What does it really look like to pursue excellence over a decade — through injury, uncertainty, quiet rebuilds, and breakthrough moments that seem sudden only from the outside?

In this episode of Trail Society, host Corrine Malcolm sits down with one of her closest friends and most compelling athletes in the sport: Abby Hall. Fresh off her 2025 Western States 100 victory, Abby reflects on the long road that led there — and why the “messy middle” matters just as much as the podium.

This conversation is less about one race and more about a philosophy: making it "cool to care," showing up honestly, and staying in it when things don’t go to plan.

Together, Corrine and Abby dig into the rhythms of professional running beyond the highlight reels — from late-day training runs and household logistics to mindset shifts, team alignment, and the vulnerability of saying “I want to win.”

Whether you’re chasing podiums, consistency, or just a deeper connection to why you run, this episode offers a powerful reminder: there’s no one right way to do this — but there is value in doing it fully.

It’s a thoughtful, funny, deeply human conversation about longevity, grit, and what it means to grow alongside a sport that’s also growing up.

Support our partners:

This episode is brought to you by rabbit. If you're looking to treat yourself after the holidays or upgrade your winter running kit, head to www.runinrabbit.com and use code TRAILSOCIETYJAN in January for 10% off.

Trail Society is newly a part of the Feisty Media podcast network. Learn more about Feisty, a women's sports and health media and education company, at feisty.co

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Foreign.

Hey.

Hi.

Hello.

Welcome back to Trail Society, produced by our friends over at Feisty Media.

An exciting announcement for us to make.

You'll get to hear from your favorite co hosts with Keely and Hillary joining me for an episode each month.

In addition to the Trail Society you know and love, we'll be moving to a weekly podcast for the rest of the year.

And that means more interviews, more running science and more behind the scenes looks into what is going on in the trail and ultra running scene.

We can't wait to have you along for the ride and as always, please, please, please go slide into our DMs over Trailsociety on Instagram with questions, guest suggestions or anything you would like to hear about on the show.

That means more great Trail Society and Rabbit apparel and podcasting collaborations, running scholarships and popping up at more events near you.

While we don't currently have an active code for January, you should and can scoot on over to runandra to check out their latest and greatest gear.

I've personally been living in their off the track collection including their downtime shorts and their Downtime quarter zip.

We've got an amazing interview for you today and that's what we're about to dive into.

Abby is a former graphic designer who for the last several years has gone all in on her running in pursuit of excellence, making it cool to care and puts herself wholeheartedly into her goals, something I admire about her immensely.

Abby makes her home in Flagstaff, Arizona with her husband Cordis, a true dream team and people I feel fortunate to call my friends.

I had such a fun time hanging out with Abby today and I hope you enjoyed the conversation just as much as I did.

Let's dive into the chat.

We're doing it Abby.

Welcome to the pod.

Hey, how's it going?

It's so good.

I feel like I'm cheating because you're one of my really good friends and what a great way to kick off 20, 26, though.

I know.

I'm really excited we're doing this.

Yeah.

So I guess I was texting you about this and I was like, what are things?

Like, how do I want to start these pods?

How do I start these interviews with people?

And the question I sent to you was, what is something you wish people knew about you?

And an example, because this is an icebreaker, right.

It can be kind of silly.

It can be kind of serious.

An example of what I wish people knew about me is that as a child, I was obsessed with the book My side of the Mountain, to the point where I thought I could and should live in a tree.

And I wanted my name to be Peregrine until I was far too old.

Oh, I love that so much.

So that's my wish.

Isn't that a Pacific Northwest book, too?

I.

Maybe I need to reread it, apparently.

Should.

You should reread it.

I can.

I can absolutely picture young Peregrine sitting.

Outside my house trying to feed squirrels.

That was my childhood.

I love that.

I. Yeah, I like this question because, yeah, I think especially, like, in the confines of a sport, it's, like, easy to just see everyone through that lens or like, the version we see when we all bump into each other at races or do interviews or whatever.

Um, I think probably for me, like, I think, like, Cordis and I are so goofy, and I feel like, like you, as my friend, see that side of me.

But I feel like if someone didn't know me and they just saw me, like, racing and stuff, they might think I'm, like, really serious or something.

But, like, like, yeah, I just.

I feel sometimes, like our private life is so full of, like, just weirdness and goofiness and.

Yeah.

Laughter.

And it's interesting to me to think about, like, how, like, our.

Our Personas, if you will, like, racing and training as athletes versus, like, who we are.

Like, you and I were just talking about before this in our five to nines.

Yeah, exactly.

And I was joking.

And actually, this is maybe a great place for this to go.

Is.

I was like, man, Abby Hall.

It's like, you would think that she has a 9 to 5 before her 5 to 9, because you run it like 4pm every day.

So, yeah.

Before people call us elitists and tell us that, like, professional running, you know, is.

Isn't as glamorous as it is correct to be.

What.

Like, what makes up that nine to five besides dance parties in the kitchen?

Because I know that that is a big part of the hall household.

Like, what is like, what does that day in the life look like before that?

You know, 3:00pm run in the rain.

Yeah, exactly.

I usually like, I'm a, I'm a sleeping person for sure.

Probably like also roots from like if I'm running and training in the evening and then it like means we're up later and I sleep later and then yeah, like during the day I'm like doing anything from like house projects to errands to like food prep and cooking and baking or like, yeah, emails, social media, all that kind of stuff.

And then yeah, like I'm.

I like joke that I'm like a type B runner.

Like I'm not someone who's like, I have to like, don't talk to me until I've had my run yet.

Like I, yeah, I had like an early meeting today and I was like, I am not myself yet.

I'm like a shell and I just feel like I kind of need a long warmup and I'm kind of a slow start.

And yeah, I think that like it's, there's no right or wrong way to like do your training.

And I think that it's like taken me a while to feel like, you know, how can I find the best version of myself in, in all things as an athlete, like in how I structure my days or how I like I remember once getting over to Europe for UTMB stuff and like I was in this streak of doing my runs in the mornings and I was just like after a week of it, I was like, something just feels off.

And like that Sunday I did like an early evening run.

I was like, this is it.

I'm feeling like me now.

And I think there's something for me also about like being out at sunset and all of that.

I like that rhythm and then going straight into like dinner cozy time.

Like that contrast is like set up nice for me.

Yeah, I mean, and you've always been this way.

I think it's kind of funny.

This is like our 10 year anniversary of being in the sport and you, you and Cordis were this way in Colorado.

Like you would routinely go get caught in like post afternoon thunderstorms.

The trailheads would be empty and you'd have like the playground to yourself.

Like this is, this has been part of your running journey as long as I've known you.

Exactly.

It's the ultimate like high country hack.

Like wait till the storm passes.

Don't start with the headlamp, end with a headlamp.

Exactly.

No one wants to be running at 5:00am no, no.

You psychopaths, um, be home during the.

Hours where you can caffeinate.

Like, I want to max out on those hours.

You're like, I need to have four coffees and then I can run at 3pm and then I'll stay up late and then I'll repeat the next day.

It is good.

Are you a resolutions person?

I think like Cordis and I went through, we'll often go through and kind of like make some goals across categories.

And I feel like they're probably more like we usually kind of already know what they are, but it's like I think the process of sitting down and writing them is always like really nice.

So yeah, we went through and made a list of.

Yeah, I would say goals more than resolutions.

Like I think of, you know, just like whether that's lifestyle adjustments or tweaks or things we want to like accomplish.

Whether that's like, you know, personal habits or running goals or like whatever.

Finances, house, like spiritual, emotional, Kind of like.

Yeah, I think it's fun to kind of go across those categories and just kind of do inventory.

Um, so that's kind of more what we do.

Yeah, no, I think that's how many of us jive with the idea of resolutions.

It's not like I'm changing my life, it's more like what do I want to align my next year around?

Yeah, yeah.

Like it's a really important pause point to like zoom out to that 30,000 foot view.

Yeah.

And obviously one thing I love about you and your running is that you've got this amazing team around you.

But you also, I feel like take complete, like you have autonomy in your decision making.

It is ultimately your responsibility to do X, Y and Z thing.

But you have this team around you and so, you know, beyond the like maybe season of life reflections when you finish a Cal.

And it's like what happens if I didn't race until October?

Like what is a season?

We're making it up as we go but like as a team, like as you as the athlete and then your high performance team around you, your coach, your strength coach, your sports psych, et cetera.

How do you all work independently and together to kind of realign on the next running season specifically of goals?

Like what is the intentionality there?

Definitely, um, I would say it kind of varies case by case across the.

The folks that I work with.

I think I'm especially like, you know, Coop and I had a meeting, like, kind of end of the season kind of chat that.

Where I'm always eager to be like, can we talk about, like, my weaknesses?

Like, please tell me and, like, give me that feedback so that we can, like, dig into those things.

Because, yeah, I think it's, like, a good opportunity to, like, view those things objectively and be like, yeah, where can we improve?

What needs work?

What.

What's already working?

Um, and I think, like, this year was unique in that, like, as.

As far as, like, the.

The training and things like that go, that's.

That's working, and there's not a ton that needs to change there.

Which then to me, then I'm looking to other.

Some of those other levers of, like, sports psych.

Where can we improve?

Like, nutrition.

Where can we improve?

So it's like, I think different years are, like, heavier or lighter in certain categories.

Um, like, you know, for example, coming back from injury, like, there's a lot more conversation around, like, what the training's gonna look like versus kind of this, like, rinse and repeat phase right now.

Um, so, yeah, that's happening, like, on an individual level as well as kind of like, we have some.

Some team meetings.

So the people that are kind of part of my, like, team that we would meet as a group would be my strength coach, my nutrition, nutritionist and Coop for my training.

And then I also work individually with a sports psych beyond that.

And what we do is kind of separate from the other coordination.

And I don't want to, you know, like, I don't know if this is, like, something that's been talked about too much or not enough.

Personally, I'm like, Abby return from injury.

You know, gets to race, like, is figuring it out, has some hard stuff, has some good stuff happen.

And obviously your season had a little bit of a slower start.

I feel like just you stayed more local before going over to Europe and then going to Australia, but people forget that.

And so I think people are like, broke her leg.

Leg exploded.

Yeah.

Western states winner.

And, like, they gloss over the, like, the rebuild, the keeping the dream alive, the returning to race, racing really well, having a hard utmb crushing this race In Australia, golden ticket chasing like you put in a lot of miles ahead of that Western States win.

And I feel like that kind of.

Some people picked up on it and some people, I feel like sensationalized it.

It's not like you're not an overnight success.

You've been like working the problems for a long time.

I'm just curious how that feels in hindsight now.

Absolutely.

I remember like when I first, you know, finished Western States and then like someone like hands me back my phone and I like open my phone and it was like something like already was like a, like the comeback or something and I was like, oh.

Huh.

Like, like that's a really fun angle on this.

And I think like, you're right.

There was a, a big space in the middle there of, you know.

Yeah.

Like between the recovery and that Western States, there was a good amount of, you know, training and racing and blocks that are a lot less glamorous.

Um, and it's a very necessary transition to, you know, where I was able to end up this year.

And yeah, like, definitely fewer people were around for, for that phase.

And I think it's like, you know, it's definitely easy to leap from one to the next and it's like catchy.

I get that.

And I, I also am like, was happy that people latched on to like seeing those hard moments and what it led to that like was really moving to me and it was like, yeah, really touching to like, you know, still like always getting messages from people that are like in it injury wise and like finding their way.

And I think it's like the kindest story that I would have probably like really latched onto, especially like when I was in it myself.

And so yeah, like, I'm happy that it serves as like a story to help people connect with that journey.

But then I think, yeah, going a layer deeper, there's kind of that messy middle and that's where a lot of really interesting work happened.

You know, it's like, get back to running great.

Get back to training great.

Now what?

And that's.

Yeah, that's like a complex gray area, if you will.

Yeah, now you just get to turn dials.

Life is so easy in comparison.

But I do think, I know that that was something that you craved during that kind of uncertain time period.

And even once you were back walking and therefore Back running.

I know you were in search of stories during that whole phase of people going through anything relatable or similar, and you have got friends and teammates who have just had, like, a string of bad luck recently.

I'm thinking of Dani Moreno who's, like, just keeps injuring some part of her lower leg effectively.

And being able to, like, now turn to your story and have that, I think is really special.

And I'm curious, were you able to find bits of those things during that injury, like, injury recovery phase that you were able to hold on to, besides now your story helping to set a great baseline for other people experiencing something similar?

Yeah, I think, you know, for some reason, I feel like it's easier sometimes to learn things like looking to other sports.

Like, sometimes when we're in our own sport, it's easy to, like, um.

Yeah, like, be too close to things.

But it was a really interesting time to me to turn to kind of like.

Yeah.

Across other sports, different injury stories, comeback stories, and, like, comeback definitely was like, a.

Like, an idea and word that I, like, latched on too early.

Like, I know.

I feel like there's, like, two camps.

There's people that are like, don't call it a comeback or, like, it's definitely comeback.

I'm definitely, like, team comeback.

I like comebacks.

I think it's like, I like that.

I like that chip on my shoulder of, like, yeah, we're, like, rolling up the sleeves and, like, I'm different this time.

This is not business as usual.

This is, like, you know, rewriting things.

And I. Yeah, like, definitely kind of searched far and wide to, like, learn any perspectives I could during that time of.

Of, yeah, how people move through those big things.

And, yeah, I think overall.

It'S.

It's like something I'm still, like, have an evolving relationship with.

I mean, I. I still am not, like, someone who necessarily looks back and is like, oh, I'm so glad that I went through that.

But I think that, like, I do feel kind of connected to this greater story across our sport that so many people have been through.

I mean, like, you know, I think because, like, my story gets framed by something like Western states that is, like, somehow viewed in a different light, but it's not.

It's the same story that, like, anyone who is, like, you know, finding their way through injury, through hard times, through, like, you know, a lapse in connection with their sport, like, they all.

Anyone knows that story well.

And so I also feel like I was able to just, like, have greater empathy for so many stories.

Across the whole sport.

I love that so much.

I also love this idea of, like, you're like, no, this is a comeback.

I am different.

And I just, like, we haven't actually, I feel like, ever post Western States gotten to, like, hit record on something like this.

The two of us.

And one, I don't know if you remember this at all, but you were sitting with me and Dylan before we interviewed you, and you were so worried that you hadn't hugged all the people you needed to hug.

Do you remember that?

I do.

Because I remember during the whole thing.

And then, like, like, whatever finish, like, Greek Cordis, my family.

And then, like, I sat down with you guys, and then I, like, realized, oh, my gosh, like, my crew is right there.

I didn't even hug my crew yet.

And so it was, like, then making me fear, like, who all of my missing right now.

My brain is just on overdrive.

Yeah.

And we were, like, in this tight time limit where there was like, they were like, no.

Once USADA notifies her that she has to do a drug test, we.

She has to be in the tent across the freaking infield in within 30 minutes.

And we're like, okay, so we're gonna try to, like, fit this all in.

Like, it was super stressful.

But I also.

Did we ever talk about the conversation I had with your parents while we were waiting for you to finish?

I don't know if we did.

Okay.

So I'm, like, hanging out.

I see your parents.

I'm like, okay, like, Kim, Jam, come over here.

We want you like, you want to be.

We want you to be able to hug Abby.

Like, just like, this is.

You know, this is Diane, this Diana, like, she's gonna let you in.

Like, welcome to Western States, baby.

Here's Craig Thornley.

And your mom and I were just laughing about how, you know, you have.

You weren't like, an immediate success at the hundred mile distance.

You, like, we had a lot of peers who just, like, seemed to knock it out of the park right away.

Claire Gallagher wins Leadville.

Cat Bradley wins Western States.

We're like, why aren't we winning these races?

All of our friends are.

And so I'm talking to your mom, and we're just laughing, and you're on your way from Ruby Point.

Like, you're gonna win.

Like, you've crested Rugby Point.

Fujiao has not caught you.

Eda has not caught you.

We're like, okay, it's happening.

Like, Abby is about to win Western States, and your mom is like, you know, Corinne, we were Thinking we were, you know, talking to Abby and we're like, you know, maybe just like the hundred mile distance isn't for you, like maybe you should try something else.

And I just like love this idea of like, I think, I mean, I feel like we've all witnessed this through your career.

Like watching you just really, really excel at like the 80k to 100k distance, kind of consistently have these really hard march it in a hundred miles.

And I just have this picture now of your mom being like, yeah, Abby, maybe you should try something else.

Like, here's the cougar.

Like, what is like, I don't know, just like, can we reflect on that a little bit that it has been this like long outside of injury.

Yeah.

The act of getting to a western states finish in the fourth fastest time ever.

Oh yeah.

Is kind of crazy.

It really is.

Yeah.

Like, even if we just like deleted the whole injury storyline, it's still a great story.

It's like, know me for a while.

Knowing me through other hundreds would be like, this is like a miracle.

She's not wearing a down jacket right now and we're not walking it in during golden hour.

Like what is happening.

Exactly.

I mean, yeah, I think that was our.

We met in my first hundred.

That wasn't.

That was like your second hundred.

That was my first Leadville.

That was your first too?

Yeah.

We were like both Solomon esque athletes and we were both like, we're gonna run Leadville.

Like, look at this go.

Yeah.

So cute.

Yeah.

I remember like I caught you coming into Winfield maybe or like past you on the Colorado Trail.

And I remember seeing Cordison Coop and I was like, Abby's right behind me.

Like, she'll be here soon.

It's so cute to like picture us out there back, way back when.

Yeah, yeah.

No, it's been a long and evolving journey with 100 mile distance and you know, I think it's become like weirdly normal to see people like comfortably stepping into this like high level, you know, kind of event, like western states.

But it's a really tricky thing to get right.

I mean, I wouldn't say that my fitness has changed all that much in recent years, you know, like.

Yeah, like there's been fine tuning, like dials, spinning dials.

Like I've, I've come, you know, I've certainly grown and I don't want to like dismiss that.

But like the tactical demands of a hundred mile race, competing at a hundred miles is really difficult to.

It was really difficult for me to get right.

And I Spent years kind of banging my head against a wall.

I think, I think part of the trickiness for me was realizing that what I thought was an abnormal experience is what the race is competing at.

And I think it's easy to race a hundred miles and feel like there's some, of course there's all kinds of situations that happen, but like, it's easy to feel like, you know, like you've somehow ended up in this spot that's like crazier than any other hundred mile story.

But like after enough years of realizing, like, okay, this is happening all the time, you know, for other people, how are they moving through this?

So then that turned my attention to mindset, to racing tactics, to dialing in nitty gritty nutrition specifics, to, you know, pacing.

Like, there's so many variables to get right.

Um, and yeah, I think like the, the race that I was able to do at Western states this year would not have been possible without all of those lows.

And yeah, hard earned walk it in finishes.

Yeah, very hard earned.

We, I, we talked on the phone for like 90 minutes, like a little catch up, like, I don't know, a couple weeks before Western states.

And I was like, I was like, yeah, your training's been crazy also.

Like, how is your brain doing?

And you were like, oh, today I decide if I run for three hours or six hours.

And today I decided I have rice or pasta.

And it's just like you get into this like, you know, your five to nine is really all consuming all of a sudden.

Talk to us a little bit.

Talk to us, like all my listeners right now about.

I was like, wow, that's very podcasty of me.

Like, I'm curious what that actually means in practice when it comes to dialing in those little things, to being the only car in the parking lot at noon so that you're running in the heat and you know, finessing the nutrition component of it and just really like you're not making huge changes.

You're like turning the specificity dial up to 11 maybe.

And I'm just curious, what did that feel like in April and May as you prepped for Western states in June?

I think a big part of the process of training that maybe looks crazy on paper is trying to slowly normalize it to yourself, which is like, it's weird kind of bumpers you have to put on.

Almost like, to use a bowling analogy, like, you almost can't let your mind go there of like, all right, I'm going to be running for eight hours in the Heat.

And I have all my.

Like, I have a, you know, core temperature pill in my stomach and these, like, ice sachets and a cooler in the back of my car in an empty parking lot.

And it's, like, super hot.

And I ran eight hours the day before.

Like, you just kind of can't let your mind go there.

You're like a frog.

We're gonna, like, mix analogies here.

Like, your bumpers are on, your blinders are on.

You're like a frog being boiled in water.

Like, you don't even know it's hot anymore.

Like, that's kind of a wild thought experiment.

Exactly.

And the only way really through it is to, like, break it down into those really small pieces of, like.

All right, what do I know?

Right now?

Right now I'm gonna go run one more hour until I grab some fresh bottles and I'm gonna go here and I'm gonna listen to this podcast or I'm gonna not listen anything at all and turn off my brain.

And, like, you're just taking things one moment at a time until you're zooming out and kind of realizing, like, the breadth of the work that you've done, which is kind of like.

Yeah, like, you know, in the taper, zooming out and being like, wow, that was a lot.

And I made it through it and we did it.

Um, but yeah, like, to your point, with like, tuning dials and stuff, like the.

The five to nine to support that level of volume of training and specificity of training is a lot.

And I. I did like, a kind of.

The most recent, like, bigger volume week I did was actually just this fall for no real racing reason, but Cordis and I went back out on course out to keep talking about Western states, but it's kind of relevant.

We love it.

No, we're digging in.

Um, but yeah, like, went back out, got an Airbnb in the course and went and had, like, some nice late fall days.

Um, mainly because I really like being home during, like, the build and wanted to get, like, extra time on course in places where some of these places, you know, I've only run in the race now.

And so it's like, yeah, I just wanted to go back and make some other memories.

And this was like, another big volume week that I did.

And it was interesting how it felt.

Yeah, like, as I've started to log more of those big blocks, like, it does start to feel more routine where, you know, like, all right, the watch stops.

Like, this is like, how we're feeling right away.

I'VE got this food already prepped in the fridge.

Like, we're just keeping the, you know, keeping the stomach full.

Like, here's how to turn off my brain right away.

And there's just kind of like these little nuanced things that the only way you kind of get good at them is just like going through it again and again.

So I often think that, like, the, the most important part of, like, volume and preparation for a race isn't like the miles themselves, but it's like managing yourself amidst the volume.

And then you get to the race and you're like, yeah, I know what this feels like to, you know, close the trunk aid station and head out for another loop or whatever it is.

Like, it's that, that calibration to, you know, doing something that's crazy.

And yeah, I think, okay, this is like Barry Inside baseball because again, I know you and Cordis well.

I coach Cordis.

I've spent, I spent time at your house.

Like, I know how you two operate as a unit and people are probably thinking, who don't know you.

They're like, wow, Abby runs full time.

Like, she must have like a house husband.

Like, Cordis just like takes care of her.

That's like, not how you guys operate at all.

Like, Cordis works a full time job and then runs.

And he does very much support your running.

Oftentimes when I'm looking at his long runs for the weekend, for example, he's like, oh, I dropped Abby off to do a point to point, and then I ran an out and back.

Like, he is, he is like, I am.

I am Team Abby.

We love it.

But also, like, he's not a house husband.

Like, you keep you guys fed.

Well, like, when you're gone at training camp or something, we're like, how many meals did Abby prep for Cordis so that he can do, you know, Camp Coco and do what he needs to do?

And so it's a whole.

You guys have this very interesting dynamic in that way where it's like, yeah, part of what you do, like your 9 to 5 is like keeping the hall household afloat in a lot of ways, keeping everyone fed.

But when you're in this, like, huge block and you're like, managing getting out the door every day to do this long run, like, I mean, Cordis can step up, obviously, but, like, what's the dynamic there of like, keeping the, the whole household afloat while you're out running for six to eight hours and trying to keep everyone fed by everyone?

I mean, like, you and Cordis, who like, just consume a lot of food.

Well, this is.

I.

This is just like a funny, really specific anecdote.

I'll start this answer with I like one of my biggest long runs, like this spring.

You know, it's like one of those ones where you're like, you get it done.

You're just like, oh, I can't wait to just like get home and cozy up.

And I had driven the van.

Cause it was like kind of this remote place where I wanted to like, you know, crew myself from the van.

And I hear this big bump right when I turn into our street at the end.

And I was like, huh, what was that?

And like a kind of a crash in the back.

And I like, oh, well, you know, well, let me get home and see.

And like, really, you know, like, the hips are tight.

You're kind of like, I'm just ready for a hot shower.

And like the rest of the night is like, flatten, flattening myself.

And I like, look through the back curtain and a jar of marinara sauce had tipped out of the top shelf of the pantry and cracked open.

Glass shards everywhere.

It looks like you took a gun and shot a marinara sauce.

Marinara sauce is on the walls, on the floor, like the cabinets.

And I'm just like, all right, sick.

Cordis, can you come help me with this?

And.

And yeah, I think, I feel, I guess like I was thinking of that because I think he definitely helped me.

But there's also a tone of kind of like, well, you kind of got to clean this up.

And there's kind of this like, put on your big girl pants of like, yeah, as much as it's like you want to just like go home and like, you know, curl up and collapse and like, have no responsibilities.

Like, it's kind of a mental shift to be like, yeah, but like, you still gotta kind of take care of your business and there's still some to dos.

Or like, I gotta get some food going, gotta do laundry, gotta whatever.

And I think it's like almost more of a mental shift to like, yeah, make sure like, you know, we're each still handling our things.

Like, that being said, I think, like, looking ahead to this weekend, courtesy and I both have like, big trading weekends.

We were like, compare cross referencing calendars.

And we were like, great.

We're both going to be doing a lot.

This will be fun.

Yes, yes.

He has a big weekend coming up.

But I do love too that there are just things where it's like, yeah, like you cook food, Cordis does all the dishes.

It's like you're not washing any bottles.

Exactly.

Oh, yeah.

The bottle washing is a big one.

That was like.

I feel like if I were to like select any responsibility to like, you know, outsource it would be washing soft flasks.

I hate it and I feel like they're always nasty and I just don't want.

That's like the last thing I want to do when I get in.

I don't want that reminder.

I don't want the reminder of that.

No.

It's way more fun to just take off the vest, put it on the floor, leave those bottles in there.

That's another day's problem.

But future.

Future Abby's problem for sure.

Yeah.

But Cordis was my soft flask concierge.

Yeah.

As long as my soft flask make it into the sink, Stephen will wash them.

That's kind of our arrangement.

This is our new rule too.

Like I have to put them there.

Like they'd have to be by the sink before, you know, before dishes time.

That's my only responsibility.

I love it.

I love it.

Okay, we're going to switch gears a little bit, but I think it'll still be, still be a fruitful conversation.

I wanted to reflect a little bit more too on this kind of like progression in your running again.

We've been in this thing for a decade now.

You've marched some stuff in, but I've also like watched you evolve as an athlete from like the soft life, hard life athlete.

A hard life being like when you go to the desert with, with Cordis and you guys just walk around for several days, sometimes successfully, sometimes unsuccessfully, but you've definitely.

And while that's been a huge part of your, of your progression and it's still something that you guys tap into, you've become much more of a performance oriented athlete.

And what I mean by that is it's not, it's not.

It's less now about what you can do and it's more about how well you can do it.

And I think we've jokingly offline called this like making it cool to care.

But I'm wondering about your current approach to sport and how that's evolved over the last, you know, five or six years in particular.

Yeah, I, yeah, definitely resonate with like, yeah, what we've talked about before of.

Yeah, it being cool to care.

I think, I think that like, racing never felt like the main thing at first.

When I was getting into trails and ultra distance stuff, it felt like a supporting act.

To pursuing goals like the John Muir Trail or wanting to, like, scramble and, like, be up in the mountains all the time.

And I think slowly, as I've.

I've just kind of gotten addicted to the process of just of, like, pursuing goals and pursuing excellence and getting the most out of myself.

And that's felt like that's partly because it's a little bit more measurable at racing, but also, I think, partly because the trail and ultra racing scene has become such an exciting thing, enthralling thing to be a part of.

Um, and I have grown more as an athlete through kind of the vulnerability required to be towing the lines at these races.

And, you know, sometimes literally and figuratively.

Literally or figuratively, falling flat on my face sometimes, you know, like, nailing it and everything in between.

You're putting yourself out there, right?

Like, it's a big.

Like, that's the vulnerability piece.

Like, you're not hiding behind, like, oh, this is a fun thing that I'm doing.

It's like, no, I'm.

I'm here to show up.

And that is very vulnerable.

It is.

And that has been.

I've grown so much as a person through that, and that's been.

Yeah, like, the.

The guiding story for me through season after season.

I think, like, the.

Probably the last, like, you know, like, two and a half years, like, post injury, it's kind of come from this, like, place of, like, life is short, and I have no idea, like, how many or few opportunities of this I have left.

Like, I've got to make them count and that, you know, opportunity to hop on a plane and go test myself against the best athletes in the world.

I know that that will not last forever.

Um, and I've been eager to ride that as long as I can.

Um, unfortunately, it feels like, more exciting than ever to be feeling like there's no.

There's plenty.

There's so many athletes proving that the end is not close in sight.

Like, 50.

Like that.

Yeah, exactly.

And, like, you know, injury definitely puts a lot of that into perspective.

But, like, I'm sure touch wood, there will be, like, more iterations of that cycle in the years to come.

But, like, right now, I'm just.

I'm loving the pursuit of it so much, and, yeah, just enjoying the process more than ever.

Enjoying the training more than ever.

And, yeah, I think what started is kind of this fun, outside of work, way to touch base with my, like, the outdoor loving part of myself has become very much the main course to, like, my personality.

I. I also love this like, little element, because you have always done things to set yourself up to be excellent or like, the pursuit of being excellent.

Like, you were like, I'm gonna move to Boulder because if I want to be a good trail runner, that's where they are.

Which is funny because it wasn't like you had, like, I don't know, done a bunch of trail racing and where, like, the next, you know, up and coming ascendant young person, you were like, I'm gonna move to Boulder because people in Boulder do this sport.

And then you showed up in Boulder and you, like, figured it out.

And it's like, I know that even as a child, you were like this as well.

You know, I again, have heard a lot of stories from your parents of the.

The young visionary Abby hall as well, who was gonna, you know, become a professional basketball player, who was gonna go to the Olympics.

Like, you just had this.

You've had this mindset since you were a small child, even if it was never indicated in anything that you were, you know, in any results per se.

I'm curious, what about the pursuit of excellence has captured your imagination?

Because you're a very creative person, and I do feel like you're pouring that imagination into this ongoing pursuit.

I really like being, like, at the epicenter of some kind of niche.

Like, I really like being part of a smaller circle within this big world where I get to, like, nerd out on things, have a community of people that I like with, like, shared reference points, shared dreams, visions, shared hardships that, like, really gets me going.

And I think of past iterations of, like, what that niche has been for me over the years.

Whether that's like, you know, like Dave Matthews Band, like, going as many DMV shows as I can, or, like, I think of, like, the LA photo scene, or, like, I think of just different little niches that I found myself in and really enjoyed immersing myself in.

And I think it's just a. Yeah, it's just been.

I don't.

I'm not sure why I'm drawn to that way of moving through the world, but I find it's like a really fun.

I want to, like, get to know a topic and then, like, find people who are masters of that and try and learn as much as I can and that I think I've just maybe found the.

The niche that has captured me the most long term at this point in my life.

At least.

Maybe there'll be a new one that captures me even more.

You'll have a new North Star.

We're allowed to have chapters.

That's what's so beautiful about the life that we get to live.

I was thinking about this other day too, because you are like a try hard person.

And at no point any race have I been like, abby's not.

That's her try hard face.

Like, her trihard faces are on her arms, her little wings are out.

I can call an Abby hall runner from a mile away on a drone shot.

But it's this notion that I think, particularly in women's sports, like, I don't know, the descriptor is always like, oh, she smiled her way around the mountain.

It's this like.

But you are like, focus, determination, like, everything that you are going through is, is on your face and it's normally this like, gritty experience.

And I'm just like laughing, trying to imagine someone like, describing Jim Walmsley running utmb, like, and Jim smiled his way around the mountain and I'm wondering, like, how have you dealt with that friction, like that juxtaposition that, that thing that people, I feel like, push back with female athletes in particular on where they're like, our friend Kimmy Schreiber, German athlete, has been, you know, publicly called out, or at least on her social media, people will be like, why do you look so sad?

You were just fourth.

And she's like, I just suffered immensely.

Like, tell me how you feel about this notion.

Oh, it's so interesting because it does kind of remind me of those early races that we were talking about earlier where it's like, why does this feel so horrible?

But everyone else, you know, seems to be like, really happy or really comfortable or really like, what am I doing wrong?

This is the hardest thing I've ever done.

And I feel like I remember once just like a kernel of advice from Coop on this.

It was before.

I can't even remember what race it was before.

But his kind of like parting text before the race was kind of like, go be yourself out there.

And I really liked that.

Um, I think it can be easy to feel like there's a right or wrong way to race, you know, like, enjoy every second or.

And of course, I think we can hold a lot of these things at the same time.

You know, we can smile and be suffering.

And I think everyone's approach to that is going to be personal.

Like, for, you know, for some people that's like, what gets them going through the hard moments is zooming out to that, like, greater joy of why they're there.

And for me, I've found That I'm able to, like, dig a level deeper when I'm turning off that part of my brain that is, like, care what people think.

Make sure you, like, look sweet and fun and, like, approachable.

You know, like, if I can turn off that, like, that layer that maybe is like just, you know, pre programmed in, like, being born as a girl or whatever you want to call it, like, then I can, I can go a layer deeper.

And I think I had some personal breakthroughs and that area for me this season where I felt more than ever, like, comfortable with emotions like anger and like, rage and figured out how to, like, channel whatever it was I was honestly feeling, rather than feeling like I needed to turn it off and replace it with, like, a more positive or, you know, socially acceptable emotion.

And yeah, I think, you know, our, our relationships with a sport are always going to be really personal and nuanced and emotional, you know, in ways that only us in our stories will fully comprehend.

But I think for me, it was a season of really, like, using what I was actually feeling rather than, like, fighting it and trying to turn it into something else.

I love that.

I also love that you were like, what am I doing wrong ever?

Lucy Bartholomew looks so happy.

What am I doing wrong?

Courtney looks so happy.

Like, why am I suffering?

We're told this is supposed to be fun, and yet I'm like, just.

I'm like, trying not to quit the sport during this race.

I'm trying not to retire from ultra running multiple times during Leadville, which was definitely my experience.

And I like this notion of.

Yeah, no, just like embracing the moment that you're in and understanding that we sign up for a sport that might inherently be kind of hard.

I think that's like a.

People don't accept that maybe at face value.

Well, and I, I think that, like, you know, like, the two ladies you just mentioned are so good at being like the, you know, like, faces of the sport that, like, draw in other people and make them want to be part of it.

Which is like, what's so, you know, compelling about, you know, athletes like them?

Is it, like, makes people see the beauty in the pain?

And I do believe that that exists.

And I think, yeah, it's just like a unique relationship with it for everyone.

And I think, I think people should feel, like, free to have whatever kind of relationship they want to have with that, whether that's helpful to, like, zoom out to that joy or whether they don't even want to think about that there's not a right or wrong way to do it.

Yeah, I love it.

I want to kind of reflect back to this moment during the injury cycle where you said you were looking to other sports for inspiration or camaraderie or a sense of, I don't know, understanding of what you were going through.

And I know that you and I are both big fans of a parallel sport to trail running, that of women's professional cycling, specifically gravel and off road cycling.

Shout out.

Talking over you podcast.

Shout out.

Shout out.

No one's going to get that except for like three people.

Shout out.

Um, but I know, I asked, I asked Cordis this, but I know that you're a fan of Sophia who rides for Specialized.

She's a lifetime Grand Prix champion.

And I'm curious, you know, you're.

You are in the upper echelon of trail and ultra running.

And I'm wondering as a fan of a adjacent sport, an endurance sport, a sport that's very kind of young in the same way that ultrarunning is young but ascendant.

Like, how do you look up to someone like Sophia as a, as an athlete, but she's definitely like a peer or a contemporary to your position within trail and ultra running.

I, yeah, Cordis and I have fallen in love with the, like the.

Well, following the lifetime Grand Prix.

And then they've put out an incredible YouTube series for even if you know very little about the sport, you could turn on season one, episode one of that series and immediately get hooked into the storylines of so many incredible athletes.

And I think for fans of, of trail running, it is a, like you said, a very trail adjacent sport culture that like, trail people will quickly latch onto.

So I really encourage people to tune into that if they're not already.

And then of course, you know, we get really exciting crossovers where it's like, hey, there's Heather Jackson, like, and it's super fun.

There's like, you know, I think a lot of shared values and even faces across those sports.

Um, but yeah, like, you mentioned Sophia and like, I think one thing I really admire about her is like, how she shows up first and foremost to compete and absolutely throw down.

Um, and I think that she, you know, does so in a way that like, I mean, for me, like, spectating her journey as an athlete, as a fellow female athlete, makes me feel more free to pursue my sport, you know, with reckless abandon and, you know, trying to bring the most out of myself first and foremost as a competitor, not only out of duty to myself, but out of duty to, like, my fellow competitors.

Like, we all want to show up the best we can to, like, throw down and, like, bring the most out of ourselves.

And I think sometimes, like, watching another sport, like, makes some of those lessons and values, like, more clear somehow.

So that's something I've really enjoyed picking up through.

Yeah.

Through following that sport.

Yeah.

Maybe this goes back to, like, the smiling piece, but I'm.

I'm curious.

I feel like the women's sport has evolved in a major way through the time that we've been in it.

I mean, there have been Crushers and Tracin, Nikki Kimball, people who came before all of us and were.

Were competitors, were fierce, fierce competitors.

I don't think people recognize that, like, Nikki and Ann, you know, like, they were showing up and they were going to beat you.

Like, you guys can maybe have a beer later.

But they were, they were there to race you.

They weren't there to, like, sing Kumbaya.

And I think that the women's field has had this moment of growth in which we can champion one another.

And we do.

We are friends.

Like, many of us are very close off, off the race course as well.

But I'm wondering how it's been being in that position where you have gotten to watch as you have gotten more serious and more performance oriented.

The sport has gotten, I think for women in particular, more serious and more performance oriented.

And I'm wondering, I don't know if you, like, there's anything that you've noticed during that or if you're like, oh, yeah, I think that's because of X.

We can speculate all we want.

But I'm just, I'm curious because you have, like, definitely, like your trajectory, I feel like, follows so closely the sports trajectory over the last, let's call it six years as far as, like this performance orientation, this competitive orientation, this, like, yeah, women should have goals.

And in your previous interview, you should tell me you want to win, you know, like, not just get the best out of yourself.

Like, I want you to tell me you want to win.

Exactly.

I mean, I often feel like when looking at the men's, like, Kim, comparing men's and women's fields, like at, you know, top level races over the last years, I think for a while it felt more common that there'd be 10 men who want to win the race and 10 women who want to be in the top 10.

And I think that shift is starting to turn as we see more women feeling comfortable saying, yeah, my goal is to win, or my goal was to win.

And I like, you know, Had a really tough time out there.

And again, going back to that, like, vulnerability, like, I know there are more women with that goal than are saying that they have that goal.

And I want us to all feel free to share openly about this journey that we're, we're all on.

We all have so much more in common than I think we realize.

And we all have these big dreams in the sport.

That's not unique to just like who's saying in an interview and who's not.

But I think that has been the biggest way that I've seen the female fields grow.

And I also just feel like it's helping level up the sport, which is then good for creating a wake of opportunities behind it.

And it just, it elevates everything when the, the tip of the spear of a sport can keep, you know, going further and further.

So that really excites me right now.

And I think, you know, the other piece is like, for me, I like always try to view things of me versus me and that's like unique in a space where it's like, yeah, it's me versus me, but I'm also like toeing the line with a bunch of people.

We're going to be timed and ranked.

There are going to be sign to this journey that we're all enjoying so much.

And yeah.

So I think that like, like be feeling free to enjoy competing as the thing itself has been a freeing, you know.

Yeah.

A freeing shackle to free myself from, if you will, like just.

Yeah, like enjoying the thing itself for what it is of competing.

Yeah, I think that's, I think it has been a healthy evolution for the sport and I do love that you're like, yeah, like it is me versus me and me versus the course and me versus the mountains or whatever it is.

But at the end of the day, I'm going to be ranked somewhere between 1st and 365th at Western states.

And it's like I would like to be closer to first than 365th.

Exactly.

Yeah, it is, it is one of those, like, don't put me in a box, but being out of the box is kind of my thing.

Yeah, exactly.

And then there's also something freeing about being like, yeah, we're like, we're going to all have numbers next to our names at the end of this and that's as big or little of a deal as we want to make of it.

Like that is, you know, in some ways everything, in some ways nothing.

And you know, I think the, at the end of the day Being able to recognize races for like, you know, what they taught us, how they allowed us to grow in our careers, you know, opportunities that they gave us, like, those are the memorable things.

And I'm always amazed by how looking behind me, there's a lot of numbers that start to become fuzzy over time where it's like, what was my time here?

How did I do there, there?

Yeah, but of course I know it's, it's like, it's also a really special measuring stick too.

So it's like there's, there's a time and a place for, for, however, I don't know, however much we want to read into it.

Totally, totally.

And that'll change.

That evolves over the span of our careers from being brand new to the sport to continuing to love the sport as we quote, unquote, age out of professional running, whatever that means.

As a newly unprofessional runner, I'm finding whole new ways to, to compete and have North Stars kind of finishing up slowly here.

I've got at least two more questions pending any tangents.

The first one being, you know, kind of reflecting a little bit on your future goals and kind of legacy in the sport.

I think it's really easy to say, I hope people remember my X performance at X race, you know, so beyond race specific results, like, what aspect of this journey do you hope will be part of your lasting legacy in the sport of ultrarunning?

That's an awesome question.

But in theory, what would you like that takeaway to be?

I think probably the idea of like continuing and keeping going through thick and thin has been what's, what's gotten me here now and is still the most exciting guiding theme for my, my journey as an athlete and I think is a really simple message, but I think will be one that continues to guide me through other chapters of my life ahead.

You know, I think like believing that like, you know, the best is yet to come.

Like all those kind of sentiments really resonate with me because I'm not sure what I would have done without them during some low times on the way.

And not to mention just like the, like, like discuss the, the evolution over races and like the ability to like get slapped in the face and then like get back on the starting line again next time.

I, I hope would be something that, you know, people maybe remember one day.

I'm maybe just as Proud of some of those times as I am the, the high moments.

And yeah, just like, also, I think that, like, good things take time.

That's another real guiding one for me of.

Yeah, this isn't just a good, you know, good training block before a race or a good season.

This is like on the shoulders of, of the bumpy road that came before it.

To mix metaphors.

It is a sports shoulders.

It's a sports podcast after all.

As is playing bowling with bumpers.

Yes, exactly.

I'm always like, how can we mix as many sports metaphors and other metaphors as possible?

My favorite one is.

This is the molehill I'm willing to die on.

We'll burn that bridge when we get to it.

Yeah, exactly.

We'll burn that bridge when we get to it.

That is.

I'm gonna get that tattooed stat.

That's amazing.

Sick.

Okay.

We'll collaborate.

Joy.

Joy Martin, if you're listening to this, we have a tattoo idea.

Okay.

So I was gonna say challenge accepted.

I will see you and Cordis at Across the years with our.

Our walkers in like 2,075.

You guys down.

So down.

So down.

Sick.

We'll get that buckle.

Okay, final question.

As my dog makes a nice little bed behind us on a down blanket.

She got lonely upstairs, apparently.

This is a question that I, we ask everyone that comes on the podcast.

And it's something that I think is.

Is really an.

A great little reflection.

And it's this idea of like, we're all evolving.

We're learning that could be in life, that could be in sport, but it's the idea of what is something that you know now that you wish you knew when you were getting into the sport.

And that could be the gal that blindly moved from LA to Boulder and met a boy in a spongebob T shirt and thought he was really cool.

That could be.

You know, when you were taking that first maybe ill fated stab at the Nemo Pollo or the jmt, like, what.

What do you know now as a, as a person, as an athlete that you wish you could tell that.

That younger Abby?

It'll take longer than you want it to, but it's worth it.

But so simple.

I love it.

Yeah.

Did I tell you when we had Katie shied on, she said nothing.

They gotta learn it.

Exactly.

Exactly.

I mean, yeah, that's like maybe to summarize the last 10 years, that's maybe what I would say.

I think another thing, like, maybe less like trail running related would just be like the coolest thing you can do is be yourself.

Um, I feel like I spent way too many years, like in my 20s, like, really like caring how people perceived me or what they thought of me as.

And I feel like, yeah, just feel a lot more comfortable in my skin than I used to.

And that makes everything more fun when you're not like, worried about, I don't know what other people think of him.

Yeah, that's incredibly important for those listening at home on a.

Probably on a run.

We get a lot of people listening on on run, so they should eating a snack right now.

I always remind them they need to have a snack.

But where can we cheer for you next?

Where are we gonna see you next?

I am racing Black Canyon in a little less than five weeks, so I'm super excited.

Starting off the year with a true, like, you know, just throwing myself into the fire.

It's like I was explaining, I was explaining to my dad yesterday, I was like, I think a race like Black Canyon might be the kind of race I get the most nervous for, where it's just like tight racing the whole time, fast and furious, you know, like not far from home, which feels also vulnerable in a like, scary way where I'm like, I'm used to just kind of quietly being like, you know, in.

My little bubble on a lot of.

These trails and I'm going to go, like, try to run as fast as I can on them.

That feels crazy.

But yeah, like last year, coming out of that race, just started the year with just such a, like, you know, warp speed, pace of growth for what the season became that I'm, I'm hungry for more.

Sweet.

Well, I'll get to see you at Deep Canyon Ranch.

I can't wait.

I remember vividly seeing you there last year.

I'll be there, I'll be there.

They can't keep me in the booth.

I will be there.

CHEERING okay.

Thank you, Abby, so much for joining us today.

This is amazing.

Thank you.

This is the best.

It's hard to catch up with Abby for only an hour, but we hope you enjoyed the conversation as much as we did.

Thank you to Rabbit for joining us as our official apparel and presenting partner of this episode.

A huge, huge, huge shout out to our official producing partners over at Feisty Media.

Please go follow them over on Instagram Eistymedia and check out their four other incredible podcasts.

We'll catch you next week or until then, we'll see you out on the trails, Sam.