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TIn this episode: why community is a verb (not your customer list), what's quietly shifting about the seven-figure goal, and how to use AI without letting it intensify the "you should do more" voice, with Annie Mosbacher, Chief Growth Officer at Dubsado.

A month before this episode, I was at Dubsado's headquarters for their Partnership Collaboration Day, and Annie said something I scribbled in my notebook the second it left her mouth: community is a verb. That line set the tone for this whole conversation.

We get into Annie's wildly windy path from classical singer to tech executive, why Dubsado pours real money into being in community with their users, what we both heard from small business owners about quietly opting out of the seven-figure dream, and how AI is intensifying the pressure to do more, faster, better... and how to find your own path. If you've been wondering whether you're "ambitious enough" lately, this one's for you.

KEY TAKEAWAYS

• The end goal isn't seven figures — it's a business that lets you live a life you love. Plenty of women in that Dubsado room are choosing to stay at $500K with one VA, on purpose.
• Community is reciprocal. If your "community" is just your customer list, it's a noun — and nouns go passive fast. Being in community is active, ongoing, and a little inconvenient on purpose.
• AI is intensifying the voice that says you should be doing more.
• Career pivots aren't reckless leaps. They're inflection points where the right question is: where can I make a bigger impact next? You can take the leap responsibly — savings, side hustles, a soft place to land — and still call it brave.
• You can't be a tourist in your community. You have to be a villager.

"Community can't exist if it's a one-sided relationship. It has to be reciprocal." — Annie Mosbacher

Connect with Annie Mosbacher

• Follow Annie on Instagram @anniemosbacher
• Keep up with Dubsado on Instagram @dubsado
• Connect with Annie on LinkedIn
• Explore Dubsado at dubsado.com

Connect with Teresa

• Join the Becoming Obsessed Playground weekly email for curiosity-led women building a life they love.
• Instagram: @becomingobsessedpod + @teresaajean
• Leave a review on Apple Podcasts — it's the biggest thank-you, and it helps ambitious women find the show
• Website: teresaajean.com

*I may receive a kickback when you use my affiliate code or link. I only share things I love and stand behind 100%! Thank you for supporting Becoming Obsessed by using my affiliate link.

Topics: how to build brand community, community as a verb, rethinking seven figures, sustainable small business, women entrepreneurs, AI and small business, ambition and self-care, curiosity-led living, personal growth podcast for ambitious women, Dubsado.

Mentioned in this episode:

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Dubsado

Because community can't exist if it's a one sided relationship.

Has to be receptive.

I think a lot of brands really get that wrong in that they think their community equates to their customers.

Well, maybe, and one could argue there is an exchange of goods and services there in exchange for money.

So maybe.

But if you just say, oh, it's our customer base, they're our community.

We love you.

We care so much about your success, it kind of becomes passive.

We welcome to Becoming Obsessed, where curiosity leads you to a life you love.

I'm Teresa Stassmy and after over a decade of traveling the world, working with small business owners and creating a couple of businesses of my own, I know a thing or two about playing by your own rules.

It's not always easy and it's often messy.

It can be hard, especially if you're doing it alone.

I've seen way too many incredible women shoot for the stars only to burn out along the way.

Or worse, live on default and never chase their dreams.

We're done with all of that together.

Together we're gonna challenge what keeps us stuck and figure out what it takes to live a life we truly love.

Today, we are becoming obsessed with community, which is nothing new around here.

But I had the chance to be in person with today's guest a month ago and she said something and I immediately wrote in my notebook, she said, community is a verb.

And I knew right then and there this is the person I need to have on Becoming Obsessed to dive into what it actually means to create community.

Today I am so excited to have Annie Mossbacher on Becoming Obsessed.

She is the Chief Growth Officer at Dubsado.

Before joining the team, she co founded Decoded, a marketing agency.

She grew to seven figures in over five years.

Her career spans exec roles across tech and nonprofit building communities, growth strategies, and marketing programs that actually work.

Annie, welcome to the podcast.

Thanks, Teresa.

I'm so excited to be here.

You have, as I just read in your bio, worked in all of these different kind of spheres and industries.

So just take me back a few steps and talk me through a little bit of your journey and how you got to be the chief Growth Officer at Dubsado.

Totally.

So sometimes when I think back on like early life and I think of what 20 year old Annie would actually process knowing that 40 year old Annie is a tech executive, she would like actually maybe die laughing.

Like, this is not at all where I thought I would land.

So yeah, I have, I've had a really kind of windy path to where I am, but starting at the very end, it's like, I love it so much, and I wouldn't do anything differently.

So I started my career in the nonprofit space, so.

So I have always been quite kind of politically active, active in my own communities, and that really drove me into wanting to seek out the nonprofit space as my career.

I've always been a big Parks and Rec fan, which is kind of putting it lightly.

So people that know me know that there's a lot of Parks and Rec in my life.

Like, I quoted it at my wedding, like, this is a big part of my life.

And so, like, some of the joking of that TV show aside, I was just very inspired by the concept of, how are there different ways from more of a local perspective that I could craft a career that really gives power back.

And so I started in the nonprofit space, kind of wound my way through some local government work because I definitely, like, live the Leslie Note vibe, and ended up getting my master's degree in nonprofit and higher ed administration.

So really was, like, down that path.

And, you know, the more that I kind of worked in that space, I worked for a handful of different nonprofits, felt so wonderful about the impact that I was making there.

And through complete chance, I stumbled on a tech company that actually sold software to people in the nonprofit space, the advocacy space, you know, the types of communities that I was working in.

And I just kind of was so mesmerized by this idea of what role could technology play in some of these industries where I was so drawn to.

And working in a software capacity allowed me to not only just kind of focus on, like, the one nonprofit that I might have run, but instead, how can I support a lot of them?

So that was the pivot, the very unexpected pivot I remember so clearly.

I actually got two job offers in the same moment, One from this softbar company and one from a nonprofit where I was going to go and run their strategy and finance.

And I made this decision.

It was one of those life decisions where you just realize, like, oh, there's actually no other choice for me.

This thing is calling me.

I know that this is the path.

And I called the incredible, incredible woman who is running this nonprofit, and I told her the heartbreaking news, and she was like, well, what is the role that you're taking?

Like, tell me what you're leaving me for.

And I was like, well, it's this tech company, and I don't really know how to describe it, but it's gonna be really cool.

And so I just I knew that that was the right path for me and then that's really what pivoted my career.

So I've worked at multiple different tech companies, not all that work in the nonprofit space, but that all have a pretty like I think core to their DNA mission around serving a community that needs to be served.

So whether that was nonprofit, advocacy, political organizations at my first company, the second company was all about supporting fitness entrepreneurs.

So folks that owned gyms, fitness studios, community type of fitness, which is really cool.

And then I'll come back to the little break that I took from technology.

And of course now at Dubsado we are all about supporting small creative business owners, which is such an incredible thing and why this mission is so valuable and important to me and is that I was a small creative business owner for about five years.

I co founded Decoded like you Shared, which is a marketing agency.

We really focused on brand positioning, how to message about your business because we felt like that was something that a lot of up and coming tech companies were struggling with.

And so tech is really difficult because some people, when you describe your software here, beep boop beep boop boop boop.

And then other people here, oh, that sounds like 15 other things that I've got.

So we really liked to focus on that area of need.

But it's been super windy and I wouldn't change a thing.

But it has been wild and wacky such that my 20 year old self would laugh in my face if I told them that I worked in tech.

I often think of myself on like the spectrum of like age or like moments in time and I always look back and I'm like, oh, maybe teen.

But then I move my decisions based on 90 year old Teresa.

Oh, I'm like, what would she do?

And so when you said that I was like, I love the iterations of ourselves where it's like there's those through lines of who we are, but we also get to become different aspects of that and don't have to stay stuck.

Or like you said you got your masters in like higher ed and non profit and I love that you weren't like, okay, this is what I'm doing, I have to stay here.

When you felt that calling, you took it.

But I'm curious because when we hear the highlight of that and kind of the quick story, it sounds like it was this easy decision.

It's like I had this calling and I just, that's the path I went and now look at me now.

And it was a great decision.

But Take me back to that moment of, like, having to let go of almost this old version, or like a little bit of your identity to follow this new path.

It's such a good question, and it is when you give the three minute, five minute overview, it sounds so easy, like all these decisions came together, and it's so true that it's not.

And I'll even kind of take you back one step further because I think for me, it illustrates how much things have shifted.

So even before I started my career, most of my young life and into college and early adulthood was all focused on music.

So I played a variety of different instruments, and ultimately the path that I took was all about voice.

So I was a classically trained singer in a variety of different ways.

That's what I went to school school for.

That's actually what I started to do when I left college and went out into the world.

I had some really incredible opportunities.

Definitely had the talent there to be able to pursue it.

What I learned early in that journey is the business of performing and singing was so antithetical to the art of it, in that I can't tell you how many auditions I went to in New York City where I was sent and agents and managers would send me to places, and I would be one of six or seven hundred women who would get herded into a room and looked at without even singing, without even performing, pulled out just because of a look or just because somebody else who was the precursor in the role.

You looked similar, you had a similar type.

And I just realized so quickly that it shed all of the enjoyment for me having to go through this process that had so little to do with the 15 years of skill and artistry that I had cultivated.

And I didn't love it enough to go through that.

So for me, that was actually the first lesson that I held around, yes, I love this thing, and yes, I've invested in this thing.

But right now, I don't feel as though following that path will enable me to make the biggest impact on that industry, on my life, on the world, as I think I could.

And so I think that that has been this deciding moment in a lot of different areas where I've pivoted from performing and singing in music into the nonprofit space, and then pivoting from the nonprofit space into the tech space, and then from tech pivoting into running an agency.

It's because I hit not necessarily a wall, but I hit an inflection point where I felt as though there was another opportunity where I feel very Motivated by, in my hard work, am I making the best, biggest impact that I can?

And if there's a new opportunity or like a new excitement that pops up that allows me to do more, I'm going to follow that.

So in some ways that was difficult because I basically made all of these career pivots in my life.

That's not an easy thing to do.

But then in some ways it actually was not that difficult because for me, that I think was how I chose to follow the new opportunities that started to unravel in front of me.

Can I make a bigger impact here?

Is there something to learn and is there something else that maybe I haven't figured out that I can really contribute to this community, this industry, the world?

And that I think has been like the decision factor guiding me in these wild and wacky turns.

Which brings us now to Dubsado and being the chief growth officer at a software company that one of the things I find so interesting and I really want to hear more about it from you, is even Dubsado bringing you on somebody who is so like impacting community driven community is a verb.

Why and how?

And like to what end is a software company investing so heavily in like community and community building?

So when I first met Becca and the team here, I think what really stood out to me is that a Dubsado has been around for 10 years, which not that many software companies are around for 10 years.

Most of them last about two, maybe more.

And so the longevity of that is really impressive.

And then layered on top of it the fact that Becca and her husband, co founder Jake, they made the decision from day one that they were going to build Dubsado self funded.

So unlike a lot of other software companies who have sought out funding and have to go through a fundraising process and then have other shareholders, they chose to do it all themselves.

And I don't think that you can get to the level of success that Dubsado has in 10 years following that self funded and self reliant path without being extremely attuned to the customer experience and therefore really thinking about the community that you're cultivating.

So I think that there was already like such a significant DNA in the foundation of how they chose to run this business that that really spoke to me.

Another factor that really contributed to that is that they sort of like built Dubsado in public.

A lot of the content in the social that I get to See from back 10 years ago or 8 years ago or whatever, it was very much like we're building this thing we're learning as we go here, it is all laid out to bear.

And I think that that level of not just transparency, cause it's actually easy I think sometimes for a founder or for a business owner to be transparent.

But highlighting the choices that are being made and how the reaction from the people that we serve are influencing those choices, like that's actually where you start to again build in community.

So a lot of those seeds in that DNA really was already there.

And because I've worked in so many of these different arenas and especially my work as an agency where effectively I was selling services that were really dependent on one on one and my time, I've always, always sought like deep one to one and even one to many interactions to help infuse what we are building.

So that just I think is really inherent and it's tricky.

We have 35,000 plus customers currently and we've served more than 120,000 over the 10 years.

So that's a really big community.

I can't have one on one conversations with everybody.

So I think it's really now about like how do we stay scale what we know works, which is being in public, building in public, having conversations, infusing community input into our decisions and how do we do that at a really big scale.

I'm just excited to help build upon what's kind of been foundational to the company for so long.

And one of the ways that you've done that is with the partnership collaboration day, which is where I actually got to come hang out with you at Dubsado headquarters, talk through the conversations that led to and kind of the decision because I ran the math and I know you guys spent a pretty penny on bringing your key partners to headquarters for a couple days out in la.

And so I know that that again was this investment in community and into the actual partners and like you said, creating that one to one, one to many room, even if you can't do it for all 35 plus current users.

So I want to know like how the decision to do that kind of came to be.

Oh, it was so amazing.

And having you there, I mean I just remember it, you were like right in the front row, you were right over on stage.

Right like it just the whole thing.

And I actually think I clocked the moment where I was talking about how I define community.

Like brought it in your notebook, which is so great.

So I literally in my notebook it says community is a verb and then I have a little arrow and it says community.

Annie has to Be on the podcast.

Well, I'm obsessed with that, Teresa.

That's amazing.

So this was very much a labor of love that we had been dreaming about for a long time.

So I joined the Dubsado team officially last fall, but my agency had been working with Dubsado for about a year, year and a half.

So I've sort of been in the mix for almost two years now.

And after the first time that I came into this gorgeous LA office and had the opportunity to really start to get to know Becca and our chief people, officer Biz and the folks that have led this company, and I thought, we have got to figure out how to do an event in this office.

A lot of people don't know this, but sort of as a side hobby or just as a really beautifully cultivated skill.

Becca is like an extraordinarily talented interior designer and like event designer, event planner.

And so even just our personal dinners that we would have together were so beautifully curated and I'm like, we've got to find a way to bring like Dubsado and like these personal skills together.

So we've been talking about it for a long time and I think why we were so keen to do it when we did.

Obviously we just had our 10th birthday, Dubsado's 10 year anniversary, so that felt like a nice moment.

But for the past about year and a half, 2ish years, a lot of the focus on behalf of the company has been around rebuilding the product to relaunch in what we're now calling Dubsado, the new Dubsado, Dubsado 3.0.

And so a lot of the interactions that we've had with our community have been very specifically about the updates to the product, how we need to evolve the product, getting their input on our alpha, on our beta.

So we also continued to live that value of like building in public.

We had a lot of activity and engagement from our alpha community.

We have Slack Channel.

Our product team was like showing them screenshots of things before we saw it, you know.

So we had this great community interaction, but it was so product specific and something that I have thought about a lot as I've joined the team is for us to successfully grow and successfully serve our users.

I want us as a brand to be delivering value to the small business community beyond just the product.

We have so many incredible experts in our greater community on our staff who have gone through the exercise of building a small creative business, going through the ups and downs, figuring out what success looks like to them, figuring out how to get through the growing pains.

And so what can we do as a brand to help equip people with that type of expertise, information, best practices, even outside of the product?

So we have been so product focused in our community efforts for a few years that I thought, you know, this is a great opportunity to sort of elevate things out a little bit beyond the product itself, because businesses are only going to be around to use the product if they also know how to market themselves, if they also know how to build a financial model, it's the same thing.

So that, I think was really the reasoning behind.

Okay, we need to shift the way that we're engaged with our community.

We have these people that have been in our community for a long time.

We haven't really talked to them personally about, like, hey, Teresa, what is it like to run your business right now?

Not just like, what's your dubsado experience?

But once the bigger picture.

And that was our real goal with this.

And I just, I got chills.

I'm still over the mood with how wonderful it was.

Teresa, I made some jokes in our internal circle chat about this, but we had a photographer who took beautiful headshots of all the people here, and they were so amazing.

And like, looking at them, I'm like, these are all my new best friends.

I want to frame them and put.

Them on my wall.

Like, it just was such a great way to get to know folks and just was wildly successful.

So from my side, it was so much fun.

Like, I didn't really know what to expect.

Walking in, I back in, I think November became an ambassador for Despado just to help get the word out with my marketing agency and the podcast and working with the creative law shop.

I'm such in the creator space and I've been using Gobsado since probably not for 10 years, but it feels like it because my first business was a photographer 10 years ago and that business probably only lasted 3ish years.

But I was using Dubsado back then.

I used it back then.

So I'm somewhere in the beginning of this story as well.

And I've been using it like across kind of different businesses in different ways.

And to be honest, like, not to its full potential.

It does what I need it to.

And I'm like, all right, cool.

Now I get to like, get paid very easily.

And that to me, is what I need.

And really up leveled my this.

But what was so fun being at the partnership collaboration day and being at the headquarters in that gorgeous building.

Okay, side note, I literally was joking with Becca and I was like, I can tell if I like somebody or not based on them having exposed brick.

Like, this brick.

I said, literally, this is.

I know I love you.

Like, if I didn't already know, you appreciate history.

Like, you appreciate nice things.

And I told her.

I was like, I saw somebody online literally be like, I will never live in a ghost house.

Like, to me, I'm like, that's so far from my mentality, right?

And so just having that, like, old historic building.

And Becca was telling me how it used to be where they would make parachutes for World War II.

And I was like, my grandpa was the guy in the plane who, like, made sure the parachutes were, like, ready to go so when my guy jumped out, it would work.

Wow.

I literally just got chilled.

I was like, it's just that, like, that's where, like, deeper connection and community and like, that history that was just like such a fun tidbit and like, fun moment.

But I walked away.

I literally.

Right here, if you're watching us on the video, guys, you can see my notebook is full of like four pages of notes and something I loved so much about the partnership collaboration day is I've been using dubsado for so long, but, like, I'm not in the tea.

Like, I don't know, like all the happenings, I get the emails, I'm always like, okay, cool.

I like, follow.

But just the people in the room who were the dubsado specialists that are like, day in and out building and all of their intel and like their, yeah, this is what works perfectly.

And this is like, where I would love to see something better.

To me especially somebody who's been building software for two years, but that was so valuable and I learned so many lessons, even as like a tech founder, co founder myself, that I took away from it.

But I'm very curious.

I have a few, like, I have like my one and two top takeaways.

One of the things that I honestly can't stop thinking about, that really, really has been one of my biggest takeaways.

I had so many conversations, one on one conversations, starting in like the cocktail hour the night before, and then in some of the interstitial moments during the day itself, where organically business owners were talking to me about living in this moment where they were sort of questioning what does the end all be all success look like for me and hearing some of this perspective of a lot of times, I think as a small business owner and you think about the end goal or what success looks like, it's okay, Grow as big as possible, get to multiple seven figures, build a team of 10 or 12 and like that's the end all goal.

And unprompted and from so many different people and angles.

I kept hearing this theme of actually the more I think about it, I don't think I want to get to seven figures.

I don't want to be a two million dollar a year business.

I have myself.

You know, maybe I have a VA or one other partner.

I think that that's it.

I don't want to grow to a team of 10.

I don't want to get there.

And there was something so interesting about how many business owners in the, you know, somewhat challenging market conditions that we have in some of the evolutions of just what's happening out there to run a small business that that question mark came up not because they were concerned they couldn't achieve that, but because they realize I actually don't know that I want that.

I talked to a business owner who again now is honestly becoming one of my very good friends.

I'm obsessed with her and she's like, you know what?

I've been in this business for a few years now.

I'm going to close about half a million dollars in revenue.

It's me and a va and that is awesome.

Like I feel great about that.

Could I do a million?

Probably Do I want to do that?

Because I also want to be able to like have a more flexible lifestyle.

I want to be able to manage this myself.

I don't want to bring in a lot of team members and add to that complexity.

Like that is pretty incredible for me.

And I thought that what a great way of reflecting.

Yes, there are some challenges I think now in starting and growing a business, but determining for oneself what that end goal is.

I hadn't heard that level of clarity again unprompted and from so many different angles in quite that capacity.

So that was a big takeaway that I had.

And thinking about not only what does that mean for how we can equip our community with different types of best practices and recommendations and support in that, but even from within the product, what does it look like to help people get to whatever level of success they have?

And if you want to become a multimillion dollar business, like go get it girl.

Like that's amazing.

And you can, but that, that doesn't have to be the end all, be all for everyone.

So that has just really, really stuck with me in the ambition that I saw in that room.

And that ambition can be harnessed.

And even if it doesn't fit the, like, kind of quintessential, this is what good means for everybody.

Big, big, big, big, big.

So that is just what I've been sitting with since that event.

I love that.

And honestly, part of the reason I love it is that what this podcast is about in so many ways as well.

So I'm like, okay, full circle, Annie.

Thank you.

My, like, unofficial season two was all about balancing ambition and self care.

Because I think that, like, the best way I can describe this is politics.

Like, the loudest voices are who you think everybody is thinking.

Like, and it just isn't true.

And it's the same in entrepreneurship, it's the same in creative services.

There's people online that make a whole business out of posting receipts of how much money they've made.

And they have, like, LLM style coaching businesses.

And so, like, some of the loudest voices are just the voices that are like, the goal is a million dollars.

The goal is $10 million.

But what I'm taking from the conversation, and I saw this almost from a different angle at the partnership collaboration day, is like, the goal isn't a million dollars.

The goal is to have a life that you love.

And sometimes you can do that with a $50,000 business, a $500,000 business, and you don't have to shoot for a million for the sake of the number.

And we see all the time.

I'm a big fan of the Nathan Barry podcast.

He's the founder of Kit.

I'm a huge fan of his podcast.

And it's really the, like, ethos of it is the million dollar creator, or, like the billion dollar creator.

And we see all the time people come on his podcast and they're like, I'm at 2 million and I have no capacity for anything else.

And, like, I'd rather shrink the revenue or, like, shrink the profits, if there even are profits, so that I can actually get back to loving my life.

And I think the conversation, what I've tried to contend with and negotiate on this podcast is how can I go for big dreams without sacrificing my life?

And the person that you're talking about, where it's like, yeah, I have a half a million dollar business, it's me and maybe one other person.

And that feels good.

And then I think of your journey that you shared.

Annie, too.

Of like, there comes a time where you're called to something else, and sometimes maybe that's another offer that does grow your revenue.

Maybe that's another way you serve your people.

Maybe it's a shift altogether.

But instead of chasing and, like, being like, okay, well, I have to hit the numbers.

It's like, how do I build the life I want?

And we're human, and so usually we hit a place where we feel like we've plateaued and we now want to chase something else.

It's all about the journey.

And so sometimes that does drive you to a higher revenue.

Sometimes it's maybe pivoting into something else, but it's almost like waiting for that call.

And as somebody who loves to do way too many things and say yes to everything, it's kind of like, how do I allow myself to do that?

How do I build a life where I can do that and still, like, again, have the systems bring it back to Dubsado, right?

Like, have the systems that actually support so that you can build further.

And, like, your capacity isn't all, like, in the Tech Star, my least favorite thing is connecting tech stacks, which is one of the reasons I love Dumpsado, because it's just like, I can do so many things just right in there.

But what I took away, the way that I phrased it from in my notebook, was the same thing that you took away, but a different angle, which is that so many people are now focused on sustainability of their business.

And I call it self sustaining.

How do we create a business that's self sustaining so I can show up when and how I want to and the business can run itself?

And two of the Dubsado specialists in the room both kind of mimicked back each other of saying, like, even with my clients, I used to build them every system they could ever need.

And then that would just be overwhelming.

And so now they just build, like, one of the first handful of systems to free up more of your time.

And you could hear, like, the expertise and that mentality.

And then a few of us in the room were like, okay, I feel like I'm not utilizing this to its full potential.

And it's like, great.

You shouldn't be, like, utilize it to the potential you need to.

And when you need something else, like, we've got the features for you, but until you need it, like, focus on just what's going to make it self sustaining and sustain your life.

That's so incredible.

And, you know, it's making me Reflect a little bit on running my agency.

And so I co founded it with one of my very best friends and we spent a lot of time in those very early days being really intentional about making some choices on what are our values and principles on, on how we want to build this out and how we want to run this business.

Because we are both very ambitious women.

But we also had been a little burned out from being in the tech world.

And so for us, systems played a huge part of that.

And not just technology systems, but we really did a lot to curate like the financial models that we wanted to use.

We drew a lot from what I know a ton of small business owners do.

The profit first model and the concept of yes, growing big is great, but we had seen other people, good friends who grew businesses and were hitting the seven figures but were barely making payroll and we're barely kind of getting any of that back to themselves.

And that didn't feel really good or sustaining to us.

We also saw other consultants and other coaches and folks in this space who had like two huge clients that represented 80% of their revenue.

And almost inevitably there would be some situation where one of those clients would need to part ways.

And we saw agencies go under from that.

And so I think part of this I love the like building ambition while kind of self care and managing the life that you want to build.

And I feel like so many entrepreneurs start out with the hopes and the dreams and think about the end goal.

But there's something that's so important about thinking like, well, what do I want the journey to feel like and the process to feel like, because that is so important.

And so with decoded we were able to get to seven figures and still growing.

And it's incredible, but I think we did it.

And we did not make all the right choices for sure along the way.

But I feel so proud actually of those early days and us taking that time to investigate like are we making the choices and building the systems and the principles and the foundations so that this feels sustainable and scalable for us and for our team.

And I really feel proud of that because I've seen it go so many different ways.

And so talk about something I'm obsessed with.

It's thinking about the intention of the business strategy, how you want to really structure your work because it goes all the way down into the weeds of how do you plan your day all the way up to what is it that we want to sell.

And those decisions can make such a difference in sustainability, scalability and what success looks like, for you.

So, anyway, that feels like a whole other conversation we're going to have.

But I loved hearing you talk about what you were hearing and seeing in partner collab day, because I felt that so personally when I was running my agency too.

Yeah.

One of the things as you were talking that came up to me is I tried to remember that if I love my day today and I take care of my day today, I can trust that in 10 years, Teresa will have been doing that for 10 years, and I will be in an okay place.

And when you were talking about, like, it's not just about, like, okay wanting to have, like, a billion dollars down the line or whatever.

It's like, what does it look like and feel like today?

And sometimes people push back and they're like, okay, well, you know, you got a plan for the future?

And I'm like, yeah, well, I'm not going out and, like, blowing my money at a casino today.

That doesn't make me feel good either.

Like, that's not what I'm talking about.

But if I'm cultivating, like, the things I need to do for myself, like drinking water and I have my walking pad set up.

But I've witnessed so many people hit this pivot moment that you've, like, expressed of, like, I have this calling, this other way.

I have a what?

And I always say, like, chase the what if and chase the curiosity.

And so many people don't do that.

It's the fear of the unknown.

This whole podcast was birthed because I watched so many people or so many TV shows have people stay in a 9 to 5 that sucked their soul, and they, like, hate it so much.

I'm watching alone right now.

Have you ever watched Alone?

I have it, honestly, because it maybe freaks me out a little bit, but I also am, like, kind of morbidly curious about it.

So tell me.

Lay it on me, Teresa.

So your, like, Parks and Rec is my survivor, but I've seen all of it, and now I'm, like, watching, like, season 50.

We're, like, three episodes in.

And so I, like, needed something else.

And my partner Nick was like, you'll love Alone.

We finally started it.

And on, I think, season two, there was this guy who was out there, and he was out there.

He almost won.

So he's out there alone in the, like, Canadian wilderness for, like, 60 some days, like, two months.

You see him, like, cuss himself out or, like, cuss nature out so many times.

He's, like, so, like, aggressively.

And then he'll, like, come back and be calm.

But he was like, I've never quit anything in my life.

And he was in a job that he hated.

And I think that's, like, part of what drove him to stay out there so long is he didn't want to go back to his job.

And he wrestled with this conversation of, I could do it when my kids were little and I, like, went to this job to provide for them.

But now that my kids are grown, it's, like, harder to show up to a thing that is, like, soul sucking just, like, for myself.

And he had, like, never quit anything.

And all I could think the whole time I was watching his season is, like, this is why I created the podcast, so that somebody can hear the conversation, that it is okay to not know the answer and go follow it anyway.

And if you're in a 9 to 5, like, starting with a side hustle is totally fine.

You don't have to, like, take the huge leap that everyone always talks about either.

But I just saw that happening so much.

And so, again, like, if today feels terrible and, like, you can't get it to feel better and like, every day before it felt that way, it's like, how can we change it?

Because if you don't, then in 40 years or in 10 years, it'll be the same exact thing.

Totally.

It's like, I feel so strongly about opening up different mental models and mental pathways for people to be able to think about following their passion.

And what I think can be dangerous, and you alluded to this, is there are a lot of content creators and influencers out there whose whole, like, content pillar is, just take the leap.

You can do it.

Very motivational.

And sometimes that rubs me wrong because I'm like, okay, well, sure, but a lot of people still need to pay rent.

They probably have a lot of expenses.

Maybe they have kids.

And an element of instability may not be possible.

I was very privileged to have started my business on the tail of being an executive as a software company.

So I had the means to put a bunch of money into savings knowing I was not going to make any money for a few months.

And not everybody has that capability.

So what I love about what you're saying and what I feel so dang strongly about is I want to motivate people to question any facet of their life that they feel really unhappy about, but then be very realistic and tactical about.

Listen, I could not have just taken a leap without any plans or without any opportunity to start small or side hustle a little bit or save in advance.

And so demystifying what it takes to take that leap.

And all of a sudden you have your first seven figure month or whatever.

Like, it takes work to get there.

And so for me, that's a huge part of.

Again, I just, I love your whole concept of ambition and self care.

And I also think, like, with self care is an area of, like, self some amount of responsibility and what does that actually look like to start a business in a really responsible way?

And so I've been yearning for that type of content and that type of conversation because, yes to the dream big and the like, just take the leap, but also take the leap knowing that you have somewhere to land.

It may not be soft, it might hurt a little bit, you might twist your ankle a little bit, but I don't want you to fall and crack your neck.

So anyway, just.

I love what you're saying because that speaks so much to me.

And what I want for people is, yes, take the leap, but also, yes, understand that there are some tactical ways you can do it responsibly.

And that feel good because we all got to pay the bills.

Yeah, the word responsibility.

I didn't think this podcast would be as intriguing if it was becoming responsible, but it is.

Like, no one else is coming to save you.

No one else is coming to make you happy.

Like, maybe you'll get laid off, and maybe that's right for a lot of people, especially in the tech industry.

What is it like?

I'm going to throw out numbers that I made up that I think I remember, but I know it's been like thousands of people in the last few years, and for some people we've seen that's the best thing that ever happened to them.

But you don't have to wait until something happens to you.

Like, it's up to you.

And I always love when there's like a whole new idea that comes up.

I recorded an episode with somebody last week and they talked about how they never finish a book.

They'll pick up a book and then, like, they'll read two chapters and they're like, I got what I wanted from it.

And they don't see that as a weakness.

They're like, I'm not going to force myself to finish the book or feel like I should have.

I'm always like, don't, like, shed your shoulds.

Don't should yourself.

But even in this, I'm a person who.

I'm like, great, I'm going to quit everything and go live in Europe for three months.

Like, I'm that person.

That's part of what makes me special and unique.

But what I don't do as well is like stay in the nitty gritty, same thing day in.

And so for me, I think I do see who I am as a superpower.

But somebody who's listening right now might be the exact opposite.

Like, you're the person who can stay and like get it done.

And even if it's hard and even if you're sad about it, like, you can stay and do it, but the jumping off the cliff part is the harder part.

And what I want the takeaway to be is that like, good, that is your unique superpower.

And I have to work on staying put a little bit more.

Like that's something I've developed and it's actually been beautiful the last few years.

And so it's again, like, it's not a lesser than.

It's not one way is better.

It's like, yeah, Annie is a person who like heard the calling and knew to follow it.

And you heard her talk about like, it wasn't just an easy like, oh, willy nilly.

Like there was so much growth and just identity shifting in that.

And so that's my new takeaway that is starting to kind of like come full circle again.

But yeah, there's never one right way.

If you're listening and thinking.

Teresa, what exactly is Dubsado?

It's software for creative service businesses.

It's the management tools that you need to streamline operations, create repeatable processes and workflows, and deliver the best client experience.

But as I learned at the Partnership Collaboration Day, the best client experience is always twofold.

How it affects your clients, but also how it works for you.

Which is exactly what Dubsado helped me figure out almost a decade ago when I was a photographer and I first started using it.

If you are ready to give your business the gift of management tools and systems that buy back your time, give it a try with their 21 day free trial or use my code for 30% off your first month or year.

Get all the details at the link in the show notes and let's get back to the episode.

Okay, Annie, I want to talk about one other huge takeaway I had from Partnership Collaboration Day.

AI.

You guys brought this up very specifically.

And my big takeaway, that for Annie.

I don't think you know this.

Anybody watching?

I have an email marketing agency.

So I've written now 101 weeks of AI and data science newsletters, like for the last two years, every single week I know what's happening with AI.

I know how it's affecting small businesses enterprise level.

Like my client is they help implement data science solutions and AI into enterprises.

So I'm very like in the mix and I have, I'm not like really pro AI to be honest.

I'm like, I use it, but I'm like very anti AI being developed about regulation.

So what hinted for me and what like finally kind of came together in this room with these other creative business owners and it was something actually the Dubsado founder Becca said kind of like illustrates this stuff well.

She was over caffeinated that day, I know well.

And she said AI is like having three extra shots of espresso.

But your community is what grounds you, the people you're around is what brings you back and like makes you feel solid.

And that was the experience she was having in that room, room.

But I think that what it really brought out in me is AI is intensifying the feelings of not being enough.

And there's actually, there was a study by MIT and they spent like six months in a tech company that was 200 employees.

And this tech company had really embraced AI.

And it might have been Berkeley actually that did the study, but this study showed that this company truly embraced AI.

They were excited about it.

There was no pressure to hit bigger metrics, none of that, but because with AI you feel like you can do more.

You're actually now just filling the space with more.

And so they said that naturally they started working through lunch breaks, they started working at night.

And other studies show that AI is actually not making us more productive in a lot of skills.

It's like this study also showed it's maybe 3% more productive.

But like the time it takes to correct and finesse and the way that if we rely on it too much, we lose our ability to think well, like all of these play a factor.

And so in that room it was like it really hit me of AI is intensifying the feelings I want to fight.

You should do more, you should build more, you should be better, faster, stronger all the time.

And now it feels like, well, AI is my cheat code.

I can be all of that, but like not really.

And AI, I mean I use it, I'm kind of anti AI, but I still use it and I'm using it to build systems more than anything else.

But it's still like use it to again build a business that's self sustaining, not to pigeonhole yourself to have to be better, stronger, faster, work more, make millions and all of that, and that I felt in that room as well.

Like, half the people in the room really, like, got that.

And some people were still feeling like, I have to optimize more, I have to do more.

And I don't say that to, like, put anybody down, but to show that, like, me too.

Like, we're feeling that, like, even people who are, like, really building successful things and helping other businesses, like, we're feeling that pressure so deeply.

Yeah, it's so true.

I mean, it's funny a little bit, working in a tech company and thinking about the whole concept of how much AI is shifting.

And I think there are a couple of thoughts that immediately come to mind there.

One, what I have seen, and this goes back even to when I was running an agency and I worked with dozens of companies.

So, like, my sample size is pretty big on how people are utilizing all the way from, like, agentic AI and generative AI and applied AI across the board.

The qualities, the skills, and the characteristics of people who are using it in a way that fuels them and doesn't drain them are all about the same as what make us good humans.

So, like, what I see as the people who have found a good balance with leveraging AI in the right way is they've been able to figure out how to apply their, like, good human judgment to how much to trust, what to go to an LLM for the role that the LLM should play.

And I think, like, for me, that is the core skill that I am so focused on myself and I think about, like, within my team and trying to share with others, is how can you apply your own good judgment in those micro and sometimes even subconscious moments of how do I want to utilize the tool, et cetera.

And so what that has looked like for me is thinking about.

I'll tell you what, my AI has not saved me time at all.

It still takes me the same amount of time to do the work.

But when done for me, when I approach it correctly for the way that I work, it's helping me spend that time in a higher part of my brain and in a better way of thinking.

So, you know, in copywriting, I feel like it's the easiest analogy, which is for me, getting out the, like, crappy first draft is always the hardest part.

Like, I just blank page and I gotta get something on the paper and then I can come back to it and think more strategically.

So if I don't have to spend time doing the crappy first draft version, which I know is crappy anyway, like, that Allows me to just spend my time in a higher level of thinking.

So that's me personally.

But figuring out how to harness this tool the same way that you would harness any other tool and not be intimidated on its seemingly endless possibility, endless productivity like that is a skill that I think really and truly is hard as humans for us to.

To cultivate, because it can be it.

It can have a dark side in the way of just like you said, feeling as though we have to produce more, we have to do more, we're not enough.

Also fraying away at that good judgment and that understanding of the way these LLMs work is there's never an end.

You'll notice.

ChatGPT I find even more obnoxious in this than Quad.

But like, every time that I feel like I've gotten to an end of something, it says, would you like me to X, Y and Z?

And so it makes you second guess and question like, oh, crap, is this not the end?

So I think that there's like a piece of that.

And that comes back to again.

What you so brilliantly brought forward, Teresa, is when we are battling with an inanimate object and it makes us question our intelligence, our worth, our value, our humanity, that's where we do need to go back to the human connection.

And I'd love to just touch briefly on what you picked up on in that.

Like, my concept of community as a verb.

So the reason that I feel so strongly about that is like a lot of things in the eras of brand building, marketing, community has become a little bit of a buzzword.

And so a lot of brands now are talking about, oh, we're so about community.

And community's at our core.

And it's lost a little bit of its definition because you kind of have to say, like, okay, well, if you say the word fork a thousand times, it becomes meaningless.

And so what does community actually mean?

And for me, I'm so much more interested in talking about the concept of being in community, which is active, which is a verb, versus a noun of a community, because how do you define that?

And as soon as you define a noun, it can become very passive.

So for me, the idea of what does it mean to be in community with a group of people who have some sort of shared values, principles, shared goals and outcomes that they want to drive for, you can define it in a way that feels so much more active.

So in this world where I think we are having less communication and interactions with other people, and we are having more interactions either with ourselves or with our LLM trying to figure out the new role existentially that we play in life with a literal robot.

It is so critical for us to think about as individuals and as anybody building a brand.

What does it mean for me to be in community with a group of people who are is within that community?

How are we all being active?

Because community can't exist if it's a one sided relationship, has to be reciprocal.

I think a lot of brands really get that wrong in that they think their community equates to their customers.

Well, maybe, and one could argue there is an exchange of goods and services there in exchange for money.

So maybe.

But if you just say, yep, it's our customer base, they're our community, we love you, we care so much about your success, it kind of becomes passive.

And so again, that's for me why I think of community these days as an active verb.

What does it mean to be in community with a group of people?

Because there is no end to that.

And I think that that's even more important than ever because we're all starved for more human interaction.

One of my phrases that has really helped me talk about community differently has been community is inconvenient.

Like it should be inconvenient.

If it's not inconvenient, then it might not actually be community.

But what I've picked up from Instagram lately, there's this new way people are talking about it is that you can't be a tourist and have community.

You have to be a villager.

Like, if you want community, you need to be a villager.

And like, one of the reasons I'm in Omaha, Nebraska, I'm from here, but I didn't think I'd stay here.

And one of the reasons I've stayed here is because I have like two really true villages, like communities where people are villagers.

One of them is called One Million Cups.

It's like a business startup like Hangout every Wednesday morning.

And like there is a group of people who organize it, but you see the same people, we tweet new people come and go.

And so it's not like networking as much as like, you can show up to a place and see people you know, and you don't have to coordinate with those people.

Everyone can show up together.

And it doesn't have to be the whole like, hey, like, we need to catch up, can we meet for coffee?

Like all of this planning and scheduling.

And then the second one is something called Tuesday night dinner where these two beautiful women started hosting dinners in their homes every Tuesday night.

And now one of them, like has traveled to Europe a ton.

The other one is living in Australia and like eight other people have opened their homes and just rotate.

And every Tuesday you know that there is going to be dinner.

You can bring something, you can show up empty handed and you don't have to again, you don't have to like plan.

It's like there's a group chat.

It's like, here's the details.

One person a week is planning it.

But it is, it's like, how can you be villagers instead of tourists?

And I think that that has also, again, like, illuminated my perspective and language around community.

So again, we talked about this a little bit, but just before we head into our last series of questions, Annie, earlier you mentioned, I like wrote this down and you said like it was the next thing that you could have an impact on the world, like you could learn and there was something you could have an impact.

And I'm curious how like your role at Dubsado and like being in this company that's so community focused but it's still software, how are you getting to like kind of drive impact in the world through that?

So I believe very firmly in people's ability to do what they put their mind to.

And as we talked about a little bit earlier, sometimes it's always not clear how to turn a passion into a career or how to start shifting away from a 9 to 5 that maybe doesn't feel like it serves you.

And so I think historically Dubsado as a brand has been really focused on what happens when you do make that leap and you do start the business and then you need a second system.

And what really intrigues and inspires me is kind of this new era that we're shifting into at Dubsado, which is the more people follow their passion and become business owners or create side hustles, then the more people eventually will need the systems to utilize the software, which is amazing.

But by really thinking about how to create more small business owners in the world, like that feels like there is no end to the value that that can deliver and the impact that that can make on people's lives.

We started doing things like small business grants.

So last year we ran a grant program for people who had just started their own business.

Within the last six months.

They got their business license, like they got their federal number and then they were out to the races.

And we're figuring it out.

And so that feels like this arena of the entire entrepreneurial journey that we're really thinking about and focusing on because we know in the end, if we can help more people become business owners, then more people will use Dubsado.

But this focus that we have the privilege to be able to think about as a software company and as a brand because we're not beholden to stakeholders or share owners, we are self funded, we are self profitable.

Like we have a unique opportunity that's very different from a lot of our competitors to think about how can we be truly of service to this community?

And we know that that will of course help us as a business.

And so to me, there is no greater impact that I could think of than having run a small, creative business myself.

Having the privilege of doing that with a partner, a great friend whom I loved, and knowing that not every entrepreneur has that.

And so how can we be as a proxy, that supportive system to help you turn that passion into profit, help you take that leap?

Start with a really tactical perspective.

And so I know the impact that made on me and my life when I was in a moment that I needed to make a change and that I was called to make a change.

And I think there are so many stories that we see just absolutely every day about being able to run one's own business, if that is your calling, and having the systems and the support and play to do that.

So it's just, I think in this era where there are a lot of job losses that are happening across different industries, where there are a lot of people that are questioning their role in a more corporate era, how can we be a resource to those people and literally change lives and the scales up ten thousands?

It's just.

It's really meaningful.

Well, I have to say that I appreciate, Annie, you, everything that you're doing, Dubsado, what they've done for me and my business, but also as somebody who wants more people to have the freedom to live a life they love.

And a lot of times I think that's having your own business, even if it's a side hustle or it's supporting your income, having that financial stability just open so many doors.

And that's so much about like what this podcast is about is encouraging people to take that lead.

So I'm very honored to be a Dubsado ambassador and get to share the systems with my audience and share how I set things up.

And now actually to be connected with Dubsado specialists so that I don't have to act like I am a specialist and I can just scream that I love it and don't have to teach Everyone how to do it.

So I appreciate you so much and everything that you were doing.

And.

And I have a final few questions for you.

Amazing.

Becoming obsessed is huge on play reps. Just slowing down, getting creative.

What do you do that really outside of work recharges you, helps you to rest, play, get creative.

So I struggled for a long time with the concept of self care because I was like, I don't know, is getting one massage a year like self care?

Like, what does it even mean?

I don't know.

I just.

It would spin me out.

And so I have really been on a journey as a oldest child, type A, highly ambitious, lots of energy, human being.

Self care has been challenging.

So I've, like, tried a whole bunch of things, and I feel so good about where I've landed with that.

So as I was thinking about what am I obsessed with recently, there are a couple of things that I have found that I just absolutely love.

So go on this journey with me.

One of them, I've recently started to do IV infusions for hydration and for vitamin benefits.

Are you in on this train, Teresa?

Well, I. I don't go as much as I should, but if I am, like, dehydrated at all, I go.

And like, when I've been sick, it saves my life.

Same.

I got one and I immediately signed up for a membership because I was like, I have never felt this good in my life.

I have always struggled with vitamin balance and, you know, different things.

And so I got my blood work done recently, and my doctor was like, everything is perfect, except, Annie, your B12 is way too high.

It's like, I've never a B12 in my life.

That's crazy.

So I really love that.

It makes me feel good.

It gives me energy when I need energy.

It helps my body rest when I need rest.

And so, you know, again, that is a privilege that I have the opportunity to do that.

But I'm very, very into IV infusions.

And then the other thing that I have loved is I recently bought myself an infrared, a far infrared sauna, blankets that I can use at home.

So there used to be this business here in Los Angeles called Shape House, which effectively, it was.

There could not have been a more LA thing.

But you would go, and it was.

It's this beautiful boutique.

You get taken into your own little private room and you would tuck yourself into basically a sleeping bag that was like a sauna sleeping bag, and you would sweat for an hour.

And so it's like creating the experience of like, a Sauna, like a sweat lodge.

But they would come and they would like bring you lavender scented towels and like dab the sweat and they would bring you more lemon water and you would watch Netflix.

It was.

There's a whole thing.

And I used to do that three times a week.

And that was the best that my body had ever felt, the detoxifying and the sweat.

And unfortunately it closed down during the COVID pandemic.

And so I found a place that sells the.

Basically the little sleeping bags that have the infrared.

And I've started doing that at home.

And so both the IV infusions and my infrared sauna blanket have been for me, the things that literally force me.

You're tucked in, like, you're literally tucked in like a fauna, like a little blanket, like in a blankie burrito.

And so I can't be on my phone, I can't be in anything.

I can put something on TV that I'm binging and whatever I want to be watching at that moment.

But I found those two things to be really interesting and helpful and have made me feel really good from a self care perspective.

So those are two things that I am officially obsessed with with.

Oh my gosh, I might need to look into that.

My birthday is coming up and so I'd been like, I want one of those little like red light infrared masks.

But maybe I'm gonna switch that and be like, we need this full sleeping bag.

Like, I need a kit.

I need a full kit.

It's kind of incredible.

And I will happily send you a link.

But yeah, those have been really, really fun for me recently.

I need that link.

Okay, one last question.

When it comes to either entertainment or, or learn shows, books, podcasts, where do you go?

What are you listening to?

What are you reading?

What are you entertained by?

I am a big reader and you can absolutely slot me right into the archetype of the millennial women right now who are reading Romantasy.

That is it for me.

And I've been on a whole ranty kick recently on like, why are we getting so much crap for, like the smutty Romantasy books?

Where I'm like, yeah, that's a teeny part of it.

But the women in these stories are so freaking powerful and strong and I'm like, that's why I'm reading it.

So all of that is like square in my space.

I read a ton.

And so when I have like extra time for entertainment, it's very likely that I am reading.

So the current series that I'm on right now is called Zodiac Academy of which there are a lot of different books and many different spinoffs.

So I think it's like like 20 books in total that I'm like on this whole saga to get to.

But that's where I go because I find it makes my brain recharge.

It gives me some quiet and some like non stimulus time, which is really nice.

And so I read that's my best recharge entertainment.

I just love it.

I love that I might have to look into that.

I'm like the type of person if I start a book, I have to finish it.

Like I'd have to get to the end of whatever is going on.

And so entering a like 20 plus book series, I need to like be on House like arrest to be.

Yeah, intense one.

There are other series that I would highly recommend that can maybe be a starting point for you.

But yeah, I'm like for me, if I'm going to read a series, I relish them to be as long as possible.

Because once I end a series and I have to start a whole new world character arc, it's like almost a depression.

Like I go into a pretty deep hole.

So for me I'm like, oh, 20, I'm going to be in this for a year.

This is amazing.

But yeah, I do sure love to read.

It's literally a breakup.

I'm like, where are my friends?

Like, yeah, I have to go watch their lives again.

Like I want to know what they're up to now.

Totally, totally.

Well, Annie, where can somebody get a hold of you?

Get in touch, hang out.

Yes.

So best place, LinkedIn, Instagram.

My full name, Annie Mossbacher is my Instagram handle.

You can find me there and then of course through Dubsado.

So I'm doing a lot of content with Dubsado and of course we're sharing a ton of resources there.

So follow us on Instagram.

Check us out dubsado.com Teresa is an incredible ambassador.

So if you hit her up, she will give you a discount code to be able to get with a lots of tasty discounts available there.

But this was just such a pleasure, Theresa to be here with you.

This is a cool conversation.

I appreciate you so much.

We talked about how long podcast episodes go before we started hitting record.

And as I was saying it, I was like, I already have a feeling we're gonna go over that.

There's no way we are only gonna talk for 30 minutes.

No, no, not at all.

I appreciate you so much.

I'm so excited to listen back and just, like, jot even more notes as I was doing this whole episode.

So thank you for sharing your wisdom, your brilliance, and your joy with becoming Obsessed.

And for everyone who's still hanging out with us, go find Annie on Instagram, hit me up, send me a DM on Eresaagne or Ecoming Obsessed Pod, and let me know what resonated with you.

Let me know how you're becoming a villager in your own community or how you need help with systems, because now I have the address book, the contacts, I can connect you with the expert.

And of course, hit five stars, rate, review, and send this to a friend who is craving a little bit more joy and energy so that they can live a life they love as well.

All right, y', all, let's go get obsessed.

You're still listening, which means this episode connected with you, and I want to know how.

Send me a DM on Instagram Becoming Obsessed Pod.

Then send this episode to a friend.

If you know someone who is building a life that they love or they're feeling a little stuck and might just need a nudge, send this to them.

Then rate and review, because it also helps us get the word out.

And as you know, we're on a mission for more people to live a life they truly love.

All right, let's go get obsessed.