S3 E6 Equity-Centered Leadership: Why Diversity Isn't Anti-Merit

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S3E6 Katherine Turner on Equity-Centered Leadership - Why Representation Matters Katherine Turner, founder of Global Citizen LLC, joins Monique Velasquez and Piper Kessler to break down equity-centered leadership, why the anti-DEI movement is based on false messages, and how diverse leadership teams outperform homogenous ones—economically, socially, and spiritually. Katherine has worked in 50+ countries across five continents as a strategic equity-centered consultant, leadership coach, and social change agent. She challenges the false dichotomy between diversity and merit, explains why imposter syndrome is really "imposter systems," and shares how to create psychologically safe teams that flourish. In This Episode You'll Learn: - Why circumstances of birth shouldn't determine our futures - The false message: "We value diversity, but not at the expense of merit"—and why that assumption is biased - Why diverse leadership teams outperform homogenous ones (the data is overwhelming) - How the anti-DEI movement perpetuates false messages about equity work - The six signature traits of inclusive leadership (including courage to buck the status quo) - Why imposter syndrome is actually "imposter systems"—internalized negative messages from oppressive systems - How to interrupt biased thinking: Recognize, interrupt, replace, or ask open-ended questions - Why representation matters for young people who need to see themselves in leadership - How Katherine uses media and storytelling to spark dialogue and challenge biases - Why alignment (mission, vision, values, policies) = organizational peace and well-being Key Timestamps: 00:05 - Circumstances of birth shouldn't determine futures 12:29 - Our identities shouldn't pre-determine our outcomes 14:22 - Coming out as queer lesbian, interrogating white identity 17:50 - Creating a multiracial, queer blended family 21:34 - Recognizing biases, interrupting them, replacing them 22:05 - Leadership coaching: Replacing internalized negative messages 29:36 - "Why would you assume diversity reduces merit or excellence?" 33:42 - Anti-DEI campaigns perpetuate false messages 34:22 - Six signature traits of inclusive leadership 36:01 - Diverse leadership teams outperform homogenous ones 38:01 - Values Clarification for Action and Transformation methodology 39:08 - Using media to spark dialogue: Documentary films, photos, headlines The False Dichotomy: Too often, predominantly white leaders say: "We value diversity, but not at the expense of merit and excellence." Katherine's response: "Why would you assume that having a more diverse leadership team would necessarily reduce your merit or excellence? Isn't that the assumption you're making—that if you increase diversity, you sacrifice excellence?" The Truth: The data is clear and overwhelming. Organizations with diverse and inclusive senior leadership outperform those that don't—economically, socially, and spiritually. Global Citizen LLC Services: - Individual & Team Leadership Coaching (C-suite development, emerging leader development) - Organizational Consulting (strategic assessments, visioning, planning, execution) - Training & Workshops (Values Clarification for Action and Transformation, global competence, bias mitigation, psychological safety) Work with Katherine Turner: [email protected] Work with Velasquez Media: velasquezmedia.com | [email protected] Production: Velasquez Media - 20+ years helping mission-driven organizations create video strategies that work #EquityCenteredLeadership #DiversityAndInclusion #InclusiveLeadership #DEI #RepresentationMatters #LeadershipCoaching #OrganizationalTransformation #GlobalCitizen #PsychologicalSafety #SystemicEquity

CHANGE THE REEL with Piper and Monique

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Executive Producers: Monique Velasquez and Piper Kessler

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Copyright 2026 Monique & Piper

<b>I am really someone who values equity.</b>

<b>I think that our circumstances of birth</b>

<b>shouldn't determine our futures, that our identities</b>

<b>around the race, ethnicity, gender that we're</b>

<b>born into shouldn't pre-determine the outcomes</b>

<b>for us, that we should all have equitable opportunities to flourish and thrive.</b>

<b>Change the Real with Monique Velasquez and Piper Kessler.</b>

<b>For more than 20 years, we've worked in video production behind the scenes, helping</b>

<b>mission-driven organizations and leaders.</b>

<b>This podcast exists for leaders who know their</b>

<b>stories matter and are ready to stop guessing</b>

<b>and start using video strategically to further their mission.</b>

<b>Not just fill a contact calendar.</b>

<b>Each month, we drop two types of episodes.</b>

<b>One with Piper and I kicking it, sharing</b>

<b>production insight from our own work, and another featuring</b>

<b>real stories about using media to create change and connection.</b>

<b>This is Change the Reel.</b>

<b>Representation starts here.</b>

<b>Hey y'all.</b>

<b>I'm Monique Velasquez.</b>

<b>And I'm Piper Kessler.</b>

<b>Today, we're here in the studio with our friend, Katherine Turner.</b>

<b>We know she is a champion of equity in health</b>

<b>spaces and working with leaders as they contemplate</b>

<b>their missions and goals.</b>

<b>But not just in the health spaces, in all kinds of spaces for leaders.</b>

<b>Katherine is the founder and president of</b>

<b>Global Citizen LLC, a strategic equity-centered</b>

<b>consulting, coaching, and training for</b>

<b>transformation firm and adjunct professor in leadership systems</b>

<b>and design thinking, global health equity, and intercultural competence.</b>

<b>She is an internationally recognized</b>

<b>consultant, leadership coach, trainer, speaker, board</b>

<b>member, and social change agent who has</b>

<b>worked in English, French, and Dutch in more than</b>

<b>50 countries spanning five continents.</b>

<b>Global Citizen LLC celebrates with leaders</b>

<b>in all sectors across the United States and</b>

<b>worldwide to develop high-performing</b>

<b>leaders and teams, conduct strategic assessments,</b>

<b>visioning, planning, and execution, drive</b>

<b>organizational transformation to align vision,</b>

<b>mission, values, policies, strategies, and</b>

<b>culture, and deliver high-impact results for</b>

<b>a better world.</b>

<b>We love that.</b>

<b>I couldn't have said it better.</b>

<b>Welcome to Change the Reel, where representation starts here.</b>

<b>So Global!</b>

<b>I love Global Citizen.</b>

<b>I love that you are like 50 countries in different languages, in different places.</b>

<b>If you were going to give flowers, who would</b>

<b>you give flowers to that encouraged you, helped</b>

<b>you along your entrepreneurial journey?</b>

<b>And it could be somebody you don't know, somebody you haven't met.</b>

<b>Right.</b>

<b>Who would that be?</b>

<b>So many people to give flowers to.</b>

<b>That's good!</b>

<b>I love to give flowers, and I love to receive flowers.</b>

<b>I'd start with my family.</b>

<b>So my beautiful blended family, my son,</b>

<b>Jaden, my former partners, Valerie and Jackie, and</b>

<b>this incredible, beautiful blended family that we created.</b>

<b>And it's a multiracial, multiethnic,</b>

<b>multisexual orientation, gender identity family.</b>

<b>And so our family and what we've done and</b>

<b>what we've had to endure to create this beautiful</b>

<b>family in a world that doesn't see and</b>

<b>recognize families like ours or actively discriminates</b>

<b>against them has been a real inspiration</b>

<b>for me to work to create a better world, which</b>

<b>is our tagline.</b>

<b>And then my parents and grandparents.</b>

<b>So my mom always encouraged me to live without regret.</b>

<b>And my dad is also was an entrepreneur and an executive leader.</b>

<b>And my grandparents really instilled in us</b>

<b>strong values and integrity, which is core</b>

<b>to who I am and who our business is.</b>

<b>And then our beloved community, which my</b>

<b>chosen family and friends, so my friend Gita,</b>

<b>who really mentored and inspired me to start</b>

<b>the firm, and Robin, and Tamara, and Milan,</b>

<b>and so many other friends who have really supported me along the way.</b>

<b>And Maria Montessori, who inspired Global Citizen.</b>

<b>So when my son was in Montessori school and I</b>

<b>was leading our, essentially our DEI, diversity,</b>

<b>equity and inclusion work at his school,</b>

<b>learning about her teachings on global citizenry</b>

<b>and how we teach and develop global citizens</b>

<b>to act ethically in the world is really what</b>

<b>inspired me to start my firm and to name it Global Citizen.</b>

<b>That is beautiful.</b>

<b>That something that you are compelled to</b>

<b>do, put your kid in school, really helped form</b>

<b>or at least help you funnel that focus into action.</b>

<b>Yeah.</b>

<b>I love that.</b>

<b>I love that.</b>

<b>Tell us a little about your business.</b>

<b>You talk about Global Citizen and sort of</b>

<b>these great ideas that have pushed you in that.</b>

<b>What's the heart of what you do?</b>

<b>Yeah.</b>

<b>Why do you get up out of bed every day and run to work?</b>

<b>Run!</b>

<b>I am really driven by transformation and</b>

<b>equity are really the through lines of what I've</b>

<b>done throughout my life, both personally and professionally.</b>

<b>And so with Global Citizen, as you did such a lovely job of introducing our firm,</b>

<b>we're a strategic equity centered consulting,</b>

<b>coaching, and training for transformation firm.</b>

<b>And so we work with individuals, leaders</b>

<b>and teams and staff at organizations really in</b>

<b>all sectors across the US and around the world.</b>

<b>And we work at different levels.</b>

<b>So I do individual and team leadership coaching and development.</b>

<b>I work with leaders on the C-suite.</b>

<b>So developing effective, inclusive</b>

<b>leadership teams, work with organizations to conduct</b>

<b>strategic assessments, strategic visioning,</b>

<b>planning and execution, landscape analyses</b>

<b>to really help them understand what is their current state.</b>

<b>And from honestly, what's their current state?</b>

<b>Bringing in an outside person as a consultant</b>

<b>really enables me to conduct interviews, focus</b>

<b>group discussions, survey responses, and</b>

<b>really hear honestly about what their organizational</b>

<b>state is, what people's experience is in their organization and with their leaders.</b>

<b>And then again, conducting a landscape analysis</b>

<b>allows me to look at what's the broader landscape</b>

<b>that these leaders and organizations are operating in.</b>

<b>What are the trends?</b>

<b>What are changes afoot?</b>

<b>What are risks and opportunities that they</b>

<b>need to be aware of so that they can conduct</b>

<b>so we can conduct strategic visioning</b>

<b>assessment and planning to help them envision and then</b>

<b>execute and move towards this future that they see for themselves.</b>

<b>So just to help parse out some of the very</b>

<b>detailed information you gave us there is</b>

<b>that what I see is you like sort of</b>

<b>learning about spaces and connecting away or a path</b>

<b>to this vision.</b>

<b>And the vision can be internal to the organization.</b>

<b>But I see the global citizen and that idea</b>

<b>that there's a better world out there, which</b>

<b>I just I love having smart, capable people</b>

<b>out in the world doing a lot of this, you</b>

<b>know, you know, pushing through the chaos, pulling these visions together.</b>

<b>And it sounds like that's the kind of work that really makes you happy.</b>

<b>It does.</b>

<b>And ultimately, I'm really driven by helping</b>

<b>organizational leaders and teams gain clarity</b>

<b>around their current state and their</b>

<b>desired future state and how they're going to get</b>

<b>there because so often people take these kind of piecemeal approaches.</b>

<b>They'll try this, they'll try that.</b>

<b>But there's not a coherent strategy.</b>

<b>So I love strategy.</b>

<b>I'm really driven by that, strategy for purpose and meaning and mission.</b>

<b>And so purpose being for a better world, for equity, for everyone.</b>

<b>And so how do we create that?</b>

<b>Because too often, I think people think that</b>

<b>it's unattainable that - and certainly there are</b>

<b>a lot of goals that we might not reach in</b>

<b>our lifetime or our vision, we may not fully</b>

<b>achieve. But we have to know we have to be</b>

<b>able to envision the world that we want and</b>

<b>then and then figure out how we're going to work to create it.</b>

<b>And I love collaborating with leaders on that</b>

<b>and to help them see that your vision matters,</b>

<b>that we can create a plan to help you get towards that vision.</b>

<b>And and that, again, we may not achieve</b>

<b>all of it in our lifetime, but at least we're</b>

<b>moving towards it. And we're also</b>

<b>developing future leaders who will carry the torch.</b>

<b>So that sounds like so much of like that</b>

<b>maybe there was a specific moment, I'm wondering,</b>

<b>where you were like, oh, I see where this is</b>

<b>lacking in the world or where I'm not where</b>

<b>I can do this. Was there a specific event or?</b>

<b>You know, it's not necessarily a specific</b>

<b>event, but really my whole life, I have been</b>

<b>acutely attuned to disparities to</b>

<b>discrimination. I mean, I remember even as a child growing</b>

<b>up as a white person in a white, predominantly</b>

<b>white family, just being really aware of inequities</b>

<b>around race and systemic racism around</b>

<b>gender. I was always a very strong woman. I always</b>

<b>challenged my family members and then later</b>

<b>organizational leaders to identify and address</b>

<b>systemic biases, whether it was systemic</b>

<b>racism, sexism, homophobia, transphobia, xenophobia.</b>

<b>And I just think some of it is kind of how</b>

<b>I'm wired. Some of it was my global upbringing.</b>

<b>So my family moved around a lot and</b>

<b>including to London my middle school year. So and we</b>

<b>traveled and traveled a lot during those</b>

<b>years as well. And those were - So when you're in London,</b>

<b>you got to go like a lot of European</b>

<b>countries, just be able to be so close to London and</b>

<b>then go to France and wherever.</b>

<b>Yeah. So our family trips were around the</b>

<b>UK and around Europe. Our school trips were</b>

<b>to Greece and Crete and to Florence, Italy</b>

<b>when I was in sixth grade and seventh grade.</b>

<b>I mean, I went to the American School in</b>

<b>London, which was really an international school of</b>

<b>kids whose parents lived all over the</b>

<b>world and some of whom had never actually lived</b>

<b>in the US. And so from a young age, I was</b>

<b>learning French, I was traveling to different</b>

<b>countries in a very international community.</b>

<b>And so that also, I think, allowed me to step</b>

<b>outside of my own culture and really</b>

<b>question a lot about the cultural assumptions I was</b>

<b>raised with in the US to realize that the way the US does things are not always the</b>

<b>best.</b>

<b>What is what is one of those as a kid that</b>

<b>you were thinking, this seems a little bit</b>

<b>better than what we did back in the States.</b>

<b>Yeah, definitely economic equity. And I</b>

<b>was also an international exchange student in</b>

<b>the Netherlands when I graduated from high</b>

<b>school before I went to college. And I lived</b>

<b>with a Dutch family and there's nothing</b>

<b>like living with another family to really make</b>

<b>you question your family norms as well as</b>

<b>your cultural norms. And a lot of people in</b>

<b>the school were challenging US capitalism</b>

<b>and really having me engage in debate with</b>

<b>them about the merits of capitalism versus</b>

<b>the merits of more of a socialist government</b>

<b>and society. And a lot of the practices that</b>

<b>the Dutch government and people were engaging</b>

<b>in, caused me to realize that I am really someone</b>

<b>who values equity. I think that our circumstances</b>

<b>of birth shouldn't determine our futures,</b>

<b>that our identities around the race, ethnicity,</b>

<b>gender that we're born into shouldn't</b>

<b>pre-determine the outcomes for us, that we should all have</b>

<b>equitable opportunities to flourish and</b>

<b>thrive. And so that being challenged around kind of</b>

<b>the economic systems also caused me to look at</b>

<b>broader systems and again, systems of oppression</b>

<b>and systems of equity.</b>

<b>That is very self-aware for a young</b>

<b>person, right? You know, we've had different</b>

<b>guests talk about that moment. And so for</b>

<b>you, it's all woven into lots of different</b>

<b>things because it's about economics. It's</b>

<b>about your place as a foreigner in another</b>

<b>country and having question, I mean, that</b>

<b>forces you to start thinking about it, right?</b>

<b>Right.</b>

<b>Because it's not the default.</b>

<b>What we take for granted or not everyone,</b>

<b>but what many people in the US may take for</b>

<b>granted as "the way" to do things, the way</b>

<b>systems are, the way societies are, obviously is not.</b>

<b>And that really led me into studying and</b>

<b>understanding intercultural competence and global competence</b>

<b>and then creating my firm's global</b>

<b>competence model and training programs to really teach</b>

<b>people that we need to understand and recognize</b>

<b>diverse cultures and that there isn't a superior</b>

<b>culture and inferior culture, that there are</b>

<b>these differences that we need to recognize</b>

<b>and value. And then to really understand how</b>

<b>do we create multicultural systems, whether</b>

<b>they're multicultural organizations,</b>

<b>multicultural schools, multicultural communities. And so</b>

<b>that really informed my work around global competence.</b>

<b>So as you're growing up, at some point, we</b>

<b>all figure out there's something about us</b>

<b>that might be a little different.</b>

<b>Yeah.</b>

<b>We figured out, you know, differently, right?</b>

<b>Yeah.</b>

<b>Like, yeah, I've got this other thing</b>

<b>going on. And what was the awakening that there</b>

<b>was something else about who you were that just set you apart?</b>

<b>Yeah, I think that one, my identity as a</b>

<b>US citizen in the world and really embracing</b>

<b>my identity as a global citizen rather than</b>

<b>only a US citizen, because that is what resonated</b>

<b>for me. There's so many cultures that</b>

<b>resonate for me. And seemingly from birth, my best</b>

<b>friend from elementary school who I connected</b>

<b>with later on Facebook said, from third grade,</b>

<b>you were talking about being a Peace Corps</b>

<b>volunteer in Africa. And it's like, how did</b>

<b>I know? I don't have any family members who</b>

<b>are in the Peace Corps, I didn't know anyone.</b>

<b>Well, I had family members who, one who was</b>

<b>an ambassador and his wife, and they lived</b>

<b>in different places. But I didn't have</b>

<b>experience at the Peace Corps in Africa, really, in my</b>

<b>family. So where did that idea come from at</b>

<b>such a young age? And so global citizen identity,</b>

<b>certainly my identity as a strong woman</b>

<b>growing up in a family where mostly, but not all of</b>

<b>the men in my family were working outside</b>

<b>the home. And many of the women were working</b>

<b>as mothers and as caring for the home. And yet I</b>

<b>always knew, and my aunt, though, was a teacher,</b>

<b>and she did consulting for National Geographic.</b>

<b>And she really inspired me to be a professional</b>

<b>woman and being a strong woman and then coming</b>

<b>out as a queer lesbian after college. But even in</b>

<b>college was really high school and college were</b>

<b>really formative years around my identity as a</b>

<b>feminist and, again, challenging systems of</b>

<b>oppression around gender and for women and</b>

<b>gender more broadly. And then coming out as a</b>

<b>queer lesbian after college and realizing that</b>

<b>that was another difference that I had been</b>

<b>kind of working my way through around my own sexual</b>

<b>identity and gender identity. And then as time</b>

<b>has gone on, really interrogating my identity as a</b>

<b>white person in a world with systemic racial</b>

<b>oppression and white supremacy and increasingly</b>

<b>understanding about gender diversity and really</b>

<b>supporting trans rights and the right for bodily</b>

<b>autonomy and gender autonomy. And so it's</b>

<b>been an evolution. Yeah. You have this, you know,</b>

<b>I know that you worked at Ipas, which is, you</b>

<b>know, renowned for its women's, how do I say this,</b>

<b>just I mean, think about what we did in Mexico,</b>

<b>right? Sexual reproductive health and rights. Yes, thank you.</b>

<b>Yeah. Sexual reproductive health and rights,</b>

<b>which is, sad to say, not a universally accepted idea.</b>

<b>And we see a lot of these rights being revoked</b>

<b>inside of our own country. But I also see this</b>

<b>as an interesting way for somebody who's</b>

<b>queer, where, you know, reproductive rights are</b>

<b>absolutely in the form of because you don't</b>

<b>necessarily advocate for not having a family.</b>

<b>For - but only for yourself, right? But that would</b>

<b>be, but the thing is, that's not who you are either,</b>

<b>because you actually have a family and you</b>

<b>created a family in a way that I think is just</b>

<b>an amazing conscious effort of creating family.</b>

<b>Yeah, yeah, very intentionally. I always knew I</b>

<b>wanted to have a child or children. I thought</b>

<b>growing up that I would likely adopt, but then my</b>

<b>former partner, Jackie, really wanted us to have</b>

<b>a child biologically, didn't want to carry, and I</b>

<b>was very open to artificial insemination. And</b>

<b>so we went that route and we selected an African</b>

<b>American donor because she's African American.</b>

<b>And we wanted him to represent, I knew I would</b>

<b>carry. So we wanted him to represent, you</b>

<b>know, our family cultures and found a donor who was</b>

<b>African American. And it was a beautiful</b>

<b>experience. It was really beautiful to be pregnant, to be able</b>

<b>to carry our son. I'm one of the few women really</b>

<b>in the world who's had one intended pregnancy in</b>

<b>my lifetime. And then that resulted in the</b>

<b>birth of a healthy baby and my only child. I mean,</b>

<b>for many women have experienced miscarriage and</b>

<b>abortion and, you know, a variety of different</b>

<b>reproductive health experiences. And our son is</b>

<b>21. And he's a wonderful young man who we're just</b>

<b>so incredibly proud of. And then to form this</b>

<b>multiracial queer and straight, our son, extended</b>

<b>family and blended family in again, a world</b>

<b>that is where we're just experiencing so much</b>

<b>discrimination. I remember with my former</b>

<b>partner, we would go places as an interracial couple and</b>

<b>then family and just the assumptions people would</b>

<b>make. People often assumed I wasn't Jaden's birth</b>

<b>mother because he's biracial and presents as</b>

<b>African American and I'm white. And so even the</b>

<b>kids at his school would say like, "Who's his real</b>

<b>mommy?" and, you know, "real" again, the ways that we</b>

<b>don't authenticate, we don't recognize and</b>

<b>validate families in all of our forms. Right.</b>

<b>Yeah. And then the discrimination that Jackie</b>

<b>and I would experience where people thought I was,</b>

<b>assumed I was her social worker. And even my son,</b>

<b>I brought him to an appointment when he was a young</b>

<b>adult. And the person came in the room and said,</b>

<b>"Are you his social worker?" to me. I said, "I'm his</b>

<b>mother." And why are you assuming that I'm his</b>

<b>social worker? Yeah. There are so many, like,</b>

<b>you know, interesting things. My cousin, who</b>

<b>also had a child that presented very, very white.</b>

<b>And she would often get accosted for having</b>

<b>this child with her. She's, you know, darker,</b>

<b>complexion, but we're about the same complexion. It</b>

<b>was just amazing the stories that I would hear.</b>

<b>And yes, they should be challenging if they</b>

<b>think a child is in distress, but that was not</b>

<b>necessarily the case when they were being</b>

<b>challenged. Yeah. And I assume the same thing</b>

<b>for you. Yeah. And so I hate that that happened</b>

<b>to you, but it does inform how you interact in the</b>

<b>world. Absolutely. I mean, this is these are the</b>

<b>lived experiences and the stories that I bring to</b>

<b>the work we do around addressing and mitigating</b>

<b>biases is knowing that we all have biases. It's</b>

<b>natural and evolutionary that we've developed</b>

<b>to think and think in biased ways. And there is a</b>

<b>plus to that evolutionarily. But now there's a</b>

<b>lot of harm that can also come from it. And so</b>

<b>instructing people about, again, that you're not</b>

<b>a bad person because you have biased thinking or</b>

<b>thoughts, we all do. But what do we do with</b>

<b>those? How do we recognize those biases? How do we</b>

<b>interrupt them? How do we stop ourselves</b>

<b>when we have the thought, which we all will have</b>

<b>at some point, how do we stop ourselves and say,</b>

<b>okay, I'm going to recognize what's happening and</b>

<b>I'm going to interrupt it, I'm going to replace</b>

<b>it, or I'm going to ask an open-ended question,</b>

<b>I'm not going to make an assumption. And so this is the kind of training that we do</b>

<b>for organizations and leaders. And so, you</b>

<b>know, talking about when you look at these</b>

<b>challenges, what kind of challenges</b>

<b>do you find most rewarding when you get past,</b>

<b>you know, these these these ideas? Yeah, well,</b>

<b>I love my leadership coaching. And I come off of</b>

<b>each leadership call, a coaching call, just</b>

<b>euphoric, because I get to work with either</b>

<b>individuals or pairs. So sometimes, and I</b>

<b>work at leader with leaders at different levels,</b>

<b>I want to say I teach leadership for master's</b>

<b>students at UNC Chapel Hill. And I always tell</b>

<b>my students, everyone is a leader at their level,</b>

<b>because we need good leadership. And we need good</b>

<b>followership as well. We don't often learn</b>

<b>about followership, ethical followership, because it</b>

<b>takes leaders and followers to really create good</b>

<b>leadership, and that everyone's a leader. And so I</b>

<b>do leadership coaching and development at these</b>

<b>different levels, either for more seasoned leaders</b>

<b>or for emerging leaders, individually, sometimes</b>

<b>in teams or pairs, if I have leaders who are at</b>

<b>the same level, it's helpful for them to have</b>

<b>individual leadership as well, coaching as well</b>

<b>as group coaching, or again, in teams. And I find</b>

<b>that really rewarding because so many of us have</b>

<b>internalized those messages. So people are</b>

<b>dealing with imposter syndrome, or imposter systems.</b>

<b>And these negative self talk, these ways that we</b>

<b>have internalized these negative messages about</b>

<b>ourselves that are not true, but they are</b>

<b>messages that we've, again, heard and internalized from</b>

<b>outside systems. And so helping leaders understand</b>

<b>what are those internalized messages, and replace</b>

<b>them with accurate messages, and then act on that</b>

<b>and really be able to blossom into the leaders they</b>

<b>were meant to be is a beautiful process. And then</b>

<b>working with teams in that way, where I've always</b>

<b>been drawn to stigmatized topics, probably</b>

<b>because of being a queer lesbian, and because of being</b>

<b>attuned to systemic racism from a young age.</b>

<b>And so when teams or leaders come to me and say,</b>

<b>we're having a lot of challenges, there's a lack of</b>

<b>trust, our culture, we've got some culture issues,</b>

<b>we've got people who are not on the same page,</b>

<b>we don't have a shared vision or goal. I love that</b>

<b>because - I do! It's juicy, right? It's juicy. I</b>

<b>like problem solving. And my father was a problem</b>

<b>solver as an executive. So I think growing up, we</b>

<b>heard a lot of his stories. And, and I like when</b>

<b>I don't like that people have the problems,</b>

<b>but it's very satisfying to come in and be that</b>

<b>active listener to talk with individuals</b>

<b>privately and really hear, you know, the real story about</b>

<b>this leader thinks they're so inclusive, but they</b>

<b>don't listen, they interrupt, they, you know, they</b>

<b>don't respond well when we propose alternative</b>

<b>ideas - people's self perception, and then the</b>

<b>perception of their teams are often quite</b>

<b>different. And it's important for me to be able to hear</b>

<b>honestly from their team members about what their</b>

<b>experiences are, and then bring that to the leader</b>

<b>privately and provide private supportive</b>

<b>coaching to them to say, there's some ways that you can</b>

<b>improve your leadership, it's going to make</b>

<b>you better, it's going to make your team and your</b>

<b>organizations better. That's immensely</b>

<b>satisfying. What kind of like, without naming names, like,</b>

<b>what are some of the messages that you've</b>

<b>heard back like, you know, I like I found myself,</b>

<b>blah, blah, blah? From the leadership, the</b>

<b>leaders that I've coached? When they have a breakthrough. Yeah. Oh, yeah. I</b>

<b>mean, I've, so one person I'm working with now is</b>

<b>a black woman leader, and so incredibly capable,</b>

<b>so skilled, and so successful when I asked her to</b>

<b>tell me a story about what she's doing on her team,</b>

<b>what she's doing in her work out in the world. And</b>

<b>she tells me these incredible stories. And then I</b>

<b>hear what her direct boss, who's very high up</b>

<b>in the organization is saying to her, and there's</b>

<b>just a total mismatch that they are not seeing</b>

<b>the leader who she really is. And she's internalized</b>

<b>that. So helping is when she first came to me,</b>

<b>she said, "I feel stuck. I feel unseen, unheard,</b>

<b>I feel like my value really, like they're not</b>

<b>seeing the leader who I really am." And I agree</b>

<b>with her. And so if we can work on her,</b>

<b>helping to shape, manage up and helping to shape the</b>

<b>environment, if it's not the right environment,</b>

<b>sometimes it means that it's time for a change.</b>

<b>And then give working with that person to help</b>

<b>them learn the confidence to gain the confidence</b>

<b>and the accurate self-understanding and the</b>

<b>recognition that there's, they have so many</b>

<b>more opportunities that they're not stuck is</b>

<b>just, again, incredibly gratifying. And then</b>

<b>working with a pair of emerging leaders who are</b>

<b>in a this is a different organization, a global</b>

<b>organization that works on, broadly, on</b>

<b>international development and evaluation. And, and that they</b>

<b>these pair of leaders were emerging and were</b>

<b>wanting to be - their senior leadership wisely</b>

<b>recognized the importance of investing in leaders</b>

<b>in their leadership to help them develop them into</b>

<b>more senior leaders. And their team was lacking</b>

<b>in some psychological safety. Again, the senior</b>

<b>leadership had good intentions. They had some</b>

<b>good practices, but there were things they were doing</b>

<b>where the team wasn't feeling trusted fully to</b>

<b>be in charge that there was a little micromanaging</b>

<b>happening. And, and so just helping to coach</b>

<b>them at again, the senior leaders and the emerging</b>

<b>leaders on how to create more psychological</b>

<b>safety on their team, how to trust their emerging</b>

<b>leaders to take on more and more</b>

<b>responsibility while providing some safeguards so that they</b>

<b>had some support and mentorship. There's a whole</b>

<b>process we go through to help develop these teams</b>

<b>and organizations. Listening to the types of,</b>

<b>you know, sticking points for the companies,</b>

<b>the people that you're working for, really is</b>

<b>very eye opening to me, because you're able to</b>

<b>vocalize and put words to things that I sort of</b>

<b>just are watching and trying to put together my</b>

<b>own head about what's happening. And so I find</b>

<b>it amazing that you really do have a full-on grasp</b>

<b>and they're helping me just sitting here</b>

<b>think about how to weave a lot of this in and what</b>

<b>challenges are actually there. So thank you. Sure, my</b>

<b>pleasure. I appreciate that. Maybe we could go back to that issue of</b>

<b>representation and inclusion that you were asking</b>

<b>about. And so for me, it wasn't a moment, but just</b>

<b>recognizing the data for one thing. I take a real</b>

<b>data-driven approach and also a really customized</b>

<b>approach. So every organization is different</b>

<b>and unique and it also there are a lot of similar</b>

<b>patterns. So it's kind of a both/and. And that's</b>

<b>where the strategic assessment comes in. And that</b>

<b>could be a rapid assessment or it could be a</b>

<b>more comprehensive assessment. To understand in your</b>

<b>organization what are the particular dynamics,</b>

<b>because we have to understand what the problems</b>

<b>are before we can develop appropriate solutions.</b>

<b>How often do people come in with a solution and</b>

<b>they really haven't done their work to understand</b>

<b>what the problems are. I have a hammer. Who's the</b>

<b>nail? Yeah, exactly. I'm going to look around for</b>

<b>this nail. So that's not we do a highly customized</b>

<b>work. Again, we have our own systems and</b>

<b>processes and forms and you know templates that we use,</b>

<b>but every organization is unique. So we're</b>

<b>going to understand the unique dynamics in that</b>

<b>organization and then we're going to develop</b>

<b>a really tailored customized solution for each</b>

<b>organization. And we know though that when we</b>

<b>look at the data both nationally and globally,</b>

<b>that senior leadership be it C-suite, boards of</b>

<b>directors, by and large are not representative of</b>

<b>the diversity in their organizations, let alone</b>

<b>of their constituents or their stakeholders that</b>

<b>they're aiming to serve. And that is a problem and</b>

<b>representation does matter.</b>

<b>This is why this whole anti-DEI war that the ultra-right conservative wings have</b>

<b>been successfully waging are really</b>

<b>concerning to me because they've been unfortunately</b>

<b>extremely effective in their messaging. This whole</b>

<b>anti-woke and just dismissing the incredibly</b>

<b>important strategic work of diversity, equity,</b>

<b>and inclusion as though we're being "woke" and we're</b>

<b>wrecking what system is in place. And this illusion</b>

<b>of pitting diversity against meritocracy, which</b>

<b>in and of itself is highly problematic because too</b>

<b>often I have leaders, often predominantly white</b>

<b>leaders who will say to me, "Well, yes, we value</b>

<b>diversity, but not at the expense of merit and</b>

<b>excellence." And then I come back and ask them,</b>

<b>"Why would you assume that having a more</b>

<b>diverse leadership team, a more diverse organization,</b>

<b>would necessarily reduce your merit or your</b>

<b>excellence?" Right. Are you assuming... So there</b>

<b>are a couple of things in that. One is this</b>

<b>assumption that predominantly white people have</b>

<b>inherently more merit. Very few people, some</b>

<b>people would say that, very few people would say</b>

<b>that consciously, but isn't that the assumption</b>

<b>you're making that if you work to increase the</b>

<b>diversity of your leadership team, that you</b>

<b>would necessarily have to sacrifice excellence? Isn't</b>

<b>that what? I know. And when you said your</b>

<b>biases, everybody had biases. Yes, we all do.</b>

<b>But you don't realize it's a bias until you have</b>

<b>to come up against... because if you're hearing</b>

<b>all of those things back, you've already decided</b>

<b>what the merit is, where we're evaluating, what</b>

<b>everything is. What the default is... And you never saw</b>

<b>outside of that. Exactly. And that's the big thing</b>

<b>when you said that, it was like, because you</b>

<b>got great training at a very young age of being</b>

<b>questioned. And then of course, that pushed</b>

<b>you into data because as a child, you're going,</b>

<b>"Oh, well, how do I say?" And you've got to</b>

<b>weigh everything, data driven. And so that...</b>

<b>I mean, how could you go into anything else?</b>

<b>It's pretty much... I do feel chosen for this work.</b>

<b>I mean, and it becomes a very... What did you</b>

<b>call it? Zone of genius! Your zone of genius.</b>

<b>It's genius. I mean, and that you get jazzed by</b>

<b>it. I mean, like right now, it's like when you</b>

<b>were saying, like you hear all these problems,</b>

<b>"Oh, we're about to come to you with these are our</b>

<b>issues." And it's like, "Oh, I know exactly where</b>

<b>we're going. We're going to... I can help you with</b>

<b>this." Where instead of right now being depressed</b>

<b>about things, it's like, it's also just the thing</b>

<b>of saying, well, if people are reaching out,</b>

<b>that's great on its own because you're looking outside.</b>

<b>Yeah. What were you going to say? No, go ahead.</b>

<b>No, go ahead. Well, people at different levels are</b>

<b>reaching out. And so, and that's where sometimes</b>

<b>it is the senior leadership. And then sometimes</b>

<b>it's more middle management who are recognizing</b>

<b>what's happening. Which that's fantastic. Yeah,</b>

<b>it's fantastic. And it's challenging because I</b>

<b>have to then work with the senior leadership</b>

<b>to help them understand. And breaking through a</b>

<b>lot of those barriers where, again, those false</b>

<b>messages of, "If I'm biased, then I'm a bad</b>

<b>person. If my senior leadership team is not currently as</b>

<b>diverse as it needs to be, then I must have done</b>

<b>something wrong to allow us to get here. I'm not</b>

<b>a racist. I'm not a sexist." All these messages,</b>

<b>and that's where the anti-woke campaign and the</b>

<b>anti-DEI campaigns are so dangerous because</b>

<b>they're perpetuating all these false messages about what</b>

<b>diversity, equity, inclusion, belonging work are,</b>

<b>the strategies are, and playing into people's fears</b>

<b>and people's sense of, "But I'm a good person."</b>

<b>And so I can assure them, "You are a good person.</b>

<b>You're a good person who is flawed as we all</b>

<b>are, as deeply imperfect humans. And you have been</b>

<b>working out of these assumptions, out of</b>

<b>these biases that we all have. And so let's work</b>

<b>together to learn what those are, to unlearn</b>

<b>those, and to practice something different."</b>

<b>It takes a lot of courage. It does. It does.</b>

<b>And so there we do the six signature traits of</b>

<b>inclusive leadership, which Deloitte Consulting</b>

<b>advanced. And so one of those elements of inclusive</b>

<b>leadership is courage, because you are bucking the</b>

<b>status quo. You're doing a lot of self-examination.</b>

<b>Yeah, you're pointing here. It is, and involves</b>

<b>a lot of self-work. I will say we've been very</b>

<b>successful. There are times where the leaders</b>

<b>that we're working with falter in their courage,</b>

<b>and we need to really bolster them, because it's</b>

<b>a lot to take this on. And even those leaders who</b>

<b>come to us and say, "We want you to help us, help</b>

<b>make us better, because we recognize that when we</b>

<b>can really embrace diversity, when we can</b>

<b>really advance inclusion and belonging so that people</b>

<b>can flourish," because let's face it, as humans,</b>

<b>we're wired for connection. We're wired for belonging.</b>

<b>Community.</b>

<b>Yes, community. It's literally how we're</b>

<b>wired as beings. Not only humans, other creatures,</b>

<b>are wired for belonging. We want to belong to</b>

<b>our family systems. We want to belong to our</b>

<b>organizational systems. So we know that to</b>

<b>flourish, people need that. I just went to a leadership</b>

<b>summit yesterday, forum, and the speaker was</b>

<b>talking about dignity, which was very informative,</b>

<b>around understanding that we all have an</b>

<b>inherent dignity, and that we often unintentionally will</b>

<b>breach others' dignity. And it's not something we</b>

<b>can't take away anyone's dignity, because that's</b>

<b>inherent. It's there. It's inherent to who we are, but we can</b>

<b>definitely harm others' dignity. And that is a key</b>

<b>piece in the organization, too. Some people see</b>

<b>this as a nice to have, not as - but it's not. It's mission</b>

<b>critical. It's mission critical. If you want</b>

<b>to succeed, the evidence on advancing diversity,</b>

<b>equity, inclusion in organizations is clear and</b>

<b>overwhelming. Overwhelming. Those organizations</b>

<b>that have diverse and inclusive and</b>

<b>representative senior leadership outperform those that don't.</b>

<b>Economic and socially. That's right. Spiritually,</b>

<b>if you will. Yeah, exactly. There is a spiritual</b>

<b>element to this as well. And this is</b>

<b>internal work, both individually, interpersonally,</b>

<b>intersystems, like you said, within the</b>

<b>organization. We do also look at their external</b>

<b>offerings, their programs, their services, what</b>

<b>they're offering out in the world, and whether</b>

<b>those are in alignment. So another key, I'd say</b>

<b>in addition to equity and transformation, another</b>

<b>key theme for me is around alignment. And as</b>

<b>someone who practices mindfulness and meditation</b>

<b>and yoga, also knowing that when we as individuals are operating in alignment,</b>

<b>we're in a place of peace. We're really</b>

<b>operating with a sense of peace and well-being. And that</b>

<b>extends up to the organizational level, too.</b>

<b>I work with those leaders to help them clarify</b>

<b>and then make adjustments to operate in</b>

<b>alignment with their mission, vision, values,</b>

<b>policy, systems, and structures for a better</b>

<b>world. I love all that. And I love that you're</b>

<b>doing that. I know. It's like, yeah, it's like</b>

<b>breathing for a person. I know. I'm like, that's</b>

<b>a heavy weight. I'm glad that you're out there.</b>

<b>So we want to circle back a little bit and talk</b>

<b>about media and using media and where</b>

<b>representation is. How do you use media in what you do?</b>

<b>Yeah, a number of ways. So there's a whole</b>

<b>methodology that I developed when I was at</b>

<b>Ipas and I now do on a consulting basis,</b>

<b>which is called "Values Clarification for Action and</b>

<b>Transformation." And so it's a whole methodology</b>

<b>that I and others developed around helping people</b>

<b>clarify their deeply held values and then</b>

<b>understand the realities of how systems are</b>

<b>operating in the world and then act in alignment</b>

<b>with those values. It's a very powerful process</b>

<b>that has a lot of applications. I developed</b>

<b>it at Ipas for work around abortion and sexual</b>

<b>reproductive health and rights to help health</b>

<b>care providers, to help policymakers, to help</b>

<b>community members, people in the legal system</b>

<b>understand what their values are and then what</b>

<b>the realities are for women and girls and</b>

<b>people with uteruses in their country or in their</b>

<b>communities who are needing access to safe and</b>

<b>healthy abortion care, which is a human right and</b>

<b>is part of a health system. Yes. Health is a human</b>

<b>right. And then to act in alignment with that.</b>

<b>And so I developed it around abortion care, but</b>

<b>it's really applicable in many, many different</b>

<b>ways. So we can apply it to immigration, we</b>

<b>could apply it to different policies. And so we use</b>

<b>storytelling in that I will show a</b>

<b>documentary film that's a short film. I use what I call,</b>

<b>I'll use something to spark dialogue. And so that</b>

<b>could be a headline from a news clip, could be a</b>

<b>photo, a very evocative photo. It could be a</b>

<b>video clip that quickly kind of succinctly summarizes</b>

<b>the problem. And then I engage them in deep</b>

<b>reflection and dialogue and then moving them</b>

<b>towards action based on that. So it's really</b>

<b>to, media is so important to help us connect on a</b>

<b>human level. There's a documentary film clip that</b>

<b>I use that was made in Ethiopia, but I've used</b>

<b>it all over the world. And I tested it to see</b>

<b>different audiences in Asia and Latin America,</b>

<b>different continents. Do you resonate with these</b>

<b>girls, with these women? Do you see yourself in</b>

<b>them with these healthcare providers? And</b>

<b>universally people said yes, the story is universal.</b>

<b>The particulars are particular to this town in</b>

<b>Ethiopia. But that's the power of art and media</b>

<b>and storytelling. Storytelling. You know,</b>

<b>paintings, I love using art to help people connect with each</b>

<b>other with with artists with humanity, and then</b>

<b>apply that in a very practical way of what does</b>

<b>this mean about ourselves? What does this</b>

<b>mean for our work and practices in the world?</b>

<b>I would love to get the short list of what media</b>

<b>you have collected for your, for this activity,</b>

<b>because I would just love to see what you've got</b>

<b>in the in the bucket. Yeah. So when you do some</b>

<b>of the calls and stuff, do you do any of the</b>

<b>live video or like a streaming chat, video chats and that sort of thing?</b>

<b>I have done some, yeah, LinkedIn lives and</b>

<b>Facebook and Instagram lives. I'd like to do</b>

<b>more of that. Yeah, I think it would be</b>

<b>extremely interesting to me. So when you do that,</b>

<b>include me in your announcements, and we</b>

<b>will absolutely push people in that direction.</b>

<b>Well, you all could help me, I'm sure. Oh, yes, we have the capacity to assist.</b>

<b>What's that? It's like cracking. It's like</b>

<b>the excitement for me is when you said about the</b>

<b>cracking of actually thinking and</b>

<b>questioning. Yeah. Right. It's like, that's like, my mom,</b>

<b>you know, she attributed, her father invested</b>

<b>in the first television that anybody had, right,</b>

<b>in their area. And she watched it. And it put</b>

<b>her up against all of the things that she had</b>

<b>been taught by her parents. Yeah. And so all</b>

<b>of a sudden, she's like, well, how as, you know,</b>

<b>she was a good Catholic schoolgirl. And it's like, how could she, she felt like</b>

<b>there should later, she was like, you, a woman</b>

<b>should have the right to whatever she chooses.</b>

<b>How do I align that and reconcile it? And she did.</b>

<b>And she could explain it to people. And she could</b>

<b>say, look, I for myself probably would never</b>

<b>choose that. But there's no way I'm going to tell</b>

<b>another woman. Right. And I will go out and I</b>

<b>will march and I will defend that. Yeah, absolutely.</b>

<b>And so that, you know, figuring out on their own</b>

<b>when they're not bobbing around and hearing the</b>

<b>same thing said back to them, cracking outside of</b>

<b>that and hearing a small voice that helps you start</b>

<b>going, well, is that a fact? Should I question?</b>

<b>Is being a woke, a bad thing? Right. So let me,</b>

<b>let me just add, you know, this is sparking an</b>

<b>idea for me in the fact that not just representation</b>

<b>about, you know, the color of our skin or</b>

<b>the, you know, where we're originating from,</b>

<b>but the idea that we are representing a challenge</b>

<b>to your bias. Because I think, you know, that can</b>

<b>be more intentional in what we put out and what</b>

<b>we talk about. Right. You have really helped me</b>

<b>start thinking a lot of different ways. So this</b>

<b>has been an amazing conversation. Yeah. I mean,</b>

<b>I'm very attuned to that when now when I consume</b>

<b>media, whether it is images or videos or stories,</b>

<b>I do automatically think about representation.</b>

<b>You know, you look at advertisements and you look</b>

<b>at if they have a group of people, do they</b>

<b>center the white person or do they have a person</b>

<b>of color in the middle? Is the white person</b>

<b>more to the side? Gender representation, you know,</b>

<b>these are again, all these ways that biases are</b>

<b>so embedded in how we think and then the products</b>

<b>we create. And so being more intentional is</b>

<b>incredibly important. And it also, it does make</b>

<b>the world a better place knowing that people,</b>

<b>because we know the importance of seeing ourselves</b>

<b>represented in these different positions. So</b>

<b>for, you know, young people to see themselves</b>

<b>represented in senior leadership in very visible</b>

<b>and clear ways is incredibly important for people</b>

<b>in organizations to see themselves represented</b>

<b>and see their leadership and know this is possible.</b>

<b>Yes. Yeah, it's incredibly important. And</b>

<b>that's one of the things that we want to advocate</b>

<b>for LGBTQ and people of color who are leaders</b>

<b>to step in front of the camera because it's not</b>

<b>just there's more, you're, you're more</b>

<b>representing. Yeah, exactly. It's a different representation</b>

<b>that happens. And so we are advocates for exactly</b>

<b>that. Which is so beautiful that you all are doing</b>

<b>this. And I do work, I serve on the board of my</b>

<b>alum, Duke and UNC. I'm very involved in the alum</b>

<b>associations because it's so important for</b>

<b>students to see queer alum who are flourishing</b>

<b>and thriving out in the world. And they have a</b>

<b>lot of questions with your own company, with our</b>

<b>own company. Exactly. That we can, you can found</b>

<b>and run a successful company, you can be a business</b>

<b>leader, you can be out and proud. Because</b>

<b>that's a lot of the questions students are asking is,</b>

<b>can I be out in the workplace professionally? Can</b>

<b>I found and run a business? Can I be a leader in</b>

<b>an organization and be out as a queer LGBTQ plus</b>

<b>person? And yes, yes, you can. And there's more,</b>

<b>I mean, there's context and globally and</b>

<b>different cultural contexts, there are a lot of nuances to</b>

<b>that. And yes, so it's so it is important for us</b>

<b>to be a role model, be a mentor, and also to engage</b>

<b>in intergenerational learning, which I find,</b>

<b>that's why I love teaching and working with my students</b>

<b>and younger generations, because there's so much we</b>

<b>can learn. And I do work a lot on intergenerational</b>

<b>conflicts, and resolution and relationships in</b>

<b>the workplace, because we have over five generations</b>

<b>in the workplace for the first time ever, five</b>

<b>generations in the workplace. And that's a go-to</b>

<b>for people being argumentative and going like,</b>

<b>Oh, well, they're coming in and they're, you know,</b>

<b>let me all these gens, let me put them under what</b>

<b>gen they are. Exactly. And that'll either excuse</b>

<b>their behavior or yeah, explain instead of</b>

<b>recognizing how much we have to learn from each</b>

<b>other. And it happens in every direction.</b>

<b>Sometimes younger people may dismiss older people's</b>

<b>contributions thinking, what do you know, that's</b>

<b>not how we do it anymore. "Ok Boomer." Yeah, older people can</b>

<b>dismiss younger people saying like, Oh, you're</b>

<b>just a gen X, whatever, or gen Z, what do you know? But there's</b>

<b>so much learning we have, why wouldn't we want to</b>

<b>learn from each other? Right. It's like you're running around</b>

<b>in the same group and it's like, Oh, you can have</b>

<b>access to someone else's brain who doesn't think</b>

<b>like yours at all. Yeah, exactly. And that's</b>

<b>that's that. Yeah, it's critical. There's a whole thing</b>

<b>there, right? Yeah, yeah. Well, you know, time</b>

<b>goes by so fast. We're on here having a good time. And</b>

<b>we love having a chance to introduce our audience</b>

<b>to amazing, capable business owners that show up</b>

<b>authentically that are making a difference,</b>

<b>not just for us here in the States, but globally.</b>

<b>We want to thank you for coming to Change the</b>

<b>Reel. Yeah, thank you so much. It's really my pleasure.</b>

<b>And I hope folks can reach out to us at</b>

<b>[email protected]. Yeah. So where can we see you</b>

<b>coming up in the near future? I know you do</b>

<b>webinars. Yeah, we do virtual webinars and workshops</b>

<b>in-person trainings and workshops as well. And</b>

<b>of course, consulting and coaching. So really</b>

<b>encourage people to reach out to us at</b>

<b>[email protected]. [email protected].</b>

<b>And that'll be in the show notes. LinkedIn and</b>

<b>also social media. We always promote our upcoming</b>

<b>events. And so reach out for leadership coaching,</b>

<b>for organizational consulting, training, for webinars,</b>

<b>workshops, in-person, virtual, for leadership</b>

<b>team retreats, etc. To help make the world a better place.</b>

<b>For a better world. We appreciate you, Katherine.</b>

<b>My pleasure. We love this. Yeah. And we want to</b>

<b>thank you for tuning in to our channel. Thank you.</b>

<b>That's it for this episode of Change the Reel.</b>

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<b>Check the show notes for links.</b>

<b>And if you're done with DIY and ready to record something that matters,</b>

<b>in a safe inclusive space,</b> <b>check out our studio</b>

<b>check out our studio at VelasquezMedia.com. Remember, representation starts here.</b>

<b>¡Hasta Pronto! See you soon!</b>