How to set up as a social enterprise with Traci Lewis

Traci is a social entrepreneur, trainer, facilitator and catalyst. She is co-founder and director of Catalyse Change CIC and also leads the Women in Sustainability Bristol hub. I'm lucky enough to know Traci through the School for Social Entrepreneurs, and I knew as soon as I met her that I wanted her to be a guest on this podcast to talk to us about getting started in social entrepreneurship.

The highlights

• I give an update on what's going to happen with this podcast over my maternity leave 00:22
• I introduce Traci and she tells us about who she is and who she helps 03:06
• Traci tells us about how her journey to becoming a social entrepreneur 06:17
• Traci talks about Catalyse Change 15:18
• We discuss funding a social enterprise 20:58
• Traci tells us where she got support when she was setting up 26:32
• Traci tells us the first few things we need to start thinking about to get set up as a social enterprise 27:52
• We discuss the legal side of running a social enterprise 33:49
• I ask Traci how somebody would know if social enterprise is the right route for them 39:07
• Traci tells us the first steps she would recommend 40:48
• Traci tells us where we can find her 44:03

Traci’s Links:

Websites: 

www.tracilewis.co.uk

https://catalysechange.com

LinkedIn: Traci Lewis

Twitter: @tracilewis79

Other Links:

The School for Social Entrepreneurs https://www.the-sse.org

How to Successfully Set Up and Grow a Social Enterprise Heidi L Fisher

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Social-Enterprise-successfully-social-enterprise/dp/0995748616

Start With Why Simon Sinek

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Start-Why-Leaders-Inspire-Everyone-ebook/dp/B005JZD3B4/

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I just wanted to give you a little update on what's going to happen with this podcast over my maternity leave, because if you've been listening for a while then you'll know that from October 14th I'm going to be on maternity leave, probably coming back at some point in January, but no specified dates yet. But fear not! This podcast is one of my favourite things to do and I really value you guys, as listeners. I don't think I tell you enough. I'm often told by people in my life that I'm not very good at giving compliments and I think that has translated into my podcasting, and I don't tell you guys how much I appreciate you as much as other podcasters do, and I really do though. And as I said, I love recording this podcast, I love writing the content for the podcast, and I love doing interviews. So the podcast shall continue. We've already recorded, in fact, most of the episodes that are going to go out across my maternity leave. However, there will be some breaks. So in order to make sure we're giving you content consistently, we've planned to take a few breaks of just a week or two weeks here and there, where we're going to have a little pause in the content, just so that we can keep up with ourselves and make sure it keeps going through the whole maternity leave period. So the best thing you can do to make sure that that doesn't disrupt you and that you don't miss any of the episodes we put out there is to make sure that you subscribe to this podcast. So whatever podcast app you use, whether it's Apple, Spotify, Google podcasts, or we're on Amazon now as well, you can click the subscribe button and this podcast will be delivered to you every week, every week that we put one out. So please do make sure that you're subscribed so that you don't miss any of the episodes that we do put out there. Another thing that I'd like to encourage you to do, if you haven't done it already, is please, please, please leave us a review. So you might have seen the podcast is starting to do quite well in some of the charts and we're picking up a bit of traction, which is amazing. But the way that Apple decides how many people get to see this podcast is by how many reviews it's got. So please, if you haven't done so yet, leaving us a review on Apple or wherever you listen to your podcasts, it really makes a big difference to how many people can find us. So I'd really appreciate it if you could put the word out there for me just by leaving us a quick review.

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TRANSCRIPT

SPEAKERS

Rosie Gilderthorp, Traci Lewis

Welcome to the Business of Psychology podcast, the show that helps you to reach more people, help more people and build the life you want to live by doing more than therapy.

Hello. And before we get into today's episode, I just wanted to give you a little update on what's going to happen with this podcast over my maternity leave, because if you've been listening for a while, then you'll know that from October 14th, I'm going to be on maternity leave, probably coming back at some point in January, but no specified dates yet. But fear not! This podcast is one of my favourite things to do and I really value you guys, as listeners. I don't think I tell you enough. I'm often told by people in my life that I'm not very good at giving compliments and I think that has translated into my podcasting, and I don't tell you guys how much I appreciate you as much as other podcasters do, and I really do though. And as I said, I love recording this podcast, I love writing the content for the podcast, and I love doing interviews. So the podcast shall continue. We've already recorded, in fact, most of the episodes that are going to go out across my maternity leave. However, there will be some breaks. So in order to make sure we're giving you content consistently, we've planned to take a few breaks of just a week or two weeks here and there, where we're going to have a little pause in the content, just so that we can keep up with ourselves and make sure it keeps going through the whole maternity leave period. So the best thing you can do to make sure that that doesn't disrupt you and that you don't miss any of the episodes we put out there is to make sure that you subscribe to this podcast. So whatever podcast app you use, whether it's Apple, Spotify, Google podcasts, or we're on Amazon now as well, you can click the subscribe button and this podcast will be delivered to you every week, every week that we put one out. So please do make sure that you're subscribed so that you don't miss any of the episodes that we do put out there. Another thing that I'd like to encourage you to do, if you haven't done it already, is please, please, please leave us a review. So you might have seen the podcast is starting to do quite well in some of the charts and we're picking up a bit of traction, which is amazing. But the way that Apple decides how many people get to see this podcast is by how many reviews it's got. So please, if you haven't done so yet, leaving us a review on Apple or wherever you listen to your podcasts, it really makes a big difference to how many people can find us. So I'd really appreciate it if you could put the word out there for me just by leaving us a quick review. All right on with the episode.

Today I'm with Traci Lewis. And I'm lucky enough to know Traci through the School for Social Entrepreneurs. And I knew as soon as I met her, that I wanted her to be a guest on this podcast, and I really wanted to lead a Do More Than Therapy masterclass. So I'm absolutely thrilled to have her here to talk to us about getting started in social entrepreneurship. So welcome to the podcast, Traci.

Oh, hello. Thank you very much for that lovely welcome.

So can we get started with you just letting us know a bit about who you are and who you help?

Yeah, no, absolutely. So I'm Traci, I live in Montpellier in Bristol, just by the lovely St Andrews Park. And I live here with my daughter Kira, who's 18. And I do a few different things. So I'm a social business consultant, so I run online courses and coaching, specifically for women who are in the process of setting up their own business or you know, looking at trying to take it to that next stage. I also run my own social enterprise, so that's how I've met you Rosie, through SSE doing the Trade Up programme also, because my social enterprise Catalyse Change, which I've been running now as co founder and director for the last five and a half years, is all about inspiring, empowering and skilling girls and young women as sustainability leaders and changemakers. And then in my spare time, I also lead the women in Sustainability Hub here in Bristol and also the, their Freelancer and Entrepreneur Hub. So I run a lot of different events and courses for women who are working for themselves or thinking about it.

I totally love the multi hyphenated life, as you know, at least three businesses going on there so busy, busy lady. But I was just wondering if you could talk to us a bit about your journey. Because we're gonna get into some practical steps that people need to take when they're setting up as a social enterprise. But I think, I suspect anyway, that some people listening to this might actually be social entrepreneurs and not know it. Because I know we've spoken in the past about the fact that when I started out in private practice, I always had this group of clients that I would see for a reduced rate. And I would use the money that I made from clients that pay my full rate in order to subsidise those sessions. But I never understood that that was a model of social entrepreneurship. I'd never heard that word before. I just thought, oh that's you know, what I want to do and was just doing it as a sole trader. And it wasn't until really, quite recently until I talked to Asha Patel, who I recorded a podcast with right back at the beginning of this podcast, probably about 18 months ago now, but I was like, I am a social entrepreneur. And that's how I, when I started to get involved with SSE and the trade up programme. So I think it'd be really helpful to hear about your journey, how you got started, because people might recognise a bit of themselves in it, I think. So how did it all begin?

Well, so, so much, I could say, where do I start? But yeah, I just wanted to pick up on that point. Yeah, absolutely. I think people get a little bit too hung up on, you know, what exactly is a social enterprise is a legal status of some sort. But it really isn't, you know, there's different legal structures that you can use, which we'll talk about later. But really, it's just very broadly about using business to change the world for the better. You know, to create social and environmental value and change. So obviously, so many of us are doing that through our work, through different products and services. So yeah, it's a very broad brush. And yeah, hopefully, then some of your listeners will start to identify that they are also social entrepreneurs through this podcast. I mean, I know that the first woman who really inspired me, and this is really going back now, so don't worry, I'm not going to go through my whole life step by step, I really did want to mention her because Anita Roddick, from The Body Shop. And, you know, I'd never heard of social enterprise before that, but it was so inspiring to me that you could run a business and have these amazing products, and yet, you know, they were doing these incredible campaigns and, you know, making fair trade very visible, and talking about how that, you know, the products that were being grown, you know, often by women and, you know, parts of the world where they wouldn't normally be making much money, they were actually, you know, helping them to have a livable income. So, you know, I just found her so inspiring. And then obviously, through the Big Issue as well, that I think came from The Body Shop Foundation. And so, yeah, I went out to Australia, and I really got involved in organic food and farming and permaculture, which is, again, you know, was sort of one of the early sort of practical applications of sustainability. And, you know, I suppose it just really inspired me out there because it's so incredibly beautiful. But that was the first time I really saw and witnessed, you know, real, you know, environmental degradation on a really, you know, vast level with virgin rainforests being deforested and plastic pollution. So you know, I got very inspired with practical solutions, but also seeing how important it was to do something about it. So I kind of brought that back to the UK, that passion, didn't even know if I could live in the UK anymore, but then discovered Bristol, and went and asked the Soil Association for a job. So they're a charity, but also a social business, making a difference around organic food and farming. So very early on as well, I was working for that, they're not for profit certification company, which was again, was working with businesses, and through the income that was coming in from certification fees and other consultancy, that was then going into the charity to raise awareness. So again, that was kind of one of my very sort of early experience with, you know, how social enterprise can work to have that, that real, you know, great social and environmental impact. And I ended up working for the Soil Association for 18 years. So incredible, really, but I went on a lovely journey with them, so not just here in Bristol, but I would manage their office, Organic Southwest, down in Cornwall. So that took me and my family down there for seven or eight years, and then to Devon. And I worked on lots of programmes for them, supporting community businesses and social enterprises, obviously lots of organic food and farmers. So yeah, I could really see that, the value that social and environmental business can do. And yeah, it's just sort of an area that, you know, just seems to make sense to me. So that's kind of, in a nutshell.

So a trip to Australia basically set you on a path which has culminated in where you are now. So how did, how did you go from working for a social enterprise at the Soil Association to setting up on your own? What does that look like?

Yeah, so I'd been um, when the Soil Association office closed down in Cornwall, I carried on working for them as a project manager, and very much I was sort of working on my own from home, which was great, because my daughter was very young then, and I was a single parent, so it worked very well. And I still had the security of a monthly income coming in. And you know, I could still get the support around sort of policy and IT and finance from Bristol. But more and more, I was working like a freelancer. And I was working on programmes where I was learning how to set up the website and the social media and I was doing all the partnership development. So I could see that very clearly, how I could work as a freelancer. And I guess I'd always wanted to set up my own business, I always remember with my dad that mum always, you know he worked in his factory his whole life, I mean, he did take early retirement and he was very, you know, sort of active happy person, but I kind of always remember that oh, dad should have worked for himself, he'd have been really good. And you sort of, you get to 40 and you think, well if I don't do it soon, I, you know, I'm never gonna do it. So I kind of already started making plans, then I moved back to Bristol and they, oh well you need to come back and work in the office, and it was like, I couldn't do that again, I couldn't even think about going back to work in an office nine to five. So that was sort of a good launch pad. And I got redundancy anyway, which kind of forced me to do it. So I set up in my own consultancy, you know, it's just starting to try and figure it out, as I went, you know, using the skills and the networks that I'd developed through the Soil Association. But that was kind of a little bit of a rocky road. And I don't, I think what was really interesting, actually, I think this is a really interesting insight that it was, like I was I suddenly got this very strong calling around empowering and supporting young women, I was becoming more and more aware, I suppose my own daughter was growing up, I could see, you know, that they're going through a hard time, obviously, very obviously, in other parts of the world, but here too, so that sort of really became my new purpose and took over from organic food and farming, but still within sustainability, you know, it's still had to be around sustainability for me, you know, that sort of was kind of a really important area to focus my attention, but working with young women instead. And so yeah, I just started to, you know, become a voluntary youth business advisor and a trustee for a local charity working to help end FGM and other inequality issues. And yeah, I just started talking to people and doing lots of, lots of research because I'd moved back to Bristol, asking around what other youth groups were there, had anybody heard of anything like this? And that's when Catalyse Change was born. And I think, you know, it's definitely, I still do my own consultancy, as you know, but, you know, Catalyse Change is the one that has really taken my real energy and passion, and the one that's really grown and had the real impact. And I think that is one of the very important lessons I'd love to pass on really. It is that thing about really coming from your why, your purpose, and really talking to people and letting it be born from that. Whereas my own consultancy, which is called Sustain Life Consulting, sort of just, I never did that sort of research or never had that kind of passion behind it. And so it's quite interesting seeing the two, how they've evolved differently.

It's so interesting, when you're connected to a real vision for how you want the world to be different, it does propel you doesn't it? As soon as that starts lining up in your head, and what you're doing day in, day out, lines up with that vision properly, then you get the energy, you get the drive and stuff starts to grow. Whereas it can feel like an uphill struggle when you're... and there's a disconnect somewhere where it's not quite kind of lining up with that kind of vision, mission and values that we always talk about.

Yeah, and it's kind of almost like I didn't realise it at the time, but it was like this really strong purpose this why that was growing and growing. And then you know, now, obviously, I suppose since I've done more training and now I deliver courses myself, it's you know, very clear and everyone's talking about purpose led, it's got to be purpose led. But you know, you've really got a feel that, it's got to be really real, you can't just say oh, what's my purpose? It's got to be something that you know, really comes from within you. And obviously there's different ways that you can identify that if it's not obvious that I you know, work with women on my courses, but you know, from there, and I really recommend that book Start With Why, Simon Sinek, that's very useful.

Yeah, I love that book.

And from there, you can really then develop your vision and your mission. But yeah, that's got to be a starting place.

Absolutely. And I always think that you can feel it in your body when you've got it, because your body is like excited to work on this thing, rather than dreading it, as can sometimes be the case.

Yeah, no, absolutely. Yeah, no, I think that's a really important area. And that's something that I really, it's something that I've developed myself a lot over the last five years and I always talk to the women that I work with about really sort of trust in your intuition and really tapping into that. And I think that sort of being able to be aware of your body and how it feels is such a sort of a key skill that we can develop awareness to. It's so, so, so important, isn't it for any sort of decision making and for making sure that we are doing the right thing.

Absolutely. So tell us a little bit more about Catalyse Change then, what is the vision to Catalyse Change?

So it's, we see a world where girls and young women are confident and happy sustainability leaders and changemakers. So, you know, we offer a range of learning and mentoring programmes, which really support them within that vision. And yeah, I mean, it just started off really, well as I said, with all these different conversations, and set it up as a social enterprise with three other women. And we spent quite a lot of time thinking about, you know, our values, and exactly what we were going to do, and then just launched it through a crowdfunder and did a three day residential programme around sustainability, but a very holistic approach. So it's obviously, you know, looking at, you know, what is sustainability and what are the hard skills and soft skills to work in sustainability, but also very much it's got a dimension around personal development and well being because you can't be a change maker unless you, you know, fully believe in yourself. And you've got to have that inner confidence, and I suppose, you know, that in many ways, is one of the key things why we focus on women, because in terms of their empowerment and their confidence, there are a lot of reasons, you know, culturally and within our society, and you know, how girls are raised and how the media portrays us that, you know, we don't have that. So that's why you know, I think a female-only space is very powerful. And it really works. You know, when we did that first boot camp, it was just so incredible the energy, the impact, the transformation, which is what's given you know, us the energy to to continue with it. And that's so it now evolved, we put it all online two years ago, when COVID hit, done it as a similar sort of format programme, a three day Catalyst Summit, we've called it instead. And it's going to be evolving into a longer programme, where they have the mentoring, and we've set up an online platform for them. So during that six months, they're supported with you know, peer networking, masterclasses, meetups and a mentor to guide them through that, that process.

That's an incredible, so many incredible, inspiring things in there not to mention the fact that you pivoted something so kind of grounded in the in-person world into the online space in response to COVID. How has that been taken up by the women?

Yeah, well, I mean, obviously, when COVID hit, it was, you know, we all had to do it, which I mean, for me, I think it's been an incredible opportunity, because it's allowed us to, you know, we can work with twice as many young women now from going from 30 to 60, within an online programme, and the you know, it's a lot more diverse, you know, they can come from anywhere around the UK, even the world, you know, we do have some young women joining us from other parts of Europe, even Africa and Asia in this last programme. So, yeah, I mean it, I mean, it's interesting, you know, it's, I really, I think the programme really works, you know, but everyone seems to agree with me. Also, it means that we can have speakers and mentors from all over the country and all over the world. You know, clearly, we want to be able to balance that with some sort of, you know, outdoor face to face experiences too going forward next year, but it does work online. And you know, even if they do come together for an event for a few days, or over a weekend, for example, still, it's going to be the online space where they stay connected and continue that learning. So yeah, I think we've got to think about how we can actually resource it and, you know, continue to still be able to have the, the face to face as well. But I think the majority of what we're going to be doing will stay online. And I think, you know, people are getting pretty used to that as well now, so.

Yeah, and I really like what you said about being able to have more diversity, not just in the people that you're helping, but also with the speakers, because I've definitely found that too. I think there's, you can reach out to lots more people who might have real accessibility challenges. Like, I think you know from being with me on Trade Up, I couldn't have done Trade Up if it hadn't been for Coronavirus, because I'm on my own a lot of time with my children and I just could not have travelled to go to sessions. It was only because it was online that I was able to access that. And you know, as a single parent, I'm sure that's kind of been forefront of your mind of how you can help those people who might have, you know, come to parenthood very early. I'm thinking for you're kind of catchment area. Yeah, it's just speakers and students, I imagine really benefit from that.

Yeah, no, absolutely. And I also think, you know, if you've got speakers, if people were just sitting in a room listening to a speaker, then you don't actually have to be in that room. So how does having an interesting conversation with my advisory board on it last Friday actually, it was our first in person meeting again and it was lovely. We went up to Ashton Court, and Jessica, one of the advisory board members, she did this beautiful forest bathing session for us. And it's like, well, actually, these are the sort of experiences where you know, it's really special to meet in person, sort of that face to face, socialising networking. That's that energy and also doing things in nature. But I also want, you know, I think the core programme can and should remain online. And it's just about how you can add that sort of optional value if people are able to access that and want to.

Sounds really exciting. So I guess, I mean, sometimes this can be perceived as an awkward question, but I'm pretty sure you'll give me a straight answer. So you started off with a crowdfunder to get going? Where does most of your funding come from now? Because I know, often that really holds people back from even getting started. But they can't see how they might develop a sustainable income for a project.

Yeah, I mean, it is difficult, it's sort of an ongoing issue. And that was why I joined the Trade Up programme really, to look at how we could develop the business model and you know, scale what we're doing. The majority of our income comes through corporate sponsorship, and it seems that that's going to be continued to be the main area and the area that we're going to pursue. We do charge for some of the tickets for events, but that's still quite a small part of the income. We have had some grant funding for specific projects and to help us get started. But you know, clearly, for many reasons, that's not an area we want to go down. So it's looking at how we could become more business-like around working with corporates. So it's not just about them saying, oh, well, you know, we'll give you some money for a bursary. It's more about, well, actually, we're also performing a service for you for in terms of, you know, women coming in and gaining skills as mentors, you know, clearly it's helping with their CSR targets as well. But also, it's that, you know, more than that, because actually, they need a diverse young workforce. So it's looking about how we can be supporting young women. Y'know because we get some really incredible young women, and we've already done the recruitment, done a lot of the training, done that sort of empowerment work, and some of the young women who are then going into internships with companies are, you know, they're really delighted with them. So we're kind of now looking at how that can be more of a sort of a formal route that we can work with businesses on. Obviously, because of our target audience with young women, you know, 18 to 24, they aren't actually in a time of their life, when they you know, they do have access to much money. So it's kind of like, we've got to, you know, we can't be getting much of it directly from them.

I think that is so important to recognise that there are other ways of getting money. Because I think often we, we jump to ah, we can only help people in private practice who can pay us directly. And then maybe if we go one step away from that, we start to think about things like grant funding, but a lot of us are quite frightened of that, because it is this kind of boom or bust. It feels like you know, you get funding, you provide something, and then oh God, I can't carry that project on, even though it's really helping people because there's, I haven't managed to secure it for next time, it's quite a stressful way of working and when you're offering a mental health service can feel a little bit anxiety provoking. So it's really interesting to hear you talk about a relationship with corporates, and what that could look like for people.

Yeah. Yeah, no, absolutely. Because I mean, if you're working with beneficiaries who, you know, obviously don't have the income themselves, or, you know, for whatever reason, it wouldn't be, you know, be appropriate to be charging them at the sort of the full rates. And, you know, also if you want to be helping people, you know, who are in different types of social or low income situations, you know, there's different, yeah, there are different ways to bring in funding. So yeah, it's being creative about that. And I think just also getting really clear, isn't it on what your offer is, who your beneficiaries are, and then you can start to get more creative with how you can achieve that. And I'm not saying it's easy, it really isn't, you know, it's sort of a constant battle, and it's really stopping our expansion at the moment. But this year, we're starting to look at a membership model. Which, you know, still might be possible but again, you know, you have to explore these different things, but maybe that's not the right route for us, I'm not sure. But you know, those, there's a lot of opportunities now aren't there with digital communities, either directly through membership, or, you know, now we've got this online community, we can then look at upselling, you know, master classes and courses. So I think that could also be a way once we've got, you know, some really good value and a larger community, but there's, you know, there still can be good income opportunities that way as well. Just got to be looking at, you know, diversifying your income really.

Yeah, absolutely. And, and making sure that you've got that time to think creatively about how you can bring the money into the business. I think often, we don't give ourselves that time to step back and think who is actually benefiting from this project, because it might not just be the people that you're directly working with, there might be other people who are also benefiting, who could have a stake in it.

Yeah. I mean, that's why these courses are great, you know, like, because I also did the School for Social Entrepreneurs or SSE, their startup course, also, I've worked for them as well. So I know that they do lots of different really good courses. And I've seen there's quite a few different ones available at the moment in Bristol, in the southwest, anyway, but they are a national network of schools. So yeah, I mean, they provide really good business training, and the business canvas model, that's sort of always a good exercise, I think for really looking more broadly at the opportunities and your business, and, you know, what, what, what the challenges, what the opportunities are.

Yeah, absolutely. And I'll definitely link to the School for Social Entrepreneurs so that people can check that out. Because I think there's a lot of people who are struggling, thinking, Why can't I solve this myself? And it's like, of course, you can't, this is complicated. And there is support available out there. So you've mentioned SSE already, was there anywhere else that you got some really valuable support when you were getting set up?

Yeah, I started, I did the first, one of the modules of the Entrepreneurial Spark, that was attached to NatWest, I'm not sure if it still is, but they have hubs in different parts of the country. Also, I know Unlimited, they do courses or can provide some business support with seed funding in the same way that SSE do. And also, I'm just thinking as well, I just heard recently about WECA, so this our, the West of England Regional Development support, which I assume other regions have too, and they're offering business coaching grants at the moment. So again, I mean, I think, you know, I think if you can, it's really good to get a coach, because that can really help you get really focused much more quickly on what your needs are, and help you to sort of really get that sort of accountability and big picture thinking and help you to drill it down into an achievable action plan. So I think, you know, if you've got funds to do that, it's good, good to look for your own coach.

Absolutely. I completely agree. So if somebody is thinking about starting up a social enterprise, but they're feeling a little bit intimidated, or overwhelmed by the idea right now, what are the first few things they need to start thinking about to get set up?

Yeah, so I mean, we've already touched on, you know, really that sort of big picture thinking about, you know, what's your big idea? What problem do you want to solve, and then that sort of that time delving into your purpose or your why, which then you can lead into, you know, vision and mission, but I think just as important as that, you know, it needs to start straightaway is actually talking to people. You've got to talk to your customers or your potential clients, if you know, they aren't your customers yet. And there's so many different ways to do that. So I know people can be, oh, but I don't know who they are, how do I access them? You know, we've got this whole wealth of resources now, just quick polls, I do polls on like my Instagram stories, or you can do them on Twitter as well can't you? And Facebook. Just picking up the phone to talk to people is a really good way, sometimes that we forget about, don't we? And y'know LinkedIn, I think LinkedIn is an amazing resource. And so we've all got, you know, those sort of 30 people who, you know, we know of who are sort of key stakeholders, even if they're not actually customers, or potential customers. And I just think you've got to talk to people really, and find out what they want, find out what their problems are. So yeah, I think that's, that's kind of a key one. So I always do that. I run a social business course for women, and so I do one around vision and purpose, but the next one is on understanding your customers. And I think you could interchange them because I think you've got to start talking to people straight away.

I could not agree more. I think one of the things I talk about the most on this podcast is how you shouldn't try and second guess it; actually talk. And but it's difficult, isn't it? We can get in our heads about that we can find it difficult to reach out to certain groups. So you mentioned using polls and Instagram stories and that kind of thing. And a bit about LinkedIn. But can you remember where did you start when you first had the idea of Catalyse Change? How did you start reaching out?

Well, I just started talking to people. I felt a bit embarrassed about it really. I remember I did one of those You Lab courses, I don't know, I don't know if you've heard of You Lab, but some it comes from the States. And you can get these, do these free online courses, and we had like a little hub in Bristol, so we used to watch the online events, but have like a small coaching circle. And that really helped me to actually start feeling the confidence to express it and really some sort of interesting techniques that they use. So I suppose it's kind of like an action, so you could kind of say it's like an action learning set like we did with Trade Ups, because I think it's having that sort of accountability buddy or partner that you can just start exploring the idea and then start testing the waters. Like, I used to just go for cups of tea with different people around Bristol, who I knew were working in quite sort of strategic positions around sustainability, and just have that chat and just sort of scope it out with them. But in terms of actually practically doing focus groups with our target audience, you know, I was so scared about it, because I literally hadn't worked with young people. I mean, that's why I felt a bit silly, really, you know, clearly I worked in sustainability, I knew how to set up a social business and manage a project, etc., but I'd never work with young people. So it was a bit like, gulp, and then just asked a teacher down at Colston Girls School, which is just at the bottom of the hill and where my daughter was at the time, if we could come in and run a focus group around sustainability. And they were like, of course, yeah, no problem. And it's like, okay, it's that easy.

It's that creative thinking though, it's that extra step to think, okay, I don't have access, I don't have direct access to this group of people. Who do I know that does, who might be able to facilitate that?

Totally, totally. Yeah. And, you know, like, you know, obviously, because I'm working with young people, but schools and youth groups and the Council have like umbrella organisations, and they're always looking for volunteers, you know, and as I said before, I became a trustee of a charity, and joined the youth, the youth enterprise as a voluntary business advisor. So I mean, you know, that's just within young people. But every sector is always looking for volunteers, and people who can help out, or there's always different conferences and events. And if you, if you volunteer to help, like so, for example, I spent a year volunteering as a steward for the Friday for the Futures March for young people, because actually, these are young people who are really motivated and care about climate change, so that was like my ideal target audience. I mean, you know, clearly I wanted to help, but you know, it's actually if you do something like that, then you're going to be sort of accepted into people's networks and have the opportunity to talk to them.

Absolutely. And I think one thing that I couldn't recommend more, is getting embedded in your local social enterprise network. Like, meet people like you trying to make a difference in the world. And you find ways of helping each other out and you promote each other. Which I think that's been one of the most powerful things that I've done, certainly.

Yeah, no, totally. And it just gives you so many different ideas. And yeah, like, you just see that what other people are doing, and then you bounce off each other. And also, you know, it can feel quite lonely can't it, especially you know, if you're working on your own as a sole trader, freelancer, or you just set up your own business, you feel that sort of, feel quite lonely. So yeah, it's really important to be around like minded people and, you know, there's always loads of networking meetings. I mean, you know, obviously I live in Bristol and sustainability networking is brilliant, but, you know, I'm sure wherever you live, you'll find something. But now, because everything's online, too, it's, it's like, even, you know, even more opportunities.

Yeah, that's totally true. I'm still kind of plugged into the Plymouth social enterprise network, even though we've moved and now I couldn't possibly go to an in-person meeting. So again, there's so much more opportunity, isn't there?

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah. So I guess I'm wondering, you know, people, you mentioned the sole trader word, I mentioned it earlier. And I know that there's quite a lot of anxiety out there about the legal side of social enterprise, and 'am I really one?' is a question that comes up quite a lot. Can you just say a little bit about the truth behind that? Because I think there's some myths.

Yeah, I mean, clearly, there are a whole range of different legal structures which are suitable for social enterprises. And it can be a bit of a minefield. So you know, I'd always say to someone, you know, do some reading about it, and get some professional advice. So for example, you know, SSE Unlimited, there's loads on their website, and by doing one of their courses, you will be able to explore that. But you know, you don't, nobody dives in and sets up a legal structure or you shouldn't. So again, you've got to do this whole process around your purpose, your vision, your customers to actually know what your objectives are and what activities you're going to deliver. And then the structure would come from there. In terms of whether you can be a social enterprise or social entrepreneur as a sole trader, or even as a limited company, you can, totally, because it's about your objectives, but you should have clarity about that in your governing document, so that actually is embedded in terms of your social and environmental objectives should be clear within your your company objects or, you know, your your constitution, what yeah, whatever it is that you've got. So that there is something, there is something that you're showing that that's the driving purpose behind your business. And, you know, because clearly the whole point of the legal structures for social enterprise is that it then has that community interest or that social or environmental objective and value actually embedded into it, and they have things such as asset lock, so you can't just then make lots of money and use it for personal gain or put it out to the Cayman Islands, for example, it is got you know, there is some sort of legal clause that you are saying what that you, you are doing what you say you are sorry.

Yeah, and I think the legal structures, in my understanding, it's worth looking into those if you need somebody to trust you with public money, or with grant funding. Because, because, you know, if you think about it, if you were a grant funding organisation, or if you were, say, a local authority, you would want to know that asset lock was in place. That that money could only be used for projects that are related to that social mission. Whereas I think there are other ways of doing social enterprise where those legal structures can become a bit limiting. And I've certainly met people who have chosen to keep their businesses as limited companies, so that they can access things like you know, venture capitalism, and take things to a different kind of a level. So I think you're spot on, really, you can't make the decision about your structure until you know exactly how you want to change the world, and what sort of mission you're going to use to do that.

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, no, totally, you need to get that clarified and there's, it's not something that you should rush into. And I think, you know, as you start to develop and grow and especially like to say, if you want to bring in people to help you, such as you know, a board who can bring in expertise and credibility, you know, clearly if you don't want to be having any personal liability, so obviously, that's where a limited structure, or other legal structure can come into play. But yeah, if you want to actually get a grant or other investment, then that's when you obviously need these types of structures. But I think yeah, I think people get too hung up on about that, at the beginning, I think that's something that can develop with time and you don't need to rush into it. And a lot of these sort of startup programmes and seed funding that we've mentioned, you can still get those as a sole trader or, and or a limited company.

Yeah, absolutely. And I really would recommend, I know we keep referring to it, but checking out those free resources that are available in the School for Social Entrepreneurs. I think SEUK also had some blog posts I found really helpful thinking about this stuff at the beginning, and just not not holding yourself back because you don't know exactly what legal structure you're going to be. Get started, and then when you've had those good conversations with your community, it will solidify in your mind how this needs to look legally to make that happen.

Yeah, totally. Yeah, there's a really great book actually, Heidi Fisher on Social Enterprise, so if you're quite, if you're serious about it that's, it's called How to Successfully Set Up and Grow a Social Enterprise, Heidi L Fisher. I found that a very useful book.

Oh, amazing. I'll link to that in the show notes so that people can find it because that sounds like a really useful one.

Yeah, really comprehensive but very clear, you know, very easy to read.

So I guess this might be a difficult question to answer, but how would somebody know if social enterprise is the right route for them?

I think when you're doing purpose led work that has got you know social and or environmental objectives at its heart then you know, like you've already said you, you all you are a social entrepreneur. So you know, why not, you know, be part of that community, why not have that you know, value add and credibility that you are a social enterprise? Yeah, because it can be a bit of a lonely place as a small business or as a sole trader out there and you know, so many other, there are so many people saying, oh, we're purpose led, but a lot of the time I think might be meaningless. So you know, why not really embed yourself in that world and you know, if you are able to get the recognition for it and the support and you know, that's only going to sort of help you grow.

Yeah, absolutely. I think that's a really important message for a lot of people listening to this, and allow yourself to own it. If you are values driven in your work, then own that and allow yourself the title. It was a game changer for me, actually, when I took that on board. So one thing that I asked you before we came on air, and and I thought it would be really useful for people to hear is what two action steps psychologists and therapists listening to this, who think they might be interested in starting out in social enterprise should take. What would be the first steps you'd recommend?

Well, sorry to repeat myself, but I do think the first most important one is just to start talking to your customers or your potential clients or beneficiaries. Because until you have those conversations about what people actually want, or what they need, and how they perceive you to be, then it's impossible for you to sort of develop the idea and to make any decisions. So just start having those conversations. Yeah, I'd say that's kind of most, I love the Seth Godin, do you ever read Seth Godin? I get his daily blog, he really inspires me. And he's done so many amazing books around marketing. And there's a quote from him that stood out for me when I was looking through my, one of some of my workbooks today, and it says 'Don't find customers for your products, find products for your customers'.

I love that.

So really having the customers at the heart of whatever you do. I think we did a, we did a session didn't we, with SSE around that customer centric, and it's that that that same sort of ethos that you've got to be doing everything in conversation with them, and developing your business with your customers, because it isn't anything without them, is it? And then one other thing that I always do with women on my course, at the end of the first session, is I ask them to go away and write a letter to themselves from three years in the future. So to just sort of take that time out and just really visualise themselves in three years time, and you know, where they really want to be with their business? What would that look like? Where would that, what would that feel like? You know, where would they be working? Who would they be working with? And, you know, what advice would they then give to their younger self now. And I just find that as a really creative way to help sort of unleash that sort of, some clarity and ideas and also inspiration about where you might want to be going.

I love that idea. I really love that because I think so often we don't give ourselves the time to unleash our creative spirits. And taking that time to really reflect and using an exercise like that to do it, I think would be so valuable. So I am going to go away and do that one. So thank you so much for sharing that. And thank you so much, you've shared a lot of value in this interview. And I'm very excited to say that you're coming and sharing even more with us in the Do More Than Therapy membership. So for anyone who doesn't know, if you're not in the Do More Than Therapy membership already, then this is our monthly membership, where we teach master classes to help you grow your practice, and take it in whatever direction you want to go in, whether that's, you know, passive income streams, online courses, becoming a social enterprise, whatever it is. It's about growing and becoming bigger than where you are right now. And Traci is coming in to teach our October masterclass. So, if you'd like to hear more from Traci, then obviously you can come and join us in the Do More Than Therapy membership, and we would love to have you. So I shall link to that in the show notes for anybody who's interested. But I think are going to be lots of people that want to look you up after this Traci, so where's the best place for people to come and find you?

So I've got a website, tracilewis.co.uk. Also, I'd love to connect on LinkedIn. So I'm Traci Lewis, TRACI LEWIS on LinkedIn be really great to connect. So do just drop me a note. And I'm on Twitter @tracilewis79, so yeah, that's, those would be good places to connect. Yeah and I really do hope to meet you in October. I'm really looking forward to it. So thanks for the opportunity, Rosie.

Fantastic. I will link to all of those places in the show notes. So if you want to connect with Traci, head over to the show notes in your podcast player, and all of her links will be there and make it super easy for you. Thank you so much, Traci.

Oh, thank you.

Thank you for listening to this week's episode of the Business of Psychology podcast. If you share my passion for doing more than therapy, then make sure you come over and join my free Do More Than Therapy Facebook community, where you can work on getting your big ideas off the ground with like minded psychologists and therapists. I'd also love it if you could leave the show a five star review wherever you listen to your podcasts. It will help more of the people who need it to find it. See you next week for more tips and inspirational stories to help you do more than therapy.