna: Mm-hmm.
832
:Leontyne: This is God's gift, baby.
833
:And I will enjoy it.
834
:Robrenna: Mm-hmm.
835
:So what does gentle return to your body?
836
:What does that mean to you?
837
:Leontyne: When I read that question,
I, I had to sit and think about that.
838
:Like, what does that mean?
839
:And I think it's an
invitation to come home.
840
:Robrenna: Mm-hmm.
841
:Come
842
:Leontyne: home to yourself.
843
:It's a slow process of noticing what
your body needs and what, what is
844
:holding inside the, the, the trauma
that is embedded in your nervous system.
845
:Robrenna: Hmm.
846
:Leontyne: What it's
craving, what does it need?
847
:Is it, is it dopamine seeking?
848
:Is it oxytocin seeking?
849
:Like, what, what does it need?
850
:And giving your, giving your body
a, a permission to speak for you.
851
:Mm.
852
:Speak to you.
853
:Right.
854
:And then you giving yourself permission to
listen to it, not listening to the world.
855
:And we, we gotta work,
work, work, work, work.
856
:We gotta do, do, do, do, do.
857
:We gotta be married, we gotta have kids.
858
:We gotta, we gotta, we gotta, we gotta
make the money, we gotta do the thing.
859
:But like, what does your body say?
860
:And giving yourself
permission to listen to that.
861
:So a gentle return home safety softness,
being present with yourself, meeting
862
:yourself, doing that mirror work,
looking at yourself, figuring out who the
863
:heck that person is on the other side.
864
:Robrenna: Yep.
865
:Leontyne: Just allowing yourself to
heal and allowing yourself to feel.
866
:Robrenna: Mm-hmm.
867
:Leontyne: Because, no, no.
868
:No, no regrets, no inhibitions.
869
:Just if I need to cry, I need to cry.
870
:Robrenna: Right.
871
:Leontyne: If I need to
dance, I need to dance.
872
:Mm-hmm.
873
:It's, it's okay.
874
:So yeah, it's just, uh,
it is an invitation home.
875
:Yeah.
876
:And your body should feel like home.
877
:Robrenna: Yeah.
878
:I like that.
879
:Well, uh, teen, how can our audience,
how can they connect with you?
880
:Leontyne: Uh, so, uh, my, my daughter
says I'm old and I don't have,
881
:uh, I don't use Instagram a lot.
882
:I don't use TikTok as much as I should.
883
:I do.
884
:I am on TikTok, the
relationship saver on TikTok.
885
:I just should post more.
886
:Um, and then our website is the rc.com,
887
:the relationship corner.com.
888
:Um, follow me on Facebook.
889
:Any on, um, just my name, teen Evans.
890
:Nothing special.
891
:Um, and I'm always an email or call
away and all of my information is on
892
:my social media platform, so, okay.
893
:Robrenna: I will put that
information in the show notes.
894
:Leontyne: Yes.
895
:Robrenna: And I wanna thank you, teen
for this honest and needed conversation.
896
:I appreciate it.
897
:Thank
898
:Leontyne: you.
899
:I'm so glad you had me.
900
:I'm so glad I connected with you.
901
:Thank you so much.
902
:Robrenna: Yeah.
903
:Well, to everyone listening
your body is not a battlefield.
904
:It's your home, as team said,
and you deserve to feel safe,
905
:free, and whole within it again.
906
:You can find information about
today's guest in the show notes.
907
:If something you heard today
stirred recognition or softened
908
:something within you, allow yourself
a moment to pause and breathe.
909
:Reclaiming her resilience is executive
produced and edited by me or Brina Parker.
910
:If this podcast encourages
you, I invite you to follow,
911
:subscribe, or leave a review.
912
:This podcast is published by RHR Media Co.
913
:Where voice is honored
and the story unfolds.
914
:RHR Media Co is the publishing and media
arm of reclaiming her resilience, LLC,
915
:creating story centered media that honors
voice restores agency, and invites women
916
:back into authorship of their own lives.
917
:Your story matters and you're not alone,
and it deserves to be held with care,
918
:consent, and choice until we meet again.
919
:Take gentle care.