Conflict is unmistakably a part of life. We all deal with it in our homes, workplaces, schools and churches. This means we need help in learning to properly resolve and address conflict. Evangelist, counselor and trainer, David Jung, shows us how to handle the conflict in our lives in a godly and effective way.

Click here to donate to the program

Click here for more Deeper Dive Episodes

OC Church of Christ

Welcome to the deeper dive podcast brought to you by the OC church of Christ.

The deeper dive podcast is about going deeper into God's word, learning new

insight and taking a fresh look at the verses that impact our daily lives.

Today.

We have the honor of hearing from David Jung.

David Jung leads the church in Winnipeg, Canada with his wife.

Erica David is also a mental health counselor and a consultant and trainer

for achieve center for leadership, with a focus on mediation, conflict resolution

and workplace performance training.

This episode is the first of a two-part series and it's from the diversity

weekend held by the OC Church of Christ with the title being can't.

We all just get along.

So get your scuba gear and let's dive deep into God's.

Word here's David, Jung.

Hi, good evening, everybody.

It's so great to see you.

Um, I think, um, when Steve introduced me, it's one of those things where,

you know, I used to mess around with people cuz I'm not a good golf player.

And so when I wanted to win, I would say, look at this guy,

he's gonna make an amazing shot.

And they always miss every single time.

That's my tactic.

If you no good at golf, just praise the guy a lot.

And then they all stressed out and they won't be able to hit.

And so thanks, Steve.

Um, I'm just kidding.

My name is David Young for some of you don't know me.

I am actually from Canada.

And I'll tell you a little more about that.

Uh, no, it's not a little part of the states.

It's, it's actually a new country by itself.

Um, but yeah, I, I wanted to, um, you know, cause I, sometimes people

get all these bios and stuff.

I'm gonna give my bio throughout who I am.

And so you get little pieces of me.

So you probably want, gotta know me a little bit more than you

want to but I wanted to ask you a question and if you are part of this

church, um, for any length of time or if you'd went through the studies

here as you'd know the answers.

And if you're visiting with us, especially if you're online, welcome,

I hope you have a fantastic time today.

Um, if you're new with us, you know, we are a church we believe in Jesus.

We really do.

And we study Jesus out.

And for us to be able to, um, you know, place membership in the church, whether

through baptism or through restoration or, or wherever your faith journey leads, you,

we do have a common thing that defines us.

We have a study series and I know that's changed over the years, but

if I were to ask the members of the church and I were to say, Hey,

I have a friend who is at L and D.

I know what, what are you talking about?

What am I talking about?

Light and darkness.

Did I say light?

Knock?

I didn't L and D cuz we've even shortened it.

Now.

Now someone will say, you mean part one, part two applied five.

Like, what are you talking about?

cause you know, some parts you just do one or two.

I had to do an extend diversion cuz who I am, but L and D

did I pre-interview anybody.

I didn't.

You are from perhaps different places all across, uh, orange

county, but also across the world.

I can be in qui lump poor.

I can be in the middle of Africa and I say, Hey, my friends at L and D

they'd be like, Ooh, that's awesome.

We here just to test it out for you.

If I had a friend who just counted the cost, what's next?

How do you know that?

Because you went through the study series, right?

Yeah.

And there's a reason why we created the study series is so that when somebody

says my friend's building their faith, you know, they're, you know, they're

growing in their love for God, you know?

No, I don't know what you mean when we say there's a way, I mean,

is it the only way to do that?

No, but we have a definition of that where we're clear when we say, Hey, someone's

at L and D they've looked at sin, they're at the study where they counted the cost.

You know what I mean?

Even when somebody says, Hey, go make disciples.

Right?

a lot of us would know what that means to a certain degree, whether

we do it or not, it's something else.

But, but it's, that's a thing, but we know what we're talking about.

Cuz we go through things.

You don't start off with counting the cost first.

I don't know what you do in OC, but that's not what you should do.

You get 'em on the same page.

So why do we have that study series?

So we share a common language.

So when somebody says, go make disciples, we know what the rest of

that is because there's steps to it.

There's intentionality.

There's no confusion from the youngest Christian.

Maybe they don't remember it, but they can recall it to a certain, oh yeah.

That thing, right?

You don't have to do all the studies, but it's nice to do a lot of them

to get you're on the same pace.

So you count in the cost, you know what you're getting baptized into, you

know, this for some of that we baptized into what are you talking about?

Probably go through the study series and you know what we're talking about.

We speak a common language and that's how we really spread so fast.

And I know that when I say go make disciples, you know what happens.

We have an image in our head of what that means, bringing the church, bringing

to Bible, talk with life, involving some food of some sort, you know, it's,

it's actually loving them to the point where they start to see Jesus in us

and we study systematically with them.

Right.

Would you agree?

No, one's conf what are you talking about?

Well, you probably need to go to the studies series and I'm providing you to do

that, but here's an interesting passage.

If you were to go through just Matthew 18, you think about it.

When someone sins against you, what are you supposed to do?

Go gossip about and tell everybody, no, I mean, that's what we do

sometimes, but what do we do?

We go and show our brother or our sister, they send to their fault.

So if I were to ask you, how do you go?

Oh, no, just kind of go, you know, just go talk to them.

There's varying levels of confusion.

When I ask people, when someone sins again, let me tell you, you'll study

the Bible and you will come into a church full of sinners and sooner or

later you are gonna sin against someone.

They're gonna sin against you.

It's a guaranteed thing.

If it's never happened to you, you probably never come to church.

Okay.

I'm pretty sure of that.

Christen sin read the Bible.

It's the most honest book in the world.

No book writes that many bad things about their people and their leaders.

Are you kidding me?

They sin against each other, but can you imagine having no clear

way of going to show your brother and sometimes we'll do it awesome.

Sometimes we won't do it.

Awesome.

And that's why I have a job.

I don't mind go the wrong way.

I don't care.

Cuz I get paid by the hour.

It doesn't matter to me.

You sit down and you listen to people and here's a funny thing.

You have a lot of leaders, a lot of them are volunteers.

You don't have time to sit down and have stuff that keeps going

wrong and you're having the same conversation again and again and again.

And you're not sure why.

And we'll talk about that.

And so today that's why the lesson.

Uh, uh, our, our lesson or, or our workshop, what do you wanna call it?

We're gonna be here for till nine o'clock with a break in between.

And you're online watching on how many people are line, but it's called

the go conversation for a reason.

And it's something we've CR I, we, I created as part of the,

I C O C peacemakers program.

That's being taught.

So about a thousand people.

We've trained to teach this and hopefully it's a new language.

We can speak once again.

It's a, it's a tool, not rules.

You don't have to do it this way, just like you don't have to go

through the studies, but it's really useful, cuz I know sometimes

we get all funky and fantastic.

We do all the studies, all different orders and stuff, but you gotta

include some of the stuff you do, cuz if you don't, they're not gonna get

who they're, who they're following.

I think there are principles and we can teach about the goal conversation that

we can include some of the principles.

But if we miss a bunch of them, you're gonna have a real problem for sure.

And so just a little bit about, uh, me, this place is Winnipeg.

Why do I put that up?

Cuz very few people know where Winnipeg is.

And then when I tell them I it's seven and a half hours north of Minneapolis,

which is in the states, then I get another confused look, where's Minneapolis.

And I'm like, yeah, probably need to pay attention geography class.

But it's right up there where that little arrow points and where you

are is just south of Los Angeles.

That's how far we are from you.

It's quite a distance.

It is a great place.

Um, my wife and I were asked to go take care of the church there and

we've been there for 24 years and people have not tried to kill us yet.

So I think we're there.

We're excited about that.

We live there and it's a, it's a very, it's, it's the,

city's about 800,000 people.

The entire province is a million.

So most people live in Winnipeg.

It's very multicultural city and I'll tell you, we love the church there, but there

are legends that we heard about Winnipeg.

It's very cold and there's lots of mosquitoes.

And what we say is that, uh, we go from frostbite to mosquito bite.

Those are the two seasons.

Okay.

And so.

Uh, because it's at the bottom of a river basin where, where glacial activity,

it's very flat water, doesn't drain and mosquitoes love standing water.

And then they grow there and they it's one of the first questions I'm gonna

ask God, why did you make mosquitoes?

But they feed birds.

You could feed birds without feeding on me.

Right, right.

So they could, but anyway, I, I digress.

There's some bitterness toward mosquitoes.

my goal conversation with them is to slap them till they die.

And so that's one way to deal with it.

So that's what we are also.

This is my family.

I love them very much.

My wife is an incredible sister.

She's Korean.

Um, not, that's not why.

She's awesome, but she's awesome.

I'm actually Chinese.

No, that's not the same.

Okay.

For some of those, you try that.

You're gonna get real people, get me angry with you.

No, it's not.

Isn't this general area kind of.

Right.

But at the same time, you know, we we've, I mean, she's amazing.

She would've been here with me, but she's actually finished

trying to finish her PhD.

You know, that thing that she's doing, she has still made to finish it.

So if you just pray.

Help her to finish it.

She just really needs the time.

Those two other, uh, young men beside us, there are sons and, um, the one on the

far right to you or left to you, whatever.

Yeah.

Whatever, you know what I mean?

The, the taller one.

Okay.

His name is Xander.

Uh, he's a disciple.

He actually lives in Toronto.

He's in, he's in the singles, but he's got a girlfriend.

Um, he's not gonna be single very long kingdom dating.

And so the other one is also, he lives in South Korea.

And so his name is Gabriel.

And so they've been in disciples eight and seven years.

Great people.

We love them very much and they truly empty nested because we

don't take money from us anymore.

That's true.

Empty nesting, not empty nesting with a direct line to my wallet.

And so we also started dating and we realized we started

dating in the same time.

And I was trying to feel which kidney to sell for their wedding.

And so that's, what's gonna happen for us, but we love them very much.

And, um, my wife and I we've been around for about 30 years in, uh,

disciple about 29 years in the ministry.

My other bi-vocational, I do more than one job.

I, um, I have some training in mental health, but that evolved more and more

into conflict resolution and mediation.

So I work in a secular company as well, and I do, uh, organizational

health and we do workplace and really a lot of the materials brought into

the kingdom and it helps us with our organizational health as well.

And I get a special, uh, view on conflict and mediation.

And today, hopefully some of those things can help you with your daily

life cuz this stuff, hopefully you can use it even tonight.

Cuz I don't like stuff that you gotta wait, you know,

till it's a blue moon to use.

I love stuff that you can use right away.

So if you've ever been in an airport, your phone's at a batteries and you don't

have a little battery charger with you.

You're not gonna go buy one that says you need to go charge it.

Cuz if I can charge it, then why would I do that?

I wanna buy one that I can use right out of the box.

This stuff you can use out of the box.

But what I ask you is don't do it in here.

Okay.

You might go, Bryce, need to talk to you.

Not here.

You're not it's cuz I've made that mistake before and they're in the corner and I see

you're using half the conversation arch.

Ya.

See, shouldn't be wait till you get home.

Especially if you're married to the person, give it a night, give,

you know, ask me how I know this.

Right?

Give a night, let it settle in and then have that conversation with your wife.

Don't do it because there's this moment at 1130 at night, maybe you're

fighting with your spouse a little bit and you have that moment to go.

Should I address it?

Should I just leave it?

It should take 15 minutes, four 30 in the morning.

You're still talking and you like, I shouldn't have started the

conversation, but it's too late.

So please don't do that.

And also you need to sign a waiver.

I'm not responsible for the damage.

Okay.

so as I move on, as we start thinking about this, many of you have been leaders

and, and, and just Christians for a while.

And if you learn, have not learned how to do in conflict, your life is

pretty miserable, but some of you know how to do it very, very well.

And some of you don't do it very well at all, and that's fine.

And somewhere in between.

And so why is this important in this situation?

Because you wanna be able to explain to people why you do it well, or what

happens is you can't teach your kids.

You know, I'm not very tall.

I mean, I seem tall up here, but can you imagine me talking

to an amazing basketball?

Well, I'll just talk to Michael Jordan.

And so how do you become an amazing basketball player?

Well, you just take it down the court and dribble a lot, get away from all the

people and just put it in the basket.

Okay.

Well, if it's that simple, I should be able to do it, except there's

a whole lot of things that I'm not considering that I'm five, four.

I don't have a 12 feet vertical.

I'm not talented in that area.

I have other talents.

So for him to say, Hey, David, can you do that?

He's not making it very explainable to me.

So you have an amazing person that deals with conflict and they can't explain it.

You know, just go in there, bro.

Trust God be faithful.

You should be able to take care of it.

Okay.

Uh, that's like telling your 12 year old kid put a CV resume again.

We'll get, get that job.

That's not how it works.

There's some steps.

Right?

And I'll tell you if we don't know the steps, it becomes problematic.

So here's a little chart for us to think about.

There's different levels of competency.

Okay.

So when you think about the first upper hand left hand quadrant, it's something

called unconscious incompetence.

You know what that means?

I'm no good at something.

And I don't know.

It that's really bad.

That's the American idol syndrome.

Do you ever see, would you want to go up inve yourself in front

of a hundred million people?

They don't know how bad they are, but who's in the back.

You're so good.

You're so awesome.

Grandma, your pet groomer, somebody who's lying to you or maybe they believe it,

but usually the British guy gets angry and says, you know, who's your voice coach.

They should be shot, stuff like that.

Cuz you're unconsciously incompetent.

You don't.

Yeah.

The other side is you're consciously incompetent.

You know what you know?

You're no good.

That's good.

That's fine.

And then there's the other side where you're, um, unconsciously competent.

You're really good at it, but you don't know, you know what the problem with that

is if you're really good at something you don't know it, you're not confident.

You won't teach it to others.

Do I'm no good at it, but meanwhile, you're awesome at it.

What we want people to be is consciously competent.

Yeah.

I'm good at it.

And I know I'm good at it.

And then what happens is I can make it explainable.

I can teach you how to do it.

Unlike Michael.

Jordan's gonna tell me, just go score a basket.

Really?

Yeah.

Thanks.

There's a lot of stuff in between.

So if I were to say, Hey, how do you deal with conflict?

Cuz you're very effective at what?

If you don't know how to explain it?

Well, then it dies with you.

So we wanna say, we wanna make this material explainable very clear.

Then transferable to someone.

You can coach your kids, your Bible, talk your life group.

Even your friends.

Cuz if you think about conflict.

It's actually studying the Bible.

This is where evangels get all excited.

What do you mean conflict?

Well, most times that you're studying Bible people.

They have a conflict with God, don't they that's the problem.

Most likely that conflict with God involves conflict with other people.

Right, right.

In some days of a conflict with themselves called sin.

So you're actually, when you're studying the Bible, you're actually mediating

between them and God, them and others.

And even sometimes having that conversation.

So some of these principles actually work in Bible study.

So that's where the evangelism piece comes in.

If you're visiting with us, these principles, whether you use the

Bible or not still work, cuz it's based on research science.

So when you start thinking about it, the dangerous thing is that people

that are unconsciously incompetent, I mean, they don't know how bad they are,

have the same level of confidence as someone who's consciously competent.

They're like, what do you mean?

It usually ends up with the last name I got this bro.

And then dearly beloved gather here to celebrate the life

of so and so like, because.

They really thought they knew what they were doing when they were parachuting.

They really thought I got this, bro.

Meanwhile, they didn't take a course.

I washed it on YouTube, then they die.

Right.

We don't want that.

So at the end of the day, what we're looking for is to get us consciously

competent of, Hey, I'm good at this and I can explain it and what I'm not good at.

I'm not gonna try until I practice it out.

So some of you're really great at this.

Some of you are not, but do you know, but do you know cuz one of the dangerous

things about being in a crisis, you don't know you're in a crisis, you don't

know you're in trouble and we're just gonna keep going and going and going.

Does that make sense?

So it's here.

You're it's everybody has a space here.

So if you know what you're doing, can you explain it?

If you don't know what you're doing, can you be made aware of it?

Right?

And generally the fruit around you will tell you bodies people crying everywhere.

You're probably not good at this.

Okay.

If somebody will pay you for it, there's a good chance that um, they will, during the

pandemic time, I've probably done in the last two and a half years for our company.

I think our business dumped up three, 400.

I've done almost 400, 380 workshops online.

Half of it is conflict resolution.

So anywhere between 45 minutes and six hours long, and people listen on zoom.

That's how badly, because the pandemic time, it increased that for people.

So even when you come back to work at times, you left the person a certain way.

And when you come back, they're not the same person anymore.

It's the same for church.

Well, bro, what happened to you?

Well say what happened to me in years of isolation?

This world in fear, it messes things in conflict.

This increased crazy road, rage, anxiety, and depression, all that stuff that causes

a lot of conflict sometimes in church.

So why is this topic so popular?

Because we're experiencing and we need it.

Does that make sense?

Yeah.

So as we go on, I want you to think about this and this is where I

invite you to pull a pen and paper.

If you want to go old school or use your phone, I want you to think about

a conflict that you'd be willing.

To analyze and look at not, not something that's gonna cause trauma

and trigger you, but something that you think about the last time, somebody

messed up and sinned against you.

And so here's the questions I'd like to ask because we don't want to have

examples where they have no, no reality.

But one thing I don't want you to do is throw people under the bus.

Don't use their names.

Okay.

Don't use their rank and title.

Well, I don't wanna use his title, but he leaves he's the lead evangels

of the no, because in the end you could, this place is small.

You don't wanna throw anybody to the bus, meaning that if you wanna use an

example, have a person that you can use the example, but don't expose them

because you will get a chance to share a little bit with somebody in your

sphere about how you've considered this.

So ask the question who was involved in this conflict with you, who

was involved in sin against you?

Cuz generally when people sin against you, it causes conflict.

Where did it happen?

It matters.

when conflict and sin happens in church.

To me, it hurts a lot more than in the parking lot at Wendy's.

Right.

Cause there's expectations that Christians aren't supposed to sin at all.

Yeah.

Right.

Especially ministers, you can't sin as a minister.

Like how can you you're just, even though every king and

every apostle sin, but not us.

Right.

It's it's no way.

Where did it happen if it happened in church?

Sometimes if it happens in home at the home, it's very different than at work.

Also what was said specifically, what was said, cuz there are things in

conflict that you can punch someone in the face and, but they won't remember it

as much as the hard word that you used because the healing happens physically.

But the emotional scars you're six years old.

What was said, what was done or what was not done by them.

And once again, don't judge too quickly here because you could just be in a

situation where you're perceiving this.

It doesn't matter if it really happened or not.

If you perceive it this way, it's something to think about.

Cuz you're a perception.

There's your reality.

Yeah.

They may see it very different.

Don't worry about it.

We'll get to that.

How did it make you feel or what was it like for you?

Why is that important?

Because over time we don't remember the details of the conflict, but

we remember how we felt and the feelings drive these details.

I don't know about you, but, but sometimes as preacher,

you, you mixed stories bigger.

And this is what I, I call it, the fishing story where my fish gets bigger

and bigger and bigger every time, like I, after a while it's bigger

than the boat, but it doesn't matter.

Then I get a bigger boat in my story, but we build a story it's called

preacher's latitude, but we have that.

And we usually bring the story to the point where it, it favors

us and not the other person, they become a villain and I'm the hero.

Right, right.

I'm the victim of them.

And they're the Villa.

Of course it gets bigger.

But how do the feelings, feelings fuel that?

And after a while the stories so messed up, that you don't

even remember what anything was.

Right.

Yeah.

All said also, how did you respond?

How did they respond to.

Maybe you sitting against them or them sitting against you,

how did you respond to it?

They threw a rock and you threw a rock back.

Yeah, but they threw a bigger rock at me.

Yeah.

But he still threw a rock.

Yeah.

But you know, my background makes me throw rocks at people.

We always have excuses, but how did you respond?

And here's the other question that you might think through?

What would you, or they need to resolve this issue?

What would they need?

Sometimes you have people say, I don't need anything from you.

I never wanna talk to you again.

No, I'm gonna really try.

If they don't want to talk to you, you become a stalker.

If you keep following them around, he can't do that.

Now.

Of course, when they don't wanna talk to you, they don't wanna resolve with you.

Their conflict is no longer with you anymore.

It's with Jesus.

Let Jesus take care of it.

Romans 12.

Right?

As far as it depends on you make peace, live at peace with everybody,

let God do all the business.

Sometimes we're trying to do God's work and God's like be patient with me.

There's only so much that we can do.

So I'd like you to take a couple minutes, write, write the little story down,

write the little story down for yourself.

You can, some people, are you doing it?

Why I've got it in my head already write some of these details down so you

can see maybe to map it going forward.

If you're at home online, invite you to write some of the stuff down, you can use

their name, cuz no one's gonna see it.

Yeah.

Not in chat.

Don't do that.

Yeah.

Thank you for that.

Thank you so much.

I don't want to cause conflict in the conflict resolution,

seminar, jot down things.

That'll help you remember.

You don't have to write down the whole story, but things will help you remember.

And you're not writing this down cuz you're not comfortable doing that.

I invite you to think about it.

Think about some of these questions.

What are some of the key points that you can remember?

that have kept you going, that you see this person at a football

game, there'd be 50,000 people there, but you see where they are.

Like, they're there.

That's how, you know, people that owe you money.

You see them right away.

Why to have that big sandwich, you can, you know, like what's up with that.

Yeah, totally.

What do they owe you generally?

What do you owe them

once again?

This is to remind you, it's not a, a cathartic story writing.

You can do that at home using the same questions.

Also, this is a tip for those who are leaders.

If somebody wants to talk to you about someone sitting against them, they wanna

talk to you about a conflict, get them to fill that out before they talk to you.

So then go everywhere.

They can keep it focused.

It's really helpful for them.

Can you write this down and let them process it so that you get focused?

They get focused before they come and they spaghetti you, you

know, the spaghetti everywhere.

You're like, I, I can't even find what's what begins.

I don't know if that helps leaders.

You go, oh yeah.

Even your kids, even people that, that your neighbor, your

friends, this works on everybody.

Hey, can you write down some of these things that helps

you to be able to sort it out?

Cuz when everything's important, nothing's important.

What's important for them.

Cuz I decide sometimes what's important for them.

Let them decide what they want to talk about.

And then you can see right away.

I'm not gonna even start this conversation cuz I can't help you with that.

They have a real estate dispute and they want to do real estate.

I'm like, uh, I'm not a real estate agent.

I'm not a lawyer.

I don't know what to do.

But here, here, here's a phone number you can call end of conversation.

But sometimes it doesn't stop us from giving a device anyway, because we

don't know what we're talking about.

We'll keep talking cuz it'll come up.

Probably sometimes how's that gonna work?

It doesn't work.

At least I know what I'm talking about and what I don't know.

I don't know.

So once again, that conscious incompetence, I know I'm no good at this,

but I know somebody that can think about how much time that would've saved you.

The last time you did this and went, I don't even know what they're

talking about, cuz they don't know what they're talking about.

And if they can't put this together, there's a reason why they

haven't sorted their thoughts yet.

And so you're gonna have this goal post that keeps moving, but

they expect you to meet needs.

They can't even define how fun's that, you know, Jay, I want some food.

What kind of food?

Well, you know, just food and he keeps coming back with stuff.

No, I don't like that.

I don't like that.

I wouldn't it be easy if I told him what I wanted.

Right.

Well, this is how it works.

So I don't know if that's useful to you already.

We haven't even looked at passages in the Bible, but there's so many

cool things in the Bible you can look at that helps with this.

Right?

So I'm gonna move on.

I know it's probably giving you a lot of time to write down stuff, but

it gives you an idea of why this is useful for that goal conversation.

Cuz you want to know what you're talking about.

You want to do that.

So when you look through the Bible, right.

The theology, the, the understanding of God and the way he does things

should inform Christians of the way they deal with conflict.

Worldly, conflict resolution sounds, looks like this point a gun out,

stop fighting, stop fighting, and we'll shoot you conflict over.

It's done conflict resolved.

Not really though, because when I take the guns away, you know what happens?

They start fighting again.

So I had some friends like back in the day, my household, you know, Asian family,

I'm last saying, it's all like that.

When my dad yelled conflict was over me and my sister and brother would be

fighting about something silly, but it seemed earth changing to earth.

Shattering to us.

My dad would come and blast.

So power was the way to deal with conflict.

But of course, when he left, oh man, we'd go at it again.

I had another friend though.

She had an interesting way.

Her mom dealt with it.

And, um, whenever the kids would fight, the mom would bring in a bag of candy.

The kids got candy to stop fighting.

What the kids figured, two things.

One, they liked candy.

And after they manufactured conflicts to get candy, they didn't learn a

lot about conflict resolution, but they certainly got a God of cavities.

They did maybe a little bit of diabetes with it too, but whatever it is they

learn about, I'm not sure if that was your household, but when we don't have

a clear understanding of where we stand on conflict, we will approach it in a

way where we're we like it way too much, or we just don't deal with it properly.

And we just go quiet.

I mean, one of the books I'm gonna recommend is called peace making

is the best place we wanted to be, but it's peace faking in peace,

breaking, you know what I mean?

Peace Parker, ah, you know, and peace peacemaking.

Oh, it's all good.

You know, just an eye.

I mean, lost when I got another one, like, like it's, that's what we do.

And it becomes problematic.

Even certain cultures.

There's certain things we won't have conflict about certain

roles and response people.

We don't have conflict about.

Well, that's no good because in the new approach being Christian, we gotta

shape the way we do with conflict.

With the theology that matches with God.

And so we have a personal mindset and approach the conflict.

Thinking about your conflict example, how did you approach it?

Don't judge yourself.

Well, and we kind of, well, I should have done this.

Okay.

Not what you should have done.

What did you do?

Yeah.

What's your personal mindset.

It's that awareness piece, but then you gotta ask yourself, does it follow

any Bible, examples of how to do it?

I mean, the healthy examples, there was unhealthy ways in the Bible too,

and also different principles to support that approach and practice.

Cuz if you can't find the principle or the example in the Bible,

how come you do it that way?

Cause it's the book of opinions.

Chapter four, one of my favorite books, the book of David chapter one, let's

turn there like you can't do that.

But we do.

Cause what we do is we gravitate to the family of origin, the way we saw conflict,

dad yelling or the bag of candy and we do it that way and you'll see it in home.

You'll see it in church everywhere.

And so what happens is we do it in a toxic way.

We don't build the way God builds and we're wondering why the house

keeps falling down, cuz God said, so.

So if we look at this, these passages, I'm not gonna go through every

one of them, but they're biblical examples of conflict resolution.

And when people sin, this is how they get dealt with.

If you look at Exodus 18 verse 13 to 27, everybody knows this passage, Moses

and the gang of people left Egypt.

They bought a whole lot of people that didn't want to be Egyptian slaves.

Do you know?

Not all of them are Israelites.

There's a whole lot of people that didn't want to be slaves either.

So you had mixed religions, mixed peoples that's rife for conflict.

Yeah.

EXOS 18 happens before Exodus 20.

You know what significant thing happens, exs 20, the 10 commencements are given.

So what happens in exit 18 is you have Moses lining up day and night

with the people and what was the issue he needed to help them see

God's will when they had disputes.

If somebody says, oh, that's the way to organize Bible talks, no, to organize

disputes, but who brought him the idea.

Jet row.

His father-in-law said, Hey, Moses, dude, I'm paraphrasing.

Of course, this is no good.

You're gonna tire yourself out.

Cuz you're the only guy dealing with their conflict.

You know what you need to do set up leaders, organize them and set

up and deal with the conflicts.

Yeah.

Remember who GE row was?

He was his father-in-law what, what other title did GE row hold?

He's what high priest of media, high priest of median do you

think that's just a title.

Like, you know, I wear a Harvard sweatshirt, but I didn't go there.

You can't have that title without actively being a high priest of median.

Do you know what those guys were into child sacrifice and all the

things God hated the media nights would be a pain to the Israelites.

So this high priest of median, I'm pretty sure he did some things or against

God came and gave Moses some advice.

Isn't that wacky and weird.

Do you know that before anything else before the 10 commandments were

given, this was the first structure that God set up to help them deal

with conflict brought in by a non.

Hmm.

So yeah, Dave, a lot of this stuff's in the world, you mean like what

GE row brought in GE row never followed Moses to the promised land.

You know why?

Cause he needed to go back to his job as high priest, as median.

You don't just, well, he's high priest ETU and he doesn't do that anymore.

No way they sacrificed children.

They were immoral.

There were nasty people.

You're the high priest, the head honcho of that.

You're doing something that's against God, but yet for some strange reason,

God allowed great wisdom to be brought in by a sinful broken person,

wrong religion, wrong way, doing it.

But there was some wisdom from the world.

You know, I know many of us are great musicians.

How many of us went to the I C C music school.

Oh, none.

Okay.

A lot of you, you do mechanics.

Anybody go to the I C C school of mechanics?

No, you bring in non-Christian teaching because it aligns with God's word.

When it doesn't align with God's word, then it's wrong.

A lot of the music music can be pretty sinful guys.

You know this, right?

Yeah.

Music can be awesome too.

It depends on who's using it.

So Jetro brought in conflict resolution principles to organize

and not let one person do it.

Maybe in your Bible talk, maybe you're the ministry leader.

Maybe you're the person in the family has to do with all conflicts.

Wouldn't you wanna share the burden a little bit and if

you don't, you got a problem.

You're probably codependent.

Like you just wanna be needed all the time.

You might even create conflict to wanna be needed.

That's no good.

So we start thinking about jet row, set this up, Moses set it up because I think,

and this is just my opinion that if they didn't deal with the conflicts in Exodus

18, they would've never made it to the mountain to get the 10 commandments.

They would've never made it there.

There was so bad.

Why would you wait day and night to talk to one guy day and night?

You waited for him.

Why is that?

Cuz you had a problem.

You didn't know how to solve.

Yeah.

So.

Moses had to come up with a better way.

And I think our understanding is that we gotta get a good at this

cuz if we don't, you may never make it to the 10 commandments.

If you don't fight dealing with people in the world.

As we study the Bible with him, a lot of times, a lot of conflict

with people, don't you think some of this might be useful to them?

It's very evangelistic.

We think about Genesis 18.

You know, when you look at this where, you know, they were bartering

for Sodom and Gamora, you know, can imagine being okay, God, what about 30?

What about 20?

What about this?

If anybody's been to the middle east or some parts of the world or Africa,

they have these bizarres right where you just yell at people and then they

yell at you back and, and, and it goes like 20, well, I have a family.

How can you do this to me?

Whatever back and forth.

Well, can you imagine watching Abraham argue with God about

how many people there should be?

You be like, that's so disrespectful.

Well, apparently to God, he didn't care bargaining that conflict

led to some amazing stuff.

Right?

And so it's crazy to think about it where even in Genesis 32, you

imagine Jacob walking around and God meets him for the first time.

And do you remember what God asked him?

Let's fight.

Let's wrestle as a mom.

You'd be like, Hey, you too.

Stop that right now.

God's like, Hey, you better be quiet.

I wanna smoke you.

If you don't.

I need to do something here.

Cuz Jacob needed to learn some stuff.

God fought Jacob.

He initiated the fight.

Why?

Because when conflict is done, well you gotta blessing.

Yeah.

Well Jenna 25, remember the whole soup incident, right?

With Jacob and Esau that wasn't done well with some trickiness,

you scheme your brother.

And even to this day, the descendants of Esau, the Edomites the modern

day people there are still fighting the I whites to this day.

Well, they didn't do conflict well, and they got a very bad curse because of it.

So you see conflict is not bad.

It's the way you do it.

Yeah, right.

You think of judges 18.

That's a horrible story.

You can, and that's not a kingdom kid story.

Believe me.

It was a situation with the concubine that wasn't getting along with her husband and

that marriage caused a lot of problems to the point where she was abused and killed.

And this, this Levi just cut up her body parts and sent it to all to Israel.

What are asking a question to start a war and they figured out, oh no,

we almost wiped out a tribe here.

We better get women for them.

Oh, that's not enough women.

Let's go back and forth.

What a chaotic mess.

And I'll tell you judges 18 completely forgot about Genesis Genesis,

chapter EXOS 18, where did all the conflict resolution principles go?

If you read it Genesis just 18 will tell you right away.

That's a gong show in the Bible.

Like everything's just crazy in there where you think, how

can the Bible not be true?

The crazy stuff.

Just read it for some light reading before you go to bed

and ju, and, and judge is 18.

You're gonna go.

Wow.

How did Israel survive?

They did conflict very badly and they forgot what happened in exo is 18.

There were no resolvers.

And what's the big theme scripture in judges when Israel had no

king people did, as they pleased.

The good part of that scripture is good.

People do as they pleased and bad people did, as they pleased good

people do what God wants bad people do.

What, what bad ones.

And so we start thinking, these are biblical examples, and you can find many,

many more of biblical examples of conflict and our re our approach to dealing

with sin, dealing with our brothers and sisters, dealing with our friends.

It's gotta be informed by the scriptures, if not, it's informed by you.

Yeah.

Sometimes it might be lucky you get it right.

But most times you're gonna bang into walls and not know why and blame

the other person blame all this.

And God says, do it my way.

If you don't, I am telling you, you're gonna, if bad things

are gonna happen to you, right?

Yeah.

But it's really uncomfortable.

The word comfortable is never gonna be in this workshop anywhere.

Because it's uncomfortable to do with conflict.

Just like when God wrestled.

I mean, what happened to Jacob's hit God snapped and that's what happens, right?

I think Kyle, Spear's an awesome brother.

He said, relationships are a conflict or a contact sport.

It's true.

It's true.

You know, I don't want to freak anybody out here, but even the,

of creating children from far away, it looks like conflict.

You're wrestling each other.

You're you're not obviously, maybe you are, but whatever, what it

is, that's the way to make life.

You wrestle in prayer.

Conflict.

Conflict is beautiful.

The oceans being separated.

There's a lot of violence there in a way where a lot of up horror, but

that's how the world was created.

And so when we think about it, if we avoid conflict, we're not really

looking what the Bible says, but if we run to it too much, we're

not really looking what the Bible.

There's times.

It's awesome.

And there's times that it's not.

So if your heart says, well, my brother sits against me, then I'm

just gonna go after him with an ax.

Or if my brother sits against me, then I'm not gonna talk about it.

Cuz I'm just gonna be a, a doormat.

Both those approaches are wrong and it won't help our church.

A lot of times what we see these little conflicts with the seeds

of very large conflicts in 2003 was a huge conflict for us.

And when we don't do it well, we lost a lot of people and the

damage is still being felt today.

It wasn't just a one time situation.

It's ongoing tooth rot.

It's not just pulling it out one time.

It's not and it's still hurting us.

No, no, it's not.

It's not hurting us.

Yeah.

Why am I so popular?

Doesn't make sense.

I'm in from Winnipeg.

Why, why we, why am I standing here?

Because you need the, you need the conflict teaching

across as we do our programs.

I'm not important.

It's the topic that's necessary.

That's what the difference is.

Okay.

Nobody thinks of garbage people until they don't work.

Then everything starts to stink.

You're like, wait a minute.

I really needed that person.

I didn't notice before.

Right.

So as we move on, this is the passage we're gonna focus on this conflict

resolution model, probably one of the number one scriptures that we show each

other when somebody sends against you for those taking pictures, this the Bible.

I dunno if you know, it's, it's actually in the Bible.

It's in.

Yeah, it's in there.

Okay.

I, I, yeah, just let you know.

The other slides may not be, but sorry.

I'm not gonna be a jerk.

It's just in the Bible.

Yeah.

So Matthew 18 verse 15.

If your brother sins against you go, okay.

And show him his fault just between the two of you.

If he listens to you, you have won your brother over, but if he will not listen,

take one or two others along so that every matter may be established by the

testimony of two or three witnesses.

If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church.

And if he refuses to listen, even to the church, treat 'em as you

would a pagan or a tax collector.

that doesn't mean throw them out of the church.

That's not.

And, and it means to love them, like you would to pagan a tax

letter, but they're not disciples.

It means we love them.

They don't become enemies.

They just become enemies of God.

I understand.

But when we look at these, these are words I want to think about.

Go just like we go make disciples.

We don't have steps sometimes.

So we go wherever we want.

And so what if we unconsciously incompetent?

So the way you go matters.

So what if I go wrong?

And I say, well, that brother's just prideful.

It's not listening, but I came in all wrong with an ax

and they weren't prideful.

They were scared.

It's a whole different thing, not being sensitive to culture experience,

not being sensitive to anything.

So this therapist Gottman said this the way a conversation starts is

usually the way it's gonna end.

If I start going wrong, what are the chances gonna go right at the end?

They won't, I don't care how we start.

If God doesn't interview.

And we, I mean, we can repent halfway through, but if we think we're right.

When we go the wrong way, it's gonna be problematic.

Cuz not only do I not see that I'm wrong, then I blame them.

Show what do I show them?

I usually show them a narrative that stacks up against me, me being right.

Right, right, right, right.

And they're wrong.

Even if, even, even if I'm I'm wrong, it's it's it's little a minute.

So I go from denial that I'm wrong to minimization how wrong I am to.

Well, if you weren't like that, then I wouldn't be like, it's blame shifting.

I just don't own it though.

I just don't own it.

And so remember this a rock does not remember as a window.

If you're a rock flying through a window, you're not gonna remember

a window remembers cuz it's broken.

You're not gonna remember the same way.

If you are the rock and it's time for us to be able to learn, what

do I mean by show this person?

And also I'm trying to win my brother, not crush him.

There's a difference.

If I go in with the mindset, I'm gonna show you our motives.

The way our face even looks, you know, that face you get, we like,

you know, I wanna talk to you, bro.

Like, wow, great start.

You know what I mean?

Try it on your wife.

See how that goes.

It just doesn't go.

And the Bible talks about bringing others.

Doesn't not assume to bring others.

If it doesn't work for you that know more than you, that are a little more

experienced, a little more spiritual.

Okay.

What if I bring in two others just like me?

And I say, well, I brought three brothers along and he still doesn't listen.

Yeah.

Cuz you brought three of the same guy, three of the same guy, right?

With some Canadian singer, you know, you're looking for a knife.

All you got is a spoon.

I don't, well, I got more spoons for you.

And so there's times when we're looking for this amazing plumber

and it's an electrical problem.

No, no, no, bro.

I'm gonna bring in the best plumber in the city.

Um, it's still an electrical problem.

I'm gonna bring in the world sector plumber.

You don't even have a clue, bro.

This guy has done so much plumbing in the planet.

He's been a plumber for 45 years.

Okay.

I'm sorry, but it's an electrical problem.

You know what?

He's gonna give it a shot, cuz he's been no anointed by God.

It's still an electrical problem.

And this is what it sounds like when the plumber tries to do it.

We're gathered here to celebrate the life of this brother.

The most amazing plumber that's ever existed, who tried electrical

work, cuz he was unconsciously incompetent and tried to do stuff.

There's a science to this.

There's a spirituality to this, not for everything, but if it's been

happening again and again, you're having the same three conversations.

You're having the wrong conversations we need to bring in people that

know what they're talking about.

They don't have to be professionals, just look around for people

that are effective with them.

Hey, can you help me?

Cuz I'm not effective.

I don't care what t-shirt I wear.

Sometimes I could be so awesome, but they just don't trust me.

So I got a lot of skills, but they don't trust me.

Let me tell you all my degrees and all the things, what I'm fighting with.

My.

She didn't care.

Don't analyze me, but I can though I don't do it.

You conflict stuff of like what?

Oh, what I make money doing this?

I don't care.

It doesn't work with me.

You're wrong.

Well, you're wrong.

You see now I'm five years old again.

so Christian, do we not know way more than we do?

Who here doesn't know how debt works, right?

Don't spend more than you have.

I don't need an MBA for that.

We don't do it though.

You know why my emotions get in the way the iPhone fourteen's out.

I need it.

Right.

I know that.

I know I shouldn't say this, but I'm gonna say it anyway.

Cuz it feels good.

It feels good.

So when we bring others along, are they gonna bring in the same emotional energy?

So when I say something, I wanted to land a certain way,

the words and the intention.

If someone can't do that for me, I'm bringing the wrong people in.

You have that happen.

I don't care how awesome of a plumber they are.

I need an electrician.

I need an electrician.

The most basic electrician can handle something that the most

complicated plumber can't conflict is something like that, where you

may have some things that you have experienced and you can help with.

Does that make sense?

So look at this passage, we're gonna unpack this a little bit.

How do you go, how do you go to others or conflict resolution?

Think about the way you approach that conflict example.

How did you approach it?

What did you do?

I want you to turn to the person beside you, if you don't mind and in

one sentence or two, say this, what was something that you did great.

And was this something you didn't do?

Great.

I'll tell the whole, you don't need to do that.

You know, in my conflict, you know, I went in and yelled at them.

Yeah.

That, that, that wasn't awesome or something I really did great.

You know, I only yelled at them a little bit and then I

stopped took whatever it was.

Think about the conflict.

What do you see now?

What did you do?

And it's a checking awareness.

So turn the person beside you and say, Hey, if you don't have someone beside you

go find a friend and say, In my conflict example, don't give them tons of context.

What did you do well?

And what did you, what could you have done better if you

have three, top to three it's.

Okay.

It's not a sin.

If you're at home, talk to someone, chat online.

Remember no names, no names made this mistake before.

What did you do?

Good.

What could you have done?

Some of this is the essence of what went wrong.

What could I have done differently?

What did I do?

So thank you, partners, high five or whatever you do here.

Whatever's, COVID pretty like, see, thank you so much for listening to me.

I don't know how it felt for you to be able to kind of encapsulate cuz we

give a lot of details, but sometimes it gets down to, you know what, I did

this well and I didn't do this well.

And it, it is just as simple as that to walk through.

Now I'm not talking about multi-lateral conflicts, you

know, between Russia and Ukraine.

I'm not talking about that most stuff.

Aren't that level at your house, I think, right?

You got, you might need some serious support, but the average things involve

stuff like, you know, How come we waited so long in the line at Costco,

we could have went to, you know, Walmart and get that where I like Costco.

I like the hot dogs.

There could be something as simple as that, the stuff that I get

talked to about, I can't believe people are paying me money for this.

The thing about it is it doesn't matter because it's not about the Cutler.

It's about your relationship.

That's what it is.

You can fight about stuff in the end.

You're gonna fight about the silliest things is because you're

mad at the person has nothing to do with scallops or, or chicken.

It doesn't matter cuz you know this, if somebody says, you know,

honey, can you pass assault?

I'll pass the salt.

You have some strong convictions about salt.

I don't think so.

You know something's wrong.

And so as we start thinking about this question, where is practice

makes what practice makes perfect.

That's what we say.

Okay.

But what happens is if you do it wrong, practice makes permanent

practice makes permanent.

If you do it wrong, see proper practice makes.

It.

So what if I work harder?

What if I don't know what I'm doing?

Remember the plumber electric, I'm gonna just keep going for it.

Listen, you're gonna electrocute yourself, bro.

I know you need to see Jesus, but not just right away.

Right?

So at the same time, can you imagine in heaven?

Yeah.

What are you doing, man?

Your license says plumber.

What were you doing?

Right.

You get outta a whole life.

But you know, I try warning you with the little zaps, but after a while, I'm

not gonna violate physics just for you.

Right?

So the end of the day practice makes permanent well, bro,

it's been working for me.

Can you explain how it works?

So many of us, we practice and practice and practice effort

does not mean productivity.

So as strong as Steve is, he can push against that wall.

The building's not gonna move.

And there's something I don't know about him pushing, pushing.

He's gonna sweat.

His muscles are gonna hurt.

It's gonna be great.

The only thing he's gonna get is sore back the building.

Won't move.

If we're looking to move the building, there are times we'll try and try and try

without realizing that it's okay to re.

That effort hard work, but the wrong tool, the wrong tool, you'll never get it done.

Do you know that most household tools are broken because you

use for the wrong purpose?

How many butter kni are have little D in it?

Because you try to use it as a screwdriver, not meant for a screwdriver.

Would you use a screwdriver to cut a steak?

You wouldn't witch ya.

Well, why would you do that?

Well, I'm just too lazy to go get one.

Well, then have fun with all the broken knives for us as disciples, we have

learned a way and oftentimes, you know what, bro, you go pray about it more.

What if you're doing the wrong thing?

I don't care how much you pray about it.

I'm gonna pray about this brother.

Who's a plumber to do electrical work.

God says, I'm gonna give you that miracle.

Go to school for that.

What would I do that for you?

That doesn't make any sense.

That's a silly prayer.

And as we think about this, the go conversation has steps to it.

And once again, this is a tool, not a rule.

It's got four steps.

It's called plan and name the issue.

Be curious and listen.

Share your opinion.

And you repeat one to three till you figure out what the

issue is, then you resolve it.

It's just as simple as that, but very difficult when you start breaking it down.

Let me tell you where my favorite is.

I wanna start at number three.

Yeah.

Share my opinion.

What's the issue.

Doesn't matter.

I'm gonna share my opinion.

I got 10 pieces to a hundred piece puzzle.

I'm gonna tell you it's a Womba it's a for sure.

It's a Womba meanwhile like, well, you only got the corner piece.

You don't know what it looks like.

I just know, cuz I've been around a long time.

Let me explain this to me, myself.

I don't care how long I've been around.

I'm still not a mind reader.

I, I don't care.

I've been around.

How am I gonna know the situation?

Now?

It may be similar to situations, but the idea for me is I love

going to number three, don't you?

I don't wanna share.

I wanna ask a bunch of questions.

Just waste time.

Since I already know what's going on, we do it with our kids and

there's a point in time to go.

You know what?

What's the point in talking to mom?

She won't even to listen.

and then that comes up in counseling later on.

Thanks.

Thanks for, by the way, you know, we don't mind kingdom kids loved it.

And also the teen ministry too, right?

Yeah.

My mom, you know, she doesn't listen to me.

Oh, okay.

How do we talk to your mom about it?

Oh, it won't matter.

She won't listen.

Let me tell you, this stuff shows up in home.

It's serious.

Now.

It shows up in church, this kind of stuff, when it's done wrong is

the poison in our home hypocrisy.

And so we start thinking about it even my own life.

My kids, man, when our kids lied, we asked two questions.

One.

Why did you lie?

And secondly, what conditions did we create in the home for you to lie?

That's important to know.

I wanna make sure it's not us, cuz if it is, we need to do some stuff, but

that only will happen with one and two.

Instead of jumping to three, I think when they're one years old,

you can go for the three cuz they don't know what they're doing.

They're gonna kill themselves.

If they go their own way, you know what I mean?

They will.

I want to, you know, I want to eat this tide pod.

No, there's no listening, no validation of your feelings.

It's not gonna happen.

When they start getting older and they do have these things practicing,

cuz what's cute at five is not cute at 15, it's just not okay.

But some things they're sinful at five will still be sinful at 15.

There's no magic kingdom kid solution for this there isn't.

So when I practice and show sharing my opinion first, they will also do the

same thing and then I'll power over them.

Yeah.

You need to listen to me.

You mean like you listen to me, you know, a sermon is caught more

than taught as you probably know.

Right.

They catch what I do more than what I say.

I learned to smoke cuz my dad was telling me while he was smoking not to smoke.

I was like, oh yeah, how's that working for?

You look pretty cool doing it.

Right.

And as we think about this sharing my opinion first is my number one choice.

Think about your situation.

Did you know what was going on?

Did we start sharing?

Did you know what was really going on?

And so when we don't, that's probably the conversation issue right there.

So plan to name the issue.

When you think of Proverbs planning.

Who thinks about planning a conversation when someone sins against

you it's especially then cuz you're emotional, you just got kicked.

And so you've gotta be able to make a plan.

Especially if this person's got historical conflict with you,

somebody that's a key relationship.

Somebody where they can fire you.

It's important.

Okay.

Well the Bible says the plans of the diligent diligently to profit

is surely as haste leads to poverty.

I want to win profit in this argument.

I want our relationship to pay dividends, not cost me taxes.

When somebody doesn't trust you, you pay heavy taxes.

You do.

Hey Jay, can you do this?

You would.

You mean by that?

You see taxes.

It takes forever.

Well you trust someone, a handshake can take care of it.

You don't trust someone stocks and stocks and stocks of paperwork.

Warren buffet made hundreds of millions of dollars of deals shaking

people's hands cuz he trusted them.

But for much smaller deals, he's written a lot of paperwork cuz he doesn't trust.

Because he doesn't know who you are, but at the end of the day,

if I don't plan, I'm gonna go to poverty in all my relationships.

So what does planning look like?

Thinking about the situation, asking questions.

I call the reporter questions.

Who, why, when, where, how, what are the questions that you started

answering in the beginning?

Cause if we don't plan it out, we're gonna get surprised by the

information that we miss, because when I'm emotional, I don't bless you.

When I, I get emotional, I don't ask the right questions.

I don't ask for the big picture.

I only focus on the picture.

That's important for me.

And so why is this important for me, cuz if I am talking about the wrong stuff,

I'm trying to solve the wrong issue.

That doesn't even really solve it.

When Stanford professor said this, if I had an hour to solve a problem to that, my

life depended on is a pretty big problem.

I would spend 45 minutes defining the.

to finding the problem.

Have you ever raced start to solve a problem?

It's the wrong problem, right?

Oh, is that what you're talking about, man?

I should have listened first, huh?

Right, right.

I shoot first interview later.

That's not how it goes.

That's not how it goes.

Right.

For me, planning involves making sure I know the answers to these questions.

And if I don't know the answers, those are the first questions I'm gonna ask.

Hey, who are you upset or is it your wife?

Do you know how many conflicts I've been in?

Where the brothers sat down and the brother agrees and

he goes home the next day.

He doesn't agree again.

We're like, huh?

What's the problem here.

And after a while you realize it's the wives that are mad at each

other and not even the brothers.

Well, they get the wrong people in the room.

Well, you go back and tell him this and they go like, yeah.

And, um, you know, I believe that, um, uh, and like, are you reading that?

Like, what are you doing?

He's not their convictions.

And we've had that many times.

It's the sisters that are mad at each other or sometimes as the brothers and

they're fighting through their kids.

Something's wrong.

And we don't ask these questions.

We're trying to plan.

We don't plan.

Well, we're gonna come to poverty and waste all this time, energy and money,

and many people who volunteers get burned out because they're like, we're never

gonna to the end of this wouldn't you rather just identify it very quickly.

And if you can't identify it, then you're gonna gonna go in and

ask questions and maybe get lots of advice and say, okay, okay.

What if you hear again and again, that they've asked five other people, the

same thing, then it's not about you, is it it's a pattern that you see in

other people instead of saying, well, you know, it's just about me and getting

all insecure and, and when you see the pattern, it gets pretty powerful.

So thinking about planning, what, what would you do differently thinking about

your conflict, write a few things down.

What questions were missed in your initial, thinking

about how you dealt with that.

When somebody sys at you, when you, when you remember the initial

conversation you wrote about, what's something that you would like to know?

You know what I think I missed the big, how question.

so maybe even check off, like write a few words.

Now I need to go and explore the, how I need to explore the what in this question.

Cause if I don't think about it, I'm gonna feel about it.

And my feelings drag me everywhere.

You think about sales people, I'm not nailing sales people, but they

sell to your heart, not to your mind.

And I'll tell you what I mean when something costs $599.

What I say, oh, that's 500 bucks.

That's my heart says my mind says, wait, that's $1 from 600, right?

What does this really cool looking thing has to do with a washing machine?

It doesn't because you sell to the heart, right?

Sales people.

Hey bro.

I mean, Hey, Hey Steve man, you look like a really awesome guy.

Listen, I don't do this for everybody, but I like you I'm gonna give you 30%, bro.

I could lose my job if I tell this . But if you buy this from me in the next

10 minutes, you know what, I'm gonna give you 15, cuz you're a good guy.

But once you leave this table, I don't wanna risk my job.

I got a family, but if you get up from this table, I won't be able

to do it for you, but Hey, listen.

I'm I'm not just saying this, but I really do like you you're Christian minister.

Got you.

Okay.

So listen, don't tell anybody all, I bet you say that to all the girls and they do.

Yeah, I know.

What's he trying to sell?

He's not selling to Steve's mind.

He's selling to Steve's heart.

And we know this advertising will tell you how this works.

I will follow my heart before I follow my mind.

And we know this, we don't plan.

We will follow emotions.

Not, I'm not saying it's wrong.

Follow your emotions, but it can't be the only thing.

Right.

Right.

When you think Esau, when he sold it for a bowl of soup, you

think he was thinking real hard?

Not at all.

He was using.

Oh, I'm hungry.

Right?

And so I, I like to say this.

You never make decisions when you're in a halt situation.

H a L T anybody heard of this before hungry, angry, Lonely

or tired don't make decisions.

Cause you know what you do with prisoners of war, you make them

hungry, you make them angry, you make them lonely, you make them tired

and then you get info out of them.

Why would I do that to myself?

Yeah.

Right.

Why would I do that to myself?

And I'm not gonna be my best self.

Right.

And so planning involves, okay, I'm not gonna do it this time.

You know why?

Because it's, I'm, it's two, remember the 11 o'clock I think I'm gonna address it.

It'll take 15 minutes.

Nah, man.

That's a fail.

Like it's it's wrong.

Next thing.

Even naming the issue.

I want you to think about this passage when they heard this.

Okay.

This was talking about this ride in Ephesus.

Okay.

And they're fighting about Artis and silver and all that kind of

stuff, but they made it a religious argument and listen to what this says.

Read the story.

It's amazing when they heard this, the crowd.

Okay.

They were furious and began shouting greatest Artis of the IANS.

So they're really excited, very fired up.

But listen to this, the assembly was in confusion.

Some were shouting, one thing, some, another, most of the people

did not even know why they were there, but they were really loud.

If you read the story, it's hilarious.

Yeah.

Not so much for the apostles that were involved, they got beaten for it.

The idea is that when you're not specific with an example and clear about what the

issue is, what are you talking about?

Right.

What are you talking about?

So if you go in talking about everything, you're gonna end up talking about

everything and it gives the person a way out the Dodge and do Bible gymnastics

around it versus, Hey Jay, you know, bro, can I, can I ask you something?

I, um, you made a comment the other day and I wanted get

some clarification about that.

It was about my shoes and I, I'm just wondering, can you, can we talk about

that a little as opposed to, Hey, you know, I didn't appreciate the way

you disrespected me about my shoes.

Like very one is like, and the other one is I just, I do, I am curious about it.

It takes a little bit of planning goes, wow, how do you do that?

Cuz I planned statements like that out.

To make sure that he's not feeling judged and it could be totally something

very different than what I think.

So thinking about this, about your example, what specific thing that

they do with an example, remember, you're trying to go to them for

a conflict resolution situation.

Cuz they syndicates what specific that well, they were disrespectful.

What do you mean by that?

Well, you know, they were, you know, disrespectful, you

know what disrespectful is?

No, I don't, I don't know what that means.

What does that mean for you?

And I use this on my workshops a lot.

Can someone explain this statement to me for those who know it?

Cause you've watched me align.

Don't answer please.

The chicken is ready to eat.

What's that mean?

I know you don't trust me where you go.

What's up to sleeve here.

The chicken's ready to eat.

What does that mean?

Hello?

Like what?

We're still here.

Yeah.

Yeah.

The chicken's ready to eat.

What does it mean?

The chickens dinner is ready.

You got food.

Eat the dinner.

Who's ready to eat.

The dinner.

Chicken is ready.

So the chicken is ready to eat the dinner.

Right?

What's another way.

What's another meaning of that.

The chicken is good.

The chicken is cooked.

Ready for me.

One's good for the chicken, right?

One's not so good for the chicken.

You might go.

I never thought of that way before when I do these workshops in rural communities,

most people think, well, okay.

I used to do chores.

I used to feed the chickens.

A lot of people in the cities that never go.

Why, why would you feed a chicken?

Comes in a little package.

in a, in a drumstick.

Like, what are you talking about?

Cause it's your context, right?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Not a workshop where somebody says, you know, I had a friend,

his nickname was chicken.

And so I was like, what?

Cause yeah, I thought he was hungry.

And I had this really strange guy in the back, raised his hand.

Can I share something?

I'm like, yeah, what?

Well, it could also mean you guys are ready to eat your friend and we're

like, he, he's not married for sure.

Right?

Like there's something up with him.

. So it went from confusion about what's ready to eat to cannibalism