How can entrepreneurs create meaningful change while staying true to their purpose? What does it take to measure the impact that resonates with communities? Welcome to the DO GOOD X podcast, a space where purpose meets action. Today hosts Kimberly Danielle and Stephen Lewis, engage with Amelia Conrad, a seasoned development expert whose work redefines how to approach social impact. From her reflections on global inequities and positionality to her strategies for measuring meaningful impact, Amelia offers a roadmap for entrepreneurs seeking to create systemic equity. Expect a candid conversation about listening deeply, embracing cultural context, and crafting data storytelling that inspires—perfect for anyone committed to doing good while doing business.

IN THIS EPISODE:

• (00:00) Intro: Today’s Topic
• (03:18) Amelia shares how her global experiences shape her approach to social impact
• (09:10) Definition of social impact, short-term impact, focusing on individual changes versus long-term impact targeting systemic equity and policy shifts
• (13:09) The importance of addressing unintended impact and how measurements can go wrong
• (16:53) Discussion of qualitative data and quantitative data collection
• (25:48) Co-creating impact measurement frameworks with stakeholders to align with community needs
• (30:05) Data storytelling to humanize impact communication, using narratives and clear data visualization for stakeholder engagement
• (32:51) Resource Roundup

KEY TAKEAWAYS:

• Entrepreneurs can drive social impact by grounding their work in cultural context and positionality, ensuring that their strategies reflect community needs and address global inequities. 
• Effective impact measurement requires balancing qualitative data and quantitative data to uncover root causes and address unintended impact, avoiding vanity metrics for authentic insights.
• Co-creating impact measurement frameworks with stakeholders, utilizing data storytelling and clear data visualization, fosters stakeholder engagement and aligns efforts with community-driven systemic equity.

RESOURCES:

DO GOOD X - Website

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DO GOOD X - LinkedIn

DO GOOD X - YouTube

DO GOOD X - Spotify

DO GOOD X -  Instagram

Frontier Design

The Data Storyteller's Handbook: How to create business impact using data storytelling

Amelia Conrad | LinkedIn

BIOGRAPHY:

Amelia Conrad, a development practitioner, specializes in Impact Measurement and research, helping organizations enhance Social Impact through data-driven decisions. At Frontier, she supports Fortune 500 companies, foundations, and nonprofits in developing systems to measure and communicate their impact, with a focus on women, girls, and vulnerable populations. Her work spans sub-Saharan Africa, Latin America, Asia, and the U.S., addressing women’s empowerment, gender-based violence, and more. Previously, at Emory University, she led studies funded by organizations such as the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation, with publications in top-tier journals. Amelia holds a Master’s in Development Practice from Emory and a B.A. from Tulane and was named to Emory’s 40 Under 40 in 2024.

Entrepreneurs, Social Impact, Impact Measurement, Qualitative Data, Data Visualization, Greater Good, Community Accountability, Systemic Equity, Policy Shifts, Unintended Impact, Co-Creating Frameworks, Vanity Metrics, Data Storytelling, Humanize Data, Positionality, Cultural Context, Theory Of Change, Stakeholder Engagement, Root Causes, Intersectionality, Narrative Building

[00:00:30] Now, your hosts,

[00:01:01] And as always here with Steven. Hey, Steven.

[00:01:39] So we have someone who has wisdom. Experience and insight that can help entrepreneurs be thoughtful and intentional about how to approach social impact in doing good. So I'd like to introduce you to today's guest, Amelia Conrad. She is a development [00:02:00] practitioner and researcher with deep expertise in impact measurement and evaluation at Frontier.

[00:02:36] Sexual and gender-based violence, water and sanitation, child and forced labor, food insecurity, and economic opportunity. Amir has also published in top journals like the uh, Lancet Global Health and BMJ Open. She holds a master's in development practice from Emory University and was recently named Emory's 40 [00:03:00] under 40 Lists.

[00:03:04] Amelia Conrad: Thanks so much. Happy to be here and thank you for that Warm welcome.

[00:03:19] Amelia Conrad: Yeah, that's a really good question and I will try not to go on and on because there are so many ways in which it's, it's influenced how I approach my work and, and just my, my place in the world.

[00:04:00] I credit that to my parents. I credit that to a lot of good books. Um, and so I went to to college in New Orleans and then studied abroad in Lima, Peru. That was my first real in-depth experience abroad. Um, and I ended up studying international development, doing a master's in development practice, as you mentioned.

[00:04:46] South America. Um, folks were always gracious and warm, but they were critical of the role. You know, the US has played a really complicated role in the history of South America, has been complicit in a lot of not so good things. [00:05:00] And I appreciated how in the classes I was enrolled in at the university and the nonprofits I worked with folks weren't, you know, they questioned my role and they questioned the role of my government in their countries.

[00:05:44] I saw a lot of. Us European based folks, um, getting positions that there were perfectly qualified local folks, um, and they were being paid better. They were being treated with greater respect and recognition. And it, it really made me [00:06:00] be more reflective than I maybe had been previously. And think about what the right role was for me, you know, at that time in my life.

[00:06:33] And fortunately, I've had some opportunities to do so in ways that felt. Appropriate for my role, for my position in the world. So I think that's a huge one, is just thinking about how our, our various intersecting identities influence our, our role and how we move through the world. Um, another big one for me in terms of how that work abroad has influenced my perspective, I think is just learning that there is always, or [00:07:00] almost always, a rationale and a reason for why things are done the way they're done.

[00:07:23] People, the world around are creative, they're problem solvers. They're going to find a way even with limited resources. And so that's often the driver behind why things maybe are done a little bit differently than. Then again, the right way to do them. So I think those experiences taught me to get really curious, to ask why, to dig deeper, to understand root causes, because you know, it's almost never a symbol as just coming in with a big splashy solution and solving a problem.

[00:08:20] I think working in resource constrained settings really led me to find a lot of flexibility, adaptability, creativity to solve challenges, and to to get things done. I think it encouraged me to let go of the perfect sometimes and focus on the good, and focus on what is possible even in the light of constraints and that.

[00:08:53] Stephen: So Amelia, you know, if, if my, for the listeners who are listening in on this, they say, but, so I hear how it has [00:09:00] shaped you, but can, can you gimme a definition?

[00:09:10] Amelia Conrad: I, there are probably a thousand definitions out there the way I think about it. So my own definition is really the kind of broad, multi-sectoral work that is aimed to drive towards some greater good and to think about something beyond profit and shareholders, and to really say, what is our accountability to community to this world that we live in.

[00:09:59] [00:10:00] What types of impact do you think is actually achievable short term versus long term? Uh, yeah, we'll just, I'll just stop there.

[00:10:28] And we're often defining short-term, long-term impact. And I think where we are thinking about short-term, often we're talking about individual level changes or maybe organizational level changes. Um, whereas with some of the long-term impact, we're focused more on, on systems, on kind of the, the vision.

[00:11:12] I think a big thing that I. It's kind of a, a healthy tension. I think in a lot of the work that I do, in a lot of the work I support with my clients is balancing humility and vision. Um, I think the humility to say, you know, we can't solve everything and maybe in the near term we can only create these more incremental changes.

[00:11:57] Um. I think [00:12:00] you have to be able to hold that vision and to inspire others with that vision in order to make sure that that more near term impact is really leading you to that, that longer term vision. Otherwise, I think folks get distracted and it's easier to focus on just, you know, what's going to look good in the near term.

[00:12:38] Kimberly: I wanna follow up just real quick. Um, something that Stephen and I, we have talked about is the unintended impact that ha, that can happen. So when we're talking about organizations or entrepreneurs, you know, they have their intended impact that they wanna make, and, you know, creating the strategy or frameworks for measuring that.

[00:13:09] Amelia Conrad: Yeah. Yeah, I mean, it is not an easy thing to do. Um, I think, you know, we talk about both positive and negative externalities. You know, it could be unintended positive things that are happening, and you wanna get credit for them when you're helping to foster them.

[00:13:56] Gathering data that reinforces what you already know, but to [00:14:00] understand more broadly what happened, why it happened, and and see some of those externalities. I think the other piece to me is really about you test and you learn and you test and you learn and you fail and try again. And I think that willingness to take kind of an experimenter's mindset to the work to an extent and.

[00:14:31] Stephen: So let me ask you, what do social entrepreneurs or organizations often get wrong when trying to measure social impact?

[00:15:00] They wanna be a part of something positive. And so I think that. The gaps I see are not due to a lack of good intent. I think often they're limited by resources, they're limited by capacity. Maybe they have, you know, their board has given them a headcount limit and they can't bring in someone with the right skillset.

[00:15:43] Folks sometimes shy away from some of the more interesting data that's really going to help them learn and grow and continuously improve. And so it's easier, it's safer, it's less risky to just focus on how many dollars did we give away, how many people attended our [00:16:00] programs? Um, rather than to dig into some of the data that is a little messier and that might not always tell a positive story, but might really help you learn and, and make improvements that are going to better meet your needs.

[00:16:42] It's often as kind of anecdotes, you know, this is a nice story to highlight and that's good. There's nothing wrong with that, but I think it's missing an opportunity to really dig deep. Qualitative data can be such a powerful way to really listen and to hear voices, um, that [00:17:00] maybe kind of missed or, or overshadowed by the numbers.

[00:17:23] So, that's a big one to me. That's something I do a lot of work with. Clients kind of upskill their, their teams and their systems to better collect and utilize that qualitative data. I think the last thing I'll say is just, there's always a concern about kind of the extractive nature of gathering data and evidence and the burden it can place on program participants or on nonprofits who are reporting into a funder or others.

[00:18:12] Um, and so I think a lot of it is just about constantly seeking to find the balance that works best for the various stakeholders that are part of your, your organization, and then to the extent possible, kind of reversing the extractive angle and sharing back. Hmm. So rather than only pulling data from participants, from, um, grantees playing it back and sharing some of the learnings and insights so that they can also benefit from the process that they've participated in.

[00:19:13] So I've just, yeah, I'd like you to talk a little bit about that, the tension, or at least you know, where the through line is between those two things.

[00:19:39] They highlight the good stuff. That's normal. I think there are, you know, good reasons for that. Um, but I think in a similar way that the splashing number of just, you know, we gave out $20 million. You can have the splashy story of that one really amazing transformational impact, and you might be not highlighting all the stories where it was like, we tried [00:20:00] this and it didn't work that well, or we had some unintended negative consequences, things like that.

[00:20:30] Navigate because there are so many stakeholders they're beholden to. But I think that in most cases, if you are working for real transformational systems level, change of any kind, attribution is almost impossible. Um, and contribution is really, you know, what you, you ought to be looking for and the story you ought to be telling because.

[00:21:11] You're only one part of that change. And I, I think of it like a tapestry where, you know, every funder, every nonprofit, every social impact organization is just one thread that's woven into that tapestry. And I think that belief that together we can create change is really important. Um, but I think it is hard because I think, you know, boards wanna hear, well what did this funding specifically change?

[00:22:01] But it's not all on us. And I don't know that. If any organization has perfectly navigated how to tell that story to stakeholders who don't have the. The patients really sit with the complexity of those big changes.

[00:22:29] So when it comes to social good and founders are thinking about tracking, designing, and tracking the impact. Over time, what, what advice do you have for them to ensure that they are tracking that over time?

[00:22:45] Kimberly: There's Or just

[00:22:47] Kimberly: Yeah. Or that too. Yeah. Because they stay in the game because they're not seeing, seeing those, they're seeing the return of their investment of time, money, energy, of their business.

[00:23:17] We're only here because of the folks who came before us, and our world is imperfect and it is broken and there are flaws, but it is also better for most of us than it was 50, a hundred, 200 years ago. Because of people who believed that it was worth their time worth, their sacrifice, worth the struggle and the trade offs they made to work for future generations.

[00:24:01] A theory of change and I, you know, some of us are more or less familiar with that concept, and it can sound really complex. It doesn't have to be. It's really about what is the change you're trying to create and why do you believe that what you're doing will contribute to that change or help spark that change?

[00:24:38] It enables a lot of different things. It enables strategic decision making that's aligned with that underlying theory. It enables measurement and tracking. So Kimberly, to your point, you can identify what are the incremental moments to say, okay, we're not gonna get all the way there in my lifetime or in the next 10 years, but.

[00:25:12] And I think that speaks to people. In a really emotionally resonant way that that can be compelling to funders and customers and beneficiaries alike.

[00:25:36] I'm thinking particularly, you know, in the disability community, they have this kind of famous quote, nothing for us without us is about us. So. Talk to us a little about the whole kind of co-creating a measurement framework.

[00:26:01] Um, and, and that's true of measurement frameworks. It's true of, you know, program design and, and so many other things. But I think in line with the quote you just said, Steven, I think to me it's about, I. Inviting people in to be co-authors in a story rather than casting them as characters that you're really inviting folks to be a part of.

[00:26:48] We all think we know certain things, but I think taking the time and using interviews, using focus groups, using other platforms, to really listen deeply to the folks that you're designing for [00:27:00] is critically important. And if nothing else, at least using that as a mechanism to let folks have a voice in decisions that are made about measurement or anything else is really valuable.

[00:27:32] Really committed to principles of anti-racism and equity. And so it was very important to them to take this co-creative approach. And they had given out an initial round of funding to like six or eight grantee organizations, not a huge number. And they said, as we define this measurement framework we're building, we want these grantees to have a voice in how it's designed.

[00:28:16] Their existing grantees that was aligned with the things that they really saw value in. And I think in taking those approaches, it's not only you know, the right thing to do, I think many of us are agreed that giving folks voice, helping distribute some of that power is really important. But it also can have really tangible benefits.

[00:29:01] And that in some cases have actually helped them tell their story more compellingly and unlock really large donations from, um, funders, including the McKinsey Scott Foundation, things like that. So I think that I. Recognizing again, not only morally maybe the right thing to do, but also I think there are really important benefits that can be realized through taking that co-creative approach.

[00:29:47] And so I'm curious, in the age, in the, in the advent, the coming of the age of AI and artificial intelligence, what are the most compelling ways that businesses can [00:30:00] communicate their impact to their stakeholders and their customers?

[00:30:15] But I think more broadly, whether you're using AI to help you do it or you're just using the human brain, I think the idea of data storytelling is really foundational. Um. So often I think we just splash up a bright shiny dashboard and some nice charts. Um, but I think really thinking about the stories that you're trying to tell, what is the purpose of, of the data?

[00:31:10] I. That helped to, you know, create composite sketches of real humans behind the data. Anything you can do to bring human voice, human emotion into the room I think is wonderful for empathy building. I think it is more resonant, it is more compelling, um, to the audience. The second thing I would say is to get really smart about data visualization or turn to people who are smarter than you about data visualization, which is something I do.

[00:32:00] Stephen: Are you sure?

[00:32:03] Um. I think just using, um, you know, really clear data visualizations that make sure to, you know, think about proportion and scale and labels and how they're going to be interpreted by your audience. And really at the heart of that is putting the user at the center really thinking about what that user needs, how they're going to read the data.

[00:32:40] Stephen: That's good. I mean, you, you can make data, say whatever you want it to say. Yeah. So that's an important point to remember. Yeah.

[00:33:07] Kimberly: Uh, so Amelia, for founders who are just starting to build their impact strategy, I mean, you've talked about so much and for someone new to this, it can seem very overwhelming.

[00:33:23] Amelia Conrad: Yeah, I mean, I would say that theory of change piece, and don't overcomplicate it. Grab a napkin, grab a little scrap of paper and write a simple statement. If I do this, then this happens. So that whatever that impact you're trying to create is, and I think if you can tell that one sentence story of what you're doing and how it contributes to the change you wanna see, that's powerful.

[00:33:59] Stephen: Are there [00:34:00] simple tools or guiding questions that can help a small team build meaningful impact lens, a meaningful impact lens into their work?

[00:34:32] So I think those why questions are critical. I think also for me, with my background intersectionality, um, credit to Kimberly Crenshaw is, you know, foundational to how I think about the world. And so I think for organizations of all types to really ask themselves. How is this impacting different groups, different people, different populations in different ways?

[00:35:17] Kimberly: You talked a little bit earlier about storytelling and, and how that can be beneficial when it's done meaningfully, intentionally. It's not just about the quantitative, it's also about the qualitative. Can you name a resource that can, can help to bridge the gap between storytelling and data and something that really helps founders and organizations communicate their impact in a more compelling, not just compelling, but meaningful way.

[00:35:43] Kimberly: vanity metrics or storytelling.

[00:36:05] Find tools within it that we can use with clients or within my team, um, to go that layer deeper and think about the, the stories and how data visualizations or narratives or numbers can support the story that we're trying to tell.

[00:36:27] And we hope that you are enjoying this conversation if you are looking for more resources and other conversations with. Experts in the field like Amelia. Head over to do good x.org and here you can explore our work and join the Do Good X LinkedIn group where you can connect with other entrepreneurs and also explore how you can continue to do good.

[00:37:20] What is the best piece of advice that you have received on your journey in social impact?

[00:37:41] And I'm always focused on what am I not doing well and could be doing better. And she said, you know, sometimes it's better to lean into your strengths and to try to maximize those than to work on addressing every gap because you're always gonna have gaps. Um, but if you can really identify your strengths and build on those, that's how [00:38:00] you can make your, you know, unique contribution to the world.

[00:38:04] Stephen: So what's one. Daily, weekly, or monthly practice that sets you up for success in your work?

[00:38:35] And so daily, it's like taking my dog for a walk. Um, it's getting outside in my garden, you know, weekly. It's making time for a phone call with my little sister and my parents and catching up with friends and community. So I think just recognizing the true value of those things, um, because otherwise it can get so easy to just focus on the to-do list.

[00:39:08] Kimberly: How has your faith shaped the way that you approach your work in social impact?

[00:39:20] Um, and although I, I'm not currently religious, it was really foundational to me to just be in a space where they. Took biblical teachings and really, I think, tried to apply them in the world and thinking about, you know, our neighbors are not just those who look like us or share our backgrounds. They are people of all walks of life, all faiths, and they're all welcome and deserve to be treated with respect and community.

[00:39:54] Stephen: How do you navigate, challenge and build your resilience?

[00:40:07] I know how, um, you know, being vulnerable, which is not something that comes easily to me. Um, but you have to be vulnerable and let others in, otherwise, you know, they, they aren't mind readers and they won't know what you need. And so that's a, a constant practice for me of getting better at being vulnerable and inviting others in for the love and support that.

[00:40:28] Kimberly: how much of your success do you attribute to your faith or the, the foundations of your values versus your own grit will and hustle?

[00:40:51] But really, um, the, the values of. Trying to do some good with the time that we have here, um, [00:41:00] has driven a lot of my career choices, has driven a lot of how I approach my work, and I think has helped me connect with. Clients and people across the world in, in the work that I do, because I think no matter what our faith is, um, most of us are, are trying to, you know, help our children, our families have better life, do some good in the world while we're here.

[00:41:26] Stephen: complete this sentence because of my social impact efforts. My clients and businesses and communities will be or are more able to,

[00:41:45] Um, and communities are, are better able to have their voices listened to. I think that's really, really important.

[00:42:27] So thank you.

[00:42:52] Especially for folks who may not be as familiar with strategies, frameworks, and approaching social impact, um, and measuring [00:43:00] it. And so thank you for that.

[00:43:05] Kimberly: All right, well you all who are listening in, we hope that you have written some notes.

[00:43:24] intro music: Thank you for listening to the Duke Good Ex Podcast. To continue the conversation or access our resources, visit www.dogoodx.org. Join us again for conversations that will nourish your soul, ignite your dreams. And empower you to build an impactful business, one intentional step at a time. Until then, keep striving, thriving, and doing good.