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163: Love Your Leadership: Hakim Lakhdar of Lakhdar Coaching on Self-Leadership and Emotional Intelligence for Attorneys
Episode 16330th September 2025 • Ten Golden Rules Internet Marketing for Law Firms Podcast • Ten Golden Rules
00:00:00 00:36:42

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Discover how to “Love Your Leadership”, with Hakim Lakhdar from Lakhdar Coaching. Hakim shares how his unusual journey from Key West musician to Harvard Law educator to executive coach, shaped a simple truth: the way you show up daily is what builds trust, wins referrals, and creates five-star operations.

You’ll hear how to strengthen emotional intelligence, lead with authenticity, and build transparent cultures where lawyers and teams thrive. Hakim breaks down practical routines, self-audits, and mindset shifts that keep you calm, confident, and consistent in both your practice and life.

Key Topics

03:21 — Hakim shares how growing up abroad and performing in Key West shaped his coaching lens

04:14 — Discover how work in Central Asia revealed the power of professional coaching

04:47 — Learn how executive education at Harvard and Miami Law shaped his approach with attorneys

06:02 — Hear why focusing on “who you’re being while you work” matters more than doing more

06:59 — See why emotional intelligence is no longer a “soft skill” but a must-have for lawyers

10:02 — Get a no-judgment method to self-audit and increase self-awareness

12:08 — Understand how stripping away law school conditioning helps you lead authentically

14:04 — Compare two similar firms and learn how operations create dramatically different results

14:43 — Discover how transparency and open communication strengthen culture and execution

19:07 — Hakim explains how honest self-check-ins guide career pivots and keep leadership aligned

20:59 — Hear how early sensitivity became a leadership superpower with the right channel

22:59 — Learn how personality frameworks like DISC and animal types help teams work better together

24:51 — Explore Hakim’s “why” and what it means to truly love your leadership

26:38 — See how AI tools like Fathom and ChatGPT support focus and productivity

29:15 — Find out how morning routines, fitness, and wellness practices protect long-term energy

31:01 — Discover books that reshape money mindset and client value in entrepreneurship

32:40 — Hear which podcasts and thought-provoking content Hakim values for growth

33:43 — Learn why referrals to coaching are best viewed as a gift, not criticism

Resources Mentioned

Books

Podcasts

About our Guest:

Hakim helps leaders uncover the unseen patterns blocking their success so they can lead with authenticity, courage, and clarity. For over 15 years, he has guided entrepreneurs, executives, and high performers worldwide—from directing high-profile programs at Harvard Law School to serving with the American Bar Association in Washington, D.C., Kyrgyzstan, and Tajikistan, to coaching leaders across industries. As host of the Access Your Leadership podcast, Hakim shares powerful stories of transformation and practical strategies for mastering self-leadership, navigating career transitions, and overcoming leadership challenges. A devoted husband and proud father to identical twin boys, Hakim believes leadership is deeply personal—because it’s not just about what you do, but who you are being.

https://lakhdarcoaching.com/ 

https://www.linkedin.com/in/hakimlakhdar/ 

Podcast: https://open.spotify.com/show/0907thUNk2ZNZ9V08W8Xth?si=7330def6c2dc4e7c 

About Jay Berkowitz:

Jay Berkowitz is a best-selling author and popular keynote speaker. Mr. Berkowitz managed marketing departments at: Coca-Cola, Sprint and McDonald's Restaurants, and he is the Founder and CEO of Ten Golden Rules,  a digital marketing agency specialized in working with attorneys.

Mr. Berkowitz is the author of Advanced Internet Marketing for Law Firms, The Ten Golden Rules of Online Marketing and 10 Free Internet Marketing Strategies that went to #1 on Amazon.  He is the host of the Ten Golden Rules of Internet Marketing Webinar and Podcast. He has been profiled by the Wall Street Journal, The Business Journals and FOX Business TV.

Mr. Berkowitz was selected for membership as a TITAN for Elite Digital Marketing Agencies, he is the recipient of a SOFIE Award for Most Effective use of Emerging Media, and a Special BERNAY’s Award.


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Transcripts

Hakim Lakhdar:

I spent most of my early career surrounded by

Hakim Lakhdar:

lawyers. So I got to learn them in my degree in undergrad with

Hakim Lakhdar:

sociology. So I'm a lover of people and groups and the way

Hakim Lakhdar:

that people operate and think, and, you know, to observe them

Hakim Lakhdar:

as I always would. I learned a lot about the way lawyers think

Hakim Lakhdar:

and the way that lawyers operate, and as any lawyer will

Hakim Lakhdar:

attest to, the journey through law school is this sort of like

Hakim Lakhdar:

forced molding of what a lawyer ought to look like and think

Hakim Lakhdar:

like and talk like. And what I'm always encouraging my legal

Hakim Lakhdar:

professional clients to do is let's try to strip some of that

Hakim Lakhdar:

away. Let's keep all the learning, let's keep all the

Hakim Lakhdar:

experience, all the valuable things that you've acquired

Hakim Lakhdar:

along the way, but let's strip some of the expectations and the

Hakim Lakhdar:

shoulds and all of that and get back to sort of who you are at

Hakim Lakhdar:

your core, so that you can operate in a unique way to you,

Hakim Lakhdar:

but also in an authentic way. And that becomes something that

Hakim Lakhdar:

become much more consistent, much more confident in the way

Hakim Lakhdar:

that you deliver that, and then your clients feel that as well,

Hakim Lakhdar:

versus reinventing yourself. Who am I going to be today? What

Hakim Lakhdar:

lawyer does my client need me to be today? Yes, circumstances

Hakim Lakhdar:

require a different approach, but not a different person. And

Hakim Lakhdar:

I think that I'm always curious to see who you really are. I

Hakim Lakhdar:

mean that question, so who are you can be really uncomfortable

Hakim Lakhdar:

and confronting for a lot of people, especially lawyers, when

Hakim Lakhdar:

they've worked so hard to create an image or a persona around who

Hakim Lakhdar:

they are as legal professionals. So I like to strip that away and

Hakim Lakhdar:

kind of get back to if you were to do this exactly your way,

Hakim Lakhdar:

what would it look

Jay Berkowitz:

like? Well, good morning, good afternoon, good

Jay Berkowitz:

evening, whatever time this podcast finds you, welcome to

Jay Berkowitz:

the 10 golden rules of internet marketing for law firms podcast.

Jay Berkowitz:

Great guest today. We'll get to him in two seconds. Today's

Jay Berkowitz:

commercial is for the 10 golden rules of internet marketing for

Jay Berkowitz:

law firms podcast. And if you enjoy it and you're a regular,

Jay Berkowitz:

do me a favor. Send it to another attorney. Send it to

Jay Berkowitz:

someone in the industry. I'd actually love to connect with

Jay Berkowitz:

folks who work with lawyers, accountants, business coaches,

Jay Berkowitz:

software or lawyers. Maybe one of those folks could be a guest

Jay Berkowitz:

on the podcast. Send them to me. We'll have them on the podcast.

Jay Berkowitz:

So today's commercial is, send it to a friend. Thank you in

Jay Berkowitz:

advance. And today I'm excited. I'm like extra fired up today.

Jay Berkowitz:

You guys can tell, because my guest today is someone I've

Jay Berkowitz:

known for about three or four years. We've been in two

Jay Berkowitz:

different networking groups together. Hakeem lachdar from

Jay Berkowitz:

lockdar coaching, welcome to the 10 golden rules of internet

Jay Berkowitz:

marketing for law firms podcast.

Hakim Lakhdar:

Mister Jay Berkowitz, I am so excited to be

Hakim Lakhdar:

here with you today. I'm a big fan, and this is fun.

Jay Berkowitz:

This is like extra fun for me because we've

Jay Berkowitz:

shared beers and lunches and networking and referrals and

Jay Berkowitz:

conferences, and we've done it all. So yeah, today it's a

Jay Berkowitz:

little bit extra fun for me. We always start out with a

Jay Berkowitz:

question, and we want to learn a little bit about your journey.

Jay Berkowitz:

And Hakeem has got a great one, by the way, I might even coax

Jay Berkowitz:

him to sing before we tell him that in advance. So his journey

Jay Berkowitz:

includes singing. So tell us how you became locked our coaching.

Hakim Lakhdar:

Well, I won't even go into all the twists and

Hakim Lakhdar:

turns, and thank you, Jay for already planting the seed there,

Hakim Lakhdar:

because my hand starts sweating, and the minute you said, I was

Hakim Lakhdar:

like, Oh no, yeah, I've had a really interesting journey. I

Hakim Lakhdar:

spent the early years of my life in the Middle East, Kuwait and

Hakim Lakhdar:

Saudi Arabia. I moved to Florida, where I grew up most of

Hakim Lakhdar:

my life. Went to Florida State University, go Knowles, and

Hakim Lakhdar:

started playing music there toward the southeast, ended up

Hakim Lakhdar:

being a featured act in Key West, Florida, which is what you

Hakim Lakhdar:

were alluding to, played at Irish Kevin's, the best bar in

Hakim Lakhdar:

Key West and had an amazing time. But I knew that there was

Hakim Lakhdar:

something more for me out there. I was destined to do more with

Hakim Lakhdar:

my talents and my experiences, and I went to graduate school in

Hakim Lakhdar:

Indiana University. I moved to DC, and next thing I knew, I was

Hakim Lakhdar:

in Kyrgyzstan and Tajikistan, working in places that are not

Hakim Lakhdar:

on your short list of Spring Break destinations, but what an

Hakim Lakhdar:

amazing opportunity to go to Central Asia and work there. And

Hakim Lakhdar:

that's where I fell in love with coaching. I was helping to

Hakim Lakhdar:

support and develop my field staff out there, and while they

Hakim Lakhdar:

would benefit from so much information around writing

Hakim Lakhdar:

quarterly reports or annual reports. They really, actually

Hakim Lakhdar:

were hungry for leadership, support, professional coaching.

Hakim Lakhdar:

And I saw that need, and I leaned into it, and I absolutely

Hakim Lakhdar:

loved it. And I moved on to another opportunity at Harvard

Hakim Lakhdar:

Law School. Did executive education there with lawyers,

Hakim Lakhdar:

leadership and management training for lawyers around the

Hakim Lakhdar:

world, and then moved back down to South Florida with my wife

Hakim Lakhdar:

and kids. I was working at University of Miami, also doing

Hakim Lakhdar:

a more executive education, and just felt this pull to working

Hakim Lakhdar:

with individuals, one on one, because that's where I saw the

Hakim Lakhdar:

real opportunity for transformation.

Jay Berkowitz:

So you took your talents from Tajikistan to South

Jay Berkowitz:

Beach. That's right, that's right. Oh yeah. LeBron. James

Jay Berkowitz:

LeBron, yep, you brought your talents back to South Beach.

Jay Berkowitz:

That's awesome. So Hakeem works with a lot of attorneys. He also

Jay Berkowitz:

works with a lot of folks who aren't attorneys. Yeah, but tell

Jay Berkowitz:

me about your company and the current role, and you do a kind

Jay Berkowitz:

of a unique approach to coaching. You aren't as much

Jay Berkowitz:

about the doing you as as you explained it, you're more about

Jay Berkowitz:

how you do it, but yeah, I'll let you say it in your words.

Hakim Lakhdar:

Yeah. Thank you so locked our coaching has been

Hakim Lakhdar:

around since 2019 it's a one man show. I have a lot of people who

Hakim Lakhdar:

support what I do in terms of helping me on my podcast and

Hakim Lakhdar:

social media and things like that, but in terms of what I do

Hakim Lakhdar:

and who does it, it's me, and I love that, because I get to

Hakim Lakhdar:

interact with my clients very intimately throughout our

Hakim Lakhdar:

engagements. And as you said, we're spending so much time, and

Hakim Lakhdar:

myself included, focused on what we need to do more of what we

Hakim Lakhdar:

need to do better. And I really like working with my clients on

Hakim Lakhdar:

who they're being while they do it, and that understanding of

Hakim Lakhdar:

who they are being, what they are feeling, what they are

Hakim Lakhdar:

experiencing, what they love, what they don't love, what

Hakim Lakhdar:

they're good at, what they could work on to improve as they're

Hakim Lakhdar:

doing all of these things that were being, you know, sort of

Hakim Lakhdar:

encouraged and sometimes even pressured to do, whether it's

Hakim Lakhdar:

self imposed or not, that piece of it, the being piece of it,

Hakim Lakhdar:

the understanding what it means to lead oneself before leading

Hakim Lakhdar:

others is really the essence of my coaching.

Jay Berkowitz:

There's a couple terms that keep coming up in my

Jay Berkowitz:

sphere. Well, one of them is nonviolent communications, NVC,

Jay Berkowitz:

and the other one is emotional intelligence. That sounds like a

Jay Berkowitz:

lot of the work you do is in in those spheres.

Hakim Lakhdar:

Yeah, yeah. 100% I think emotional intelligence,

Hakim Lakhdar:

especially. We see the posts everywhere now where people are

Hakim Lakhdar:

very vocal about how these once named soft skills, are no longer

Hakim Lakhdar:

soft these are must haves. These are crucial skills to success,

Hakim Lakhdar:

and a lot of people didn't understand how that factored

Hakim Lakhdar:

into an individual's success, especially if they were a high

Hakim Lakhdar:

achiever or top performer. But actually it's that top

Hakim Lakhdar:

performance, plus the emotional intelligence piece, some of

Hakim Lakhdar:

those soft skills, which I'm reluctant to even call them that

Hakim Lakhdar:

anymore, but the emotional intelligence piece is what

Hakim Lakhdar:

allows people to be trustworthy, to build trust, to create

Hakim Lakhdar:

relationships to, you know, maintain clients long term. And

Hakim Lakhdar:

I think that's something that people are really starting to

Hakim Lakhdar:

lean into, and really starting to focus a lot more of their

Hakim Lakhdar:

resources on.

Jay Berkowitz:

So give us emotional intelligence for

Jay Berkowitz:

dummies. What are three of the skills, or seven of the steps?

Jay Berkowitz:

Yeah.

Hakim Lakhdar:

Well, I think emotional intelligence, as I

Hakim Lakhdar:

would define it, is really a deeper and clear understanding

Hakim Lakhdar:

of one's self from an emotional level, obviously, but how you

Hakim Lakhdar:

react to things, what sort of things trigger you, how you make

Hakim Lakhdar:

people around you feel your ability or inability to connect

Hakim Lakhdar:

deeply with others. And again, deeply doesn't mean deep, dark

Hakim Lakhdar:

secrets and over sharing. It just means being real and

Hakim Lakhdar:

authentic. And the only way to do that, I think, in terms of

Hakim Lakhdar:

the self awareness that's required for higher emotional

Hakim Lakhdar:

intelligence, is just that to become more self aware. They're

Hakim Lakhdar:

not three or seven. I think it's really more than more like one,

Hakim Lakhdar:

it's finding a practice that works for you, where you can

Hakim Lakhdar:

start noticing patterns that are developing in the way that you

Hakim Lakhdar:

interact with people based on your emotional responses to

Hakim Lakhdar:

things.

Jay Berkowitz:

Maybe differentiate, for me, the role

Jay Berkowitz:

in communicating with clients and customers and peers and

Jay Berkowitz:

communicating with employees? Yeah.

Hakim Lakhdar:

I mean, I think we could pick that apart, and I

Hakim Lakhdar:

think there are potentially different ways that one might

Hakim Lakhdar:

communicate to each of those groups, depending on what the

Hakim Lakhdar:

perceived outcome is, but ultimately they're all the same,

Hakim Lakhdar:

because, as I was sharing with you earlier, it's really about

Hakim Lakhdar:

leading oneself first before leading others. And you are

Hakim Lakhdar:

leading your clients, you are leading your employees, you are

Hakim Lakhdar:

leading your peers. And if you are effective at leading

Hakim Lakhdar:

yourself, and you know where you're coming from, and it's

Hakim Lakhdar:

consistent and it's authentic and it's clear and it's

Hakim Lakhdar:

confident, then it's consistent like that across the groups.

Hakim Lakhdar:

Yes, your intention may be different, or your desired

Hakim Lakhdar:

outcome might be slightly different, but the way in which

Hakim Lakhdar:

you communicate ought to be the same. And I think it ought to be

Hakim Lakhdar:

the same, not because it should, but because that's what's going

Hakim Lakhdar:

to feel most congruent, most aligned with you, and you're not

Hakim Lakhdar:

going to have to force or fake your way through communication.

Jay Berkowitz:

You used the terms earlier about learning

Jay Berkowitz:

yourself and doing a self audit. Again, that's part of the work

Jay Berkowitz:

you do with your clients, but maybe give us the high level.

Jay Berkowitz:

Yeah. How? Someone can do that. Is there a book? Is there a

Jay Berkowitz:

course?

Hakim Lakhdar:

Or there are lots of interesting books around

Hakim Lakhdar:

this? Anything that you can look up, if you just Google Self

Hakim Lakhdar:

Mastery, for example, that's really good. Andrew Bryant is

Hakim Lakhdar:

another godfather of self leadership, which is the core of

Hakim Lakhdar:

my coaching, leading oneself, first and foremost. But I think

Hakim Lakhdar:

that the essence of of self audits or self leadership or

Hakim Lakhdar:

self awareness is really doing it from a place of non judgment,

Hakim Lakhdar:

and that's the real crucial piece, because it's one thing to

Hakim Lakhdar:

notice things about oneself, but then if you spiral into judging

Hakim Lakhdar:

yourself and beating yourself up, because we all are our own

Hakim Lakhdar:

harshest critic, right? I mean, once you start to notice those

Hakim Lakhdar:

things, do it from a place of light, easy, fun, rather than

Hakim Lakhdar:

this place of, like, overly critical, over, over, judging

Hakim Lakhdar:

yourself, because then you're going to spiral out into a

Hakim Lakhdar:

different direction, and you're not going to benefit from the

Jay Berkowitz:

learning. If you see, I'm taking notes, we're

Jay Berkowitz:

actually doing a culture exercise at our company. So, Oh,

Jay Berkowitz:

fantastic. I'm paying close attention, by all means, not

Jay Berkowitz:

only is he a good guy and a buddy smart. I forgot that part

Jay Berkowitz:

in the introduction. Maybe try and put it in context for

Jay Berkowitz:

lawyers. This is the Internet Marketing for law firms podcast.

Jay Berkowitz:

We're doing a lot of work in growth strategies and how

Jay Berkowitz:

companies can give five star operations, and I'm sure your

Jay Berkowitz:

advice is relevant for everyone else we're talking to here.

Jay Berkowitz:

Sure, how do you take it to that next level?

Hakim Lakhdar:

Yeah, so you know this about me, Jay, but I spent

Hakim Lakhdar:

over two decades working with lawyers. So even though I'm a

Hakim Lakhdar:

non lawyer, as we call ourselves, I worked at the

Hakim Lakhdar:

American Bar Association, I worked at Harvard Law School,

Hakim Lakhdar:

and I worked at Miami law so I spent most of my early career

Hakim Lakhdar:

surrounded by lawyers. So I got to learn them in my degree in

Hakim Lakhdar:

undergrad with sociology. So I'm a lover of people and groups and

Hakim Lakhdar:

the way that people operate and think, and, you know, to observe

Hakim Lakhdar:

them as I always would. I learned a lot about the way

Hakim Lakhdar:

lawyers think and the way that lawyers operate. And as any

Hakim Lakhdar:

lawyer will attest to, the journey through law school is

Hakim Lakhdar:

this sort of like forced molding of what a lawyer ought to look

Hakim Lakhdar:

like and think like and talk like. And what I'm always

Hakim Lakhdar:

encouraging my legal professional clients to do is

Hakim Lakhdar:

let's try to strip some of that away. Let's keep all the

Hakim Lakhdar:

learning, let's keep all the experience, all the valuable

Hakim Lakhdar:

things that you've acquired along the way, but let's strip

Hakim Lakhdar:

some of the expectations and the shoulds and all of that and get

Hakim Lakhdar:

back to sort of who you are at your core, so that you can

Hakim Lakhdar:

operate in a unique way to you, but also in an authentic way.

Hakim Lakhdar:

And that becomes something that become much more consistent,

Hakim Lakhdar:

much more confident in the way that you deliver that, and then

Hakim Lakhdar:

your clients feel that as well. Versus reinventing yourself, Who

Hakim Lakhdar:

am I going to be today? What lawyer does my client need me to

Hakim Lakhdar:

be today? Yes, circumstances require a different approach,

Hakim Lakhdar:

but not a different person. And I think that I'm always curious

Hakim Lakhdar:

to see who you really are. I mean that question so who are

Hakim Lakhdar:

you can be really uncomfortable and confronting for a lot of

Hakim Lakhdar:

people, especially lawyers, when they've worked so hard to create

Hakim Lakhdar:

an image or a persona around who they are as a legal

Hakim Lakhdar:

professional. So I like to strip that away and kind of get back

Hakim Lakhdar:

to if you were to do this exactly your way, what would it

Hakim Lakhdar:

look like?

Jay Berkowitz:

Perfect, well said, and I'm eating it up. So

Jay Berkowitz:

you and I have an interesting viewpoint. You know, we look at

Jay Berkowitz:

companies and law firms from the outside in. And now that I've

Jay Berkowitz:

been doing this for many years, I feel like I have a little bit

Jay Berkowitz:

of a feeling for what works and what doesn't work. Sure, I do an

Jay Berkowitz:

annual planning webinar. It's actually one of our most popular

Jay Berkowitz:

ones on our YouTube channel, how to build your annual business

Jay Berkowitz:

and marketing plan. And I talk about two firms that each get

Jay Berkowitz:

about 5000 visits to their website, and one firm signs 20

Jay Berkowitz:

clients a month. One firm signs 80 clients, but the difference

Jay Berkowitz:

between two firms is one runs like a business. They're super

Jay Berkowitz:

organized. They give five star operations and five star service

Jay Berkowitz:

to their clients, so they get five star Google reviews and all

Jay Berkowitz:

kinds of referrals, and that's the biggest reason why they have

Jay Berkowitz:

80 clients a month. And the other one's constantly

Jay Berkowitz:

dysfunctional. They don't get referrals from people in the

Jay Berkowitz:

industry, from the medical providers because they don't pay

Jay Berkowitz:

on time. All the parts are broken, and, as opposed to the

Jay Berkowitz:

other firmware, all the parts run super smooth. So when you

Jay Berkowitz:

look from the outside in, what are some of the things that you

Jay Berkowitz:

would recommend to a law firm and to any business in terms of

Jay Berkowitz:

operations, management structure?

Hakim Lakhdar:

Yeah, I think the word that I was thinking about

Hakim Lakhdar:

as I was listening to you say that, for me, from a leadership

Hakim Lakhdar:

perspective, is transparency. I think there's a lot of

Hakim Lakhdar:

withholding of information. Oftentimes there's a lack of

Hakim Lakhdar:

clarity in vision or what we're all working towards together. My

Hakim Lakhdar:

role might be different than your role, but we're all working

Hakim Lakhdar:

to. It's a common goal, or at least that's the assumption,

Hakim Lakhdar:

what is that goal? What is that vision for this company, for

Hakim Lakhdar:

this client? And I think that the resistance or the hesitation

Hakim Lakhdar:

that people often encounter in sharing, whether it's the

Hakim Lakhdar:

clarity that they have around that vision or the lack of

Hakim Lakhdar:

clarity, more importantly, when people have questions, people

Hakim Lakhdar:

get up in their heads and they start to judge themselves, their

Hakim Lakhdar:

inner critic gets quite loud and says, don't ask that question.

Hakim Lakhdar:

You're going to look silly. Don't ask that question. It's

Hakim Lakhdar:

going to undermine your authority. And so things don't

Hakim Lakhdar:

get talked about. And I think that within an organization,

Hakim Lakhdar:

when I'm on the outside looking in, I see that communication,

Hakim Lakhdar:

not type of communication, a style of communication, just

Hakim Lakhdar:

communication Big C isn't happening in the way that it

Hakim Lakhdar:

could. And as that improves, so do their operations.

Jay Berkowitz:

Transparency is something that has changed in

Jay Berkowitz:

business, and I grew up in a world where nobody would ever

Jay Berkowitz:

tell a co worker how much you made. It was all very hush, hush

Jay Berkowitz:

and very much in favor of management. The company would

Jay Berkowitz:

never tell you how much they made. And now there's a lot of

Jay Berkowitz:

openness and transparency around those things. Sure. What is that

Jay Berkowitz:

just a cultural shift? Do you think or is that people respond

Jay Berkowitz:

better to that open transparency and thereby companies run

Jay Berkowitz:

better?

Hakim Lakhdar:

Yeah, it's a great question. I think when I'm

Hakim Lakhdar:

thinking about transparency, it is exactly what you described.

Hakim Lakhdar:

And I'm also thinking about in the context of vulnerability

Hakim Lakhdar:

too. So transparency, yes, in terms of business operations and

Hakim Lakhdar:

the inner workings of a business, but also transparency

Hakim Lakhdar:

in what this client needs, what this client isn't getting, how

Hakim Lakhdar:

you met your mark, how you didn't meet your mark, feedback

Hakim Lakhdar:

is looped into that as well, right? I mean giving and

Hakim Lakhdar:

receiving feedback. I mean I work with senior leaders around

Hakim Lakhdar:

that constantly, and even reframing it as not positive or

Hakim Lakhdar:

negative feedback, but reinforcing or redirecting just

Hakim Lakhdar:

a conversation, but the conversation has to be had, and

Hakim Lakhdar:

I think the transparency has shifted over time, because

Hakim Lakhdar:

ultimately, Jay people don't want to be bottled up like that.

Hakim Lakhdar:

They're holding so much in that it's incredibly unhealthy. We're

Hakim Lakhdar:

not even talking about mental health and mindfulness here, but

Hakim Lakhdar:

that's and there's an element of that, but it's unhealthy at the

Hakim Lakhdar:

end of the day. It's ineffective, it's in it's

Hakim Lakhdar:

inefficient, and it's unhealthy for people to be walking around

Hakim Lakhdar:

all day trying to create a version of themselves or edit

Hakim Lakhdar:

themselves all day long at work, versus just being what they are

Hakim Lakhdar:

and sharing what's true for them, and doing it from a place

Hakim Lakhdar:

of professionalism and politeness, of course, and

Hakim Lakhdar:

respect, but doing it in a way that's really true and authentic

Hakim Lakhdar:

too.

Jay Berkowitz:

Yeah, I can see the the transparency is

Jay Berkowitz:

authenticity is openness is Yeah, yeah, no hidden agendas,

Jay Berkowitz:

no, right, yeah, right. That's definitely an evolution for the

Jay Berkowitz:

better in the world. This is a question I really like to ask

Jay Berkowitz:

our guests. We used to ask this in our CEO group, are there any

Jay Berkowitz:

key pivots or changes you made in your career, and you've made

Jay Berkowitz:

several that would be valuable lessons you come to a fork in

Jay Berkowitz:

the road and you pick one or the other. What are the lessons

Jay Berkowitz:

you've learned that maybe would be valuable for a young attorney

Jay Berkowitz:

or a young business person looking at two paths?

Hakim Lakhdar:

Yeah, I'm never banging. You know this about me,

Hakim Lakhdar:

Jay, I'm never banging the drum of leave your corporate job and

Hakim Lakhdar:

go do what you love and only what you love. I'm a bit more

Hakim Lakhdar:

realistic than that. Of course, I want people to love what

Hakim Lakhdar:

they're doing. Of course, I want people to feel connected. To

Hakim Lakhdar:

feel connected and aligned with the work that they're doing. But

Hakim Lakhdar:

the thing that I found throughout my career, and again,

Hakim Lakhdar:

you mentioned the twist and turns. I mean, I did acting in

Hakim Lakhdar:

stunts down in South Florida. I did music, music and singing and

Hakim Lakhdar:

key, the keys. I lived in Las Vegas for a year. I taught

Hakim Lakhdar:

kindergarten, I bartended. I mean, I did all of these

Hakim Lakhdar:

different careers every point along the way, I did that self

Hakim Lakhdar:

audit that you mentioned earlier, and just checked in.

Hakim Lakhdar:

Okay, the day I was offered a full contract at Irish cabins to

Hakim Lakhdar:

stay was the same day I was offered acceptance into a

Hakim Lakhdar:

master's PhD program at Indiana University, two very different

Hakim Lakhdar:

paths, and I had to ask myself, What do I want out of this life?

Hakim Lakhdar:

What do I what am I hoping to achieve? Is it to have one

Hakim Lakhdar:

button buttoned and no shoes as I play in the keys? It's not a

Hakim Lakhdar:

bad life. Or do I want to advance my degree and

Hakim Lakhdar:

potentially pursue another path and every step along the way, I

Hakim Lakhdar:

did that checking with myself, and I was very, very honest with

Hakim Lakhdar:

myself. And I think that honesty with oneself. I talk about this

Hakim Lakhdar:

with clients in large groups when I'm giving talks, is we ask

Hakim Lakhdar:

ourselves 40 to 50 questions a day. How many of those do we

Hakim Lakhdar:

actually answer? Do I have to do this all day? How long is this

Hakim Lakhdar:

going to take? Oh. Do. Why am I doing this? We ask these

Hakim Lakhdar:

questions all day, but very rarely do we actually answer

Hakim Lakhdar:

them. And if we take the time to slow down and actually answer

Hakim Lakhdar:

them honestly, we might reveal some interesting answers that

Hakim Lakhdar:

send us on a path that is more aligned with who we are.

Jay Berkowitz:

I think we answer. Ask ourselves about 35

Jay Berkowitz:

questions in a day now, and we take five of those may just put

Jay Berkowitz:

them into chat GPT. That's right, yeah, thanks, chatgpt. We

Jay Berkowitz:

find out a faster way. And chatgpt always gives me the

Jay Berkowitz:

answer I want. So I'm like, Okay, thank you, yeah, good

Jay Berkowitz:

prompts, great answers. That's right. You know, you're very

Jay Berkowitz:

mature at a young age, obviously playing the rock and roll down

Jay Berkowitz:

in Key West. Where did you learn that? Self audit? What is that,

Jay Berkowitz:

what are the questions you ask yourself?

Hakim Lakhdar:

You know, I didn't get into this when I was

Hakim Lakhdar:

telling my story, because there are just so many twists and

Hakim Lakhdar:

turns. But when people ask me, How long have you been coaching?

Hakim Lakhdar:

My default answer these days is, I've been coaching since I was

Hakim Lakhdar:

seven years old. I was the guy whose friend would get picked

Hakim Lakhdar:

last for kickball, and he'd go walk off his head, hang, hang

Hakim Lakhdar:

low. And I would say, You know what, I'm going to sit this game

Hakim Lakhdar:

out. And we'd go walk the fence line and we talk about it. I was

Hakim Lakhdar:

in middle school, and I was the only boy to join a peer

Hakim Lakhdar:

counseling out of black satin jacket with my name on the back

Hakim Lakhdar:

that said peer counselor. And I was counseling my peers at sixth

Hakim Lakhdar:

and seventh grade and doing conflict mediation between kids

Hakim Lakhdar:

who were fighting at the during lunch hour. Yeah, it's been so

Hakim Lakhdar:

ingrained in who I am, but I think a lot of it came from my

Hakim Lakhdar:

early years of living abroad and being in a different culture

Hakim Lakhdar:

with different languages and different people and religions

Hakim Lakhdar:

and smells and sounds and sights and all of that had me need to

Hakim Lakhdar:

be so aware of how this was affecting me and how I was

Hakim Lakhdar:

operating within it, that now it's just become an automatic

Hakim Lakhdar:

thing for me, and you can plot me anywhere, and I'm going to

Hakim Lakhdar:

have a good time and I'm

Jay Berkowitz:

going to make them down above. Or could you

Jay Berkowitz:

just sense it from an emotional standpoint?

Hakim Lakhdar:

No, I think from an emotional standpoint, I was

Hakim Lakhdar:

working with a phenomenal emotional emotional intelligence

Hakim Lakhdar:

profiler in the UK, Lindsay cap and I took an emotional

Hakim Lakhdar:

intelligence assessment, and she said, your report is scary. And

Hakim Lakhdar:

I said, Why is my report scary? And she said, your emotional

Hakim Lakhdar:

intelligence levels are off the chart. And that has its pros and

Hakim Lakhdar:

its cons too, right? I mean, it takes management of that too,

Hakim Lakhdar:

because that unmanaged or channeled in the wrong way can

Hakim Lakhdar:

be really debilitating, but channeled in the right way can

Hakim Lakhdar:

be extremely powerful. And something that one of my younger

Hakim Lakhdar:

years being told all the time, don't be so sensitive. Don't be

Hakim Lakhdar:

so sensitive in my later years, came to realize, Wow, that

Hakim Lakhdar:

sensitivity is actually a superpower

Jay Berkowitz:

for me. I'm just taking a sneak peek here at your

Jay Berkowitz:

DISC profile. Are you familiar with disc? I am familiar with

Hakim Lakhdar:

disc. I can't remember. It's been so long,

Hakim Lakhdar:

it's probably 10 years ago that I did my own DISC assessment.

Jay Berkowitz:

So I think an initiator, charismatic,

Jay Berkowitz:

visionary and sociable, yeah, BI is dominant and influential.

Jay Berkowitz:

Yeah, you're like, a leader and, you know, dominant type

Jay Berkowitz:

personality, and also the life of the party.

Hakim Lakhdar:

Yeah, we use an assessment, and a company I work

Hakim Lakhdar:

with out of the also out of the UK, called the training rock,

Hakim Lakhdar:

and it's based on Carl Young's personality types. And we use

Hakim Lakhdar:

animal influencers, and it's really, actually quite fun, and

Hakim Lakhdar:

I'm a lion and a dog and an ant, and lion and dog are just what

Hakim Lakhdar:

you described, very dominant leadership tendencies, very

Hakim Lakhdar:

focused. Can step in when necessary, and dog is also

Hakim Lakhdar:

people pleasing and warm and loving and caring and all of

Hakim Lakhdar:

those things, and they have their vulnerabilities. So if

Hakim Lakhdar:

you're working from those strengths for each of those

Hakim Lakhdar:

animals, fantastic. If you're working for their

Hakim Lakhdar:

vulnerabilities from each of those animals, you're going to

Hakim Lakhdar:

be a nightmare. So it's really about channeling that and being

Hakim Lakhdar:

aware of what you default to. And that's the self audit,

Hakim Lakhdar:

that's the self awareness, that's the self leadership

Hakim Lakhdar:

piece.

Jay Berkowitz:

There's a book called taking flight, and they

Jay Berkowitz:

describe all the disc profiles as birds. So the D is, is an

Jay Berkowitz:

eagle, you know, scoring above, looking down, dominant

Jay Berkowitz:

leadership. The I is the parrot, typically a sales personality,

Jay Berkowitz:

life of the party. And that's supportive. Is the Dove, which

Jay Berkowitz:

is be closest to the dog. And then the wise owl is the C, the

Jay Berkowitz:

numbers person typically like that, pas and lawyers. Most of

Jay Berkowitz:

the lawyers I talk to are CDs, so they're dominant, because

Jay Berkowitz:

most of the guys I'm speaking to are business owners, yeah, and

Jay Berkowitz:

probably the business manager of the firm. If I'm talking to the

Jay Berkowitz:

trial attorney, they're the CS, you know, they're the very

Jay Berkowitz:

detail oriented, like CP, lawyers, almost Yeah. Makes

Jay Berkowitz:

sense. Interesting. What's your why? I'm sure you're familiar

Jay Berkowitz:

with the number one TED talk of all time. Simon Sinek, yeah,

Jay Berkowitz:

people aren't go watch it. It's the number one of all time. What

Jay Berkowitz:

gets you up in the morning? What makes your heart beat faster?

Hakim Lakhdar:

I'll answer it in two ways. So my why for doing

Hakim Lakhdar:

what I do is. Is very simple. I don't like to see people unhappy

Hakim Lakhdar:

at work. We spend so much of our days, so much of our lives at

Hakim Lakhdar:

work, either in the office or with our peers online or our

Hakim Lakhdar:

colleagues online, and to see people struggle through their

Hakim Lakhdar:

work day, anxious, worried, stressed, burnt out,

Hakim Lakhdar:

overwhelmed, whatever it might be, it genuinely pains me to see

Hakim Lakhdar:

that. And typically, what I see is those people are operating

Hakim Lakhdar:

that way because there's a problem at the top. It usually

Hakim Lakhdar:

tracks back to poor leadership. So for me, rather than going

Hakim Lakhdar:

around every office and getting giving everybody a hug, I'm

Hakim Lakhdar:

going right to the leaders and saying, let's get you to a

Hakim Lakhdar:

place. And this is my other why, where you can love your

Hakim Lakhdar:

leadership. I want to see you loving your leadership. It's not

Hakim Lakhdar:

going to be all day every day, I know that, but I want you to

Hakim Lakhdar:

feel so calm and so confident in the way that you lead, because

Hakim Lakhdar:

it's congruent, because it's authentic, because it's aligned

Hakim Lakhdar:

with who you are, that the people that you then lead or

Hakim Lakhdar:

that you interact with, feel that too, and that, for me, is

Hakim Lakhdar:

how I'm making my difference in the

Jay Berkowitz:

world. I love that line, loving your

Jay Berkowitz:

leadership. I think that's you, and we talked a little bit about

Jay Berkowitz:

that, and hopefully, thank you, part of your personal brand

Jay Berkowitz:

going forward. So this is the time in the 10 golden rules

Jay Berkowitz:

podcast. We've been doing this for 15 or 16 years, where we ask

Jay Berkowitz:

you the quick one line answers, all right, so the first one,

Jay Berkowitz:

what are any apps or techniques you use for personal

Jay Berkowitz:

productivity?

Hakim Lakhdar:

So I realize lawyers have a little bit more

Hakim Lakhdar:

of a challenge with this in terms of privacy, but the one

Hakim Lakhdar:

that I use that has been a game changer for me is the AI note

Hakim Lakhdar:

takers. So I personally use fathom, and that has been so

Hakim Lakhdar:

beneficial to me, because one, I have a transcript of our

Hakim Lakhdar:

conversation, versus me going off screen, constantly writing

Hakim Lakhdar:

notes off to the side, I can stay very focused, very present.

Hakim Lakhdar:

And I love that, because if I need to go back and refer to

Hakim Lakhdar:

something, I can just go back to the transcript. So that has been

Hakim Lakhdar:

fantastic for me. And then any other utilization of AI. I use

Hakim Lakhdar:

AI throughout my coaching. My clients know that it's not in

Hakim Lakhdar:

place of the coaching. It's really more of an organizational

Hakim Lakhdar:

tool for me. So I've got my folders in chat GPT. I keep

Hakim Lakhdar:

things quite organized in there, and it's a great resource so

Hakim Lakhdar:

that I can maximize my time, because, as I mentioned, I'm a

Hakim Lakhdar:

one man show.

Jay Berkowitz:

I mentioned that, or you mentioned fathom. I love

Jay Berkowitz:

fathom, recording us on Fathom right now. And what it does is

Jay Berkowitz:

it records the video and audio. It transcribes the video and

Jay Berkowitz:

audio. It creates a summary of the call. It creates a summary

Jay Berkowitz:

of next steps. Who committed to do what you can download the

Jay Berkowitz:

transcript. I've used it actually a lot of times,

Jay Berkowitz:

downloading the transcripts into advanced gpts. Yes, I've used it

Jay Berkowitz:

to compare candidates for jobs. For sure, I've we're using it

Jay Berkowitz:

for sales coaching. So we download the sales calls and

Jay Berkowitz:

look at our sales calls with our sales team. Love it, so Fathom

Jay Berkowitz:

is a great one. I love it, yeah, all the other kinds of AIS too,

Jay Berkowitz:

for sure. Yeah. Do you have a person? Well, Hakeem looks

Jay Berkowitz:

great. Okay, dude's getting super fit. So I know you do, but

Jay Berkowitz:

share with us your personal wellness and fitness routine.

Jay Berkowitz:

Yeah?

Hakim Lakhdar:

So when I first started coaching, it took me a

Hakim Lakhdar:

while to shake off the sort of conditioning that I had I had

Hakim Lakhdar:

from years and years of w2 nine to five work. So I treated

Hakim Lakhdar:

myself like an employee, and I was not a great boss to myself.

Hakim Lakhdar:

So I overworked myself. I think you may know that in one of my

Hakim Lakhdar:

earlier years, I gave myself pneumonia for two months, and I

Hakim Lakhdar:

was in the hospital twice because I had just burnt myself

Hakim Lakhdar:

out trying to be 100% dad, 100% husband, 100% coach, 100%

Hakim Lakhdar:

business owner, son, brother, all of those things. And the

Hakim Lakhdar:

reality was I needed to create some time for myself so I could

Hakim Lakhdar:

be my best self. And it's the old adage of put your mask on

Hakim Lakhdar:

before you put the mask on to the person next to you. And I

Hakim Lakhdar:

wasn't adhering to that. So I have been very conscious of that

Hakim Lakhdar:

in recent years, where I create time for myself in the morning

Hakim Lakhdar:

to journal. I create time for myself to set my intentions for

Hakim Lakhdar:

the day. I take time where I go for a nice, long walk with a

Hakim Lakhdar:

weighted vest every morning and just sort of reflect on how I'm

Hakim Lakhdar:

feeling in my body and what I want to achieve with the day

Hakim Lakhdar:

today, and how excited I am to see certain clients, and what's

Hakim Lakhdar:

ahead for the week, and how I'm going to show up in my family,

Hakim Lakhdar:

and very being very clear and very intentional about those

Hakim Lakhdar:

things. So that's kind of my process. Is just creating space,

Hakim Lakhdar:

because it's something that I feel we so often neglect, is

Hakim Lakhdar:

finding that time and space to just do that self audit, to do

Hakim Lakhdar:

that check in, to set intentions. So creating more of

Hakim Lakhdar:

that in my day has been really helpful.

Jay Berkowitz:

By the way, when you take your talents to South

Jay Berkowitz:

Beach, Hakeem and I are both in South Florida, you're definitely

Jay Berkowitz:

getting a workout when you're walking in the summer right now.

Jay Berkowitz:

That's right, yeah. What is the. Behind the weighted vests. I've

Jay Berkowitz:

been seeing them a lot lately.

Hakim Lakhdar:

Yeah, rucking with a rucksack has been around

Hakim Lakhdar:

for decades, and that, I think that comes out of a lot of the

Hakim Lakhdar:

military fitness routines and having a big rucksack and

Hakim Lakhdar:

carrying 4060, 80 pounds on your back. And now people are seeing

Hakim Lakhdar:

the benefits of adding a little extra weight to your walk, so

Hakim Lakhdar:

that your walk is not only a brisk walk and an enjoyable,

Hakim Lakhdar:

relaxing walk, but it also adds a little bit of resistance to

Hakim Lakhdar:

whatever length or distance you choose to walk. So it's a nice

Hakim Lakhdar:

way just to kind of dial it up a little

Jay Berkowitz:

bit. I wondered if there was a mental aspect to

Jay Berkowitz:

it. I remember my trainer in the gym gave me a 25 pound weight

Jay Berkowitz:

and had me do a couple exercises, and he said, Wouldn't

Jay Berkowitz:

it feel great if you could do it 25 pounds lighter, if you could

Jay Berkowitz:

play sports, 25 pounds lighter? And I got the message right.

Jay Berkowitz:

These are supposed to be the quick one liners I'm slowing you

Jay Berkowitz:

down. Best sure business books.

Hakim Lakhdar:

Best business books. So it's interesting,

Hakim Lakhdar:

there's love money. Money loves you is one that is fantastic,

Hakim Lakhdar:

the law of divine compensation. As you'll notice, there's a

Hakim Lakhdar:

little bit of a trend here. So as I started my business, one of

Hakim Lakhdar:

the things that I really wanted to focus in on was my

Hakim Lakhdar:

relationship to money. It's very easy when you're getting a

Hakim Lakhdar:

paycheck and you know to the penny what it's going to be

Hakim Lakhdar:

every two weeks or every month as you become an entrepreneur,

Hakim Lakhdar:

it's eat, what you kill, and how you manage money, how you relate

Hakim Lakhdar:

to money, how you think about the exchange of money as value

Hakim Lakhdar:

with your clients, was very important to me. So I've spent a

Hakim Lakhdar:

lot of time actually focused on those books. And that is often

Hakim Lakhdar:

something I think that gets overlooked as we build

Hakim Lakhdar:

businesses, or we build book of businesses or clients. So that's

Hakim Lakhdar:

those are my two

Jay Berkowitz:

next up. You've got a little bit of time on your

Jay Berkowitz:

calendar, maybe before your next meeting, and a blog, a podcast,

Jay Berkowitz:

a YouTube comes across your feed. Which one that you

Jay Berkowitz:

subscribe to, you stop everything and listen to or read

Hakim Lakhdar:

10 golden rules? Of course,

Jay Berkowitz:

yay. Yeah, that is the right answer for a few

Jay Berkowitz:

any future guests.

Hakim Lakhdar:

I figured I was it was getting teed up perfectly

Hakim Lakhdar:

for me. I couldn't, I couldn't swing and miss on that. I really

Hakim Lakhdar:

enjoy listening to books. So if I'm if I'm walking, I tend to

Hakim Lakhdar:

listen to audio books, if I'm not sitting down somewhere

Hakim Lakhdar:

reading them. Podcasts are often podcasts that get referred to

Hakim Lakhdar:

me, which I love. I mean, anyone who refers a podcast or says, Oh

Hakim Lakhdar:

my gosh, this episode, you would love this. I'll listen in. I

Hakim Lakhdar:

don't have any go to podcast. There's coaches rising, which is

Hakim Lakhdar:

a great one. There's a living to your brilliance, which is one

Hakim Lakhdar:

out of the UK that a friend of mine, Al Kenny does with Mark

Hakim Lakhdar:

bilby, and that's a fantastic podcast a living to your

Hakim Lakhdar:

brilliance. And any ones that are are thought provoking for

Hakim Lakhdar:

me, and less about here the top 10 ninja hacks to figuring out

Hakim Lakhdar:

how to be a better you. I don't subscribe to those as much. I'm

Hakim Lakhdar:

much more interested in things that make you go, Hmm, kind of

Hakim Lakhdar:

thing.

Jay Berkowitz:

So who's your NFL or sports team?

Hakim Lakhdar:

Yeah, grew up in South Florida. Sadly, I'm a

Hakim Lakhdar:

Dolphins fan, which is suffering for a couple years, which is

Hakim Lakhdar:

painful all around I am also a dire Die Hard Seminoles fan,

Hakim Lakhdar:

having gone to Florida State and my freshman year we went. Any

Hakim Lakhdar:

hope for this year? I have no idea where we are right now is

Hakim Lakhdar:

also painful, so I'm getting it from all angles here, but those

Hakim Lakhdar:

are my two teams.

Jay Berkowitz:

What's a great introduction for you? Business

Jay Berkowitz:

wise, it's

Hakim Lakhdar:

interesting, because I think that a lot of

Hakim Lakhdar:

times people struggle with making introductions to coaches,

Hakim Lakhdar:

because it's akin to telling someone you need therapy, and

Hakim Lakhdar:

people shy away from that. But what I encourage people, when

Hakim Lakhdar:

they're making the referrals, to see it as a gift, and I really

Hakim Lakhdar:

mean that, to see it as you are fantastic. You know, in the sort

Hakim Lakhdar:

of spirit of Jim Collins, you are good. I want to see you be

Hakim Lakhdar:

great. This is the guy that's going to make you great. This is

Hakim Lakhdar:

a guy that, together, you guys, can get to a place where you are

Hakim Lakhdar:

loving your leadership, you are feeling like you're great at

Hakim Lakhdar:

what you do, and the results then show for it. So I think

Hakim Lakhdar:

it's really anybody business owner, senior professional,

Hakim Lakhdar:

aspiring leader, anybody who's committed to putting in the

Hakim Lakhdar:

work, anybody who sees an opportunity to level up, anyone

Hakim Lakhdar:

who's wildly successful but feels like there's something

Hakim Lakhdar:

missing and they're curious to see what it is that they're not

Hakim Lakhdar:

seeing. I have that unique perspective not being their

Hakim Lakhdar:

spouse or their leadership team member or their business

Hakim Lakhdar:

partner, I'm their champion. And to be in that conversation and

Hakim Lakhdar:

to, you know, reveal some of those things that they may not

Hakim Lakhdar:

see or they choose and not to look at, perhaps over time, are

Hakim Lakhdar:

always really fruitful conversations.

Jay Berkowitz:

And if you think Hakeem is a fit for you or

Jay Berkowitz:

someone you know, where can we get in touch?

Hakim Lakhdar:

View. You can find me on LinkedIn. I'm pretty

Hakim Lakhdar:

active on LinkedIn. Hakeem a lachdar. I check my messages

Hakim Lakhdar:

regularly. I respond to most comments that I see on posts.

Hakim Lakhdar:

You can also reach out to me via my website, locked our

Hakim Lakhdar:

coaching.com or, of course, via email. Hakeem at locked our

Hakim Lakhdar:

coaching.com

Jay Berkowitz:

that's l, a, k, H, D, A R, thank you, H D, A R,

Jay Berkowitz:

that's right, and links in the show notes, of course, down

Jay Berkowitz:

below in YouTube, wherever you're watching or listening to

Jay Berkowitz:

this. Hakeem, this was lots of fun, as always, learned and was

Jay Berkowitz:

entertained and enjoyed our time together. Thank you.

Hakim Lakhdar:

Thank you, Jay. I love being in conversation with

Hakim Lakhdar:

you, and I'm I'm excited to see what you continue to create

Hakim Lakhdar:

through this podcast and the important work that you do. So

Hakim Lakhdar:

keep it up, brother.

Jay Berkowitz:

Thank you, my friend.

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