Want to hear what it’s like to work in a family business? 

This week, we pull back the curtain and talk about the topics most people are curious about when they hear we’re a mother-daughter team: 

• How we started working together 
• Ways we keep business and home life separate 
• How we’ve made our team dynamic work so we avoid drama and fighting 
• Lessons we’ve learned from each other that have made both of us better entrepreneurs 

And even if you have no desire to bring your family into your business, you’ll still get a lot out of this episode if you have or want to have a team! 

Head over to iwannacollaborate.com and let us know what you took away from this conversation.

Music credit: The Funkster by Sweet Spot

A Podcast Launch Bestie production

Hello and welcome back to the Eavesdrop on US Podcast.

I am Jessica.

And I'm Susan.

And we're excited to dig into a topic that is near and dear to us today.

It is all about the fact that we are in business as a mother and

daughter, and over the years, I have always said to people it.

Gets one of two reactions.

The first one is, Aw, you know, other mothers are, usually in

a space of, oh, I would love to be in business with my daughter.

they come from a place of, admiration and longing for something like that.

And on the other side of the spectrum, I get the, oh, you're

in business with your mom.

What is that like?

So, I don't usually get a neutral response to that.

And so as we were thinking about what do we wanna talk about as we get this podcast

started, it's such an obvious one for us to dig into the fact that we're a mother

daughter dynamic, we are a family-owned business and we operate as a team.

So I, I guess let's, let's kick it off from there, Susan.

Yeah.

Let's get to it.

I think in this instance, I love the binary reactions there.

And they're strong too, aren't they?

They're, they tend to be, Oh, dripping with love and motherly love and envy and

sugar and spice and all that yummy stuff.

Right.

or, my favorite is E you work with your mom, or e you work with your daughter.

you get the same thing, you get the same response.

Oh, for sure.

Absolutely.

Jess.

Yeah.

So just as we were, planning this, you know, it's, it's fun to see

where we wanna take the conversation.

So you were like, I wanna talk about the origin story of this dynamic.

So Susan, I'm just gonna let you dig into that real quick.

Well, you know, we all have an origin story, right?

Okay, so we're gonna talk about the camp that wants to have that experience.

What would, I would love to work with my daughter.

And when I speak with those individuals, it's usually, yeah.

Yeah.

You know, I, I had an opportunity to see her in teaching and, I

also recognized a need for small business clients to learn how to.

Teach what their problem solving solutions are.

Right?

And, as the story goes, I convinced Joel rallied my daughter's attention

to come along into the business.

You too will expand and grow like I have.

Both personally and professionally will make a dream of this.

And look at the earning potential, you know.

Because number one, whenever we're talking about small business, right?

We always talk to those folks that are gainfully employed.

Ooh, you're capped.

When you own you, you have limitless, opportunities to earn and capitalize on

what it is that you bring to the market.

Well, That's my story.

So when I talk about Jessica joining this business, and mind you, you know, she

came in as a family member, number one.

So, you know, there's always a little, more intention and ownership

behavior for a family member too.

I had always envisioned being full partners with Jessica at some

point, and gratefully and happily.

we did realize that, sooner rather than later.

But my origin story is I had the wisdom to encourage her, you know what, TJ's

great, honorable, awesome, but come here and play with me in my sandbox.

And that's not how I remember it at

all.

that's the funny part cuz people are like, how did you get into that?

And I think I would tell people for the longest time, like I

just kind of stumbled into it.

I just organically found this opportunity because at the time, This is back in 2016.

Yeah, I was leaving teaching and I was, uh, you know, just playing around with a

different, a few different opportunities.

And I think it was when a few of those didn't exactly pan out.

I don't even remember what they were, to be honest.

but that's when I said, oh, I'll just give this a shot.

Let's just see what happens.

And so it is very funny, and it wasn't until you pointed it out,

you're like, That's not what happened.

Like, don't you remember all those times that I was like, Hey, have you given

this a thought or would you would be interested in, in trying out this thing?

And I probably was wrapped up in, you know, finishing up my school year.

Like I was probably just mentally not it was not clicking with me.

And then When you mentioned it that way and you were like, that's

how it happened, this, don't you remember all those conversations?

I was like, oh yeah, like, I guess you're right.

that was the point, right?

Is that even though we shared conversations and I had as always,

you know, an intention and having those conversations, I gave you space

and an opportunity to really make it your final decision ultimately.

Yeah.

I never believed in anything, quite frankly.

I do never mind, being in a parental position as your

mom to say, you know what?

You must do this.

I'm not an all and nothing kind of woman, so, um, I certainly never wanted

to present the opportunity as such.

So from my recollection and perspective, I was mad, crazy in love

with the idea of being able to work with Jessica because quite frankly,

it was a skillset I didn't have.

sure I can educate, sure, I can, convey vast amounts of information.

Occasionally, but I have to put some serious effort into it.

I really have to work it because it's not a natural gift,

quite frankly, that I have.

I can strategize and create tactics and systems and processes, honey.

I can do that in a coma.

But to take vast, copious amounts of competing information,

even aligned information.

No, I, I, I have to work at that.

So, recognizing that Jessica can do this effortlessly I recognize I need

somebody to do this, awesome that I can look to my own daughter to come

in and grow and really add value.

And service to our clients.

I mean, honest to goodness, that was really the notion of it.

And you know, I think we may even wanna talk about how, okay, so we

have these two origin stories, right?

So we are actually working on two separate tracks.

Once you decided to come in, And once you arrived I was, stoked.

I was like so sweet

and I dunno if I was stoked.

I think I was a little terrified.

Okay.

Oh, I was a little bit like, what?

Just what have I into?

Yeah, it's like the complete opposite of.

The bureaucratic structure of, you know, the school day and lesson planning,

and I just don't think there would've been anything that would've exactly

prepared me for what I walked into.

So it wasn't that the opportunity wasn't great, it was just I went from one extreme

kind of structured industry to like the.

just the world of entrepreneurship.

I was like, what is, what's a networking event?

What, I don't know what sales is like.

I didn't understand what all of that was about.

What a value pro.

I was like, I don't know what any of these things mean.

So, uh, and I think what I think what you're getting at with the story or

origin story is also, You were saying, you know, I gave you space to sort

of embrace that as, as your story and not feel like I had to correct that.

And I think if we take this conversation a step above Yeah.

You know, a lot of people look at the dynamic that we share and they're

like, how do you two make it work?

And how, how have you been doing this Literally since 2016?

So this is about seven years now.

Yeah.

And we haven't, we haven't gotten to a point where we hate each other.

Like, how, how do you all do that?

Well, from my perspective, I think it, to be in small business and a leader

in a small business, there has to be a, an incredible level of trust of yourself.

And my hope was to give you enough latitude, and space to gain that

space and trust for yourself.

Right?

And.

I knew the first year was perhaps the real watershed moment.

That's really where you were gonna make the decision at

the end of that first year.

Are you in or out at the end of that year experience and so let

me unpack that a little bit.

In that time, you were the one that came up with the convention

of calling me Susan during the day.

And so that wasn't something I created.

I went along with it because I thought, well, that was pretty savvy.

In order to keep the dynamic of wait in business hours at the office.

I'm Susan, your business partner coworker, not mom, quote unquote,

with air quotes, and I'm, and I'm air quoting like crazy here.

People, you know, it's the, I was Susan, so.

That was pretty savvy on your part, and I thought, okay, she's got good instincts.

I'll follow along and let's see where this goes.

And I could give you example after example, after example.

And I was learning from you equally and I, and I gave myself some space

to, you know what, I'm not gonna have all the answers she needs or requires.

We're gonna figure this out as we go.

And some days, quite frankly, it felt like we were changing a tire on a car going 60.

I'm not gonna lie.

so I'm not gonna give it this, you know, Aliana.

Oh, it was magical.

No, it wasn't.

there were some times that it was strained, but let me be really clear,

in that level of strain, it was, yikes, we gotta figure this out.

It was never, go to hell or I'm not doing this.

We were always able to

not like those business reality TV shows where it's like

the dramatic music and the families like screaming at each other.

Like I, we, that has never ever, ever happened.

No, no, no.

But for me in that first year, I think it was really interesting

because you were watching and learning by, you know, being alongside me.

As a, I would like to believe as an adult, not as a child, learning from a parent.

You were there as an adult learning a new role of responsibility

and skillset, and I think you always came to it with wide eyes.

were no side stories.

It was very open, transparent.

You know, we're running a business, we're.

A startup, we were true entrepreneurs and we're, we're gonna figure

this stuff out together, not me, way up high on the mountain as

mom, thou shall do this or that.

I always included you in on any decision, quite frankly.

It was never only the big decisions or only the small decisions.

It was truly all of the decisions and.

I think we've always had a respect for each other's skills and decisioning.

I think that's a big thing we should share with everybody.

We always had that very strong dynamic.

So let me talk about the parent or the moms that would look at me and

go, E you know that, that grimace.

I think what they were concerned about, like, Ooh, you must be at each other.

And it's like, no, we we're not shouters number one.

We're not flame throwers, number two.

that's not to say that we didn't have, purposeful real.

Okay?

I have this belief.

You have that belief.

How do we work it out?

We always came in it from that decisioning, right?

So, the ones that grimaced and thought, yikes, I would

never work with my daughter.

That usually is more of an indicator of their interpersonal

relationship with their daughter.

I think our interpersonal relationship, once seven o'clock hits, so we should

probably tell everybody, Jessica, what's the seven o'clock rule?

Oh, no more business.

Which is actually that at this point it's, it's difficult because I find that

sometimes that's when creative ideas come to me and I'm like, Ooh, I gotta

text her about this, or, you know, but I think it, it is coming up with some,

Boundaries for lack of a better, I know that's such an overused word, but it's

like, okay, you know, at some point we need to stop talking shop and shift into

going back to family mode, you know, and something as I was just listening

to you, I think one my instinct to call, I wouldn't call it an instinct

for me calling you Susan, was actually very strategic because I had just come.

Yes.

Because I had just come from teaching where for.

essentially the six years that I was teaching, all I wanted was

for people to see me as an adult.

I look so young, not so much anymore, right?

Cause I'm in my mid thirties at this point.

But I was always mistaken, even though I dressed up, I was

always mistaken for a student.

I remember going to the cafeteria line once and the woman at the cash register

told me like, in school suspension, students can't buy lunch right now.

And I was like, You know, the rule follower of me was like, first of all, I

would never be a student that's suspended.

But second of all, I've worked here.

I'm a teacher, so, so when I got into the business, you know,

and a lot of our clients from my perspective, were significantly older

than than me at the time, right?

Because then sometimes our, client demographic has shifted with age.

But at the time, you know, I didn't want them to see me sort

of as a following you around.

Like, oh, it's just Susan's daughter shadowing her,

Do you recall at that time too, that those that did view you

as a follower long daughter of, they would ask you to do could you get this

message to Susan or could you, order us.

Drinks or, you know, can you order us lunch as we're like, well,

so the assumption was, yeah, that I was essentially like, I

was shadowing you or and that's not to demean what assistants or executive

assistants do, but it was sort of this default of, oh, she's so young

and she doesn't know anything about business and this is Susan's business.

And so, so that, I think, I'm glad that you thought it was strategic

and intuitive, but it definitely, it, it was very thoughtful on

my end and, and, and I think.

When people have asked me, how do you two make it work?

I, I think you touched on something with some mother-daughter relationships.

Just the dynamic would not lend itself to something that we do like.

I think that's just being realistic.

I think the two of us have always gotten along because I think our personalities

are different enough where we don't have the same approach to everything.

Our default reaction to things isn't the same.

Uh, I think just our personalities and skillsets are different enough where

they complement each other rather than create potential friction or conflict.

Yeah, and I think it's also fair to say too, while we do have

those differences, we do also.

Maintain that those differences are not viewed or received as threatening.

Correct.

Right.

well, I'm just gonna put it in the very big, most category.

Cause I can't say in a sweeping statement that everybody has that impression, but

most they're like, wow, how do you do it?

It's because there's a lot of mutual.

Respect here, you know, I really do respect Jessica's, education, her

experience, her background, and I'm very mindful of the contributions she

brings to this, business, quite frankly.

And, and, well, I think we've always been there.

one of the things, if those of you listening to this are like,

well I don't, I don't know if I'll ever be in a family business or work with

my daughter or work with my mother.

You're just even thinking about teams in general.

I think one of the things that you had us do at the beginning was, and I'll

always remember this, was the Colby Test, which is one of those personality tests

like the, there's so many out there.

Engram disc.

We did the Colby starts with a K, and I think just even seeing that.

You are a quick start and I am a fact finder.

Those are Colby specific terms.

So your default is I'm gonna make a quick decision and I'm gonna take

action to implement this really quickly, whereas someone comes to me

with a decision and I'm gonna ask you.

By default, 50 questions.

And I think we, we learned in the beginning how to leverage that and

use that to the business's advantage as opposed to, oh my God, why is she

asking me so many questions again?

Or, oh my God, I can't believe she continues to come up

with these project ideas.

Like, this is chaos and crazy.

I think we learned how to channel and harness that in a very thoughtful way.

Yeah, I think that's an important lesson for those of you

listening in and ease dropping on us.

Um, one thing I would suggest is when you are developing team, the dynamic

that you know, whilst Jessica and I are in fact mother and daughter, I mean,

there's no getting around it, right?

We are equal partners and that means we have to honor, listen, pause, digest.

And commit to that process over and over and over.

And how do you do that?

You have to learn what that person's communication style is.

So as Jessica just mentioned, we use colby.com and there's no,

affiliating or anything like that.

We just use that as a tour and I only use one.

And that's a remarkable thing too, by the way, for a business advisor.

Usually they, they have a whole toolkit of these assessments, disk anagram.

Briggs and Meyer or Meyers and Brig.

Tomato.

Tomato, what the hell you wanna call it?

I don't care.

But me, I like simple.

Obi has four.

We use the four.

And you know, I've used it consistently.

And quite frankly, I think it's a thing about walking the talk, right?

So I'm always talking about don't hire yourself.

and this is the thing, a lot of small businesses.

You know, they get sold on the candidate and they see a lot of

themselves in that candidate and they buy the potential of that person

thinking is they're projecting, right?

And this is a natural human thing.

We wanna create community and, and we project like attracts like,

and in this instance we use the Colbys so that when we do have.

est strained or a hot topic to unpack and engage with.

We can honor each other's communication style.

And one thing I've always encouraged building our team,

we just did it recently.

We welcomed a team member, Amy, and I literally had to say to Amy, I will

move mountains for you because PS Amy is Jessica's cousin and my niece.

And, I love you.

I love you all the way to the moon and five times back and forth.

However, this is not about me as your auntie.

This is about Susan, the business owner, and she celebrates.

She thought it was awesome, and quite frankly, thank goodness, she, took the col

beat willingly and happily and gleefully.

She.

Showed up as I hoped she would.

She came in as the follow through and implementer, which we needed.

I'm a quick start.

Jessica's a fact finder and we needed that missing link of the follow

through and implementer and it makes our team work really, really well.

And, Yes, she is my niece.

She is a family member.

We do have some shorthand.

I think that's important to call out for folks to understand.

You know, when you do hire friend or family, you will have history

in shorthand, but I don't know what you mean by shorthand.

There's my question.

the shorthand is, she's gonna know that as a quick start, I start things

and I get that to about level four, and I look to delegate it or leverage it.

I'm not gonna hold onto it as if for dare life, like a life preserver.

has history with family members, right?

So we have, it's that kind of language.

that's the shorthand, right?

So, at this point, the Colby served us well and we were able to

leverage that and do okay with it.

So I would love to shift to, you know, we've, we've, we've

been talking about the, the different.

Dynamics and, and how our personalities have really complimented each other.

And I would like for the two of us to answer this question.

what have we learned from the other?

So for example, what have I, Jessica, the way I work, the way I function,

what have I learned from you?

What have you taught me?

And vice versa.

What have I Jessica taught you?

And so if I think about where I was in beginning the business, entering the

business where I was very regimented I just wasn't entrepreneurial.

I wasn't an entrepreneurial thinker.

It took me a long time to implement things and, and do things.

And I would say, Two things come to mind very readily.

One, if you don't ask, you don't get.

I always used to be like, oh, well, you know, it's not gonna happen.

So, you know, we will just, we'll just have to deal with it.

Now, I just, I ask, I'm like, oh, well, I know you said this,

but w could we possibly try this?

Not in a pushy way, but, I'll ask instead of assuming that the answer

is no or it won't happen, and I definitely wouldn't have done that.

When I was still a teacher.

And so I, I always, always will remember that phrase, if

you don't ask, you don't get.

and then I would also say, as much as I definitely am still

in the fact finder space, that is my thing, that is my default.

I would say I am so much.

I.

Faster with my implementation of things than I was in the beginning.

So I'll make a decision and then put it into action as opposed to thinking

about it and brainstorming about it and coming up with all the what ifs.

You know?

I think it's the faster implementation and faster decision making for sure.

So those are two things I, I would definitely say you've

had an influence, over me with.

I adore that.

Thank you.

That's kind of generous to share.

Thanks.

you'll have to share the airplane example.

Oh, okay.

So we were, we were flying, I don't even remember, I think we were

at some sort of business retreat.

This was, we were probably within the first year or so

of being in business and Yep.

We were flying.

And, I really wanted like, you know, those little Pringle, Cans

that they offer on the plane.

I don't even know what airline we were on Delta.

Oh.

Cause some people are like, which airline offers Pringles?

Right.

Delta, I don't, was it Delta?

So we were flying and I was like, oh, I really want a can of Pringles, but I,

it looks like they didn't have any in the basket, so they must be out of 'em.

Like, oh, I'll just, I'll just wait until they get to the airport and you.

Asked very nicely for the, the woman to come over and you

said, do you have any Pringles?

She's like, oh yeah, I have some in storage.

I'll go, I'll go grab some.

And you're like, see, you don't ask, you don't get, what's the worst

that she was gonna say, we're out.

We don't have any, instead of being like, oh, well I guess they don't

have any, I'll just sit here and think about the Pringles that I wanted.

And yeah.

So that was, that was the example.

And that's is, that's everything, right?

Mm-hmm.

And that's, that's I think, is a lesson that I learned really young too.

So, for me, thank you for sharing that, by the way.

Fun story.

That was a, actually a fun time on that airplane too.

Mm-hmm.

okay.

So for me, what I've learned best from you is to slow down a little bit.

for those of you that do these inventories, I am E N T J and

I am a very high, quick start.

I'm an intuitive business owner.

I plan, I don't bet yet.

I'm very intuitive, so if something feels, looks, sounds, Correct or on point.

I'm all in.

I'm in sister.

I am three walls through getting it done and what I've learned from

you is, well, maybe we should ask a question or two before we vector

off into a whole new direction.

I never took it as a, I was doing something incorrect or, To be

plain wrong, it was just, hold on.

Maybe we should ask an extra question or two so that our team members

feel at ease as we move forward.

And you taught me that, you taught me that big lesson.

the young lesson you taught me is teach everybody all at

once, the love of heaven above.

And I think that is a huge lesson for me as a business leader, owner

advisor, is understanding, ask what questions need to be answered at this

moment, and take that as the lead.

And that's invaluable.

That's been invaluable.

So those two lessons,

I love that.

Yeah, and I think on that note, now you all know a little bit more about our

mother-daughter family business dynamic and you know, I think as you're thinking

about as a business owner yourself, if you're thinking about bringing on a

family member or just a team member, I.

I hope that you walked away with some valuable tips from this, and

please feel free to send those over our way@iwannacollaborate.com.

You have our contact information.

Would love to know what your big, big takeaways were from this.

So, Susan, any final thoughts before we wrap up the show?

Yeah, be brave, ask, commit, engage, and take a chance.

Life is so richly rewarded when we do.

So that would be my takeaway.

Awesome.

I hope you did.

Yeah.

Well, thank you, as always for tuning in for listening to this, and we'll see

you next time.