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32. NBA All World, Newzoo 2022 Metaverse Trend Report
Episode 324th July 2022 • META Business • Holodeck Media
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In this episode, we discuss Niantic making an augmented reality location-based basketball game called NBA All World, Newzoo releasing its 2022 Trend Report that provides insights into the metaverse market, and so much more!

Episode 32 Keywords: Niantic, augmented reality, basketball game, NBA All World, Newzoo, 2022 Trend Report, metaverse market

Transcripts

Unknown:

Welcome to the metaphysics podcast. The

Unknown:

Metaverse and web three are bringing about the biggest

Unknown:

revolution since the internet itself. With your hosts Paul the

Unknown:

prophet Dawalibi And Jeff the juice Cohen. We will be bringing

Unknown:

you the latest Metaverse, business news and insight into

Unknown:

what it all means. The meta business podcast starts now.

Unknown:

From the

Paul Dawalibi:

boardroom to the metaverse. This is the meta

Paul Dawalibi:

business podcast. I am Paul the Prophet Dawalibi. I'm joined

Paul Dawalibi:

today by my friend and co host, Jeff the juice Cohen. For those

Paul Dawalibi:

of you who are new here, welcome to the official podcast in the

Paul Dawalibi:

metaverse what we do is we cover the most pressing, Metaverse,

Paul Dawalibi:

news and topics of the week. But we look at all of it through a

Paul Dawalibi:

business and C suite lens, we dissect, we analyze the business

Paul Dawalibi:

implications of everything happening in this industry. For

Paul Dawalibi:

our regular listeners. Thank you guys for tuning in every week.

Paul Dawalibi:

Thank you for all the love the five star ratings and reviews if

Paul Dawalibi:

you haven't left a review, go leave one if you haven't shared

Paul Dawalibi:

the podcast, Go share it. We read all the reviews. We

Paul Dawalibi:

appreciate all the love. Please, if you love the content, share,

Paul Dawalibi:

leave some kind words. It helps other people to find the podcast

Paul Dawalibi:

and we appreciate it. Jeff, how you doing this week?

Jeff Cohen:

I'm doing good. Doing good. PSA. Yeah, ma fizzy.

Jeff Cohen:

I'm actually closing on a house tomorrow in the real world.

Paul Dawalibi:

Yeah, I was gonna say is it Metaverse house or is

Paul Dawalibi:

it real?

Jeff Cohen:

House in the real world in New Jersey today? Oh,

Paul Dawalibi:

that's way less of an interesting investment

Paul Dawalibi:

than Metaverse real estate but

Jeff Cohen:

probably a little less volatile. Hopefully, I

Jeff Cohen:

think not likely to 100x but hopefully not likely to go to

Jeff Cohen:

zero.

Paul Dawalibi:

Is the question is your Is it near Snoop Dogg's

Paul Dawalibi:

house because that seems

Jeff Cohen:

very far from keep dogs is unfortunately, what will

Jeff Cohen:

hurt the value of the things that we're excited about it but

Jeff Cohen:

it is probably very far from

Paul Dawalibi:

meta versus any corollary i This may be a poor

Paul Dawalibi:

investment, I don't know. But it seems proximity to Snoop Dogg's

Paul Dawalibi:

house is the primary determinant of value in real estate is what

Paul Dawalibi:

we've learned. Now we've got so much to talk about. So let's

Paul Dawalibi:

jump into it. We have actually only a couple of stories today

Paul Dawalibi:

but they're a bit a bit one. As usual. We start with something a

Paul Dawalibi:

little bit fun and light, and that's me and chicken loser

Paul Dawalibi:

Niantic. However you want to pronounce it and call it a

Paul Dawalibi:

Pokemon Go style game, which is not surprising. That's what they

Paul Dawalibi:

do. But this one with a connection to professional

Paul Dawalibi:

basketball, NBA basketball. And so the headline here is Niantic

Paul Dawalibi:

NBA and the NBA which I think is the National Basketball players

Paul Dawalibi:

association. Team up for NBA all world. NBA all world is a first

Paul Dawalibi:

of its kind. It's not on the screen here. NBA all world is a

Paul Dawalibi:

first of its kind game that will place NBA fans into the real

Paul Dawalibi:

world metaverse. So Niantic announced a partnership with the

Paul Dawalibi:

NBA to create this original augmented reality game where

Paul Dawalibi:

it's free to play. Players can find challenge and compete

Paul Dawalibi:

against today's says NBA ballers in their neighborhoods, then

Paul Dawalibi:

recruit them to their team before proving themselves on the

Paul Dawalibi:

court. So it really sounds like Pokemon Go except instead of

Paul Dawalibi:

catching Pokemon you're catching NBA ballers, you're recruiting

Paul Dawalibi:

them. And I guess you duel other trainers like you wouldn't poke

Paul Dawalibi:

him on? I mean, Niantic had, has not I'm trying to think other

Paul Dawalibi:

than Pokemon Go has not really produced a massive hit recently.

Paul Dawalibi:

Is it sort of are they at the point where it's about white

Paul Dawalibi:

labeling and re skinning their existing, you know, franchises

Paul Dawalibi:

and, and this is AR You know, we cover mostly Metaverse stuff

Paul Dawalibi:

here, Jeff, but like does this fit into sort of way they

Paul Dawalibi:

phrased it in your mind where it says it'll place NBA fans into

Paul Dawalibi:

the real world. metaverse. Like, what do you think of that

Paul Dawalibi:

specific nomenclature?

Jeff Cohen:

It's interesting. I mean, they you make a great

Jeff Cohen:

point Niantic has tried to follow up their smash success

Jeff Cohen:

PokemonGo with a number of other games. Most notably, a Harry

Jeff Cohen:

Potter, who was called wizards unite, were actually ended up

Jeff Cohen:

failing, which is surprising is Harry Potter is a great IP.

Jeff Cohen:

Because they haven't been able to repeat the success of

Jeff Cohen:

PokemonGo. They have invested a lot into this AR engine. So

Jeff Cohen:

they've really kind of bet the company on this like AR quote

Jeff Cohen:

unquote, real world metaverse. And here recall we did the story

Jeff Cohen:

a few months back where they got a really big raise a big

Jeff Cohen:

valuation from coke to big tech. So yeah, I mean, I think It'll

Jeff Cohen:

be interesting to follow this one I think people, some people

Jeff Cohen:

who aren't maybe in the know on the data, forget people remember

Jeff Cohen:

PokemonGo was massive back in the summer of 2016. And you'll

Jeff Cohen:

hear about it that much now. But it's actually generating like

Jeff Cohen:

over a billion dollars of revenue, still annually. So it's

Jeff Cohen:

not like this company is struggling and starving and they

Jeff Cohen:

need a hit. They obviously want growth and they're looking to

Jeff Cohen:

replicate the success of Pokemon Go is still a very nice piece of

Jeff Cohen:

business, it'd be interesting to see what they do with the NBA

Jeff Cohen:

license. eBay is clearly a very international game. It's

Jeff Cohen:

probably the sport besides soccer that it does have the

Jeff Cohen:

biggest international presence. It's a sport that's done well

Jeff Cohen:

with video games, both on console PC as well as of course,

Jeff Cohen:

mobile with certain titles. Even in like the crypto metaphors

Jeff Cohen:

type world, the NBA Top Shot has had kind of a moment in the sun.

Jeff Cohen:

I don't believe this game to lose our knowledge or consent.

Jeff Cohen:

The article has any real crypto elements to it. But it does have

Jeff Cohen:

that collectible kind of metaphor. It has the metaverse

Jeff Cohen:

piece to it with the AR and it has the collectible piece with

Jeff Cohen:

capturing players. My prediction is that this probably won't be a

Jeff Cohen:

smash, it will definitely not be PokemonGo. But it probably will

Jeff Cohen:

be better than Harry Potter. And the reason why I say that is I

Jeff Cohen:

think with the Harry Potter universe, you just didn't have

Jeff Cohen:

that many characters to collect. But there's there's only like 10

Jeff Cohen:

major characters in Harry Potter. And that's probably

Jeff Cohen:

stretching it by like five characters. I understand.

Jeff Cohen:

There's a lot of lore, there's, there's hundreds of characters

Jeff Cohen:

in the universe that like let's be honest, there's 10 that

Jeff Cohen:

matter. Whereas at the NBA, there's already a massive

Jeff Cohen:

culture of people playing fantasy sports. That was the

Jeff Cohen:

Collectible Card angle, like you have a much bigger university

Jeff Cohen:

players collect. So I think that leads a little bit to more depth

Jeff Cohen:

in the game. Yeah, I think I think it will be moderately

Jeff Cohen:

successful, clearly not the next PokemonGo. But I think it will

Jeff Cohen:

do better than that. Because along with

Paul Dawalibi:

no, I mean, I can't disagree with any of it.

Paul Dawalibi:

where I want it to take this is just in the article. And I don't

Paul Dawalibi:

know if this is Niantic. I don't know if this is the journalist

Paul Dawalibi:

who wrote this. I don't know if it's a PR person who did a press

Paul Dawalibi:

release and use this. But I take serious issue with this this

Paul Dawalibi:

term. Real world metaverse. It's like calling something a for

Paul Dawalibi:

profit charity. Read like a real world meme. Like in my Am I

Paul Dawalibi:

wrong to say this doesn't exist. Like

Jeff Cohen:

my definition is exactly what we debated about

Jeff Cohen:

when the when they did the race because that's like their big

Jeff Cohen:

buzzword. I hate it.

Paul Dawalibi:

I hate it. I like it. It's so cheap. And I it

Paul Dawalibi:

doesn't make sense. Right? Like I get what they're trying to do.

Paul Dawalibi:

They're trying to cram their little AR game into something

Paul Dawalibi:

that's Metaverse, which is much sexier than like little AR game.

Paul Dawalibi:

But it's disingenuous, it's really disingenuous. I do think

Paul Dawalibi:

AR has the potential to create meta versus small n. Right?

Paul Dawalibi:

Like, if you have if you have AR that's just so incredibly

Paul Dawalibi:

immersive and layers on top of the real world, a completely

Paul Dawalibi:

alternate universe that you can interact with. That's one thing,

Paul Dawalibi:

but like staring down at your phone and seeing a little

Paul Dawalibi:

basketball guy like you know what I mean? Like this is, this

Paul Dawalibi:

is a bit of a stretch to call this real world Metaverse,

Paul Dawalibi:

right? Like it lacks basically all the elements of the

Paul Dawalibi:

metaverse. So interesting story NBA, at least they're trying

Paul Dawalibi:

things gotta give them credit to your point that, you know, they

Paul Dawalibi:

have tried a number of things in gaming and metaverse. And, you

Paul Dawalibi:

know, they're they're better than most of the traditional

Paul Dawalibi:

sports leagues, the Meet sports leads, in terms of trying

Paul Dawalibi:

things. So kudos to them on that. But I struggled. I don't

Paul Dawalibi:

think this is going to be a success. But I mean, I'm not a

Paul Dawalibi:

basketball fan. So it has no appeal to me. And I think the

Paul Dawalibi:

people that disappeared like my antics audience, I think trends

Paul Dawalibi:

younger than they expect or think. And I suspect that's why

Paul Dawalibi:

Harry Potter didn't work because even Harry Potter is sort of

Paul Dawalibi:

like 1314 Plus, right?

Unknown:

I think it's like 30 rolls.

Paul Dawalibi:

That's actually true. And, I mean, the average

Paul Dawalibi:

age of even an NBA fan is like high 40s or low 50s, something

Paul Dawalibi:

like that. So I don't know if they want to walk around with

Paul Dawalibi:

their phones collecting players. But we'll see. All right, let's

Paul Dawalibi:

I want to get to the meat and potatoes. And it's really this

Paul Dawalibi:

one article that I think we're going to spend a little bit of

Paul Dawalibi:

time on here. And this was a report that came out from

Paul Dawalibi:

Newzoo. And the title of the report was the metaverse,

Paul Dawalibi:

Blockchain gaming and NF T's nav gaiting the internet's uncharted

Paul Dawalibi:

waters. And I think what would be fun Jeff is to go through

Paul Dawalibi:

the, they have an executive summary with 10 big takeaways.

Paul Dawalibi:

And they call this the key global trends that are currently

Paul Dawalibi:

shaping the metaverse, Blockchain gaming and NFT space.

Paul Dawalibi:

And I think it would be fun to go through each one of these.

Paul Dawalibi:

And you and I see if we agree or disagree on on this being one of

Paul Dawalibi:

the key global trends or how they've articulated it, right.

Paul Dawalibi:

It could be we disagree that this is a trend altogether, or

Paul Dawalibi:

it could be that we disagree that maybe they got the details

Paul Dawalibi:

wrong. So let me start with the first one here, which says big

Paul Dawalibi:

tech and brand involvement. That's the headline. And it says

Paul Dawalibi:

consumers spend increasingly more time in virtual worlds, and

Paul Dawalibi:

successful brands follow them. As a result, consumer facing

Paul Dawalibi:

companies will be forced to develop a Metaverse strategy to

Paul Dawalibi:

stay connected with their future customers and remain relevant.

Paul Dawalibi:

Since there's no single right approach to tackling the

Paul Dawalibi:

metaverse. Different brands have approached it in different ways

Paul Dawalibi:

in distinct ways. Now, these can range from IP activations inside

Paul Dawalibi:

virtual worlds and acquiring virtual land NF T's to outright

Paul Dawalibi:

m&a S. What do you think of big tech and brand involvement?

Paul Dawalibi:

Cheek level truth?

Jeff Cohen:

I definitely. It has been a trend and I also

Jeff Cohen:

understand that new to you know, this is their audiences.

Jeff Cohen:

They're, you know, they sell data to these brands, so I

Jeff Cohen:

understand why they're pitching this. However, I'll disagree in

Jeff Cohen:

the sense that I think the most interesting companies in

Jeff Cohen:

Metaverse in the future will be Metaverse first companies,

Jeff Cohen:

similar to how the biggest companies on the internet or

Jeff Cohen:

largest companies that were formed internet first it like I

Jeff Cohen:

think it's not going to like the biggest retailer in the

Jeff Cohen:

metaverse will be someone like Nike who comes into the

Jeff Cohen:

metaverse and is selling you know, using their brand from

Jeff Cohen:

real world from the physical world in the metaverse. It will

Jeff Cohen:

be Metaverse first. So that's my rebuttal, if you want to call

Jeff Cohen:

it.

Paul Dawalibi:

It's an interesting take like there are

Paul Dawalibi:

there are counter examples in the web to Dotto world, right

Paul Dawalibi:

like Walmart did very well post internet to go online and sell

Paul Dawalibi:

online, you could argue it's because they bought jet.com And

Paul Dawalibi:

like they made acquisitions that I agree with Newzoo that this is

Paul Dawalibi:

a key trend, right? brands will need to go where attention is

Paul Dawalibi:

going. But I agree with you that, first of all, not all the

Paul Dawalibi:

traditional brands are going to do it right. And I think they

Paul Dawalibi:

are at a disadvantage if they don't free themselves from the

Paul Dawalibi:

trappings of real world kind of strategies, constraints etc.

Paul Dawalibi:

Like I do think there needs to be a rethink, in terms of

Paul Dawalibi:

engagement in terms of attention in terms of commerce in in a

Paul Dawalibi:

capital and metaverse. So I don't know if this means we

Paul Dawalibi:

agree or disagree with the statement. It's a little bit of

Paul Dawalibi:

a put I'll give it one of these like, you know, mostly agree.

Paul Dawalibi:

But there's some subtlety that I think Newzoo has missed here.

Paul Dawalibi:

All right, let's go to number two Roblox a peek into the

Paul Dawalibi:

future of virtual worlds. So it says here, gaming has

Paul Dawalibi:

transitioned towards multilayered experience viewing,

Paul Dawalibi:

playing socializing. That's what they call multiplayer, Roblox,

Paul Dawalibi:

one of the most popular games. And what they're saying is by

Paul Dawalibi:

analyzing the success of Roblox, they can draw important lessons

Paul Dawalibi:

and basically draw conclusions on the direction of virtual

Paul Dawalibi:

worlds. So what they're saying is Roblox only allows developers

Paul Dawalibi:

to retain 25% of the revenue they generate. And they think

Paul Dawalibi:

these pay structures will evolve and it's something to pay

Paul Dawalibi:

attention to, considering that meta got a bunch of bad

Paul Dawalibi:

publicity for their 50% Take rate and Roblox take 75% So, is

Paul Dawalibi:

Roblox really kind of the canary in the coal mine that I'm

Paul Dawalibi:

paraphrasing, you know, what they're saying? Do you agree or

Paul Dawalibi:

disagree with this, Jeff?

Jeff Cohen:

Well, again, I agree that I think there's there's

Jeff Cohen:

definitely nuance I mean, Roblox has been it early. One of the

Jeff Cohen:

early best examples of the metaverse, I think particularly

Jeff Cohen:

did what they do, right is the user generated content piece

Jeff Cohen:

that could both agree that the future at the metal like the

Jeff Cohen:

future capital, and Metaverse is going to have a large amount of

Jeff Cohen:

user generated content? Because frankly, that's how the real

Jeff Cohen:

world the real physical world operates. It's user generated,

Jeff Cohen:

right? If I walk outside and throw a rock and you know, break

Jeff Cohen:

a car window, it is it is I've done that now.

Paul Dawalibi:

Crime is now user generated content I want to hear

Paul Dawalibi:

from real world lawyer use this as a defense.

Jeff Cohen:

I think it's an important part for the capital

Jeff Cohen:

and Metaverse and it's user generated because that's how the

Jeff Cohen:

real world is It's not like I walk outside, there's a bunch of

Jeff Cohen:

NPCs walking around with no autonomy, but that's not our

Jeff Cohen:

physical presence is so that to get to the metaverse that can't

Jeff Cohen:

be paced. All this part about the take rates. I'm not sure how

Jeff Cohen:

relevant that is to the future of the metaverse. I do think

Jeff Cohen:

partake rates will come down because, you know, people people

Jeff Cohen:

react to incentives. And I think those will eventually, if the

Jeff Cohen:

metaverse becomes such a singularity that everyone's in

Jeff Cohen:

one place, the owner of that platform isn't going to need to

Jeff Cohen:

take anything more than a minuscule minuscule fee off that

Jeff Cohen:

each transaction because they're basically getting a small

Jeff Cohen:

percentage of the entire world. So you wouldn't need a mascot.

Jeff Cohen:

Yeah,

Paul Dawalibi:

this one is like, I agree with the headline,

Paul Dawalibi:

Roblox is definitely a peek into the future of virtual worlds,

Paul Dawalibi:

that they're doing better than just about anyone else. Where I

Paul Dawalibi:

then this article, or this research report completely loses

Paul Dawalibi:

me is like, take crates, like who cares? Who cares? I hate

Paul Dawalibi:

when people minimize, like, how hard it is to build these kinds

Paul Dawalibi:

of platforms. And the billions of dollars required, you know,

Paul Dawalibi:

to distribute a developer third party developers work and put it

Paul Dawalibi:

out to the universe and get it noticed. And they'll charge what

Paul Dawalibi:

they want to charge if you don't like it. Go develop for another

Paul Dawalibi:

platform. Oh, wait, there is none so like, so sorry that we

Paul Dawalibi:

live in a capitalist society. But this is just the way of the

Paul Dawalibi:

world and and eventually I think to your point, all of this gets

Paul Dawalibi:

solved you get more competition as the gets more users and the

Paul Dawalibi:

more competition leads to lower prices right eventually all of

Paul Dawalibi:

this gets priced down to a point that's reasonable because you

Paul Dawalibi:

have so many competitors in the market and focusing on that as

Paul Dawalibi:

some kind of like hey, we got to watch this Roblox is the

Paul Dawalibi:

bellwether here like, is just missing the point entirely.

Paul Dawalibi:

ROBLOX is the poster child for how big M Metaverse will evolve

Paul Dawalibi:

from Little M Metaverse, I think and if the best starting point

Paul Dawalibi:

we've got today. So who cares about the take rate. I'll get

Paul Dawalibi:

this one kind of a disagree at least for me. Let's go down to

Paul Dawalibi:

the next one here. The next one here is the other key global

Paul Dawalibi:

trend the future of music and entertainment. What they're

Paul Dawalibi:

saying they start here by saying artists can't go on tour

Paul Dawalibi:

couldn't go on tour during COVID. So a lot of music events

Paul Dawalibi:

happened in fortnight and Roblox and now music NF Ts are a way

Paul Dawalibi:

for artists to earn a living. Basically, they can sell their

Paul Dawalibi:

singles or albums as NF T's to their loyal fans. And also, it's

Paul Dawalibi:

not mentioned here but when these NF T's get resold, they're

Paul Dawalibi:

still royalties and things that go back to the artists. That's

Paul Dawalibi:

one of the things they like about it. What do you think of

Paul Dawalibi:

meta verses are one of the key trends here is future of music

Paul Dawalibi:

and entertainment and NF T's in that context?

Jeff Cohen:

Well, I think again, these are trends, I think, I

Jeff Cohen:

think where I continue finding myself, I don't want to say

Jeff Cohen:

disagree, but finding nuances that they're pointing out a lot

Jeff Cohen:

of these trends that have already happened in the past,

Jeff Cohen:

like, clearly Music Entertainment has been a big

Jeff Cohen:

early trend in the metaverse, we've seen concerts and Roblox

Jeff Cohen:

concerts and fortnight. Various different events that have

Jeff Cohen:

become very popular. Where I think I disagree is that I don't

Jeff Cohen:

think that in the capitalist Metaverse, they're going to be

Jeff Cohen:

as important as they are currently. And I think if

Jeff Cohen:

anything, the more time that people start spending in the

Jeff Cohen:

metaverse on a daily basis, the more likely they are for these

Jeff Cohen:

big tentpole type events or sorry, entertainment events to

Jeff Cohen:

go actually into you. I'm spending 10 hours a day in the

Jeff Cohen:

metaverse, I may actually want to go to a concert interact with

Jeff Cohen:

people in the real world, because it's like the one time I

Jeff Cohen:

actually do that a week or something that hypothetical

Jeff Cohen:

future. So yeah, I think it will be less prevalent than it is

Jeff Cohen:

today. Actually,

Paul Dawalibi:

I didn't think that's where you were going to

Paul Dawalibi:

take that I thought you were gonna say that people just

Paul Dawalibi:

become numb to it. Or it's like, it loses the novelty a little

Paul Dawalibi:

bit, and therefore, it's a special. I mean, starting with

Paul Dawalibi:

the NFT one I'm like, again, it's one of those where I'm like

Paul Dawalibi:

sort of who cares, like Spotify is the better solution no matter

Paul Dawalibi:

what. So like, buying some artists album as an NFT is a

Paul Dawalibi:

pipe dream, because 99% of people are still just going to

Paul Dawalibi:

stream the music on Spotify. So like, I don't see how NFT solve

Paul Dawalibi:

any of the existing problem or change any of the existing

Paul Dawalibi:

behavior because that better for the end user. It's just not like

Paul Dawalibi:

I don't care that I don't own the music on Spotify. I just

Paul Dawalibi:

want to listen to what I want to listen to. And, and so I really,

Paul Dawalibi:

I think virtual worlds, you know, swallowing music and

Paul Dawalibi:

swallowing concerts. I buy that maybe more than you do, Jeff

Paul Dawalibi:

because I think there is some potential for like, well Every

Paul Dawalibi:

one can have the best seat in the house, everyone can go

Paul Dawalibi:

backstage and meet the artists, right? You could, you can't

Paul Dawalibi:

crowd 10,000 people around an artist in a virtual space, but

Paul Dawalibi:

you could in a virtual space and in a real world space versus a

Paul Dawalibi:

virtual space, right like so. There's things you can do in

Paul Dawalibi:

meta versus that make music potentially like an interesting

Paul Dawalibi:

subset of the whole of the whole sort of virtual world plush

Paul Dawalibi:

gaming. But the second part about NF T's I'm total and total

Paul Dawalibi:

disagreement like this, this desperate like hope that music

Paul Dawalibi:

will go back to people buying, like the album, just because

Paul Dawalibi:

we've turned it into an NFT Not gonna happen. Mixed Bag, but

Paul Dawalibi:

sort of disagree on that one. All right, let's look at the

Paul Dawalibi:

last of the last one on this page, your future of fashion and

Paul Dawalibi:

luxury brands. And this is it says as time spent in virtual

Paul Dawalibi:

worlds increases, like our identity, our representation

Paul Dawalibi:

becomes more important. Therefore things like engaging

Paul Dawalibi:

skins virtual garments become more important. And you get this

Paul Dawalibi:

direct to Avatar business model, which they're calling

Paul Dawalibi:

potentially the future of E commerce. So consumers gonna

Paul Dawalibi:

want to shop and immersive online environments

Paul Dawalibi:

photorealistic representations of physical garments, and people

Paul Dawalibi:

investing in their digital presence. What do you think of

Paul Dawalibi:

that?

Jeff Cohen:

We can we can blast through this one quickly in the

Jeff Cohen:

interest of time, I totally agree. I mean, this has been

Jeff Cohen:

something since episode one that we both been harping on. I think

Jeff Cohen:

that this is 100% accurate, more time we spend the digital world,

Jeff Cohen:

the more we care about our digital appearance as much if

Jeff Cohen:

not more than physical appearance, the more commerce we

Jeff Cohen:

start doing in the metaverse the more, I love the direct avatar

Jeff Cohen:

term. i Yeah, 100%. Do you think

Paul Dawalibi:

can I let me challenge that for a bit?

Paul Dawalibi:

Because I think I'm with you a lot of the way and I think a lot

Paul Dawalibi:

of people would agree wholeheartedly with your take on

Paul Dawalibi:

that. I had a whole conversation today with someone about I hate

Paul Dawalibi:

that for the most part, meta verses are still grounded in

Paul Dawalibi:

real world constraints. People still think about putting a

Paul Dawalibi:

Gucci store in the metaverse with walls, and a ceiling and

Paul Dawalibi:

windows and like an I O and it bothers me because I'm like, why

Paul Dawalibi:

are we tying ourselves to? Because, you know, it's hard to

Paul Dawalibi:

think outside of that box, tying ourselves to real world

Paul Dawalibi:

constraints. And it's like, I don't know, if I want my avatar

Paul Dawalibi:

to like, look like me, but with a Gucci shirt, like my might.

Paul Dawalibi:

And I'm not. I'm not saying that's impossible, but I also

Paul Dawalibi:

might want to just be a dragon for a day. Or like, you know,

Paul Dawalibi:

like

Jeff Cohen:

Dragon King Bucha. So I don't know, I don't I don't

Jeff Cohen:

disagree with that. I think you still will care. That is still

Jeff Cohen:

the definition of your physical, your digital presence. So, you

Jeff Cohen:

know,

Paul Dawalibi:

direct to Avatar still applies. But where it

Paul Dawalibi:

loses me a bit is is like is that future of fashion and

Paul Dawalibi:

luxury brands? Like is there a world for Gucci where I want to

Paul Dawalibi:

be a dragon? I don't know.

Jeff Cohen:

I I see your distinction. And I don't I'm not

Jeff Cohen:

challenging that because I think your distinction is fair and

Jeff Cohen:

accurate. I don't I would I don't want the metaverse to

Jeff Cohen:

become as a digital shopping mall. We talked about this

Jeff Cohen:

before. It's like yeah, oh, we just created a digital version

Jeff Cohen:

of like a grocery store. I go like apples like that. Yeah. But

Jeff Cohen:

I think the, you know, the fashion piece can include

Jeff Cohen:

dragons. And it might or might be a completely new Metaverse,

Jeff Cohen:

Rand Paul l Drago no or something and it's like the

Jeff Cohen:

coolest dragon avatar. So it doesn't have to necessarily be

Jeff Cohen:

the brand we associate.

Paul Dawalibi:

Yeah, yeah. I think that's that's a good

Paul Dawalibi:

insight brought back again here which is there will be native

Paul Dawalibi:

brands, brands, right? Yeah. Air quotes that that may we may not

Paul Dawalibi:

think of them in the same way as existing luxury or retail

Paul Dawalibi:

brands. Like there may be a company that makes great dragon

Paul Dawalibi:

skins right like that's their whole thing.

Unknown:

We got some good ones. You got some.

Paul Dawalibi:

All right, the next one number five played

Paul Dawalibi:

around in blockchain gaming. It says market for blockchain games

Paul Dawalibi:

is overrun by titles that feature rudimentary gameplay

Paul Dawalibi:

without sustainable economies. This is natural. As complex

Paul Dawalibi:

gaming experiences take time to develop it says time passes

Paul Dawalibi:

we're likely to see more blockchain games challenge

Paul Dawalibi:

traditional triple A titles in terms of technical complexity.

Paul Dawalibi:

And at some point size of the player base, though blockchain

Paul Dawalibi:

gaming faces some notable challenges, particularly

Paul Dawalibi:

sustainability and regulatory concerns. These are likely to be

Paul Dawalibi:

mitigated as the space matures. Thoughts on that one?

Jeff Cohen:

Oh, I mean it If people should go back and listen

Jeff Cohen:

to our prior 31 episodes, this is like the whole premise of our

Jeff Cohen:

podcast if somebody says, I agree with the right action

Jeff Cohen:

don't agree with the title as much as I agree with what they

Jeff Cohen:

wrote in nuance. I do think blockchain gaming, Blockchain

Jeff Cohen:

games are going to take time to develop. They are going to

Jeff Cohen:

eventually challenge triple A titles in terms of their

Jeff Cohen:

technical complexity in size deployment, so I do believe it.

Jeff Cohen:

I'm not in unclutter. You don't need to go down that rabbit hole

Jeff Cohen:

because we have times but I don't see Plater long term.

Jeff Cohen:

Yeah,

Paul Dawalibi:

I'll just keep this short because we've got

Paul Dawalibi:

like a like you said, Jeff, you can go back and listen to 30

Paul Dawalibi:

Episode 31 other episodes of the podcast where we've covered this

Paul Dawalibi:

ad nauseam. Clear sign right in this paragraph Newzoo. clueless

Paul Dawalibi:

on Play to earn gaming, not one mention of the word fun. All

Paul Dawalibi:

they talk about is economies and sustainability and a whole bunch

Paul Dawalibi:

of garbage that has nothing to do with the success of this

Paul Dawalibi:

trend. Totally couldn't disagree more on this one. They just they

Paul Dawalibi:

it's I'm consistently amazed how many supposedly smart people do

Paul Dawalibi:

not understand what it's going to take to be successful in this

Paul Dawalibi:

specific area for this trend to come true. Yeah, PvE guilds The

Paul Dawalibi:

Future of Work played on guilds and future work. It says played

Paul Dawalibi:

around guilds have exploded in popularity in the last year.

Paul Dawalibi:

Their activities revolve around acquiring and then loaning in

Paul Dawalibi:

game assets to players who can't otherwise afford the high entry

Paul Dawalibi:

barriers of blockchain based titles. The services are popular

Paul Dawalibi:

in growth markets, and they depend on blockchain games

Paul Dawalibi:

offering players enough financial incentives to engage

Paul Dawalibi:

with them. It says the future of work in the virtual realm

Paul Dawalibi:

extends beyond just gaming. As synthetic environments and

Paul Dawalibi:

digital twin technologies, among others become more advanced. A

Paul Dawalibi:

wide range of Metaverse native jobs will emerge to sustain our

Paul Dawalibi:

our tenet digital lives. What do you think of that one,

Jeff Cohen:

Jeff? You know, it's interesting, because I was all

Jeff Cohen:

set to go on my rant about PDU, about guilds and played around

Jeff Cohen:

and you know, how it's basically a digital denture servitude. I

Jeff Cohen:

guess I'll go down that rant a little bit, I don't think I

Jeff Cohen:

think that it is a bug, not a feature of these playoff games,

Jeff Cohen:

that barrier entry is so high that people need to effectively

Jeff Cohen:

take out a loan to start playing the game. I think that's a

Jeff Cohen:

horrible way to design your game. It's not fun, it becomes a

Jeff Cohen:

job. It's a super high barrier to entry to bring people in,

Jeff Cohen:

which is part of the reason why these games have miniscule tiny

Jeff Cohen:

player bases. So I do think that the successful player,

Jeff Cohen:

Blockchain games that happen in the next year or two are going

Jeff Cohen:

to not have those features. Or they will find a way to make it

Jeff Cohen:

such that you can earn these things without spending 1000s of

Jeff Cohen:

dollars upfront such that people need to take out the fact that

Jeff Cohen:

we take out a loan. I think guilds are a solution to a

Jeff Cohen:

problem that hopefully will not exist in the next iteration of

Jeff Cohen:

the space. So I'm not super bullish on guilds as a as it

Jeff Cohen:

relates to this definition of guilds like this financialized

Jeff Cohen:

you know, low syndicate loan definition not really. But the

Jeff Cohen:

second paragraph is actually more interested in thinking

Jeff Cohen:

about these digital jobs that people have within the

Jeff Cohen:

metaverse. And at first, I was sort of bullish like that

Jeff Cohen:

actually makes sense that I think I probably still am. But

Jeff Cohen:

as I was listening to read it, I sort of started thinking, most

Jeff Cohen:

of that will probably happen just with AI, right? Like I'm

Jeff Cohen:

thinking if I go into one of these digital fashion store,

Jeff Cohen:

like a clothing store, and I want to buy something, I don't

Jeff Cohen:

need a personal check. Hey, that can happen just digitally or

Jeff Cohen:

just be AI. So I'm not sure you necessarily need people like

Jeff Cohen:

doing jobs. metaverse. I'll leave that one open to future

Jeff Cohen:

iterations. I mean, there's definitely

Paul Dawalibi:

like the guilt thing of I'll keep mine short. I

Paul Dawalibi:

agree with you. It's It's so scary just reading that text. I

Paul Dawalibi:

totally disagree. I mean, these things will not exist in five

Paul Dawalibi:

years. Like mainstream gamers rail against simple things like

Paul Dawalibi:

loot boxes, you think guilds like in this context, indentured

Paul Dawalibi:

servitude will make will make the cut among the billions of

Paul Dawalibi:

mainstream gamers alike, not a chance in the world. And if even

Paul Dawalibi:

if it does, it will be regulated away. Like it's going to take

Paul Dawalibi:

one bad story of someone who like died, playing 65 hours

Paul Dawalibi:

trying to repay his loan. You know, for governments to step in

Paul Dawalibi:

and be like, wait a second, this is scary. And this shouldn't be

Paul Dawalibi:

happening. To no chance that these guilds and they should not

Paul Dawalibi:

survive, and I love your take on it. Jeff. Future of Work. Look,

Paul Dawalibi:

I think Metaverse gaming is all about the Future have fun and

Paul Dawalibi:

leisure time and recreation. Future of Work is a bit

Paul Dawalibi:

trickier. There's probably some use cases for work within meta

Paul Dawalibi:

versus, but it's more like social component of work and

Paul Dawalibi:

meeting people. And, you know, like, I think a lot of that will

Paul Dawalibi:

happen first. I don't think there's ever going to be a need

Paul Dawalibi:

for like a shoeshine person in the metaverse. That seems

Paul Dawalibi:

wholeheartedly artificial. Now, will there be a need for, you

Paul Dawalibi:

know, the equivalent of you know, like customer support

Paul Dawalibi:

people, the elves we talked about right, going around the

Paul Dawalibi:

metaverse. You know, keeping the peace, fixing bugs, getting

Paul Dawalibi:

people unstuck, solving problems, like yes, but it's

Paul Dawalibi:

glorified customer support. And I think those will be the first

Paul Dawalibi:

Native jobs beyond that. I'm not convinced that yet. This is

Paul Dawalibi:

about the future for the future funds more interesting here than

Paul Dawalibi:

the future of work. I wouldn't put this as high as they have.

Paul Dawalibi:

It's number seven, the rush for digital real estate, says the

Paul Dawalibi:

last 12 months have seen major brands like Samsung, Adidas and

Paul Dawalibi:

Gucci jumping on the bandwagon of digital land, fts. Acquiring

Paul Dawalibi:

digital real estate is essentially a bet on the

Paul Dawalibi:

blockchain based virtual worlds gaining in popularity, but it's

Paul Dawalibi:

also a low risk way for major companies to ensure they will be

Paul Dawalibi:

where their clientele is, should this become a wide ranging

Paul Dawalibi:

phenomenon in the future.

Jeff Cohen:

So once again, I agree like I forget whether they

Jeff Cohen:

were writing this list as like a list of trends that happened

Jeff Cohen:

versus a list of trends for the future, because clearly, this is

Jeff Cohen:

a trend that has happened. We have seen this land graph, this

Jeff Cohen:

this kind of brush

Paul Dawalibi:

is currently shaping.

Jeff Cohen:

So they are they are correct. I guess, to add my

Jeff Cohen:

context, I think what is much more interesting that everyone

Jeff Cohen:

is rushing by digital land is really what they're planning to

Jeff Cohen:

do with it. Because the way I think about it is it's very

Jeff Cohen:

similar to like the early days of internet, were very quickly

Jeff Cohen:

after the Internet came out once people realize, hey, I need to

Jeff Cohen:

on the internet, every brand web made a website. And some of them

Jeff Cohen:

were literally just like, hey, here's the location of our

Jeff Cohen:

store. And here's our phone number. And even today, some

Jeff Cohen:

brands that's still basically their website. But what made it

Jeff Cohen:

more interesting and what got really moved forward. The

Jeff Cohen:

internet is when brands when when native websites are coming

Jeff Cohen:

up with like, oh, well, now you can actually come on here and do

Jeff Cohen:

ecommerce. Now you can come on here and talk to people and

Jeff Cohen:

contact people have social elements, and you can create

Jeff Cohen:

your own user generated website. That's, that's when we really

Jeff Cohen:

started to see the explosion of I guess it was to write that

Jeff Cohen:

one. Can't keep these things. Yeah, that was really when you

Jeff Cohen:

saw the explosion, I think of what what to so what will be

Jeff Cohen:

interesting, if not necessarily be stories, right? Hey, Nike

Jeff Cohen:

bought a piece of land in the sandbox. It's like, okay, well,

Jeff Cohen:

what do they do that? Like, why does anyone care to go to it?

Jeff Cohen:

Because currently, outside of like the once a year where they

Jeff Cohen:

do a promotion or something, some news article comes out,

Jeff Cohen:

nobody's going to, they just spent money for the store. So

Jeff Cohen:

that's what I'm looking forward to next two or three years. It's

Jeff Cohen:

like, what are all these people who spent good money on land? Do

Jeff Cohen:

with it?

Paul Dawalibi:

I agree, I don't disagree on this, I'll add a

Paul Dawalibi:

little bit of a slightly different take, which is

Unknown:

if you were

Paul Dawalibi:

if you were a brand when.com was just taking

Paul Dawalibi:

off, right? I would never have faulted a brand for buying their

Paul Dawalibi:

domain name, right, which is essentially virtual real estate.

Paul Dawalibi:

Even if they did nothing with it. They won, right? It's sort

Paul Dawalibi:

of like, You're a big brand, you got lots of resources. This is

Paul Dawalibi:

an easy hedge, right? If this internet thing becomes big,

Paul Dawalibi:

you're okay. You own it. If it doesn't sell what Right? Like

Paul Dawalibi:

you're out 50,000 100 Whatever the cost is, right? Like no big

Paul Dawalibi:

deal. And I applaud brands who are doing all these things,

Paul Dawalibi:

trying all these things. I think every brand needs to be because

Paul Dawalibi:

every brand needs to be hedging. No one knows who's gonna win

Paul Dawalibi:

what that future is going to be we know attention will shift. We

Paul Dawalibi:

know these meta versus people are gonna spend lots of time in

Paul Dawalibi:

them. Now is it sandbox? Is it decentraland? Is it fortnight is

Paul Dawalibi:

it Roblox? Is it Minecraft? We don't know yet. We don't know

Paul Dawalibi:

who the big winner is going to be. Which is why you have to be

Paul Dawalibi:

in all of them. You have to there has to be a holistic

Paul Dawalibi:

strategy to be in all of them. Even if you don't know today,

Paul Dawalibi:

what you're going to do with it yet, and even knowing that some

Paul Dawalibi:

of them will not pan out. Because I don't think brands

Paul Dawalibi:

traditional brands can afford, especially in your world where

Paul Dawalibi:

you're going to be competing against Native brands also.

Paul Dawalibi:

Right like you you got to be there. Where the virtual real

Paul Dawalibi:

estate worries me is like, unlike a domain name. It's not

Paul Dawalibi:

scarce in any way. It's not limited. Right, it's much less

Paul Dawalibi:

of us sort of planting the flag if you bought nike.com. No one

Paul Dawalibi:

else could own nike.com. Right. Like, there's a lot of brands

Paul Dawalibi:

that can put very similar activations in sand sandbox that

Paul Dawalibi:

like are not really differentiated. They're not like

Paul Dawalibi:

there's a nuance here that I think can't be ignored. But I

Paul Dawalibi:

applaud all the brands doing this and I think they should

Paul Dawalibi:

continue to. I'm curious if you think eight you have a different

Paul Dawalibi:

take on it. And this is an introduction to NFT collections.

Paul Dawalibi:

It says the headline 2021 undeniably been the year of NF

Paul Dawalibi:

T's high profile collections being sought after for the boost

Paul Dawalibi:

in social status and financial incentives offered despite the

Paul Dawalibi:

current market pullback profile picture NF Ts are likely to be

Paul Dawalibi:

key elements when it comes to digital identity in the

Paul Dawalibi:

metaverse. What do you think of that last part? Profile Picture

Paul Dawalibi:

NF T's key element when it comes to digital identity in the

Paul Dawalibi:

metaverse?

Jeff Cohen:

Yeah, this is this is a great question is I think

Jeff Cohen:

I'll go I think I will go yes, but I wish I had more

Jeff Cohen:

conviction. And maybe that just tells them where where we are

Jeff Cohen:

kind of in the world today. Macro kind of like it. Nf T's

Jeff Cohen:

have gone up and now they've come down. So maybe that's a

Jeff Cohen:

little bit of my skepticism at this exact moment. And the

Jeff Cohen:

reason I think that is because like I understand we've been

Jeff Cohen:

very positive on digital identity, we talked about it a

Jeff Cohen:

few, a few few ones up, where you know, people's digital

Jeff Cohen:

identity is going to be important, it's gonna be

Jeff Cohen:

important to be unique. I'm just not sure that that necessarily

Jeff Cohen:

needs to be on the blockchain. You know, there's nothing to me

Jeff Cohen:

that says like, I necessarily need to be on a blockchain and

Jeff Cohen:

be a an NF T in order for it to be a digital identity that I

Jeff Cohen:

consider my own. I don't own my instagram or my Twitter handle.

Jeff Cohen:

Physically, I don't own it legally. But it's still mine. I

Jeff Cohen:

still created and curated and I still care about it. Is it? Like

Jeff Cohen:

I don't necessarily see the distinction where it needs to be

Jeff Cohen:

on a blockchain. No, but

Paul Dawalibi:

you own. I'm at Jeff Cohen 23 of Twitter.

Unknown:

But I don't write but that's my point. Like I consider

Paul Dawalibi:

this your digital identity. No one else can have

Paul Dawalibi:

at Jeff Koons record what

Jeff Cohen:

I'm saying I think I own it, but I don't look, I

Jeff Cohen:

don't it doesn't need to be on the blockchain

Paul Dawalibi:

to what's come surely no one else can have it.

Paul Dawalibi:

And so blockchain doesn't take anything away putting it on the

Paul Dawalibi:

blockchain wouldn't take anything away. It would just

Paul Dawalibi:

solidify the ownership or it might doesn't add much, but at

Paul Dawalibi:

least it proves ownership. It's it's an authenticity

Paul Dawalibi:

certificate. Right. I, where I totally like I I just totally

Paul Dawalibi:

disagree. Like I like the fact of putting digital identity on

Paul Dawalibi:

the blockchain. And I'm, I'm verified in some way my

Paul Dawalibi:

representation all I only own and no one else can use it.

Paul Dawalibi:

Right. I like that idea. Where I totally disagree with the

Paul Dawalibi:

statement is there's no chance that digital identity in the

Paul Dawalibi:

metaverse is going to be A to D painting, like a picture of a

Paul Dawalibi:

stupid ape like this is there's no chance that this is 10 years

Paul Dawalibi:

from now digital identity. zero chance these people are out to

Paul Dawalibi:

lunch if they think this is what digital identity is going to be

Paul Dawalibi:

in the metaverse. I do think it will be on blockchain. I do

Paul Dawalibi:

think it'll be unique. It'll be you'll own it, you'll care about

Paul Dawalibi:

it. But it's going to be something way more interesting

Paul Dawalibi:

way cooler than a 2d photograph. A 2d piece of art and mostly

Paul Dawalibi:

crappy art. Let's face it. All right, let's let's get to we're

Paul Dawalibi:

almost done here. Number nine, the transition from NFT

Paul Dawalibi:

collections to global IP. This we've talked about at length,

Paul Dawalibi:

you know board API club, doing music events, partnerships, all

Paul Dawalibi:

kinds of brand extensions in the mainstream. And they also talk

Paul Dawalibi:

about loot is an exercise in decentralized IP building. Its

Paul Dawalibi:

evolution is fully controlled by the community at large everyone

Paul Dawalibi:

can build applications that enrich the loot ecosystem, and

Paul Dawalibi:

bring it one step closer to becoming a major IP loot began a

Paul Dawalibi:

movement that was then quickly adopted by other notable

Paul Dawalibi:

projects like treasure. And that will reshape the way in some

Paul Dawalibi:

front some brands of the future are born and evolve. So NFT

Paul Dawalibi:

collections to global IP.

Jeff Cohen:

I think it's a trend that people think is gonna

Jeff Cohen:

happen, but I'm not that convinced. I just don't know. I

Jeff Cohen:

think these crypto communities are so much smaller right now

Jeff Cohen:

and people realize that I just think if I walked down the

Jeff Cohen:

street and asked 25 People like what they thought about board a

Jeff Cohen:

yacht club, you know, depending on what city I'm in, I bet two

Jeff Cohen:

of them know what it is. I just I'm not that bullish that these

Jeff Cohen:

are going to be like the New Avengers new Mickey Mouse or

Jeff Cohen:

like, you know, Disney Princess like it's just I don't know I

Jeff Cohen:

think that's a little bit of a pipe dream in the mind of these

Jeff Cohen:

people who are kind of caught up in their own, you know, in their

Jeff Cohen:

own universe a little bit. And some of these communities don't

Jeff Cohen:

even want that. We talked about the article last week where

Jeff Cohen:

they're kind of doing that. So I don't think this is a slam dunk

Jeff Cohen:

as much as they're making 100% agree,

Paul Dawalibi:

I actually don't have anything to add. Like, it's

Paul Dawalibi:

echo chambers that make people like global IP, and mainstream

Paul Dawalibi:

are the two words that sunk this for me, because even gaming,

Paul Dawalibi:

which is way more, you know, known in the mainstream, you

Paul Dawalibi:

still pull regular people who don't know what Roblox is,

Paul Dawalibi:

right? It's that's just the reality and, and board apes.

Paul Dawalibi:

Although every crypto person might know it, the crypto

Paul Dawalibi:

community is relatively small and is nowhere near mainstream

Paul Dawalibi:

scale yet. And I just don't think the IP is that

Paul Dawalibi:

interesting, I'm sorry to say like, board apes are not that

Paul Dawalibi:

interesting IP, as much as they would love it to be. Number 10,

Paul Dawalibi:

crypto and the promise of interoperability. So this is

Paul Dawalibi:

Aetherium. With its side chains and layer twos, it's the

Paul Dawalibi:

backbone of a sizable portion of the NFT and blockchain gaming

Paul Dawalibi:

space. With the theory emerge, it's poised to continue its rule

Paul Dawalibi:

as the dominant smart contract platform. Now with

Paul Dawalibi:

interoperability at scale across games continues to be a hot

Paul Dawalibi:

topic amongst Metaverse enthusiast, the path to adoption

Paul Dawalibi:

is currently filled with notable technical and political

Paul Dawalibi:

roadblocks. Nevertheless, interoperability can potentially

Paul Dawalibi:

become a reality as shared standards are being built and as

Paul Dawalibi:

player interest grows. So crypto and the promise of

Paul Dawalibi:

interoperability

Jeff Cohen:

Well, this is a lot a lot of trends. We've talked a

Jeff Cohen:

lot about as well, I think we're we are bullish on

Jeff Cohen:

interoperability. But do you see that there's a lot of challenges

Jeff Cohen:

and roadblocks as they put out? Here, notably being political

Jeff Cohen:

when they say that maybe I mean, across companies, not as I don't

Jeff Cohen:

know. So I'm gonna get involved. And so you can't bring that

Jeff Cohen:

sword from, you know, from game to game. But But yet, the shared

Jeff Cohen:

standards is something we talked about last week. And with some

Jeff Cohen:

of these big tech companies starting to create shared

Jeff Cohen:

medical standards, that's something we're bullish on. So I

Jeff Cohen:

think I do agree with the take terms of it being theory versus

Jeff Cohen:

layer twos, that's a little bit outside.

Paul Dawalibi:

Yeah, I'll put, I'll change the headline a bit

Paul Dawalibi:

to be more accurate. It's not crypto in the promise of

Paul Dawalibi:

interoperability, its crypto and the need for interoperability.

Paul Dawalibi:

It's a need for capital and Metaverse to happen,

Paul Dawalibi:

interoperability has to happen. What this is also missing is

Paul Dawalibi:

that the game developers, the big game developers are gonna

Paul Dawalibi:

fight this to the bitter end. They have every incentive for

Paul Dawalibi:

this for interoperability to not happen. So as much as companies

Paul Dawalibi:

like Mehta and others get together to Creech standards,

Paul Dawalibi:

which is great. The big games, game developers are all going to

Paul Dawalibi:

fight this to the very bitter end, and they will eventually

Paul Dawalibi:

capitulate, but it's going to take years, and it will be ugly,

Paul Dawalibi:

and it will be messy. And, and it will be necessary, though.

Paul Dawalibi:

And we will get to that holy grail capital and metaverse. But

Paul Dawalibi:

the game developers are going to go kicking and screaming I don't

Paul Dawalibi:

think they're willingly just going to open up all the walled

Paul Dawalibi:

gardens give up tons of revenue, you know, for for the promise

Paul Dawalibi:

of, of, you know, a beautiful garden of Eden Right? Like, I

Paul Dawalibi:

just don't, I just don't think that's going to happen as easily

Paul Dawalibi:

or as beautifully as they've articulated here. Jeff, this is

Paul Dawalibi:

like a great kind of like Greatest Hits episode, sort of

Paul Dawalibi:

like I liked that this research report touched on a lot of

Paul Dawalibi:

things we've talked about before. And hopefully you guys

Paul Dawalibi:

enjoyed this like a little bit of a summary of a lot of things

Paul Dawalibi:

we've talked about over the last 31 episodes, separate the

Paul Dawalibi:

episode 32. And, like I said, hope you guys are enjoying it.

Paul Dawalibi:

That brings us to the end of this podcast, Jeff, thank you.

Paul Dawalibi:

As always, thank you guys for listening. Make sure you

Paul Dawalibi:

subscribe to men of business, subscribe to our sister podcast

Paul Dawalibi:

man or woman. And we also do a bunch of crypto podcasts. If you

Paul Dawalibi:

love our content, go subscribe to crypto capsule on YouTube or

Paul Dawalibi:

on any podcast platform crypto capsule hosted by one of the

Paul Dawalibi:

biggest crypto influencers in the world. Henri ARSLANIAN, you

Paul Dawalibi:

guys I think will really enjoy that content. If you're into

Paul Dawalibi:

crypto, which you shouldn't be if you're watching Metal

Paul Dawalibi:

business or listening to metal business. So definitely go check

Paul Dawalibi:

that out. Jeff. Thank you. Thank you guys for listening. Don't

Paul Dawalibi:

forget guys, the future is fun. We'll see you next week.

Unknown:

Thanks for joining us here on meta business. Make sure

Unknown:

to subscribe to this podcast everywhere you get your

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podcasts, leave a five star review and tell your friends,

Unknown:

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