In this episode, Tim Seymour sits down with Deb Halliday and Jason Withers to unpack the highlights from ProfitConUK 25, held at the iconic Chartered Accountants Hall in London.

From Mike Michalowicz’s inspiring Profit First keynote to Ron Baker’s game-changing take on the subscription business model, the event was bursting with fresh ideas and practical strategies for accountants, bookkeepers and coaches from Carl Richard, while Richard McCann reminded us of the resilience needed to thrive in business and life.

Packed with takeaways and real-world insights, this conversation captures the energy, collaboration, and transformative potential of ProfitConUK. Whether you attended or not, you’ll walk away inspired to reimagine your practice and embrace the future of advisory.

Welcome to Profit first beyond the Book, a podcast that takes you beyond the book with Profit first brought to you by Tim Duncan and the rest of the Profit first professionals UK and Ireland.

Foreign.

So we're still living on the crest of a way full of energy and enthusiasm and excitement from Profitcon UK 25 that we held very recently in September in London.

So joining me today are Jason and Deb, as usual.

How are you both?

Great, thanks.

Yeah, yeah, good here.

Tim.

Sorry, I.

That was my fault.

I just asked you both the question at the same time without giving you the opportunity of who was going to speak.

So my, my fault.

There's one for the blooper blooper squad at Christmas, I'm sure.

Anyway, so.

We'Ve come back from profitcon, which I thought was amazing.

I was so pleased with how well it went.

Big shout out to Duncan Lloyd for what he arranged there and Harry put everything together for us.

So I, I just thought that we could kind of have a chat about what we took away from profitcon, so, so the people that perhaps didn't go will can understand what it's all about and why perhaps they should probably come along next time and why they should probably be in our world as well.

So first of all, the venue.

I can't, can't move on without mentioning the venue.

So Deb, we were at the Chartered Accountants Hall.

What, what was your thoughts on the actual venue itself?

Spectacular, really, wasn't it?

I mean, I love the.

I can't remember which one it was.

Was it the small main reception or whatever it was, but it was stained glass windows and the ambiance there was just incredible.

When you really knew that you're in the City of London, right in the heart of City of London, all that history.

I loved it.

I mean that's home, home from home for me.

Yeah, perfect.

Yeah, I am, I have to say, I thought a very impressive venue for a traditional accounting body, let's say.

Yeah, tremendous venue, as you say, steeped in that kind of city history and feeling, but also great space, you know, the fact there were the connecting rooms that people could sort of break out into for tea, coffee and so on and lunchtime.

Yeah, really, really impressive venue, I thought for this year.

The other thing that I'd really quite like was the traditional nature of it.

And then clearly in pure profit first mode, we're all talking about the future, but there's that kind of.

We're steeped in the tradition of the whole accounting and finance piece and then we're like going, yeah, let's talk about some other forward looking things which I just think is an interesting sort of juxtaposition on the whole thing.

But.

That is, there is quite a contrast there, isn't it?

It's like, yeah, love the building, fantastic architecture.

But yeah, we don't do it like, like you're telling us to do it, we do it a slightly different way, which kind of leads us on quite nicely, you know, because, you know, we have four keynote speakers there.

But I think we have to start with the man himself.

I mean Mike, Mike Michalovic was as always his usual engaging, energetic, fun but educational self on stage, wasn't they?

And he, and he, and he did his presentation about profit first and he linked it in with the Money Habits which is coming out in January, which is more about personal finance.

So what were your thoughts?

So Jason, we'll come to you first.

What were your thoughts on Mike, you know, and how Mike came across?

So I mean I've obviously had the privilege of seeing Mike speak a number of times now, but I think one thing always remains true to me.

He makes everything he talks about so relatable and he approaches it as being a human being like everybody else.

Not someone who has authored and sold millions and millions of books and transformed businesses around the world.

Just as natural as it comes, there's no pretense, the delivery is always engaging, the topic is always on point.

I, I just think he makes it a thorough, thoroughly enjoyable experience for people to actually pay attention and listen to him.

And I think that particularly for, for some of the new members that were with this year that were actually sat on his table during the day, it's definitely one of the pieces of feedback that I got.

It's like he's just Mike, he's quite fun, you know, it's like all the things you don't expect.

But how he translates that into being totally engaging on a stage, in the moment, you know, in totally in his own zone, is just brilliant to watch, I think.

So what did I think of Mike?

Is that what you're going to ask me, Tim?

Utterly entertaining, full of knowledge.

Yes, it was exactly.

He is just Mike, isn't he?

I always say to people when I recommend any of his books, particularly Prophet, first listen, find the audiobook, go on to audible and listen to his books because he is just, he puts his practical and extensive knowledge into such an entertaining format because he's just human and he is not an accountant, he's not from finance background.

So he's as you say, he's just Mike, isn't it?

So it's a non stuffy and very entertaining presentation set of skills that he has and it's, it, it's really relatable and I thoroughly enjoy listening to anything he's got to say.

Whether it's informal, whether it's on the stage, whether it's on an audiobook.

I think he's highly, highly engaging and that's why he's so popular.

Yeah.

And it's so good at what he does.

So he just relates to the, to the normal businessman, doesn't he?

Rather than finance books, do we really want to listen to finance books?

Not really.

Will I listen to anything Mike McCallowicz has to say?

Absolutely.

I'm glued to it.

So yeah, absolutely fantastic.

I think one of the other things can I just actually add on to something that Deb picked up on there.

I think his ability to be in front of those people and exhibit those moments of self effacing humor.

There is absolutely zero pretense and I think it is one of those moments that makes it thoroughly engaging.

There is that element of it not being super stuffy, 100% polished.

It's like it is totally in the moment, live real.

It is as it is.

And I think there is, there's a big lesson that a lot of us could take away from that in terms of how we actually think about conducting ourselves with each other within the profit first community, with clients, prospects, all of those kind of things.

How we show up and how we actually show.

We don't have to be pinstripe suit people, you know.

And I understand that's like an image from 20 years ago now, but I think that there are those moments where actually being natural, being in a room and doing business with people that you actually want to do business with not because of necessarily how they behave, how they dress, how they enunciate every word.

It's like there is something very real and natural about his delivery and about his behavior.

Certainly when he's with us as a community, when we're lucky enough to have him with us.

But also how he then plays that out on stage as well.

But it's like the most natural thing in the world to see him do it.

It's so him.

Yeah, agreed.

He, he was really.

He improvised at the very start, didn't he?

Because there was a comment from, from Carl.

I think the car was speaking about football and soccer.

And so he got the, he got the, the chart, didn't he?

And he bought it onto the stage and he drew A football.

And he drew an American football.

And he was making the joke about a difference between the American language and English language.

And, and you knew that had just come off cuff.

He hadn't planned that out.

That was just, oh, yeah, I've just seen him talking about football.

I'm gonna, I'm gonna just elaborate on that.

And I think that goes to show the skill of being able to just stand there and just deliver a message, make it humorous.

But also there was a point to the whole part of that, that he bought in later on and, and started to incorporate it with profit first.

But I can honestly tell you, I know, I know you've both had a chance to spend time in Mike now over the last few years as well, and obviously myself and Duncan have.

He genuinely is such a genuine guy.

He genuinely wants all business owners to be successful.

And when you chat to him away from everybody else, it comes across in everything he says.

You know, he's not, look at me, look what I've done.

He's far from that.

He's very quiet, very calm, quite happy to sit in the background.

But, but he's also fun to be around and he generally does mean for people to be successful.

And I think if, if you haven't read his books, it's such a great place to start.

If you run a business, if you run an accountancy and bookkeeping practice, you have to read his books without a shadow of a doubt.

You, you'd be a fool not to.

You really would.

But for any business owner, you know, read his books, you know, just start, we would always say start with profit first.

But, you know, do you know what?

There's so much value from all the other books.

Start where you want and just work through them because it's fantast you.

And then to get to hear him on stage and, and sit at the back of the room watching him deliver his, his presentation about profit first, which every time is slightly different.

There's always a different twist or a different angle that he comes at it from.

I, I, I never tire from, from watching Mike on stage and listening to him talking about profit first and the money habits now.

So it's fantastic.

So it is a bit glitchy.

So if there's a couple of pauses, I do apologize, but we'll just keep on rolling and we' so who, who should we talk about next?

I, I think we have to talk about Ron Baker.

Ron Baker was a guest on this podcast previously as well.

Obviously known for moving people from hourly pricing away from timesheets into the value pricing model.

That's, that's what he was originally known for his book, you know, Time's Up Etc but now very clear, talking about the subscription business model which is, it's not just a pricing strategy and we know, we've talked about this on a previous podcast, it's actually a business model.

So there's a very big difference into how that, how that works.

He also talked about how the sort of, you know, over the sands of time and I probably got this wrong but we had going back to our agricultural times, going back to producing goods, to then becoming service based businesses, to then thinking about creating value and then creating transformations and I may have missed something off that like I can visualize what he put up on a screen but I can't remember the exact terminology.

So you know, you two might, might have more to add to that.

But I find him so interesting.

You can't not sit and be engaged with him when he's delivering because he's highly intelligent.

But he does it in a nice slow way that allows you to try and process what he's talking about before it goes on to the next stage.

But I'm going to come to you first, Deb.

What did you think about Ron?

You know, how did you feel listening to him?

He spoke twice, didn't he?

He did.

I was blown away to be honest because it's very rare that you hear somebody talk about such a top level view of what's happening in economy and as you say like the agricultural to the products to service value and experience.

And I think it was then transformational.

Yeah, but how we're evolving as a species in trans the transactional value that we're giving to each other and it's very, very rare that you, that I've come across somebody that can talk at such a high, high view level in layman's terms and make it so understandable.

Sometimes it's a real hard struggle to get through a book or a presentation at that kind of level that it just all completely made sense.

As soon as you put that diagram up you could just see it, couldn't you?

And it was like this is where we're heading.

So to have be in the room and have a presentation from somebody that can actually tell you the future if you like, was really, really inspiring and really exciting really because it means that you don't have to just keep reinventing the wheel because you're not just trying to regurgitate what you're doing and package it differently.

It's Actually a completely different model that we're working towards and it's, it increases in, in value each time.

So, so yeah, I thought it was amazing.

I thought it was fantastic.

So if I can implement just a fraction of what he talked about, I'll be streaks ahead of what I would have been otherwise.

So, yeah, loved it.

I think, I think for me, I really, I really zeroed in on, on where he was talking about this transformation economy.

And I think one of the reasons for that is I've used the transformation word in my coaching for years and it's not to say, oh, look at that, ahead of the curve.

It's actually an endorsement actually of a lot of the things that we talk about within the Profit first community.

And as you say, through that value pricing piece, certainly when I certified, value pricing was very much the focus of attention.

I would argue it's, I don't feel it's, it's related to me in quite the same way as those with accounting and bookkeeping practice perhaps and that sort of model about, about thinking how they, they trade and do business.

But the transformation piece, I'm, I'm sort of sitting there going, oh my word, here is a very high level intellectual guy talking about this and endorsing 100 the idea that this is where every thing is headed.

And I think the other thing for me about that was the idea that there was no doubt in my mind he's 110% committed to the idea that the transformation economy is where we are all going or where we need to be headed.

For sure, there wasn't like a, here's a bit of a theory and maybe it is, maybe it isn't.

It's like he's all in.

And I think actually for people, as you say, who have made their name in a, in an area with a process, with an idea, whatever it might be, that again, I think is, it's a great example to me of that sort of the yin and yang of being in that very traditional room that we were in, actually listening to some real future thinking, ideas, opportunities, considerations, how we frame things, how we think about holding conversations, how we think about the outcomes for ourselves and for our clients.

I think.

And one of the other things that struck me was I was speaking at a local business event the following day and one of the things that really struck me about the day as a whole on the Monday with the speakers of Profit Con was the ideas were big, they were transformational.

They were things that really made you think about who you are, how you do what you do, where you're going in the future.

And at that local level, I was suddenly very conscious of how transactional everything was.

It was very much in the moment.

Here's the thing, here's how we do a podcast, here's how we launch a thing, and here's what you do and here's eight steps to this thing.

Very transactional in its nature.

And I think one of my big takeaways actually from ProfitCon this year is we need to be in the room with people who are those relative light years ahead of us in terms of where these bigger ideas are going because we, we don't necessarily see it or feel a lot of it in day to day life necessarily.

But I would also piggyback that with the idea how people in the profit first WhatsApp group in the community have been talking about a lot of the things that came up in that talk.

How do we do this?

Who's thought about that?

Have you read this?

Where are you going with this?

It's like it has created a real spark of pushing people forward in that sort of afterglow of profit con, actually.

So, you know, it's not as if people have sat there and sort of gone, oh, that was interesting, and then moved on with their life.

It's actually, it's really captured them at a level and that.

That's powerful within, within the group.

I think so, Yeah.

I think highly impactful sessions from Ron and I think this idea of the transformation economy.

Yeah, that is really going to shift some minds, I think, going forwards and, and how we show up and do business.

Yeah.

And I.

It's interesting that you mentioned the members and the energy, you know, repeating what they've learned from the day.

We'll come back to profit from the whole event shortly.

I want to move.

And on the next day, the workshop was all about Mike's search program, which is, you know, in, in layman's terms is about niching and if you're niche in your business and you're serving certain parts of an industry or certain industries is going to really help you engage with a subscription business model that Ron taught us the day before.

So there was a real link between what people learn on Monday into the members only workshop we delivered on the Tuesday.

So I just wanted to highlight that and let's talk about that workshop for a little while and then we'll go back to the other keynote speakers later on in the conversation.

So Cindy Thomason, who wrote Profit first for E Commerce businesses and she came over last year to Visit us at ProfitCon.

And she bought with her, you know, half a dozen, eight, I think it was eight or nine other American Profit first professionals.

So, you know, Profit first is a worldwide, you know, it's globally known and it's successful worldwide.

I think 1.4 million people have read the book worldwide.

You know, we're just one of those people.

So just three of us on this call that out of that 1.4 million that have read the book.

Book.

Cindy read the book.

She, she took it into her own e commerce business which she had niched.

So, so she's a, a bookkeeping accountancy firm that specialized within E commerce and her business has grown dramatically since niching specifically and since incorporating profit first into the business.

And since then she's written her own book about it.

John Briggs was also one of the American PFPs.

He's written profit first for Micro Gyms, you know.

So again he's niched into this specific area by niching which I know so many accounts and bookkeepers are nervous about, slightly against, have a lot of resistance about.

But if you want to deliver that subscription based model and make your life so much easier and have a business that's going to serve you and serve your clients, there's a great opportunity here.

So the Niche workshop.

Deb, what, what were your, what were your takeaways from that?

Did you enjoy it?

Did you, what did you take from it?

Yeah, I loved it.

I really enjoy the fact that Cindy presented it and taught us because she's lived it and she is living it and it's really, you can see how she's, it's working for her.

One of the aspects that I took, that hadn't really dawned on me before was we always think about niching as in how you can be an expert in that area in that sector and therefore help your clients.

But actually from your own practice point of view, and I'm talking from a bookkeeping accountancy practice, it would, it allowed her to train all her team on just one business sector and then be able to, how did she phrase it?

I can't shuffle them as you needed.

So if one was away on holiday or for whatever reason, somebody else just took over that account for that period of time.

There was no, oh, I'm not sure about that industry or how those transactions are processed.

It was because they all worked in the same industry, they're all working the same software and they all understood their client sector software.

So that to me was like, well, of course, you know, it's, it's you could just shuffle them around rather than thinking, oh, now who can I, who's got that experience that I'm not going to drop in any service level if I put a temporary person on for that, for that client?

Because they're all doing the same, they're all working the same software.

And she had quite a, quite a clever structure was with this is the software that we use and if you're not using, if the clients aren't using or potential clients aren't using that software or those systems, then we're not the right fit because this is our model and this is what we're experts in.

So it was either a case of client change and adapt if they want to work with her or, or they could be recommended another accountancy service.

So that for me was a real big takeaway because it just spun it on its head a little bit and made you realize actually from a practice point of view and your own business point of view, it streamlines everything.

And surely it's got to cut costs because if you're not having to train on all different types of software and all different types of synthesis systems that different sectors utilize, then it, you've just got to keep on top of the one tech stack.

That's it.

You know, and you can actually be ahead of the of the curve with that because you can be notified when any upcoming changes or upgrades to that software are happening.

So.

Yeah, and then you can advise your clients on that, on that aspect as well.

So I thought that was great.

Fantastic.

Really took a lot away from that.

I can actually remember you, you almost had it like a light bulb moment, didn't you?

Because we were sat on the same table, weren't we?

And you sort of said, you sort of took it in, take a breath when you heard it.

And then you explained to me in the break why you did that.

And it was really interesting for me because I didn't need to be at the front presenting or anything because Cindy was delivering it and Duncan was just, you know, making sure everything was running smoothly.

So it was really interesting from my perspective.

I was able to sit with our members and so when we had little exercises to do, I could talk to them and, and question, ask them questions to help them solve the problems they were trying to solve in their head.

Which, let's be honest, is resistance.

Most of it, most of the problems we have are resistance to change, you know, And a couple of our members were sat there going, oh, I'm not sure, not sure.

And by the time we'd finished the exercise and by the time Cynthia delivered another part, they were saying, oh, I think I could talk to these people, I think I could go down this route and look at this in as an industry.

And you know, and someone else was very resistant and said, well, what links with that, what links to that industry?

If you don't want to do it in that area, who serves that?

And then she came up with all these different sort of, you know, scenarios of people that serve the industry that she works in.

So I'm not sharing the details because obviously our members, you know, they're there, we have to have a bit of privacy and respect for their, you know, their learning and their, their thought processes moving forward.

But, but I, I find it really good to be a part of that and being able to sit there and listen and learn and take notes, but then also share my thoughts with the team.

So I really enjoyed it.

And then Jason, obviously you weren't there on the Tuesday because you were off delivering your own speech to a group of businesses, etc, which I understand went really well, but how do you feel about the whole niching topic?

If you've got any words of wisdom you can add in there.

I'm aware that you weren't able to join us in the workshop.

So I actually read Serge whilst I was away on holiday this year because I knew I wouldn't be there for the Tuesday session, so got ahead of that curve a little bit.

But I think one of the things I would take from it, I think is actually what Deb said and I would reinforce the idea, learning from someone who lives and breathes it and has the tangible outcomes to show for it when you go all in on that process.

And I think it's not been my choice.

I have historically enjoyed the variety of businesses that I've had the privilege of working with in different sectors, different mental challenges for me, applying profit first as a system and so on.

And that has appealed to me in my nature.

But I think for those that run a practice and undoubtedly for those who coach, the ability to have a very focused conversation both externally for clients and prospects and internally, as Deb's just highlighted there with staff, it should be an absolute no brainer.

It makes the marketing easier, it makes the messaging easier, it makes the training easier, it makes the return on ad spend better.

All of those things as they get dialed in and become more and more precise, makes it easier for us to find boundaries around again to Deb's point, well, if you don't use things in this way and you are not facing in this direction, we're probably not a fit, you know and I think actually there is that ability to learn how to say no that we all need to do a lot more of.

Actually that niching process actually makes that a much more straightforward and more natural positioning piece for us when we recognize people do not fit in a conversation.

So I mean as far as what I'm concerned, like business is hard enough anyway, like why make it more difficult?

So any of the things that you can do to give you that ability to have a singular style of conversation, a singular message, the ability to truly become an expert in a field, you know, from a credibility and authority point of view should be a no brainer, not the only way to do those things for sure.

But I think it can only but help and I think certainly within, within the UK environment for the Profit first members, those who have chosen to specifically niche.

Duncan, you know, as we know, you know, runs into two sectors but very specific, very focused has 100% helped him make that transition into a subscription pricing model.

So you know, I think as you say, bringing a lot of these ideas together in that way.

Yeah, I think it hasn't been my personal choice up to this point, but I totally respect and see the value in it, in how people could think about making it easier for themselves going forward.

Particularly for those who have, who have a desire to scale a business beyond themselves.

Teams of people, however that may work down the line, that ability to train and be known to be experts in a niche, 100% back the idea.

Yeah, absolutely.

And I think, I think it's important to understand it doesn't mean you don't serve other people if you don't want to, you know, but, but if we're talking about the subscription model and we're talking about niching in combination with that, it just makes sense to really focus in over time onto one specific area that you become an expert in.

None of this happens overnight, the same as same as Profit first change and everything in your business.

Yes it does, but it takes time.

You know, nothing happens within, you know, one week, two week, three weeks.

And these conversations all have to be had with people running the county, bookkeeping and coaching businesses because there is opportunities there for them to learn about the Surge program and learn more about the subscription model as well as obviously Profit first, which we're always going to be talking about.

Okay, so thanks for sharing your views on that.

And we're going to go back to the main event on the Monday which was open to not just members but also non members.

I also want to highlight that we were, we were really highly supported once again by Zero.

So Zero supported all of our events every year so far.

We even held one event in their HQ at Milton Keynes which was fantastic that they were able to support us in that way.

So they supported us again.

A2X gave us a lot of support for Profitcon UK 25 as the Lexus from Air Manual, as did Nikolai Naylor of Intelligent Outsourcing.

We've also got Andrea from Money Squirrel and then we have Curtis and Nexus which everyone know Nexus is Santasker Grinley.

So we really everybody's support and partnering up with us for our events.

And I've got to also give a shout out to Ashley who turned up on his way to Accountants Manchester.

So he's come from Devon via London to go to Manchester.

So he went massively out of his way to spend a few hours at ProfitCon with us and we really appreciate that as well.

So I just wanted to give a shout out to everybody who's who supported us on our journey.

My favorite, and I'm gonna say this unashamedly, obviously Mike is, Mike is the man.

Ron Baker was amazing.

But Richard McCann, Richard McCann was fantastic.

For me I, I really did get a lot from, from just talking to him, watching him, listening to him, the way that he was going up and down the stage excitedly and, and at one point he stopped after being quite crazy for a while and he went I'm adhd.

Did you know that?

And I just thought that was so like apt that he brought that in to the conversation because you know, he, his story is phenomenal.

His life story is.

You just can't understand, you can't kind of grab the concept of what he must have gone through as a 5 year old boy to then getting into trouble, prison, etc.

Etc.

And then writing a book and turning his life around completely and now delivering such value and making such an impact for people in a positive way I think is testament to him as a person and I really love listening to his story.

But his presentation in the afternoon in the workshop we did of creating videos was so much fun and everybody took part.

You know, we, we talk about, I'm going to come to you in a minute, both of you and ask your thoughts on Richard.

But we, we often talk about the need to take action on what you've learned and Richard asked all of us to go away after teaching us how to do some, you know, teaching us some presentation skills on video.

He Asked us to go away and record some videos.

He didn't think anyone was going to do it.

And then he was inundated with videos coming through onto his phone.

I think he was blown away.

And I think that shows the difference that a Profit first professional is coming compared to all the other accountants and bookkeepers out there.

And I mean that with no disrespect at all, by the way, but Profit first professionals take action, they learn something new and they do something about it.

And I think that was really highlighted at our event.

So I, I'll stop talking myself because I've talked quite a long time, as usual.

So, Jason, let's come to you first.

Richard McCann.

What, what were your thoughts?

Oh, so there's, there's a couple of things for me about Richard.

Number one, I thought I'd had a pretty hard year on a personal level with a number of things that I would say, most of us would, would say we find challenging.

And then I'm sat there listening to a guy and you think the headline story is the headline story.

And then there is just layer after layer of these other things that he's contended within his life as well.

That really kind of made me sit up and think a bit.

Yep, okay, pity phase is over.

Time to get back to business and start getting on with things again.

I think there was a. I felt a lot of that.

However bad we think things are at a moment in time, they probably are to us as individuals.

And it feels hard and it feels deeply distressing and all of these other emotions that will feel around things.

But I think if nothing else, he showed not only can you bounce back, but you can bounce back bigger and better from those experiences.

And I think that's something that I very much took away on a personal level.

And I absolutely thank him for telling his story live on stage in the way he did around that the afternoon session, as you say, the people doing the videos now video I didn't do on the Monday afternoon, however, knowing that I was delivering a talk on Profit first the following day live to a room full of people.

I was paying super close attention to everything he said about the presentation skills part and actually got home probably about 10 o', clock, I think, on the Monday night and actually redid the front end of my presentation for the Tuesday morning on the basis of some of the tips and things that he'd given us.

Not, you know, massive wholesale changes, but just pieces of thinking about engagement, timing, structure, those sorts of things that actually, again, as you say, very easy to Take some very simple ideas and apply them to something.

And to be fair, this is a talk that I have delivered in Facebook groups as a group expert and so on for years.

It is what I would consider to be my signature talk if I get asked to do one.

And yet there was someone who had really made me sit up and think about how I was introducing the topic, how I was engaging people, how I used cadence, gesture, all of those sorts of ideas which I had a chance to try on Tuesday morning, which was fantastic.

So, yeah, a number of different lessons I would say I took away from him.

Some very practical in the moment, some of them of a more reflective nature, but absolutely, life is better for having listened to him talk on stage, you know, and demonstrate his skill and expertise.

For sure.

Yeah, I'd agree.

I was blown away by his talk.

I knew the story, obviously, but I didn't know it, how it related to him, and I didn't know that that's what we were.

We were going to be presented with.

So.

And for.

For me, one of the things was it had such a.

The trauma starting at age.

Well, probably below the age 5, but the big event happened at the age of 5.

And as a parent, I was always taught that you've got nature and nurture and your electrons are wired up until the age of seven and then, you know, your personality is pretty set.

But he has just overcome everything and he's turned everything into, what is it?

I can.

But more than I can, I will.

And he's.

He's spreading that message, which is incredible, really.

And he's so good at it.

I mean, I know he's done over 3,000 presentations, so he.

And he didn't start really good at it, but he's obviously got a real talent there and I thought it was really, really powerful.

The presentation skills, I thought were amazing because you.

I mean, I'm very old school and it was very much presentation skills.

Tell them what you're going to tell them, tell them and then tell them what you told them.

And it blew that out the water really, didn't it?

I mean, it just had everything going from eye contact to delivery to stance to emotion.

Yeah, I thought it was fantastic.

Copious note.

I've written copious notes.

So, yeah.

And got some of his books on order.

So, yeah, so, yeah, really, really enjoyed it so much.

I was talking all about it as soon as I came home and watched one of the documentaries on his life as soon as I got home.

So, yeah, yeah, really, really impactful.

So great.

Yeah, I Think.

I think actually, Tim, Sorry, I was just going to say, just picking up on some of the Deb preference there again, that I can, but it's not I can, it's I can and I will.

And I think actually tying that back into what you were just saying about how as a community we receive information, the calls that we do with members on a Monday morning, combination of education, masterminding to a degree, sharing experiences and so on, and learning from each other in that way, I think gives us a weekly jolt of I can.

Other people are telling me they are experiencing this, they're doing it, they're delivering.

These things are possible.

I need to go and try that, and I will implement.

And, you know, I mean, even in the course of a session this Monday, you know, we can see in the group people have taken action.

You know, not necessarily the minute we finish the call, but people have taken action.

And I think that message that came from Richard was, yeah, I can, but I will.

And I think that is something that we perhaps have unconsciously ingrained amongst ourselves.

And it's great to see it reinforced with that depth and I'll say, level of story that he has to bring that to the fore as an example of that.

Yeah.

Highly inspirational.

Yeah, I think there's a.

There's something we could add on to that.

I can, I will.

I've done it.

Wouldn't it be great to have that on the end?

I've done it, you know, because that's the bit, isn't it?

And, and I think, you know, before profitcon happened, you know, Duncan spoke quite often about what was going to happen at the event and how it was going to pan out.

And he, he said, and he guaranteed and promised people that they will leave profitcon with actionable steps to take.

And that's exactly what's happened.

So he delivered, in every sense of it from what he promised was going to happen.

And I think that's.

That was the, that that is the differentiation that we've got from all of the other events you can go to.

And that's not being dismissive because we go to all the other events as well.

And we, and we get, we get stuff from it and we learn and we meet people and we enjoy our day out.

But ProfitCon takes it to another level for me.

And if you can leave somewhere from spending the day in a room with people, you know, Mike McCallovitz, Ron Baker, Richard McCann, Carl Reader, Profit First Professionals as well, you know, if you can spend a day with these, with these people and Come away with such knowledge and, and actionable steps to take.

Why wouldn't you want to be in that room?

You know, that's how I look at it.

Carl reader as well, of course.

So Carl was there as well.

And Carl did a, did a keynote presentation in the morning.

Carl's a really interesting person as well.

He, he, I can remember him telling me part of his story on the podcast and also partner's presentation.

So I may be mixed with what he said where, you know, because you just remember him, him saying what he said.

But he started off as a YTS hairdresser, which wasn't for him, and he ended up going into the accountancy world.

But he, but he's not a traditional accountant.

And what he actually, what he did was he learned by talking to his clients.

So, so he had a list of clients to talk to.

So he used to go and talk to and ask them questions and ask and ask and ask and seek information and find out and find out and use that knowledge to better serve them better and then be able to serve other clients better.

And so he's quite, he's quite open about.

If you're not sure what to do when the council bookkeeping business talk to your clients, learn more about their business, learn what their problems are, learn where they need help, learn how you can solve their problems because that's adding value and that's being a true advisor.

And so, yeah, I, I've taken that away from, from what Carl spoke about previously.

What, what, what takeaways did you have from Carl's presentation?

Going to see who goes first now.

I never said a name.

Did I.

Go first?

If you like, yeah.

I found it really, really fascinating, actually, and really inspiring.

So much so.

There's so much information packed in that I was, I was not overwhelmed, but I was trying to absorb the information.

And as I was absorbing the information, more information was coming.

So when I got loads and loads of notes, but when I look what the things that stand out without me consulting my notes was.

Jomo, the joy of missing out, really focus on what you want to do and stop having fomo, which is fear of missing out.

Take pride or pleasure in if a shiny object is shouting at you that actually you stand back and you think, do I actually need that?

Is that going to take me off, off track?

Is that going to help propel me forward?

Or can I actually take pleasure in the joy of missing out?

Because actually that's, that's just going to distract me.

And that for me was because I love the Next tech.

I love the things that are, that are new and innovative and what's coming next and what's gonna.

What's gonna help you.

And before you know it, you've got all these different tech stacks that you can only ever use one at a time, particularly, or, or get really good at using one at a time.

So, yeah, I, I thought that was, that was really clever, actually.

Jomo.

So, yeah, that stuck with me.

Yeah.

Tayson.

Yeah, I think that's.

I think it's a message which is.

Which needs more airtime.

That joy of missing out.

I think our ability to consume in the modern era is immense and we can get nothing done as a result.

And I think actually finding some boundaries, finding the right things.

It's like, I'm quite clear between you and I, Deb.

It's like if I want to know something about software and apps, which I rarely do, like, I will come and talk to you about it.

There's no way I'm going to research it.

You've got all the knowledge, you've done all the research already.

So it's just not my thing on any level.

So I think representing and understanding where our strengths lie in these different areas is important.

And not feeling.

I don't feel like I'm missing out around the software piece on any level.

So I think it's.

Recognizing where we need to show up for the things that we are good at, interest us, we can deliver on, versus the things that are not necessarily in a wheelhouse is incredibly important.

So my, my one thing that I will, I will offer up from Carl's talk was this idea of, of taking aim and being prepared to narrow that focus over a period of time.

Just a very simple way that he sort of explained it.

You know, the image on the screen behind him at the time.

Dartboard.

Throw the first one.

Maybe I'll hit the board, maybe I won't.

But it gives me a line of sight, makes me think about trajectory, where I'm going, direction.

Okay, let's throw another dart.

Oh, okay, I'm on the dartboard now.

Okay, let's throw another one, maybe a bit closer to the bullseye.

It's like this process where I think we, and certainly within the accounting and bookkeeping profession, I think we're frightened to think about taking the next step and making a mistake, because we've been brought up to think everybody thinks we get the answer 100% right all the time.

And there's millions of cases where that's not the case.

And I think one of the things again bringing it back into the Profit first community.

I think again following on from ProfitCon, following on from the Monday morning calls this week we have seen people throw a first start and that I think it's like it might land people might like share or comment on the post, they might not.

But people have thrown the dart this week and I think that as a, that idea of building up consistency, getting used to the idea, I don't know it all but there are people here who know a lot more than me.

I can learn from some of those people.

I'll be ahead of other people but I've got to try some of this stuff to start engaging and getting this message out into the world.

And that for me I think was one of the real reinforcing moments.

It's like it's okay to get stuff wrong.

You know, we have the, you know, fail fast and you know, fail again and all those kind of ideas but it actually takes a group of brave people to actually test whether or not they're going to fail or not or whether the thing will be a success.

What can they learn from that first art that was thrown.

And I think that for me particularly within this profit first community is something that we are getting better at as a group of people and we are finding ways to encourage people, help people get over some of those fears, give them some words, some stories, some language that will help them take that first step, throw that first dart to get them on that pathway to advisory.

It is a different skill to handling day to day compliance.

Transactional work for sure, slight shift in the brain but we've got to throw the first dart to open up that first conversation.

So again your point about asking and asking and asking those questions.

Site discovery calls.

I know whenever I do them it, it's I don't know, I was about to say 50 minutes, it's I don't know, 80 prospect talking 10 me filling in the gaps, pulling it back to how does profit first line up for this?

Okay, let's bring it together.

It's like the art is in the listening entirely.

But having that idea, I've got to keep asking the questions, I've got to keep digging.

I need some more information but I know what I'm going to do with information when I get it.

It's not going to make me procrastinate.

I know that I'm going to throw a dart when I've gathered that information.

So I love that.

I think very simple idea explained in a really clear way.

Highly relatable Again, and definitely something people can walk away and take action.

And 100% in the group people have been taking action this week.

So, yeah, great reminder of a really basic idea, but great reminder, delivered really well.

So, yeah, 100% behind that.

Funny, actually, because that you've reminded me.

When he was talking about the take aim and throw the dart, I thought, Tim, you're probably going to bring this up and talk about this.

That was exactly my strategy at shuffleboard the day before.

Electronic shuffleboard.

I had no idea at all how to play shuffleboard.

And I just stood there and I thought, okay, I've got this disc, puck, whatever you want to call it.

And I threw it, played it, whatever you want to call it.

It went far, too far off the board.

And I was just like, well, at least I've got a starting point.

I know how slippy the board is.

I know where it should be going.

Somebody who's going to explain to me the rules now because.

And I was last and last and last.

But actually the last game, I ended up being my best score yet.

So, yeah, so, yeah, yeah.

I don't think we.

I don't think we're talking about shuffleboard, are we, Tim?

I'm not entirely sure that my process of applying the thing I've just been talking about and eulogizing in the whole take home did me any favors whatsoever, actually.

Total failure to.

To take note of what had happened before and then improve tactic, strategy or anything else beyond that.

So, yeah, yeah, I have no desire to continue shuffleboard, to be honest, at this juncture, Deb, to be honest.

The.

The Art of the Shuffleboard evening was a social event for all of our guests to attend.

I think there was about 40 of us there and I just took one for the team by going last.

You know that this, what you do when you're hosting, you're just, you know, I thought I'd be very gentlemanly.

I'll be rubbish.

No, I. I actually did try to beat everybody I played against.

I lost every game.

But never mind.

It doesn't matter.

What, what happens when you fail.

You learn, don't you?

You learn.

Next time I see shuffleboard, I won't be last.

I'll learn and I'll find a way not to be last.

Do you know.

I think my strategy for that, Tim, is not to go with all the people that came to the social on the Sunday.

I think that probably gives me my best chance going forwards on that basis.

It was great, great fun, great fun.

And, and I think that, that it became a few days that we were able to spend with our members, in particular some of our partners that, that partnered up and sponsored us with our event.

And we're there on the day as well, you know, from, from the, the social on the Sunday to the ProfitCon event itself all day the Monday to a few of us having a few drinks after, to the, the Tuesday workshop, to us all then saying goodbye and, and, you know, and going back, back, back, back, back to our homes.

But like you said, the WhatsApp community is still pinging and pinging and pinging because everybody is still full of energy and excitement from profitcon, as am I, and as I know you both are as well.

So look, thank you so much for joining us today.

So for anyone who, who missed out on this and actually thinks, well, how do I get into this world of, of, you know, of being able to come to these places and take action on what I'm learning?

Well, the first place to start is the Profit first pathway.

So if you go onto Facebook, search up the Profit first pathway, you'll see our three smiling faces on the graphic.

You just need to hit to join and you just have to answer three very simple basic questions.

And once you've answered those and you agree to the rules, we'll allow you in and we can, we can get to know you more.

You can come on some of our course, come on some of our free sessions that we operate in there.

It gives you an introduction to what it's like being in the world of the Profit first professionals without having to commit to joining at that stage.

So that, that'll be what we'd like you to do.

Jason and Deb, thank you so much for joining me once again on the podcast.

Andrea's just going to end with one task for you both to do.

So I was going to do this at a 10, which is probably better, but I've just, I've just been reminded of, I used to watch the Saturday morning shows back in my younger days.

It might have been multicolored Swap shop, I'm not sure.

And they used to have people show the latest songs that were being released before they went into the charts and they used to have to say, hit or miss.

So the question is to you, hit or miss?

Profitcon UK 25 hit.

Absolute hit.

Yeah.

Unmissable.

There we go.

Thank you very much for joining us.

Thank you for joining us on our podcast today.

Profit first beyond.

The book was brought to you by the Profit First Professionals UK and Ireland team.

If you'd like to Find out More about Profit first or becoming a Profit first professional, head to our website profitfirstuk.co.uk.