Mission First: Dr. Rich Stowell on the Warrior Ethos, Marriage, and Raising Kids with Purpose

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Welcome back to the Broker's Table.

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Today I've got a very special guest, my husband, Dr. Rich Stowell.

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Rich is a PhD in Communications, a first sergeant in the Army,

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and the Director of Communications at Alpine School District.

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But at home, he's just a guy wrangling kids, making us laugh.

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And what else do you do?

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That sounds like first sergeant duties at home.

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I make our Sunday meals.

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Yes, he does, and I appreciate that.

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Today we're talking about faith, family, interracial marriage,

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raising kids in the phone era, and what trust looks like,

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whether in an Army, in schools, or in marriage.

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Rich, welcome to my table for once.

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Thank you for inviting me.

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I'm glad you're here.

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What do you want to talk about?

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So let's talk about a few things.

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The first question that I have for you is,

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what moment locked you into Communications as you're calling?

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What moment?

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I always saw myself as being a teacher.

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I mean, you know that.

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When we met in school, I was preparing to become a teacher in California.

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That was fun.

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Like teaching and coaching.

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That was a lot of fun.

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And then also, as you know, after a year or so,

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it was about two years of teaching, I felt this urge to join the military.

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I can't really explain where that came from,

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but I wasn't following a particular goal there.

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I just wanted to do that.

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And when that recruiter was visiting us,

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I was like, well, what can I do in the military?

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I didn't really know much about what the options were.

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And I remember he showed me a list.

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Just a piece of paper.

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There's a list of all of the jobs you can do in the military.

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And the one of them that stood out as the most interesting was journalism.

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So that's what I was trying to for in the military.

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And then of course, I did a couple of deployments and it just fascinated me.

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Every aspect of communication, the way they had us do it in the army fascinated me.

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So they had us do strategic communication.

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They had us doing storytelling embedded with different units, you know,

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profile, social media, some marketing, some stuff for recruiting.

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And it was just such a dynamic part of military life that,

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that's a lot of fun, continues to be fun.

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I mean, I'm still doing it.

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I'm still loving it after all these years.

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So I think probably if I could pin it down to a moment,

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it might be one of my first classes at Din Faux,

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the Defense Information School.

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That was the school that I went to after basic training.

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I remember that.

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A lot of fun.

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A lot of really smart people going through that school.

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A lot of smart people teaching.

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Maybe there wasn't one moment, but it's just like there are moments.

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But accumulation of?

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Yeah, they build on one another.

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But I think that might be where it started.

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So I'd like to add to the fact that you said you looked at a list of things

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and then you just chose one.

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Now, that's really not how things work in the military.

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We have to take the Asvab and the Asvab helps determine where you're going to be placed.

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Tell us about the Asvab.

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I was not a doctor when I took the Asvab.

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I did have a master's degree in teaching mathematics.

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And I've only taken the Asvab one time.

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I don't know if they change it up.

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I mean, I take tests seriously.

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You know, I somewhat enjoy taking tests.

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We catch that.

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He says he enjoys taking tests.

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I don't know anyone I've ever met in my life that enjoys taking tests.

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You talk to a lot of people sometimes and they say,

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Oh, I'm like, I know this stuff or I'm smarter than this.

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I'm just not good at test taking.

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I heard that from my students.

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I'm just not good at taking tests.

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I am not that smart.

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I'm just pretty good at taking tests.

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So I think the tests that I take, they sort of inflate my actual knowledge.

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But in any way, I disagree, but go ahead.

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I took the test.

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I took it seriously and I scored very, very high.

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In fact, and I think the fact that I was teaching math at the time,

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that I took that test really, really helped me.

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I mean, I just breezed through that math section and that's probably a big weighted section of the test.

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But yeah, when I got finished taking the test, they score it instantly.

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And there's always a sergeant moving you along or processing some paperwork or telling me what to do.

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And there was a sergeant who was administering the test and when he was like, he couldn't believe he's like,

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Wait, what?

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He saw my score and he's like, well, that's pretty good.

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And he moved me on and he circled it and stuff.

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So when my recruiter saw that score, he's like, yeah, you can do anything you want in the army.

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And I was like, sweet.

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Thank you.

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Okay, Dr. Witch does not like inflating his, you know, blowing his own horn.

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So I'm going to blow your horn for you.

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He scored a 99 on the Asvab.

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Right?

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Not.

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Yes.

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The percentile.

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And I feel like they just took off a point just because they didn't want you to have 100%.

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They didn't take off a 99 is the highest score.

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Okay.

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But that was really impressive.

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And you continue to do that.

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Every single time.

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I know you're a very humble person.

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So you don't want to make it seem like it's a big deal, but it is a big deal for me because

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I'm one of those individuals that struggle with taking tests.

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So when I see someone who has that natural gift, it's so important for me to acknowledge it

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and let you know how cool you are because that is something that is not very easy for other people to do.

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So I will blow your horn right now and just kudos to you for your abilities.

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Thank you.

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I'm not good at conversation.

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Really?

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With people, I'm not good at managing difficult or awkward situations with people.

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You're very good at that.

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I feel like growing up, I was more introverted and I was kind of maybe in the shadows of

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my high achieving brothers a little bit.

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So naturally, I didn't put myself out there and maybe I just made up for it on like, let

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me show them another way that I can get through life because I wasn't charismatic growing up.

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I was totally the shy one.

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I'd have nothing to add into conversations.

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I would try to avoid conversations.

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So yeah, I probably just spent my time scheming and trying to figure out how I could impress

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people without having to interact with them.

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You definitely picked a good skill that I've seen bless your life and bless our family because

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you're good at it.

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So thank you for that.

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Well, let's move on to the next question.

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Let's talk about our marriage.

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At what point did you realize that it was going to be a stretch or it wasn't going to

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be as easy as I made what you thought?

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No?

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I've never thought that.

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Okay.

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There was one moment that sort of made me think in a different way, but it was never a stretch.

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When was it?

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When did you leave the hall with all the chairs?

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That's a good story.

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I'll tell that momentarily.

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It was 2004.

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I don't know.

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I don't think we were engaged at the time, but we were getting serious and I talked to my

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dad, you know, we probably talked once a week or something.

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And in those conversations, like, are you dating somebody or anything like that?

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Those kinds of things would come up.

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And so I told him about you.

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And he's like, oh, that's great.

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You know, glad things were going well with Esther.

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And of course, he hadn't met you or even seen a picture of you at that time.

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He just said I was like some 83 year old grandma.

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But I volunteered.

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I said, well, she's black.

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And I don't remember his reaction.

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I didn't like catch my off guard.

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He probably was just like, oh, you know, like, why are you telling me this?

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And then I followed it up with, is that going to matter?

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And he said, no.

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And we kind of moved on.

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And I don't know why I felt compelled to like just check.

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But yeah, I don't think the fact that we're from different racial backgrounds that I don't

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think that's ever been like a source of stress for me.

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Now, there's been like those cultural things that are different, like independent of race,

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right?

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The cultural thing.

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And you mentioned all the tables in the hall or all the chairs.

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All the chairs.

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So when we're planning our wedding reception, we had a church up in Oakland.

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And, you know, we tried to involve as many people as we could in the planning of the

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sinks of some people from my family, some folks from your family took different parts of this

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reception planning.

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And we were checking in on them and we turned up at the reception hall one evening.

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I think it was probably the night before, yes.

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And this place was stuffed with, they must have brought in outside tables.

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This was a pretty big reception hall and all these round tables stuffed in there, like

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no room to even navigate between the tables once you got the chairs in there.

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And I was like, this is not conducive to the type of event we want to have where people

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have some freedom and they can move around and go mingle and talk.

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And yeah, we got in a fight with your uncle.

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And that was just a reminder to me that there was one thing that still stands out.

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From that episode, he was mad that I was challenging him.

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I was upset that he wasn't respecting our wishes.

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He seemed surprised that we even had wishes that we thought he should respect, right?

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I just thought this was totally up to him.

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I said, uncle, this is not your wedding.

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And he said, yes it is.

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And I realized in that moment we just came from different perspectives.

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And that's helped.

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No fights since then, right?

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With any of your...

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That's because we don't talk to people.

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On that day, I think what stood out was the fact that I got to learn how the typical

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LDS weddings and African weddings go.

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You know, with far I should say Nigerian weddings, we don't limit who can come by

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sending out specific invitations and people just show up.

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And so you just plan for a ton of...

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Plan for a thousand.

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Right.

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Right.

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Minimum.

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And then the typical LDS, you know, like the typical Mormon or LDS cultural weddings,

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it's people come in and line up.

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They greet people and then they kind of walk out and leave.

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They'll sit around for a little while and then they'll leave.

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And my little while, like very, very little while,

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whereas the Nigerian weddings, like people actually come to party.

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Like they're going to be dancing through the early hours of the morning.

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They're going to be eating the whole time and just hanging out.

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And that's the cultural clash that we were seeing where in my uncle's mind,

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he was setting up for people to come in and sit down and actually enjoy for a long while.

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I think we've navigated that pretty well.

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There's been times, I think, that my family hasn't been thrilled with some of our decisions.

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And I know your family probably hasn't been thrilled with some of our decisions.

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But it's been our decision.

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It's like it works for us.

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They can live with that.

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Yeah.

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We will.

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Okay.

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So we're still on a topic of interracial marriage.

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I will say that when you and I met, I mean, I obviously saw that you were white,

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but I saw beyond that.

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I saw the confidence of the man who walked up to me and said,

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Hi, I'm rich.

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And I just, I know in that moment, I thought, well,

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he's really confident.

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Like he just walked up to me and just spoke.

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And I had never really experienced that in that manner,

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where someone was very direct with their intentions.

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And I think that's why I was confused for a while when you kept inviting me to events.

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And I just kept thinking, maybe, maybe I'm reading this wrong.

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Maybe you just want to feel seats.

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And I'm just thinking, Oh my goodness, this incredibly handsome man is interested in me.

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And it wasn't until again, with you being very direct in your intentions,

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which I completely appreciated where you, we had a conversation and was very,

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it was very beautiful.

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I still remember that till today.

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But for a long while, I honestly did not really see us as being an interracial marriage,

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because your personality is just one that's just very open and free and just like,

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I don't see you bothered by things that most people are bothered by.

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And your reaction always catches me off guard because where I expect you to be mad,

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you're not mad, you're more reasonable, where I expect you to be, I don't know,

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just, you're just very different.

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And I think that's probably why that I never saw you as like rich, just white guy.

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You were just rich with this great personality, confident man.

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And it wasn't until, I think you were arguing with a cousin online one time.

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And they pointed out that, Hey, you should know better because you're in an interracial marriage.

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And I was like, he is?

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And it wasn't until that moment that it occurred to me that we were in an interracial marriage,

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even though I had seen that all the time, right?

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You see it in the movies, you see it in person, but I never once saw us as that.

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So that moment really caught me off guard too.

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So what has been your take in what everyone else sees in terms of like when they look at us

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as being an interracial marriage?

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How do you, how do you see our relationship in our marriage?

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I don't know, but there's been some episodes where they got me thinking about that a little

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bit more.

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Do you remember when we were in New York on the Staten Island Ferry coming back and this

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African American man started hitting on you and I wasn't sitting right next to you?

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So it looked like you were all by yourself and this guy starts hitting on you.

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And I'm like, I didn't feel insecure.

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I didn't, I mean, like this guy was, he couldn't compete with me.

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So I just kind of went inside love.

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I was like, how's Esther going to handle this?

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And that was pretty funny.

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And he finally got to the point where it was obvious that he was hitting on you.

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I don't know if he asked for your number or if he asked if you were single or had a boyfriend

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or something.

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And then he pointed over to me if a few seats over and he said, yeah, I'm here with my

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husband and he looks at me with in like utter shock.

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But then he was like, he might have given me a fist bumper high five and he's like, good

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job.

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And I was like, I know.

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That's mostly how I feel like if we ever get looks or if there's a sense that people think

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we're odd and that doesn't happen often, I think it's going away.

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I don't think sometimes if you're looking for something, you will find it.

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But I think you and I have always had this like personality where it's just you and me.

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We're not really concerned with what the world is doing.

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It's just what is best for us and our family and the people that love us.

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And I look at it as opportunities.

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If we ever surprise somebody, we come in as a couple and it's a surprise that we're in

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a ratio.

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I look at it or I have looked at it in the past as an opportunity to show them what a

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healthy marriage could look like.

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And so then hopefully they quickly see beyond the race and they just see a relationship there.

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Good answer.

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So talk about, tell me about your dissertation.

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Your dissertation was on the Warrior Ethos.

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And I remember that because I had to do a lot of editing.

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You did.

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I'm so much so.

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You had to do a lot of prodding.

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So much so that I am now unable to read a text, read an email without finding errors.

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So thank you very much.

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But on that same note, how do you think the Warrior Ethos applies to schools, raising

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children and relationships?

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To me, the Warrior Ethos has become...

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Let's put a pen in that.

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Explain to us what the Warrior Ethos is.

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Okay, so it's a credo of US Army soldiers.

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When I went through basic training, everything was geared around trying to teach Army values.

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And one of the ways that they instill those values in new soldiers is they have us memorize

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and reflect on the soldiers' creed.

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Part of the soldiers' creed are these four statements that comprise the Warrior Ethos.

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I will always place submission first.

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I will never accept defeat.

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I will never quit.

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I will never leave a fallen comrade.

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Those statements help people navigate tough times.

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And in the Army, there's bound to be challenges.

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So those statements help soldiers make sense of what's going on around them and help them

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take action to do the right thing.

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Most of us aren't in combat, but we have these daily challenges.

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And so over the years, I've thought it was interesting if you live something like an

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Ethos, like a Warrior Ethos, you're going to have this, almost like this reservoir or

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this ready reaction for almost any challenge, right?

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Mission first.

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That's a pretty simple thing.

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I've got something to do.

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I'm going to get it done.

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And then I can complain.

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Or then I can rest.

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Or then I can move on, right?

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Mission first.

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Whatever the mission is for you in a given moment.

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Everybody has a mission.

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I think one of the things I've taught some of the young people I've worked with is if

333

: 00:17:04

you don't know what your mission is, then that's your mission.

334

: 00:17:06

You've got to figure that out.

335

: 00:17:07

Step one, right?

336

: 00:17:09

Don't quit.

337

: 00:17:10

Don't accept defeat.

338

: 00:17:11

Don't leave people behind.

339

: 00:17:12

Bring people along with you.

340

: 00:17:14

So I wanted to study that.

341

: 00:17:16

It was kind of fascinating to me because of how organizationally the Army decided on the

342

: 00:17:21

Warrior Ethos came at a particular time in our country's history and in the culture

343

: 00:17:28

that I think was a good fit.

344

: 00:17:30

But it was just I wanted to learn more about how that came about.

345

: 00:17:33

So that's what I studied for my dissertation.

346

: 00:17:35

And it's communication because organizations all over the world, big and small, most of

347

: 00:17:42

them have some sort of a mission statement.

348

: 00:17:45

And those mission statements are designed to help members of the organization get through

349

: 00:17:49

challenges, right?

350

: 00:17:50

I feel like in this case, the Army set the gold standard.

351

: 00:17:55

In that same tone, how do you feel that that applies to your job in communications in schools?

352

: 00:18:05

Again, mission first, that's the first part of the Warrior Ethos.

353

: 00:18:09

A true warrior is going to...

354

: 00:18:12

And let's just back up a little bit.

355

: 00:18:14

There's a distinction drawn between warriors and soldiers, right?

356

: 00:18:19

Soldiers serve the state.

357

: 00:18:20

Soldiers are professional.

358

: 00:18:22

Soldiers are paid.

359

: 00:18:24

Soldiers learn procedures.

360

: 00:18:27

And that's all good.

361

: 00:18:28

There's a time and a place for that.

362

: 00:18:29

But the reason the Army at the time wanted to instill an ethos around the Warrior is because

363

: 00:18:33

warriors are driven by something more than or deeper than the state.

364

: 00:18:39

They're motivated by a set of values that transcend any government, any political allegiance.

365

: 00:18:48

So it's kind of a value-driven proposition with the Warrior.

366

: 00:18:53

We think of warriors, and more often than not in our culture, warriors are venerated.

367

: 00:18:59

I still think back to the musical, The Greatest Showman.

368

: 00:19:04

And you know the story, these outcasts are brought together by this fellow who's trying

369

: 00:19:09

to set up his circus, and he gives voice to these people who are sort of downtrodden or

370

: 00:19:15

shunned.

371

: 00:19:17

And there's this great song, I think, and this is me.

372

: 00:19:20

And it's kind of like a protest on these outcasts.

373

: 00:19:23

They sing this beautiful song about how they're not going to hide anymore.

374

: 00:19:27

And one of the lines in that is, we're warriors.

375

: 00:19:29

That's what we've become.

376

: 00:19:31

We're warriors.

377

: 00:19:32

Yeah.

378

: 00:19:33

Don't mind my singing voice.

379

: 00:19:34

I think people look at warriors and they respect them, and they don't see soldiers.

380

: 00:19:39

Warriors are people who can overcome adversity.

381

: 00:19:42

They're fighting battles and they keep going and they conquer.

382

: 00:19:45

Whatever they need to conquer, it could be personal challenges.

383

: 00:19:47

It could be forces against them, challenges.

384

: 00:19:51

It could be family struggles.

385

: 00:19:53

Warriors persist and they fight and they overcome in schools.

386

: 00:19:59

We need more of a warrior mindset in schools.

387

: 00:20:01

So being a warrior in a school, whether you're a student, teacher, administrator, you're putting

388

: 00:20:06

your mission first and you're not quitting and you're not leaving behind a fallen comrade.

389

: 00:20:11

Like if somebody's falling behind you, you pick them up and you bring them with you and

390

: 00:20:15

everybody finishes the race.

391

: 00:20:17

The other thing that I've learned from the Army and the Warrior Ethos helps to reiterate

392

: 00:20:21

this is we do have a mission.

393

: 00:20:24

Whatever our calling is, whatever we're doing in life, mom, dad, kid, student, teacher,

394

: 00:20:29

whatever your job is, you have a mission.

395

: 00:20:31

Figure out what it is.

396

: 00:20:32

Be able to articulate that and then do those things that's going to help you accomplish

397

: 00:20:36

the mission.

398

: 00:20:37

I think people fail and they struggle in life when they lose sight of their mission and they

399

: 00:20:42

let life push them around.

400

: 00:20:46

Warriors don't do that.

401

: 00:20:47

Warriors are living in the same chaotic, sometimes crappy environment that the rest of us are

402

: 00:20:54

living in.

403

: 00:20:55

A warrior will look at that and say, okay, where are my obstacles?

404

: 00:20:59

Let me design a plan to avoid the obstacles, leverage the advantages that I have so that

405

: 00:21:07

I can accomplish a mission.

406

: 00:21:09

So it's you taking control of the situation and getting stuff done.

407

: 00:21:13

As you say all of this, it makes me think of our family and how we operate.

408

: 00:21:18

And I see a lot of the things that you're saying apply to everything that we do.

409

: 00:21:23

For instance, you in just us communicating.

410

: 00:21:26

I know that the way that I communicate with you has changed over time.

411

: 00:21:30

And I remember from the beginning, like communication has always been a very one of your strongest

412

: 00:21:35

suits.

413

: 00:21:36

And I know that because of that, it has made me communicate better.

414

: 00:21:41

By the way, you're way better.

415

: 00:21:43

And I am just more outspoken.

416

: 00:21:45

Right.

417

: 00:21:46

This should have become the master.

418

: 00:21:48

You're way better.

419

: 00:21:49

And when I was saying that, I was like, let Esther handle that because I cannot.

420

: 00:21:54

I would say absolutely say that you have helped me argue so much more efficiently and

421

: 00:22:03

better to the point that you and I don't even argue anymore.

422

: 00:22:07

Because I came into our relationship in a way that like I was shut down.

423

: 00:22:11

I didn't want to discuss it.

424

: 00:22:12

And you're like, no, we're going to talk about this.

425

: 00:22:15

And I hated it.

426

: 00:22:17

Absolutely hated it.

427

: 00:22:18

But over time, you being consistent with that.

428

: 00:22:21

Okay, we are in a relationship.

429

: 00:22:23

We want this relationship to work.

430

: 00:22:24

So we're going to find time to talk.

431

: 00:22:29

Definitely forced me to get over my like things I didn't like, didn't like having to address

432

: 00:22:34

things.

433

: 00:22:35

Because of that, it made me a better communicator.

434

: 00:22:38

So I, you may have gotten the PhD, but I definitely know that I thought I was learning along with

435

: 00:22:45

you.

436

: 00:22:46

And I absolutely appreciate that.

437

: 00:22:47

That dissertation is half yours.

438

: 00:22:49

Right.

439

: 00:22:50

I should just start putting my name, Dr. Esther Jackson stole.

440

: 00:22:53

Well, I'll mention this other story that you probably remember, but for anybody listening,

441

: 00:22:58

there was a moment towards the end of my doctoral program that I wanted to quit.

442

: 00:23:04

Do you remember that?

443

: 00:23:05

I totally wanted to quit.

444

: 00:23:07

It was too hard.

445

: 00:23:08

And I was like, is it really worth it?

446

: 00:23:10

And you just said, Nope, you are not quitting.

447

: 00:23:13

No, you're not.

448

: 00:23:14

You wouldn't allow me.

449

: 00:23:15

And so I appreciated that.

450

: 00:23:16

Absolutely not.

451

: 00:23:17

Yeah.

452

: 00:23:18

I think I was on my own.

453

: 00:23:19

I probably would have quit.

454

: 00:23:20

Do you remember what I told you?

455

: 00:23:22

Yeah.

456

: 00:23:23

Shall I share?

457

: 00:23:24

Go for it.

458

: 00:23:25

All right.

459

: 00:23:26

At that point, we had spent seven years in this program before we moved out here, we had

460

: 00:23:31

made the decision for me to start my business while you pursued your PhD.

461

: 00:23:37

And I had started my business and I was doing my part.

462

: 00:23:41

And so when you said you wanted to quit, I was like, absolutely not.

463

: 00:23:45

If you quit, then I would move back to California because we not move back to California because

464

: 00:23:53

I, you know, at that point, it wasn't so much about you anymore.

465

: 00:23:56

It was about our children.

466

: 00:23:58

I did not want to leave a legacy of quitting hard things.

467

: 00:24:01

And that was good.

468

: 00:24:02

And I think that's the lesson that stuck with me.

469

: 00:24:04

It's powerful for us to have those hard experiences so we can go back to our kids and be like, you

470

: 00:24:09

don't quit.

471

: 00:24:10

We don't quit in our family.

472

: 00:24:11

Right.

473

: 00:24:12

We don't quit.

474

: 00:24:13

We keep going.

475

: 00:24:14

We figure out ways to make it work.

476

: 00:24:15

It doesn't matter.

477

: 00:24:16

It doesn't mean you can't adjust.

478

: 00:24:17

Right.

479

: 00:24:18

We put a lot of adjustments, but don't quit.

480

: 00:24:19

And more importantly, I remember telling you like, I'll read all your papers.

481

: 00:24:21

I will show up in class with you.

482

: 00:24:22

Like, I will do whatever it takes to help you cross that finish line.

483

: 00:24:27

But you don't get to quit unless I get to have my seven years back.

484

: 00:24:31

And here we are.

485

: 00:24:33

And I remember thinking like it, for me, I really didn't care about that, like the,

486

: 00:24:37

the title that you were going to get.

487

: 00:24:39

It was about you finishing.

488

: 00:24:41

That's all I cared about because we are raising two beautiful boys and two very impressionable

489

: 00:24:48

girls.

490

: 00:24:49

And I want them to know, I don't want to just have to tell them what to do.

491

: 00:24:53

I need them to see our actions and see what we're doing because my mother's actions definitely

492

: 00:25:00

impacted me and who I became as well as my dad.

493

: 00:25:04

A lot of the things that my dad has done in his life.

494

: 00:25:06

What were your mother's actions that like inspire you?

495

: 00:25:10

Well, the biggest one was her relationship.

496

: 00:25:14

And even though in everyone's eyes, she quit.

497

: 00:25:17

But her reason for letting that go was so that she could be alive to see us today.

498

: 00:25:23

And I feel like that's an example of adjusting, right?

499

: 00:25:26

She knew her mission.

500

: 00:25:28

I think at some point she probably decided that it wasn't her purpose in life to please

501

: 00:25:34

your dad.

502

: 00:25:35

Yep.

503

: 00:25:36

She had to be true herself.

504

: 00:25:37

And that was her mission.

505

: 00:25:38

And she didn't, I don't think she quit the marriage.

506

: 00:25:41

She refused to quit herself because I think staying in that marriage would have been her

507

: 00:25:44

giving up on herself.

508

: 00:25:46

Absolutely.

509

: 00:25:47

And she refused to give up.

510

: 00:25:48

Absolutely.

511

: 00:25:49

And that's the legacy that she left for me and the legacy for me to stand up for myself.

512

: 00:25:53

You know, to just know what's right and stand up for it.

513

: 00:25:57

I love your mom.

514

: 00:25:58

I met her one time, right?

515

: 00:26:00

Yes.

516

: 00:26:01

Two times.

517

: 00:26:02

Yes.

518

: 00:26:03

Because we went to her house the second time.

519

: 00:26:04

Your mom's so cool.

520

: 00:26:05

Yes, she was absolutely amazing.

521

: 00:26:07

I tell people I didn't get the opportunity to grow up with her.

522

: 00:26:11

But so much of who she was is like in my DNA and in like so deep that like.

523

: 00:26:17

You got her optimism.

524

: 00:26:19

She's like relentlessly optimistic.

525

: 00:26:22

Uh-huh.

526

: 00:26:23

All we, her family's sorry.

527

: 00:26:24

She had a smile, big smile.

528

: 00:26:26

Yeah.

529

: 00:26:27

I'm like, what are you smiling about?

530

: 00:26:28

Yeah.

531

: 00:26:29

She was amazing.

532

: 00:26:30

And she was just so humble and she's ready to help everyone.

533

: 00:26:32

But she was not a, not a pushover.

534

: 00:26:35

And that was like the beautiful thing about it.

535

: 00:26:37

And I think that's what, sometimes I think that people confuse how kind I am to be a

536

: 00:26:42

pushover.

537

: 00:26:43

But you'll learn really quickly.

538

: 00:26:46

That's not the case.

539

: 00:26:47

Part of being in a marriage is being able to learn from one another.

540

: 00:26:51

And I think you and I have absolutely enjoyed that dynamic.

541

: 00:26:55

And one of those dynamics is my learning more about the war ethos and being able to apply

542

: 00:27:01

it into my organization that I run.

543

: 00:27:04

What was the first one of a warrior ethos?

544

: 00:27:07

I will always play submission first.

545

: 00:27:09

So when I do real estate, right?

546

: 00:27:11

And you know that I'm a realtor.

547

: 00:27:14

I keep the clients first, right?

548

: 00:27:17

And I'm not saying that clients are never wrong, but we keep them first and we want to

549

: 00:27:23

make sure that what they need comes first versus our needs.

550

: 00:27:27

And then the second one, never quit.

551

: 00:27:30

I expect our employees to be that way.

552

: 00:27:34

If there's an issue, I want them to go figure it out, go solve it.

553

: 00:27:38

And if you can't solve it, get help.

554

: 00:27:41

There are tools, there are people.

555

: 00:27:43

And that is my expectation, right?

556

: 00:27:46

Never quit.

557

: 00:27:47

That doesn't mean like you said, it doesn't mean that you shouldn't adjust.

558

: 00:27:50

But you need to keep going and figure out a solution.

559

: 00:27:54

And then the third, that means if you go out there and they tell you, oh, the door is shut,

560

: 00:27:58

find the window.

561

: 00:28:00

The window shut, find a crack.

562

: 00:28:02

And if that there is no visible cracks, air is still going into that building.

563

: 00:28:08

Find out how that air is getting in there and figure it out and get in and get the answer

564

: 00:28:11

or solutions it's needed.

565

: 00:28:12

Yeah.

566

: 00:28:13

And then the last one, don't leave anyone behind.

567

: 00:28:15

Don't leave anyone behind.

568

: 00:28:16

I absolutely feel and Tyler Perry set this in one of his acceptance.

569

: 00:28:22

I'm just kidding.

570

: 00:28:24

He's everybody.

571

: 00:28:25

He's white people's favorite black man.

572

: 00:28:26

Is that what he is?

573

: 00:28:27

I don't know.

574

: 00:28:28

I have no idea.

575

: 00:28:29

Don't get into a little bit.

576

: 00:28:30

I know in black women's favorite black man.

577

: 00:28:32

I don't know.

578

: 00:28:33

And then so Washington is black women's favorite black man.

579

: 00:28:36

Then so Washington, my man, man.

580

: 00:28:39

But this is how it works.

581

: 00:28:40

We get so distracted.

582

: 00:28:42

Tyler Perry said in his acceptance speech that he realized that what he was doing was

583

: 00:28:50

more than him, that he was helping other people come up.

584

: 00:28:54

So when he started his studio, that was what he was doing because he was now employing

585

: 00:28:59

people.

586

: 00:29:00

He went from running his own production company, pretty much single-handedly, to now having

587

: 00:29:06

a whole production company while he's hiring people, not just actors and actresses, people

588

: 00:29:12

to do just like landscaping.

589

: 00:29:14

Now he's creating an avenue for other people to rise.

590

: 00:29:19

And I see that as my legacy.

591

: 00:29:22

So when we talk about Never Leave Others Behind, that's what I think about.

592

: 00:29:26

Where when I'm out here doing these things, it's not just about me.

593

: 00:29:30

It's about the next generation, the next people that are going to be able to come up.

594

: 00:29:35

And I am so grateful that in just this short period of time, I have had the opportunity to

595

: 00:29:40

do that for someone.

596

: 00:29:42

I have been a few people and I look forward to doing more of that.

597

: 00:29:45

It's been beautiful to take what you do in your occupation as a soldier and allow me to

598

: 00:29:52

use some of that into what I'm doing as an employer.

599

: 00:29:55

I know that we do it as well in our family with our kids.

600

: 00:29:58

We have something where you also instituted this in the family where we had dress right

601

: 00:30:03

dress.

602

: 00:30:04

And so our kids now know how to put their shoes.

603

: 00:30:07

They're still struggling with it.

604

: 00:30:08

They know.

605

: 00:30:09

They don't do it.

606

: 00:30:11

They don't do it consistently, but they do know how.

607

: 00:30:14

And those are things that have been very, very instrumental in all that we do.

608

: 00:30:17

So I'm glad that you've had that training outside of just being a dad and a husband in

609

: 00:30:23

so many different areas of your life that has allowed me to apply to my business and

610

: 00:30:28

allow us to apply to our family and for us to continue to grow.

611

: 00:30:32

I appreciate that in the past.

612

: 00:30:34

This is one thing that we do.

613

: 00:30:36

And I thank you for it because I come with complaints and you're usually good with like,

614

: 00:30:40

OK, how can we solve?

615

: 00:30:42

What can we do to help the kids see what it is we're trying to teach them?

616

: 00:30:47

And maybe that's a teacher in you, but I love it.

617

: 00:30:50

And one of them was the no phones rule that we implemented.

618

: 00:30:54

How did that go?

619

: 00:30:56

We learned something that over a while ago.

620

: 00:31:01

And I haven't thought about that in a long time.

621

: 00:31:05

I mean, it wasn't like this grand momentous moment in our kids, but it was an interesting

622

: 00:31:09

experiment that we ran.

623

: 00:31:12

And I think about even now I'm thinking how much phone time or how much dependency on

624

: 00:31:19

a phone is too much for our kids.

625

: 00:31:23

Now in Alpine School District, well, the state of Utah passed legislation fairly recently that

626

: 00:31:28

basically banned cell phones in schools during instructional time.

627

: 00:31:33

Our district has increased the restrictions on phones in most of our classrooms.

628

: 00:31:39

So basically our high schoolers, they can have their phones at lunch and they can have

629

: 00:31:44

them out during passing periods.

630

: 00:31:46

Junior highs typically can have them out only during lunch and elementary schools no phone.

631

: 00:31:51

I think that's pretty prudent.

632

: 00:31:53

I always think about like, I worry that our kids are on their phones too much or in

633

: 00:31:58

front of a screen too much.

634

: 00:31:59

But what we learned when we tried to take it away, it was really hard.

635

: 00:32:03

It was impossible.

636

: 00:32:04

It's built into all of our routines, just the way that we operate.

637

: 00:32:09

Arms.

638

: 00:32:10

I feel like compared to other kids, our children do very, very well.

639

: 00:32:14

I don't feel like they're addicted.

640

: 00:32:17

I feel like they use their phones for good stuff as well as frivolous stuff.

641

: 00:32:23

I have their guilty pleasures that they do.

642

: 00:32:26

One of our sons dances a lot and he records a lot of dances.

643

: 00:32:30

I'm good with that.

644

: 00:32:31

He's dancing and he's doing what he loves and he's getting exercise.

645

: 00:32:34

He posts a TikTok and then he's worried about the views and the likes and stuff.

646

: 00:32:37

That worries me because if that's what's motivating him, I feel like that can become

647

: 00:32:42

a very vicious cycle.

648

: 00:32:43

But so far I don't think it's ruined him.

649

: 00:32:47

But I think it very easily can ruin kids.

650

: 00:32:49

Absolutely.

651

: 00:32:51

We tried taking their phones away and we realized it was like trying to hold back a river.

652

: 00:32:57

We relaxed a little bit.

653

: 00:32:58

But I think number one we learned, the trade-offs aren't as easy as a lot of parents think,

654

: 00:33:04

oh, just take the phone away.

655

: 00:33:05

I grew up without a phone, right?

656

: 00:33:07

And I often think, I mean, we were talking about our marriage and when I was explaining

657

: 00:33:13

how my dad hadn't seen a photo of you yet, that sounds strange now, right?

658

: 00:33:18

Because we're always taking photos and sharing my text.

659

: 00:33:21

This was back before we even had picture taking phones.

660

: 00:33:24

I mean, you and I each had a flip phone.

661

: 00:33:26

All it did was call.

662

: 00:33:27

I probably sent my first text a few years after we were married.

663

: 00:33:32

So of course he wouldn't see a picture of you.

664

: 00:33:34

There were no pictures to see.

665

: 00:33:37

It's strange to go back to that.

666

: 00:33:38

Now the digital connections are so ubiquitous, it's hard to take that out.

667

: 00:33:42

It's like removing something, you'd have to rip it out of the body.

668

: 00:33:45

It's like part of everything our kids do.

669

: 00:33:48

And the trade-off there is, are they going to be left out?

670

: 00:33:52

Are they going to be left behind by their peers?

671

: 00:33:54

We don't want to do that to them.

672

: 00:33:55

We don't want to make them the weird kids.

673

: 00:33:58

Like it wasn't weird growing up to not have a cell phone.

674

: 00:34:00

If they had to go to school.

675

: 00:34:02

Once everyone started having cell phones, if you didn't have a cell phone, it almost seemed odd.

676

: 00:34:07

So now as parents we're navigating that and it's just challenging.

677

: 00:34:11

And it's easy to criticize parents who go too far in one direction, but parenting is just hard.

678

: 00:34:19

And it's every day you're making a thousand decisions.

679

: 00:34:24

And one of which could have some pretty big consequences for your kids.

680

: 00:34:30

And the bottom line is you're never going to know which one will be the one that breaks

681

: 00:34:33

the camel's back.

682

: 00:34:35

But one of the things that I've learned with all of that was instead of trying to keep

683

: 00:34:39

them off of the phones, we teach them how to manage the phones.

684

: 00:34:46

That is what to watch on the phones, what not to watch on the phones, how to communicate

685

: 00:34:52

on the phones, what not to communicate through the phones.

686

: 00:34:56

I remember we talked about filming.

687

: 00:34:59

Make sure that things that have your location aren't visible on there.

688

: 00:35:04

Don't give people your addresses.

689

: 00:35:06

I think we saw a video where some kid talking to some grown man on one of the things he

690

: 00:35:11

was playing gave him the address and the guy showed up at his house wanting to date his

691

: 00:35:16

mom.

692

: 00:35:17

Wow.

693

: 00:35:18

We can have that.

694

: 00:35:20

No, but those are the things that I think the world is changing.

695

: 00:35:26

And we cannot stop that growth.

696

: 00:35:29

Yeah.

697

: 00:35:30

And instead of trying to stop it, I think what we need to focus on is how to help them navigate

698

: 00:35:36

it in a way that it won't ruin them.

699

: 00:35:39

I know that we mentioned our oldest son with his videos and his likes.

700

: 00:35:44

And I talked to him about that and I asked him, do you, I mean, it feels good, right?

701

: 00:35:48

To have those likes.

702

: 00:35:49

But if you didn't have those likes, would you still survive?

703

: 00:35:53

And he's like, yeah.

704

: 00:35:54

And so it's about having those conversations.

705

: 00:35:57

Instead of just seeing it and not having conversations with the kids, at least having

706

: 00:36:03

those conversations allow them to know that.

707

: 00:36:05

And now you're aware that they're aware.

708

: 00:36:08

And if they have an issue, it could be discussed.

709

: 00:36:11

And I think lots of different things motivate different people and the likes and the views

710

: 00:36:17

in and of themselves aren't a bad thing.

711

: 00:36:19

What I think is scary for parents is that those algorithms and the way that those platforms

712

: 00:36:26

are set up can very quickly, because everything's so fast, right?

713

: 00:36:29

You post a video and instantly you're getting likes and stuff.

714

: 00:36:33

And I've actually get impressed with Joseph.

715

: 00:36:34

He's got some videos with lots of likes.

716

: 00:36:37

And I'm like sometimes I watch stuff.

717

: 00:36:39

You're impressed.

718

: 00:36:40

I'm almost scared.

719

: 00:36:41

I know.

720

: 00:36:42

But work with it.

721

: 00:36:44

But it's so fast that feedback loop is happening so quickly with the kids that it perpetuates

722

: 00:36:49

or it encourages obsessive behavior.

723

: 00:36:52

Like it's one thing to publish a book and then you see how many people buy it over the

724

: 00:36:57

course of a few weeks.

725

: 00:36:58

And yeah, you can get excited about the sales or disappointed by the sales.

726

: 00:37:04

It takes time to see results.

727

: 00:37:06

So you start to feel better and you don't really notice it.

728

: 00:37:09

And six months later, you might look in the mirror and you're like, oh, wow, I'm a different

729

: 00:37:12

person now.

730

: 00:37:14

But because these things are happening two, three times a day, the feedback loop is so much

731

: 00:37:18

tighter now.

732

: 00:37:19

And it's a genius that it drives every behavior or for those who get obsessed.

733

: 00:37:24

They can drive everything they do, right?

734

: 00:37:26

They cannot think about other things other than how to get the next like or how to get

735

: 00:37:32

to that next level.

736

: 00:37:34

That's the scary part.

737

: 00:37:35

So I do think one thing that we've learned is you can tell the kids, but the phones down,

738

: 00:37:40

you know, we're going to have a day without phones or just a few hours without phones.

739

: 00:37:43

Let's go outside and hang out in the yard or go for a walk or something.

740

: 00:37:47

That's fine.

741

: 00:37:48

But I'll survive.

742

: 00:37:49

What are some things that we have implemented?

743

: 00:37:52

And when I say we, it's really you.

744

: 00:37:54

Again, I am so grateful for you for that because you come up with these things where you come

745

: 00:37:59

up with substantial things for us to do.

746

: 00:38:03

For about the last six months, we've been getting these status reports from our kids.

747

: 00:38:08

So we always have these family meetings and I love those meetings for the most part.

748

: 00:38:12

It's just a way to come together, remind kids that we're still there.

749

: 00:38:15

They can't wander too far away without us bringing them back in, right?

750

: 00:38:19

And check in with them.

751

: 00:38:20

And they're just very practical meetings.

752

: 00:38:23

Recently, we've implemented this reporting system that we call SF squared, SF.

753

: 00:38:28

So S is what school, the other S is sleep one F is family and friends.

754

: 00:38:35

So they need to report on those four things.

755

: 00:38:37

And all they have to do is it's good, right?

756

: 00:38:40

So they'll say like school, okay, friends, good, family, good, sleep, not good.

757

: 00:38:49

And then you and I can follow up later and correct that because sleep is super important.

758

: 00:38:56

So I think that's been helpful.

759

: 00:38:58

That was inspired because you and I went to couples retreat like a relationship workshop,

760

: 00:39:04

marriage workshop.

761

: 00:39:06

It's also nice to be able to tell them that we're constantly working on stuff, right?

762

: 00:39:09

We're trying to learn and improve.

763

: 00:39:11

Again, more action less talking.

764

: 00:39:13

Yeah.

765

: 00:39:14

Just show them what you're doing.

766

: 00:39:16

I know when they give us their status report, they don't really say much, but what I love

767

: 00:39:23

about it is the fact that they know that we're asking about these things.

768

: 00:39:27

And because it's so structured, it'll be memorable because we do care.

769

: 00:39:32

We do care about their sleep.

770

: 00:39:33

We do care about their friends.

771

: 00:39:34

We do care about school.

772

: 00:39:37

And we do care about the family and how they're going to love it.

773

: 00:39:40

You've done really well is you've taught our kids to be honest.

774

: 00:39:43

Yes.

775

: 00:39:44

I did not grow up in an honest home.

776

: 00:39:47

And if my parents heard this, they might be disappointed.

777

: 00:39:51

We were not taught to lie.

778

: 00:39:52

It wasn't like that, but it was like I did not share feelings.

779

: 00:39:56

It wasn't honesty.

780

: 00:39:57

It wasn't that I grew up in a dishonest home.

781

: 00:39:59

It was okay to not be fully candid all the time.

782

: 00:40:03

And you've taught our kids to be candid about everything.

783

: 00:40:05

I mean, the stuff that Joseph will talk to us about, it's like, I love it.

784

: 00:40:11

I love that opportunity to connect with him and influence him.

785

: 00:40:14

But I'm like, I would never have shared that with my dad growing up different era.

786

: 00:40:19

But I think that's a credit to you because you can have these conversations with all of

787

: 00:40:23

our kids about hard things and or uncomfortable things.

788

: 00:40:26

Uncomfortable things.

789

: 00:40:27

I have no problem with it.

790

: 00:40:28

And they have it though.

791

: 00:40:29

They get through it.

792

: 00:40:30

I'm not as good.

793

: 00:40:31

But I think that for me comes out of like a necessity, right?

794

: 00:40:35

Because I didn't have that opportunity to even say anything just to speak freely.

795

: 00:40:39

And you know, I tell them the story of when I came to the United States, I never once

796

: 00:40:44

had the opportunity to just speak up and ask why or what's happening.

797

: 00:40:50

Well, and you do that like with your clients and with the your business partners too.

798

: 00:40:55

You just let them know exactly what what you're thinking.

799

: 00:40:58

But the thing that is impressive is there's never any hard feelings, right?

800

: 00:41:02

You can deliver bad news with a smile.

801

: 00:41:06

I can't do that.

802

: 00:41:08

Well, thank you.

803

: 00:41:09

I just I don't have the patience.

804

: 00:41:11

I don't have the patience to sugarcoat things.

805

: 00:41:13

Yeah, it saves time.

806

: 00:41:14

If we spend time beating around the bus, what the most valuable thing we have on this earth

807

: 00:41:18

is time, right?

808

: 00:41:20

So I want to use my time very, very wisely.

809

: 00:41:23

And so if we're sitting around and someone is spending three hours with something that

810

: 00:41:28

they could have accomplished in like 30 seconds, I'm going to be upset because you

811

: 00:41:32

just wasted three hours of my life.

812

: 00:41:34

So get to the point and I do get like that.

813

: 00:41:36

You know, after a few seconds of giving me this flowery.

814

: 00:41:40

Yeah, like that's another thing he does very well.

815

: 00:41:43

You spend so much time just like painting this big old masterpiece when this, you know,

816

: 00:41:48

right in the corner here is like what we should have all focused on.

817

: 00:41:51

So it's something that annoys me.

818

: 00:41:53

And so I don't like wasting other people's time.

819

: 00:41:55

So get to the point.

820

: 00:41:56

So let's talk briefly about how being married to you has definitely shaped my life as an

821

: 00:42:03

entrepreneur, as a mother, and especially as a wife.

822

: 00:42:08

Now growing up as a Nigerian, there are certain things that's expected from a wife culturally.

823

: 00:42:16

And those things I don't do in our relationship.

824

: 00:42:18

And it's really hard sometimes for me because we were talking about that this morning I walked

825

: 00:42:23

into our kitchen and you were there making oblitz for the whole family.

826

: 00:42:27

And I told you, you know what, I feel really bad watching you in that kitchen making that

827

: 00:42:32

on.

828

: 00:42:33

She let me make the omelette.

829

: 00:42:34

She didn't feel that bad.

830

: 00:42:35

She ate it.

831

: 00:42:37

Absolutely.

832

: 00:42:38

But then we talked about it and you said, what did you say you said?

833

: 00:42:40

I said, so you don't feel bad.

834

: 00:42:42

I said, what are you going to do with that guilt with that guilt?

835

: 00:42:44

Nothing.

836

: 00:42:45

Nothing.

837

: 00:42:46

Absolutely nothing.

838

: 00:42:47

I had a chance to kind of ponder why I was feeling bad.

839

: 00:42:53

And even like just to think about why I mean what I'm really feeling is it that I'm feeling

840

: 00:42:57

bad because I don't feel guilty.

841

: 00:43:00

So what it came down to was shame.

842

: 00:43:02

I was feeling shameful because I grew up with the notion that the wife cooks and prepares

843

: 00:43:09

food for her husband.

844

: 00:43:11

And you know, the husband comes back from work and is like, there's this plate set up for

845

: 00:43:15

him and he just comes and eat and we even bring him water to wash his hands.

846

: 00:43:20

And then he just gets up and goes and sits down and watches TV and then goes to bed.

847

: 00:43:25

Well, so do you feel like that I've kicked that habit out of you because I don't like

848

: 00:43:31

Nigerian food?

849

: 00:43:32

Well, that's one issue.

850

: 00:43:34

One reason you don't like Nigerian food.

851

: 00:43:36

So like the preparation of like the big feast is not even there because secondly you don't

852

: 00:43:42

eat a lot.

853

: 00:43:43

And like you don't eat like the typical Nigerian man.

854

: 00:43:47

They would have their mound of fufu and like, so that's two.

855

: 00:43:50

And then half the time when I remember I used to call him say, hey, you're going to be

856

: 00:43:53

home and thinking, oh, you might want something to eat.

857

: 00:43:56

And you're like, no, I already got McDonald's.

858

: 00:43:58

Well, I think about this.

859

: 00:44:00

It goes back to the mission first attitude.

860

: 00:44:04

What is the goal of eating?

861

: 00:44:05

When you're coming off from work, maybe this is like overthinking it.

862

: 00:44:09

But the goal of eating most of the time is to get enough calories in for you.

863

: 00:44:14

To go another day doesn't have to be fancy, right?

864

: 00:44:17

That's a practical thing.

865

: 00:44:18

It's a necessity thing.

866

: 00:44:19

And so we're not like, there's no reason to overeat.

867

: 00:44:22

Now, sometimes the point of eating is family, right?

868

: 00:44:27

Getting together, having a conversation at the dinner table or celebrating.

869

: 00:44:30

In those cases, yeah, I can, I can keep up with people.

870

: 00:44:33

This is what I'm talking about.

871

: 00:44:35

Eating how I want to eat to be healthy.

872

: 00:44:37

So it's like, I've recognized that I'm older and my body can't handle the same amount

873

: 00:44:43

of calories in the same diet that our teenage boys can.

874

: 00:44:48

And I look back on those days fondly when I could put it down a couple of double cheeseburgers,

875

: 00:44:53

no problem.

876

: 00:44:54

Like our kids can do.

877

: 00:44:56

I don't miss it though.

878

: 00:44:57

I'm like, I don't need that.

879

: 00:44:58

That's not what I need at my stage in life now.

880

: 00:45:01

You don't have to feel shame anymore.

881

: 00:45:04

That's one of the reasons why it's been difficult.

882

: 00:45:06

It used to be very hard initially for me to switch from that.

883

: 00:45:10

Because what I realized now that I was feeling was shame.

884

: 00:45:12

What if a Nigerian person walks into my house and saw you in the kitchen cooking?

885

: 00:45:16

What would they think?

886

: 00:45:17

I'm at the point in my life where I don't care what they think.

887

: 00:45:19

So that's fine.

888

: 00:45:20

But they're still part of me that feels things about, oh, maybe I'm not taking care of you

889

: 00:45:24

well the way that I'm supposed to.

890

: 00:45:27

But then I also realize that I don't give you headaches like most people do.

891

: 00:45:33

Another thing that's a little different is when I'm doing my hair, are you coming and you're

892

: 00:45:36

like, you're still doing your hair?

893

: 00:45:38

I'm like, yes.

894

: 00:45:39

Yes, it's been 16 hours.

895

: 00:45:40

I know.

896

: 00:45:41

But it's the cultural thing, right?

897

: 00:45:43

It's just very different, but it doesn't stop me from doing my hair.

898

: 00:45:46

Another thing that you definitely do is you're very, very involved with the children.

899

: 00:45:52

That is something that's different from how I grew up.

900

: 00:45:55

Like the children were just there to entertain dad when he came home from work for like a

901

: 00:45:59

little bit of time and then they would go to bed.

902

: 00:46:02

But you are very involved with the kids and it's beautiful to me.

903

: 00:46:05

Like sometimes I'm just in such awe of you.

904

: 00:46:09

I feel like I'm not as involved as I should be.

905

: 00:46:12

You have no idea.

906

: 00:46:13

Maybe you have a different standard, but for me, I know that they can come to you for anything.

907

: 00:46:19

That's number one.

908

: 00:46:21

Like you said, there are some times that Joseph tells you things and you're like, I wish I

909

: 00:46:25

didn't, I wish I didn't hear that, but it's okay.

910

: 00:46:27

I'm just going to take it in.

911

: 00:46:30

And that's a very huge thing for the child to be able to come to you and just say, hey,

912

: 00:46:34

I'm having this problem with this girl.

913

: 00:46:37

Or what do you think?

914

: 00:46:38

Those are beautiful conversations that I see them having.

915

: 00:46:41

And then Gabriel, like you running with him, you know, that's also something that's beautiful.

916

: 00:46:45

And I feel like every child in our household has this connection with you.

917

: 00:46:51

Like very deep connection, even though they still call me for everything, mom.

918

: 00:46:56

But I think that's just a very natural thing that happens in all families.

919

: 00:47:00

I recently saw this video of these dads pretending to be their daughters.

920

: 00:47:05

And then one of them says, dad, where's mom?

921

: 00:47:10

Where's mom?

922

: 00:47:11

And then the daughter says, I don't need you.

923

: 00:47:13

I need mom.

924

: 00:47:14

Like you can't answer my question.

925

: 00:47:16

I need mom.

926

: 00:47:17

And I think part of it is just moms, we know where everything is at because we know someone

927

: 00:47:21

is going to ask us for it.

928

: 00:47:23

So we go around the house like looking, scanning like, okay, I need to mentally know that that

929

: 00:47:28

that sock is over there because so and so it's going to ask me in a few hours and it always

930

: 00:47:32

happens anyway.

931

: 00:47:33

So going back to just the things that you do versus culturally that you do that I didn't

932

: 00:47:38

grow up with, the way that you are with me is also beautiful to me because I feel like

933

: 00:47:44

you allow me to be myself and you give me the space to be me like wholeheartedly.

934

: 00:47:52

And I don't feel like there's anything that I want to accomplish in this life that you

935

: 00:47:56

will ever have a problem with.

936

: 00:47:58

And perhaps it's just that you trust me and you see like my value and qualities.

937

: 00:48:03

I don't give you questions to think that I'm going to do something dumb but I enjoy that.

938

: 00:48:10

I enjoy the space that you give me to do those things.

939

: 00:48:12

And so like we're sitting here at my podcast and running my company but it's all ours, right?

940

: 00:48:19

And I know how how do couples survive worried about each other all of that.

941

: 00:48:25

I mean I feel like we give each other space.

942

: 00:48:27

I can't admit I think it would be too stressful if we were always keeping tabs on each other

943

: 00:48:32

and up in each other's business.

944

: 00:48:33

I mean you you're running your business and you're talking to people and I don't I can't

945

: 00:48:38

keep track of it all.

946

: 00:48:39

It's a lot.

947

: 00:48:40

I mean I'm aware of what you do and we check in but it's not like there's oftentimes when

948

: 00:48:46

I'll come home and you're gone.

949

: 00:48:48

And I'm like where's mom?

950

: 00:48:51

And the kids are like you're also asking where's mom.

951

: 00:48:53

I think she went to a meeting and I'm like okay she's doing her thing right.

952

: 00:48:58

And it'd be so much energy for me to know exactly what you're up to all the time and

953

: 00:49:03

what you're getting out of it, right?

954

: 00:49:04

I don't know how people stress themselves to death if they try to maintain that and you're

955

: 00:49:10

the same way like I'm busy with stuff.

956

: 00:49:13

You're generally aware of what's happening but there's times when it's like oh I got to

957

: 00:49:18

go out of town for drill weekend and you're like oh yeah that's already coming up okay

958

: 00:49:23

we'll adjust.

959

: 00:49:24

I think we've been very like flexible with because knowing that there's no way we're

960

: 00:49:31

going to have a tight plan on everything and that's what's kept our relationship healthy

961

: 00:49:35

is we have just the right amount of flexibility and allowance for each other to do our own thing.

962

: 00:49:42

Yeah I remember whenever you're out of town your parents will call me and say oh where's

963

: 00:49:49

which I'm like I have no idea but he is somewhere that he's supposed to be and there are times

964

: 00:49:57

I used to feel bad at the beginning but now I think they know so they don't even bother

965

: 00:50:01

but they still ask and sometimes they know where you are before I do but I don't need

966

: 00:50:07

to have it on the forefront of my mind to be able to give that answer whenever anyone

967

: 00:50:11

asks for it.

968

: 00:50:13

I have chocolate every time they ask me that because it's just like I shoot no and that is

969

: 00:50:17

a legitimate question but I just there's too much going on.

970

: 00:50:21

I'm trying to keep track of those that I am in care of at the moment.

971

: 00:50:26

I need to know to pick up someone from crew or from school or from visiting a friend so

972

: 00:50:32

right now I can only deal with what I can control and riches a grown man if he can't

973

: 00:50:38

figure out his flight and his sometimes I worry that I can't but I trust you to handle

974

: 00:50:44

your business but anyways that's just been like a lot of differences that I have seen

975

: 00:50:49

in our relationship and how I think being married with you and the flexibility that I

976

: 00:50:53

have to be myself has been really really great.

977

: 00:50:56

One more thing I would say that I knew that you were someone that would give me the space

978

: 00:51:03

to be me and I think that was one of the things that attracted me to you because you were

979

: 00:51:08

in school I was in school you were doing something completely different from what I was studying

980

: 00:51:13

and you also worked and somehow we were able to have a relationship we were able to date

981

: 00:51:20

and still do those things independently.

982

: 00:51:22

You never once asked me to drop out of school so I can have babies and you know take care of our

983

: 00:51:28

babies you never once asked me to start a family when you knew very well that I wasn't ready for that

984

: 00:51:35

so those were the things and those are the things I dealt with in other relationships so just that simple

985

: 00:51:41

well you're welcome. I can't like empathize with somebody who would think otherwise like

986

: 00:51:48

why wouldn't you want to marry someone who's independent and powerful that makes me better

987

: 00:51:54

makes our family better whenever you know that's gonna happens to me it just felt natural

988

: 00:52:00

but you add to each other's cup you don't subtract and I think that's what we do very well is the

989

: 00:52:06

support. We don't compete. Not at all. We compliment. Yep. I can't even compete with you because your

990

: 00:52:12

strides are way too long for me and I try to figure out is how do you take two steps and I'm still

991

: 00:52:19

on my two steps but way behind that's what I'm trying to figure out but I appreciate you not

992

: 00:52:24

competing or making me feel like I needed to be in competition with anything but always being

993

: 00:52:30

very complimentary to each other and and I hope and pray for many more years of this to come.

994

: 00:52:38

And you got it. Because aww. You are the cutest. You are the absolute cutest.

995

: 00:52:44

So we mentioned before at the beginning that you are the Director of Communications

996

: 00:52:49

for Alpine School District which is one of the largest school districts in Utah. It's the largest

997

: 00:52:54

school district in Utah. Yeah it's one of the largest in the country. Oh largest in Utah. Go ahead.

998

: 00:52:59

Again I'm learning something every day but here's the thing recently there was the shooting,

999

: 00:53:05

the assassination essentially of Charlie Kirk at Utah Valley University which is near in

: 1000

00:53:14,050 --> 00:53:19,250

Alpine. That's in our district. In Alpine District. So if you lived at Utah Valley University you would

: 1001

00:53:19,250 --> 00:53:24,769

be in one of our school boundaries in Alpine School District. Tell me about how that has affected

: 1002

00:53:24,769 --> 00:53:29,809

you as a Director of Communications for that school district. Yeah being the Director of

: 1003

00:53:29,809 --> 00:53:35,409

Communications for a school district is never dull. It's an incredible job. I love it. It's a

: 1004

00:53:35,409 --> 00:53:42,530

challenge every single day. It's a very dynamic position. When I took that job and I think most

: 1005

00:53:42,530 --> 00:53:47,409

people that have equivalent roles would agree the thing that scares me the most is a school

: 1006

00:53:47,409 --> 00:53:52,690

shooting. That's what we have to be prepared for. It probably won't happen statistically it probably

: 1007

00:53:52,690 --> 00:53:56,289

wouldn't happen in one of our schools. But that's the thing that would scare me the most.

: 1008

00:53:56,289 --> 00:54:01,329

In terms of like being a challenge for the job and making things harder for people by getting

: 1009

00:54:01,329 --> 00:54:09,570

the communications wrong. I was driving back to the office from a 9-11 event when I on our

: 1010

00:54:09,570 --> 00:54:15,570

emergency chat started learning that there was an incident at Utah Valley University which is

: 1011

00:54:15,570 --> 00:54:21,219

right next door to one of our schools. And so we were just following procedures everybody was

: 1012

00:54:21,219 --> 00:54:26,340

getting information. Our school was put on secure at that moment. And so when I saw that come through

: 1013

00:54:26,340 --> 00:54:30,340

the chat I pulled over and I knew I had to pay attention to this and figure out what was going

: 1014

00:54:30,340 --> 00:54:38,400

on because we had to get communication out. As those details emerged we recognized that we were

: 1015

00:54:39,119 --> 00:54:44,320

in the middle of probably one of the biggest news items that this state has ever seen and

: 1016

00:54:44,320 --> 00:54:49,760

something that ended up being international news. And so the pressure was on and we had our

: 1017

00:54:49,840 --> 00:54:56,719

procedures we have a great team in Alpine. It got tense but we were able to use our procedures

: 1018

00:54:56,719 --> 00:55:01,840

and our relationships to work through those challenges get the messages out to parents.

: 1019

00:55:01,840 --> 00:55:06,320

Essentially what happened was five of our schools were placed on the secure status because

: 1020

00:55:06,320 --> 00:55:12,480

there was this gunman on the loose in proximity to many of our schools. And so we had safety

: 1021

00:55:12,480 --> 00:55:17,619

procedures we had to communicate that out to parents. A lot of parents were really stressed

: 1022

00:55:17,940 --> 00:55:25,780

upset. Part of it is because it was so violent. Episode itself I don't know how history will look

: 1023

00:55:25,780 --> 00:55:31,619

back on the episode itself in terms of like the cultural and political implications but it was

: 1024

00:55:31,619 --> 00:55:38,179

just sheer violent. And so that impacts us because we had come to find out we had students

: 1025

00:55:38,739 --> 00:55:44,500

at the event front row. They like took the school day off to go see Charlie Kirk speak. We had other

: 1026

00:55:44,500 --> 00:55:50,500

we had employees I think who were there. We had UVU students who ran to our school property looking

: 1027

00:55:50,500 --> 00:55:57,940

for shelter cover. So it impacted us in a variety of ways and we as a district communication team we

: 1028

00:55:57,940 --> 00:56:04,260

drew on our experiences and our procedures and we got out the messages. We were able to I think

: 1029

00:56:04,260 --> 00:56:10,099

for the most part calm families we were able to help schools navigate the crisis by getting out

: 1030

00:56:11,000 --> 00:56:16,199

information quickly to the community and to families so they didn't have to worry about that. I mean

: 1031

00:56:16,199 --> 00:56:21,000

when a school goes on secure or on a lockdown or something like that what's the first thing a

: 1032

00:56:21,000 --> 00:56:25,559

parent wants to do. Parents will go to school and pick up their kid right can't happen. You can't

: 1033

00:56:25,559 --> 00:56:30,760

have parents come to school like that school is locked. Nobody's getting in nobody's going out

: 1034

00:56:30,760 --> 00:56:36,039

till we learn from the law enforcement agencies that it is safe to go outside and we didn't know

: 1035

00:56:36,119 --> 00:56:42,599

that for a few hours. So we had to assure parents that their students were safe that we were cooperating

: 1036

00:56:42,599 --> 00:56:48,199

and collaborating with law enforcement. Our parents deserve to know that the situation was handled.

: 1037

00:56:48,199 --> 00:56:54,039

So that was first and foremost and then afterwards we had to explain what we did and what we knew and

: 1038

00:56:54,039 --> 00:56:59,159

thankfully they caught the perpetrator and he wasn't anywhere near any of our schools but in the

: 1039

00:56:59,159 --> 00:57:05,800

moment when you don't know that stuff the crisis is part physical threat because there is a shooter

: 1040

00:57:05,800 --> 00:57:11,000

on the loose and also part psychological threat because people just don't know what to do next

: 1041

00:57:11,000 --> 00:57:16,280

don't know what to happen and it's our job to provide them with information that they can feel

: 1042

00:57:16,280 --> 00:57:24,179

assured and to do it in a way that instills confidence in the folks that have been appointed to

: 1043

00:57:24,179 --> 00:57:30,579

handle those situations. Thank you. I know you had a conversation with our children because

: 1044

00:57:30,579 --> 00:57:36,079

Charlie Kirk they were aware of who he was and how did a conversation go? I don't know I haven't

: 1045

00:57:36,079 --> 00:57:41,829

followed up with them how do you think it went? I remember what I said but did you have any follow-ups

: 1046

00:57:41,829 --> 00:57:51,190

with him? So Gabriel our youngest son informed us of how he felt heard about it and how information

: 1047

00:57:51,190 --> 00:57:58,369

was just moving really quickly like social media then Joseph was I think I shared it with him

: 1048

00:57:58,369 --> 00:58:04,769

because I knew he's been really really interested in politics and the way that you know the US is

: 1049

00:58:04,849 --> 00:58:08,849

running things like that so I told him and I don't think that he connected who it was but then when

: 1050

00:58:08,849 --> 00:58:15,170

his brother informed him he was like oh mom you didn't tell me it was him and that kind of caught me

: 1051

00:58:15,170 --> 00:58:21,489

off guard because his reaction was a bit more like oh I didn't know it was him as in like this is

: 1052

00:58:21,489 --> 00:58:27,010

someone that I actually like and listened to so that was very interesting to me and made me realize

: 1053

00:58:27,010 --> 00:58:33,570

just the impact of who Charlie Kirk was for even that age range yeah which our children are like

: 1054

00:58:34,130 --> 00:58:41,329

14 and 16 and it makes me realize how old we are yeah thinking back on when we met we were

: 1055

00:58:41,329 --> 00:58:47,170

also involved in campus politics you were you were and then you kind of wrote there's a story there's

: 1056

00:58:47,170 --> 00:58:55,090

a story or two there for you but just how removed we are from that you know how excited young people

: 1057

00:58:55,090 --> 00:59:01,570

can get around political issues how motivated they can get to organize and form up on whatever

: 1058

00:59:01,570 --> 00:59:06,769

issue right they can be so passionate and they can develop these connections with people who speak

: 1059

00:59:06,769 --> 00:59:12,769

to them Charlie Kirk I wasn't necessarily a follower but I had to empathize immediately a lot of people

: 1060

00:59:12,769 --> 00:59:19,090

in our community were devastated by that I mean it was like somebody that they admired a lot was

: 1061

00:59:19,170 --> 00:59:26,789

gunned down in public in the middle of the day and I think that sort of trauma spread throughout

: 1062

00:59:26,789 --> 00:59:31,590

our community and we had to be very sensitive to that in our communications and really just

: 1063

00:59:31,590 --> 00:59:37,510

take that out of it I mean we're not taking a side on we're not endorsing anything that any

: 1064

00:59:37,510 --> 00:59:43,030

particular person said our priority was to make sure everybody knew that our students were safe while

: 1065

00:59:43,590 --> 00:59:52,230

recognizing that many in our community were even more impacted because they felt some sort of a

: 1066

00:59:52,230 --> 00:59:58,389

connection to Charlie Kirk so yeah interesting situation whenever something happens with the

: 1067

00:59:58,389 --> 01:00:03,670

tragic that impacts our schools and we have to put out communication for it it's something that we

: 1068

01:00:03,670 --> 01:00:08,789

think deeply about so it could be an act of violence like what happened at Utah Valley University

: 1069

01:00:09,349 --> 01:00:15,829

it could be a suicide students teen suicides are a real thing and we have way too many

: 1070

01:00:15,829 --> 01:00:20,789

of our students who take their own lives and we have to deal with that from a communication

: 1071

01:00:20,789 --> 01:00:29,199

standpoint things of that nature get me to think about our children and when I come home I just

: 1072

01:00:29,199 --> 01:00:36,449

make sure to hug our kids tell them we love them and I think after that day that we had learned that

: 1073

01:00:36,449 --> 01:00:44,000

Charlie Kirk had died I hugged the kids and I remember telling Joseph and Gabriel you don't

: 1074

01:00:44,000 --> 01:00:49,039

have to hate anybody that you disagree with you can let them disagree with you and you can still

: 1075

01:00:49,760 --> 01:00:56,719

be kind to them and love them and just don't let it consume your life and I hope that you've

: 1076

01:00:56,719 --> 01:01:03,320

remembered that thank you thank you for joining me at the Broke was Table if today's conversation

: 1077

01:01:03,320 --> 01:01:11,239

inspired you please subscribe share and leave a review I'm Esther Jackson Stowell until next time

: 1078

01:01:11,800 --> 01:01:15,159

keep brokering faith family and freedom

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