The HeavenEarth Church Podcast Exists to Amplify The Conversation Happening at HeavenEarth Church.

This conversation centers around the vision to be a church that make a lasting impact in our community by building relationships with all kinds of folks, helping people know and live like Jesus together.

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Takeaways:

1. Heaven Earth Church aims to serve individuals who do not conform to traditional church expectations, embracing their unique stories.
2. The podcast serves as a platform to share the narratives of the Heaven Earth Church community members, fostering connection and understanding.
3. In the pursuit of faith, the importance of community and relationships is emphasized, as they are integral to spiritual growth and healing.
4. Jenn Rice's journey illustrates that personal healing and understanding of faith are facilitated through supportive church environments and genuine relationships.
5. The church endeavors to create a welcoming atmosphere where individuals can explore their faith without the pressure of judgment or conformity.
6. Engagement in small groups and church activities facilitates deeper connections, allowing members to share experiences and support one another in their spiritual journeys.

What would it look like to start a community that was really, it's for the people like Jesus would be for. Welcome to Heaven Earth Church. I'm Ross Stackhouse, the founding pastor of Heaven Earth Church.

From the start, our heart has been to be a church for people who don't fit neatly into church. We want to meet people where they are and know their stories. Because in every story, there is God's story.

And this podcast, podcast is just about that. It's about inviting you into the stories of the people of Heaven Earth Church. So let's turn to the story.

Hello, good people, and welcome to the Heaven Earth Church podcast. This is the church we look to make a lasting impact in our community. I am the one of the producers of the podcast. My name is Brad Miller.

And one of the joys we have here at Heaven Earth Church is to connect up with people in our community.

People who attend are part of the church and they use this podcast as a tool to try to reach out and extend the good news about people in our community to others who may be kind of checking us out and see what Heaven Earth Church is all about.

And so it's really a privilege today that we have Jen Rice with us today here on the Heaven Earth Church podcast to learn more about her and about her connections, about her life, what's going on with her and about her connections here to Heaven Earth Church. Jen, welcome to our conversation.

Morning.

Yeah. Great to have you with us. Hey, Jen. And Jen is short for what?

Jennifer.

For Jennifer and Jennifer Rice or Jen Rice. And she as everybody around here knows her as Jen. And so glad we've been with. With the church here for several months.

Five months.

Five months, six months, something like that.

And getting involved right away, some of those small groups and some of the regular tender and worship and some of the other things that we have going on around here. But it's a good opportunity for us to get to know a little bit more about. About you. So let's just start with hometown. Where are you from?

A little bit about that for you.

Yeah. I am proud to say my hometown is Union City, Indiana, on the Indiana and Ohio border. Half the towns on one side, half towns on the other. Super.

Oh, yeah. That's literally one of those towns where the border of the state goes right through it. There's two or three towns like that. I know.

Yeah. Time change is fun.

Yeah. You ever heard the town over there, that part of the world called College Corner?

Yes.

Yeah.

Yes.

It's a similar thing there.

Okay.

Yeah. Where they in that town. I'm sorry to interrupt. In that town. The funny thing about that town, I found out is that the.

They built the high school literally on the border of Indiana and Ohio. And the center court line of the basketball court of the old high school is the state line. So there you go. But I'm sorry. I'm sorry.

You're from Union City, Indiana. Tell me something about cool about growing up in Union City.

It's a wonderful town to grow up in. Small town. We had maybe 79 in my graduating class. So, you know, you could be an important person if you wanted to be. Safe town, you could.

We rode our bikes everywhere, you know, uptown to the pool, played all night long. Great time.

Yeah. Neighbors and sound like you were involved with things, as you said, what you wanted to be involved with.

What were some of the things you were involved with with your family or the school growing up?

Yeah, lots of stuff in the school. Always in the convocations and the plays. And I had a job when I was 16 at a drugstore a lot of times in student council, particularly in the choir.

Just stuff like that, all that kind of thing. Do you have mom, dad, brother, sister?

Is this mom, dad, one sister?

Yeah.

Good family. Yeah.

Awesome, awesome. So from Union City, where did life take you from there?

I went to Ball State.

Okay.

I have a degree in special ed, teaching the deaf. But when I graduated, I decided that the teaching aspect wasn't what I really wanted to do.

I was more interested in maybe helping parents with a newly discovered deaf child, something like that. But I took what I thought was a temporary job for an insurance company in downtown Indy and ended up staying there four years.

And then I had my children and I was basically an at home mom for the most part. My husband I knew in school, we started dating my junior year in high school. We dated all through college, which is difficult.

I was at Ball State, he was at Rose Hulman in Terre Haute. So we had to get through that. Finally got to marry him.

And we've lived in the Indianapolis area for a number of years in Brown county for about 27 or 8.

And your husband's name and how long you been married?

His name is Dave Rice. Been married, let's see. Been together 50 years between dating and married. Married about 46.

Wow.

Long time.

Good for you. Yeah, that's awesome in and of itself, so. Well, that's wonderful. And you've got some children.

Yeah, we have two children. My son Evan is 41. My daughter's 39. She lives with us. Us My son lives in Indianapolis also with his wife, who's a hairdresser.

Okay.

They have two children of their own adopted daughter, guardianship of another teen, and their grandmother lives with them. So he's a busy guy.

All right. I guess. So you've done the marriage aspect. You've had a bit of a career. Not a bit.

You've had a significant career and you've had life with you, raising your children and grandchildren now. So you've got some things going on with your family.

And then you've lived in Indianapolis area for most of the last 40 something years, is that what you said? Yeah. And then. And then some years ago, you landed in Brown county, right?

Yeah, yeah, we've been. We were there for seven years. Moved back to Indy area for another seven, and then we've been here since.

Yeah. So you've been living in Brown county for. Wow. And so. And so that's just. Just better context.

It's 25 plus miles from where we go to church here or something like that. I don't know.

It takes me 37 minutes. I don't know what the message is.

Okay. But I mean, it's not a. It's not a hop, skip and a jump. It's. It's, you know, it's a little drive.

Close as anything.

Yeah. There you go.

Everything's 45 minutes.

So it's close and so. But tell me something cool about living in the rural area of Brown County.

We love where we live. We've been a church right before. This one was an hour away, but we just never felt to move because we love it there so much.

We live on 17 wooded acres, have a pond. My husband is a reloader and target shooter.

So he's got a range on the property and he can reload something, test it out on the porch, come back in and adjust things. And it's just a nice place to live. It's very peaceful.

Yeah. So not many neighbors around. You're kind of in your own place.

Lane of seven houses.

Okay. That's it. All right, well, good. Sound like you've got what many might say kind of the idyllic rural life. So. And then that's good.

But tell me a little bit about your. Your faith life or church life. Both growing up and in. More in an adult life.

Yeah.

Kind of start growing up. Did you grow up in church?

I did not grow up in church.

Okay.

My husband did. We didn't as a married couple, didn't go to church until our son was about a year old.

And we thought that was probably the responsible thing to do as parents is children in church. So we started going to a Methodist church. Ralph and Lucy Hill. Ralph was the pastor of that church at the time.

So we went there sometime later, joined another church, a very small body, small enough that they really didn't have a pastor. So my husband and another man kind of co pastored the church through this time. Unfortunately, there was a leader in that church, a narcissistic man.

We.

Anyway, it didn't go well. It didn't end well.

So there was some sort of a conflict in the church. Yeah.

Not God's fallen, anyway. And then the last 10 years, we've been at a church in Columbus. And I had no issue with that church. Still like the people, like the church.

But Lucy, we kind of reconnected, had lost touch a little bit. Reconnected. And she said, well, you know, until I go to Florida, you know, would you like to come to church with me for a few weeks?

So we just kind of spend some time together. And so I came here, but not expecting. Really not searching for another church, but not expecting to love it, which I did.

Yeah.

And.

Well, let's go back to some of that initial experience there. So you didn't grow up at church. You got involved with church.

It sounds like you were pretty involved with church, including navigating a traumatic experience. And unfortunately, that's not an uncommon experience for people to have traumatic church experiences.

And then Lucy Hill invited you to check out Heaven Earth Church. And so tell me a little bit about some first impressions and about some initial reactions when you came to Heaven Earth Church.

I assumed you came with Lucy.

I did, I did. My first impression was that it was much smaller. The church I'd been attending had maybe 500 people in it, which I never could get comfortable with.

The. The small group was really appealing to me. The more casual nature of it. I loved Ross's sermons.

Was really connecting with the idea of the love God, love people. The emphasis on that. The emphasis on community, which is something had just really been stirring in my heart just right before I came.

And so the talk of community and knowing what he was doing with the community and what the church was doing and just the sense of community within the church and on the outside was a real draw for me. And that was both a blessing and a difficulty because my husband's still involved with our. The church I just left.

Okay.

And so that's not ideal for us right now, but that's where we are.

Sound like you're Kind of navigating that or making it work in one way or another. Yeah. So it's a little bit what got you attracted here and a little bit some of the points that were interesting to you. What keeps you here?

The. Oh, gosh, just the continued community and the love and the. I guess the biggest draw for me is rebuilding, reconstructing who Jesus is and his heart.

That I see emphasized a lot here, and his love and his heart behind all of the teachings. I tend to be a rule follower and want to know the rules where here I'm learning more of the heart and the heart behind.

Interesting. You used a couple really interesting terminologies and phrases there. I think I want to unpack with you a little bit, Jen.

Talk about rebuilding, reconstruction, reframing.

So that kind of indicates that there was kind of some set of understandings about Jesus and about your life of faith that you have been in the process of maybe tearing down. Not tearing down in the sense of destroying, but tearing down to reconstruct it. Is that a fair way of putting it?

So tell me a little bit about that experience of. For you in terms of how you have come to understand your relationship with Jesus, your faith life, the Holy Spirit, things of that nature.

Because I've got to know you as a person who really goes deep in these areas. What are you learning about yourself or about your life of faith in this reconstruction phase?

The traumatic church. I hate to say the traumatic church. It wasn't the church. The experiences.

You had a traumatic experience there, Sally. Yeah.

Yes. That constant sense of, you're not good enough, you're not doing well enough, you're not enough.

It took me a long time to tear that down and rebuild who Jesus says I am. And so I had to study that a lot. And coming here, just that constant emphasis of, you are enough.

God loves you where you are and will help you through the rest. That's been a real piece to my soul.

So you felt pretty affirmed in that.

So you kind of had relatively legalistic approach to understanding your faith in life and how, you know, I've got to adhere to certain standards or certain laws or certain judgments, this type of thing.

And it sounds to me you're learning more about relationships, relationship building, and how it's a complicated, sometimes messy thing to do, and also about the primacy of grace. Is that a fair understanding of some of the journey you're going through?

It is. And I would also say that I'm learning also that.

I couldn't for a while understand that culture changes enough through the years that some of the things that were commands at the time have evolved and aren't the same. The concept is the same, but culturally, some of those things, that some of the reasons that those existed, we don't have it here.

And so I've had to kind of relearn some of those.

Yeah.

So context matters, both biblically societal in our society and with everything else, technology, any, you know, our lives, our relationships, all that kind of matters. And yet I sense in you, Jen, that the Holy Spirit's doing a real work in you.

And you've seen some manifestations of the Holy Spirit doing some work in you, in your life, in your relationship, your family, things of this nature. Would you say that's fair, for one thing? And if so, how is the Holy Spirit? How has this manifestation, how's this been come to fruition?

Are there any stories that you can tell about that?

Well, not coming from a Christian background, as a child, I am. I'm learning. I'm especially.

I'm sorry we get a little lost here on my some thoughts, but I'm especially learning lately who Jesus, not only who he was and his miraculous life and his divinity, but his humanity also.

To address something you asked, my daughter had been ill for about seven years with something called porphyria, which is a blood disorder, but it causes lots of other crashes in your body. And we had a lot of doctors and a lot of unanswered questions and lots of prayers.

But we had an evangelist at our church one day, and he also prayed for her. And like I said, there had been lots of prayer for her. But this particular prayer I knew hit home.

And I don't even understand, just the Holy Spirit hit something in me, and I knew that one hit home. And just within a couple of months, we were seeing all kinds of changes in her.

She had been very ill, housebound, certainly bed bound, often had to be homeschooled, that sort of thing. So it was really bad. She just felt bad all the time.

But anyway, within just a few weeks, couple of months, we were just seeing changes after change after change. Some of the illnesses that she had

been diagnosed and the changes to the better.

Oh, yes.

Yeah, okay.

The illnesses that she had been diagnosed with were retested and came back negative this time. And pretty soon she had two jobs. She had graduated school, taking, you know, pottery class, and just. It was just an amazing thing to witness.

So you can't convince me ever that God's not a healer.

Yeah, I like to call those yay, God moments. And when we just. There's something we don't quite understand.

There's a mystery involved with this because one of the things, you know, we learned about the life of faith and life of prayer and things like that, we have these great moments. We also have some moments, like you mentioned, about the church going through trauma.

We have other moments when we kind of don't get it, you know, when things go south. And we don't get that either.

So it sounds like you've been a person who's faced your share of things in life and you're finding some way, both good and bad, and you're finding some ways to navigate that. And part of your experience here at Heaven Earth Church is part of the process of helping you do that. Is that a fair thing to say?

Yes. And I'm back in studying even more than I had been back in a consistent Bible study. Joining the first, the Monday class and now the Tuesday class.

Getting to know people.

Yeah. Well, tell me how that's going for you. We're part of a class together. And I know you're a very astute student of what is happening.

But tell me about that in terms of what is valuable to you about the small group experiences that we have here at Heaven or Church.

I started with the Monday group because that's where what Lucy was with. So I met with her group, got to know those folks. I call them friends now.

We were studying the Beatitudes and discovered too the Bible project and learning some really deep things about the Sermon on the Mount. I decided at the kind of the. At the break that we took, that the church took to join the Tuesday group then so I would get to know them as well.

Just a different group of people. And I'm doing the homework. I'm taking notes on the class because I don't want to lose the value of the class.

And so I'm taking good notes, and that's just the way I do.

And you're much better student than I am in terms of taking notes. I'll give you that. Give you. I'd certainly give you accolades that way.

But it seems like you've also used this as a means to develop a deeper relationship with other people.

Yeah, I made it a point to do that. That's one thing I wanted to be sure to do when I came is because I left all my friends.

Yeah.

And so I wanted to make new friends.

And part of what I wanted to reflect with you about that, that just shows some initiative on your part. You're not just waiting for things to come to you. You know, it's one thing to be, you know, fed.

It's also another thing to be feeding ourselves through the process of serving others, getting to know others, things of that nature.

And so that's one of the things I want to talk to you about for a minute, Jen, in terms of how the nature of heaven or church, at least the intent is to ours will be a place of nurture, to be a place where people can grow interpersonally in friendships as well as spiritually and intellectually and their biblical knowledge and things like that. So one of the things that is even said about heaven or church is that this is if you don't fit in church, you fit in here.

It's one of the models, is one of the mottos that's set here from time to time out of your experience. Do you think that's true? And if so, how so?

Well, it goes against my introvert nature to put myself out there to make friends. But since I've come, like I said, I made it a point to do that. So people have been very welcoming to me.

And so I'm learning, learning names, trying to get to know people, taking the classes. It's been. It's been good.

Yeah, good. But you've also been taking the foundational classes.

You know, kind of, you're involved with the small groups, which is interpersonal, with the foundational classes, which has to do with kind of understanding the doctrines of the church and things of that nature.

And I did listen to a lot of the sermons. I listened to the podcasts that we're doing today to get to know the nature of the kind of people who are here.

And I feel like I just fit right in because. Because of my trauma, I know there are a lot of folks in the church had some similar experiences.

I went through about four years of pretty significant depression before I could find some medications that worked for me. And so, you know, I'm very free to talk about. About that or to help people who've been through that also.

And I've seen you just observing you, seen you seeking to be not just relational, but helpful in your relationships with people. Yeah. And so it's not just, hi, how are you? It's, you know, really, hi, how are you? And I'm here for you at that type of thing.

At the two churches ago, that didn't go well. One of my gifts is the gift of the gifts of helps.

Yes.

And that was always devalued there. So since I've been here, I Feel that resurging, that growing back.

So you took some sort of a spiritual gifts inventory type of thing or some way to discern your spiritual gifts. Well, that is awesome to know in terms of the life of the church. There's some ways that we do worship here at Heaven Earth Church.

It's a very conversational style of worship. People interact with the Pastor Ross, in many different ways. And for some people, that's just quite different than your experience of church.

Tell me what your observation of it is. Do you think, does it work for you? And kind of. How did you react to it when you first.

It's similar to two churches ago. My most recent church of 10 years isn't like that at all. Because it's so large. You just can't do that. The format doesn't work for that.

And so I've missed that. I've missed testimonies or people learning other people's thoughts on things. So I really like that. That was one of the draws for me.

Really like that very much.

Good, good, good, good. The mission, the statement of Heaver Church Estates, and it's on banners.

We have a website and other places that we exist to make a lasting impact in our community. Just in your observation, the several months that you've been around, is that a true statement? And if so, how have you experienced that?

It's true, from what I've read and from what I've seen personally, I can't participate in a lot of the outreaching things at the moment because I'm a little careful about how much time I'm spending away from my husband.

Sure, of course.

You know, like I said that with that being different churches at the moment, I'm a little cautious about that. But that's something ultimately, what I would like to do.

I would like to see both of us here and living closer because community, it's stirring so strongly in my heart, but I can't seem to manifest it where I live. I'm from a small town. I would much rather. I'm much more comfortable in a small town.

I'd like to get back to a small town where I can know the people in my area. I really don't know people in Brown County.

Okay.

And so that's something I would like to see, but something I see emphasized here a lot.

Yeah. So the community aspect, both serving the community, but also community in terms of developing relationships, are important to you. And there's.

It just sounds like there's a little bit of transitions going on, learning, growing, you know, that type of thing going on with you. Very good, very good.

Well, you mentioned that you don't have a lot of relationships in the community where you live, but I've seen you developing acute relationships here and I know that you've, you've family and so on that you live with. But I want to put this kind of a scenario in your mind.

Let's just say that you have somebody in your life, Jen, who has confided in you about something going on their life. This may have been a co worker, former co worker, friend, family, neighbor, whatever. They've got something distressing, it could be whatever.

It could be spiritual, it could be marital, it could be financial, it could be job related, any number of things. But they've confided in you and trust you in that.

Do you think you would be comfortable enough with them to say, you know, like to invite you to have our church as a part of your process? I'm going to be helpful to you, but it's a part of your process of helping you to navigate what's going on in your life. Would that be a part of.

Would you be to play out this scenario with me? Do you think that would work for you?

Yeah. This is the first church I would have answered yes to that.

The churches I've attended in the last 30 years have been more Pentecostal and exuberant in their worship services which not everyone, that's not everyone's taste. So I haven't always felt real comfortable inviting people to church. But I would very much hear, in fact, I have invited people here.

Yeah, good. Well, that's the greatest affirmation of what the question I asked there, if you've actually done it.

So then just to kind of bring us around here and first of all, I just want to thank you for being part of our conversation. It's been a joy to get to know you and you know, in our small group and things that we're involved with. But I'd like you to kind of speak to.

You're a person who has really used the tools that heaven or church has to offer in terms of worship. The small groups, the groups that have to do with the disciplines of the church or with the doctrine of the church.

So you're taking every avenue to learn everything you can. You're being very assertive about it and very affirming about it.

And you know, you're a sponge soaking things up but also sharing them with others in your way. I know you take notes of sermons. I see you take notes with small group.

You're a part of, you've got, you know, take notes, even the podcast episodes we've done and that kind of thing.

But I want you to speak right now for Jen for a sec for the first, who's kind of like Jen, who is a real researcher, a real person who says, I'm going to do my homework about this church, about the people here, about what they're about. So I'd like to like you to speak to anyone who may be checking out this podcast about they're doing their research.

What would you share with that person but why they might want to check out Evner Church?

Well, that's easy because that's exactly what I did. Lucy.

Well, we used to meet for coffee every week and she would tell me about the church and I was getting interested and I was wanting to come and visit with her at the church.

So I started listening to several of the sermons online and then I listened to a lot of the sermons online and then I started listening to the podcasts like we're doing here and getting to know people so that when I did come, I knew what to expect and I knew some faces right off the bat and I could meet someone and say, I got to listen to your podcast and I know a little bit about you and hoping to get to know you better. So yeah, that was a good way to go. And then the small groups, you can't meet someone, can't know someone well in five minutes before church.

So it's been nice having those small groups. I really, really like that.

I think churches are, churches that work well, are healthy, basically have two types of groups. They have large groups, which is worship, things like that, and smaller groups which is, you know, either small group Bible studies or social groups.

You know, the people who do some of the service projects, any number of things. And you have availed yourself to both of those.

And I think I'm also hearing you say, given some of the things you've shared about your past experiences, that if someone's going to check out heaven or earth Church, it's a safe place, kind of a non judgmental place where they would have the opportunity to check it on their own pace. Is it a fair thing? Anything else you want to share about that?

I would like to say also about the non judgmental. I've been judged, so I appreciate so.

So you felt a little bit of that kind of that, you know, pressure, that squeamishness that comes when you feel judged and you're not feeling that here. So any final words you want to share with, with the folks maybe listening to this before we say goodbye.

Well, come and try it. Come and try it. You've got lots of opportunity to check it out ahead of time if you're not comfortable being in the building.

But yeah, come for the service. It's, it's just a lot of fun.

I love that. I love what you said there, Jen, about come and try it. Come and see.

Basically that's what Jesus said, you know, come check it out, come see what it's all about and then come, come follow me. So I just want to say again what a joy it has been to get to know you here on the, on the podcast and in small groups.

We are part of and in the life of the church and also you've just brightened up my day and I see how you just brighten people up when you're around them and that's a joy. Her name is Jen Rice.

She's one of the incredible people that you can get to know here at Heaven Earth Church and we hope that you'll give a church that has a mission to exist to make a lasting impact to people a try. We are located on our main campus located on Main street in Weyland, Indiana.

Our our main Service is at 9:30 Eastern Time on on both online and in person and you can always check us out online here at the Heaven Earth Church podcast. I'm the producer of the podcast and speaking for our pastor, Ross Stackhouse. Thank you for joining us here on the Heaven Earth Church podcast.

We want to thank you for spending time with us today.

My name is Ross Stackhouse, the pastor to Heaven Earth Church and you may think out there that your story is over, but in fact your faith story may just be beginning.

If you want more information about our church or you're interested in the next step, you can go to heavenorthchurch.org otherwise we look forward to being with you next time at the Heaven Earth Church Podcast.