Grace and Katelyn dive into a discussion on the latest debate, analyzing Kamala Harris's performance and contrasting it with her opponent's approach. They touch on pressing issues like abortion, the shifting political landscape, and the debate between traditional and modern family values. The conversation also explores the economic cost of unaffordable childcare and the need for community pools. Katelyn shares her thoughts on Athens' graffiti culture and Grace calls for more public pools.

00:00 Catch Up with Katelyn in Greece

00:42 Debate Reactions and Hot Takes

02:20 Kamala's Debate Performance

04:07 Gender and Politics

07:11 Abortion and Political Shifts

20:48 Childcare and Family Values

30:27 Graffiti in Athens

34:05 Community Amenities and Public Spaces

36:17 Conclusion and Farewell

Katelyn, what's happening?

Hey, Grace, how's it going? I'm doing all right.

Yeah, because you're still in Greece.

I am still in Greece. I'm in Athens now, and I'm staying in this really amazing apartment in the Sydagma area, which is like right near Plaka and Monastiraki, and I just fall in love with this city more and more every time. I just love Athens.

Okay, we have to stop meeting like this, Katelyn, because you've been on vacation for what feels like a year.

Not long enough, but I will say this, longer than the average American vacation and, next week I promise you, I will be back in Charleston with a smile.

Last night was The debate what is your first hot take?

Well, it's a really somber moment and I really want to just put some thoughts and prayers out there for all the pets in Springfield, Ohio, it's gotta be really tough, like living in a place where immigrants are just constantly searching you out for dinner.

I can't believe that he was baited so easily. I guess that's the takeaway for me, certainly he knew she was going to say things about the crowd size at his, rallies and all of those things.

And certainly his handlers. Went over that of don't, she's going to talk about this because she wants you to get mad and don't get mad, just pivot. And what's so amazing to me is that he just can't do that. And I just don't understand how an adult person can’t control what comes out of their mouth.

the first 30 minutes I watched and I sort of was thinking to myself, he's actually doing a good job.

I was like, okay, this is very uncharacteristic, but the more it went on, the more unhinged he got in terms of emotion. And it was a masterclass in Kamala's ability to demonstrate her prosecutor tendencies. And I was shocked at how, unhinged he came across.

Yeah, it was a lot down the rabbit hole on really simple issues that he could have said just a couple of things from his policy perspective and gotten out of it. And yet he just can't do that. I was never a Kamala fan. When she was running the last time. In watching last night's debate, what that made me realize is that the media really did a number on me and making me think that she wasn't qualified or that she was way too liberal but also that, When she was first running for president, she felt like she had to cater to this one group of the party and go down this road and really every candidate that walks around says all of these things. things of I'm going to do this, I'm going to do that, but until you've actually done the job, you don't understand the systems that are in place and all of the intricacies of the issues. Now she's had four years to come out and say, here's why we can't do this, or here's why this may look different than what some people think it should look like.

That is my graduation into why I think she will make a great president and also why the vast difference of her takeaways in doing the job every day versus his takeaways of doing the job every day. I don't think that in the daily, Life of him being president, he was researching and doing all of the intricacies of understanding every single policy that he had to then weigh in on.

And I think to her detriment, she overdoes it on understanding the intricacies of all of those pieces of policy. And it Showed up big time last night. He knows how to be a great candidate. She knows how to be a good legislator.

Exactly. And I spoke a little bit last week about some of the conversations I've had with my godson. He and I have been texting on Instagram about this and what is interesting is he still is nervous about people thinking it's a DEI hire. Because that is really what circulates online. And I wonder if last night will change the minds of those who are nervous about that too.

She demonstrated over and over again her handle on the issues. She was able to push back. She looked strong without looking shrill which is, I think something that people are nervous about with female candidates in general. I actually think her debate performance far exceeded that of Hillary Clinton, four years ago with Trump.

And I'm not saying Hillary had a bad debate performance, but I think Kamala nailed it.

Yeah. This is very shallow, but one of the things that I think is also to her benefit is she is very attractive. And I think from human nature, when a lot of people look at candidates, they want someone either that looks like them or that they are in some way attracted to, that they think there is something about them that is enviable.

And she is a very pretty woman and oh, our society. But that is truly what adds a little cherry on top for a lot of people.

Yeah, I think so as well. There was a lot of sexism that happened last night in so much as they turned his mic back on many times to, counterpoint what she was saying.

And the one-time last night that she asked for that to be done, they didn't allow her to do it. I think we'll see that a little bit more. I don't think it bothers her though. And that's what's amazing about it. She's so used to dealing with that kind of treatment that she just plows right through it.

And yeah. Yeah. It doesn't affect her performance, which is what we need. There are going to be many problems over the next four years where sexism and racism and all of these things are going to come up. And she just, she sees that.

It's not an issue for her.

Yeah, exactly.

And I think I read this morning also that he had five or seven more minutes of speaking time than she did, which again, I think that she was able to convey her message in a concise way, that she got everything out she wanted to say. And his word salad was just, I mean, there were so many things that he could have made into policy, which is what all of his surrogates are doing, out on the campaign trail right now, trying to get what they think his message should be, knowing that he is never going to say this message.

And they truly believe that if it came down to policy, that it would go his way, but he's never going to talk in detail about policy. don't think he's capable of it.

I agree. There was lots of chit chat on the interwebs about the extra five minutes he got. He didn't use those extra five minutes.

One thing that I think we should pay attention to right now. And this is on the heels of that piece about Phyllis Schlafly that I did last week is where. between women, this gender gap exists, beginnings in the late seventies and the early eighties this divide became between women. At first it started over a sort of abortion and LGBTQ rights. And there were people like Phyllis Schlafly who were the anti-feminist movement.

It even came down to using words, because on the anti-feminist movement, family just meant the very nuclear, straight family. And on the feminist movement, families was inclusive of women that weren't married that had children, divorced families, all of the different makeups of families.

That has directed how people attach themselves to parties, so it's we're the pro-family party, and then we're the inclusive party. Those are the great divide as at least how it started. Because abortion was upended. I think that those differences that used to seem pretty stark are now starting to blend.

And I don't think that most women are now attached to one party. I think most women are attached to policy.

I think the abortion issue is starting that process. One of the people I'm traveling with is my second cousin and she's young. She grew up in Oklahoma. Evangelical her whole life. Her parents are still evangelical, and she is much more liberal. She will be voting for Kamala, for many different reasons. And she and I have gotten into some really deep conversations about this in particular, the role of women, white women in particular, and the national stage.

And I think I disagree I do think women are still attached to the label. Maybe it's not their choice. Maybe it's because they're married to their husbands. But I think abortion is the first thing that is really starting to make them question. Is this actually the party for me because they had a right and now they don't have it anymore. I want to think about that a little bit more, but my initial reaction is a disagreement. I'll still on that. I love it.

This doesn't happen very often. I love that we disagree. This is so great. I know. And so back to the debate, This election, if any election, has been the divide between men and women in that you could see from the Republican National Convention, you can see from the podcast that Trump is doing, from, the words that he's using, that he is very geared toward, getting men to vote for him. And from Kamala's perspective, I think she's energizing women like you just said in a way that, hasn't been done in a long time. I think this is going to be a really fascinating piece of history that we're living through that people will analyze for years and years about, are there new, coalitions happening?

Are there new splits happening? The Republican Party looks very different than it did even 10 or 15 years ago, but more like 30 years ago, totally different Republican party and the Democrat party looks a little bit different than it did many years ago. I think we are in the midst of a massive political movement and shifting of people's alliances.

One of the ways that you could have seen that exact thing last night was the conversation about abortion. Trump's response to the question was incredibly unemotional. It was very much, I did a hard thing, I pushed, I appointed Supreme Court justices that did what everybody wanted it to, and go back to the states and let states vote.

And he even admitted, in his answer that states are voting more liberal than people thought they were going to. For him, it was all about the legal process of, the sorting of the rights, whereas when Kamala answered, it was very much anecdotal stories. She talked about women, bleeding out in their cars in Texas.

She talked about, people who have been trying and trying suffering from a lack of care, a very sort of personal and emotional response to the abortion issue, which again goes to the ability for a female to understand how personal it is for us. It's our bodies. It's our safety.

And in some instances, it's our lives that we're putting on the line to have children. Whereas men, particularly men who aren't married and aren't having kids. Don't necessarily have that same personal touch to the topic and can stick with that legal, process mindset around this issue.

One of the things too that I think is on display is that as a candidate, one of the things that's been very successful for him is shocking people saying things that no one else will say. And he loves to say, I'm the guy that speaks real. I tell people what they're thinking. I say it out loud. I wonder if we've reached the point where his shock value has gone a little bit too far. Saying babies are being executed after they're born. I think that the majority of people in this country, even if you tend to lean conservative know that babies are not being executed after birth, that is murder and that just isn't happening. So when he says those things, I think the people that like him just laugh and roll their eyes and say, Oh, that's just Trump being Trump.

But I think the people that may just. Be center right and have voted for him because they like his carried tax interest rate better or his tax cuts. When they hear that they're like, he's just being ridiculous and absurd, trying to get attention. And so they don't even take it seriously,

I don't know if that resonated with people last night, but it certainly to me, Was like, this isn't even a shock anymore. He's just saying stuff to shock people. And so I'm over it.

Totally. It just is silly. And then he was trying to say the word terror and he kept saying Tara and I was like, can somebody on the worldwide web create a meme that's like him is Scarlett O'Hara coming down and she's like, I'm coming into my home, Tara, please somebody make that meme. It would be really funny.

That's so good. I love it.

Yeah. So do you think there was one point that maybe really resonated with anyone that's a takeaway?

Like I said, I think in the beginning he came out, a little more levelheaded.

And I do think his answers on the economy probably resonated with people. But towards the end, I just think he unraveled to the point of the rambling and that wasn't sustainable. We know he's strong on the economy in the minds of the electorate. That's what most people say when they say they're voting for him is the economy and taxes.

I don't know if this really resonated with anyone else, but he kept calling us a failing nation. And I feel like, He talks a ton about inflation and I get that. I feel like when you go to a restaurant now, prices feel really expensive, but at the same time, our airports have never been busier. People are traveling consumer purchasing is still high. You go to Costco, you go to Walmart, you go to any store and it's there, people are still buying a lot of things.

Pisses me off. When he says we're a failing nation.

We have amazing things happening right now. People are doing amazing things. People are living good lives right now. And I realized there still is a vast difference between the haves and the have nots, but that doesn't mean that we're a failing nation. That means that we're a nation in progress, and there are things that we can do to make it better, but I'm just tired of this. doom and gloom view of who we are as a country because it's not true.

And it was juxtaposed to, let's not forget, a month and a half ago, an equally as old candidate who couldn't bring the vim and vigor that Kamala's and Tim Walz are bringing to this campaign. And so now the failing nation, Diatribe from him seems even more stark because all Kamala said last night was, we're moving forward. We're turning the page where we're successful. We're great. We're this, we're that. And she just said, you, we need to choose. Do we want to constantly be told negative things about ourselves or do we want to invest in what's happening in what's next?

Yeah. I agree. The other thing that I absolutely love is Taylor Swift endorsing Kamala and then signing off as a childless cat lady.

Yes. And the picture of herself holding her cat. Yeah. What I loved about her message was it really encouraged people to make their own choice, but it made it clear, she's done her research. She watched the debate. It wasn't just a blanket endorsement. And I think that for her followers, I hope that resonated, that they have the power to make the choice themselves, because maybe they grew up in homes, maybe like Taylor, where they didn't feel like they could be publicly expressive of their political views, or they had to listen to the men in their lives. And she’s encouraging them like it's your choice, make your decision, educate yourself, do the things you need to do to feel comfortable to hit that button, on election day.

Think too that a lot of times we get caught up in city versus rural.

You can paint the contrast between a New Yorker and someone who lives on a ranch in Montana. But for the most part, everyone's living in the suburbs, which are almost the exact same thing all over this country. And they're growing and they have the same restaurants and they have a Costco and they have a Walmart and they have an Applebee's and most Americans have a similar life experience.

And I think she is able to talk about that much more and explain what life was like growing up versus. The life that he grew up in.

What do you think Kamala could have done better last night?

I think, and this is just from the fighter part in me, there were so many times that he just was clearly making shit up. And I wanted her to be like, Okay. Just stop. That is not true. There were a time when he was talking about executing babies. I think that she was very concerned about not coming across as being too aggressive with him. Like she didn't want to manhandle him on television.

I think she was handling him with kid gloves cause she didn't want to come across as being what people call a bitch. I think that we as women have to stop fearing people thinking we're bitches and we just need to say what we think because he clearly does and I think she could have addressed his gross inaccuracies and blatant lies in a much different way.

But people who are moderates or people who are Republicans that may not want to vote for him, they don't care about his inaccuracies. And certainly, one of the things that people say they love about him is he's a fighter, he's aggressive, and I don't know that was as aggressive as she could have been.

Yeah, I think the one time it stands out that she did that for me was about the guns when he was saying, Kamala's going to take all your guns. And she said, listen, listen, listen, like Tim and I are gun owners, nobody's coming in for all of your guns, and so stop saying those lies.

She did. She did say that, but I agree. I think there were more moments that she probably could have been. A bit more forceful. and then at the same time, I have a feeling there are probably listeners who would say absolutely not as a, half Black, half South Asian woman, there's no way that she could have ever, been more forceful and equally as successful as she was last night if she had come at him with any more aggression.

Well, her forcefulness was clearly better than when Biden said, Come on, man.

No, I think he said, “Will you shut up?

Will you shut up, man? That never felt right. Authentic. And but if she had said, shut up, do come on.

I think she maybe could have said that. But yeah, that was my only wish for her. And I know why she didn't do it, but I think that we, as women need to stop being afraid of men calling us bitches.

There was one moment and I don't know if you caught it, but it was very much towards the end where she goes "and this" and she pauses and I swear there was like something coming out of her mouth and she had to hold it in.

But she caught herself "this... man", or whatever she ended up saying.

I do remember that. Yeah. What was so genius about that though, is that it allowed everyone that was watching to take a step ahead and say their own thing about him. So that was pretty good. Was there one thing that stood out that they did not talk about?

I cannot believe they didn't talk about childcare. I'm not going to lie. It is one of the most pressing issues. I think that workers, labor, the economy are trying to address and there's such growing concern about it. And there was just nothing. If you're talking about small businesses and child tax credits and all the things that they're talking about, here in South Carolina, for instance, there is, I think they estimate that it's almost 1. 4 billion dollars annually, that it costs the economy for parents that aren't working, that have children under the age of three. That's 1. 4 billion dollars in revenue that could come out of South Carolina alone if we addressed the childcare issue.

Yeah. This again goes back to Phyllis Schlafly because where this started was in this anti-feminist movement that women should be home with their children.

Even though people don't necessarily say that anymore, that is the fundamental part of that whole movement that children shouldn't be raised in what they called government funded childcare. Phyllis Schlafly talked often about how when you put women to work, then you're grooming children at these childcare centers that are run by the federal government.

And, those words are still in our language today, they're just used differently. Where we are now is so different that it's had to be reworked because women have to work now, you can't afford to buy a house if two people aren't working in many cases.

So It's hard to put those two things together. And we are much more of a mobile society.

It used to be that we stayed in our neighborhoods. After we graduated from high school, got married. And now we don't necessarily do that. We live further and further away from where our families live. And so we don't have that family structure. Our parents are working longer. They're working into their seventies or they're retiring and they want to go live their life. So we don't have grandma that lives with us anymore.

Grandma that lives down the street to be able to take care of our kids like we used to. And that puts us as a society in a position of needing childcare.

Exactly. And one of the main talking points from more conservative politicians is this growing concern around, our birth rate here in the U. S., which is at a historic low. Yeah. And the sort of liberal rebuttal to that is, it's actually financially impossible to have a child at this point. And so most people are just choosing to quote, unquote, live their best lives, contribute to the economy via their taxes, but not continue to procreate because, again, back here in South Carolina, the average annual cost for an infant in, is 8, 000.

just over 9, 000 a year. And for somebody who is making, like 40, 50, 000, that's almost 9 percent of the medium income of a married couple. Something has to give, you can't want people to have more kids and continue to, have the same lack of support in society for children.

It's true. So how do you delineate between what people call traditional family values? And reality of the cost of living, the cost of childcare, all of the things that people have to do to make ends meet to support a family.

Any conservative would say, I'm, not against women working. We want women to work as, it's important, but I'm not sure, where it comes in. This conservative belief that part of our responsibility as a country and as government is to ensure that our children are well taken care of.

And it's also kind of amazing to me to tie this into what we talked about last week with tips. Many people are okay with excluding tips from being taxed.

And yet they're not okay with giving parents a tax credit. that goes toward childcare. This is where it all starts to get jumbled for me, is that childcare is an extension of school. And we all agree that school is a fundamental thing that government should provide.

Although, that's being questioned now too, is that people say the government shouldn't provide school, that it should be vouchers and you should be able to pick the private school that you want your child to go to. And so there really is this movement away from something that we as a society have agreed on for a long time of what our responsibility to families and kids and community is.

I think when I listen to you say that and I listened to how, for me, how clear it sounds. And again, let's remind everybody, I don't have kids. I'm not going to benefit from any tax credit,

you're part of the problem, Katelyn.

Yeah, exactly. I mean, but it was a conversation. It is expensive.

You know, could we afford it? Did we want to afford it? These are all things that We talked about and it's such a real conversation and I don't understand how we can't find a place in the middle that allows us to both respect the idea that traditional families are very much a reality of The U. S. and nontraditional families where mom and dad work and kids go to school is also very much a modern reality of the United States. It's not going away. Neither of those things are going away. So we have to find a solution.

There's an entire generation, my generation, Gen X, who were latchkey.

Yeah.

And we are the kids that didn't have childcare. Yeah. We just. took care of ourselves. And we grew up, I feel to be pretty practical, tough kids. There, certainly are ways that in looking back, our lives could have been much improved had it been a different scenario.

And one of the things that I isn't really addressed here in how candidates see childcare is that Trump never once probably thought about childcare. That probably has never ever in his entire life been any sort of issue for him because it is very common for families in New York City to have full-time childcare. And there are hierarchies of nannies in New York. It is a full throttle, very respected business so I'm quite sure that he had multiple nannies for all of his children growing up.

And I'm sure they were paid quite a bit of money and that probably never even dawned on him when he Talks about childcare. You hear that, cause he doesn't even see what a nanny makes as a significant amount of money, that's not even part of his concept. And so he's totally out of the loop on childcare, which is why his word salad of an answer last week has gotten so much, coverage because he clearly doesn't know what he's talking about.

But then when you hear from JD Vance on childcare. And he talks about childcare in that grandma and grandpa or an aunt or an uncle, like he's come up with this genius solution. That means to me that he doesn't know who he's talking to. He just doesn't understand the problem either, even though he grew up in a household where he was raised by women and it sounds like many of them didn't work. He just doesn't have his finger on the pulse of what childcare actually means.

Which is, again, why you need to go out and vote. You need to vote for individuals that represent everyone so that we can move forward laws. That makes sense for everybody.

We do have several politicians coming on the show soon, and several constituents coming on the show soon. And I think this is a really important topic to discuss from a statewide perspective. Because, we do have a lack of childcare, particularly in rural areas.

Part of it is around finding people to work in the childcare industry, because it is a very low paying position. I think that there are some early education programs in Charleston County. The c. S. D. Schools have, Mary Ford Early Education Center, and they take babies as early as six weeks and prepare them for going to school.

So I do think our state has some places where we are focused on childcare, but certainly I think we can get into the nitty gritty of how as a state we could do better and what politicians should be paying attention to.

South Carolina department of employment and workforce did a study in 2022 and they said that 27 percent of respondents said that a lack of childcare, Providers were part of the reason why they couldn't work.

And that's a real problem, we're trying to attract businesses to come here. And yet we can't attract a lot of families because we don't have opportunities for affordable childcare.

Exactly.

Okay. I think we need to probably end our conversation about childcare there and pivot into your whole nother thing; whatchya got Katelyn?

Since this is my last week in Greece, I figured I would focus still on Greece and I think graffiti is my whole nother thing this week. Oh. Yeah, I know. Random. If you've ever been to Athens, there is not a single space in this entire city that is not covered with some form of street art.

And it is something that the locals either absolutely love or cannot stand. I love it. I come here and there's something about the juxtaposition of the ancient ruins with this modern graffiti and street art that I just think really encapsulates Greece. And what Greeks are in this modern world.

But you talk to, and I say taxi drivers in particular, I was in a cab for a little too long the other day with a gentleman who did not Agree with me about the graffiti. And he said, it's like the broken window concept, once there's graffiti, everyone just assumes that this isn't a nice place to invest in.

And he is tired of there not being, that type of investment or fixing the buildings or whatever it is. And I was like, God, but Athens is just so pretty because of it. Like it's so colorful and energetic. We obviously deal with that in the big cities in the U. S. too, but I love the graffiti in Athens, that's where I rest.

First of all, stop rubbing in that you're in Athens. If you've ever been to Athens, I've never been to Athens, Katelyn, okay? Oh, I'm sorry. I'm sorry for you. Okay, to our listeners, I hope all of you have been to Athens so you're not feeling as jealous as I am right now over Katelyn. But what about like Banksy? Banksy is one of the most famous graffiti artists. And then there's this story that he was in Central Park one day, selling little pieces of art that he had done and no one recognized him and no one bought his art. A few people bought his pieces for like 15 and I think art it's always so amazing to me because it's supposed to evoke feeling and emotion. And I do not have what is considered an artist's eye because, walked through an art gallery and, some you can tell the difference of, but half the time I'm just not savvy enough or cultured enough, to be able to distinguish between respected art versus non respected art. And graffiti, I think always has had a moment where people are like, they're super talented people doing graffiti work. And yet it's still not part of the classic art scene.

I think Banksy's social status has been given to us. I'm not saying Banksy isn't talented. He definitely is. There are a lot of graffiti artists that are much more talented, who are absolutely nobodies in the relative scheme of the art world.

That's why I love graffiti because it's the people's art. And I do think In Athens, it is ubiquitous. It's everywhere. There is not a speck of a building that isn't covered in graffiti.

Oh.

So it is a lot, but I, again, Athens has this grungy feel to it, there's something always cooking here and the graffiti just adds to that feeling.

It feels to me like disrespectful art. When you see like a building that's been built, and then someone comes along and paints on a surface that isn't necessarily theirs to paint on. I don't know, it feels a little bit disrespectful,

No, I think you and the taxi driver are in serious agreement.

And I've never had this conversation with my in laws, but I have a feeling they would say the exact same thing.

It's us, these people, myself included, born in the 1900s. We're the oldsters.

The 1900s.

You too were born in the 1900s, Katelyn. Yes. So my whole nother thing this week is community amenities.

When I was growing up, there were a few country clubs that the super-rich people belong to, but for the most part, every kid I knew went to The city pool, we all got our little medals that our moms sewed on our bathing suits. We basically all wore our swim team bathing suit every day.

And you get like a dollar and get dropped off at the pool and you'd be there. Until your parents picked you up from work, and then you'd go home and just pass out because you spent like 12 hours swimming, and I feel like even though we have parks, we don't have a lot of those community amenities anymore we don't have things that makes.

Everyone's life feel, like there's a benefit. We have a lot more private clubs than we have community amenities. And I think that's something that our cities and towns really should be hyper focused on. And one of the reasons that I say this is, there's a new amphitheater in Goose Creek. And so I've been helping them a little bit with some of their concerts. They really are hyper focused on community amenities. They have an amazing recreation department. They have an amazing gymnastics team. They have a swimming pool. It really feels like they are trying to create a true community. That's available to everyone to use. I think that we as a state in our individual towns could take a lesson from that. All people want the same kind of stuff.

And I just feel like there's something that we can do from a governmental perspective to really make everyone feel like they belong there.

I think I've asked you this before. Do you listen to Malcolm Gladwell's revisionist history? Yeah. Yes. Did you ever listen to the episode of the downfall of the public pool?

Oh, I don't think so. I need to listen to it.

He unpacks the reason why public pools went by the wayside and I'm not going to ruin it for you. I'm sure there are listeners who already know, but If you haven't listened to Malcolm Gladwell's podcast, Revisionist History, it's definitely one I recommend.

And the pool episode is particularly good.

Okay. All right. Katelyn, until we speak again,

I'll see you in South Carolina.

Yes, you will. That's all the stew for today. Talk to you next week.