Hello pod! It is Day 19 of Black History Month and we’re continuing our series giving our flowers to Black Directors! Tonight’s episode is about the documentary filmmaker, Sam Pollard, the director behind MLK/FBI, The League, Lowndes County and the Road to Black Power, Black Art: In the Absence of Light and the docuseries Atlanta’s Missing and Murdered: The Lost Children.

Our guest is Christopher Rush, a Rochester native who is deeply invested in the success of underrepresented communities in Rochester. He serves the community as a part of the Rochester Monroe Anti-Poverty Initiative (RMAPI) supporting organizations and individuals committed to creating conditions for upward mobility in Rochester and Monroe County. Chris is a documentary filmmaker and also the host of the CRUSH HOUR on WAYO 104.3 FM connecting with leaders working to make Rochester a better place.

Subscribe and listen to Christopher’s Show, Crush Hour on WAYO 104.3 FM, here: https://wayofm.org/shows/crush-hour. You can follow him on Instagram here: https://www.instagram.com/_rushunlimited and follow his show on Instagram here: https://www.instagram.com/_crushhour

If you’re watching on YouTube, make sure you hit that subscribe button. Wherever you’re listening from, hit that subscribe button, give us a 5-star rating, share this episode and leave a comment to let us know what you thought of tonight’s episode. Follow us on Facebook, Instagram, & Threads.

Visit ourvoicesproject.com and sign up for our newsletter for more information about what we do. We’ll be back with more episodes every Thursday with old and newly released movies that center Black, Brown, and Indigenous folks, general movie news, and interviews with film festival programmers/curators, film critics, and filmmakers!

Next week continues our series on Black filmmakers –their stories and contributions to cinema. We’re handing flowers to filmmakers that we should be talking about—some you may have heard of and some you may not have heard of. Either way, you won’t know until the show premieres so make sure you subscribe!

Chapters:

00:00 – Intro

02:16 – Giving Sam Pollard His Flowers

06:18 – MLK/FBI (2020)

27:39 – The League (2023)

46:10 – Lowndes County and the Road to Black Power (2022)

59:59 – Black Art: In the Absence of Light (2021)

Mentioned in this episode:

Our Voices Project - Land Acknowledgement

Behind the Glass

Behind the Glass, hosted by Richard B Colón and Quajay Donnell, is a monthly talk with the current month’s BTG Roster. Artists are interviewed about their submissions and we dive deep into their process, inspiration and thought process centralized around their artwork in the Behind the Glass Gallery located in the heart of Downtown Rochester NY. https://behind-the-glass-gallery.captivate.fm/

Hello pod.

It is day 19 of black history Month and we're continuing our series giving our flowers to Black Directors.

I'm your host, Jackie McGriff, and if this is your first time listening or watching, welcome to Representation in Cinema.

We talk about the films that center Black, Brown and Indigenous voices, as well as the film industry itself.

I'm not only your host, but I'm also the founder, director and co producer of Our Voices Project, a production company that shares the stories and lived experiences of Black, Brown and Indigenous peoples through visual storytelling and truth telling.

We are community engaged filmmakers who firmly believe that you can't center films on these communities without being in community and in solidarity with them.

If you're watching this on YouTube, make sure y' all go ahead and hit that subscribe button and little bell to get notified about new episodes once they drop.

If you're listening on your preferred podcast platform, hit that follow button.

Rate us five stars and leave a comment to share your thoughts about any of the things that we bring up in this episode and in others.

Tonight's episode is about the legendary documentary filmmaker Sam Pollard, the director behind mlk, FBI, the League, Lowndes county and the Road to Black Power, Black Art in the Absence of Light and many others, as well as the docuseries currently on hbo, Atlanta's Missing and the Lost Children.

Before I get into some background about Sam Pollard, I'm going to reintroduce our guest returning to the podcast, Christopher Rush.

Christopher is a Rochester native who is deeply invested in the success of underrepresented communities in Rochester.

He serves the community as a part of the Rochester Monroe Anti Poverty Initiative, also known as rmapi, supporting organizations and individuals committed to creating conditions for upward mobility in Rochester and in Monroe County.

Chris is a documentary filmmaker and also the host of the Crush hour on WH 104.3 FM, connecting leaders working to make Rochester a better place.

Welcome back to the podcast, Chris.

Thank you so much for having me.

I definitely appreciate it.

Just want to start and say my opinions are my own and not that of my employer.

Awesome.

Yeah, the disclaimer, that's fine, that's fine.

That's totally fine.

I get it.

Okay, so on to Sam Pollard.

All right, 32.

He states, I grew up in America, like a lot of people, where our history has always been considered secondary and the challenge that I was faced with it and that I grabbed onto wholeheartedly was that our experience is the American experience.

And if you don't understand our experience, you're only getting a slice of what America is all about.

When I grew up, everyone in my school years were Abraham Lincoln and Franklin Delano Roosevelt and George Washington.

It took until my teens and being involved with other African Americans to learn about Langston Hughes, Zora Neale Hurston, George Washington Carver, W.E.B.

dubois or Dubois, just depending on who you talk to.

Nat Turner, Malcolm X and Dr. King.

You know, I had to learn that history which I've passed onto my own children.

Not only is he passing this history to his children, but he's also educating generations young and old through his very detailed and thoughtful examinations of a myriad of different aspects of black life.

From examining Art in Black, the Absence of Light, to music through films like Old Dirty Bastard, A Tale of Two Dirties, Max Roach, the Drum, Also Waltzes and Sammy Davis Jr.

I've gotta be Me, to sports like Bill Russell, Legend, Citizen Ash and the League and of course, our History with films like mlk, FBI, Lowens county and the Road to Black Power, Circumstances south to Black Power and Slavery by Another Name.

These are only a few in his vast catalog of films.

Pollard's films bring together so many intergenerational voices intertwined with archival footage and photographs reminiscent of an older relative inviting you into the living room to sit down for an hour and a half to get an education.

Pollard's films not only teach you a thing or 12, but they remain with you longer after the credits roll.

Sam grew up in Harlem during the fight for civil rights and the turbulence of the Vietnam War.

Mr. Pollard turned to movies like Park's Coming of Age Story, the Learning Tree, the Songs of Marvin Gaye and the courage of Dr. King to build a life with purpose.

Following an early interest in electrical engineering and enrollment at Borough of Manhattan Community College, he transferred to Baruch where he majored in marketing and joined the college's fencing team.

But he had yet to find his true passion.

He took an apprenticeship at a WNET sponsored film training workshop and would spend his time editing for a number of television programs and films like Ganja and Hess.

It wasn't until the 80s where he got the opportunity to make a film as a director when he worked with the late filmmaker St. Clair Bourne.

And Pollard had suggested that a film be made about Max Roach, to which Saint replied, you should do it.

After working on and off that project for the next decade.

In the meantime, Pollard had collaborated with Spike Lee and edited several of his films in the 90s, such as Mo Betta Blues, Jungle Fever, Four Little Girls, and Bamboozled.

Afterwards, Pollard pivoted to documentary filmmaking, editing, producing and directing films.

If there is a director out there who I'd say is required viewing every time, it's Sam Pollard.

Sam is someone who undoubtedly loves his people, and it absolutely shows through his craft.

This is why we're giving Sam Pollard his flowers.

If you haven't watched any of his films, we highly recommend that you do so.

All right, so with that, we're going to dive into these films.

Four of these films that I said 32.

We're not diving into all 32, because I can also.

I can already hear Chris saying, why would you make that much work for yourself, Jackie?

Why?

And I'm sorry, I forgot both our.

So our guest and our producer are both named Chris.

So that was specifically for our producer, because that's how.

What.

That's exactly what you would say.

A hundred percent, yeah.

So we're just doing four on this episode.

So just so you know, we're going to get into spoilers.

So this is your warning.

It's a documentary, and of course, all of these are documentaries, but it was a feature film that exposes the FBI's intense surveillance and harassment of Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. During the 50s and 60s.

Using declassified files, the film details how J. Edgar Hoover aimed to destroy King's reputation, branding him a dangerous enemy of the state.

All right, Christopher, your thoughts, please.

Oh, man, I don't even know where to start with this.

You know, I got a rough.

It's tough for me, too.

I have strong opinions about, like, Hollywood taking real stories and then, like, you know, benefit from them.

I much rather prefer documentaries because of that.

I really wish, you know, I think they should be used to educate people, and I think this was a great tool to educate.

My initial response, this was a very spicy documentary and not in a bad way, you know, And I think we.

We definitely don't want to make light of what was going on at the time.

We don't want to make light of MLK or.

And what he means to America, what he means to black people.

As I was watching it and listening to what was happening to him, to his family, to the country, I'm like, man, this is some bullshit.

LL S H I T I just.

I Mean, you can swear on the podcast.

No, no, no.

My grandma might listen to this.

Okay, I got you, I got you.

I got you, I got you.

So I think, I think, I think the, you know, overall, like watching, I'm glad I did.

I remember when it, you know, when it came out and you know, I seen it come across.

I'm like, you know what?

I try, like I said, because, you know, I kind of stay away from those movies that they profit off of.

Like, these are real pain.

Like, I still haven't seen 13 Years a Slave or 12 Years of Slave.

12 Years of Slave.

I still haven't seen Django.

There's also a book.

There's also a book.

You get what I'm saying?

Saying?

But I typically stay away from those movies because like that stuff real happened.

That stuff really happened.

And it's not to make you guys making light.

To me, they make light of it and.

But it is a tool of education.

So my initials, I'm like, this is kind of spicy.

I feel like they could have, they could have been doing other things with their time and money and resources.

Especially now there's a big light on the federal government and they trying to light on where money's going and why it went there.

I'm like, who's doing that at this time?

Because I just felt like they had a huge surveillance budget for one person and there were so many things that went on.

And right now I'm rambling.

So you go ahead, elbow initial thought.

I mean, this is the point of a podcast.

Oh, okay, okay, okay.

No, but seriously, because there was so many nuggets that I kind of listened to and it was, it was really frustrating.

And then as you know, you see pictures.

We weren't alive in that time.

Right, right.

All we could see is the pictures.

And we, you know, we see Martin Luther, Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. And we just see him as this great thing.

And, you know, sometimes you have to be reminded that he was a person who went through real life challenges.

And as I'm watching the documentary, I'm not relating it to what they were doing with him at the survival, but as he got older, you can tell it wasn't an aging that you saw on his face.

It was like an exhaustion you saw on his face.

You get what I'm saying?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

And I'm like, I couldn't imagine dealing with all of that, four kids and just, you know, like, how could you.

Like, you have.

So the thing is like, okay, so you're an activist Your face is out there.

Right.

Which means you're already, you're already a target.

You have a family, you have a congregation.

And then all at the same time, you also now have the government after you, after you, which is like, I can't even imagine the amount of pressure.

And I, and I, and I, from where I read or I heard about Dr. King, like, when he was younger, going through, like, he had, like, mental health issues, like he was depressed.

I can't remember whether or not.

And someone can, like, put this in the comments, you know, Please make sure to comment.

You know, if, if I'm Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe he tried to, like, he attempted death by suicide.

Oh, man.

Okay.

I'll never do that either.

Yeah, so like when he was younger.

And so I can't imagine, like, the amount of all the things that he was feeling, especially during that time and having to deal with to then, like, not only just being an activist.

Right.

But then now having your own government.

Right.

Come after you because you're seen as a threat.

Yeah.

And they said it plainly, like, he's a threat to.

You know, and every time I learn about Dr. Martin Luther King, I learned something new that I didn't know.

And it was a lot of that in this documentary.

That was the.

Yeah, that was one of the things I bring up often.

And I haven't fact checked it yet because the person that told me is a credible source, he's an educator, and he's talking about this book that he had read, and it talked about the unsung heroes of the civil rights movement.

And there were a bunch of people that we just don't know about or talk about.

Right.

We talk about the kind of ones that are in our face.

I call them the Fab Four.

It's Harriet Tubman, it's Rosa Parks.

It's Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. And because it's.

Or Frederick Douglass.

Well, we don't even.

Yes, because Rochester.

Because it's Rochester.

So we talk about Frederick Douglass.

We don't really.

People are starting to talk about, like, Malcolm X more.

But that's.

No, those are not the figures that we learned in school.

At least I learned in school.

You know what?

I got to hit Sam Pollard on.

I need him to do a documentary on John Barry Meacham.

Okay.

Are you familiar with John Barry Meacham?

No.

No, I am not.

Okay, Can I educate you real quick?

Please educate us.

I'm going to get some of the dates and details wrong, but we'll be.

Putting A fact check in the show notes.

And him.

He was born into slavery.

His mom and his dad are all at the same plantation.

Okay?

He gets shipped to, I want to say, Kentucky.

Okay?

He's in Kentucky for, you know, 21 years.

He had more of a progressive slave owner that would teach him how to read and write, not read and write.

That taught him how to do carpentry.

And I think he just by naturally, he'd learn how to do those other things.

So at 21 years old, you know, he's working on his plantation on the weekends.

He would go out and make money.

At 21, he goes to a slave owner and buys himself out of slavery.

Buys himself, Buys.

No, I'm not done.

I'm not done.

Okay?

No.

So then he walks, like I said, facts.

Check this.

He walks from Kentucky to West Virginia.

Is that right?

700 miles.

He walks.

He walks.

He don't got Nikes on.

He don't got Pumas or Skechers.

He probably had to walk at night.

You get what I'm saying?

He couldn't stop and ask for directions.

He walked from Kentucky to West Virginia, finds out the plantation his father's on.

What does he do?

He buys him.

Buys his dad out of slavery.

And now back with his dad, what does him and his dad do?

They find out.

Find out where their mom is.

They buy cash out of slavery.

So now, you know, he's getting a little older.

He meets a woman named Mary, right?

Mary is still enslaved.

Mary is sent from a plantation and I think West Virginia up into Missouri.

So he follows her, and then what does he do?

Buys her.

He buys her.

So now he's in Missouri, you know, he bought his wife from out of slavery.

This is a.

This is real.

And he wrote about it.

He wrote about it.

Oh, my God.

He buys.

He buys his wife out of slavery, purchases 20 slaves, teaches them how to do carpentry.

After he got his money back from what he learned from them, he set them free.

And he said he was able to do all but one out of 19.

He was able to send them back out.

And, you know, and he said, but he was a drunk, and you can't do nothing with a drunkard.

That's what he said.

So he did that.

He's known as his businessman in Missouri.

Then he goes and he starts the first black Baptist church in that area, right?

And he meets another man I think his man name was John.

Okay.

And they got this Baptist church.

What they would do in the basement is they would teach slaves and recently released slaves how to read and write in this.

In the basement of this church.

Right, right.

So then he purchased two steamboats.

And what does he do?

He teaches them how to read and write on the steamboats.

And whenever someone would call, he would just ride into the Mississippi River.

My people, my people.

You know what I'm saying?

You don't hear.

You don't know about that guy?

No, I don't know.

Most people don't know that's a true story.

Right.

So I don't.

Oh.

So anyway, the reason, the way I was going, it was a long way to say.

There was the educator who I was having this conversation with, who was a mentor of mine when I was at college.

He said he read this book about the uncleung heroes.

One thing he learned about the civil rights movement and this whole thing with Martin Luther King was at the time there was a different person that they wanted to lead the civil rights movement.

And it was understood that the person that was in this position was most likely going to be assassinated.

And the person they chose, they decided to go with someone else because they thought he was too important to the movement.

So they got Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. To do it.

Dr. Martin Luther King woke up every day knowing that.

And then remember what was the first attempt on his life when they blew up his house.

Yeah.

That was like a week after the Civil rights movement started.

Jeez.

Okay, well, and to dovetail off of Jackie's comment, the There's.

I'm reading an article from the national association for Mental Illness nami.

They.

There's an article about that he did suffer from severe depression, had suicidal ideation.

You know, they were.

They were certain.

And yes, had attempts when he was younger, but somebody who was, you know, struggled with that and obviously that exacerbated those things.

And there's also a book around leaders of movements and many of them having issues called a First Rate Madness.

That seems like it might be a good read or what's a.

A read that might be important to understanding how things work.

We like that.

We like that for sure.

Oh my gosh.

Okay.

So Sam.

So Sam.

So yeah, I got it.

If I could talk to Sam, if you listening, I need you to find out as much as you can about John Barrymitch.

We need to interview people.

I told myself Before I'm dying, I'm going to go check out his memorial because they do got a memorial for him in Missouri.

But, yeah, so that's, that's, you know, that's why, you know, I have a, I have a lot more respect.

And then now watching this documentary and seeing what he was going through and like, could you imagine just learning that the FBI, the United States government, is tracking and following your every single move?

And he still got up and went to work every day, and he still did it.

And so in stories like this, and John Barry Meacham, when I be conscious of who I.

And what I complain about, because the reality of it is we don't really got problems like that.

For real.

You can't say that in certain spaces, but I will.

I mean, but it's true.

It's true.

We, I mean, right now we joke.

And especially, especially I know this.

In, like, activist spaces, they joke about being on some list or like, to all of my, to, to my FBI agent, you know, that's really living that.

He was really actually living that.

And the scary part was, the scary part, it was two things that scared me was the fact that there was known FBI informants working in his organization.

Like, that's.

That.

That hurt me a little bit.

It be your own people and you.

And, you know, a lot of the stuff about this, about this documentary are things that you heard in passing a long time ago you never really did your research on.

And a lot of the stuff, that's what he talked about.

So I heard about that.

And same thing with Malcolm X, right?

Yeah.

Yeah.

They don't have Bluetooth technology.

They had to physically tap his stuff.

Wire tapping, all of.

Physically, Physically.

Yeah.

That was someone's job to be like.

Make sure we're recording.

That was someone's job.

And like.

And the thing is, is, like.

And you're going after one per.

Like, you're going after.

Like they did.

They went after other people.

Like, they, they, they, they surveilled James Baldwin, I believe, as well.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

But like.

And a bunch of other, like, prominent leaders.

But, like, how scary is that?

Like, I'm, I'm, like I'm out and about and I'm at the grocery store or whatever.

And like, back home, you know, there's all these agents, like, just making sure that they, you know, are putting all the technology in place to make sure that, you know, whatever it is that I'm doing while I'm at home is being recorded and then they're monitoring, like.

Yeah.

It's crazy to think that there was somebody's job.

Yeah.

To just monitor and review.

Okay.

What is.

What is he doing to.

To kind of like measure out each of his steps.

I'm like, today he went like 5, you know, 5:23pm he went to the bathroom.

Like.

Like, this is ridiculous.

It's just insane.

Yeah, it's ridiculous.

Yeah.

So I, you know, I think it.

I just think about, you know, the challenges we currently have.

And.

And that's why I'm, you know, that's why I feel the way I do about certain social justice movements or even the fact of, you look at Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. And him coming to Rochester before to, you know, advocate and to protest, you know, against housing discrimination.

Right.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And it's still happening today.

It's still happening today.

And then what warms my heart, and like I said, there's another thing that people have told to me, I've never watched it or never verified it is the.

The civil rights inequality was one thing towards the tail end of, you know, before he tragically was assassinated, it was all about poverty.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Cause I mean.

Cause it encapsulates so many things.

I mean, I'm constantly listening to, and especially in this day and age, like, I'm going back and listening to, like, black radicals and hearing them talk too, about, like, race, of course, but also class.

But then.

But then.

And relating it to, as far as, like, capitalism goes, you know, you're talking about some of the most marginalized in our society are poor people.

And so when you're talking about some.

What they need, right.

You know, you get the needs of them.

You get the.

You get the rights and the needs of black folks, and especially black poor folks, like, you get rights for them.

Everyone else.

Right.

Everyone else is like, is.

Is also getting that lift.

So.

But that's also how, you know, you're also able to mobilize with so many people, Right.

Like, not just black folks, but like, other folks who are also recognizing, you know, the same things that he's talking about.

I'm also having to deal with, too, on, like, this level or whatever.

That's how so many movements in the past and the present.

Right.

Reach for solidarity.

Right.

Across ethnicity, across social and economic status, across ability, across sexual orientation, like so many different things.

Because, you know, there's strength in numbers.

And you.

You definitely need that, you know, if you're going to get anywhere.

Right.

So, yeah, that's.

And of course, that.

That being why, you know, they were so bristly.

J. Edgar Hoover was like so adamant.

Right.

On making sure to get rid of him and discredit him, like, by any means necessary.

Man, he was the head of FBI for what, 45 years.

How was that even?

So I, you know, I just.

It's a lot of things that just screamed white supremacy to me.

That just bothered me a lot.

Yes.

And just.

Even when they talked about how he recruited or what type he looked for, and it just, you know, it is hard.

Right.

And then unfortunately, like, my grandma's still alive.

Right.

You know what I'm saying?

A lot of our, like they were, you know, so it is, it is.

It is hard to just, you know, brush past a lot of this stuff.

Yeah.

Especially now in a climate we live in now.

Yeah.

Politically.

You get what I'm saying?

With the BLM uprisings got worse.

So then.

But you know what I do appreciate about Sam, I just think his.

And you see it through all of the documentaries.

One of the things that I really enjoyed, at least as far as, you know, cinematography goes, is I love his use of black and white to kind of.

Kind of put you back to where, you know, before color was a big thing on TVs.

But I don't know if you noticed this, but one of the things I noticed is like, typically when a document, you watch a documentary, it's an interview.

They'll start with the person that's interviewing and then they'll cut to the B roll and then end with them or something like that.

He just went through with pictures and B roll.

And at the time you wouldn't even.

You don't know the title or who's talking.

You just know it's switching to someone else.

But you focus in your time and energy and effort on the visuals that he's giving you.

And I thought that was.

Cause I noticed that I'll be just watching.

And I'm like, we haven't cut to an interviewer in a long time.

We're hearing people talk and we' like watching, you know, we're.

We're watching archival footage.

We're seeing the pictures, we're seeing the.

So many videos.

Things I've never.

Right.

We're also like watching like, I love the, the use of like the typewriter.

Right.

And it's like.

And it's.

It's showing, you know, the, the different, like, files and what people are like, I guess, like, what The FBI is, like, reviewing.

And so it's like, it's placing you without putting, like, a face to, you know, like, putting you in front of, like, someone like, who's.

Who's.

Who's talking.

Right.

Like, on camera.

It's.

It's placing you in the center of.

Of, you know, this government entity.

Right.

That is surveilling someone that we've come to know as someone who has been, you know, a leader in the civil rights movement.

It's also.

And Sam said this in an interview where he's, like, talking to his producer, like, you know, folks that worked with him in the film.

It was very important, right, to not only, you know, show Dr. King and like, from, like, a different perspective, but then also you're.

You're coming from the perspective of someone who saw MLK as a villain, as a threat.

And so to place you on that side of things really just kind of like.

Like jolts you because, like, for our entire lives, we've been told and still believe that Dr. King was very important to the movement.

Like so many other people, you know, this figure in history who was hated, hated in his time.

People like to talk about him now as someone who was loved, but that was not the case.

The man was assassinated.

Like, he was not loved in his time.

So, yeah, I think Sam does a really good job of.

Of doing that and placing you in that kind of perspective.

I think so, too.

I think.

And I like the way it ended where it kind of, you know, we kind of talked about it off air, but it was like, you know, understanding that these.

These.

These articles are coming from someone who, like, they really hated and wanted to diminish him.

And, you know, one of the things that.

That frustrated me the most of this.

A lot of things frustrated me.

So I'm not going to say the most because it was just, okay, let's have it.

Let's have it, Chris.

Let us know, man.

So I said he was.

He.

He wanted to take a break and he went to Bimini.

And I didn't even.

I had a Google bin to me, I didn't even know what it was.

It's somewhere in the Bahamas.

And then the helicopters came to the island where he was.

The FBI follow him on vacation.

That's insane to me, the amount of money that went.

And like I said, my brain keeps going there because especially when you talk to Republicans or conservatives or people who are super duper patriotic and super duper, they talk about how we spend money.

Yeah, that's.

That's where it Comes down to.

Yeah.

And they don't want money to go to social support programs.

No.

They don't want money to go to poor people, people of color.

They just don't want it.

No.

And it's like.

That's the first thing I noticed about it.

Not even their own people.

Not even their own people.

Yeah.

Not going to, like, conservatives.

No, it's.

It's going into Surveillance one, dude.

I just.

But that's.

That just shows the magnitude of.

They knew the impact he was making and could make and was making.

And white supremacy is one hell of a truck.

I don't know.

I don't want none of it, but they.

It's.

It's just.

It's just really.

It's just.

It's just really unfortunate, man.

And the more and more.

Yeah, we think about it, it just.

I try to be a lot more positive about how I see United States of America because we live here, Right?

It is what it is.

But the more and more.

And there's things like this I just like, man, this is.

And these are the people that are running.

They were running the country and still.

And still running the country, and they're still.

They're still in these places, and there's.

Still in these places.

So it's hard to, you know.

And we'll get to it when we talk to, you know, the.

What is it?

Loudness County.

But, you know, what they did to mobilize to get, you know, to get people to vote.

But I think that's the level it kind of takes now that we're going to need to see some change is we really got to, like, I don't know, it's got to be different and, you know, more people got to be involved for sure.

So if you haven't already watched MLK FBI, I highly, highly, highly suggest you go watch that.

It is, you know, for our viewers, of course, and listeners, you can rent it at most streaming services, I believe.

I couldn't find anywhere for free.

Unless, of course, you are at.

You are near a library that either lets you do that through canopy or just visiting your local library to see if MLK FBI is available.

Um, because.

Because, you know, as.

As, of course, like, I'm always trying to, you know, help y' all with watching, you know, the films that we suggest on our podcast.

So if it's not available on a streaming service.

And of course, though, regardless of whether or not it's available, visit your local libraries because they need your support.

Okay.

Moving on to the league, which is actually available On I watched it through.

Or watching it again through hoopla.

I originally saw it at the little theater.

So shout out to the little Theater.

Specifically the Rochester association of Black Journalists.

Yes, they did a screening.

So shout out to y'.

All.

They did a screening a couple years ago, I believe, but it was about the league, and I had to get there because baseball is one of my favorites.

I will go into more of that, but as of right now.

So for those of you who are not familiar with the league.

The film features archival footage and interviews to showcase legends like Satchel Page and Josh Gibson while examining the unintended consequences of integration.

Okay, so getting back to my love of baseball.

So it's.

So I was really, really excited about this.

Jackie Robinson is one of my childhood heroes, I think.

I think it started because I was like, number one.

I was.

I was actually in.

Started with T ball and was just a big.

I was just a big.

I think I've always been, like, a fan of baseball.

But then also, I think it was like, 6 years old, and he had my name.

I didn't even think about that.

I was like.

I was like.

So you said childhood here.

I'm like, he.

He was done playing a long time before, but, like.

But now it makes sense.

Yeah.

Like, I had heard about, like, I heard about baseball players.

And of course, you know, you're trying to.

I'm in a black household, so they're going to tell you about, like, you know, the black historical figures.

And one of them I learned about was, of course, Jackie Robinson.

And then I just remember going, baseball player has my name.

Oh, my God.

So.

So I became, like, obsessed, like, learning about him and everything.

And of course.

And yes, of course, I went to go watch 42 back when the late Chadwick Boseman, like, played.

Played him.

And then I watched the documentary by.

Oh, gosh, cannot remember.

It was on pbs.

Please help me out.

Why am I blanking on this man's name?

He makes, like, everything.

Ken Burns wike.

Every time he's gonna mention, oh, he just passed away.

No, I see.

God.

Okay.

Anyway.

No, okay.

Yes.

Ken Burns also did a documentary about Jackie Robinson as well.

But then upon going into this film.

So my initial reaction.

And then.

I would love to get your initial reaction, Chris.

But my initial reaction, it was.

I was honestly was smiling from the whole time.

Like, I Was grinning the whole time because it's about.

It's about baseball.

And I watch quite a bit, you know, when it comes to baseball, but then also to just learning about the Negro leagues and knowing that it was not only something that was ours, but then also it being something that also did a lot for myself being an entrepreneur, like it did that the baseball.

The Negro baseball league's doing a lot also too, for entrepreneurs.

It brought together community.

You had these tight knit communities, right, that really supported one another.

Learning about how like something like after or like pastors moving their church services up so that people could go watch the game.

Kind of like how we do with football now.

But for back then, it was baseball.

It was just like one of the, like, neat things.

And I didn't really know a whole lot, right, about the Negro.

Like I knew some about the Negro baseball leagues, but this really like goes in, in depth, like with, you know, the different.

The different conferences, their own World Series that they had.

Each of the teams, folks having baseball players having like a higher record than Babe Ruth.

And that's not talked about.

Like all of these different.

All these different things that come out of that documentary that I end up learning just makes me appreciate it that much more.

I remember going to the Baseball hall of Fame and just kind of like looking for like the plaques, the different plaques, right, of all of these players that I'd heard about and stuff and just reading those, but then visiting the entire.

Visiting the section that they have about, specifically about the Negro baseball leagues and just like having this piece of history that we're again, not often taught about.

Really just.

I end up walking away from the film, like, being like, we need more stories like this.

And I also wish, like, that we had there was a way to continue like recruiting like the youth for.

For baseball.

Like we, you know, we have so many programs for basketball and football.

I wish it was the same for baseball.

And that's been kind of lost, especially given I think they talk about this, like the pace of, you know, the sport.

Let me know your thoughts, Christopher, because I can go on.

Yeah, man.

I love the music.

The music.

I love the movie.

I think going back in that time.

Yeah, no, I think being able to see that footage.

I think a lot of things you mentioned, you know, the, you know, moving to church services so people can get out and watch the game, it was just something that seemed like brought a lot of joy and built community to families at that time.

So that's what I enjoy.

You know, I was familiar with the Negro League, not nearly as much as I learned.

Everything I felt like I learned was new.

This player from Negro Leagues and all that.

But just, you know, that's the one thing I noticed.

It was like.

It was just a lot of joy.

And then also the people who weren't Jackie Robinson, who were as good or meant a lot to the league, and the fact that it dwindled down and then they started back up, so it was the second one.

And those are all things that was foreign to me at the time.

But like I said, it's the same thing with the MLK FBI film.

It's just you never know what's really going on.

And I think when you look at things from our lens, like, I was born in 91, so everything, you know, the stuff we're looking at happened 30, 40, 50 years before we were born.

And you just have a little more appreciation for the people that are around you.

And especially our elder people, you know, I don't think we, you know, we live in the best time to be alive.

And I'll argue that to the death.

Like, there's no better time to be alive than right now.

But I just couldn't imagine us trying to do this 80 years ago, 50 years ago, 60 years ago.

You get what I'm saying?

It's tough, right?

Where some of our biggest leaders were getting gunned down, whether they were black or white.

So you look at this particular time, it just seemed like that it just brought a lot of joy from different people to kind of get together.

And I'm not someone who watches baseball at all.

I can't tell you, you know, I've been to a bunch of Red Wings games, but they use it because it was free.

But like, oh, we got a sweet.

You wanna come eat hot dogs?

I'm like, I'll come eat the Tater tots.

So.

But that's what, you know, so I'm not a big baseball fan, but I think at that time, and I just know how it is when things are rooted in black culture, when just black people get together, it's just like, it's a thing, you know what I'm saying?

So I can imagine the joking and the other kids playing around with each other and the junk talking and the just the networking and community building that was happening.

Cause they were Meeting at, or think about all the anticipation as they were coming up to the weekend to see who was, you know, So I just think it, you could tell it brought a lot of joy to people at that time, specifically people of color, for sure.

Also.

So they're in the film.

So they talk about, like, how, again, adding, just adding even more history and context, right, to the Negro baseball leagues, right?

So they mentioned we be Dubois or Du Bois, depending, again, who you talk to, but mentions to black folks, like, okay, in order for us to like, finally get our rights, like, to encourage folks to go and fight for America only to come back and then that having failed because they're right back and like, again facing lynchings and all the different things, right, that neuter black folks had been subjected to.

And so in the same vein, like, people are, you know, they're, they're having to do their own thing, right?

There's a lot, right, that's.

That's going on that they, you know, they had just, I think they had just passed, what was it, Plessy versus Ferguson at the time.

So that, that whole thing about separate but equal.

And so they're, of course, you know, creating their own baseball league.

But then there's this comparison that happens in the film where it's like, it's comparing major league baseball, right?

So all white players to the Negro leagues.

And so the way in which, like, they play in the major leagues is like there is no, there is no stealing bases, right?

It's all kind of just very like what, you know, baseball to be comes from come the Negro baseball leagues, right?

There's no stealing.

I think it was the bunt and run, right, that's introduced.

There's the.

It's not the curveball.

It's another.

And of course, I'm blanking on which ball or which, which, which pitch.

But there's another ball per.

No, no, no, no.

There's a. Oh, God, I had it in my head and I forget.

No, there was another.

There, There was one pitch in particular that, that screwball.

Yep.

So it was a screwball that was introduced.

It was taught.

It was taught by someone from the Negro baseball leagues.

Someone, Someone from the Negro baseball leagues taught a white player, right.

He brought it to the major leagues and then got credited for that.

But it was actually a black player who is credited with the screwball.

Rube Foster.

Yes.

Rube Foster, Exactly.

And so they talk about Rube Foster a lot in this documentary.

But, like, again, it was like how we added our own style, our own, like, flair Right.

To playing the game.

It was a lot more lively.

And I'm like, what do black folks not do that is more lively and flavorful and just, like, with spice, like, we just.

We always add our own, like, layers.

It's different.

Like, it's like we just have our own thing.

No, it's.

And it's.

And again, I just.

Like, I'm taking.

I'm listening to that and just being like, like, what can't we do?

Like, I don't remember the comedian's name, but he was talking about how his.

How his dad is Tom Segura, and he said his dad likes to go on carnival cruises because he liked to watch black people have fun.

Find a clip.

You gotta watch the clip.

Okay, okay, okay, okay.

But.

But, yeah, I think, like I said, you know, if I had to sum up during that time.

And then, like I said, you just never know what's going on.

I don't know.

The stuff that we read and we hear about from these traditions just don't do it justice.

Like, it was much more involved than when we realized as we just reading these articles or watching these short clips.

This was.

This was something that was a big part of culture.

Yeah.

And that's why I mentioned.

You talked about, you know, black people just, you know, bring whatever that is to it.

But that's why I said I couldn't imagine just, you know, on a Saturday or Sunday just being down there and being at one of the games.

And they were.

The stadiums were always packed.

At least from the clips we saw.

It was.

It's probably a grand old time.

They were having a time.

Like, it's also the opportunities, too.

Yes.

Like, I was just reading because one of the.

One of the Negro League teams is actually about to be revived as part of the new Banana Ball League.

Oh, my God.

So the Indianapolis Clowns or something.

The Indianapolis Clowns are being revived in Indianapolis, which is an original, one of the old Negro league teams.

And they were the team that gave Hank Aaron their first contract.

And the MLB was integrated at that point, but they gave him.

The barnstorming team, gave him his first contract.

And they were kind of an offshoot, not offshoot of the Globetrotters, but they played with.

They had some comedy, they had some ultra entertainment.

And they're coming in now into the Banana Ball League, but now they have a. Ryan Howard from the Phillies is the manager.

Jackie Bradley Jr. Is jumping in to be a player on the team, but they're really embracing the legacy of that and reviving it as Part of growing the popularity of baseball and appealing to the kids.

But to bring that in as part of modern.

The modern way of bringing kids into baseball again, that's the thing that gets you in your feels.

Especially somebody where I read the books when I was a kid about Hank Aaron.

Those, you know, it was Hank Aaron and Roberto Clemente.

And, you know, those.

Those are the books I read as a kid.

And those are the things that inspired me as a, you know, baseball fan when I was a kid.

Were those stories not, you know, gives a shit about Mickey Mantle.

Let's talk about Hank, Harry, Roberto Clemente.

Come on.

Yes.

And that's what I. Yeah, that's about, like, films.

Like, this is just.

Like, this is the.

Again, it's part of the history that we don't learn.

It's part of the history that is often there's.

There's so much in our history, right.

That, like, you know, I would appreciate if it was included in textbooks and everything.

But, like, it's.

That this is why I'm always, like, a huge, you know, advocate for putting history into film, whether that's through documentaries, that's.

Whether that's through a narrative that's based on true events.

Because I feel like oftentimes, you know, we're not going to see the inclusion.

Right.

Of black history, like.

Like in a.

In a day or in a month or in, like, you know, these curricula.

We were seeing, we're seeing the pullback, where they're seeing the pushback, you know, against.

And the dismantling.

Right.

Of the Department of Education.

We're also seeing, like, you know, more curricula, especially where it concerns diversity, equity, inclusion being no longer included in curricula.

So I'm like, okay, where else do you put it other than, of course, like, books and graphic novels and stuff like that.

You can also put it into film.

And then.

And then what.

The amazing thing, too, about films are that, you know, oftentimes what happens is people are having conversation right after they've seen a film and, you know, they're going and looking up things.

Right, okay, well, what about this?

What about this?

I want to learn more about this.

It's a way to educate the mass is right.

Without, like, you know, putting them through, like, a lecture.

Especially.

Especially when it's, like, executed well.

You know, it's told in an entertaining way.

And like I said at the top, like, I feel like with Sam Pollard's films, it's.

It's like getting, you know, have being told by, like, an older Relative.

Hey, come and sit down.

I'm gonna tell you a story.

Like, and you're.

You are.

It's.

You're pulled into a living room.

You sit down.

You're.

You're.

You're listening to the voices of people who are involved or the people who, you know, have had this history passed down to them.

Right.

By someone who was involved.

And it's just a very, like, cool way of.

Of learning, you know, especially about our history that is so often thrown under the bus or just not told or shoved aside.

Yeah.

Yeah, I agree.

Yeah.

Any more thoughts about the league before we move on?

No, like I said, I thoroughly enjoyed it.

Learned a lot.

I think with these first two documentaries, it would learn a lot.

Still a lot of footage, a lot of black and white.

I feel like it was more interviews where you see actual interviewer than MLK and FBI.

But I think they told a great story, and no matter seeing what challenges that came of it, I was still grateful that it brought joy at the point in time it did for our people.

Yeah.

And then also, too, before.

Before we actually move on, there's something else just popped in my head when, you know, we're talking about, well, two things, actually.

So, you know, we're all.

We're all told, right, that.

That Jackie Robinson broke the color line.

There were black players in the.

In the major leagues.

Okay, I didn't know that.

Yeah.

So.

So that's actually.

So it's in.

So it is in the film.

They could.

They.

They.

They touch on it, like, briefly, but there were.

And then.

And then, you know, somewhere along the line or somewhere down the line, you know, they're more strict about the segregation.

I think, again, this is after, I think, I believe, Plessy versus Ferguson.

Okay.

And so.

So they just weren't.

They just weren't good, though.

Well, no, they were.

They were.

No, they were like.

As far as we know, like, they were good.

I mean, they were good enough, like, to make.

Okay, Right.

The major leagues.

Right.

And so, no disrespect, but.

But then.

But then they stopped.

Like, they canceled the.

They canceled the contracts of the black players.

There weren't.

There weren't that many, but they do.

Yeah.

What else?

They weren't there.

You know, they weren't.

They weren't.

They were there and then they weren't.

Right.

And so.

So.

So Jackie Robinson, of course, like, we know that whole story of, like, him breaking the color line.

And then, of course, when you have integration, right?

Being.

Being brought forward.

The issue.

And this is like, this was what starts the downfall of the Negro baseball leagues, right?

Is okay, like, yes, the goal was always to integrate, but at the same time, now you're losing.

With so many players now going to play for the major leagues, now you're losing, like, the best players.

You also don't have as many people attending those games because now black folks are allowed to go to those games with the major leagues.

Those.

Those entrepreneurs, the small businesses, right, that were dependent on the money that was being brought in, you know what I mean, from those games, are now having to shut down their services because they can't.

So your thoughts on this?

You know, it reminds me of one of Dr. Martin Luther King's quotes that he said later in life that isn't as publicized as I wish it was.

All right, bring it on.

I fear I may have integrated my people into a burning building.

And that actually brings us to the next film, because that's a quote at the end of Lowndes county and the road to black power.

So, yeah, so that what you had just said was something that was said at the end of this film.

This film.

I had to pause a couple times.

I had to pause a few times because this one, while there is plenty that is.

Is very much like plenty of moments in the film that I just.

I'm just, like, so proud.

Like, I was like, I would choose to be black in every single lifetime, you know, just made you proud, right?

You know, to be a black person.

At the same time, it's also, like, those first few moments, you know, it shows you, right Bloody Sunday, right on, you know, the.

The.

The Pettus Bridge.

And then you go right into talking about Lowndes county and how it's 80%.

It's 80% black.

They.

But they don't have power.

You know, they're not allowed to vote and all this stuff.

And then at the same time, Lowndes county, black folks are just being picked off.

They're being lynched.

You know, if you tried to go, even if you're just, like, walking, like, you know, along a road or whatever, right there, there would these.

Like, there would be these cars full of white people, and they were just like, kill.

Just.

Just killing black folks, like, left and right, like it was some sort of sport.

Like it's like, like you're aware, right, that things.

Right.

You know, it doesn't surprise you when you hear this, but it's still a shock to the system when you're, when it's like, you know, we're 80% black, like, y' all can't leave us alone for what.

It's.

So it's, it's, it's, it's nuts to think about that.

This is the, this is the environment in which, you know, like so many other moments in history, we're an environment where it is volatile.

And you're still, still like advocating, you know, to you, first of all, you're like, okay, in order for us to get power, right, because again, 80% black populate population in this county, like, we need power.

We need a way to self govern.

And so we need to organize and rally together to try to get candidates into office, to get a party for us to then be able to elect people to office to those to that party, to then be able to gain back some of that power so we can also get our rights.

And so you have people, right, like going about trying to get people to register to vote, people being targeted again, again being targeted for getting people to reg.

Getting black people to register to vote.

And it's, it's just another thing I think I remember, like, after watching this film, I'm like, for those of you, by the way, especially in this political climate that we're in, I feel like I've been saying that for the past 10 years, but like, for this political climate that we're in, if you are ever discouraged, especially when it comes to organizing, you need to watch this film.

And even if you're not an organizer, you need to watch this film because it is about a community of people, again, under a lot worse conditions, who are still, despite everything.

I mean, there are like, there are moments in this film, you see, there's like this archival footage of someone actually back then who was take.

Who was, who was, who was recording, you know, video.

You're seeing people go into a space to organize with bandages on their heads.

Like, I'll bring it back to John Barry Meacham.

Okay, here we go.

What would it take you to walk from Kentucky to West Virginia right now?

But I'm gonna give you a sack for sneakers.

I just, you know, and that's.

You brought it like, you know, we gotta continue to watch these films.

Yes.

And I know not everything was rainbows and skittles.

And not everyone who lived at that time, you know, fought like that.

Yeah.

You know, but one of the things that I think helps me out is be able to be in spaces where this stuff crosses my path.

And I'm also.

I'm very curious about things.

Like I stay on Google, I hear things, I try to.

But I really wish more of our youth understood some of these things our community went to.

And I just want to point out, too, that Alabama's already on my list.

Right.

I'm not gonna say what the list is for, but Alabama's on my list.

Places not to visit.

Cause that's mine.

No, no, I need you to visit because I need you to go to the national memorial of.

What is it?

Peace and justice.

Okay.

Okay.

That's the soft way of saying lynching museum.

I see.

Okay.

There's no software.

They have a museum.

Yeah.

Okay.

They have a museum.

Okay.

And it'll change your life.

But it's, you know, I have pictures.

I'll show you when this is over.

But they have things hanging from, like, bronze, you know, metal statues hanging out in the shape of coffins.

Okay.

Yeah, I've seen that.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And on each of them, it has, you know, why the year and why they were lynched.

And you could just spend hours reading why, you know, this person was.

Was lynched for protesting because someone else was lynched.

This woman was lynched because her husband was lynched the day before and she filed a police report.

You know, this one got a white woman pregnant.

This one, I'm like, God damn.

So Alabama.

Every time I hear Alabama, and I think about it like, there's no way, like, if he.

If these people can survive Alabama, we could get through Rochester.

We could try to find a way to get the right people in the office in some of these positions.

If they were like, they, you know, talk about mobilization.

Right.

I think about all that.

Like I said, this is a great time to be alive.

Think about everything you would need to do to try to.

If you wanted to do a marketing campaign right now to try to get a thousand people registered to vote.

Yeah.

And between social media, between.

Between.

Now you can register to vote online.

Right.

It'd be fairly easy.

Right.

And I love the tenacity and what they said, like they would go to.

Door to door.

Yes.

And then.

Yeah.

Make sure they registered in front of them.

Yeah.

And then if they didn't have time, they would come back the next day.

Yes.

And be like, hey, did you register to vote?

Right, right.

So I think, and this is near and dear to me, not as, I mean, I care.

That's, I don't say I don't care, but it's more near and dear to me because that's one of the things that, you know, in my full time job we're trying to advocate for is voter participation.

So registering is one point, but then actually showing up to vote is another one.

And there's a huge gap, like thousands of people in our community who could vote don't.

And there's also a third thing to that because they're okay, so.

And again, this also has to relate to the film because this is also, I mean they are, they get candidates that are, are in the best interest like, of people that actually like, stand on things.

Right.

That you want to vote for.

Because that's the thing.

It's one thing to say go out and vote.

Right, Right.

That's the easy thing.

But it's another thing to actually have people on the ballot who are worthy of being voted for.

And that's, that's fair and right.

And I agree with you.

Yeah.

But if we don't even get people to understand that voting is important, if we don't get how many people.

And like I said, I, I even, you know, I half believe them, right.

They say they already know who's going to be in power.

There's none of this stuff really matters.

Right.

Maybe at the federal level.

At the federal level, yes.

Local, local level, you could buy elections at the federal level.

Locally, I need y' all to show up and we, you know, I, I go in rooms and I, and I, and this is no, like I said, I love everybody.

There's no disrespect, but specifically our people of color, man, you go in a room and just raise your hand and say who, who's voted in the last election or who plans on voting for the midterms.

Right.

And you know, the hands stay down.

Right.

There's a whole lot of education that has to go into like voting.

Right.

Cause there's one thing to.

Like I said, yeah, you right.

We can write your name on a piece of paper, fill out the documents.

Now you register to vote.

You can go into the voting booth or now they got a nice machine and just press buttons.

Now you voted.

But they were intentional about who they wanted to get out of office and who they wanted in their community to replace them.

Yes.

And maybe those conversations do happen and I'm just not there.

It's very possible I'm not at every table you know, I'm not.

There's people who are way smarter than I do who are still trying to push the causes, and they.

In rooms that I'm not in.

But it has never come.

Like, I've never got a chain message, right?

They'll tell, you get a chain message to boycott Target, right?

You get a chain message to boycott Amazon.

When they gonna say, hey, y', all, we voted next week.

This is who I need, y'.

All.

And this is why, right?

That might be illegal, but I think you know that.

That.

That isn't.

I haven't gotten those.

I haven't gotten a chain message related to.

Hey, we gonna.

We gonna call these candidates up and try to have an event where they can explain to us why they should be the ones qualified.

Yeah.

And I know that happens in certain places when you get to a certain level.

You know, of course, the mayor, they'll have debates and all that stuff, but.

And it happened.

And it happened in this film.

You're right.

That's.

And that's.

What I'm saying is like, we need.

Dang it.

Like, I need folks at the Little Theater, okay?

I need.

I'm talking directly to you, okay?

Lowens County.

All right?

And the Road to Black Power.

All right, how do we get in contact?

We can organize now.

We just gotta make it happen.

No, we're not gonna leave Little Theater.

Oh, no, no.

Right.

No.

And I'm saying.

I'm saying, listen.

No, no, no.

Oh, no.

I'll just send an email to Matt.

And be like, oh, is that easy?

It is.

And it's how I've gotten things done before.

So, Matt, we're gonna be talking soon.

Matt, we need you to play Tyler Perry.

No, absolutely not.

No, don't listen to him.

Don't listen to him.

Another one, Another one.

No.

Why?

Okay, this is about Sam, and you gotta keep involving Tyler Perry.

This is crazy.

Also, shout out to FD signifier.

I'm going to watch that video, bro.

Okay, so anywho, getting back to me, this is why it's so important, right, to watch.

Watch this film is because it talks so much about grassroots organizing.

This is how this is.

Also, you know, this.

There's this local group, of course, but then sncc, right?

The Student Nonviolent.

Gosh, I forget what.

The whole thing.

But sncc, you know, it's a group of students, right, who started with, like, sit in protests.

Who.

Coordinating Committee.

Yeah, coordinate.

Thank you.

So the Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee, you know, so people like Diane Nash and Stokely Carmichael, who would eventually be Kwame Ture and others, right, Getting involved with the people of Lowndes county to mobilize, to organize.

That's how a lot of these folks also got their starts, was with grassroots organization, making sure people.

Folks were protected at the polls, making sure people were protected, just registering to vote.

That was the other thing like.

That was the other thing like the protection, like them standing there with guns.

Listen, they were also telling people to.

They.

They put up signs that were on.

On, like, I think it was like black farmers fields where folks could, like, see them.

Like, they would put signs saying, go to the polls and then go straight home, right, because they thought that there would be violence, of course, from the white population in this.

In this county.

And so there was just a lot of different things, a lot of different aspects of making sure that not only people got registered to vote, but then also that there were candidates, right, who could replace these people, like, in power in order to get power for themselves, as well as protecting each part of that process and making sure that.

That people could vote.

And then.

Then, of course, as we've seen throughout so many history, again, again, history, I don't believe repeats itself.

I believe it parallels.

I believe it mirrors.

And so.

So in this film, right, you're also seeing, right, there's a lot of black folks, right, who end up.

They said something like 800 people came out to vote.

And of course, as we've seen time and time again, what happens is that, you know, white folks get a hold of the ballots, they're throwing it into the lake, they're, like, doing whatever they can that, you know, to make sure that these people don't get in power.

And of course, that first time around, they lose.

You know, their candidates lose, but then they just every.

Every other.

Every two years, they come back and vote in someone else, and eventually they end up hiring their first black sheriff, who changed quite a few things, you know, in their county.

So again, you know, especially if you're someone who's organizing or if you're working with organizers, like, this is a film that you absolutely need to watch.

And yeah, it's.

It's just, again, it's another incredible film by Sam Pollard.

I mean, honestly, just add Sam Pollard for any teachers out there, any educators, add this man's filmography to your curriculum.

Summer.

How.

Because you're going to learn so much in.

In like, a short amount of time.

I mean, like, each of his films, I think is like maybe like an hour and a half between an hour And a half an hour and 40ish minutes.

So, yeah, I.

That.

That's a film you absolutely, absolutely need to watch.

And then finally we come to.

Actually, hold on before I, before I move on to our last film, Lowens county, you can watch on Peacock right now.

The league, like I said, was on.

Oh, I watched it through hoopla.

So if you can get it again through your library.

Absolutely, go ahead and do that.

And of course, you can get, you can get lots of films at your local library again, because they need your support right now.

Okay.

And last but not least right now on HBO is Black Art in the in the Absence of Light.

So quick, quick summary about that film.

Explores the immense contributions of black visual artists to American art.

Inspired by David Driscoll's.

And my God, on today, if this is not the most relevant.

So, I mean, all of these films are relevant.

They're.

They're going to be relevant for some time.

But being.

Being a black artist, and again, for anyone who, especially for black artists, definitely go check this out, check this film out.

Because it speaks to so much of what we as black artists face with, of course, our art, our work not being taken seriously, not us getting the credit that we're more than due, and then also too, having the same access, you know, to spaces, to shows, exhibitions, or the chance to show our art at exhibitions.

So the essentially the two centuries of black American art.

David Driscoll, the curator for that show, I'm gonna believe was at the moma.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but it showcased so many black artists that really paved the way, you know, to artists.

And when we're talking about art, we're talking about photography, we're talking about sculpture, we're talking about ceramics, you know, we're talking about prints, paintings, drawings, like, you name it, you know, and it's paved the way for so many people to be able to showcase their work.

And not only just like to showcase their work, but then also relate it to how artists use their work to talk about the things of the.

That time.

You know, Nina Simone said, you know, it's the artist's duty to reflect the times.

And so many of these artists, while they're also, while they're showcasing their work, are also talking about and highlighting very important Social and political issues of the day.

And I think that's what's so unique about black art.

And like, what that is, is it.

It.

Like it doesn't always need to be political, but then there's always something that comes through that is very engaging.

There's also, again, the opportunity to talk about things that are affecting black folks, disproportionately affecting black folks.

But then it's really does come down to access and having the opportunities to showcase your work and for it to be seen by a number of people.

And so it's really kind of like that, that.

That what it really did was really, again, like I keep saying, it really paved the way for a lot of black artists to have their.

Their work shown.

And also like doing.

Being able to.

Being able to do commissions.

They also talk about in the film how there are.

I think they mentioned or they interviewed Swiss Beats, who I wasn't aware was a black collector.

Well, he's.

I mean, I know he's black, but I didn't know he was a collector, you know, of a lot of work.

And so there's a lot of work that he has in his.

Him and Alicia Keys, his wife, like, have in his home.

And he's constantly looking for more.

There's all these opportunities because artists are able to showcase their work, to be able to not only have their work put into all these different places, especially with exhibitions and opportunities to get their work shown in more places and seen by more people, but then also people who want to collect it, who want to commission them for other things.

And so, like I said, said, like there's.

When.

When you create a space for people, when you create opportunities, when you give folks access to equipment and other resources, you know, when you provide compensation, which people apparently, like, you can't survive.

No artist can survive on exposure.

Sorry, but that just does not cut it.

Again, like, this is.

This is something that was.

And of course, I mean, like, it's.

It's.

It's been five years, but it's just as relevant and it will be just as relevant, you know, in the years to come.

But it's really important that you provide black artists with all of these tools to be able to continue their work, to continue to speak truth, to power through their work, to be able to express themselves however they want to.

To express themselves.

And I think the film does a very good job of that there's quite a few interviews, but I think there's just as much, if not more and B roll of like all of this work and showcasing artwork across multiple genres.

And yeah, it's a well made film, as of course, Sam Pollard does.

And I just, I would highly recommend that to anyone, especially, I mean, especially, you know, anyone who appreciates documentary films as much as we do, but at the same time, especially for black artists or artists in general, curators, educators.

Like, yeah, this, this is really something that you should watch and also continue to grow and advocate for, like in your city.

So that's black art in the Absence of light.

And I believe you can watch, you can watch that right now at the time of this recording on hbo.

So with that said, I think, I think you already answered this, Chris, you know, but like, what would you, what would you want to see Pollard direct in the future?

And I think you had mentioned again, John Barry Meacham.

There we go.

I would love to hear more.

Okay, so there's.

If you haven't heard the story of Robert Smalls, go look that up because.

That'S the one that shipped himself.

Yes.

No, actually, no, not shipped himself.

Well, he commandeered a Confederate ship.

There is somebody else who actually like shipped themselves.

It wasn't Robert Smalls.

I think it was somebody else again, though, Robert Smalls.

Right now that's being made and that is being made into a narrative film right now, because I'm following it.

It's the Defiant project.

Right now.

It's a graphic novel.

They return, they're turning it into a film.

But the documentary, I think Sam Pollard would be great for that.

I also want to see more inventors, educators, black radicals, more resistance.

I would love to see that kind of work.

And as far as, you know, if Sam Pollard were a regular listener on the podcast, Chris, what would you want to say to him directly?

Keep doing it, you know, keep making the work.

I think, I think these stories have to be told.

I think some of these things were just in a way that I guess wasn't.

I don't know.

I didn't know what to expect.

This is my first time listening or watching documentaries from this lens and thinking about it from where the director was thinking when they kind of.

Usually you just sit down and you try to be entertained.

But if I was a regular listener, I would just continue to, you know, or if he was a regular listener, I would encourage him to continue to find those like spins.

And I want to say hidden stories, but lesser known stories around people related to this culture because, you know, he's, he's.

He's clearly committed to educating people in a creative way.

Yeah.

And I think he.

I think.

I think you do a great job at that.

And we need it.

Yes.

And our young people need it.

You know, it took the words right out of my mouth.

Yes, we.

We absolutely need more of those films and also teaching more of us how to capture that, because you do it so very well.

And with that, before we close, Christopher, where can folks find.

You also maybe possibly mention, you know, the support needed on the documentary that you're currently working on.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

So first, you know, I guess right now, the easiest, instead of giving my email address, but on Instagram, I'm active on Instagram for my radio show.

I'll be grateful if you could follow and also if you want to send any messages and connect me to people who you think would be a great, great person to be.

To be interviewed on the show.

As you.

As I mentioned, we just bring people on there who are doing positive things in the Rochester community and kind of learn about why they do why they do and who they do it for.

So that's Underscore Crush Hour.

Underscore Crush Hour.

Like Rush Hour, but Crush Hour.

And also I'm working on a documentary.

I got some.

Some great news.

Was awarded to run out of space so I can shoot some of my interviews.

Essentially, with the rising costs of everything except for wages, you know, there's a growing trend of people who are employed and homeless at the same time.

Some people have multiple jobs and they still can't afford.

And so the reason I wanted to make this documentary is there was a documentary made.

CBS highlighted the same story, but in Atlanta.

And from some of the rooms I was in or some comments around.

Well, I'm glad that doesn't happen in Rochester.

I'm like, what?

So that's it.

If you can help any way, shape or form, if you're an editor, if you're a camera person, if you know someone who would like to be interviewed, rather a context expert to talk about the state of living wage or the state of housing and homelessness in Rochester, or if you know someone who's.

Who's currently going through it and they wouldn't mind telling the stories, please reach out to me.