In this episode, we explore the realm of leadership with the incredible Sarah McArthur, Editor-in-Chief of the Apex Award-winning "Leader to Leader Journal." Broadcasting from the heart of New York, Sarah brings a wealth of experience and knowledge in leadership, management, and executive coaching.

Join us as Sarah shares with me her impactful relationships with luminaries like Frances Hasselbein, Alan Mulally, and Marshall Goldsmith, highlighting the transformative essence of authentic leadership. Our discussion highlights Frances Hasselbein's enduring legacy, her lasting impact on organizations like the Girl Scouts of America, and the key leadership principles she stood for.

We also talk about Sarah’s passion project, a documentary she is currently producing, along with Emmy Award-winning documentarians, David & Beverly Schler—Defining Moments—about her mentor and friend, Frances Hasselbein. Watch for this project in later in 2024.

You can reach Sarah at: sarah@sarahmcarthur.com

Website: www.sarahmcarthur.com

LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/sarahmcarthur

A little about me: 

I began my career as a teacher, was a corporate trainer for many years, and then found my niche training & supporting business owners, entrepreneurs & sales professionals to network at a world-class level. My passion is working with motivated people, who are coachable and who want to build their businesses through relationship marketing and networking (online & offline). I help my clients create retention strategies, grow through referrals, and create loyal customers by staying connected. 

In appreciation for being here, I have a couple of items for you. 

A LinkedIn Checklist for setting up your fully optimized Profile:  

An opportunity to test drive the Follow Up system I recommend by taking the  

10 Card Challenge – you won’t regret it.   

Connect with me: 

http://JanicePorter.com 

https://www.linkedin.com/in/janiceporter/ 

https://www.facebook.com/janiceporter1 

Thanks for listening! 

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Mentioned in this episode:

LinkedIn Ad

Hello, everyone, and welcome to this week's

episode of relationships rule. I'm very excited about my guest

today, Sarah McArthur who is joining us from New York,

New York, East Coast, Pennsylvania, New York.

And

Sarah is she has an amazing resume, so to speak,

that I want to share with you. But I first of all want to

welcome Sarah to the show.

Thank you, Janice. so wonderful to be here.

Thank you. I love that we met on LinkedIn. And I

meet some of my most interesting people on LinkedIn. And I always

say that because I teach people how to use LinkedIn. And they

don't often think that that can happen. And it does, but you

have to, you have to know what you're doing and you have to be

reaching out in the right way to people. So I was amazed and in

so interested when I learned what Sarah does, and I want to

share this with you. She is the editor in chief of the apex

award winning leader to leader journal, which was founded by

Presidential Medal of Freedom recipient, Francis hasslein, who

we're gonna get into talking about Francis for sure in this

episode, and she is a thought partner and trusted adviser to

former CEO of Boeing and Ford, Alan Mulally, who is considered

one of the greatest leaders of the 21st century, Sarah's

mission is to help leaders work together towards a bright future

for all her fields of expertise are leadership management,

personal leadership, development, and executive and

business coaching. She is currently producing defining

moments, a documentary about Francis hasslein with an Emmy

Award winning doc documentarian, David and Beverly Schlanger

Schuler Sarah has authored and edited many books including

making waves with former CEO of Celebrity Cruises. Lisa lute off

parallel and work is love made visible with Marshall Goldsmith

and Francis Hatfield. Heseltine forwarded for it done by Alan

Mulally. Now, there's so much more. And I don't want to sit

here and just read this because I want to dig in with you,

Sarah. And where I want to start first is the fact that these

names Francis hassled by an Alan Mulally and, particularly, and

Marshall Goldsmith, they come up a lot. And what that meant to me

is it isn't just about work relationships, these are people

that became personal relationships in your life,

people, you know, like and trust, and that really has

colored your world for so long. So can you speak to that?

Because I'm all about relationships. Right? And to me,

that is the most significant piece.

Oh, thank you so much for having me, Janice. I'm

so happy to be here. And this is such a special time for me to

get to talk with you. And I love your subject matter so much.

You're so right. I'm fortunate in that the people that I get to

work with these few that we're mentioning right now, Marshall

Goldsmith, Francis Hessel, Bine, alum Lolly, not only am I do I

work with them work together with them, but they're also

very, very, very dear friends. Not only am I their dear friend,

and they're my dear friend, but they are also dear friends of

each other. Wow. So Marshall Goldsmith, one of his heroes is

Francis Hessel by,

and I think she's one of your heroes, too. Oh,

definitely.

alum lolly. One of his heroes is Francis Hassel.

Buying. And so I was introduced to Francis a number of years

ago, working on a book with Marshall Goldsmith. And I had

known of her and, you know, wanted to meet her. And then I

was the managing editor of a book. So I wanted to put this

book together about leadership. And so ask all these different

contributors what their idea of leadership was, and going

forward. And I asked Francis, and she responded, of course,

and she wrote an article and sent it back. And what was so

interesting about that article, I had been in the leadership

field for a while. And what was so interesting about that

article is I remember reading it early in the morning. When I

like to do my editing, I'm reading it early in the morning

and reading her, her her article or message, and it is the first

article about leadership that ever made me cry aloud. The

message was right to my heart. And the message of that article

is about respect for all people. And how that has been the

guiding principle for Francis throughout her life. And

Francis, what I loved dearly, CEO of the Girl Scouts from 19,

site 976 to 1990. Peter Drucker, founding father of modern

management said she was the greatest leader he had ever met,

you know, they work together partner for many years, a little

like Ellen Malala. And I, I think she wrote, I don't know,

wrote and edited 27 or 28 books, she was awarded 23 honorary

doctorate degrees. And was she, she she didn't graduate college

because she was taking care of her family. So she, you know,

she was 1951 class chair at West Point, she was extraordinary.

And she was she was the type of leader who believed in

inclusion, appreciating people sharing leadership, not telling

people what to do not command and control. But, you know,

sharing leadership. And I thought, when I was reading this

article, I thought this this article by Francis, this

contribution, I thought, if Francis can be who she is, with

respect for all people, if she can lead this way, and have this

impact. So can I Oh, wow. And, you know, so since then, that

was in early 2000s. Since then, I have found ways to get as

close to Francis as I possibly can, because that's what I do.

She's, I love her with all my heart.

So we'll come to her story in a minute. I did

see, though, that I wrote down that she said that leadership is

how to be not how to do.

She did the full quote. And I follow this like

crazy. The full quote is, leadership is Francis's personal

definition of leadership. And she said, leadership is a matter

of how to be not how to do it is the quality of our character

that determines our performance, and results. So, to me, what

that means is, I can be a leader, whose character, I have

respect for all people, that is my character, and that will

determine my performance and results, meaning everyone will

be included and feel appreciated and all that kind of stuff. And

if I am a leader, whose character is different from that

there's a different quality, my performance and results will be

different. So she had us focus on things like humility, love

and service. So

tell me a little bit about lead the leader to

leader journal that you that's your baby, right? You're the

editor in chief of that is a it's still a real, tangible

journal, or magazine. And how does it come out?

leader to leader journal was started by Francis

founded by Francis Heseltine in 1996. So, it's been around, she

was editor in chief until four years ago or so three years ago

or so. And it's quarterly, it's a print and online publication.

We have probably 15 contributors at each issue. Our recent issue

was a commemorative issue about Francis you know, all the people

who are a lot of the people who have been influenced by Francis

who liked to write and have written for the journal

contributed a piece about her there's no way then

we can go any further without talking and

getting to know really who Francis is because she's so you

know, in it, I don't know the word. You're the writer it's

been it hasn't come to me but you know, she's, she's not

embodies but you know, she's everywhere when it comes to you

and and your work. So, and I'm very excited. I did watch the

trailer twice to that documentary and I can't wait

till it till it comes out so I can learn More. I mean, I'm

learning little bits as they go along about what an amazing

woman and leader Francis was because I had never heard of

her. First of all, I'm Canadian, but that shouldn't be the issue.

But Girl Scouts of America, right, I wouldn't have gotten

that concept or that piece. My daughter, my one of my daughters

was a Girl Scout here, but I don't think I ever heard her

name come up. So tell my audience about who she was. And

the fact that she's, like, amazing, and that you are in the

midst of producing this documentary about her life,

which is going to be come out next year, and it's going to be

amazing. So tell us who she is. She, okay. Go.

Francis is very special. Our documentary will

come out summer of next year. That's our plan. It's called

defining moments, The Life and Leadership legacy of Francis

Hassel bine. Francis Housel bine. You can tell she is dead.

I am definitely all about Francis. Because Francis, to me,

embodies who I think we can be. If we want to all work together,

she is that she has the characteristics and qualities of

of people who want to work together. She definitely is that

person. So Francis was born and raised in Johnstown,

Pennsylvania, and in 1915, so she served she served us for 107

years. That's

what I was waiting for. She was 107 When

she died, and to lunch the day before she died with you or that

the week before.

No, no, we didn't go to lunch. The day

before. No, we were

here. Or there in Johnstown, Pennsylvania. Yeah,

we are here in Easton, Easton. But you used to go to lunch with

her once a week, right? Yeah,

we went to lunch. So I used to live on the,

on the west coast. And Francis was had a place in New York. And

so I would meet her for lunch, we would go to the force, I

would take her to the Four Seasons restaurant. And not

every week, but very frequently it was it was pretty frequent.

And every time we went to lunch, she would always ask me the

question, which is the question that's we asked of all the

contributors for book or book work is love made visible? And

the question is, what do you see? When you look out the

window that's visible, but not yet seen by others? So Frances,

back to that question about Francis, who she was Francis was

the type of leader who she always she always had us.

Thinking about self awareness, she always had us thinking about

who we are, you know, why we are, who we are, what we do, and

how we do it, she had us, she had a way of leading us not by

telling us what to do, which was the old way in her time was not

the old way. That's our time, that was the way more and she

she had a way of leading us, you know, leading hundreds of 1000s

of volunteers at the Girl Scouts, right? massive

turnaround to include all little girls, instead of just some

little girls, I mean, massive turnaround. She had a way of

leading us not by telling us what to do so much, but by

having us look inside ourselves, at who we want to be, you know,

back to that leadership as a matter of how to be that how to

do who we want to be in this world. And then just wonderful

things happen as a result of that role

model really extraordinary in her time,

right? Because there weren't many women in who had the

influence that she essentially had, didn't she she got the

Medal of Freedom from Bill Clinton, President Clinton,

right. And, and how So one was that that would be the 90s but

that was in the 90s. She's the first woman to

graced the cover of Businessweek is the first woman to ever chair

a United Way campaign. So she and she was also she was the

first woman to do a lot of things. And when asked about it,

or when she was she was she was asked about being a woman

leader, she would say, I'm a leader who happens to be a

woman. So don't focus on my. Yeah, you know, my, my gender.

Yeah, focus on who I am.

So she'll be adamant about that. And

so she

the book would work is love made visible that you did with. It

was the story of Lisa lotof. Pirlo, right, who is the CEO,

former CEO of Celebrity Cruises, and wasn't she with another

company as well? I don't remember.

So the book with Lisa Lu Tov Pirlo is called

making waves. Oh, sorry, making waves the other that'll be

published in early early Well, in February, early 2008. Okay.

Right. Because that's forthcoming. Is

that did you edit that or did you write

Lisa and I wrote that, Lisa, she's the she's the

CEO. Well, thus, she was the CEO of Celebrity Cruises, and she

has become the, the vice chair of External Affairs for Royal

Caribbean group was, which is, okay, we're overall company.

Right? Okay. So

I think what what is interesting to me is, as I

was doing a little bit of research I mentioned before we

went on air that I saw another book that you were involved with

called a time, a time to lead. And that was written by Craig

Dowden. And it says, with Alan Mulally and Sarah, Sarah

MacArthur, so how do you how do you do that? Like, somebody's

writing the book, and then it's with you, what does that mean?

Because I have no idea. I see it all the time. But what does that

mean?

It depends on on the book that we're working on.

It depends. So use this as an example. It with

this. Craig Dowden is the lead author and

Alan and I have, it's called a masterclass. Okay, so within

each chapter that Craig wrote up about the principles of

leadership, there's a masterclass section. And that's

Alan and I, so we have been writing it.

And so you do the practical pieces around. Okay,

that's

how working together applies with this

certain principle.

Okay. Okay. Now, do you see, I'm going off left

field here. Do you see any positive changes, or any sort of

huge leaps around leadership today? From what it was like,

you know, 20 years ago, even 10 years ago? Probably? Has it

changed?

So my, in leadership, my, for me, I always

think of leadership is just like, you know, coaching or cars

or whatever it is, I have a specific area of leadership that

I would address, I would answer this question too. So for me,

communication in leadership has changed dramatically. Do

you mean communication style? Or do you

mean,

just technology style?

Yes. And the way it happens, okay. Absolutely.

I mean, you could look at something as

simple as attention span, when it comes to communication. And

were 20 years ago, it would be nothing to think of a speaker

speaking for an hour about a subject. I mean, that would

probably be too short, two and a half would be better. And now

it's okay, if you're going to go longer than 15 seconds, I'm not

going to be able to keep our audience's attention. So we need

to engage them with something, something rather

Isn't that something. I my granddaughter

called me last night or her mother FaceTime to me. She's

only four. And she stood there and she said, Hi, grandma. Do

you like my new sweatshirt? Mommy bought it for me? And I

said, it's lovely Amara, I said, I hear that you went somewhere

special today. Where did you go? Science World and then off she

went, but that was it. That was her attention span. It was gone.

And that to me is is epitomizes what, it's what it's like today

because you're right, it is so much more difficult to keep

people's attention.

So and and so there's the flip side of that.

So it's you know, the attention is changing technology, you

know, all the all All the reasons people talk about. So

our attention is changing, our attention spans are changing.

And so route rather than, you know, studying it, taking a

pause, reviewing it, asking about it and trying to

understand it, it seems like, a lot of times people are trying

to keep people engaged in the old way, rather than just let

them go, you know, it there, we definitely have, we definitely

have communication challenges in lots of areas, and a lot of it

has to do, I mean, so much of it has to do with, you know, first

there was the internet, and then there was the cell phone, and

now there's the AI, there's just so much change, we have these

tools, it's like, you know, back in the old days, when, I mean,

the really old days, when someone discovered fire, that

was a big deal. And we're kind of doing that right now. You

know, we could send up smoke signals, you know, there was

fire, we could, there was a big deal. And today, we have these

incredible tools. And different people think differently about

them. So my area of leadership and communication, you is

significantly changing. And I'm constantly, you know, as editor

in chief of leaders, a leader, I'm constantly died, try not to

write every column about, you know, this, this thing that I'm,

I'm I participate in, you know, as who I am, but I also am

observing, as someone who's constantly observing, you know,

this, this area of our, you know, of our, of our, our

humanity. So, a long time not too long ago, but in one of the

books, I think it was, it's probably coaching for

leadership. And then again, maybe in work is love made

visible. You just, I can look back at these older writings,

and see how, you know, I was thinking about it. You know, I

was thinking coaching for leadership, I was thinking about

communication, and how leaders communicate, and, you know,

should have three important messages, community clarity, you

know, consistency. And then, you know, the next book a couple of

years later, you know, now we have Snapchat, and people really

aren't paying attention. And now, again, even later, just

just watching the changes in this, this arena, and it just,

it affects everyone, it's not just me.

No, it does. It affects us, though, in different

ways, because people of our generation, now we have to learn

something new again. And it's, it's a little bit harder or a

little bit, you know, less comfortable than for the younger

people who, you know, are coming up with it, you know, and so,

but then that's what keeps us young, I think, too, is is if we

stay with the times, right? And instead of going to because I

hear a lot of, it's funny, you say that because I've see, I

listened to what you have to say, and what I've read and so

on, is like, Okay, you're with the times in a mature way, and

I'm leaning in good thing, not not a bad thing. But there are

some people who still hang on to the old way of doing things or

their the way things were in when they were in their prime,

let's say, and you can't you can't sustain that today. Right.

Does that making sense?

Yeah, that Yep, exactly. I agree. It cannot be

sustained. Just like we can't keep people engaged, who are now

have a shorter, intense attention span, can't force them

to stay engaged. No, chasing after them is kind of like non

stop. That's not the way let's let's let's stop for a second.

And, you know, just digest this for a moment.

Right? Yeah. So it's fascinating, really, to me.

So I know that so Marshall Goldsmith is which is a name

that I've known over the years as a personal development

leader, right on leadership, I suppose as well. He had an he

was like, like, like a Tony Robbins. Marshall Goldsmith,

Tony Robbins, Jim Rohn. Those people right. He was

definitely a thought leader and yes,

definitely, definitely in in that arena, I've worked with

both. So I worked with Tony Robbins many years ago,

definitely personal development. My personal development with

Tony, that's, that's what we worked on. And with Marshall, he

is an executive coach. So his his focus is working with

successful leaders to help them become even better for

themselves, their people and their teams. That's more in the

organizational business arena.

So I guess, you know, based on thinking about

leaders today, and them working on themselves to be better

leaders, what percentage of people in that stratosphere

actually do that? More than you would see it more, you know,

average level, like mid level leaders?

It's a really great question. And that's where

follow up is so important. Marshall, years ago, I think,

maybe 15 years ago, wrote an article and this is what his

coaching is based in. One of the really important aspects of his

coaching is that he, the article is called Leadership is a

contact sport. And it's based on a survey of 1000s and 1000s, of

leaders. And that follow up has everything to do with change. So

if a leader is going through the executive coaching process, then

there's the initial steps of, you know, review feedback,

deciding what to change, working with stakeholders, telling them

what you're going to change with the code, what the, the client

wants to change, and then, and then there's follow up. And our

perception of whether or not somebody changes, has a whole

lot to do with whether or not we think about it, that person,

they may change like crazy. And I may not even know because that

person hasn't said, hey, you know, I said I was gonna stop

telling you, you were I was going to stop yelling at people

in meetings. Have you noticed? I've been really working on

that. If I don't say something, the chances of people noticing

go down dramatically. Isn't that interesting?

That is interesting that because we go

back to leaders. It's how you beat how you are not not? What

was it?

It's a matter of how it's been not how to do. So

that's kind

of interesting that you still have to make that

connection with your team or your you know, the people that

you're leaning

to, especially if it's if you're if you're

working on behavioral change. So if I, if you meet me, and you

think I'm a nice person, then I don't really have too much to

worry about. But if you meet me, and you think I'm a jerk. And

then you know, I continue that behavior. And then I want to

change that behavior. I recognize it. The the you'll

you're going to go back to your default impression of me. Unless

you tell me otherwise or show unless i i asked you about it. I

mean, just even asking you. If you know how I'm doing. Just

even asking you is huge. Just That step alone, most people

will go Wow. So really, change isn't so much about me doing it

all by myself. Change has a lot to do with. That's, that's why I

always say it's working together towards a bright future change

has a lot to do with us being in this together.

And communicating. Right, which we

go back to living

birds super important.

Well, this Sara, we could go on and on. I think I

may have to ask you to come back. And I want it to be when

the documentary is out because I'm so excited

to meet you. Thank you so much. If anybody

wants to know anything about it, you just please please let me

know. Absolutely.

And when this airs, I will put a link to the

trailer as well and everything because I'm very excited for you

about it looks really fascinating. And just before you

go, I that's your main project, I think that you're working on

right now. Is it not what else are you working on?

I would call that's my that is the that is my

heart project. That's where my heart is.

So So yes, so we'll we'll stay tuned for that

and And just one little last question for you before, before

you go, well, actually two one is I'm really curious do you

use? Are you a person that all work and no play? Or do you have

fun sometimes too? What do you do when you're not working? Oh,

I

have a lot of fun.

What's your most fun thing to do?

This is an interesting story, and I'll make

it very quick for you. I like to go so some people like to do

Yes. Like some people like to be. I like those too. But I

really like to go so I like to go you know, get in my car, go

for a drive, go see music go see friends. I like to I just like

to go go traveling. I was recently in for gone for about a

month I went to the thinker's 50 event in London. Yes, yes.

I have heard about that first through Dorie

Clark, who has been a guest on my show. And then Caroline, who

you is Carolyn? Carolyn, thank you introduce you. She was

there, right?

Yes. And yes, exactly. And I. And then I took

myself on a little trip after that to Scotland and went, I've

been traveling around a little bit. So I have now. I have now

landed.

Oh, that's fantastic. Thank you. And last

question, what's your favorite piece of thought, you know,

thought leadership to share with my audience.

So, for me, it comes from the teachings of

Francis and Alan Mulally. And it's this phrase, our one life

is our life's work, which is our love made visible.

I will say that one more time,

our life's work. Our one life or one life is our

life's work. Which is our love. made

visible. Beautiful. Thank you. Thank you

so much for being here. Sarah, there's so much to to dive into

more. So I look forward to having you back and seeing the

documentary when, when it when it airs. Thank you again for

being here. And thank you to my audience. If you like what you

heard, please leave a review and go I do encourage you to go and

and and dig in and find out some information about Sarah McArthur

and Francis hasslein. Because this is going to be defining

moments is the name of the the documentary that's coming out.

And she was quite some lady. I'll tell you that was quite

interesting. So I'm excited for you. So remember to everybody

here to stay connected and be remembered