Michael Haack’s lifelong advocacy for Myanmar had a fortuitous start. With a growing interest in the divestment movement, he took advantage of an opportunity to take alternative winter break during his university years on the Thai-Myanmar border. While there, local people told him that they wanted foreign companies to stop doing business with the governing junta. Back at school, he aligned himself with a Free Burma coalition, and with a few other students managed to develop a successful campaign to stop multi-national companies from operating in the country.

Since then, the Burmese country and people would have a special place in his heart. Michael’s several-decade career supporting various causes and campaigns, and current position as Campaign Manager at The Campaign for a New Myanmar, are the fodder for this episode’s wide-ranging discussion.

The conversation starts by examining the role of the garment factory workers in the present resistance movement, and then spoke about railway workers staying home as part of the Civil Disobedience Movement (CDM), and the importance of rail lines running at less than full capacity. Michael also mentions a recent interview he conducted with Dr. Sasa, the present government leader-in-exile, and in profiling him, found his story so incredible that he thought it could be “sold to Hollywood.”

Michael names two other factors that inform a more complete understanding of Myanmar’s current crisis. First is the complicating nature of the Rohingya crisis. And second, in contrast to previous protests of 1988 and 2007, people are no longer fighting for something they never had, but rather fighting for something they don’t want to lose.

On this latter point, Michael uses it to push back at criticisms by more liberal colleagues in the West that the coup basically proves that “there never was a transition” to a free society in the 2010s. While it may be true that the liberalization did not go as far as some might have hoped, but “to say that there was no transition is to literally just rob huge swaths of Myanmar society…of their lived experience, their agency, and their understanding of what had happened over the last 10 years.”