Transform Your Money Fears Into Financial Wellness with Lindsay Bryan-Podvin

Artwork for podcast Deeply Rested: Anti-Capitalist Conversations for Entrepreneurs

Episode 45 • 14th July 2025 • Deeply Rested: Anti-Capitalist Conversations for Entrepreneurs • Maegan Megginson

Maegan

Do conversations about business finances make your eyes glaze over? Most conversations about money are logical, rigid, and rooted in harmful capitalist practices. But Lindsey Bryan-Podvin is here to set the record straight. Lindsey is a certified financial therapist, founder of Mind Money Balance, and author of the book, The Financial Anxiety Solution, and she is here today to help us bridge the gap between our heads and our hearts when it comes to navigating the financial landscape of our businesses.

By viewing money through a holistic lens, Lindsay offers a financial paradigm that privileges self-trust, safety, and empowered decision making. We are moving beyond financial literacy, and we are diving into financial self-care and sustainability. Hmm. It feels so much better over here. This conversation was originally recorded for my fundraising event, the Rest and Success Code.

And it is perfect if you're craving a more holistic approach to financial wellness. And don't forget to text the link to this episode to your business bestie so that they can benefit from Lindsay's wisdom and be a sounding board so that you have someone to talk to about how you are going to weave more financial wellness into your life and business after listening to this conversation.

Alright, let's do this. Put away your spreadsheets, open your heart, and enjoy this deeply rested conversation with Lindsay Bryan-Podvin.

Maegan

Hello, Lindsay!

Lindsay

Hi, Maegan. I feel like I've been recording with you and talking about Rest & Success Code via so many different like video chats and emails. So it is kind of surreal that it's here. And I'm excited to be here.

Maegan

I know. I am so excited to have you here. And I am very excited to see where this conversation takes us today. It's I have a feeling we're gonna be like, delightfully surprised by some of the things that emerge. So let's not keep the people waiting, Lindsay, let's like, let's get into this. So for those of you listening, who are new to Lindsay and her work, Lindsay is a certified financial therapist, and your work, Lindsay, centers around the intersection of money and mental health. And I think that this is so important for business owners specifically- inside of myself as a business owner, am I really examining what the intersection of money and mental health looks like for me? And then you and I were talking back and forth with video messages about like, well, what do we want to talk about in this interview, there's so many directions we can go. And we kept kind of arriving back at a similar theme we've experienced personally and with our clients around the way external expectations and internal perfectionism can really stifle us and shut us down as business owners. So just to get us started, I would love to hear you speak a little bit to the way expectations and perfectionism have shown up for you and for your clients.

Lindsay

Oh my gosh, well, this is a great question. Because I'm a Virgo I'd like to say I'm a recovering perfectionist, and I'm also an eldest child. So what that looks like for me as a financial therapist in private practice is I look back on when I started out, and how I wanted to do things, quote unquote, right. And to me, that meant seeking the expert opinion of other people and then executing it exactly as they prescribed to me. But as you know, anybody listening can probably imagine, that doesn't work for most external expectations. And it certainly doesn't work in our business. And I had to do a lot of internal reckoning and reorganizing and recalibrating to figure out what my relationship with my business was going to be, what felt good to me and how to thread the needle between best business practices and also best practices that felt good in my body and that were sustainable for me. But it was a lot of trial and error. And I think conversations like this are so welcome because so many of us have the trial and error behind closed doors. So to just normalize and validate that if you've experienced any of the things that Maegan and I are talking about, you're not alone.

Maegan

Yeah. Oh my gosh, you are so far from alone. And I want to just highlight what you said about- we step into this trap when we do things exactly as they are prescribed to us by other people. Right? It's like the external expectation. There's this part of us that believes that other people know more than we do, other people are smarter than we are, wiser than we are. So we should defer to their advice and their wisdom. And we do it without actually checking in with ourselves first to see like, well, does that resonate for me? Does that feel good for me? And if we are struggling with perfectionism, we are then doing this dance between trying to meet the expectations of others and trying to do it in a way that ensures we get an A plus on our assignment. And then we're just like, we're just on the hamster wheel that, like you said, isn't sustainable whatsoever. And I know you have some interesting perspectives on how this dance shows up financially in our business is too, like the the relationship between money and expectations and perfectionism. Tell me more about what this looks like financially inside of our businesses.

Lindsay

To take a step back, before we even get to the business part, I think it's important to just level set that the financial industry as a whole has really leveraged our overall anxiety of wanting to do money right, by making it sound like you are only good with money if you do these handful of things. And so when we then kind of take that background and layer it into our businesses, particularly service based business owners who have our own internal moral and ethical compass, it can become really distressing, because we want to do the right thing. But we also don't know what the right thing is for us, because so many of us have never explored our relationship with money outside of our businesses.

So because we don't even have an understanding of what we think and feel and believe about money heading into our businesses, it can be like diving into the deep end, trying to figure it out. And to play with that metaphor, if you're diving into the deep end of your business and trying to create a financially viable option, you're going to scan the horizon for every single thing that you can grab onto and in really quick succession. So I often see people kind of over consuming other people's content and learning of how to do business the right way. So they're in the deep end, everything floating by looks like a live raft. And so they're grabbing masterclasses, and they're downloading 100 podcasts, and they're signing up for so many accountability groups, but they haven't even paused to think about where they are in business, and what they want and what best suits their needs. It's not to say that the people out there teaching and training, hello, raises hand, aren't doing good things. But we are not the best fit for every person. So it's so important that before we consume, we take a beat to tune into what we actually need.

And so we can start out by right away, letting a lot of money flow out of our business in the name of doing business, right. And then that kind of side effect of consuming all of this content without actually checking into your inner compass is that you may not be able to actually implement some of the tools and tips and strategies that are very well meaning and may very well be viable for your offer. And it kind of gets coupled with all of these other side effects such as under pricing your services, or struggling to maintain healthy financial boundaries. In service based business owners this could look like not only pricing too low, but maybe struggling to adhere to things like a late cancellation fee, or a no show fee, or how much money you allow your clients to owe you before you temporarily discontinue services.

Or if you're doing something like a speaking engagement or consulting engagement, not asking for compensation or not asking for and not enough compensation. And it can also look like the anxiety of throwing more money at things can intensify. And so we might start to do things like financially outsource in our business when we're not ready. So we spend money on a custom website. But we don't even know what our niche is. Or we spend money on Facebook ads, but we actually never hang out on Facebook and don't really have a good grasp of how it works or if our clients are there. So those are the some of the things that I see come up again and again when we are financially turning to others to tell us what to do.

Maegan

Mm hmm. So many things here we could dive into I want to just tug on a couple of specific threads that are really resonating for me as I'm listening to you right now. First I so appreciate this really gentle reminder that it starts with you first, right? That you can't just dive into, you know, business finances, if you haven't really kind of slowed down and examined your own personal relationship with money, the money stories that you are bringing in to your business as a human who has existed in this capitalistic society. So it's- money is an inside job. And understanding our relationship with it, it's like, it's an inside job first. And if you do the personal work, first, you were going to step in to your business from a much more grounded financial perspective, you're going to be able to kind of see the forest for the trees and really be an informed consumer when it comes to identifying what do I need and what is supportive to me. And then I can just let go of all of the other things that I quote, should be doing. It's such a powerful reminder. So thank you for that.

You said something that I have to mention, because it it's a theme that shows up in another interview this season with Zafira Rajan. And it's about consuming, and how we're all consuming so much information and content that we really lose connection to our own intuitive and creative self. And I'm just wondering if, if there's anything else that you want to say about that, especially to people who are consuming so much content, masterclasses podcasts, blog posts, email newsletters, they're consuming so much that they've really lost that connection to their own intuition. What do you want to say to those folks, any words of wisdom?

Lindsay

Ah, I just want to say been there, done that. And will do it again. Because every single time we try out something new, particularly for folks who are in similar fields, we have been conditioned to turn to other people to tell us what to do. In academia, we are supposed to only look at the research and only engage in interventions that are evidence based, we are supposed to put ourselves at the door and be blank slate therapists, we are supposed to question when things like countertransference comes up, what's wrong with us? Rather than saying like, yes, there may be something wrong with me. And also, this may be a huge red flag or a huge, you know, lesson that the person sitting across from me actually isn't my ideal client. So I think I want to first just say, been there, done that, and will do it again. It's so hard to unlearn the framework of learning that we have been conditioned to do.

So something before we hit record, we were talking about our own experiences with this kind of paradox of too much choice, and how and we have so many choices, we almost never take action, you and I were talking about how to choose a shade of paint. And you said it was so great, I worked with this color consultant and they gave me three colors to choose from, which I could actually then do something with versus taking a palette of 136 shades of green and trying to make a decision. So as you are consuming this information, I invite you to think about what are the things that actually don't even deserve to be on your plate, be in your ears, be kind of landing in your inbox in this season of your business, hit pause, unsubscribe, maybe unfollow some of those folks and don't feel guilty or bad about it. I think I can share for myself. And I imagine you share a similar philosophy, Maegan, that if somebody unfollowed me or unsubscribed, I really truly honor their own consent and discernment that my voice, my work, my offerings weren't for them in that moment, or may never be for them. And that's okay. And if/when it makes sense to come back into my world, they can get back in touch with me.

Maegan

Right. I couldn't agree more. And something that I do a lot in my own life and really encourage my clients to do is what I call like a curated inbox, or a curated social feed. So if you're feeling overwhelmed by the amount of information that is coming at you through all the newsletters, you've signed up for all the people you follow on Instagram or whatever it may be, I really believe in taking a deep breath, opening the email, and really checking in with your body and being like how does this person's content make me feel? If it brings me up into my head, if it makes me like all of my like little perfectionistic thoughts are like, oh god, no, I need to do this, and I need to do that. And, ah, now I'm stressed. And there's more to do. If it like brings me into that really kind of frenetic, busy doing space, unsubscribe. Like that's not serving me right now. Or if it triggers for me, and this feeling really lives like deep in my gut, this feeling of like compare and despair, right? If it kind of like, triggers that like, oh, this person's doing that. So I can't do this. And like if it if it brings you into a place of comparison, and self doubt, unsubscribe.

The only content, I want to show up in my inbox or on my feed as content that makes me feel like warm and grounded in my heart. You know, like, I want it to make me feel good. I don't want it to induce busyness, I don't want it to induce overwhelm or comparison. And I think that we all have to find our way to curation, to really making sure that the information we're consuming makes us feel good, and encourages us to trust ourselves and to trust our own intuition. And with that, making sure that what you're curating also includes a really diverse set of voices, too. And like really looking at the identities of the people that I'm learning from and making sure that I am exposed to different people from different backgrounds. And that's a process that I think I will never be finished, I'll never be like, great I've, you know, figured it out. I'm, I'm, I've curated the perfect amount of content. For me, it really is like a day to day activity. But I love that this is where we're starting just honestly assess how much information is coming at you, how many people are you looking to externally to give you the answer about how to feel better, or what to do next? And let's begin the process of really coming back into ourselves and reclaiming our own natural intuitive ability to know which direction we move when. How does that land for you, Lindsay?

Lindsay

Yeah, it's, I'm pausing because it's, it, it just goes back to the chats we've had before we're having this one right here, which is often times the key to alleviate the shoulds, when it comes to our business, is tending to ourselves financially with something called financial self care. And so many of us are familiar with self care as a practice. And we also know that, Maegan, a practice that works for you might not work for me. And it doesn't mean the practice you're using is bad or wrong, or the practices that I'm using are bad or wrong. But we learn to trust ourselves and say, my body, my brain, my spirit, my soul needs this in this moment. And that's okay. And so when we think about moving into taking steps to practice financial self care, I believe that it can help dial down that anxiety, because it just quiets the noise of the things that are coming your way. Right? If I'm not a runner, I don't play one on TV, I have no interest in doing it. I did one 5k in my life, because I felt like I quote unquote, should and turns out, I hate it. And rather than beating myself up and being like, well, I just didn't train right or I didn't have the right shoes, or I didn't wear the right clothes, I can just honor that that's not something that feels good to me, my body and I'd much move my body in other ways.

When we think about nurturing ourselves financially, we have to figure out what are the financial self care practices that work for me now? And what are the ones that like, maybe I'll keep on the horizon, or maybe I'll put in my back pocket to use at a future time? And when I think about financial self care, much like self care is to wellness, to me, financial self care is the same thing to financial wellness. Financial self care, to me is any individual act that takes us toward our version of financial wellness and to me, financial wellness includes a ton of discernment. It is not just financial literacy, or business acumen or business plans or Q3, 4, 5. 5, there's no Q5, planning, right, but it's figuring out what are the things that I want? How do I understand them? And how am I able to implement them in a way that yes supports me financially but in supporting me financially pours over into other domains of my life, such as my physical, emotional and spiritual well being.

Maegan

So I would love to hear some examples of financial self care practices. Yeah.

Lindsay

So outside of our business to go to take a step out. I think it's helpful to have a little bit of both. It could be something like I really value spending more money to purchase food locally when it is available. And that would be a self care practice or financial self care practice, which may sound counterintuitive, because so much financial literacy is about cutting and saving and scrimping. But if that's a value to me, and I have the means to do so then that may be an act of financial self care. It may also be something like putting money in your retirement account, that could be an act of financial self care. It could also be an act of financial self care that when a niece or nephew is doing fundraising, you have the capacity to write them a check, or to even adhere to a boundary and say, hey, I don't do school fundraisers, but what I will do is maybe buy you your pair of soccer cleats, right? Figuring out what feels good to give and receive, and to pay for, and to save for. Those are financial self care practices. And so in business, they might look like adhering to your fee, or making a concerted effort to slide your scale. Or if you operate groups, maybe offering a handful of scholarships, it could also be doing things like making sure that you're looking at your money, once a week, once a month, reconciling your books, some of those things that you might be putting off, but actually taking care of them and making sure everything looks good is an act of financial self care.

Maegan

Well, these examples are so helpful, Lindsay, they're so clear. And there's a through line here, I'm noticing that I really love which is how many of these financial self care practices are really examples of how we live into our core values. Like self care practices are examples of how I practice what I preach. You know, when if I say I value local food and healthy eating, I move money in that direction. If I say I value long term financial security, I move money into my retirement account. If I say that I value community care, then I am putting money into my community. And if I say I value things like groundedness and peacefulness as a business owner, then I'm going to make sure I'm looking at my books once a month and reconciling my accounts. And there's a way that every single example you just shared can be matched up with a core value.

And I have to just throw a plug in here, so many things you're saying connects to other interviews that we have this season. And this is reminding me of this season's conversation with Gina Gomez, who talked about how to create a personal code of ethics and values script as a business owner. So if you're listening to this now, and you're like this really resonates, make sure you also listen to Gina's interview, because you can come up with your values and your ethics and then come back to this conversation and ask yourself how do I create a set of financial self care practices that align with the core values that I want to really live into, in my business and in my life? I think that's a really deep and special part of what you're offering us here. Lindsay, thank you.

Lindsay

The, the other thing that's coming up as I hear you talk about creating a roadmap and a script that you can lean on when it comes to your values and business is to also remember that most of us in some way, shape, or form came into this field because we care deeply about helping, healing, nurturing a particular population. And in the system that we live in, it is impossible to do that if we are not generating profit. And if that feels icky to you, I would like for you to maybe think about generating financial sustainability, right? We cannot serve clients if we are charging so little. We cannot serve clients if we are welcoming and 50 people into a group program when our capacity is really more like 10 or 12 people. We cannot be our best versions of ourselves if we are working at nights and really our energy is best first thing in the morning. So a part of this financial self care is also making sure that you can continue to do the type of changing work that you love to do for as long as it feels safe and good and nurturing to do it. And a big part of that is making sure that your practice is financially sustainable.

Maegan

I love that reframe. Like if sitting with words like you know, profitability if that gives you like the icky I-don't-want-to-be-a-part-of-that-capitalist-system vibes replace it with financial sustainability. You know, like there are ways, and what a beautiful way to really deprogram ourselves from toxic capitalism. I mean, the reality is we do live in this world and we do need cash money to buy things like food and housing. So what we're doing as humans and business owners who want to deprogram from the toxicity that we've internalized, is we have to learn how to walk in both worlds. And we have to learn how to like walk in a world that is more rooted in our values, and our connection to nature and to each other. And then we have to also walk in the world where money is the tool and the vehicle that meets our material needs, our physical needs. And I think that reframe to making sure I have a business that is financially sustainable, is a really lovely example of how you can walk in both of those worlds as a business owner. So thank you, thank you for that phrase.

It's my pleasure.

So I just want to name that I think financial self care, and the way that you are describing it, is the key that could potentially unlock the way many of us are trapped in expectations, and perfectionism that like by naming our values. And by taking care of ourselves financially, both personally and taking care of our businesses financially, we begin to create more space to really think about, what is it that I want, you know, I'm curating the content that comes into me now, so that I'm really inspired by what I'm receiving and allowing myself to be more human and not to have to perform to get A plusses to be on the honor roll, whatever that means for you and your business. It feels like there's a connection here between overcoming those struggles and taking care of ourselves financially, and I'm wondering if you can help me just like bring these two pieces together? What is the connection point?

Lindsay

Yeah, beautiful segue. To me, that connection point is self trust. I imagine for some people who are listening, the idea of practicing financial self care sounds very foreign or different, because they don't know. Or they, they are struggling to trust that what they are doing in their business is right for them. So I think when we can practice self trust, it becomes that two way street. When we trust ourselves to try something out in our businesses, it may lead to an idea about what types of financial self care practices work for us, or we want to try out, or we're like, ooh, actually, I can implement this or try this. So to me, it's about self trust.

Maegan

I couldn't agree more. And I just have this huge smile on my face right now. Because self trust is the through line this season. It's, we're all, in every conversation, we have tapped into self trust, where does self trust fit into this? And my work, you know, helping people deprogram from capitalism, self trust, is one of the biggest elements that we work on together, right? To reclaim trust in our self is one of the biggest, most beautiful things you can do to pull yourself out of toxicity and really root yourself in to your values. And yeah, I want to take this, I want to- let's go personal with this Lindsay.

Lindsay

Maegan

Because you and I share some similar stories in terms of as we, in our own lives and businesses, have started tapping into self trust, it has illuminated things we've created that we've needed to decommission, walk away from, closed down entirely. So I would love to hear your story about the program that you decided to close and how self trust was a really important part of that process for you.

Lindsay

I'm so glad you brought this up. And I didn't think just to name it, I didn't think it would cause, it's not even anxiety, but it's just like a little bit of like, what's what's a good word for, like, pre-anxiety help me out with some of your therapist work.

Maegan

It's like, it's just, it's like a tinge of vulnerability, right?

Lindsay

Yes, yes. Exactly.

Maegan

It's like, oh, like, okay, I'm gonna share- because even though, and I know exactly what you're describing, it's like, even though I feel so proud of the choices that I've made, and so certain that they are the right choices for me, it is still, these choices are still so counter to what is quote, right and acceptable in society at large that it's kind of scary. It's like okay, I'm going to show you this thing and I hope you're going to be nice to me about it. You know, our I hope you're not going to judge me for this. It's a very, it's a really interesting dichotomy to feel so certain in our bodies, but then to feel so vulnerable showing it to the broader world.

Lindsay

Yeah, thank you for helping me tease out what was coming up. So, so I had run seven successful and very profitable cohorts of a group coaching programs specifically for therapists who wanted to do some money work and needed some help cultivating self trust. And were just kind of spinning their wheels about like, what marketing works, what doesn't. And it was born really organically out of my own practice of it filling up really quickly, and having a waitlist and having colleagues say, how would you do that? Tell me. And I thought, you know, I'll answer this in a group program.

g to be transparent with you,: 2023

And it was such a gift to welcome people into that program to give them my all and to model for and with them what it's like to say goodbye without resentment or fatigue. So I closed down my most profitable offer because it came from this place of self trust and this deep knowing that it was time for me to experiment and to expand. And even more frightening than shutting down that offer from a financial perspective, was not necessarily having something ready to go to fill in that financial gap. That's sort of true in that sort of a lie. So the truth is, I have a very full therapy practice, but I only see clients two days a week, I have a very long waitlist with over 250 clients on it at the time of this recording. So I do know that if I was strapped financially, I could open up that waitlist and see clients three days a week or four days a week and be fine financially. But I also knew that I didn't want to do that. I like having a couple of clinical days a week and then a couple of days a week for experimentation. And that's what I'm talking about with not necessarily knowing what financially was going to fill in the gap. Knowing that I had a safety net, but I didn't want to have to use it if I didn't have to.

Maegan

Yeah, yes. I think this is a really important reminder that our baseline financial security is the most important thing for us as business owners to know. This is really exactly what we talk about in Linzy Bonham's conversation this season is how do we know what's enough? How do we know, how do we calculate what our baseline financial number is? So we can do that calculation, right? We can say okay, if I have this many one on one clients, I know that I will meet my baseline need of this. And then from that point onwards, I can really be in the privilege and the luxury of experimentation. And I can play and try some things that work and some things that don't work, and I can do it without the fire of scarcity fueling the decisions that I make.

Because scarcity, if it's real scarcity, and it's alive for you, it will block you from hearing that intuitive voice. It will block you from feeling that deep, knowing that you are naming Lindsay. So I, I love this reminder of like you have to be financially safe and secure in order to really play with safety inside of your business. And once you're in that position, then the magical work begins of listening. I just love the way you're talking about. Deep listening leads to deep knowing about what is right for you. And then we trust we trust ourselves. We trust our intuition. And we share what is unfolding with our community, with our audience, like this process really has to be witnessed by others. And I've never known someone to be in this brave, courageous process of releasing what is no longer for us and stepping into the fog of what comes next. I've never known anyone to do that and not to come out on the other side, feeling so deeply aligned with the work that they're doing now. Your story is really inspiring. How is it feeling for you? I mean, you, you said, okay, a little vulnerability is here in sharing the story. And now you've shared it. And I'm so curious, like, what's happening for you now?

Lindsay

Yeah, it's, what it's reminding me of is having you summarize and reflect for me comes back to this idea of self trust. And, to me, I had that, those financial self care practices in place so that I knew my number, and I knew which levers I could pull if I needed more income. But also to give myself full permission, to look at things as an experiment is incredibly freeing. I think we have a tendency, as small business owners to think that if we make a decision, then it is our decision forever and ever. If I niche down, that has to be my niche forever, if I decide I'm going to change my schedule, that has to be my schedule forever. And when we have that type of finality built into how we change and grow and nurture our business, it's really hard because the stakes feel really high if you feel like this is a forever endeavor decision.

art of the year, I usually do: 2023

Maegan

Yeah, it's a fallacy that we can know what the future holds. And I just want to name that so much of what you're saying right now, again, are these byproducts of toxic capitalism, the internalized belief that we pick one thing, and then that thing is permanent, it's fixed, and that we should, we should experience continual linear growth of this one thing, you know? It's like, quarter to quarter, we need to we need to show growth on our, you know, line graphs forever until we die.

Lindsay

Yeah, and that's not realistic.

Maegan

So many people. It's not realistic and so many people get locked into this, this belief that we pick one thing, and then we have to stick with it forever. And again, it robs us of the play and the flexibility of listening of deep listening, have deep knowing, of pivoting, of experimenting. And it's a real act of liberation to say no to the belief that things are permanent, and to say yes to what you're describing. Yes, to experimentation, yes, to trust yes to evolution. And as we do that, wow. It's, there's so much more joy and aliveness, and the work that we're doing. It's really powerful Lindsay to hear your story about this offer.

And I've, you know, shared with you about like my journey of deciding not to be a therapist anymore. And I'm in the journey again now, as I decided to commission Next-Level Therapist, my signature program, and move into a different type of work. It never ends. And I hope it never ends. Because this is part of what makes this work so fun and so satisfying for me, is the ability to to shift and pivot. And as two who are shifting and pivoting all the time, we also are intimately familiar with fear.

Lindsay

Yeah. Mmm hmm.

Maegan

And how, even when we have deep knowing even when we are so certain that we are moving in the right direction by releasing something and making space for what comes next. It doesn't mean that it's not fucking terrifying.

Lindsay

Exactly, exactly.

Maegan

So tell me a little bit about your relationship with fear and these transitions, and how you've learned to cope with these fears and your own personal process.

Lindsay

To me, fear has been a really interesting little gnat, like I'm in, I'm recording from Michigan. And right now we're on the tail end of mosquito season and I feel like fears a little bit like that. Like it's an annoyance, but we think it's going to be worse than it is. In that, like, I don't want to get bit by mosquito, but if I do, it's totally not the end of the world. And...

Maegan

Being from southeast Texas, deeply resonate with, with this example.

Lindsay

Right, I need all the calamine lotion and all of the things. But what fear has kind of reminded me of and shown up as is, is a few things. One is that fear may be really telling me something is there and something is dangerous, but fear may also be a growth edge in disguise. So I think about, if you are doing a yoga practice, let's say there's this concept of a growth edge, which is, when you are in a pose that is a little bit uncomfortable, it is your responsibility to listen to your body, and decide what makes the most sense in that discomfort. Does it make sense to back off completely and hit Child's Pose? Does it make sense to hang out there for a few breaths and find a new level of strength, probably those two choices are going to be best for your body. The one that probably isn't going to be great is pushing through that discomfort to the point of injury or pain.

And when I think about the way that fear has shown up for me, sometimes it is, it is a real fear. And sometimes it is a growth edge. And getting comfortable playing with it, I shared with you via email that at the time of this recording, I'm still struggling with some COVID fatigue, I'm on week nine, almost 10 of fatigue. And it has given me a new lens on the power of sleeping on it. And what I mean is, I am a person who when I make a decision, I just do the thing. I never really understood the phrase just sleep on it, I wouldn't be the person who would be up ruminating, writing out lists kind of brainstorming. I was not the person who could sleep on something that was concerning. And now I've had the practice of sleeping on a lot of things. And let me tell you that sleep can give you a lot of clarity.

And so I have this, this running Google Doc, about this, something very exciting offer that I did a big brain dump on and then I slept on it and I came back and I got rid of things I didn't want to do. And I added a few things I did want to do. And I just slept on it again. And I'm getting closer and closer to whatever that next thing is knowing that I, it doesn't have to be permanent, I can release whatever this new thing is in a good enough state and be transparent with my audience about what it may look like. And also that it is in its beta version or to use not businessy terms, it's in its first go around. And we learn a lot the first time we do something when we think about, so many of us come from academic backgrounds- when you run a pilot program, you cannot evaluate it until you run it first. And so I'm remembering that as well.

Maegan

I'm reminded of the concept of the window of tolerance, which the therapists listening will will understand, but just this very simple idea of you know, we all have an area where we can be stretched, right? It's like when you go to the gym, not that I do go to the gym, I'm also not a runner. So I hope this analogy lands. But it's like, okay, it's like pretending like you go to the gym, and you're on the treadmill and you're running and you feel okay, and then you start feeling tired, and then you start feeling really tired, but you know you're safe. You know, your body is okay, your body can take this, like you're in a stretch zone, but you're okay. And then there comes a point when your body says nope, you're about to step into injury, and you need to stop. And the window of tolerance works just like that. Like that your body can communicate to you like yeah, this is a stretch, and this is scary and this is new, but you're safe, you're okay, you can do this. And you have to be able to name in your own body when you are moving out of stretch and into injury.

And you have to stop when you're into injury and injury could look like making a financial decision that puts you into real financial scarcity in your life or injury can look like stepping into visibility when you are deep in a painful personal process and maybe you're not really in a place where you can be seen in that way yet. It's different for all of us. But I love what you're saying that their fear can be your body's way of saying, hey, hit pause, you're moving too fast, you're stepping into injury. And I do think most of the time that potential injury is that you are not financially secure enough to take a risk or to try a new experiment which is why you should listen to Linzy Bonham's conversation about how to calculate what is enough and to really know with certainty pen to paper what that baseline financial number is that you need to live safely in this world and your life.

But if you're there, if it's a check mark on financial safety, then the fear is probably just this new part of you that is afraid to be seen, who is afraid to do the new thing is, is just scared because of course, we're scared to let go of something that works. Of course, we're scared to do something unconventional, of course, we're scared to go against the grain and to really put something that comes from our soul out into the world versus something that comes from, from our mind. Of course, you're scared, it's scary. I have been terrified every time I have pivoted, every time I have tried a new thing. So I love this gentle suggestion to like, really explore, what is the fear communicating to you and to trust that whatever it's communicating to you, trust that.

And I would also say in terms of coping with the fear, being in community has been such an important part of the process for me, that like left alone in isolation, the fearful parts of my brain can run amok, you know? It's just like, whoa, like, if you're alone, like things can get really dark, really fast. But to be in community with people who are really kindred spirits, and who are grounded and understand the work that you do and can just hear you and reflect things back and ask critical questions and cheerlead you whenever you need to be supported and push you when you need a little push. Like that community, I think is a really important and powerful antidote to the fear, as well.

Lindsay

Yeah, and going back to this idea of self trust, and financial self care, I think it's important as you're talking about community, to also highlight that we have been conditioned to be incredibly individualistic, and to go it alone. And in reality, for millennia, we have been creatures who have survived and thrived in community. So as you are moving toward experimenting in something new with your business, or learning different ways to practice financial self care, the incredible power of being seen and being held by others to help you kind of get through this process and learn how to trust yourself.

Maegan

Mm hmm. Yes. Oh, Lindsay, this is so beautiful, I absolutely adore the way you are shining a spotlight on this intersection between money in mental health and self and community, that you are really bringing a holistic lens to the way we can be in relationship with finances in our businesses. It's like what you're doing, it just brings me out of my thinking brain and it just brings me into the core of myself, which is where I want to live and where I want to make decisions from as a business owner. So this is, this has been such a gift and you are such a gift.

Lindsay

No, thank you. It has been such a treat, having this conversation with you and getting to know you in this way and being able to share these types of conversations with others. So thank you for having me.

Maegan

My pleasure. And I have one question for you before we go, just a little bonus question.

Lindsay

Oh, okay.

Maegan

I'm asking all of our guests this season. So something I'm talking about with all of our guests is this idea that our business should pay us in more than just money, right? I am like on a mission to help people like rethink what revenue means. What does it mean to generate lifeforce energy from the businesses that we're creating? So I want to know, as a business owner, what is one way your business pays you to live a truly wealthy life in something other than cash in the bank.

Lindsay

This is going to be very specific, because it is something I already brought up earlier. But it's also something that I literally just can't get off my mind. And it's something that I've been saying, to friends and to my partner and to loved ones, literally with the way that my body needs to heal. In these past 9-10 weeks, I have had to take naps in the middle of the day, sleep in, cancel things in the evening. And I keep saying to myself, as awful as this is, I am so thankful. I have a business that allows me to listen to my body and heal. So I may have answered that question in a very different way several months ago, but something that has been very on my mind and on my heart is that it is paying me and it was allowing me to actually listen to my body and allow it to rest in ways that I simply would not be able to if I were traditionally employed in an 830 to 5. There's just no way in our society that I would have a boss or manager who would let me take naps come in late, leave early or cancel meetings. It just doesn't happen. So that's something that is top of mind.

Maegan

Yes, rest is revenue. So important to remember. And such a topical example, as so many people are struggling with long COVID fatigue.

Lindsay

Absolutely.

Maegan

Yeah. Thank you for your honesty about that. And again, Lindsay, thank you so much for joining us this season. It's been a real pleasure.

Lindsay

Thanks, Maegan.

Maegan

I hope you really enjoyed this conversation with Lindsay. Her take on finances and weaving in personal healing and wellness just resonates so deeply for me, and I hope it resonates really deeply for you, too. If you loved learning from Lindsay today, and you want to know more about her and her work, you can check out her website@mindmoneybalance.com.

She even has a free financial wellness quiz on her website, which you can find at mindmoneybalance.com/quiz-financial-wellness. We'll put all of those links in the show notes for easy access. And don't forget if you loved this conversation to share it with a couple of business friends who you think would benefit from Lindsay's wisdom too.

Alright, that's all for this week. Thanks for listening to Deeply Rested. I can't wait to connect with you again next week.

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