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₿HS006: Meredith and Shane Hazel “Trust yourself – You Are Made to Do This”
Episode 6 • 26th October 2023 • Bitcoin Homeschoolers • Scott and Tali Lindberg
00:00:00 01:07:45

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SHOW TOPIC:

Bitcoiners Meredith and Shane are over a decade into their homeschooling journey.  In this conversation they share overing fears, embracing challenges, asking kids to teach others, homesteading, and many personal lessons.

IN THIS EPISODE, YOU'LL LEARN:

  • Homeschooling is a calling
  • Meredith’s background as a schoolteacher
  • Cost of childcare alone is ridiculous
  • Preparing for a lifestyle of a single income without fear
  • Men can only do such much, kids really need a mom
  • Originally decided to take it year by year
  • Now they’re homeschooling until the work is done
  • Embracing challenges … Make adjustments as you go
  • Hardest part starting out was researching how legally to do this
  • Struggle and growth from over-planner to value-based teacher
  • Combining homeschooling and homesteading
  • Teaching more than traditional subjects, teaching life skills
  • Have kids teach you!  Using Discord, baking bread, anything
  • Kids learning to monetize 
  • Chores and responsibilities, e.g., attending to chickens
  • Learning (teaching) how to make money work instead of working for money
  • Kids can learn things are earlier ages than you expect
  • Genius is actually an extraordinarily common thing
  • Contribution to society through our kids
  • You do NOT need a schoolteacher background to homeschool
  • The art and science of leveraging nap schedules
  • Fail fast.  Learn from your mistakes.  You’re going to be alright.
  • Kids have to have skin in the game
  • How to answer kids ask “Do we have to go to college?”
  • Check out dual enrollment opportunities
  • Balancing free time and self-discipline
  • Self-discipline over curriculum
  • Value of letting kids teaching others what they know
  • Don’t be afraid to follow your own path
  • Read to kids every day
  • Have fun with your kids and learn patience as fast as you can

RESOURCES MENTIONED IN THE SHOW:

  • Meredith’s blog “Wait ‘Til Your Father Gets Home” http://www.waittilyourfathergetshome.com
  • Shane’s email shane.hazel@swanbitcoin.com
  • Books:
  • “The Underground History of American Education” by John Taylor Gato
  • “Dumbing Us Down” by John Taylor Gato
  • “Weapons of Mass Instruction” by John Taylor Gato

HAPPY TO HELP:

  • Tali's Twitter @OrangeHatterPod
  • Scott's Twitter @ScottLindberg93
  • Scott's nostr npub19jkuyl0wgrj8kccqzh2vnseeql9v98ptrx407ca9qjsrr4x5j9tsnxx0q6
  • Free Market Kids' Twitter @FreeMarketKids
  • Orange Pill App @FreeMarketKids
  • Free Market Kids' games including HODL UP https://www.freemarketkids.com/collections/games

WAYS TO SUPPORT:

We are essentially our own sponsors and are so grateful for all of you who support this show.  Thank you!

STANDING RESOURCE RECOMMENDATIONS:

Mentioned in this episode:

Aleia Free Market Kids Full

Transcripts

Meredith:

Kids can learn something that you don't even realize

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is possible at a specific age

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.

They hit that milestone way before it's expected.

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Scott: Welcome folks.

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This is Bitcoin Homeschoolers, and this

is something that we feel is bigger

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than something bigger than ourselves.

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It's going to really impact

the future generations.

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Bitcoin is self custody for

money, Noster is self custody

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for speech, and homeschooling is

self custody for, for education.

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I really do believe that, and

we are just honored to have

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this awesome couple here today.

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That we're gonna spend some time

and get another point of view.

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They're both Bitcoiners and homeschoolers.

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So Shane and Meredith, Welcome.

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, this is awesome.

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We're really excited to spend, uh,

spend some time with you guys tonight.

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Shane: I'm humbled to

be here, Scott and Tali.

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Thank you guys for having us.

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I mean, being some of your first guests

even, I mean, what a, what a privilege.

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, Thank you guys.

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And, uh, to have Meredith on

and we don't, we don't get to

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do shows very often together.

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So, you know, this is, this

is kind of a nice mix to have.

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And, um, I think, , the fact that you

guys are starting Bitcoin homeschoolers.

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If anybody's listening and you're into

Bitcoin or homeschool or any of this kind

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of stuff, it's a, it's a great market

right now to maybe put something out

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there and attract, uh, this organization.

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Scott: Yeah.

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So let me, let me just say for folks, we,

so Shane and I have just started to get to

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know each other with a couple of podcasts

related to Bitcoin and, and veterans.

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This is the first time though, that

we have both of our respective spouses

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together, and we're all able to, to

go deep on the homeschooling side.

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Of that.

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And let me just say up front, God

bless you guys for doing that.

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I think anybody who takes this on, this

is a, this is a, this is a passion.

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This is a mission and

it's not always easy.

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But it's worth it.

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And we're grateful for people

like you to, to, uh, to do that.

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If you guys could do a quick introduction

Pretend that no one knows who shane

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is for example, and then tell us

like what got you into homeschooling

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kind of lead into the that subject.

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Meredith: Okay.

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Um, i'm meredith hazel married to

shane , I was a public school teacher

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or I want to say it was six years total

um, then we had a baby and we decided

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that we wanted to have me stay home.

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So until he was old enough to need to

start doing school, um, you know, I

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was home with him and then it was time

for him to start going to school and we

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decided that we were going to home school.

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Um, I'm sorry, I'm like out of

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Shane: breath right now.

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And for anybody who's listening,

like, it wasn't just that we

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were like, oh, let's homeschool.

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Economically, as a school teacher,

it really didn't make sense.

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No.

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Meredith: Childcare alone was ridiculous.

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To even consider me going back to

work before the kids were old enough

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to be going to school with me.

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Because in my mind, as a

teacher, I was going to.

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Go to school, take my kids with me,

come home at the end of the day, and we

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would just be together because that's

what I saw so many teachers growing up

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in education doing like they just always

had their kids with them at school.

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, so once we started homeschooling, it just.

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We used to say we were taking

it year by year, at least I

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did, I know maybe you weren't.

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Shane: I was in, full in, I was just

like, this is, this is, this is happening

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and really it was, , one of those things

where it, I think, I think you have to

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back up a little bit because we had made

some decisions, like we had downsized.

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, our home, we had gotten, , our, our

affairs and, , in terms of debt and all

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that kind of stuff, like we've gotten

all the financial stuff kind of in order.

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Um, so that, , we could make the

adjustment to a single family income.

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And, that, I think that's probably

one of the biggest things that a lot

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of people, , really fear is like, Oh,

we're going to a single family income.

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And we kind of just looked at each

other and was like, no, we can do this.

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And actually it might,

Allow me to do more at work.

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Mm-Hmm.

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. Um, and I think, , as, as males,

a lot of times we're not, we're

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not, so, I don't know, in, in so

useful, uh, I don't know if that's

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the word with, with infants, right.

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It's like with, with infants, like they,

there's only so much you could, yeah.

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They, you really need a mom and.

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You know, the, the dad is like that guy

that should probably be out, , and I'm

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not, we're fairly traditional obviously,

but , it's like you should be able to

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go out and work extra hard now if she's

covering the house and, , that's no

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small feat, right, but now that it's

in good hands, it's like, all right,

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dude, you got to, you got to perform

more, you got to perform better.

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And then, , it puts a

good type of pressure on.

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And I think that's kind of

how we were, we started.

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Yeah.

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And golly happens fast after that.

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I mean, I mean, we're, we're

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Meredith: about 10 years in now.

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When, when you think about it.

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Yeah.

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So, um, well, Todd, you

want, sorry, go ahead.

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Think about halfway through.

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I used to, oh, did the

audio go out or something?

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No, that was me about halfway through.

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I, that's when I started, like

if people were asking like,

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how long are you homeschooling?

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And be like, uh, till they're

done, , like, I'm not, it's, it's

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no longer, I no longer say, we'll,

we'll see how each year goes.

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It's if something is not working with

homeschooling, I've, I've just learned

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I need to change how I'm doing it.

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And if it's with one kid in particular,

or all three of them, usually it's

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just an individual thing that happens,

but, um, I just make adjustments.

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And if I don't know about you, something

like math is, uh, taxing for a child of

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mine in particular, I've probably been

through four or five different curriculums

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with him just because I need to change

it up for him every once in a while.

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Scott: Yeah, so Tali, I know you wanted

to ask about their initial challenges,

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so I'm kind of stealing her question.

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When you guys made that decision and you

were, you just started, you just started,

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what was the hardest part about kind of

figuring out that next step and, and how

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you were going to actually do this thing?

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Shane: I think you were, uh,

I think the admin side, I

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remember you kind of struggling.

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Well, the admin side, like, all

right, how do we legally do this?

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, in the state, how do we find out

everything that we need to find out?

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Because at the end of the

day, you don't want...

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Everything that you do for your

child to come back and haunt

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you or, , for the state to have

to get involved at any point.

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Um, , the last thing anybody wants

is, some sort of truancy law being

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violated and a knock at their door from

either child services or the sheriff.

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And then on the other side of that,

it was kind of, , trying to figure

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out and find different groups

for ideas on curriculum and...

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, the divorcing, the mentality of

divorcing I think was probably maybe

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the biggest hurdle she had because,

you know, she's, she's a planner

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by nature and she's really good.

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I mean, like very good at planning

and I hate that kind of stuff.

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So I appreciate the people

that do it and do it well.

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Um, so to see her kind of go through

that evolution, I definitely would

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say, there was probably a good

struggle there for you just watching.

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Meredith: Yeah.

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Um.

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I think I used to over plan a lot,

too, like it wasn't necessary.

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I learned again after a few years that

it's just kind of easier to honestly

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do what you can get accomplished in a

day and then just kind of make note of

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it like reverse planning, almost where

you just kind of record what you did a

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couple things down here and there and.

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It gets too technical and

too busy if you try to plan

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Shane: it out.

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Yeah, I think maybe on my side, one

of the biggest hurdles I found was,

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I was working in corporate America.

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I was traveling a lot and I was doing

program management and international

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business development at the time.

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And it required a lot of travel, and

it required me, , to really perform

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and be away and, , long hours, I

mean, a lot of times, especially.

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And I'm kind of that guy that will

go in at like 6 o'clock in the

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morning to an office and work till

6 o'clock at night in an office.

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Well, when

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Meredith: you were doing that though,

you would come home sometimes like 3.

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Like if you went super early.

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Yeah.

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Three

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Shane: or four or something that,

that might've been before kids though.

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Yeah.

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But yeah, once it started

happening, I think the hardest

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part for me was still living in

that corporate type of lifestyle.

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Um, yeah.

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Because we're, , the, the plan was to

remove ourselves, , the way we have now

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into more of a homeschooling homestead.

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Uh, , living kind of more of a, an

imbalanced type of, uh, , nature and I was

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discovering passions at that point that

in politics and then, , Bitcoin later.

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And so to kind of be all over the map

and still doing this side of it and

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making sure that, , the wheels on the

bus stayed on the bus at home, right?

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It's like that.

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I think that was probably the hardest

part for me, but I think that's.

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Any young man that has a family out

there, I think that's what you're going

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to find is you're going to start to

sacrifice what you can sacrifice so that

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your kids can have a better life and

your, your family can have a better life.

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And it just, it makes sense, right?

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If that's what

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Scott: you value, then you put that ahead

of that extra vacation or the nicer.

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Whatever, car, whatever it is.

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So, actually, so Shane, on that, I

mean, maybe you can comment on this.

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Are we, a lot of people will ask

initially, like, what kind of

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curriculum, and it gets into the,

the traditional school type of ideas

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of what you're supposed to teach.

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I personally, I really I am

excited by what homeschooling

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parents do that is not traditional.

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I mean, you, I mean, it could be anything

from business to ethics to, um, fitness.

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I mean, there's, there's

so many more life skills.

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If the kids are with you when you're

figuring out what you're going to cook

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for dinner and go in the grocery store

and like, it's just, it's just different.

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So I'd love to hear from you

guys what, what kind of things

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outside the normal traditional.

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Curriculum that you would

get in a public school.

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What are some of the

things that you guys have?

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That you may be one or two that

you feel really strong about that.

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You're glad that you've brought

into the homeschooling realm

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Meredith: Do you want to tell

them what you just thought about

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having the kids do with you each?

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I think you said each

week you're gonna ask them

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Shane: to oh, yeah I mean, this is

just an idea off the top of my head.

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I was like, , we were you know We kind

of brainstorm stuff at night and we'll

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have conversations not fun stuff and I

was like I really think it may be time

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for the kids to teach me something once

a week and That's, , it obviously, , I

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come from a background where Um, it was

learn one, do one, show one, which means

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you learn one, you learn something, then

you do the practical application side

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of it so that you kind of understand the

functionality of it and you learn it to

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the point where now you can teach it.

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So that's that idea that, , can push

somebody to, , a certain level of stress.

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You know, you don't want to overload

your kids every week with something

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crazy, but you know, um, for example,

like, uh, Back in the day when we were

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growing up, my mom and dad were always

like, you better find something else to

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do besides play this stupid video games

because you'll never make a living in that

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figure, , 20, 30, 40 years later now, I

don't know how, but, um, now there's a

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trillion dollar industry in video games.

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And had I stuck with.

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That billionaires.

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Yeah, I would have.

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I would have known better.

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So obviously I have, , children that

are interested in all the same stuff I

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was at the time, but I also understand

that, hey, there is a market for this

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and there is something to be understood.

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So as soon as I started telling my oldest,

like, well, if you, if you're going to

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spend this kind of time on this, you

need to figure out how to monetize it.

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You need to figure out how

to make a business out of it.

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And the next thing I know,

he has set up some servers.

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He's got some bots that are

operating in the background.

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And I'm not a technical guy like that.

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Like, I don't know any

of that kind of stuff.

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So as he comes along and starts

to like showing me, Hey, dad,

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you want to talk about discord?

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And I'm like, no, man, like I, but

I should, I should sit there and I

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should have those conversations, right?

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And I should be like, yeah, you know what?

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Once a week, teach me

something that you're doing.

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Teach me something that

you're thinking about.

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Teach me something that you've learned.

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That you may not think I know and I

think that's going to be one of the best

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things about it is kind of the challenge.

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And so that's, that's a little, you

know, a little, uh, outside of, I

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think the normal world where I don't

think parents want to be taught

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by their kids, um, , for anything.

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But I think it actually

stimulates their, their growth.

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And if you want to take the next

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Meredith: one.

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Um, I was just going to say, you

know, something as simple as like,

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I think it was mostly last year

when I really got into making bread.

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Like our daughter can, she, she was

eight at the time and she can, she might

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need a refresher now, but at that point

she had done it with me so much that

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she could literally make the sandwich

bread for the week because I was trying

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not to buy it from the grocery store.

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So, um, if I had to run out and, you know,

go run an errand and the bread was rising

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or on its first rise, I could call her

or text her and be like, Hey, will you.

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Take care of doing the next rise

for the bread and like divide it

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into the pans and she knew how

to do it and she could handle it.

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Um, another thing I just all three in

general, we have chickens and they all

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do different things for them and with

them so that it's not all falling on us.

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Yeah, there's

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Shane: 38 of them.

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So it's not like a small

number of chickens.

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Our oldest

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Meredith: is capable, pretty capable of

taking care of cleaning the whole coop

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out and refreshing the bedding and he's

strong enough now that he can fill the

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feeder with a 40, 30 pound bag of feed.

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Um, and then usually the other

two kind of help with putting away

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the chickens at night or gathering

the eggs and, and all that.

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I mean, that is nothing.

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That would have happened a few years

ago because we one didn't live in an

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area that we could even have chickens or

consider having chickens and I don't know.

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I mean, I'm sure there are kids in

public school that their families

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own chickens, but it it just made it.

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It's like a nice thing that they have

learned how to do and can do in the future

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if they so choose to raise chickens.

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Scott: Yeah, you hit there's so

many things going through my head.

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I mean, you're teaching a responsibility.

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They are a contributing

member of the, of the family.

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They, if they don't do

something, there's consequences.

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If they keep the door

open at night and the...

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Raccoons get in or something like,

well, you know, there's some,

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there's some real consequences.

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We, we had chickens.

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So, uh, we, we had problems

with dogs and chickens too.

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Um, but I think, I think teaching

responsibility, having a little bit

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of stress, not enough to the, they

need to fail a little bit to learn.

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And there's a lot of things in there.

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So who, who teaches about money?

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Cause I'm sure as Bitcoiners.

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That's that's that

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Shane: James.

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Yeah, but I would say you know money

is is somewhere the fiat end of it

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Well, it's so the thing is is it's so

nuanced and it touches everything and so

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there's there's a there's a really cool

compliment here yeah, I'm kind of the

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the economics and the money guy obviously

and Um, what's funny is, , this kind

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of started, when I was thinking, Hey,

listen, , as we're being better, becoming

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better versions of ourself to support

a family, um, one of the things that

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crossed my mind was like, well, I need

to, I need to learn how to make money.

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make money.

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I need to learn how to make

money work instead of I,

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instead of working for money.

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And when that thought crossed

my mind, I started going down

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the Austrian rabbit hole.

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Uh, this was probably, I don't

know,:

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Uh, it was, you know, somewhere

around the Ron Paul revolution.

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And as I began to learn more and

more and more, I kind of just got

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to the point where I understood

that the people who knew money.

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, those guys were never really broke.

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Well, there were some guys, , obviously

took some bad risk and made some

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bad decisions, but those guys,

you know, kind of got washed out.

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And so to, to have that.

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And then to have children that were

actually interested in this whole

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process because of what I was doing

politically at the time and, and then

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homeschooling and then the, the drives

that we would take our, , kids on in

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terms of, to practice, , for jujitsu.

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So we would have these conversations

and it turned out that, , the kids

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were actually very interested in

these kinds of things, especially

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my oldest, uh, , Jackson.

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So he was, he was one of those kids

that would, Here's something, , we, we

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discuss it and then you ask a follow

up question, which was actually,

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, really easy to start teaching.

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And, um, on the, on the other side

of this now, , all three kids have

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a business and this is kind of the

compliment I was talking about is,

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, as, as they've grown and now they've

all started their own businesses.

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Um, the, the understanding of not only

money, but investing it and reinvesting

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it into the company that they're running

so that they are trying to, , grow a

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:

business and then making the money work

for them in Bitcoin, , that's, that's one

318

:

of those things that we've, we've really

kind of, And now to the point where like

319

:

kids are coming up, handing us, , wads

of cash and going, all right, let's write

320

:

this down in our notebook of how many

sats you owe me when it's time for me

321

:

to come back and get this kind of stuff.

322

:

So it, , the money aspect is,

uh, is, is, is very upfront.

323

:

And it's really interesting to see.

324

:

That the kids have figured out that if

you provide something to the market,

325

:

um, that provides value, they're going

to give you value back and make money.

326

:

And that's, , when you've got a

nine year old who can go out and

327

:

make over a hundred dollars an hour

selling bead bracelets, , it's, it's

328

:

one of those proof of work things.

329

:

Yeah.

330

:

Scott: Yeah.

331

:

Plus It's exciting to be able

to watch the kids learn, right?

332

:

There's something like that and I

know that I want to ask you guys like

333

:

what are your biggest surprises are

but like for me One of the surprises

334

:

was just how much kids can absorb and

if you don't hold them back with any

335

:

preconceived notions They can learn

anything And learn it way earlier, right?

336

:

They'll figure out the money, the

chicken, the, the, the whatever.

337

:

But, um, from your perspective,

what was like, what's been like a,

338

:

something that was very surprising?

339

:

Something you did not expect

when you started homeschooling?

340

:

Shane: Um,

341

:

Meredith: I mean, you just said about,

you know, what kids can learn something

342

:

that you don't even realize is possible

at a specific age or a certain age.

343

:

Like they hit that milestone

way before it's expected.

344

:

I would say Sawyer, our daughter.

345

:

She, she's, she's the smart one.

346

:

She's, she retains so much and

like, she'll be, you know, I'll

347

:

be drilling my oldest about some

math problem that he's just.

348

:

It's not clicking, and she's sitting

across the table, not looking

349

:

at the numbers in front of her.

350

:

He's sitting there trying to figure

out a basic, you know, division

351

:

fact, and she's, she's just

looking at me like, can I say it?

352

:

Can I say it?

353

:

Can I say it?

354

:

And he gets so mad at

her, but she knows it.

355

:

She's, she's honestly a full

year ahead in math, probably even

356

:

more if I really got down to it.

357

:

Um, she's.

358

:

It's.

359

:

She's a little math whiz for sure.

360

:

Um,

361

:

Shane: surprising.

362

:

I think more or less what the

culmination of this has been

363

:

so far is the most surprising.

364

:

I think when, I talk about this quite

a bit, and I think we talked about it

365

:

on the panel together, is this, this

understanding that I think, , John

366

:

Taylor Gatto put it very, very

succinctly, is genius is actually

367

:

a extraordinarily common thing.

368

:

The problem is, is the, the system of

school that we have that, , says sit

369

:

down, submit to the culture, don't

think out, don't just regurgitate,

370

:

get good grades, get a job, go to

college, , and pay taxes and all

371

:

that stuff for the rest of your life.

372

:

Right?

373

:

So, and that's the culmination of the

antithesis of this is, , trying to, to

374

:

create well functioning human beings

that have explored their passions and in

375

:

having the time dedicated to exploring

those passions has really found a niche

376

:

in the world and that niche because of

the time and the passion and the work

377

:

that, that provides a genius level of

understanding, , you're, you're much

378

:

more likely to get to that 10, 000 hours

of masterful level of whatever it is.

379

:

If you're allowed to just absolutely

devour whatever information

380

:

you want that is your passion.

381

:

And so to see these kids be able to

not only do that, but to, , to be able

382

:

to, , now that they're coming into

teenage years, get a little extra rest.

383

:

Yeah, instead of waking

up at like 6 or 7 a.

384

:

m.

385

:

to, , rush out the door and be force

fed, , gobbledygook by the state

386

:

for, , how many hours plus homework is

like, no, I'd actually, I think what's

387

:

healthier is letting them sleep in a

little bit, um, , take care of their

388

:

chores in the beginning of the day.

389

:

Knock out what they need in terms of

school and then turning them loose to go

390

:

down those paths that they choose so that,

, at some point they are teaching us things.

391

:

They are running those things

and you start to see these human

392

:

beings develop much earlier.

393

:

They can communicate with all, all

sorts of, , all ages, which is, is,

394

:

the common place in society instead of

being in these age restricted groups

395

:

with the lowest common denominator,

um, and just seeing, , these, these

396

:

amazing personalities develop out of

those things because they have freedom,

397

:

, and that, piece that you talk about,

, is, , taking self custody of education.

398

:

, those kids, as soon as they can read

and write and do some simple, , math,

399

:

yeah, with the power of, , these

things that are monitored, , what

400

:

a education is super cheap.

401

:

It's, it's the indoctrination

that's expensive.

402

:

And so this, this has

gotten to the point where.

403

:

I, I've just, I'm tickled to death

at who these kids are becoming.

404

:

And, , as a parent, you not only

want to be proud, but you want them

405

:

to be ready, , as, as young adults,

when it's time for them to launch.

406

:

And so I think that's probably what

I'm most excited about is like this

407

:

contribution to society through,

through our kids is like, all

408

:

right, here, here's how we did it.

409

:

Putting out three pretty

good contributions.

410

:

That's what we think so far anyway.

411

:

Not to toot our own horns.

412

:

Yeah.

413

:

So when you

414

:

Scott: guys started, was that.

415

:

One of the motivators was to avoid

the conformity like it or was that

416

:

something that you learned later

417

:

Shane: you

418

:

Meredith: That was even

on my brainwaves like I I

419

:

Shane: I've got a few books behind

me back here But I think my most

420

:

influence Influential person than

I ever read was John Taylor Gatto.

421

:

He was the one that kind of broke the

spell and he did it in a way When I

422

:

was overseas, I had just come off the

battlefield in Fallujah in November

423

:

of oh four, and I got this book on

my bed called The Underground History

424

:

of American Education, and I was just

like, oh, why do I wanna read this?

425

:

Oh my God.

426

:

I read it and it was all about 19 or

17 hundreds Prussia and creating a

427

:

monoculture to go off and, , go turn knobs

and push buttons, basically, , homogenous

428

:

culture and if they needed to go to war.

429

:

This, this indoctrinated patriotism to

go and invade other lands and take blood.

430

:

I was already overseas doing that.

431

:

And I was just like, Oh, wow.

432

:

Like, so yeah, I mean, that's,

that was what kind of woke me up.

433

:

And so, , having John Taylor Gatto

is, , my, I don't know, the guy

434

:

that, , kind of did this for me.

435

:

It was one of those things where it was

like, Yeah, I don't think I can, I don't

436

:

think in good conscience, I can have

my kids go through the same process.

437

:

Scott: Yeah.

438

:

So Merith, what was it for you

then, if it wasn't avoiding the

439

:

nonconformity or whatever you

want to call that, that whole,

440

:

Shane: that whole piece?

441

:

What was it for you?

442

:

Meredith: I just didn't feel like, I

couldn't imagine sending our oldest at

443

:

the time, like, putting him on a school

bus and he was so little and, I mean,

444

:

he wasn't little, our kids are pretty

tall children, but I just, The thought

445

:

of him going somewhere where I could do

everything he would be doing at school.

446

:

It's like, I, I got this.

447

:

I can do this.

448

:

And initially, I don't know

how it is in your area.

449

:

You know, a lot of the.

450

:

Preschools and the pre k classes are

offered at like local churches and stuff.

451

:

And I was like, oh, what's the harm?

452

:

We can just send him.

453

:

Do you remember this?

454

:

Send him to a little preschool.

455

:

He'll have fun He'll do arts and crafts

and come home and tell us stories but

456

:

nope, we kept him with us and yeah

for me it was more I just I couldn't

457

:

imagine not having him home with me.

458

:

Scott: Yeah, I wish that people, like,

if we're doing audio only, could see

459

:

how, , how big your smile is when

you're, like, talking about, like, this.

460

:

Because I'm totally, I mean, well, I

need to let you jump in here, sweetie.

461

:

, maybe you can comment on why, you

know, just briefly why you wanted

462

:

to spend time with the kids.

463

:

Tali: Um, originally, like you, I was

going to, um, Go back to work and we

464

:

actually had a nanny ready to go and I

was going to stay home for six months

465

:

and then hand the baby over to her and

I was going to go back to work and I was

466

:

holding the baby in my arms After we got

home from the hospital and I thought, you

467

:

know, if I went back to work, I won't ever

see her I'll leave the house before she

468

:

wakes up I'll come home after she goes

to bed and because I was I was gonna go

469

:

into investment banking and I was like

She's gonna grow up not knowing who I

470

:

am and I'm not going to know who she is.

471

:

So we decided to stay home and

That what you mentioned, uh, about

472

:

being a school teacher, having a

background, that was the thing that

473

:

I, that scared me the most because

I don't have a teaching background.

474

:

And I assumed that in order for

you to homeschool, you needed to

475

:

have a school teacher background.

476

:

So that was one of the first

things I had to get over.

477

:

But I think in terms of young moms

who are listening to this podcast,

478

:

something that, that is sort of a day

to day challenge that I, I would like

479

:

for you to talk about is because your

kids are close in age and you started

480

:

when you were first was Preschool age.

481

:

It sounds like at the time you would have

had either a one year old or a newborn

482

:

and you were pregnant So, how do you

balance that for the new moms out there?

483

:

Meredith: so honestly when I first started

with our oldest it was like the easiest

484

:

time because We did have a newborn.

485

:

I guess she was newborn through that

486

:

Shane: So, yeah, we had Jackson

who's two years older than his

487

:

brother, Henry, who's barely, , 13

months, 14 months, the last two are

488

:

Meredith: super close older.

489

:

Um, but yeah, that was honestly

the easiest time period because

490

:

the baby was still sleeping like

two, sometimes three naps a day.

491

:

Usually I could get the youngest and, um,

the middle, Our middle guy to to nap at

492

:

least once at the same time, and that's

when we did our, you know, our, our

493

:

real school and, um, it was, it's fast.

494

:

It was really fast.

495

:

It was maybe sometimes it was 2 hours.

496

:

Sometimes it was as little as an hour, but

he was like, you three, four years old.

497

:

Like you don't need to

do much during that time.

498

:

And, and at that time, it

wasn't, you know, we didn't

499

:

have, I didn't have a curriculum.

500

:

I wasn't doing it.

501

:

I was reading with him.

502

:

We were reading.

503

:

We were learning sounds.

504

:

We were, uh, learning colors and

numbers and, you know, simple

505

:

math, adding, subtracting with

little blocks or counters or cars.

506

:

Like it was just more intentional

during that time when the

507

:

younger two were sleeping.

508

:

And after that, we, we just, yeah.

509

:

It was playing all day long.

510

:

We just played and ate snacks

and they drank milk all the time.

511

:

Shane: And you black all that stuff out.

512

:

Eventually you just, you get through,

I don't know, the first six years.

513

:

And you're like, Oh, what happened?

514

:

Meredith: The first, the first time

that it was challenging was honestly,

515

:

when, when our second started needing

to do like when he was like of

516

:

kindergarten age, because at that point.

517

:

Jackson was two years older, so I

was doing second grade work with him.

518

:

So that's a little more serious.

519

:

I thought so at the time.

520

:

Now, looking back, no, it wasn't.

521

:

Was second grade that

serious for our younger two?

522

:

No.

523

:

Um, But initially, timing those naps

when their siblings are babies and

524

:

still napping, like, that's when you

do school and that's when you get

525

:

the, you know, the real, I don't want

to say serious, but concentrated,

526

:

like math reading, get it done while

their other siblings are asleep.

527

:

And then, the rest of

the day read stories.

528

:

We would go to the library story time.

529

:

We would go on field trips with

other families to local, like.

530

:

Farms or apple orchards, pumpkin

farms, do all that kind of stuff.

531

:

I did a lot more of that stuff

532

:

Shane: when they were young.

533

:

You guys, you guys even had mops.

534

:

Meredith: Oh, that's right.

535

:

I went to mothers of preschoolers.

536

:

It's pretty common in a lot of areas.

537

:

It's I think a nationwide thing.

538

:

So we did mops for three or four years

and I made, I honestly have a friend that

539

:

we still, um, go to, you know, little

field trips with and all our kids are the.

540

:

Same age so it's nice for them to see

each other every once in a while because

541

:

we don't live close to them anymore

542

:

Shane: lots of snacks lots of

diaper bags lots of Just hanging out

543

:

with your kids and try and yeah in

doing, , the normal stuff, you know

544

:

It's like it's Sesame Street only in

real life And if you can make it fun,

545

:

then , they're they're they're gonna

they're gonna want to learn Right.

546

:

I

547

:

Meredith: mean, and this was back

when I was very fixated on our

548

:

school time looking like school too.

549

:

So had it been Meredith of today

back then, it probably would

550

:

have been a lot more laid back.

551

:

We would have been.

552

:

incorporating a lot more

chores, I think, back then.

553

:

Easy, easy little kid chores that I

should have made them do but didn't.

554

:

Tali: Yeah, I do.

555

:

I think, I think, um, one of the things

that new, new potential homeschoolers

556

:

might be looking at is just they feel

like they have to be so structured and

557

:

so they are trying to Like what you're

saying, they're thinking traditional,

558

:

they're thinking you're sitting at a

desk, you're forcing your child holding

559

:

a pen, all that stuff, and you have

two little ones running around, right?

560

:

Um, but what I realized really quickly

was we can get a whole lot more done in

561

:

a lot shorter period than schools can.

562

:

So if you think about preschools,

you're dropping them off for

563

:

three hours, their 15 minutes.

564

:

So if we can knock it out in 15 minutes,

the rest of the time, they just play.

565

:

Like you're saying, they're living

the real life and they're interacting.

566

:

So I think that's something that

we, we should share with new moms

567

:

to reassure them that it's okay.

568

:

Kind of like what you're saying, like now.

569

:

Yeah.

570

:

When you're looking back, it's like, we

don't need to take it that seriously,

571

:

especially at that age anyway.

572

:

Meredith: Yeah.

573

:

That was really hard for me to get

over coming from an entire life,

574

:

either being in public education

or teaching in public education.

575

:

Like I thought.

576

:

The fact that it just took us

10 minutes to do an addition

577

:

lesson like that probably isn't

okay and it should be longer.

578

:

I feel like sometimes you would come out

if when you were working at home, you'd be

579

:

like, why aren't you guys doing anything?

580

:

I'm like, well, we're done like, and you

know, the kids are playing or whatever.

581

:

And I think I think sometimes.

582

:

You're like, why aren't

you guys doing more

583

:

Shane: work?

584

:

The principle.

585

:

Yeah.

586

:

That's kind of the rule.

587

:

Because obviously I work from home

and so the school room and the

588

:

home are never that far apart.

589

:

So you know, you're always checking in

on stuff, but , to, to the young mothers

590

:

and fathers that are out there that,

uh, are, are thinking about doing this

591

:

and are doing this, um, I, , for you

guys, I don't know, , even you, I don't

592

:

know what age you kind of figured out

that your mom and dad didn't have any.

593

:

clue as to what the hell they were doing

with you when they were, you, you were

594

:

growing up, just like you don't have any,

, instruction manual on how to do this.

595

:

Like, this is, this is

trial by fire kind of stuff.

596

:

I know they write books and all that

kind of stuff as other people, , however,

597

:

, like your, your situation is unique.

598

:

There's a lot of nuance

in all of these things.

599

:

And, , as long as you don't

give up and you fail fast and

600

:

you learn from your mistakes.

601

:

That's, that's the whole point

to this entire thing that

602

:

we're doing in terms of life.

603

:

So yeah, don't be intimidated like,

Oh, I don't know how to do this.

604

:

You'll figure it out.

605

:

You really will.

606

:

Yeah, get some bumps

607

:

Scott: and bruises along the way

and that's how you, that's how you

608

:

learn your, I think you're also

teaching them time preference.

609

:

Like you're saying the most

important thing is, did you

610

:

understand this lesson or not?

611

:

Did we accomplish that?

612

:

Not, can you sit still in a chair for 45

minutes or I'm going to give you a drug

613

:

and give you a label of some kind, right?

614

:

Um, kids are absorbing

that framework of how

615

:

you a lot of really cool things there.

616

:

Tali: I, there's something I want

to challenge you a little bit on

617

:

Shane that you mentioned before

618

:

Shane: reading books.

619

:

No,

620

:

Tali: no, we, we have thousands and

thousands of books in our house.

621

:

I mean, this is like a tiny little

fraction of, I mean, anyway, but

622

:

there, there's a, um, at the trend

in the homeschooling community and

623

:

we've been in it longer than you.

624

:

Um, by about 10 years, I think, and

so I'm, I'm seeing it everywhere

625

:

and we've moved across multiple

states and all different groups,

626

:

but the trend is always there.

627

:

We're teaching kids how to start

a business, run a business.

628

:

We're, we're teaching them money

in that really practical way.

629

:

I think my challenge is.

630

:

To the, that mentality is we, it's almost

like, okay, growing up, I'm Chinese.

631

:

We had one of five

occupations to choose from.

632

:

You can either be a doctor, engineer, a

lawyer, a computer scientist, or something

633

:

else, um, probably probably business.

634

:

And outside of that, you are

not allowed to pursue anything

635

:

else professionally, right?

636

:

And so if we're, as Bitcoiners,

on the one hand, we're saying

637

:

Bitcoin is simplifying things.

638

:

The reason that the fiat system is forcing

us to look at money and earning money

639

:

and that whole process of, um, uh, being

able to, like, earn a living that is...

640

:

We're trying to teach that to

our kids, but at the same time, I

641

:

feel like we're walking a really,

really thin line to balance that.

642

:

You know, maybe, maybe somebody's

child really just wants to,

643

:

to be an astrophysicist.

644

:

And all he wants to do is calculate math.

645

:

And he doesn't care about

generating some type of value in

646

:

exchange for money right now at.

647

:

Elementary school age and, but when we

are talking about it and talking about

648

:

it with them and we do the same, we

do the same thing to our kids, right?

649

:

A lot of families do the same thing,

but it's almost like we're forcing

650

:

them to continually focus their money

on generating, their eyes and their

651

:

mind on generating income by providing

value for, in exchange for compensation

652

:

and, Isn't that what we're trying

to get away from with the Bitcoin

653

:

standard, which is you can take your

eye off of that because Bitcoin makes

654

:

it simpler because we're not trying

to fight this inflationary pressure.

655

:

And

656

:

Scott: you're not trying to

conform all your kids into one.

657

:

Tali: Yeah.

658

:

I'm not sure if I'm explaining it right.

659

:

You know, like I don't think all

people should be business people

660

:

personally, because there are people

who should be scientists or artists or.

661

:

Yeah.

662

:

Okay.

663

:

Shane: Anyway, yeah, no,

great, great question.

664

:

Um, I think, , one of the biggest

things that I always see in,

665

:

in Bitcoin is proof of work.

666

:

Um, and proof of work is one of those

things where, um, , the, it's, it's

667

:

an understanding that there is a

value that you're going to have to

668

:

provide to society somehow, , that's,

and that's up to the passion.

669

:

Um, , just because our

kids, uh, can, , yeah.

670

:

Put out a, , a decent product

and they like doing it.

671

:

It doesn't mean that that's

for all of them forever.

672

:

It's a season.

673

:

And so, , in a, in a season,

it's, it's almost like a course so

674

:

that they can, they can do this.

675

:

They can either, , Excel at it or drop it.

676

:

For whatever else that they're going

to do, but at some point they do

677

:

have to have skin in the game and

skin in the game in a Bitcoin society

678

:

is the name of it because what we,

, obviously as Bitcoin maximalists,

679

:

what we don't want are rent seekers.

680

:

Like what we're trying to do is cut

the rent seekers out of our lives.

681

:

So if they're not providing

value and it's in, and they don't

682

:

really have skin in the game.

683

:

, I hate to say it, but it's going to be

obviously awfully hard to eat at some

684

:

point, , these, these lucky kids that

do get into Bitcoin early and inherited.

685

:

Now, this is going to be an interesting

thing, I think, , is as kids that

686

:

have, , provided, maybe a couple

thousand dollars into Bitcoin by the

687

:

time they were like 10, 11, 12 years old.

688

:

And, by the time they're

22 22 and they've gone to

689

:

through three having events.

690

:

They might be able to

do whatever they want.

691

:

They might be, they might be those

guys that see talent, see passion,

692

:

and now are the people that can deploy

those resources into, , philanthropy.

693

:

Like, and so, like, it is a curious

world in this changing paradigm, and I

694

:

think that's maybe the most important.

695

:

thing for people to understand is

we're on a gradient now, right?

696

:

Like we're, we're on a fiat standard

right now for the most part, but we're,

697

:

, we're quickly moving as of today, um,

towards more of a, a Bitcoin standard.

698

:

So, , to, to say at any point where,

, it's right or wrong, I think it's

699

:

like, where are you at on the continuum

and, and how, how are you operating?

700

:

Are you, are you operating in

a , and Naeem Bukele, El Salvador,

701

:

uh, Bitcoin continuum down there.

702

:

If you are, you're

probably way further ahead.

703

:

If you're not, and you're still here

in the U S and the Fiat standard,

704

:

then, , maybe you're going to

have to make some adjustments.

705

:

Maybe you're going to have to

create some community around you.

706

:

And I think a lot of that's

going to kind of determine.

707

:

Um, your path, your passion, uh, and,

and, and how you're going to, to make

708

:

not only ends meet, but how to really

fulfill, , that, that calling that

709

:

you have, that you were, , innately,

uh, given by, , the universe or God or

710

:

whatever, , higher power you subscribe to.

711

:

Tali: The reason I mention it is because,

um, we have four kids and all through

712

:

growing up, every time we see them.

713

:

Demonstrate that they're good

at something immediately.

714

:

Scott's giving them ideas to

monetize and we've gotten.

715

:

Scott: Yeah.

716

:

So this, this question is, is

also internal just so you know,

717

:

like this is not, and we've gotten

718

:

Tali: to the point where, um, , our

daughters, they, we talk all the

719

:

time and they're in college and.

720

:

One of them I was giving her an

idea because she's really good in

721

:

meditation and yoga and stuff like that.

722

:

I'm like, why don't you start

your own channel and then you can

723

:

monetize and you can build up a farm.

724

:

She goes, Mom, I really don't want to turn

every single one of my passion into a job.

725

:

Yeah, but that's what we're

Always talking about, you know, so

726

:

Scott: I'm split on this.

727

:

I understand you don't want to focus

your kids, but on the other hand, like,

728

:

I, I think that there are a lot of

people out there who are trying to gear

729

:

their kids to become a rent seeker, like

to, to be, to be a better rent seeker.

730

:

And I think the public schools now

you're trying to conform to how to be

731

:

a better rent seeker at the end, as

opposed to a young adult that has critical

732

:

thinking skills and can challenge.

733

:

Um, So, I mean, exposure to

that, I mean, that's a...

734

:

Shane: I guess I don't

do it for everything.

735

:

And I definitely agree, like...

736

:

You encourage it when it's

appropriate, I would say.

737

:

But there are some things, , where I guess

maybe I have said that with video games.

738

:

Like, listen, there's a...

739

:

I think in the back of my head,

subconsciously, is like, Look, if

740

:

this is what you're going to do,

there's a giant market for it.

741

:

Figure out your piece of it

and, and maybe grow that.

742

:

But , there you're, you're exactly right.

743

:

Talia is, is, , when, when you look

at this, this passion and like soulful

744

:

stuff that, , doesn't necessarily

need to be marketed, um, , I, I

745

:

see it in my own life, whether

it's spending time in the outdoors.

746

:

Mostly spending time in the outdoors,

honestly, or with your kids, right?

747

:

Like, , a lot of people will

monetize their kids in terms

748

:

of, , social media and everything.

749

:

All that kind of stuff.

750

:

And like, I think, , maybe that's a

straight, like, that's not for us.

751

:

But, um, yeah, the, the ability

to just have a hobby and enjoy

752

:

the heck out of your hobby and be

fulfilled by it and find, , great

753

:

meaning in it and mastery and.

754

:

, really, maybe that's just your

thing and nobody else has to

755

:

share that or make money on it.

756

:

Yeah, honestly, I think it's a

it's an amazing thing for me.

757

:

Like I I love woodworking.

758

:

I love doing all that kind of

stuff and As soon as I monetized

759

:

it, I kind of I burned out.

760

:

He lost the time to

761

:

Meredith: do it, too Yeah, um, I will say

too like as far as college goes we went we

762

:

both went to college We both went through

the public school system before college.

763

:

Um Our kids here and there will ask, like,

do I need to go to college or how do you

764

:

Shane: answer that?

765

:

College?

766

:

Um, no, 100%.

767

:

No,

768

:

Meredith: I mean, it depends.

769

:

Do I want you to go to college

just to figure out life?

770

:

Probably not

771

:

Shane: expensive proposition these

772

:

Meredith: days.

773

:

Um, but if you become really passionate

about, I could see Sawyer, she's

774

:

mentioned a couple times in the past

wanting to be a doctor of some sort,

775

:

like, If that's your thing, and you

want to go become a pediatrician, and

776

:

advocate for kids, and take care of

kids, then who are we to stop you?

777

:

Shane: Yeah, I mean, there are certain

things, like if you're going to be an

778

:

engineer, if you're going to be a lawyer,

if you're going to be a doctor, you

779

:

know, things of those nature, right?

780

:

If I'm being

781

:

Meredith: honest, if you want

to be a teacher, I really

782

:

don't think it's necessary.

783

:

There we go.

784

:

I don't.

785

:

But.

786

:

I'm sure it could help some

people who maybe aren't quite

787

:

as passionate about teaching

788

:

Shane: others.

789

:

On the economic front, , for anybody

that's wondering is, if you think

790

:

you're, you're, you're kids or

you should go to college, find the

791

:

value proposition in it, right?

792

:

Is, is the job that you can get coming

out of school going to be profitable

793

:

enough to where you can pay for the debt

that you're probably going to incur?

794

:

Um, unless you're working a full

time job and maybe not taking a

795

:

full load like I did, um, , that's,

that's your value proposition is

796

:

that doesn't make economic sense.

797

:

If it doesn't make economic sense, then

you definitely should not go to college.

798

:

Meredith: We have dual enrollment

opportunities and in Georgia.

799

:

So I think it's once they hit

about 15 years old, they can

800

:

apply at certain colleges and we

have a few pretty close to us.

801

:

Good technical school.

802

:

There's a, you know, huge list of what

they can get and in Georgia, it's free.

803

:

So I'm really going to encourage

that for the kids to test the waters

804

:

before they decide to commit to

going to a university of any kind.

805

:

Scott: Yeah, there's a ton of resources.

806

:

I agree with both of what you're

saying for, for listeners who

807

:

haven't yet started their journey or

maybe their kids are really young.

808

:

The other thing I would just

mention is notice that none of us

809

:

are talking about any concern about

getting into school if you wanted to.

810

:

Right.

811

:

Just because you homeschool

doesn't mean that you are somehow

812

:

cut off from that route if that's

actually what you want to pursue or

813

:

your, your child wants to pursue.

814

:

, that wasn't even a, that's not

a concern that if you're worried

815

:

about that as you're starting

your homeschooling journey, it's

816

:

more of what's right for your kid,

which is the right question to ask.

817

:

Meredith: Say that again.

818

:

How did that process go for your

kids that chose to go to, to college?

819

:

Tali: Oh, here goes.

820

:

Okay.

821

:

So that was during COVID.

822

:

So all four, all four of my kids actually,

they graduated about the same time.

823

:

My oldest graduated right

at the beginning of COVID.

824

:

So everything was shut down.

825

:

So she took a year off.

826

:

So the following year we

did school applications for

827

:

four kids at the same time.

828

:

And it, it was painful.

829

:

And all four of them did go to school.

830

:

Um, can I

831

:

Scott: say something real quick?

832

:

So Meredith, just so you know, so our

kids, we have a real tight shot group.

833

:

So all four kids, like within five years.

834

:

And then when Tali was teaching,

she didn't hold any of them back.

835

:

So, if our youngest happened to be in

the same room with our oldest, like,

836

:

they just got off the same thing.

837

:

It's like she was just teaching them.

838

:

And, and this, so, so what it

led to was a situation where the

839

:

youngest was ready to graduate at

the high school level really early.

840

:

Because Tali just let him go

along with all the other classes

841

:

with the, with the others.

842

:

So the reason we were in that

situation was, first of all,

843

:

their ages were close together.

844

:

And then Tali's method of saying

that you're, you know, you guys

845

:

are all in this, we're going to

go do X subject or X activity.

846

:

So anyway, sorry.

847

:

No,

848

:

Tali: that's fine.

849

:

So, so they all got in and they all

did do college for at least one year

850

:

before my two boys decided to drop out.

851

:

And we had a conversation.

852

:

Uh, with our oldest one, uh, oldest boy,

and he said, why are you letting me, why

853

:

are you giving me the option to drop out?

854

:

Because we both also went through

the whole public school system

855

:

and brand name colleges, brand

name graduate schools and stuff.

856

:

And so he was like, why are

you letting me drop out now?

857

:

And I said, but because you've gone

for a year, you, you've seen what

858

:

it's like and you have gathered data.

859

:

And if we have new data and we don't

reevaluate our decision, then that's.

860

:

Just really stupid on our part.

861

:

So they went out they gathered data.

862

:

He did not like what he saw He didn't

think it was worth the money and

863

:

the time that we were investing.

864

:

So he said I'm dropping out

I said, well, that's fine.

865

:

You better have a plan and he does you

know, he's engaged he's working a good

866

:

job They're planning he and his fiance

they're planning out their life out.

867

:

So Our two girls decided to go back

because they wanted that social exposure.

868

:

They understand they don't go to

school for the academic component

869

:

because the academic component is easy.

870

:

You can get that for free on the

internet, you know, you can get it

871

:

for free all different places, but

they wanted to be in that environment

872

:

because they grew up in the

homeschooling community and they wanted.

873

:

To have that experience before

they enter adulthood, but

874

:

that's that was their choice.

875

:

We evaluated up to the first year.

876

:

They decided to go back with the

understanding of their pros and cons

877

:

of the debt and the job placement

opportunities, things like that.

878

:

But I do want to address 1 thing that you

mentioned when our 4 kids were growing up.

879

:

That they graduated around the same time.

880

:

So, it goes back to our discussion

earlier in our podcast about, like, sort

881

:

of the balance between giving them free

time and teaching them self discipline.

882

:

I think Shane mentioned that, , having,

giving the kids free, big blocks of

883

:

free time so they can pursue their

passion is so important because

884

:

they don't get that in either public

school or private school, right?

885

:

So, if you look at our oldest kid

and our youngest kid, the oldest

886

:

kid was Very structured, very, very

structured up until she left college

887

:

because I had all my attention on her.

888

:

Well, when the youngest, when he

was 12 and he graduated school, I

889

:

didn't feel right to continue to

over structure him because I...

890

:

If I'm going to graduate him from high

school, I need to place some trust on him.

891

:

But if you look at the two of

them, I hope they're not listening.

892

:

But if you look at the two of them,

in terms of self discipline, it's

893

:

very interesting that they both

have this incredible level of self

894

:

discipline, but in different areas.

895

:

So Caden has tremendous He's very, very

good technically and on the computer,

896

:

very independent, and he is extremely

self disciplined when he chooses to

897

:

believe in the value of the task.

898

:

And then he is like military

level discipline, right?

899

:

Brianna is disciplined.

900

:

Across the board because she believes

that that's what she should do and if

901

:

you look at their energy Expenditure

in being disciplined in what they're

902

:

doing Caden reserves a lot of it for

his own expression and then he'll

903

:

use it when it's necessary whereas

Brianna uses most of her energy trying

904

:

to So that's such a fine line, you

know, which way do you go, right?

905

:

Do you, do you, do you push on

the self discipline or do you push

906

:

on the freedom to self express?

907

:

Where

908

:

Scott: are you guys on this?

909

:

Like where, I mean, what's,

what's the next step for you guys?

910

:

Cause you guys are, I mean, the kids are

a little bit younger than where we're at.

911

:

What are you guys thinking about?

912

:

Meredith: Um, I would say that our

youngest has a lot more self discipline.

913

:

I, I, I'm trying to work this year,

especially with the oldest on the

914

:

self discipline aspect of of school.

915

:

And it's it's school.

916

:

It's not other things.

917

:

I don't think it's it's schoolwork.

918

:

And I don't, I don't want to

require school tasks of him.

919

:

But I was, I was telling you the

other day, like, he does need to

920

:

know how to do some basic things.

921

:

He should be able to write it.

922

:

An essay and explain.

923

:

I don't care what the topic is.

924

:

Explain something to me.

925

:

Tell me something.

926

:

Tell me your beliefs

about something, right?

927

:

Right.

928

:

We, you know, your opinion, um, they

do need to have basic math skills.

929

:

I feel like he's still at the level of

needing some more basic math skills.

930

:

Um, the so, for me, self discipline

is maybe even a bigger focus than

931

:

just trying to cover curriculum.

932

:

Like, I want.

933

:

them to be able to be like, okay,

what do I need to accomplish today?

934

:

I'm going to get that done first, all

of it, and then I can do what I want

935

:

and, and, you know, explore my self

expression for the rest of the day.

936

:

What would you say?

937

:

Shane: I think this is, this is, I

think, really the value of homeschool.

938

:

Um, Because you, you so intimately

know each and every one of these kids,

939

:

like, , their, their personalities,

, their hopes, , their dreams, , their

940

:

fears, , all of these things.

941

:

And because it's nuanced and I, I

got to learn this firsthand growing

942

:

up with a left handed brother and

a very right handed father, right?

943

:

Like the very right handed Irish

father was like, this is the way it is.

944

:

It's done.

945

:

And when the left handed younger

brother would say, look at

946

:

the way I did the same thing.

947

:

And it would just get

absolutely, , berated and rejected.

948

:

I saw that and I, , I, I got to kind of

sit there and take a, be a judge, right,

949

:

of, Hey, dad, actually, he did this.

950

:

And not only did he do it, he actually did

it in a more efficient way than you did.

951

:

And he came about it from

a completely different way.

952

:

And so to, to see that and to

also have a left handed child.

953

:

It's, it's, it's kind of been a blessing

to see this, , determination where

954

:

some people would see a left handed

child, , drawing and using technology

955

:

and making, , designs and scripts,

like as, as maybe a waste of time.

956

:

And I see it as marketing.

957

:

I see it as, , promotion.

958

:

I see it as, , some of the

most important things that.

959

:

All successful businesses need, um, with,

, with Sawyer, , there's our youngest girl

960

:

that she mentioned, , she's, I think

like your oldest girl and she's just

961

:

very, very structured, very dedicated.

962

:

She knows what she needs to do.

963

:

She does it very well.

964

:

And she just, she likes a checklist, but

she, she also likes that, , affirmation

965

:

that like, I, I know if I do these things.

966

:

That I'm going to get praise.

967

:

And then, , there's your oldest.

968

:

And being the oldest child, I also

see, like, I have to learn my own way.

969

:

And I'm probably going to be

that stubborn hard head that's

970

:

going to make more mistakes.

971

:

I'm going to make those mistakes faster.

972

:

I'm probably going to

make bigger mistakes.

973

:

But at the end of the day, Having the

rope to do that, having, having that

974

:

leash that is like, Hey man, you get

to hang yourself with this or, , this

975

:

is going to be your greatest asset.

976

:

And so when I see, , you guys struggle and

all that kind of things with, , math or

977

:

whatever, I also know that I was that way.

978

:

And what I've been able to

accomplish, given the fact that.

979

:

I am stubborn and extremely goal

oriented and have a, have something in

980

:

my mind that I'm like, I can go do this.

981

:

And so, I think it's...

982

:

I think that's the greatest thing about

homeschool is you just, you get to really

983

:

understand the passion, the understanding

of the dreams and the fears of your

984

:

kids, and you can help them, , basically

with a rudder, more or less, rather

985

:

than that guiding, , manipulative hand.

986

:

And so that's, that's kind

of the way I see it is.

987

:

, you might not see it yet, but you know,

in the years to come, like those kids are

988

:

going to, they're going to figure it out.

989

:

And because you've provided such a loving

and endearing environment for them, most

990

:

of the time, it's going to make you proud.

991

:

Yeah.

992

:

And you're letting them

993

:

Scott: fail too.

994

:

I mean, you're encouraging

them to, to figure it out.

995

:

That's really cool.

996

:

So just to kind of start

to kind of bring it home.

997

:

Um, Oh, wait, I, I.

998

:

Tali: Okay, go for it.

999

:

Um, so earlier when you were talking

about this new thing that you're

:

00:54:47,476 --> 00:54:51,406

doing with your kids, asking them to

teach you something that they know.

:

00:54:52,046 --> 00:54:54,036

I absolutely love that idea.

:

00:54:54,396 --> 00:54:57,486

And this is something that I didn't

understand when the kids were

:

00:54:57,486 --> 00:54:59,226

younger and I was a new teacher.

:

00:54:59,656 --> 00:55:04,616

I didn't understand the value of allowing

your child to teach what he or she knows.

:

00:55:05,446 --> 00:55:09,846

I thought because the, the, how I

learned it, they were young and we

:

00:55:09,846 --> 00:55:11,136

brought them to a karate school.

:

00:55:11,136 --> 00:55:15,206

And the karate teacher was always

talking about how the older kids

:

00:55:15,206 --> 00:55:16,556

should teach the younger kids.

:

00:55:16,616 --> 00:55:16,886

Right.

:

00:55:16,891 --> 00:55:20,116

And my, my oldest one at

the time, how old was she?

:

00:55:20,116 --> 00:55:21,166

Like seven or something.

:

00:55:21,166 --> 00:55:22,246

And I was like, no, no, no.

:

00:55:22,251 --> 00:55:23,386

She can't teach.

:

00:55:23,596 --> 00:55:25,366

She needs to be here to learn.

:

00:55:25,366 --> 00:55:26,926

You need to be teaching her.

:

00:55:27,286 --> 00:55:29,806

And the teach their

sensei was, was adamant.

:

00:55:29,806 --> 00:55:32,596

She's like, no, she will

learn by teaching others.

:

00:55:32,806 --> 00:55:34,426

And I didn't understand that.

:

00:55:34,876 --> 00:55:38,196

But I have since, of course, changed

my mind because I see so much

:

00:55:38,196 --> 00:55:40,996

value in me trying to teach them.

:

00:55:41,046 --> 00:55:45,346

I feel like I had a whole new education

for myself when I was homeschooling them.

:

00:55:45,346 --> 00:55:48,756

So for the new parents out there,

even if your child is very young,

:

00:55:48,756 --> 00:55:51,466

like let's say your child is three

years old and he has a two year old.

:

00:55:51,776 --> 00:55:52,556

sister, right?

:

00:55:52,916 --> 00:55:55,356

Like let him show her how to do something.

:

00:55:55,646 --> 00:55:57,426

It boosts his confidence.

:

00:55:57,466 --> 00:56:01,556

It allows him to understand

what he actually knows and

:

00:56:01,566 --> 00:56:02,996

he'll feel really capable.

:

00:56:03,226 --> 00:56:06,506

And that's more important

really than the ABCs.

:

00:56:07,776 --> 00:56:08,006

Shane: Yeah.

:

00:56:08,016 --> 00:56:08,626

A lot there.

:

00:56:09,006 --> 00:56:11,566

That's a sense of accomplishment

is that that's huge.

:

00:56:11,636 --> 00:56:15,836

You know, it's in the earlier you can get

a sense of accomplishment and he prays on

:

00:56:15,836 --> 00:56:20,556

that accomplishment and he feels or she

feels Like, wow, you know, I'm actually

:

00:56:20,556 --> 00:56:25,786

contributing to our family or this world

or this sense of like being, you know,

:

00:56:25,796 --> 00:56:30,846

that, that, that sense of being in terms

of creating a family, that, that is,

:

00:56:30,986 --> 00:56:35,526

I mean, that's a critical piece to, to

really, you know, fostering something

:

00:56:35,526 --> 00:56:36,926

that's, that's bigger than yourself.

:

00:56:37,206 --> 00:56:37,496

Yeah.

:

00:56:38,216 --> 00:56:39,556

Scott: No, I love this stuff.

:

00:56:39,606 --> 00:56:39,896

All right.

:

00:56:39,896 --> 00:56:42,266

So one of the things that I

really wanted to ask you guys.

:

00:56:43,241 --> 00:56:46,361

I had this image of some of the people

who might be listening to the show.

:

00:56:46,361 --> 00:56:49,191

And in my head, I'm thinking

of a younger couple.

:

00:56:49,301 --> 00:56:52,271

Maybe they have a newborn or a

toddler, or maybe they're just

:

00:56:52,271 --> 00:56:53,691

thinking about having a family.

:

00:56:54,511 --> 00:56:56,981

And so with with them in mind.

:

00:56:57,426 --> 00:57:01,006

What would you, for each of you,

what would be like a piece of advice?

:

00:57:01,006 --> 00:57:03,836

It could be anything from what we

were just talking about or it can

:

00:57:03,836 --> 00:57:07,616

be, books or whatever But just what

would be something that you would

:

00:57:07,616 --> 00:57:11,036

say, you know, here's something

to really think about or take home

:

00:57:14,346 --> 00:57:15,826

Meredith: Um, do you have

:

00:57:15,826 --> 00:57:16,126

Shane: something?

:

00:57:16,186 --> 00:57:18,016

I'd say, trust yourself.

:

00:57:18,476 --> 00:57:25,506

And, and, and really if I, if I was

talking to myself, , 12 years ago on, on

:

00:57:25,506 --> 00:57:31,201

this matter is I would say, hey man You're

like you've done harder things you've

:

00:57:31,211 --> 00:57:35,121

you've you've and the thing is is like

just getting to the point where you're

:

00:57:35,121 --> 00:57:40,011

a father You've done some I hope you've

done some hard things, Marriage is one

:

00:57:40,011 --> 00:57:43,671

of those things that you got to work at

school You know Especially if you didn't

:

00:57:43,671 --> 00:57:47,461

like school was one of those things you

had to work at possibly having a job that

:

00:57:47,461 --> 00:57:52,811

you just you know Had to eat a pile of poo

at , that wasn't an easy thing to do, you

:

00:57:52,811 --> 00:57:58,626

know So it's like look Kids are actually a

great blessing and they're a great reward

:

00:57:58,666 --> 00:58:00,466

in the more time that you sink into them.

:

00:58:01,486 --> 00:58:05,846

better you're going to feel

about the entire situation.

:

00:58:05,846 --> 00:58:12,936

So trust yourself, trust that you, like

you and your partner are made to do this.

:

00:58:12,936 --> 00:58:15,826

I mean, literally, this is

what the species is about.

:

00:58:16,026 --> 00:58:21,736

Have kids, be a family, raise them to,

to go out and be able to contribute to

:

00:58:21,736 --> 00:58:24,056

society and continue to the species.

:

00:58:24,056 --> 00:58:24,446

And so.

:

00:58:24,711 --> 00:58:29,121

You're innately programmed with this

intelligence to be able to do this kind

:

00:58:29,121 --> 00:58:36,381

of thing and to do it well and , this

old fashioned idea that, , a wife's

:

00:58:36,431 --> 00:58:42,471

place isn't as the homemaker and it's

discounted as some sort of I don't

:

00:58:42,471 --> 00:58:48,431

know, less than rather than this

is what makes everything else work.

:

00:58:49,431 --> 00:58:50,301

Trust.

:

00:58:50,361 --> 00:58:55,371

This is natural trust that you are

programmed to do this kind of thing.

:

00:58:55,381 --> 00:59:00,231

Trust that you will fail along the

way and trust that you can get back up

:

00:59:00,231 --> 00:59:01,911

from it because at the end of the day.

:

00:59:02,416 --> 00:59:07,256

, I don't know looking back now 12 years

if I if I would have known where I

:

00:59:07,256 --> 00:59:13,456

would be now because We made that life

decision to homeschool to have her be the

:

00:59:13,466 --> 00:59:18,466

homemaker and for me to go out and get

After it and put all that, Stubbornness

:

00:59:18,466 --> 00:59:22,926

and energy into not failing or I should

say failing fast and learning from

:

00:59:22,926 --> 00:59:27,501

those things I would be like, I would

be like, dude, it gets way better.

:

00:59:27,571 --> 00:59:28,981

It gets so much better.

:

00:59:28,981 --> 00:59:31,131

Your relationship with your

wife is going to be better.

:

00:59:31,131 --> 00:59:33,371

And your relationship with your

family is going to be better.

:

00:59:33,371 --> 00:59:35,781

Your relationship with your

community is going to be better.

:

00:59:35,971 --> 00:59:40,461

You're going to be able to contribute

more and more and more, not only to

:

00:59:40,471 --> 00:59:43,481

your family, but you're going to be

able to do these kinds of things where.

:

00:59:43,696 --> 00:59:47,646

You can contribute to other people's

families, young couples who are nervous

:

00:59:47,646 --> 00:59:52,076

about this kind of thing, taking the

edge off like this is the opportunity

:

00:59:52,076 --> 00:59:57,066

that you have before you to do something

so, so much bigger than yourself.

:

00:59:57,486 --> 01:00:00,906

That it is a, not only a blessing,

but I think it is a calling

:

01:00:01,296 --> 01:00:03,786

for young men, especially.

:

01:00:04,136 --> 01:00:08,396

And, , I'd be remiss if I didn't

say, , women, if you're, if you're

:

01:00:08,806 --> 01:00:12,776

not considering, , being a stay

at home mom, this might be your

:

01:00:12,986 --> 01:00:15,926

greatest calling on this planet.

:

01:00:17,986 --> 01:00:19,756

Meredith: You're not wasting

your life by doing it.

:

01:00:19,766 --> 01:00:20,066

Yeah.

:

01:00:23,236 --> 01:00:27,416

I would say two things, and I'm not

going to speak as eloquently as Shane

:

01:00:27,416 --> 01:00:32,886

does, but I think my first is just to

not be afraid to follow your own path.

:

01:00:33,506 --> 01:00:38,436

Um, we obviously we, we've mentioned,

we, we both are products of public

:

01:00:38,436 --> 01:00:42,526

school and going to college and

he even joined the Marine Corps.

:

01:00:42,906 --> 01:00:46,646

We obviously followed paths

that are pretty cookie cutter

:

01:00:47,536 --> 01:00:49,506

for the first part of our life.

:

01:00:49,546 --> 01:00:50,086

And.

:

01:00:50,876 --> 01:00:55,936

Now, I think more and more there

are people that are choosing a

:

01:00:55,936 --> 01:01:00,386

path similar to ours, but we still

are pretty much beaten to our own

:

01:01:00,386 --> 01:01:02,176

drum and following our own path.

:

01:01:02,286 --> 01:01:07,986

And many people and many friends

that we have maintained in our

:

01:01:07,986 --> 01:01:11,186

life don't homeschool their kids.

:

01:01:11,226 --> 01:01:14,116

Um, many of our family members

don't homeschool their kids.

:

01:01:15,016 --> 01:01:18,346

We are the outsiders, I would say, but

:

01:01:18,356 --> 01:01:20,876

Shane: we also, they also know

that there's something special.

:

01:01:20,906 --> 01:01:21,196

Yeah.

:

01:01:21,316 --> 01:01:22,886

And that's, and they'll

:

01:01:22,916 --> 01:01:26,096

Meredith: all, all everybody in our

life will, I think would be the first to

:

01:01:26,096 --> 01:01:34,196

admit that, that our kids are unique, but

not in a weird homeschool kind of way.

:

01:01:34,356 --> 01:01:35,776

We're not those weird homeschool.

:

01:01:37,456 --> 01:01:41,366

There there's, I don't want to

sound braggy, but they're special.

:

01:01:41,406 --> 01:01:44,226

They, they know how to

interact with others.

:

01:01:44,266 --> 01:01:45,426

They know how.

:

01:01:45,831 --> 01:01:54,511

to show empathy and they they're not

afraid to Be friendly with you know

:

01:01:54,531 --> 01:02:00,741

a new person they come across and

follow your own path Second thing I

:

01:02:00,741 --> 01:02:06,931

would say is this is very teachery of

me and me I'd say more teachery than

:

01:02:06,931 --> 01:02:09,161

mothery but and those are not words.

:

01:02:09,161 --> 01:02:16,846

I'm sorry I know that drives you

nuts Read to your kids Every day.

:

01:02:16,976 --> 01:02:19,326

I still every day.

:

01:02:19,826 --> 01:02:24,026

There are days when we don't

technically do school, but every day

:

01:02:24,266 --> 01:02:26,756

I am still reading aloud to my kids.

:

01:02:26,956 --> 01:02:32,166

Um, there was a time when

they all would have headlamps

:

01:02:32,196 --> 01:02:33,296

and would be reading in bed.

:

01:02:33,296 --> 01:02:35,881

I don't know that it happens

quite as much as it used to, but.

:

01:02:36,961 --> 01:02:41,341

Even if you're having a rough homeschool

day and just nothing is going right, that

:

01:02:41,341 --> 01:02:44,481

math lesson's not going right, no one's

listening, no one's doing it, they're

:

01:02:44,481 --> 01:02:47,531

fighting, they're crying, grab a book

and just start reading to your kids.

:

01:02:47,571 --> 01:02:52,001

And nine times out of ten,

it'll just reset the day and

:

01:02:52,131 --> 01:02:53,681

everything will be better.

:

01:02:54,381 --> 01:02:55,151

Reading is important.

:

01:02:56,351 --> 01:02:56,811

Scott: Love it.

:

01:02:57,131 --> 01:02:57,401

Love

:

01:03:00,081 --> 01:03:00,201

Shane: it.

:

01:03:00,261 --> 01:03:01,391

Can I add one more thing?

:

01:03:01,421 --> 01:03:02,261

Yeah, as many as you want.

:

01:03:02,351 --> 01:03:02,711

Scott: Because,

:

01:03:02,741 --> 01:03:03,161

Shane: go ahead.

:

01:03:03,651 --> 01:03:04,021

I think...

:

01:03:04,916 --> 01:03:08,796

I think this is really important

for those young guys to have fun

:

01:03:08,796 --> 01:03:13,966

with your kids, um, and, and learn

patience as fast as possible.

:

01:03:14,016 --> 01:03:19,486

If you can, if you can have fun

and make time, um, those two

:

01:03:19,516 --> 01:03:22,346

things, like, it, it goes so fast.

:

01:03:22,346 --> 01:03:24,736

And before you know it, , like,

they're as tall as you are and,

:

01:03:25,026 --> 01:03:28,256

, sometimes they are picking other

things rather than hanging out with

:

01:03:28,256 --> 01:03:30,046

you and, like, right, like, and so.

:

01:03:30,401 --> 01:03:33,941

, if, if you do those things, if you have

fun and you, you're approachable and

:

01:03:33,941 --> 01:03:38,031

you can do all these things, like those

kids are going to want to be around you.

:

01:03:38,431 --> 01:03:42,321

Um, and they're going to have,

I think those memories that,

:

01:03:42,611 --> 01:03:45,641

, hopefully they instill and then

in their next generation as well.

:

01:03:46,081 --> 01:03:46,291

Yeah.

:

01:03:46,291 --> 01:03:46,491

Those

:

01:03:46,491 --> 01:03:49,081

Scott: life experiences, especially,

I mean, the, I don't know what the

:

01:03:49,081 --> 01:03:53,161

statistics are, but once you're past

18, the number of minutes you're going

:

01:03:53,161 --> 01:03:54,401

to spend with your parents is like.

:

01:03:54,786 --> 01:03:59,626

Compared to how many while you were

growing up and so, yeah, , just

:

01:03:59,646 --> 01:04:02,166

treasure every one of those

experiences that you can get.

:

01:04:04,026 --> 01:04:05,036

So this is awesome.

:

01:04:05,036 --> 01:04:08,746

I could see like wanting to just come

back to you guys with other questions.

:

01:04:08,796 --> 01:04:12,746

Uh, are you guys comfortable with letting

people reach out to you if there's other

:

01:04:13,206 --> 01:04:14,906

Bitcoin homeschoolers that wanted to?

:

01:04:14,966 --> 01:04:18,506

And if you are, then let us know,

um, how they could reach you.

:

01:04:19,546 --> 01:04:23,076

Shane: Um, you can always

reach me, uh, Shane at...

:

01:04:23,511 --> 01:04:29,011

Shane Hazel dot com or um, I guess you'd

probably just reach out to me and then

:

01:04:29,871 --> 01:04:33,721

I'll just, I'll just, I'll just make

out, uh, make the connection, um, and

:

01:04:33,721 --> 01:04:38,831

then, , uh, that's the, that's the, the,

probably the best way is just an email.

:

01:04:39,186 --> 01:04:39,516

Email.

:

01:04:39,616 --> 01:04:39,946

Okay.

:

01:04:40,206 --> 01:04:40,216

I

:

01:04:40,216 --> 01:04:41,846

Meredith: have a podcast or not a podcast.

:

01:04:42,266 --> 01:04:44,366

I still technically have it's a blog.

:

01:04:44,576 --> 01:04:50,166

Um, it started out very crafty,

like Pinterest crafts was really

:

01:04:50,166 --> 01:04:53,696

big when Jackson was a baby

and that's what I would do.

:

01:04:53,726 --> 01:04:56,506

So I started this like crafting

blog, but then it turned into.

:

01:04:57,026 --> 01:05:00,996

me talking more about homeschooling

and curriculum and, you know,

:

01:05:00,996 --> 01:05:02,776

just little ideas here and there.

:

01:05:02,826 --> 01:05:06,796

Um, the blog's name is super

long, probably should have

:

01:05:06,796 --> 01:05:08,386

rebranded that at some point.

:

01:05:08,826 --> 01:05:09,316

Well, we'll put a,

:

01:05:09,336 --> 01:05:11,516

Scott: we can put a link, you

can say the name, but we can,

:

01:05:11,546 --> 01:05:13,626

if you send us the link, we'll

:

01:05:13,626 --> 01:05:13,736

Shane: add

:

01:05:14,576 --> 01:05:14,906

Meredith: it to the show.

:

01:05:14,906 --> 01:05:18,376

Because you most of the

time worked at home.

:

01:05:18,566 --> 01:05:18,726

Yeah.

:

01:05:19,026 --> 01:05:21,706

But I called it wait till

your father gets home.

:

01:05:23,166 --> 01:05:25,066

But like he was there most of

the time, so it wasn't like

:

01:05:25,066 --> 01:05:26,116

he was coming home from work.

:

01:05:26,116 --> 01:05:29,516

But in my mind, that That's where it

came from because initially he was.

:

01:05:30,151 --> 01:05:34,301

It's working out of the house, but

there is some stuff on there and it's, I

:

01:05:34,301 --> 01:05:38,031

mean, it's all applicable to today too.

:

01:05:38,031 --> 01:05:41,571

It's just, I haven't really

written on it in a long time, but

:

01:05:41,661 --> 01:05:42,201

Shane: it's there.

:

01:05:42,931 --> 01:05:43,471

Scott: All right.

:

01:05:43,621 --> 01:05:43,861

All right.

:

01:05:43,861 --> 01:05:47,521

Well, listen, we are so grateful that

we got to share some time with you

:

01:05:47,521 --> 01:05:51,941

guys and hear your side of the, the

Bitcoin homeschooling experience.

:

01:05:52,566 --> 01:05:55,856

And looking forward to, um,

many more conversations.

:

01:05:55,856 --> 01:05:58,206

There's a, there's a lot

of things going on, so.

:

01:05:58,526 --> 01:05:58,806

Yeah.

:

01:05:58,816 --> 01:05:59,666

A lot of good things,

:

01:06:00,106 --> 01:06:00,316

Shane: so.

:

01:06:00,326 --> 01:06:03,736

Yeah, thank you for having us on

your platform and on your new show.

:

01:06:03,786 --> 01:06:05,826

I mean, it's, it's been,

it's been a real treat.

:

01:06:05,846 --> 01:06:08,016

I've, uh, loved this

conversation, this dynamic of

:

01:06:08,026 --> 01:06:09,466

having all four of us this time.

:

01:06:09,466 --> 01:06:12,816

Uh, and, um, yeah, many

more conversations.

:

01:06:12,896 --> 01:06:15,396

Uh, please feel free to reach out anytime.

:

01:06:16,036 --> 01:06:16,396

Love it.

:

01:06:16,426 --> 01:06:19,166

Scott: Alright, well, thank you

guys and, uh, keep up the good work.

:

01:06:19,546 --> 01:06:21,006

Tali: It was really nice

meeting you, Meredith.

:

01:06:21,516 --> 01:06:22,426

Meredith: Thank you, you too.

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