Join us on The Best of Johnston County Podcast for an engaging episode with County Commissioner Chairman Butch Lawter. We delve into his background, his journey to Johnston County, his time on the Clayton Town Council, and his proudest achievements on the Johnston County Board of Commissioners. Plus, get insights into local infrastructure projects, downtown development, and more. 

Tune in for a fascinating look at a leader making a difference in our community. Don't miss this insightful conversation!

Butch Lawter: Yeah, so I guess a very interesting set of circumstances that brought me to that decision. There were some things between the county and the town that upset me a little bit. There was some other things with the water and sewer that upset me a little bit. And when that one council meeting I went around, basically went to the mayor, Pro Tem and the senior member of board, and said, are y'all going to run for county commissioner? And I was like, no. And I said, 


Jonathan Breeden: well, 


Butch Lawter: I'm running for county commissioner this year. So it was probably not the preferred protocol 


Jonathan Breeden: to, 


Butch Lawter: reach out to the Republican party and ask them, talk to them about it. I just said, you know what? 


Jonathan Breeden: I'm going to, it's kind of, you know, 


Butch Lawter: it's This time it's now. 


Jonathan Breeden: Hello and welcome to another edition of The Best of Johnston County Podcast. I'm your host, Jonathan Breeden. And on today's episode, we have County Commissioner Chairman Butch Lawter. 


And we're going to talk to him about of his background. He's an engineer. He went to Clemson. We're going to talk a little bit about his journey to Johnston County, his time on the Clayton Town Council, some of the things he's been the most proud of in his six years on the Johnston County Board of Commissioners. 


But before we get to that, I would encourage you to like, follow, or subscribe this podcast, wherever you're seeing it, whether it be on Apple, Spotify, YouTube, TikTok, LinkedIn, So, as you'll be aware of future episodes of The Best of Johnston County podcast. The Best of Johnston County podcast comes out every Monday. And we've had a lot of great guests in the past, like other county commissioners, like Patrick Harris and Ted Godwin, Parks and Rec Director Adrian O'Neill, Economic Development Director Chris Johnston. 


And I think, you'll find all of those to be fascinating and educational as I have. So go back and listen to some of those, and enjoy this one with Butch. Thank you for coming. 


Butch Lawter: Wow, that was rapid fire. 


Butch Lawter: I like that. It sounds, It reminds me of the Andy Griffith Show and the Darling family, jump in and hang on. 


Jonathan Breeden: Jump in and hang on. That's about right. 


That's about right. So anyway, so tell the audience, I mean, you are the chairman of the county commissioners, but not everybody that listens to this podcast knows that, or knows about the Johnston County commissioners. So your name, where are you from? So, 


Jonathan Breeden: Oh man. So did you go to Clemson? 


Butch Lawter: I did go to Clemson. 


Jonathan Breeden: I know you're wearing that Clemson shirt, because you wanted to get, I want that for you. I know you're trying to antagonize me being the NC State graduate. And we love to talk a lot of trash about football and stuff and how Clemson is not gonna beat NC State this year in football. Well, 


Jonathan Breeden: But you don't cheer for the Wolf Pack. 


Butch Lawter: What depends on it and not against Clemson, but against other teams. I I do pull for the Wolf Pack. Well, that's cool. 


Jonathan Breeden: That's cool. So, What kind of degree did you get at Clemson? 


Butch Lawter: Civil engineering degree. I had in graduate school. I've got a master's in geotechnical with a minor in environmental. And mostly environmental is what i've done most of my career. 


Jonathan Breeden: Okay. So when you got out and you got that graduate degree, what was your first job? 


Jonathan Breeden: Okay. Oh my goodness. 


Butch Lawter: And then I've been back in the consulting world for about eight years now. 


Butch Lawter: I worked for ST Wooten. uh, Built many roads in Central and Eastern North Carolina. Worked on a lot of projects, concrete and asphalt plants. A lot of good experience around Eastern and Central North Carolina, learning about ordinances and the way things work. So, well, 


Jonathan Breeden: And ST Wooten has done this project here with the widening of 40, which is closely, it's about to get finished a little late, but it's going to be finished. What do you think of what they've done? I think they've done a great job and it looks great. 


Butch Lawter: So for me already, even though it's not all the way complete, it's much safer when they've eliminated the left hand turns across, so you got the opposing left hand turn. So I know, it's a little, takes a little getting used to, I do like the double diamond interchange. It feels a little safer getting across through there. So I think overall, Yeah, when it's done, it's going to be much safer and quicker to get through this intersection. 


And so, they've eliminated the crossing over of lanes, which gets rid of collision points, and it's going to be a lot safer. And they're just about in the next, by the time this airs, all the lanes to Raleigh will be open in both directions. And also the connector exits that you'll use to use, the Cleveland Road exit. 


The, well, the 42 exit. And then the new Cleveland Road exit, the three 12B. I Think, 


Butch Lawter: I think, the Cleveland Road exit will obviously take a lot of traffic that's using 40, the 42 exit right now. So are soon to be 36. 


Jonathan Breeden: Yeah. 


Butch Lawter: Right. 


Jonathan Breeden: They're gonna, right, They're gonna change the name of the road to Highway 36 from Highway 42. I'm not happy about that, but I understand. that And, veterans, Veterans Parkway. 


Butch Lawter: So it will be 42, basically from 70 business in Clayton towards flowers. Right. Then 42 will then go on the Ranch Road extension, that's about to be finished. Out to, what is I? 


42 36 will become from there in through Clayton, from Clayton all the way out to current 42. You need a map. right? I got to talk through all this And it will go 36 all the way to Highway 50. And then at 50, it will come 42. Again, again, again, where 


Jonathan Breeden: The road changes names and you go through the intersection. 


Jonathan Breeden: When is that gonna happen? 


Butch Lawter: It looks like it will happen the, in the first part of next year. So there's a lot of okay. Obviously address changes, notifications, signage. so that Actually, the county and the town are working with the DOT now to make sure that's kind of all coordinated. And we didn't wanna do it before the holidays and create issues with presence getting delivered to the proper place for Christmas. So we're going to do it, I think, it's in February when that's officially supposed to have the signage up. 


So let's talk a little bit about, at some point, you run and are elected to the Clayton Town Council. When was that? 


And he approached me after church one Sunday and said, Hey you need to run for town council. And I'm like, what do you do? Like most people, you know, what do you do? And so he kind of told me the things we did and I was like, okay, why do you want me to do it? And at the time I was involved in the Civitans. I had my helping coaching and the Parks and Rec with my best friend's son, helping coach him, and of course involved in the church. So there's a year involved. A lot of people know you're an engineer. There's some things we need some help with there. I kinda said, okay, I'll think about it. 


And then two weeks later, back at church, she cornered me again and said, Hey, the filing deadline is coming up. What have you decided? And I said, well, I hadn't really thought about it. What do I need to do? And he said, you go down at the time, you can go to the town hall, pay $10 and sign up. and he said, You go do that Monday. And so I did. And I wound up being the top vote getter, not knowing really what all I was getting into. 


Jonathan Breeden: 2018. Well, You were one of the very first people I met in Clayton when I came up here in 2000, I was looking for a place to put a, a law practice. I thought I wanted to be in Clayton because it was fast growing. And I was doing my research, so I, got me a subscription to the Clayton News Star and I started reading it in an apartment in Andrew, trying to decide where I wanted to go because I want to go to a county and into a town that was being run properly. And it looked like Johnston County and the town of Clayton were being run properly, from what I could read from budgeting and stuff, because at that time, Garner had run out of sewer and was having all kinds of problems, which I think, helped sparks on what Clayton's growth and Western Johnston County's growth. As well, where we had some capacity, they didn't, I mean, I think [00:11:00] Garner's gotten that sort of fixed now, 24 years later. But they kind of got had themselves in a mess. But it looked like, at least the Clayton Town Council and the Johnston County Commissioners at the time had a plan. And that was one of the reasons I came to Johnston County. 


Jonathan Breeden: That's right. 


Butch Lawter: And so. by the time I got there, he had things heading in a, a really good direction as far as finances go. And so then, you know, we were kind of early on in the growth. And so ,we grew and developed as the town grew. And it it was intimate, there are things I look back now and it's, like, yeah, I wish I had done that a little different, wish we'd have kept, and it was a different process. 


So there were things that I think we did. I don't look back and think I've made a bad decision. Sometimes, I think the rules were set up. And there are a couple of projects I probably wish we would have tweaked a little bit more. Well, I mean, that's, I mean, 


Butch Lawter: So the biggest thing for me was the downtown development. and it was, I can't give the town council full credit because it took people invested money. And so we tried to, as I described it and set the table. you know, We wanted to have the things in place, ordinances, and programs where it was attractive, so that somebody would come in and invest. 


And they say, Hey, I want to go there. I want to be able to walk, you know, go on a walking trail. I take my kids to the park. 


Jonathan Breeden: Yeah. And he, Larry Bailey ended up being just tremendous for the town of Clayton. And he was, you know, people ended up in the right place at the right time. And he was the right person at the right time, because he had the vision, he knew where Clayton was going. And he was able to sell the council on running bonds and the voters voted for those bonds. And now I would say, Clayton has some of the nicest parks around. 


Butch Lawter: Oh, I would agree with that. 


Jonathan Breeden: I mean, Really, and Larry Bailey, NC State guy, I think too. I don't want you to forget that. 


Butch Lawter: Oh, he definitely is an NC State guy. 


Jonathan Breeden: So anyway, 


Butch Lawter: well, 


Jonathan Breeden: that's cool. 


Butch Lawter: That's cool. 


Butch Lawter: So, 


Butch Lawter: Yeah, 


Jonathan Breeden: so it was a, 


Butch Lawter: I guess a very interesting set of circumstances that brought me to that decision. There were some things between the county and the town that that, 


Butch Lawter: upset me a little bit. There was some other things with the water and sewer that upset me a little bit. And when that one council meeting I went around, basically went to the, Mayor Pro Tem, and the senior member of the board, and said, are y'all going to run for county commissioner? And I was like, no. And I said, 


Jonathan Breeden: well, 


Butch Lawter: I'm running for county commissioner this year. So it was probably not the preferred protocol 


Jonathan Breeden: to, 


Jonathan Breeden: I'm going to, it's kind of, you know, 


Butch Lawter: It's the time. 


Jonathan Breeden: is 


Butch Lawter: This time it's now. 


Jonathan Breeden: Right, right, 


right. Well, I mean, you know, it, It worked out. You won that race by a lot, if I remember correctly. So when you ran, I mean, what was your, what were you trying to do? I know you're a little mad. I mean, The town council and the county commissioners have been battling. That's long history. We don't need to rebuild that. But other than maybe to make the towns in this county get along a little better, what were you trying to do? 


Butch Lawter: So I think, the biggest thing was to get that you know, kind of the work together. I felt my background in engineering helped my experience helped, and I knew a lot of the folks who were elected officials in the town. But the biggest thing to me was, we had the infrastructure needs. I thought I could help with that, help with the planning on that. 


And so I think that helped me understand you know, some other things that were out there and wanting to change. And there was a lot of things that hadn't been changed. I mean. 2011, 2014 that plans the last time plans were developed. So I wanted to come in again, not say somebody's doing something bad. Just like when I ran into, I wanted to say, I think I can add this to what the county commissioners have. So, 


Butch Lawter: and, it is really different. I mean, You think, well one thing is very similar, but the things you deal with in the town, you got streets. In the town of Clayton, you had the electrical department to deal with. and Really, you were a little bit closer to the people because I didn't Clayton when I was on there you go out, somebody sees you. They don't talk to you. You know, I can slip to Four Oaks or Benson and not be recognized. but so [00:17:00] I felt like I came with a lot of experience. I wasn't sure how I compared to the other commissioners because that is a different role in different things you handle. 


As I got on there, I realized, okay. When I got on in Clayton Gospel, it was two years before I knew when to say I to something or nay. You know, I was like, okay, do I say something now? What is the process? So I felt like when I got on commission, that was out of the way. And so I understood things better and I felt like I stepped right in, and really hit the ground, round running. 


But I did want to make some changes and update some plans. And I didn't really realize, I'd never been Mayor Pro Tem in Clayton. And I didn't really seek out being the chair. And at the time, the late Tony Braswell came to me and said, what do you think about being chair? That wasn't going to be a change. And I said, well, I don't care. I'm good sitting on the side. And he said, no. How are you going to feel when you are the chair? And so I was really nervous because I, you know, sitting in front and leading the meetings, it's a whole lot different than sitting on the side and just listening. 


And again, Rick has been been around for 25 years now as county manager. So Not but not many better resources. than 


Jonathan Breeden: Yeah. So when did you become chairman? 


Butch Lawter: That's a good question. So this is 24 to 22. 


Jonathan Breeden: 22. 22. 


Yeah. Okay I know, you elect a chairman every year. 


Butch Lawter: Right. You know, 


Jonathan Breeden: You're elected half the half the board's elected one even year and the other half the board's elected the other even year, but the chairman is revoted on every single year. Why is that? 


Butch Lawter: I think that is just the process that Johnston County has. And I think that may be for every county, I'm not sure. But we had traditionally what it has been is, get a two year window, and so you usually get two. And I, was finishing up Chad Stewart's, that's when I first got on there. So maybe it's three. This is my third year on there. 


And in Clayton, we had two. And so I was like, Hey Rick, we got a lot of work. Why don't we meet twice a month? And so we moved to that and we can really get things going. But that was kind of one of the things I had wanted to do. Let's meet more often because people, when you meet once a month, people like would, they don't do anything. 


Jonathan Breeden: Right. Right. 


Butch Lawter: They come show up one Monday a month, and they don't do anything in between, and there's a lot of work. Well, 


Jonathan Breeden: Are y'all still meeting in the morning and at night? 


Butch Lawter: So we do on the first Monday of the month, we meet at 10 o'clock in the morning. And then we meet at six o'clock at night. And then on the third Monday, we just meet six o'clock at night. 


And the night meetings are typically land use planning, that kind of thing. 


Jonathan Breeden: Okay. And they're all stream live on YouTube. 


Butch Lawter: Yes. 


And the, I mean, I guess it's five and a half years, I think of six, but we're not through 2024. What would you say are you most proud of? 


Butch Lawter: So this may sound, you just kind of mentioned one that I'm very proud of is, coming from a background in Clayton with a public information officer, and the county didn't have, that was one of the things. And I thought we need to do a better job of communicating what we're doing to the citizens of Johnston County. And part of that was live streaming. 


And in Clayton, I was out there. Well, I don't think we want to live stream. But then once I got to the county level, it's like, we need a way to share it. And of course, COVID hit and we kind of were forced into it because we were planning some upgrades to the boardroom, and COVID hit, we were out and then we've been having choice, but to live stream. 


And so they've worked, with, Adam has worked with our emergency services team, to develop a presentation. Whereas before, that would probably would have been on Rick, the county manager, and Patrick and I to do it. But those guys are on top of it and like I said, with Jordan Piper and the merchant services folks have put something together that's really nice. Well, that's cool. 


Butch Lawter: I will say, 


I had very little knowledge of what the community college. I mean, I knew what they did. But the level that they operated in the diversity of things that they offered, I will say, and as you know, that is a hardworking board. It's not a board you show up once a month for a meeting, and then you go back, and then you come another month. There's a lot of work goes into that. And I think the thing that we're seeing now is the move back towards, and I'll say vocational training because I'm old. But the things that people can, they don't have to get a four year degree. They can get a two year degree or certificate and make really good money. You've got Novo and Grifols, and the BioWorks program. You got advanced manufacturing facility they're building, the health care and the health sciences. The piece is growing. Our enrollment, I think is up 17% so far this year. And I think that was after a 13% increase last year. 


Jonathan Breeden: No, that is a big deal. And you know, the one thing is that Johnston Community College is open to everybody. If you can't read, it's open to you. If you don't have a high school diploma, it's open to you. If you have a high school diploma and you want a short term training, it's open to you. If you have a four year degree, but you want more training, it's open to you. It is there for anybody. And it is very cost effective. Like I said, if you're coming out of high school, it's basically free. There's Pell Grants. They've got tons of scholarships through the Johnston Community College Foundation. 


And I think as we move forward, I personally think, a four year degree will not be as valuable in the capitalistic society, as it is now. I think it's going to be about skill sets, and AI, and what you can do for businesses, and what you can provide, moving forward. 


Jonathan Breeden: Right. No doubt. 


Butch Lawter: Well, 


Jonathan Breeden: The last question we'll ask everybody on every episode is what do you love best about Johnston County? 


Butch Lawter: The balance of the people. I'm a people person. So, I mean, I'm like you, when I'm going to talk to somebody, you got two ears, I'm going to talk to you. So, uh, but the, people are about four. And I do, the thing I do like is when, if you come to Johnston County and you want to be involved, I feel like, there's an opportunity. If you are happy not being involved, that's okay too. But if you really want to become involved in Johnston County, there are plenty of organizations. in, Civic, church, being elected official that you can get involved in. So I think, that's the biggest thing. It's not a place you can come and you, you, find it difficult to fit in. It's a good place to come. 


Jonathan Breeden: I agree. 100%. It is the people. And that's what everybody says on The Best of Johnston County podcasts. And what, that's what I honestly believe too. 


That's the end of today's episode of Best of Johnston County, a show brought to you by the trusted team at Breeden Law Office. We thank you for joining us today and we look forward to sharing more interesting facets of this community next week. Every story, every viewpoint adds another thread to the rich tapestry of Johnston County.