What happens when a soldier comes

home from war and discovers that music

can heal the wounds the doctors missed?

In this episode, I sit down with musician, songwriter, veteran, and outspoken truth-teller Sean Martin. Sean’s journey takes us from the redwood coast of Northern California to the battlefields of Iraq, through the struggles of PTSD, and ultimately into a creative practice rooted in honesty, healing, and a band named the Quarintened.

Along the way, Sean shares how music became more than an art form. Through cognitive behavioral therapy, exposure therapy, and years of songwriting, he discovered that creative practice could become a way of confronting fear, questioning assumptions, and reclaiming agency over his life.

We also explore two of his songs, Skeleton Chair and Unspoken, conversations about war, trauma, truth-telling, James Baldwin, and the responsibilities artists have when they choose to speak about the difficult realities that many people would rather avoid.

You’ll discover:

• How music, cognitive behavioral therapy, and disciplined creative practice helped Sean navigate PTSD and reclaim a sense of agency after war.

• Why confronting “the unspoken”—personally, culturally, and politically—lies at the heart of both healing and artistic practice.

• How art can become a vehicle for critical thinking, helping people examine the invisible forces that shape their beliefs, fears, and relationships.

Notable Mentions

Music & Creative Practice

• The Quarantined (Spotify Artist Page) — Sean Martin’s grunge, punk, and metal project. Through The Quarantined, Martin explores trauma, war, resilience, addiction, politics, and recovery through deeply personal songwriting.
• “Skeleton Chair” — The Quarantined on Spotify — A song inspired by Martin’s experiences in Iraq and the emotional aftermath of combat. During the interview, Martin describes the song as emerging from therapy work focused on a specific combat experience and the psychological realities of war.
• “Unspoken” — The Quarantined on Spotify — A song exploring truth-telling, civic responsibility, and the consequences of silence. The recording incorporates the voice and ideas of James Baldwin and reflects on what happens when difficult truths remain unspoken.
• The Quarantined on Bandcamp — Direct support platform where listeners can purchase music and follow future releases.

Ideas & Practices Discussed

• Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT) — Martin describes CBT as a turning point in understanding the relationship between thoughts, emotions, and physiological responses to trauma.
• Exposure Therapy — A therapeutic approach that helped Martin confront traumatic memories and transform them into creative material.
• Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD) — A central topic throughout the conversation, explored not only as a diagnosis but as a lived experience that shaped Martin’s understanding of fear, identity, and recovery.

People Mentioned

• James Baldwin — Baldwin’s words and ideas provide both inspiration and a direct artistic influence on Martin’s song Unspoken. His reflections on truth, identity, and democracy remain highly relevant today.
• The Baldwin Estate
• Christopher Goldsmith — Mentioned by Martin as an example of veterans doing difficult work confronting extremism and defending democratic values.
• Task Force Butler
• Richard Ojeda — Cited as an example of a veteran leader bringing a direct, no-nonsense approach to public service and democratic engagement.
• Richard Ojeda Official Website

Related Resources

• National Center for PTSD (U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs) — Research, educational materials, and treatment resources related to PTSD and trauma recovery.
• Cognitive Behavioral Therapy Overview (American Psychological Association) — Introduction to CBT and its use in treating trauma and anxiety disorders.
• Musicians Institute — Contemporary music school in Hollywood where Sean Martin studied after leaving military service.
• YUNGBLUD Official Website — Contemporary musician cited by Martin as an artist whose independence, honesty, and willingness to challenge expectations has been inspiring.

Hey, there. So what happens when a soldier comes home from war and discovers that music can heal the wounds that the doctors missed?

From the center for the Study of Art and Community, this is Art is Change, a chronicle of art and social change where activist artists and cultural organizers share the strategies and skills they need to thrive as creative community leaders. My name is Bill Cleveland. Now, in this episode, I sit down with musician, songwriter, veteran, and outspoken truth teller Shawn Martin.

Shawn's journey takes us from the Redwood coast of Northern California to the battlefields of Iraq, through the struggles of ptsd, and ultimately into a creative practice rooted in honesty, healing, and a band named the Quarantined. Along the way, Sean shares how music became more than an art form.

Through cognitive behavioral therapy, exposure therapy, and years of songwriting, he discovered that creative practice could become a way of confronting fear, questioning assumptions, and reclaiming agency over his life.

Through songs like Skeleton Chair and Unspoken, we'll explore Sean's thinking about war, trauma, truth telling, James Baldwin, and the responsibilities artists have when they choose to speak about the difficult realities that many people would rather avoid.

Along the way, we discover how music, cognitive behavioral therapy, and disciplined creative practice helped Shawn navigate PTSD and reclaim a sense of agency after war.

Why confronting the unspoken personally, culturally, and politically lies at the heart of both healing and artistic practice, and how art can become a vehicle for critical thinking, helping people examine the invisible forces that.

Shape their beliefs, fears, and relationships.

Before we start, a quick heads up. Sean and I talk openly about combat trauma, ptsd, and the long journey of recovery after war.

These experiences are central to his story and his music. If these subjects are difficult for you, you may want to listen with a little extra care. Part 1, 300 missions Sean Martin, welcome to the show.

Let's begin by letting folks know where.

You're hailing from right now.

Yeah, I'm just a little bit north of Nashville. I'm about an hour north over in Kentucky. I'm surrounded by the Amish and farmland. It's nice out here.

Okay, well, that's a good place to make music, right? Yeah. One of the questions I ask, folks is not what you do, okay.

Not what your title is, not how you announce yourself, but what is your work in the world?

That's a good question. I would say to use art to foster critical thinking, and with that comes a responsibility to be honest and authentic.

I started this from the idea that I wouldn't hold back on the things that society didn't deem as proper conversation. And back in this day, this was religion and politics. You Know, if you're an artist, just don't talk about religion and politics.

Just don't do it because everybody's going to get offended and no one's going to listen to you and no, it's just going to be horrible. Well, I said that. Yeah, I'm. These are the things that are the most important and have the largest effects on our lives.

So why the hell should we not talk about them? It's only better for the people who control you using them if we don't talk about it.

Same way at a workplace, if you don't talk about how much you make comparatively, you're never going to know who's getting screwed.

Right, exactly.

So. So I bring that kind of mentality to the social and cultural aspect.

Using art to say, hey guys, maybe we owe each other a little bit more than what we've been giving.

Right.

The truth that, that we are all similar is ubiquitous.

But if we don't start recognizing and talking openly about the things that we believe and why we believe them and be willing to abandon them when there is no evidence to support them, we don't have a community.

So artistically speaking, it's talking about the difficult aspects of the human experience, trying to create the environment in which people can question their reality, their experience, the invisible forces that move them.

So you didn't wake up as a.

Four year old with this mission in mind. You've had a long journey that has led you not only to the impulse you just described, but also to the art making.

And I know it's a long story and I know it's complicated, but if you could just share some of that to provide context, it would be great.

Sure. So I grew up in Fort Bragg, California. It's a small town on the coast of California. No, no. Good. Look at the coast and the redwoods.

I started singing when I was four. I started playing guitar when I was 12.

I recorded some songs before I went into the military, but I ultimately joined the military just after my 18th birthday and I joined in the airborne infantry and the into a program called the 18X program, which was the fast track into Special Forces.

So the option for me to go into Special Forces was there, but I decided after airborne school to go deploy to Iraq and then after that I would go to the Special Forces training to become a Green Beret.

After all of the that I saw in my deployment into Iraq, it made, it made the decision very obvious to not go into Special Forces because I didn't trust anybody who I was working with. They Tried to kill me multiple times. The best friends that I had died, and the ones who didn't die decided to. To choose apathy instead of empathy.

And so the decision to leave the military was given to me on a relative silver platter after doing about over 300 missions outside of the wire, after being in multiple kinetic operations.

Sean, sorry to interrupt, but could you.

Define kinetic mission for those who may not know what that is?

Sure. That's missions where we're specifically going out to kill people.

So whenever you hear someone say, oh, we're just doing kinetic missions, don't act like that's nothing, all right? Because that's. That's a big deal. So. So a. So after all of that, I was diagnosed with PTSD while I was in country.

At that time, PTSD was not something that the military understood. It wasn't something the VA understood. Most of the people who I talked to, and we're just like, oh, well, you're just going to be scared for a while.

You'll just have some nightmares, and then after a while, it'll go away. They didn't tell me that the nightmares are just a symptom. That's not the disorder.

Right.

The disorder is your nervous system going out of whack all the time with zero stimuli response. That's the problem.

Yeah.

In Los Angeles and in Las Vegas, and things were going relatively well for a new band, but I. I just couldn't handle reality anymore.

There was a long process of learning about the disability and how to mitigate the negative repercussions of it so that I wasn't always subject to whatever my nervous system would decide. This is what you're gonna think and feel and emote.

Now, I had to learn the difference between feelings and emotions, because to me, the feelings were the results of the nervous system. The emotions are how you feel about it.

So, see a snake, the nervous system reacts, the lizard brain takes over, and flight, fight, paralysis just ensues.

Right?

Yeah. So, for example, to me, the feelings in a panic attack are disassociation, fear. They are nervousness, anxiety.

The emotions are sad, anger, happiness, confusion. So when you separate them out.

In those ways, you can start to see which ones are driven by your nervous system that don't have any actual evidence to support them, and which ones are emotions that you can deal with in a different way. And once you separate those cbt, cognitive behavioral therapy becomes the one modality that is the truth line through all of it.

So once CBT was taught to me, that's when I started to get a sense of, oh, shit, I actually have some control over this, to recognize when my nervous system is going out of whack and I can give myself enough space so that I can deal with it instead of just thinking, it's all normal. This is how I feel all the time, and if I feel it, it must be right.

Part two, Deep Breathing.

So obviously, your love of music, your relationship to music started long before any of this occurred. But you have. In addition to the cognitive behavior therapy, music has become a critical resource for you. So how did that get integrated?

How did music become your friend? Yes.

So it came about while I was going to music school, still had some classes to finish after I had my temporary psychotic breakdown. So I'm in the inpatient clinic on Sunset Boulevard in Los Angeles, going to Hollywood for school.

And while I was going there, I was seeing a vocal teacher, and a vocal teacher was teaching me about the breathing exercises to build up your diaphragm and your upper respiratory and also being able to push it out through the resonances in your head.

And I started to realize that the same breathing exercises that the vocal teacher was teaching me was the exact same vocal breathing exercises that my therapy was teaching me and telling me how to get through panic attacks and PTSD attacks.

Yeah.

So once I realized they're exactly the same, what else is exactly the same? Therapy, and especially exposure therapy, is about authentically showing up.

You have to be honest with yourself, and you have to be honest with your memories and ideas and what you perceive.

Then getting through the therapy, you're able to then come to a sense of acceptance, of gratitude, to be able to appreciate, even the struggle to be able to appreciate. At least I made it through that. Or, hey, things may be bad right now, but at least I'm not being shot at while I'm doing them.

Because that was the previous way.

Yes.

And. And at least is better than that.

Right.

So I could have some kind of guardrail against the mentalities becoming too much and forcing you down.

Because that was the most common thing, is that the rest of your life brings you back down into that constant stress, because people With PTSD may not realize that the relationships that they've fostered contribute to their stress.

Yeah. So PTSD can create isolation, but it can also create very toxic relationships.

Right.

That. That spin you.

They may not realize that their codependency and they're creating a relationship of codependency with a narcissist doesn't facilitate them growing as a human.

And then when that narcissist is the most important person in your entire life, well, then you've got a whole other problem to deal with instead of just ptsd, because you're not reacting normally to the emotional stimuli that's going on anyway. And so when the narcissist then fucks with your emotions and tricks you, then it's even worse.

Yeah. So you're stateside, but you're in another semi war zone. And so music is more than a therapy. I know for you because I'm.

I. I've been spending time with it.

You have shared a lot in your music, and my guess is you have a lot of people who have a relationship with you through your music because you're. You're opening the door, you're pulling back the curtain, and you're also making good music, which actually is really helpful, I think, and all that.

Thank you. It's good to make it good. Yeah. Yes, it is. Yeah.

So can you talk about the relationship between your learning about being a revived human in the world and the way in which music has fed that?

Well, let's start at the techniques for music. Just the discipline that it takes to learn a technique in music is very similar to the kind of mental space you need to be in for good meditation.

You're focusing not on a lot of the details, but on the results. Because to learn anything with music, you have to start stupidly slow. The. The best way to learn anything is to start ridiculously slow.

It doesn't matter if you're learning how to go, da, da, da, da. You start with duh, duh, duh, duh. It's. You go that slow all the time.

Right.

So that. Take patience with yourself. Because the first thing that people do when they pick up a guitar is they go, I can't do this. I tried and I can't do it.

Yeah, right.

It's because they never got to the point to where their internal mind said, if you continue to do this over and over again, you will get better at it. You will. They don't believe that they will get better at it. So that belief has to push you forward.

And so I've always said that a belief in yourself, the investment in yourself, is the one that will pay the most dividends. So when you're learning music, it's important to remember, at least for me, that the practice leads you to the next place where you want to be.

But the feeling that you get from. From the sound moving through you is something to be able to appreciate wherever you go. Like, let me try to put it into a little bit story.

So in the movie Jet Li's Fearless, that's a movie about Ho Wan Gia, and he's a martial arts expert, and he is always searching out to fight the best. He just wants to be the best. And one day, he loses horribly. He loses everything.

And he ends up out in the middle of the Northern Chinese wilderness and is picked up by a blind girl. And she takes him back to her village, and they teach him how to plant rice.

And one of the things that the people do when they're planting rice is whenever they feel a strong breeze coming through, they all stand up and they feel the breeze freeze.

And they take a moment to be appreciative and grateful of everything that is around you, all the nature, all of the things to be able to feel, and then go back to work. So.

So there to me, that stuck with me, because learning music requires you at some point to take a step back and be like, let's try to see it from the bigger picture. It's very important to have the perspective to where you can see music's effect on you.

And what I found is that music gives me a sense of accomplishment because of the relationship in music that other people can have with it, because it's about them hearing the music without me, without having any idea about who I am and still being able to feel it. Yeah, that's the true beauty in it.

Part three songs.

So two songs. The first one is Skeleton Chair, and there's a line. Solder my bones to this chair, my friend. And it.

I mean, I don't know if this is true, but it feels like the story you told about your relationship as a warrior and your journey back is pretty connected to at least one aspect of this song. Am I right? And if so, talk about it or not, because it. It's a pretty intense song.

Do it again. Do it again. Do it again. Out of my bones.

Yeah, yeah. No, you're right on. There's a lot of connections to the experiences in war.

In fact, that song was created after I had done a whole bunch of exposure therapy to a very particular incident. That happened in Iraq. That involved lots of kinetic operations.

And the results of that and dealing with the highest of highs of getting really excited that I was able to do my job, the thing that I had trained to do, and I was able to do it like legitimately. And then the alternate side of the horrible results of kinetic operations going too far and that, and then it's out of your control.

So skeleton chair is really someone showing up to something and being like, this is going to be great, and then realizing, wait, we're soldering bones to chairs. That's what, that's what we're doing here. That's the re. That's what war really feels like.

You're showing up thinking that it's going to be, oh, this is going to be great, man. We're going to like, we're going to go out and kick some ass, we're going to ride some eagles and blah, blah. It's going to be freedom to the max.

No, that's not how the shit goes. That's not how reality operates.

And the fact that you think that's what's going to happen when you pull a trigger is that it's going to be star spangled awesome. Shows how delusional you truly are instead of how prepared you really are.

Because maybe you do have all of the preparations, maybe you do have all the ammo and all the food and all your sleeping bags and everything in the E tool and everything you need to go out and do a soldier's job. That doesn't mean you're mentally prepared. That doesn't mean you're ready for what's actually going to come at you.

In a environment where people are actively shooting back at you.

Is there an addiction in there?

Yes. And that is the key part of it, that's what keeps them coming back, is the fact that, that this hour of war is addictive.

Yeah.

If you watch UFC after the fight and the dude who won, watch him if he's calm all the time, that's the weirdest, the craziest person you've ever seen. But the dude usually is full of adrenaline. Everything is, is pumping. He's on the top of the world.

That's only a modicum of the power that you feel when you go and do kinetic operations. It's addicting.

So on the other side of the equation, or the coin or whatever you want to call it, is this song unspoken, which feels, at least to me, there's a number of songs that feels like you have mapped out parts of your journey and Unspoken is both about you, but also about others in the same shoes. And am I right? But it starts. Does it start out with James Baldwin? Actually, at the beginning there.

It does. Yes, it does.

Knocked me out. Knocked me out. It's like, I know that guy.

Yeah, Right on.

What is relevant about this is that whereas 40 years ago, when I was born, the question of having to deal with what is unspoken by the subject, what is never said to the man, having to deal with this reality with very possibility. It was no one's mind. When I was growing up, I was taught in American history books, but Africa had no history and neither did I. But I was a savage.

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. As a philosopher during the civil rights time, like, man, he was the guy who I agreed with the most.

It wasn't Martin Luther King or Malcolm X, it was James Baldwin. And when I heard his. The pin drop speech and I heard the cadence that he spoke with, I was really envious because I'm like, that's a smart cadence.

Like, the way that he talks is authoritative and creative at the same time. It's unbelievable because nobody talks like that. Nobody talks like that.

And it really goes into more the feeling that you were talking about of this is me, but this is also us.

Yeah.

There's a talk of what do we do when the systems break down? What do we do? What are the responsibilities to each other? What should we look for when people lie to us through. Through legislation?

What does it look like when your life gets legislated away? And now we're seeing that happen in real time. But it's a process. It's not new.

No, Mr. Baldwin knows this experience not as some sort of philosophy. He knows it as lived experience. Yeah, he lived experience.

And I mean, here in the military, there's times when they said, no, you do not say that, and you do not even think that. Right.

I spent 12 years working in the.

California Department of Corrections as an artist. That's another place where there are things you say and things you do not say.

And in every circumstance, both personally and institutionally, the unspoken is the devil. You looking for danger? The unspoken is the devil, and it will get you every time. And so I'm that song.

All your songs are basically, as you said at the top. Your impulse is to say what you feel is righteous or the truth, what you're thinking.

And cognitive behavior therapy demands a connection between what you're feeling, what you're thinking, and what you're saying. And it just seems to me, encountering your music, that your music Just became another tool for you in that journey. Am I right about that?

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, something that I found was that anxiety doesn't just come from nowhere. There's a reason why you feel worried.

And cognitive behavioral therapy, we qualify those as the hot thoughts, the thoughts that are the most aggressive and cause you the most distress. So then you try to find the evidence for or against it, and you get real honest with yourself about what's real and what's not.

And I found that process helped me to write songs, because the hot thoughts are also usually the best lines. If you can get creative with the thing that makes you the most worried. Well, that's exactly what Batman does.

That's why he chose the bat, because it makes me afraid. Right. So at some point, if me, the artist, confronts my fears and puts it.

On paper, it's a do it yourself safety valve. I mean, obviously, it's useful to go to the va. It's useful to sit with a therapist, and some people think it's useful to take a lot of drugs.

But being able to write and sing a song that can actually change your mind in the moment of the singing is pretty powerful.

Yeah. Thank you. A lot of times, that's what I try to go after.

And, you know, the other thing is I have to also adjust my expectations because not every song that I'm gonna do needs to have that approach. Right. You know, in learning to wear all of the different hats that it requires to make a song.

The artist hat, the engineer hat, the producer hat, the marketing hat, you have to take on all these things independently. And that was also very helpful in helping me accept different perspectives.

Because the one thing with PTSD is that it's very easy to become controlled by your own expectations. I expect this is all going to go to. So it's always going to go to. Doesn't matter if I started or not. It's gonna be.

Well, that's going to stop you from accomplishing anything. Anything.

It certainly is. Absolutely.

And I. I still have friends who are like that. And look, I don't blame them in the slightest. I don't blame them in the slightest. But it is a mentality. It is a mentality to.

To set yourself up for success and also to set yourself up for failure. It is another thing. And the legitimate fear that they have is that they are wasting their time, that the thing that they are going after isn't legit.

And that's a very real fear. There is so much con going around in the United States, especially in the Music industry that it's ridiculous.

It's so easy to get lost, discouraged, easy to give up. But for me, it's a modality of my expression. Doesn't matter what happens to me. I'm gonna be able to do something about it in music.

Yeah.

And I mean, the thing is that. That my students in the joint taught me. I mean, that was my university.

And most of them had a story that often ended up saying, well, at a certain point, I was convinced that I had absolutely no agency in the world and that everything that happened to me was basically the world against me. And I just shut down. Right.

And so we're sitting there in a beginning guitar class or a beginning painting class, and they're freaked out because they have taken a gigantic risk to be bad. And they know it. Like you say, slow. Not just slow, but bad.

Yeah.

With the real understanding that they have to keep coming back and keep coming back and keep coming back and learn how to fail. I think when we started, we would say the feeling of failure can turn into something glorious because you realize it's on the way. You're on the way.

Yeah.

You're still doing it, man. You're still doing it. Part 4 Sparks, you mentioned that you have a new version of Unspoken coming out. And what I wanted to ask you is what do you.

What's sparking you? What's really jazzing you right now about what you're up to, and not only your own work, but other things in the creative world that.

That are really inspiring you?

What something that's. That's really been inspiring me is the setup. Honestly, I've. So I've got this dual Apollo unit that has a digital console.

So, like, for right now, I'm not just talking into this mic. This mic goes to four different input compressors and EQs, and they're all API Fairchild, the top of the line UAD plugins.

And so now I can have complete control over not only my live sound and have it be consistent all the time and have it all be connected and do it from right here. And that means I can make music autonomously all the time, whenever I want, at a high quality.

That is something that I was looking forward to having sometime in my life as a musician, but I never knew that I would actually be able to do it, let alone understand it, and then even after that, use it effectively.

Yeah.

And the fact that I've gotten to that point still makes me, like, take a step back and be like, I really actually did that. Like, that I've got this, like, I need to use it more. I still feel guilty if I'm not using it 247 because. So there's a.

The fact that there's open ended production and I can make it sound as good and authentic to me as I can and I have control over it. Man, that's fucking dope.

It is. And it's. I mean, it's the first time in human history. Obviously anybody sitting around a fire can make a song.

Right.

And that's where most of human music came from. But once we got into this reproduction thing, right, it was always somebody else that you had to depend on.

And now you're sitting in the driver's seat. I think the most exciting thing about creating, making is blowing your own mind with things that you never imagined could come out of you.

And at least in my experience, I'm pretty convinced that it's not just me. There are other forces around me that are definitely channeling.

And to actually be in a situation where you can be spontaneous and also creative and disciplined and craft something you're proud of, that's fantastic. That's really great. Congratulations for getting there.

Thank you. Thank you.

Yeah.

So who are the musicians that are inspiring you, that you learn from someone.

Who keeps coming across my feet. Youngblood. Do you know Youngblood? Yeah.

Idol.

Yeah. He's. I feel like there's a lot of things that me and him have in common. I feel like he's like a British compatriot in that way because his music is.

He's going after a lot of the kinds of things that I'm going after what he's doing in the way. In the waves that he's making in the industry, still retaining a lot of independence.

But it seems like they told him what he was supposed to do and he said, I'm gonna do this, I'm gonna do that, I'm not gonna do that. And that worked. So that's something else.

Final question before we wrap up. I'm just wondering if you're at all involved with other vets in either the healing side or the political side right now.

I'm not as involved as I would like to be, honestly. I've been so focused on trying to foster and facilitate the release of everything and trying to establish my own online presence. But I need to.

There's been quite a few advancements, especially people I'm seeing who are doing the really hard and difficult work to fight against fascism. Christopher Goldsmith is one of them who, like, I see his stuff all the time. Richard Ojeda. He's running for Congress again.

Former 82nd Airborne, former major in the infantry, I believe. I mean, I really support him.

And it seems like that kind of energy that he's bringing of no nonsense bullshit and a veteran sort of energy of we're going to get this done and we're going to do it together, is exactly what this country needs.

Yep. I agree. You may not be a part of any particular movement, but your music speaks to people, particularly people who've had similar experiences as you.

Wouldn't you agree?

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I mean, I'm really only seeing the beginning of it right now, really.

It truly has yet to really sink into me just how deep the relationship that people have with the music and what they think about it. Even though I know that it's gone to every country in the world already, I know that it's gotten well over a million streams on Spotify. I.

So I'm super excited and happy that it's reaching people in that way. But I gotta keep going. I gotta keep pushing it,.

You know?

Sean, I do not doubt that you will always be pushing that big old musical boulder on up that hill.

So when's the newest recording gonna come out?

Ah, well, I'm hoping this summer. Well, I'll say I'm hoping this summer.

Well, that'd be nice.

That's good. Yeah, that's good.

All right, Sean, fantastic. Thank you so much.

This has been really great.

Yeah, absolutely.

And adios to you folks who have been listening in. And if you're of a mind, please share Art is Change with your colleagues and friends. Art is Change is a production of.

The center for the Study of Art and Community.

Our theme and soundscape spring forth from the head, heart and hand of the maestro, Judy Munson.

Our text editing is by Andre Nebe.

Our effects come from freesound.org and our inspiration comes from the ever present spirit of ook235.

So until next time, stay well, do.

Good, and spread the good word. Take us out, Sean.

It doesn't comfort me to say that.

All the world has lost its head I never need in my dream from anyone But I'm trying to see your.

Place I don't need no religion to see the pain across your face. So can we live to tell? Can we live to tell of our one last chance?

Chance.

Of a chance. Cause I can't say what a day is we're dying.