Mercy Sibande is visiting Scotland to talk about the work she does in Malawi for the Mamie Martin Foundation. Chimzy and Hazel grab her for a chat in the first episode of this new series exploring what People to People partnerships look like in 2023. She is joined by Moira Dunworth and they look back over the last 30 years, and forward to the next 30. We talk about some practical hurdles an organisation faces to create an equal partnership in an unjust system. E.g. RBS will not allow Malawian Board members as they have no address that is acceptable by their organisation's standards.

https://mamiemartin.org/

The final song in this episode is played by Davie Luhanga. The song can be found here alongside some of Davie's other music.

https://soundcloud.com/davieluhanga/good-old-days

This show was produced independently by Chimzy Dorey and Hazel Darwin-Clements and is supported by the Scotland Malawi Partnership.

[00:00:08] Chimzy: and I'm Chimzy Z. And welcome to People. To People. We are hosting conversations with Scotts and Malawians,

[00:00:19] Chimzy: We are at the [00:00:20] very beginning of our series, and it's been a while, so we have a request. Please like, subscribe and share the podcast with your friends

[00:00:32] Chimzy: On this episode we were invited to Mora Dunworth Flat to speak with Mercy Sibande, country director at Mammy Martin, who [00:00:40] was visiting the UK to connect with project trustees and supporters.

[00:01:04] Chimzy: I'm so sorry I left you, I, I didn't even ask after I'd gotten the bus, but it was worth it.

[00:01:32] Hazel: And on people and the past In series one we spoke with Marriott Dallas, who is Mamie Martin's granddaughter. And now [00:01:40] we have Country Director Mercy

[00:01:45] Hazel: Uh, with us in Scotland, along with Morra Dunworth, the administrator and marketing lead. So this is such a special opportunity, Mercy, to meet with you.

[00:01:55] Chimzy: I think I would like to, um, know more about the [00:02:00] girls. Do you have any idea of what the first girls that had funding from MMF are doing now?

[00:02:21] Mercy: That was 2010. She was at Mizuzu University. Doing her education course and she told me to say that she came on on M M F because when she was selected to go to second school, that was a, when any girl s school then, uh, her family had no money to pay school fees. [00:02:40] So even the transport for her to come from her home village in there to go to was very tough.

[00:03:09] Mercy: You are coming here. We pay school fees and all that. So the dad said, We told her not to come, but she cried three days to say that I want to go to school. The school that the government selection has selected me to [00:03:20] go to. So then fortunately enough, there was that funding for Mamie Martin Fund and she was put on the bus and there she was after four years getting selected to go to a public university, .

[00:03:57] Mercy: She's more opened up in, in the, [00:04:00] in her brains that when she goes into those small scale businesses, she'll do it differently from that one who dropped out maybe at primary school. You know, Malawi depends mostly on agriculture. When that girl goes into maybe farming, agriculture activities and all that, she'll be different because she can now understand more.

[00:04:41] Mercy: And she will, her should. Well, yeah. Yeah. And I can see this on our girls, you know? In informant, they're very timid. They're shy girls that when you talk to them, they can't even look at you, speak to you well, but when they're listening, seeing your classes, there's a huge change, a great change that you can [00:05:00] literally see with your eyes that, yeah, this girls really transformed.

[00:05:32] Hazel: Yeah. Which we asked before we started recording. Yeah. And yeah, I dunno if you wanted to tell us anything about that, about how it is to work [00:05:40] in this, in this particular relationship in Scotland, and why is it, why is Scotland important to you? Why is it annoying to you? What's going wrong? What isn't working?

[00:06:29] Mercy: So that decision making should more come from Malawi than from Scotland. Yes, the money is coming from here, but we are at liberty to make our own decisions and they [00:06:40] respect that. The board for Mommy Martin Fund is very flexible. To hear from us Malawians on how to learn the organizations. As I'm talking, we are having two trustees from Malawi on the board.

[00:07:07] Hazel: that's great. Okay. I suppose it's like if you felt like there was a problem or concern, could you raise that?

[00:07:43] Mercy: Yes.

[00:08:17] Mercy: One time I remember we had one [00:08:20] donation that was specifically to say, we need girls from a certain area to be the ones who should benefit from this. Funding. The one who has donated, who donated the money was close to the people of that area. So at the school, the girls that were there that were needed girls, we didn't find many [00:08:40] who were coming from the area, the specific area that was sent.

[00:09:08] Mercy: So the donor was glad to say, okay, we have told me the truth that. We could have given the donor, the girls that they needed, but they could have been girls that [00:09:20] were able, in fact, to pay fee. So we didn't want to do that. Yes.

[00:09:32] Hazel: So they've changed

[00:09:57] Moira: And if Mercy advises the board on something, [00:10:00] the chances are that will go through, there'll have to be a very good reason why it wouldn't in a board meeting. And that's quite how it should be. Cuz she's on the ground and she knows. And of course it is technology that allows us to have mercy on a board meeting because now we meet by Zoom.

[00:10:52] Moira: We're much closer to the Malawi ground than we ever were able to before.

[00:11:04] Moira: We would like to see more and more of our control being in Malawi. I do have to say, and you may or may not edit this out, that. That is in line with the Scottish government's wish for decolonization.

[00:11:41] Moira: Their criteria, what they require is virtually impossible from Malawi residents to meet their verification requirements. That is a very serious, systemic obstacle to the kind of partnership we are trying to develop. Yeah.

[00:12:03] Chimzy: Yeah. Yeah. Because you can want to make change, but if the power at the top, you know, if the people who are in charge of these things don't want to do that mm-hmm. Then no change happens.

[00:12:17] music: I, I don't,

[00:12:20] Moira: they want a residential address.

[00:12:26] Chimzy: work. Yeah. And usually I think with all, most government stuff, if you're to be verified, you need to have lived in that particular country for the past three years. Mm-hmm.

[00:12:42] Hazel: Well, good on you for keeping on the trying.

[00:12:55] Chimzy: I don't know. I feel like systems like that just take a really long time to change, don't they?[00:13:00]

[00:13:15] Mercy: though. Yeah, it's, it could be really lovely to have that on the [00:13:20] ground in Malawi, but, We also understand to say, as I already said, the need in Malawi is very huge.

[00:13:49] Mercy: So kind of like. Have a dead mission. While we need more girls to be educated, we end up paying employees in Malawi and then paying [00:14:00] utility bills. So I feel like better the way it's going in the near future, we see that there's, there's that opportunity and we have the resources to make that happen. We'll make it happen.

[00:14:26] Chimzy: yes. I guess that's like something that on paper seems like a great idea, but practically it just doesn't work.

[00:14:49] music: doing this. You're,

[00:14:57] Mercy: Welcome. It's really my passion [00:15:00] for the girls' education. I've been from a poor family and I know what it is to have no fees to go to school. So, but we know we cannot manage to help each one of them, but at least we're trying as M M F. To give that poor girl in Malawi a chance to go through s [00:15:20] Education.

[00:15:25] Chimzy: I really wish people did have free education in Malawi because my, my mom is from Zumba and mm-hmm. She didn't go to university, but when I went home last year, I was like, what would her life have been like if she lived. [00:15:40] Let's say in Scotland, and she was able to go to to school.

[00:15:53] Mercy: to everyone. Yeah. Yeah. We have people who are very clever. I see. You see them that this one if [00:16:00] only had gone to school. I have a grandmother who's very sharp, but I'm like, grandma, if you went to school, you know, it could have been then.

[00:16:28] Mercy: So yeah, those out here, girls and young people out here, they're very much privileged. Yeah. Anyway, we're in different worlds, but. We are doing [00:16:40] the very best to see these girls that they get educated and also that they too can change Malawi in the future for the better. Mm-hmm.

[00:16:54] music: We're very

[00:16:58] Hazel: to hear what you think. Are [00:17:00] you experiencing similar problems in your organization with the banks? Is there something else that chimed with you in this conversation?

[00:17:12] Hazel: media channels.

[00:17:21] Chimzy: We'll aim to publish once a fortnight this series, which is supported by the Scotland Ulai partnership.