In this episode, I sit down with Prabhjot Singh - President and CEO of Pyze to discuss how the importance of having mentors in your journey, how to transition, the reality of entrepreneurship.

He shared how he took time off from his marketing job to create a non-profit to fight hate crimes post 9/11. He learned how to start a venture from the ground up and he used this experience to create multiple startups.

He talks about smart money and not-so-smart money in terms of raising capital for startups.

About Prabhjot:

Prabhjot Singh is a serial entrepreneur who has started multiple for-profit, social enterprise, and non-profit ventures. He serves as President and CEO of Pyze, the most recent company he founded to enable the world's largest enterprises to improve business operations utilizing AI-driven Process Intelligence and Analytics. He has over 20 years of experience in sales, marketing, and product management. He previously co-founded Pixatel Systems, a social enterprise that utilizes mobile computing to deploy apps and e-Learning solutions to millions of users.

Prabhjot served as VP Marketing at CA Technologies for the Application Performance Management (APM) business, where he was responsible for all marketing functions and helped execute the go-to-market strategy that grew the APM business over 300% in 4 years. Before CA, he was an early employee at Wily Technology and served in a number of key customer-facing and marketing roles. Wily was acquired by CA Technologies in 2006. Prior to Wily, Prabhjot held management and engineering positions at Citigroup and Indus River Networks. Prabhjot holds a Bachelor in Computer Systems Engineering from Boston University.

Prabhjot is an active participant in the community and philanthropic affairs. He was the Founding Chairman of the Sikh Coalition, the nation’s largest Sikh Civil Rights organization. Prabhjot is also a founder of Saanjh, a non-profit that runs leadership programs for children and young adults. He currently volunteers on the Boards of the Sikh Coalition, Saanjh, and the MBSK Family Foundation.

Connecting with Prabhjot:

Website: https://www.pyze.com

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/psinghsf/

Connect with Manpreet:

LinkedIn

Instagram

Right,

One more episode. I am so excited about this one time, because this is

by far the one that I weed most is with none other than my friend, my

brother, pro Jo, and we have

known each other for so long, and I haveve seen him

turn from Uh, you know, a social activist into a brilliant entrepreneur and

he was before that also, but in my eyes

I look up to him for a lot of things when I need a wisdom, whether

seiritual, whether his business

wheth, you know something to do with social activism. I'll look up to this

man and I'm so happy to have him on the show

and shareed it with you guys. So propt welcom and thank you for coming.

Yeah, no, thank you for having me, brother. This is looking forward to this.

The spotcast.

All right Good, so we'll get right into it because Prob Jooth has a lot of

busy schedule. Ahe, so let's get started with. Uh, You know you sharing

about your journey. How you startar are from somebody who started as as

everybody does from the normal employee, and then transing intone journey.

Yeah, well, I, I think it's it's It's been a life longng journey for me like

I've always, I think been a generalist. Uh, which means that I'm not really

good at any one thing, but

but I know I, I sort of a jack of all trades and men, regards, which, which

is a skill set you really need to have as an entrepreneur because in the

morning you could be negotiating your large contracts with someone in

procurement, and in the afternoon you might be taking out the garbage right,

so you, you've got be able to span the gambit and for me, the journey kind

of started. Uh, shortly after college. I you know, out of out out of college

I, uh, went to Boston University. did Uh, a degree in computer systems

engineering, and out of college I joined Citigroup They, they had this

Management Associate program which Uh, John Reed, who was C. O, at that time

of Citigroup, had come out of that program. So it was a pretty prestigious,

um, well regarded, well funded program where they took people

Uh, for nine months at a time, and rodatee into different parts of the mo,

and gave us lots and lots of training of how the banking world works. Uh,

They taught us a lot of the soft skills that you need to kind of be

successful, and then the ideas. you do this for two or three years, and then

you come out as a a you know management position in the bank, So that it it

was fun. I really enjoyed it and I did it for about nine months because

You know

it it felt like Uh, the pace was really slow. Um. and at that time there was

a company out in California. Uh, that had just raised their Uh funding

round. And you know they were kind of pre revenue. It was Uh. It was about

fifteen people and they didn't have anyone on the East coast. I live in New

Jersey at that time, so uh, you know, recruiter contacted me, and as they

say, the rest of history, I'd never been to California if I flew out to the

Bay area. really fell in love with the team. Uh, and you know I, I got to

kind of see the journey from fifteen people to about two hundred fifty

people, and you know, being kind of almost pre revenue to sixty million

dollars, you know in revenue,

one

And then you know it was A. and then we were acquird by a big company, Um.

And you know I, I got to have a role as sort of running marketing for. for.

uh, you know, computer as soociates for the team. So it that for me was

really a transformational experience Because I got to learn so much and you

know we did so many things right, and you a lot of things we didn't do so

right. Uh, but you know I learned from all of the

thatmazing, how was your transition? So you grew up. You mentioned in the

East Coast, right and then moving to Bay were their cultural differences

in terms of the work itself. I know I, when I move through U. S. I moved to

U. S. New Jersey and then I moved to Bay. I saw a lot of difference. How

was your experience

yeah, I. I didn't move to the bay.

Uh, you know, first

probablytil ten years after I joined that company. Uh, but I got to travel

the world. Uh, you know with wile, Um, And and for me that was great because

meeting customers, Uh, just to interacting with different kinds of people,

understanding sort of what what their issues were and how to solve those

issues was W was really a foundational experience for me. And and you know,

while I was on the East Coast, the the other, I think formative experience

from an entrepreneurial perspective was Um, was nine eleven right? So after

nine eleven,

Um, you know I, it. w. when we, there are both six. Uh, we followed the sick

faith and six were attacked right after Nine Eleven across the country and

we' been in. We'd been in the U S. for a hundred years, but people didn't

really understand who six were, And you know we we. We've faced hate crimes,

employment discrimination, all kinds of issues, and I actually took some

time off from Wli, Um, right after nine eleven and helped set up a a

organization called the Sick Coalition, right, which, Uh, which was really

my first start up in many ways right because Uh, he started, you know as a

raq, that group of volunteers and the coalition Today, you as a multi

millionion dollar non profit employees. Uh, you know, do dozens of people

and contractors, and you know has over the last twenty years, Because you

know we. It's been twenty years since Nine Eleven really worked to help

shape policy, defend the rights of of six and other minorities in the U. S.

and Y. You know, getting that going from an idea face to hiring the first

employees to really helping institutionalize that Really was, You know, an

entrepreneurial journey right, so I. I. I learned so much in that experience

that I brought with me to you know, my, my private sector entrepreneurship,

Ex exploits.

When Nine Eleven happened like I had. I just moved to us a month ago. So

then nine Eleven happened.

All the things that I had with

companies just embraced me with open arms, and I'm going to be one of those

engineers there a whole went.

It was interesting

change in the dynamics overnight. Like how people started to see you

because prior to nine eleven I didn't even know who La. was.

Little bit of track.

Its shifted very quickly like you were almost like a target Because of how

people were not aware of.

you know what different cultures we had if you wereurban were just a

target, So that was an interesting time. So,

Yeah, yeah, no, it was. it was a. It was in the same time because you know

you had middle people from Middle Eastern descent being targeted or six were

being targeted. You know, Latinos that look Middle Eastern for deartment, So

uh, it is very unfortunate, and uh, you know, and thankfully, we were able

to sort of mobilize a community

yeah,

right by coming back to sort of you know, entrepreneurship, and Y, you know

social ership. In this case, Um, the the building blocks are were very

similar, right and and we very much ran the coalition from the early days.

I. in A, in a results from a Reservn perspective where we had objectives. we

were making sure we were meeting objectives. You know, we had to fund raise,

just like you do in in the private sector, right, Um, And and of course

those funds get deployed differently and there's different measurements of

success,

but at a fundamental level it it was exactly the same.

yeah, it's amazing. and and just so for

knowledge of the audience, your background, like your

family, didn't come from business, or they like where they

know appearance for the

in the job market. Are you know ninety five or whether they have the

business experience?

Yeah, they. Well, I, I mean, I, I think, uh, entrepreneurship sort of runs

in the in in the blood and A, as does sort of displacement, right, my, uh,

my grandfather and grandmom uh, my, on my dad's side. Um,

you lived in Pakistan, right and during the partition they they you? that

left everything and walked across the border to To Punch, And my dad was

born on the border in September forty seven, Right, And and my your know

grandfather had to start all over again, Right. My my grandparents went

through similar displacement on my mom's side in terms of you know, having

to start all over again, Right and then after you know Nineteen Eighty Four,

and the you know taxs against six and India,

we, uh, we, we migrated to the U. S. Right, my parents did, and kind of

started all over again, right in it in a very similar fashion, And you know,

and my dad was, you know, was a successful entrepreneur. I, I've learned

learned so much in terms of you know, coming into a a new country where you

know he was forty years old when he uprooted his family and literally

started all over again. Right, and my mom and dad kind of did that. And and

I think you know, I and my siblings have always sort of

really appreciated them making that sacrifice right cause they did it for us

right. And and I think for me that that that sort of fuels my desire to also

sort of give back for the greater good.

I't know about

that. and just so interestingly. My father was two days old when my

grandfather

moved from Pakistan to India. time

somoving from your, you know transition from your background of marketing,

Yeah,

which is your foremos strength,

and I know you humbly, said your journalist. But thats your strength that

you took.

you know. I guess being peoples person, what were some of the things that

you were take away as a person who was in nine to five, were to transition

into entrepreneurship. That helped you, you know, become do things the way

you are doing Now

yeah, I mean I, so I think you have to become

in the early days, Uh, expert on in a lot of things right as you, as you as

you're sort of getting started. Um, you. Certainly you know Na, managing

people, and you know having that that experience of sort of, uh,

y, you're making sure that you can project management manage things and get

them from inception to to delivery. You know all those skills are necessary.

Um, when? When you, when you're just starting out, but you, there's a lot of

things that

Uh

y you, you may never have done before. Right, like fundraising. right, for

instance, fundraising, you know from

Vt, venture capital, you know, knocking on doors on Sandal Road, Right, that

in itself is a

Is Is is a skill in an art. Right That has to be. that has to be developed

over time. Um. And and it certainly was for me right to sort of start from

with Uh of repes. We started with angel investors in the early days, and

then you know we, we. We brought on kind institutional capital Um

with with V, Cs. and you know, and then that's the. the. you've got to sort

of learn also how leverage your investors so that they can help you beyond

just the capital Right Because

and that's where you know we. we. We talk about sort of smart money and not

so smart money Right because smart money can help open up doors. They've got

industry experience and then the. I think, The other critical thing about

investors is you know, I'd say

it. it's it's. It's a ten year journey, right that you're signing up when

you bring someone on your cap table, right as as a as an entrepreneur. So

you've got to make sure that you're aligned and you've got people who are

going to be with you for the long run, Uh, and and through the uh, ups and

downs, right, Because you've got good weather investors and you know not so

good. And and people who are you know there who really believe in what

you're doing and are going to be with you for Uh, for the long haul.

brilliant. So when somebody is Um, you know, soaring fresh

intoneur or somebody aspiring, how important it is to have

somebody or a mentor or an example

who has already walked like,

Do you see any importance all as it? Orid?

No, y, you know, like in general, like

with anything in life. Right, if you can learn from someone else's

experiences and their mistakes without having to repeat them yourself,

you're You're gonna be much better off. right and and and in sickey, right,

I mean, we, uh, we. we

believe in this idea of you know, the goodu, uh, you g. Good sick Yous

founded in I, you know the fifteenth century by Goodonic, uh, who' the first

to Goodo, And you know the Guoo is someone who takes you from darkness to

light,

Yeah, yes,

right, Uh that And and and the reason you follow someone?

Uh, And the path is because they've done it before, Right And and and they

can make sure you you can get there so from a mentorship perspective, or

having a coach, Um, I, I think it's really important whether you know it's

it's it's it's a friend. it's a. uh. it's an industry mentor. It's an

investor. It's really really important to have someone who's done these

types of things that you're gonna have to do, Uh, or someone on your team.

right that has that experience. So you know how do you negotiate aturnency,

right E, like all all of these things are Well, you know, If you, if you're

doing something for the first time and you've got someone across the table

who's done it

five hundred times. Well, you know you you. You're not going to be evenly

matched, so you definitely need someone on your corner who can help you That

that's just one example. but I think it applies to everything right hiring,

firing, uh, negotiating, uh, customer agreements right, making sure

customers are successful. Uh, get up

getting real estate.

It. Um, like all all these things are things that you have to do. Um, and in

the early days it's you as the entrepreneur who's gonna primarily be driving

all of them. So uh, you know, the, the the deeper the bench of people who

can support you, the more successful you're going to be.

H.

And as I think about Old thousand things as the early day in your

journey, you have to do it almost overwhelms you.

I need to do this, especially the things that you consider yourself not to

be good at, or things that you may have avoided for one reason or another,

So

what are some of the things you know? if somebody is thinking and is

getting overwhelmed,

Can do to sort of break down and come up with a plan that makes it

not easier, but a little bit simpler to execute.

Yeah, So

that's that's a good question. and it's it's always your situational right,

depending on kind of what your're what what you're against And and it's it's

a moving target right. So the things that you focus on in the first, you

know E, are going to be different than the first, the second and third and

fourth, right, E, and Um. So but in general y, you know in my mind Th, this

is a psychological game.

Yeah,

Right entrepreneurship is is completely psychological. It's in your head and

you can either sort of succumb to the challenges and you know when things go

sideways and you can you know like you, of course, want to be in a growing

f. uh, from to the to the ride into the top. But you know there's there's

lots of valleys and peaks that that happen along the way in reality right.

So when that's the situation,

you've got to really kind of take a step back, right and and and reevaluate

right. What? Oh, Why are you doing this right? What is? is the? What is the?

the core motivation that keeps you going Right That keeps me

Mhm,

going.

And if that's you know, and so once you are centered on that then I think

it's easier to sort of segment things out in terms of Okay. What are the

issues that we need to tackle now?

and you know? what are the resources that I have available that you know, we

we can deploy towards those

Mhm,

issues, Or what resources do I need? right? Uh, you know who? who do I know

who can help me with this particular problem, Right and I've I, and I've had

lots of times in the you know, in the early days, Um, when we're even

negotiating,

Uh, you know, a large, uh, business contract and I, you know I felt like.

Oh, I'm a little bit out of my depth here. so you know I'll I'll you know.

I'll call up friends and people who I've known that. Um, you know that are

good at that particular thing and you know I'll get advice and you know you

talk to three or four people. You can then have enough competence to

probably move the ball forward, right. Um, and eventually you hire for that

function right, like like Hi, hiring. In my mind,

you want to hire people who can do something

ten times better than you can,

Yes, yes,

right, And that's how I approach it right from A from the Sasor management

team. Where if if I have to hire someone then I have to coach them, and Y,

you know, help them grow.

You know that that's that's fine for junior employees and mid levelvel

managers. But if we're hiring someone on the exact team you for that

function, I'd expect them to be. You know ten te tenics better than me. Uh,

and that's hard. That's a high bar, but um y, you know, but thankfully

because I'm a general asist, not that high a bar from me.

yeah, yeah, no, there, there is so much golden right there, Like

fausting, you know, asking for help. That is great, then hiring To fill

the gaps that you have personally, you, knowing the people are more

capable, as amazing

A of people have seen Um in my career In companies that I worked with

customersership positions. People are now hiring people who are more

capable Because out of insecurity, and then you wonder that grows. Just get

stuck.

Think brid.

You have had you know,

have worked out different enterprises, or you know from social enterprise,

and you have,

And now it's

Pix.

pronouncing it properly. What are some of the things that are

different from your early days that you did that

you no longer there Wheth, you know, because of the times we are in Wheth,

you know the lessons you have learnt through your journey. What are some of

the things that are different today?

Yeah, I, you know, I think so what I've learned from

my experiences. Certainly with the early days of the coalition, Um, you, uh,

fixel, the social enterprise. I did um, right after I left computer

associates, but I've been very focused on ples and growing this business for

the couple years, and I think along this journey, the

the, The couple of lessons that I've I. I've actually taken away Is that

you've got to be really hands on to ensure success. It's not like as as

businesses grow people think. Oh, you can be more hands off.

You actually have to be more hands on and more involved in the details to

make sure that you're you, you. You're going to be successful and the people

that you're relying on are going to be successful. And and that relates to,

sort of,

I think now have the ability to hire better than I did. Um, right, uh, ten

years ago. Um. And and I think you know, and I've continued to Cting, get uh

good lessons. or you know, humbling lessons in that regard even now, right

because Th. there's always something to learn in terms of Uh, making the

right decisions. Because you're you don't have a lot of data. Try to

evaluate someone right. So, yeah, people are going to give you great

references, and of course they're going to tell you they can do what you

want them right. So, um, so being able to sort of parse that all of that

information and kind of a, and also ask the right questions

Yeah, yeah,

right, and and and then once they're on board, I think the one of the other

key lessons that I've

I've learned both for myself and for my teams, is

setting

really

crystal clear goals of what needs to be accomplished when right, because

we', and and you know we'reing a business which we're growing fast. Where

you know we're moving fast. we're breaking things. we' changing what the

goals need to be, And that's all well and good right. That's all well and

good. But you've got to kind of have an understanding of what those goals

are. Um, and make sure that everyone understands what we're driving towards.

And if and if those goals change, then you know, broadcast that loudly and

communicate that often. and to make sure that everyone's a aling about

what's the goal post and where we're heading.

I mean, it goes back to your earlier point about being clear with your why,

why you doing business and then being clear aboution but also as you prever

making it clear to your people, because otherwise they will get lost and

confus. So I have seen a lot of companies that do well and they are big and

they have seen the other side of whereun

happens by the means of somebody realising Okay, it has happened north by

actually. Com. So I think there' a brillt advice for any leader to make

sure their communication is

good and clear.

Do you see any difference between precoed and post cover in terms of the

business, the reality and how things are moving now?

Yeah, so for sure there's been

I. I. I think covet has changed the the business landscape

in in a number of significant ways right like I think, every every company

probably has been impacted and has to sort of rethink

what th what they do and the relevance of what they do to to today's

society. Uh, right because the office spaces have gone away. Uh, yeah,

companies are revaluing their business models and you know, for pies,

we, we help organizations optimize their business processes, right, we help

people baseline the effectiveness of their business processes. Whether you

know it's a it's. It's fraud detection or claim management, or uh. y, you

know uh, ▁quota cash right, whatever business process that a company is I is

implementing, we provide the ability to kind of measure that and then

improve that. Identify where there's inefficiencies where theirs sttching

points, as it relates to the process workflows, employees, and Y, You know

what we've seen with our customers Is they've? as they've had to kind of

um, rejuel their business process or introduce new capabilities. Um to to

their customers. They've They've all been sort of struggling with. Okay, how

do we ensure that we're delivering the maximum results possible to our

customers? And and that's and if someone isn't doing that today, Um,

especially uh, leveraging technology to do that, they're not setting help

for success Right. because like one big thing that covet has done is it's y.

Technology and business of all has kind of been partners, you know, or

people have thought of technology of serving the business

when you take the physical space out of the equation

and you know all of the interactions are happening over the web. Or you

know, or or ▁zoom, or or what have you? Um, Technology is the business

right? So you? so? If you're not setting your business up to leverage the

the benefits that you can gain from technology in terms of automation and Y,

you know, being able to sort of quickly introduce new services for your

customers, you're not really position for success. And you know we've seen

companies big and small all sort of

you, really having this kind business driven case for modernizing their

entire technology infrastructure and software stas and applications to move

just that right, So I think that's kind of been one big

business trend that. Yeah, I ive, I definitely noticed across the board with

our customers.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. that's what I've seen you people. Companies have to

pay

and you know reate what they were doing pre, because it's no longer.

everybody has different expectations, so as a good to.

Since you talked about company and culture and hiring, one of the things I

heard from Gbary talks a lot about it is that he hires fast and fires even

faster like he doesn't want to waste time in having

you know processes takes too long to hire, and then the processes that

takes too long to fire. Is there a

philosophy or

you know

any similar thought process that you follow when you have people working

for you?

Yeah, I mean, Yeah, so the conventional wisdom right is like higher, slow

fire fast, right, and uh, but given that we we have to grow so quickly we we

wind up hiring fast right. That's just. and. and the issue with hiring fast

is you don't get the opportunity to fet

the the person as well as you would if you're hiring slow right? so in many

regards I. I, I think the conventional wisdom is probably right, even though

we may not follow it that you really want to vet one. Because when you hire

someone

you are

y, you know you're You're making a bet on them, right, you're saying? Hey, I

believe this person is going to help me do whatever job it is that I'm

hiring them for.

And and once you do that, right you you, I can have a fundamental

responsibility to try to make sure that that person's successful because

otherwise you seem to hi them in the first place, rightcause. You know, when

you fire someone

it's a

I. It's one of the worst things that you can do right to do something,

because I at least in in the short term run, 'cause it itacs. It ba, impacts

them, psychologically impacts their morale.

Yeah,

It impacts their fully right. It's a it's. it's not. It's not fun to be

fired. So, when you you know, so I, I'm a big believer in wanna hire someone

and I, I realize that Okay, they're not a fit or they're not being

successful in what they're doing. It's to me, it's really important to

communicate that very clearly crisply quickly,

Mhm,

and and then put together

a a plan. Uh, And it's and it's and it's not an extended point in time

Right. it's sort of like. Look, this is what we need to do in the next two

weeks. This is what we need to do in the next four weeks, and we're going to

evaluate on a weekly basis,

And

you know, And and either

I see a change in that first week,

right, or that person typically doesn't last a month,

Right Because because when you have that conversation that this is not

working, it's a. It's a serious conversation, right and and we don't do that

lightly. so uh, so I think you've got to have a a path towards either course

correcting, or you know an exit plan for for that person so that they

understand that you know like they didn't just wake up one day, and you

know, call in with H. r. and said, Hey, thanks for your service. Uh, this is

your last day. I don't think that's that you know that that's not helpful

for for anyone. That that's not a culture that we want to have within within

the company, either,

yeah, yeah, yeah, no, definitely

think the firing can be a bad experience. But also if you're not growing if

you are in the right place, is probably the right thing for both the

company and the cabinet, but it has to be right. Just like you said has to

be.

there needs to be an effort of course correction. There needs to be clear

communication and a lot of companies miss like they are just okay. It's not

working, but they don't take time to make the person understand what is not

working.

And then that sort of leaves a bad taste, both

you know person and whoever is firing.

So I think that' a good wise as somebody is building the culture of

organisation to keep in mind that at the end of the day the other side

personting is also a person. So you know they still have mind and heart and

they can take things to Um.

in terms of when people work, Um. When I grew up

in my time in Um, as an employee, I've seen companies that I worked with

they invest a law

in when it comes to hard skills, right they? If you're a good engineer,

they will want to make you the pass engineer. You are there. Like in the

skills they'll give you technology, they'll give you people, or they'll

give you resources. Obviously, you still have to put time to get there, but

who? they don't uh, invest a lot of times into soft skills, And what I mean

by that like A as a programmer. If I'm a very good programmer, the next

step is to become lead and they push you to become leadte, but they don't

give you

skills. They don't train you for there. They give you another lead. Who has

done maybe well, but you almost learn by making the mistakes, but not

having Um

the right direction, the right tools that allow you to become successful

and lo. easier. you know it. Uh. If you expect somebody to in be in a lead

or a manager position, If you have those Uh tools to help them do it, Um

than it gets better. How do you see in while you know, in your career as a

Uh employee, and now as an entrepreneur giving jobs the balance or the need

or importance of having soft skills versus hospitals?

Yeah, I,

that's a great great question. And as you were just mentioning that right, I

was thinking back to my my wily dates right early in my career where I

started interacting

with with customers right, selling to

Hm.

customers, engaging with customers,

and I certainly didn't have those those soft skills at that time. So I,

i,

my manager at that time.

Uh, you're encouraging me to go out and find classes that could could help

right, So I, Yeah, I signed up for

classes in in you know marketing, which, Uh, I. I. I started to kind of

develop an acumen for her. I signed up for classes on presenting right, A. A

and Uh. One of those that I, I remember was like, Um, your presentation

class where they tape us and play back what we were doing And you know

showed us that look. A lot of these skills can be developed right, like if

you look at the first year of Bill Clinton's term and him giving speeches

versus eighty years later and him giving speeches. It's Ru day right now and

they. They actually showed us that video right a, and of of sort of doing

that comparison. And and I and I and I had a oh a ha, like you know. Of

course this this can be done right. Um, so

I, I think that's this is something that companies should invest in, And and

if you're not investing in in helping your technical teams develop these

soft skills, both

int company at an intra company level and also at an intertra company level,

you're doing yourself with the service right. because A as companies grow,

you've in order to sort of not develop silos of hair's engineering, and

here's product management and here's sales, and here's professional services

and accounting, you've got to have people who are able to. Y. You really

talk the same talk right. And and these soft skills are extremely important

in creating a cohesive unit. And and then if you can do that within the

company well, then you can definitely do that with your customers right as

well. Um. And and that leads to growth That leads to uh, the uh, happier

employees, happier customers. A. across the board.

yeah, yeah, no amus. and

as much as this says Um, your employer's um, responsibility that they

should be doing if they really are, you know, focused on employee growth

and company growth. Those leaders are always thinking about ways to expand

their people. If you're in a company that is not investing,

that doesn't mean that you have to take self. you know, uh, responsibility

to educate yourself. That's the only way you can get ahead. Otherwise you

will still be in that has rail. And a lot of times people in technical

backgrounds get stuck because of this reason, because they never

either knowingly don't do it or either they don't even know that they can

go and get better, So I, I think that's an important point

coming to the

Y,

arche, right, Uh, What kind of jobs? Since it's all changing now right in

tech and everything, What do you see on the Hoz and how is the industry

changing in the tech technology space? Are there some things that you see

that are grow up, become like, um, almost, um, uh, you. Know, um, normal

for everybody

today that these are trans. They are going to that here to you know, grow

and live. we have to live with those trends.

Yeah, well, I, I think there's a lot of things that are coming to the

forefront and not having fuellled by Cove. You certainly

automation is one of those things right. We're seeing a big focus on

automation

in in terms of creating efficiencies right, and and

and life has been driven by the need to kind of do work for anableman.

right, because everyone is remote and virtual.

Yes,

Also to sort of just create overall efficienies in in existing processes.

But in order to know what the aut, may

youve you've got to be able to understand

what the lay of the land is right. What what is? What are the dynamics of

where their's friction points and, And, and we're seeing you process mining.

Uh, which you know? Which is really what? What Pes does become something

that's becoming a fundamental part of the organizational. Um. the stack of

services and capabilities to help people understand. Well, Okay, here's an

issue that I have because it takes too long to do this particular stuff in

the process. Once you understand that now you can sort of make decisions on.

Well, do I need to do? Uh, you know, r, p, A, or do we need to uh,

rerchitect the workflow the process, or you know, is it a training issue for

my employees? So these are kind of y. I think there's there's a lot of

trends and you know specifically around how A I, m ▁l is sort of being used

to drive automation in particular.

But uh, yeah, for sure, I think a lot of these impacts, uh of of of coved

are here to stay, and and and really are going to accelerate. sort of these

Uh, these automation capabilities moving forward.

right.

I know our time is highight. I'm goingnna ask two more questions. Then I'll

let you go

Okay,

being an entrepreneur journey being in this journey where I'm starting from

scratch and having

are having a different mindset than an employe where you have to, just like

you said, have to become journist and you need to learn every process

yourself to understand and appreciate

often what happens as people only see the results like ten years later,

like people sees from money has none, you know, successful in business, but

they don't see all the

vall that come,

which are natural, Ba. What are some of the obstacles that you had to

overcome to get where you are Just so the people can see. It was like only

one pro. Jo was able to bring up these companies and do these things.

Yeah, well, you know like e, e,

every e. Every company is an overnight success ten years later, right? It's

so or twenty years later. Um, and A, and I think that's th. That's a really

good point that you're making. Um. I, it's a journey. Um. And you know

people sort of only see the end results. For want to see the end results

Because that's you know, we. we. We all want the, you know, the overnight

unicorn story, right, Like who? who doesn't like that? Um, but you know it's

it's like, like I said, there's there. There's a lot of trials and

tribulations that that anyone

you know who gets to a point of building a successful business has to go

through. There's just you know whether it's it's people issues. Um, you know

it. it's it's it's sort of y y. you. A lot of people kind of wind up

mortgagageing their houses right to kind of support the the business. You

know I, I certainly invested in the business myself in the early days,

because uh, you know, to me I was betting on

Yeah,

myself right and and and I think you know if you' if there's anyone that you

want to bet on it's yourself. And and if you're not willing to do that well,

then it should be entrepreneur right. So I, I, it, We probably don't have

all the time to get get into all of that. It's it's it. It's probably a

potcast on itself in terms of all we, all. Yeah, all the things that are

messed up on a along the way and there's a lot of those. Uh, but I, I think

the

the, the one thing that I've discovered is

it. it's really about the people that you work with Right and and and if

we're If if we have people who complement us, Uh, who are authentic and who

have Gt,

Uh, you can really move mountains right Right. And and those are the

qualities that I look for Um in in people that I'm hiring and people I want

to work with E. even in customers right that I want to do business with Uh,

Because there's there's always ups and downs right. And

you want people

with you on your team.

Uh, who are who are going to be not shaken by the first,

uh, downward, uh fall right. So that that's that's uh. I mean, that's kind

of the biggest lesson that I've learned over the years that it's it's it's

It's always about people. And

And and I need to make sure that I have the right people that are working

with me to to help me help me grow and help the business group.

yeah,

and only fortunately or unfortunately, you can only find about the people.

by working with the short collect, you can do all their dueilence, Interw,

andr everything. But after some just

Well,

work through.

a, absolutely, I, and this. This is why I love. kind of you know, doing

these side projects with you and kind of chatting with you. And you know

working with you because I, I mean, I always learn so much. Um, And and it's

you know, and I enjoy it Right like this is like this. This has been great

and I hopefully we do this again soon. Um, but uh, at the end of the day,

that's what it's all about right. The the rest are details. says.

Yes, Yes,

okay, last,

actually, let me us before us to as question, how do people find about more

about pi and

about you? How can people connect with you to learn more?

Yeah,

S. Certainly, uh, check out pies Dot com. That's p. y, ▁z e dot com. that's

that's our. Uh, Pse. You can kind of get more information requested demo.

Uh, you drop me a note on on Twitter. Uh, pieing s. f, uh, or or pies Inc on

on on Twitter. but uh, certainly uh. You know you could reach out to onef

That who can connect, Connect you with me directly. Uh, but uh, check out

our website. Uh, and you know, if you think buys could be helpful in helping

to baseline and improving

operational excellence, Uh, for your business, And and that's what we're

really about? We're We're all about helping drive operational excellence,

regardless of what your business is right, Whether whether you're a

financial institution, your text stor up your a health care company

manufacturing company, We help identify you', aware of their issues, whether

it's your supply chain or,

Uh,

you have a customer service process. We can help you improve that and drive

better margins and better customer satisfaction.

Maz, Amazing and' put those links in the episode tells people, Can you? So

the last question is

you know if somebody who is not satisfied with the work wherever they are,

whatever they are doing, whether work well, you know, just income, whether

it's They are just not happy with what they do and they want to do. Um, you

know, get into their entrepreneur side of the things Aise, Would you get

them to? You know what can they do to just get started?

Yeah, So the the? the biggest advice I would give is to find out what you're

passionate about

right? That's that's the th. that's That's really the first thing that

anyone who wants to sort of ▁quit their job and you know, go do something

else and what you know, whether it. you want a freelance. You want, Uh,

become a contractor. You know you want to start the next Facebook right.

what? whatever it is? Uh, make sure that you're passionate about what you're

doing and and then develop a plan to get there right. And and it's gonna be

you. And and you know, have no doubt that you should plan for you know,

twenty four, thirty six month

journey to before Start seeing real results right. And and you can figure

out where along the way you wa to ▁quit. Your job to be all in right, but

it. it's It's very rare that you know anything is a overnight success. and

and by overnight, I mean you twelve months right,

Yeah,

especially in ▁ass. Uh, right, you've you getting to product market Fed,

finding the first customers generating you know revenue from the first five

or ten or twenty customers. Um is is something that youre going to need to

do before you can raise real money to sort of start growing, and Um the

business. Uh, so if you're not passionate about it, you're going to fizzle

out right or you say hey's? this is too tough. so finding something you're

passionate about, make sure you can make that commitment of your twenty four

thirty six months, Um, and then get the right team together to go and

execute on it, and Um. And and if you've got those things I like, I, uh, I

think you'd be. You'd be successful, um, and uh,

and and certainly if I'm if I'm able to help them. I'm I'm happy to so feel

pretty. Reach out to me if I can shareing.

thank you. thank you so much from Jo. For this time I have so much to learn

and

I I wish I was taking a not, but I have the video. I can go back and I have

you, but

uh, you're you're You're doing amazing when pre in terms of how you've

started, so I, I'm I'm very kind of excited to kind of closely, and uh,

he'll see how the journey goes, and yes, you born there.