Feng Shui is a buzzword we’ve all heard and today we get to have an insightful conversation with Krystal Holm to add depth to our understanding of this powerful tool rooted in science that moves energy through your environment and can be a valuable tool to inviting the things you want into your life. 

Krystal is a Feng Shui Master, Interior Designer & Clutter Expert who helps work-from-home entrepreneurs turn their spaces into offices they love to work in. Using her proprietary framework, The Designed Life Method℠ Mind, Body, Soul, Home, she helps her clients declutter and design a workspace that empowers them to create the life & business that they want. Krystal shows women how to use their workspace as a 3D vision board to help them design who they are becoming & the life they want with it, right into their space.

We spend some valuable time touching on the stagnation that clutter can cause and the surprising way that clutter is a common challenge for many of us.

The best way to connect with Krystal is on her YouTube channel - bit.ly/WatchKrystalTV

Get her downloadable 5 step guide to Declutter your mindset at -DeclutterYourMindset.com

Book a time to chat with Krystal about working with her individually at PeaceAndProsperityAlignment.com

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Shawna Rodrigues 0:02

We've all heard of Feng Shui, but after today's episode, you'll be able to see it as more than a marketing ploy and understand it as a tool it can be in creating the life you want. We also get to chat a little about clutter, something I'm a little too familiar with. And something you may be a little familiar with also.

Shawna Rodrigues 0:23

Welcome to The Grit Show. Growth on purpose. I'm Shawna Rodrigues, and I'm honored to be leading you on today's journey as part of this community, growing together as seekers and thrivers. I'm glad you found us. Stick around to the end of the show to hear more about how to enter our giveaway that is wrapping up at the end of August. Today's guest is Krystal. She is a Feng Shui master, an interior designer and a clutter expert who helps work-from-home entrepreneurs turn their spaces into offices they love to work in, even if they suck at it. Using a proprietary framework, The Designed Life Method℠ Mind, Body, Soul, Home, she helps her clients declutter and design a workspace that empowers them to create the life and business that they want. Krystal shows women how to use their workspace as a 3d vision board to help them design who they are becoming & the life they want with it. Thank you so much for being here, Krystal. Welcome.

Krystal Holm 1:20

Thank you. I'm so excited to be here.

Shawna Rodrigues 1:22

So how did you first get involved at looking at Feng Shui and looking at clutter?

Krystal Holm 1:29

How did I first get involved? I sort of feel like that was, I was destined to be there really.

Shawna Rodrigues 1:34

Nice.

Krystal Holm 1:35

Yeah, interior design was always my thing, right? Even when I was a little girl, I was always rearranging the furniture in my Barbie Dream House or my old bedroom, quite frankly, and my sister's bedroom like, you name it. I was always moving the furniture and decorating stuff. Then when I went to college, and I really didn't know what to go to school for, I debated back and forth between forensic psychology and interior design of all things, because they actually were closely related.

Shawna Rodrigues 2:02

Sounds like you found the plates are closely related.

Krystal Holm 2:04

I did, I did, actually, I did. Which is the funny part because I went to school to be an interior designer. And in my psychology class in college, I had to write a paper related to my field of study. And the instructor put this little caveat on it that only one topic was allowed, like, we couldn't have everybody writing like the psychology of color, like it was, the design for your paper. And it was only one person per topic. And at the time, Feng Shui had been popular in the United States for about five or six years. It's been around in China for thousands of years. But it had only been in the United States for about five or six at that time. So I'd heard of it, but you know, I hadn't really had time to study it. Like it was something that I was interested in. And it was on my radar. And I knew it had to do with energy and the house and that sort of stuff. But I didn't really know. So I was like, Okay, well, this is perfect, right? I could write my paper about this. My psychology paper about Feng Shui. And so, and the impact of your relationship with your home, right? So I came to it that way, which is probably a little different than most people come into Feng Shui. But that was my introduction to it. And so after I wrote this paper, I was even more intrigued, right? Because energy work had also always been a thing I've learned about it for my stepmom when it was like nine, as we call it magic. Of course, we didn't call it energy work. But as I grew up, I started to really understand what she was teaching me. And so I understood the basis of like Feng Shui and what this, this was. It was really about getting into alignment with the energy so that you can manifest life. And I was like, Oh, I've been looking for this for 30 years, you know? Well,

Shawna Rodrigues 3:49

yeah,

Krystal Holm 3:50

yeah. But it didn't quite make sense to me. Like I couldn't quite figure out how to implement it. Just out of the books I was reading. So I was like, Okay, let me try to implement it in my life and see if I can figure it out. Because it didn't quite make sense yet. And so I started doing that, and finished school, and a few years into my career, I'd moved overseas and I just started a brand new job. And my boss suddenly pulled our whole design team together one morning, and she was like, does anybody know anything about Feng Shui? We have this final project submitted to the client for approval and the client rejected it back because the Feng Shui was wrong. Right? And it was like, nobody knew anything. Everybody was just like, okay, in a scramble. And so she was in a panic. Like, this is a multimillion dollar project. This was not a little gig. And so she was now in this massive panic after a year's worth of work or whatever it was to be. No, and I was the only person who volunteered and said I knew anything at all about Feng Shui. And she pretty much tossed the project to me and was like, Here you go. Fix this. Whick is like, yeah, right. I'm brand new on the job. And there's always that little bit of time window where it's like, you just get to learn what this position looks like. Like what the job looks like.

Shawna Rodrigues 5:10

Yeah, exactly.

Krystal Holm 5:11

And that's when I got thrown this thing. So I was like, Oh, great. Now I didn't panic because I don't necessarily feel like I 100% understand Feng Shui like, I've read 100 books at this point, you know, six or seven years in. And I still don't know if I know what I'm doing. And I don't know what they know, is more important like, the client might know more than me, and I might be doing it wrong. I was kind of in a panic but I really had fun. And I really fell in love with the whole process. Like, to me it completed something, right? Designing a room for people that was just the way they wanted it to look, it wasn't quite finished. But when I started doing this energetic part, and really getting them into alignment was more like it fits suddenly. But of course, I was still in that place of, oh my gosh, I don't know if I know what I'm doing. So of course, I, being me, I went back to school, when I was like, I don't know why none of this makes sense. But there's got to be a reason why this book says this thing. And that book says this thing, and they all say something different and why it doesn't make sense. So I found a school that actually taught Feng Shui. And I delved into it much deeper, and started to learn all of those things. And then I was like, Okay, now, now I've got something. Now I can, you know, take this on.

Shawna Rodrigues 6:32

So most of my listeners probably have just heard the term and really don't know where it fits into anything. So you've kind of said, it's the energetic movement within a space. But is there a way to kind of sum up the benefits and how you would define it?

Krystal Holm 6:46

Yeah, it's the study of the flow of energy in your space. It's, it's about the relationship between you and your space at an energetic level, right? It's about the study of that, the flow of energy in the environment and how it moves and where it moves and how it impacts us. Like its impact on people and your relationship with it.

Shawna Rodrigues 7:08

So the reason you got different information from different sources is because it changes based on the environment very frequently, or based on the people or,

Krystal Holm 7:16

Shawna Rodrigues 8:37

So, it's a marketing tool, but didn't necessarily have keeping behind that.

Krystal Holm 8:39

Well, right. Because they weren't marketing actual Feng Shui. They were just selling their garbage. Because Feng Shui takes a long time to learn. And it's complicated. It's a science. It's based in architecture, and physics and geometry and design. So there's a lot of math involved. There's a lot of calculations involved in doing it. And I actually see people post up all the time, they'll be like, yeah, there's too much work involved so I'm just gonna do this and call it Feng Shui. And it's like, You are what makes it bad. You are the what gives it a bad name, right, when you've got those people out there. And that's literally what happened. A bunch of people just jumped on the bandwagon and called themselves experts, and wrote books that were garbage because they didn't actually understand the principles or the methodologies, and couldn't be bothered to, to spend their time learning because they weren't interested in that. I was actually interested in the result because I was interested in changing my life. I grew up in a super abusive household. So when I was introduced to magic at like nine years old, I literally thought that was the answer for me to escape the situation that I was in. So I studied magic diligently, and all sorts of things about energy work from the time I was nine, pretty much my whole life because to me, it just, it started off as the answer. And then it became interesting and fascinating.

Krystal Holm 8:50

It's so exciting that it has all of its science and math and pieces behind it that I think a lot of people don't recognize as being part of what makes that energy flow happen and what makes the design work the way that it works. Because I think even the principle I've heard seem to be really simple about with corners, but they don't go into detail about what exactly needs to happen.

Because most people have been introduced to fake Feng Shui, which is also why it's been vilified so much, because it can't be proven as real, because mostly what they're trying to prove is the fake people, as opposed to actually going back to the source, and looking at the original Feng Shui teachings, the traditional or classic, which is where I ended up getting studied, I went to school to study traditional Feng Shui and learned all of this stuff. And then I was like, Okay, so now let me list real things so I can start applying it to my own life. Like, I said, I grew up in a violently abusive household, and I would reach the stage on a healing journey, where I was working on my relationship with men and wanting to find love again. And so I was actually, in this coaching program with about 50 other women. We are all on a mission to heal ourselves and find love again, most of us have been through a divorce, a few people had been widowed, or, you know, just we'd had past relationships, and we wanted something healthier going forward. And since I was just finishing up with school, and kind of looking like, Alright, I need some guinea pigs, so that I can start, because I don't even apply it to my life for years with all the fake stuff and trying to figure it out. And I was like, now I know how to do it for real. Now I practice, so I can become good at it. And so I literally went to my group of these women, and I was like, let me help you Feng Shui your house, make room for this romance, for this love interest that you're gonna bring in. And so I started working with all of these women, just one on one with designing their space. They lived all over the world, right? So I was trying to figure out how to do it virtually too. And so this was like at the beginning stages of figuring out my business model before I started my own business when I was working for somebody else. And I'd be talking to these women about trying to Feng Shui their house and I'm like, alright, we have to get rid of all the clutter that's there now. You've got to remove everything but let's at least get rid of the clutter that you don't want or less a blank slate to work with, then we can move everything into alignment and get the Feng Shui right and then we can design it beautifully. And then you can have this wonderful space that you get to live in, that is designed specifically to help you manifest the life that you're trying to create, the love that you're trying to create, this relationship. And so I started working with these women and every one of them inevitably got stuck right there at clutter. I can't declutter. I can't declutter. I can't declutter this. They couldn't get the clutter. Any of it. It would be one thing, it would be this other things like, they just couldn't get past the clutter part. And so I'm like, okay, well, I can't do the Feng Shui part if they can't get through the clutter part, right? So I never had a problem with clutter. Like I've always just been like, declutter, declutter. I've always been this person. So for me, it was just like an instinct, just sort of coach them, right? Coaching them on this clutter stuff. And you're talking to me, and I'm learning all this stuff. And I'm like, wow, this is super fascinating. Because it's all the psychology part, right?

Yeah.

I'm totally back to the full circle of where I was introduced to Feng Shui. And I first heard these ideas and I thought about all the psychology and I'm like, here is where it is. None of Feng Shui talks about clutter other than this brief little lip of a mention of saying, like how it stagnates the energy and how bad it is. But then that's it. Like, we just move on, because Feng Shui is about the calculations and the alignment and stuff. And so here I am with all these clients that are stuck in clutter, and I'm diving into some psychology books, like I'm doing what I can coaching them just instinctively. But what can I dig in more? And what am I learning and really like a master's degree, right? You're learning about all of this, because it really is all of the trauma. It's all of the trauma that we are carrying around from all of that stuff. And that's what declutter is. It's all that reflection when your home is just a mirror, right? It's an energetic extension. It's an extension of your energetic group, so we treat it that way, right? That's why we decorate. We want it to reflect us. We want it to reflect the things that we love and the colors that we like and all of those things, but it also reflects all the stuff that we don't realize we're carrying around. And so for me, it was like this several years worth of just fascinating study and learning and growth with working with these women of really helping them and then I got an injury. I was still growing this business. It was still starting, so I was still part time, and I was still working full time, I was doing both things at once. And I was injured pretty badly, actually. And it became this big giant workman's comp battle, basically, that drug out for about three years. Because it took almost a year and a half for me to get a diagnosis, right, between all of the, no, you can't go to this appointment. And no, you don't really need that specialist. But you need to come to our independent medical examiner's who we will tell you who they are, and we will pay them and we will even tell them what to say. And so, it took like a year and a half to figure out that I had torn a tendon in my groin, so every time I took a step, I was causing serious injury to my body. It took almost three years to get surgery.

Oh, wow.

Yeah. So in the meantime, I had just been sort of starting this business and kind of growing and I actually reached the point where I had hired somebody to help me, like, Okay, I know, I have all these clients. And I don't know what to do with that. I was stuck, I was on bed rest for most of three years, I couldn't get any treatment, and I reached a point where I honestly became my own clients. Because I couldn't move, I couldn't do anything, my house started to get cluttered, the energy started to stagnate in my space. And I actually was like, Okay, well, I'm going to design my own space to help me with my healing. I'm going to Feng Shui my space, specifically, instead of finding love. Now, I'm going to do it really specifically geared towards this healing idea. And I started doing yoga in my space, and really started noticing and putting it all together, the process of how it works, because like I said, I've been studying energy and magic forever, and I got it. This whole raising the vibration of the space. And so every time I did yoga in the space, that would be like, generating all of this stuff. And I was like, Aha, I got it. Like, Feng Shui makes sense to me. But it totally changed like, everything about in how I worked with clients, like I restructured everything about this is how it work goes like, this is, this is what you need to do to truly create a space that changes your life, I changed my whole business model, like I stopped working with those women. And I started really focusing on working with entrepreneurs on their space to really help them in that process of becoming a version of who they are. And it's evolved over the years since then. But yeah, that's how I got here.

You got there. So with the clutter, cause again like Feng Shui is the study of the energy, and then movement and bringing that energy, and so you can manifest the things that you want. And so with that clutter is what stagnating at all and gets, you know, most of your clients that their clutter is what stopped them. And you talked a little bit about how that's a reflection of you and where you're at. I'm sure a lot of people listening are like, Yeah, I have the clutter and they're fine with that. Can you talk a little bit more about that connection and how you work with your clients to break that connection?

Yeah, well, I have my own framework, right? I have this framework, The Designed Life Method, and it's sort of like a four step thing. Mind, Body, Soul, Home. So the first part of that is we talk about the clutter, like I said, because it is a reflection, it is a barometer for what's current, right? Because we come in and we decorate our hole generally with what we want people to see or how we want that to look. But as we're living in it instinctively, it's a barometer for what's current, right? I'll give you a good example. If you ever get the flu, or you get sick, and you're in bed for a few days, right? You tend to keep the lights off, curtains close, everything is dark and dingy. And you'll start to get a pile of some dirty dishes, or maybe some tissues, you know, dirty clothes, in the space, right? In your bedroom, like your nightstand my email covered with four or five dirty cups, or maybe some bowls, some used Kleenex's, and it's just kind of gross. All of that will now stagnate up the energy in the space and start to slow things down. But it's because you started it. You were sick, you started to slow down, right? Now as a result of that, all the stuff, all the clutter is happening, which will then slow down the flow of energy in your space to match you, right? Because it's a barometer. When you start to feel better, your first instinct will be to clean up your room.

Mm hmm.

Because now you're moving and now you got to energy moving. It's our natural instinct. But if you're sick and you want to feel better, and almost everybody has done this at least once too, you get up, you take a shower, you get dressed, you clean up your space, then suddenly you feel better. Because you intentionally got that energy moving. And it helps with the sickness because it helps pull it out of your body. Because it's a barometer for what's going on. So you can change the inside by changing the outside, because the outside is a reflection of what's going on inside.

Perfect, right.

So the same is true of all your clutter. It's a reflection of what's going on internally. Most of us just have a tendency to put it in boxes and try to hide it in the closet or under the bed or, you know, in a cabinet somewhere. And a lot of it is straight up clutter, visible, a loud crowd hanging on the wall sitting on the counters. It's just out there, but it's still clutter. And a lot of that is just because we don't even recognize what our clutter is.

Yeah, we don't get to identify what our clutter is before we can get it to move.

Right. And that is the first step. That's literally the first step, I have my own method. In fact, I can share it with your audience, they can download it for free at declutteryourmindset.com. And literally, the first step of that is to discover your clutter. Because most of us have no idea. We think it's trash it's clutter. And it's, yes, and clutter is more than just trash. It's all sorts of things. It's everything that you don't need to use or love. So we have a lot of clutter floating around that most of us don't even recognize as clutter. And it's all the time, 24/7, 365, reflecting that barometer to you of all of those, like limiting beliefs and the baggage that you've been carrying around, probably since birth. Right? All of it before you were seven.

All of the things you want to get to and don't get to. And it will just add up and cause pile.

Right. Usually it looks like scarcity, or worthiness or obligation clutter. It's what I tend to find mostly as I'm working with clients, and it tends to go into cycle, you don't have just one everybody has generally all three of them. But they'll just go in a cycle sort of like a spiral, right? As you'll declutter a little bit, then you move into the next one, and then the next one, and then it'll be back at the first one. Because it's just like anything else. We're always growing and evolving. So our clutter is always evolving as well. Something might not be cluttered today. And tomorrow, it could be clutter. And so when that happens, it has to be moved along, in order to keep that flow of energy going.

Great work that you do. I love that your doing that. How long have you been doing this work specifically with that clutter and working more individually with people?

Oh, for a very long time. 20 years.

That's amazing. And I'm sure it's made a big difference for a lot of folks. And so now you do specialize more with entrepreneurs. Do you work with others or just specifically with entrepreneurs?

Um, I mean, I work with other people too, because I help them with their clutter. But, mostly, I try to work specifically with women that are entrepreneurs to help them on their office space, because their mission is big businesses that change the world. And right now, I think we need that. If we really are going to put an end to these systems, these patriarchal systems of white supremacy and oppression of women and people of color, we have to have something to fill that with. And these are the types of businesses that I want to support. And why I feel like it's so important because the work that we do applies to everything. Right? When we talk about clutter, it's not just your office, it's your whole home and your whole life. But, most of the work I do, especially one on one with clients is working with them on their office and their bedroom spaces.

So what is the first thing you do with a business that's connected to the work around the Feng Shui? What's the first step? Is it doing the download that you have around the decluttering?

I would always say, I start with decluttering. Yeah, it's gonna help you. The first step is really to be getting to that sole purpose business, right? The business that really inspires you and drives you. But, sometimes we got to declutter a lot of crap to get to it. Right? It took me seven businesses to figure out that was my passion. And that was my purpose. The six business was close. I was still helping women and I was still helping them to feel empowered in their lives around their relationships. And a lot of the work I do today still affects the relationships because businesses are all about relationships. It's just more focused. So yeah, you really have to get there. But sometimes you have to declutter all the stuff that's in the way to be able to unpack that.

Yeah.

Always start with declutter.

Always start with that. What are some of the biggest myths that your entrepreneur clients walk into the space when they work with you? What's the biggest myths that they have about this work?

That they can wait until later. That's probably the biggest myth. But it's really not that important and then it can wait. You know, a lot of people think, Oh, I'll hire an interior designer and design this office after, right? After I've reached six figures, or seven figures or eight figures, and that's a part of the conditioning, right? Because that's what we're taught as, if this is a reward, if this is a luxury. But it's not. It's very mandatory. Because the thing is, you have Feng Shui, whether you do it intentionally or not, you're just either living very instinctively, and letting yourself struggle until you get there. Or you do it upfront, and you make that change and now you get the flow of energy, so that you're in alignment with it and make it all easier. Right? Swim in with the flow instead of swimming upstream, but we're taught, we're taught so many wrong things, right? Everything seems like everything we're taught is literally the opposite of what's real.

What's gonna make things flow for us and work for us.

Right.

And have things in alignment.

Right. Sort of like if you work harder, you'll make more money. Yeah, but that's not how rich people do it. You should work harder. Pretty much everything we've been taught is completely backwards of the truth.

Yeah, so it takes a lot to undo some of that conditioning. You know, I thought that that's great. You figured all of this out and decoded it and shared that information with others and getting them there as well.

It's funny, both of those two questions you just asked me, I've literally just finished uploading YouTube videos about both of those back to back. For each one, I was uploading them yesterday, to YouTube and I talked about both of those exact things. It's like the most recent video. So

that's great. You got to share it. You have a YouTube channel where you do regularly share these tips and tricks and pieces of information. Do you want to share the content for that, too?

Um, sure. You can find me at just, WatchKrystalTV with bitly, right? To at Bitly link to WatchKrystalTV.

Excellent. We will have all those links in the show notes so you guys can easily connect with her. But I like, I usually drive, or I'm doing other things that I listened to bypass so I like hearing it as well as being able to find it later. So I get a little tag for it. That's wonderful. Yes, this is very useful. And then as a topper, you're also launching some more of your individual work then, so people can kind of connect with you and you have a place where they can connect with you to be able to set up a time to talk with you about that?

Yes, I'm going to be taking on one on one clients again. I have not taken on one on one clients this year. So this will be the first time this year I'll be taking you on six to work with me for three months, on their clutter and on their office space. And yeah, they can book an appointment with me to have a conversation about their office and kind of like what's the struggle? What do you need help with? How can I help you? And are we a good fit? To make you sleep up a call to chat with me about that, at peaceandprosperityalignment.com

Okay, and we make sure we have that in the show notes as well so they can find you. That's wonderful. And we are getting cooked to our time. So this is actually where we get to talk to you about what you do to take care of yourself. So what you do for self care in your world, Krystal?

A couple of things actually, or a lot of things maybe I should say. I am absolutely fanatical about doing yoga every single day. I still do it. I have not missed a day since 2016. Actually, that's not true. I missed five days in 2018. After I had surgery to fix my leg. I do yoga every single day about two hours worth in the morning as soon as I wake up. I spend some time out in nature every day, walking, sitting under a tree doing whatever, declutter, declutter, I do it, I do it. I have it scheduled multiple times a year. It's kind of my go to self care thing. If something is feeling wrong with me, if I'm feeling off, my first instinct is to go to declutter and figure out what the problem is. Because I know I can solve it that way quickly. I am a huge fan of hot springs. I'm so glad to be back in Portland. I've missed the hot springs while we were gone. My favorite, favorite, favorite one is here. So I have already my plans to go at the end of September after my launch cause that is my absolute favorite self care. I tried to go often to the hot springs.

Very good. So self care is very important. So one thing we do here at The Grit Show is we actually give all of our guests a thank you for being on this show. And so we have a series of coloring books we've started called the Color of Grit. And so the first one is out. It's called Vintage Mermaid and Magnificent Ocean. And the second one is You Got This, funny inspirational quotes which is still unprocessed, but you can choose either one of those and we will send you a copy of one of those coloring books to add to your self care. What would you like?

Oh, thank you. Oh my goodness, I don't even know which one to choose. Surprise me. I want a surprise. That's what I want. I love surprises.

All right. Well, you could say that.

I love, Yes, because it's totally my love language. And so yes, surprises are the best. Yes, surprise me.

Nice. Well, good. I got to make sure I get your address for you

I will

so that we will send that to you.

I love it. Thank you.

Definitely. So give something that our listeners can walk away with today that they can apply from this. We definitely talked about decluttering, do you recommend first that they download your five step guide to look at? Or is there a first step that they just start looking around at what might be their clutter or what some first steps they can take?

Download the guide for sure, because the guide will walk you through those steps. And yes, the first step is look around, but it's written on the guide. Just start with that. And the advice that I would give you hand in hand with that guide is to understand that it is a relationship that you have with your space. Just start treating your home and your space like you would treat your best friend. See what happens.

Whoo, I like that. So start treating your space like your best friend and see how things start to change. I like that very much. So you guys all know, you can connect with Krystal on her YouTube channel at WatchKrystalTV. She's launching in September so you can also connect with her if you're interested in being part of that. And of course, declutteryourmindset.com is where you can get that five step guide.

Thank you so much for being here Krystal we learned a lot. It's been great to be here with you.

Thank you. It's been my pleasure.

Right now, during the month of August 2022, on the main page of our website, thegritshow.com, there's a giveaway. When you enter that giveaway, one of the steps is to get on the mailing list. So get the free samples of our coloring pages. And you'll be entered to win one of the five coloring books has been given away and a $50 gift card. You can only enter through August 30. So time is running out. Be sure to go over there and do that right now before you miss your window. The winners will be notified via email, and we'll share their names with you the first Tuesday in September. You can also find out what was chosen as the gift card. Amazon has a default. So we're hoping to give someone something like a spa gift card, a card to their favorite restaurant, who wants you to do a little self care and not that buying items on Amazon isn't self care but might have something else in mind that we want to be supportive of. So go over to thegritshow.com and enter to win The Grit Show, color my summer and $50 gift card giveaway. You might be one of our winners. I hope the end of your summer is going well. I know I can't believe August is winding down. In case no one has told you lately, you are the only one of you that this world has ever got and that means something. I look forward to connecting with you on Thursday.