Understanding the value you bring to your clients is a critical insight into the path to success for those of us who provide expertise-based services. In this episode of Hourly to Exit, we got meta in our conversation with Ellen Grace Henson, a management consultant focusing on product management. She offered insights based on her work and business that apply to our journey toward creating a business that can be operated independently from our own time.

In this episode, you will learn about:

• The importance of alignment across your business – including your legal and finance operations
• The three types of value we provide to clients: incremental, innovative, and transformational
• How to leverage the common challenges you address regardless of your client size or industry
• BONUS - Ellen Grace introduces us to a nonprofit community for women in consulting

In the journey to scaling our business, Ellen Grace’s understanding of product management translates seamlessly to our “product” –our expertise. Her path has led to creating frameworks and other products that can operate independently from her time. If you have reached that point in your business and are interested in protecting this intellectual property, contact me for a consultation.

More About Our Guest:

Managing Director and Founder of Marketing Mechanics, Ellen Grace Henson, has been involved with high-tech business strategy and product management since the mid-’90s and has been a consultant for 18 years. A thought leader with experience in multiple markets and technologies, Ellen Grace brings a unique combination of analysis and creativity to business and product strategy, market and customer insight, and product-delivery process design. Working with Marketing Mechanics helps organizations achieve alignment from the end user to the bottom line - leading to increased revenue, engaged employees, and satisfied customers. 

Ellen Grace has contributed to the strategy, design and delivery of successful products for start-ups as well as Global 500 companies. A respected guest lecturer in the MBA program at Santa Clara University, she helped define and deliver the inaugural product management certification program, “Productizing Innovation,” for the Executive Development Center at the university. Ellen Grace is a graduate of MIT and past president of Women In Consulting, a professional association headquartered in the San Francisco Bay Area.

Connect with Ellen Grace Henson:

• Website
• LinkedIn

Connect with Erin and find the resources mentioned in this episode at hourlytoexit.com/podcast.

Erin's LinkedIn Page: https://www.linkedin.com/in/erinaustin/

Think Beyond IP YouTube Page: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCVztXnDYnZ83oIb-EGX9IGA/videos

Music credit: Yes She Can by Tiny Music

A Team Dklutr production

Hello, ladies.

Welcome to the

Hourly Exit Podcast.

Thank you for joining

me today, and thank you.

I have Ellen Grace

Henson who's joined me

for today's episode.

Hi.

Hi.

So this is a special

one for me 'cause Ellen

Grace and I go way back

and we've even done some,

productized services together.

And so this is, going

to be an interesting one

today since she is a.

Very experienced management

consultant who has, really

studied some of the issues

that are involved with

creating a business that

can operate independently

from the owner and providing

value to clients other

than selling your time.

And so we are gonna dig

into all of that today.

But first, Ellen Grace,

can you please introduce

yourself to the audience?

Hello audience.

I wanna give Erin some props.

she mentioned that we

did some work together on

productizing services and

it was one of the highlights

of my professional career

working with Erin Austin.

So if you have an opportunity

to work with Erin Austin,

I encourage you to take it.

Wow, thank you.

So, absolutely,

Ellen Grace Henson.

My company's name is Marketing

Mechanics, and I've been

consulting in business

strategy, product strategy,

and product management

for upwards of 18 years.

My company helps our clients

better understand their

markets and customers so they

can build better products,

more successful businesses.

And uniquely, we help

teams align around a shared

understanding of the customer.

I.

One of the top points of

failure for teams is a lack

of shared goals and alignment,

and I like to say that one

of the most natural and

neutral areas for alignment

is a focus on the customer.

So when you have team

members sharing and

understanding of the customer,

collaboration becomes easier.

Shared goals become easier.

So that's part

of the work I do.

Yeah, I mean that,

directly feeds into the

idea of instead of thinking

about the inputs, 'cause

departments are inputs, right?

We're thinking about the

outputs and the results

we're providing to our

clients, which is of

course, customer focused.

I.

And so that is where

the greater value is.

So yeah, I'm very antis

silo, which is obviously

what you work against.

And if you're all working

towards that same goal,

which is the outcome

we're providing, the value

we're providing for the

client, then we are all

working towards the same,

goal.

That's right.

Can I build on

that a little bit?

Please?

Because one of the outputs

also when people have the

understanding that they have

shared goals, They also then

have better connections with

other people on the team.

So what I see a lot in

tech is some jobs are

more highly valued than

others inside the company.

And, um, we forget

sometimes that it's

not just the product.

While the product and the

technology are core to the

value that we deliver, if.

Operations isn't in alignment

and understanding what the

customer needs, there's a

potential point of failure.

Mm-hmm.

If marketing is not

in alignment with the

understanding of the customer,

if there's a misalignment

between product management

and marketing on who the

customer is, there's a

potential point of failure.

And I actually had a client

who brought me in, in

part because their team

wasn't aligned There was

a lot of role contention.

Whose job is it anyhow?

And ultimately there was

a disconnect between what

product was building and

what sales was selling.

Mm-hmm.

And it wouldn't have mattered

how good that product was

when customers received it.

It wasn't what they expected.

It's like, I need A new pair

of fancy shoes for a party

I'm going to, and the company

ships, me hiking boots, and

while they might be the most

awesome hiking boots in the

world, I can't wear them

to the party I'm going to.

Right?

So and that company had been

like number one in market

share and this disruption

or challenge in delivering

value to their customer.

Cost them a lot of customers,

cost them a lot of money

and cost them significant

share in the market.

It gave their competitors

an opportunity to

jump into the market.

So alignment is not just

a nice thing to have.

It's critical for success.

It is.

Absolutely.

And we're gonna talk about

value in a second, but I

just wanted, as you were,

telling us that story, it

reminded me of a kind of

concept idea that I had when

I first started thinking

about like how to pivot away

from working just with big

corporations, which was.

Basically looking at the

entire customer journey and

looking at how all the places

that legal and contracts

are impactful everywhere

along from, the time that

we're talking to them, to

the sale, to the close, to

delivery, including maximizing

the long-term value of

that client relationship.

And, I never quite.

there.

It's still the hanging

out back there, but it

is, to your point, all

these things have to align

to maximize that value.

Both what we give and what we

get from that relationship.

So, absolutely.

And you have the risk of

going off on a big tangent.

I'd be happy to brainstorm

on the role of legal, but

I also wanna say, I think

legal and finance are two

of the most under leveraged.

Groups in the company

for understanding the

value our customers need

and for creating unique

value inside the company.

Right.

So especially now, I mean the

legal environment is much more

complex than, with, security

and management and identity

management, all those things.

It's a much more complex

environment and there's

various points in time

or various points along

the customer experience

where companies are

gathering information about

prospects and customers.

You need a legal

check on that.

Yes.

Mm-hmm.

And not just a legal check,

but also are we doing it

in a way that makes it easy

for our customers to engage?

sometimes when I'm asked about

cookies, it's very simple.

I can set a couple

of things and great.

Other times When a

website asks me about

cookies, they tell me

to go read this comple.

If I wanna, limit the

cookies that are used.

Yes.

They tell me to go read

this complex document and

contact this third party.

I find that

actually insulting.

Why do they wanna make it

difficult for me to have

a positive experience

with their company?

It is.

Well, things have gotten very

complicated with cookies,

with data privacy, certainly

when you're dealing with

international businesses, G

D P R, but you're right, that

is, a long, detour, but I.

I will take you off

on, thinking about how

these two things work

together another day.

Yes, absolutely.

So we wanna talk today

about, the types of value

that we as expertise-based

businesses with corporate

clients, how do we provide

value, for our clients?

And you have some

ideas around that.

I'd love for you

to share them.

Absolutely.

So I wanna make it clear

when we talk about not

just selling your time,

sometimes when, people start

out first in a consulting

or contracting business,

they charge per hour.

All right?

And.

Sometimes that's appropriate,

but as you grow in the

value that you deliver,

you might rethink that and

that's a sidebar we can

take up a little bit later.

So there are different types

of value that as a consultant

or a contractor, you can

deliver to your clients.

One is incremental and

incremental means they

can get more done, right?

So if you're a marketing

contractor, you can help

get more content written.

Mm-hmm.

Another is innovative.

What can you do that might

shift how your client delivers

value to their customers?

What insights can you provide?

Is it a different

take on a market?

Is it a different marketing

strategy or different

sales strategy, a different

legal strategy that's

contributing innovative value?

And then there can

also be value that

is transformational.

That really transforms the

way your client does business

or that transforms the way

your client is delivering

value to their audiences.

that might be something along

the lines of, I'll talk about

this a little bit more later

if you want Aaron, but my

good friend Jim Harran, he

first started in business,

he was a, fractional C F

o, chief Financial Officer.

Then he created the

one page business plan.

Oh, okay.

Mm-hmm.

Not only did he transform the

positioning of his business

and make it more compelling,

he helped transform the

approach companies were

taking to generating business

plans and tracking their

success against that plan

where, a business plan.

We've all probably seen or

worked on business plans

that Maybe even hundreds of

pages long, 50 pages long,

but when you can distill it

down to one page that captures

the most critical points

that can be transformational

to how a company thinks

about its business and

then conducts its business.

Okay, so

to go back over the three

types of values, so starting

with incremental, I think

of that as just being an

extra pair of hands, I

think is kind of the way.

So you're kind of selling an

extra pair of hands, so you

are kind of taking orders from

your client and you have some

skill and, maybe even some

expertise, that they don't

have, but generally, They are

defining what they need and

you are filling the order.

And so, the innovative

one, maybe that's tell

me like how do we look at

the business model for the

innovative type of value?

So I had a client where their

business model was, SaaS.

And they were getting

licensing revenue.

What they were missing

though, was opportunities for

additional revenue streams.

you know, after working

together with them and

understanding their priorities

better and understanding

their customer needs

better, we concluded that.

Different types of

customers needed different

types of support.

And so they had an opportunity

to kind of shift their

business model, not change the

fundamentals of their business

model, but shift it to expand

it, to provide additional

services and thus provide

more value to their customers.

And also, capture more

revenue for the company.

The other thing that.

they were in a position to

do because you know, one

of the things that SaaS

model enables is capturing

a lot more data on use.

Yeah.

Of your software product.

Maybe this starts to get

into transformational value,

but when a lot of times the

data that gets captured is

thought of as an internal

asset and what can we learn

about how our customers

are using the product?

That data can also become,

once you perhaps anonymize

it and massage it in

certain ways, can also

become an external asset

that can transform the

way your customers work,

that can transform the

way your customers think

about their businesses.

So, you have assets, you're

generating assets that you're

not even aware of, that

your customers, your clients

are probably generating

assets that they're not

even aware of how they

can leverage more fully.

Mm-hmm.

So, part of the role of a

consultant, Might be able to

say, Hey, here's value that

you're leaving on the table,

or, here's incremental value

that you can give to your

customers, and then take

incremental revenue from,

so that shifts from just,

I'm an extra pair of hands

to help get things done to.

I'm a high value thinker

who can contribute to

either adding innovation

to your process, adding

innovation to your business

model, or transforming

your business model and

transforming the value that

you deliver to your clients.

Got it.

And so, I mean, at some

point I feel like when

you were mentioning that

transformational, that can

be the value that we provide

to our clients, but also,

transformative within our

own businesses when we are

leveraging all the assets that

we have available, all the

data that is available to us.

Absolutely.

And you and I have talked

about this a lot, and

that's been part of our

productizing services.

Mm-hmm.

Conversations.

Mm-hmm.

so I've been consulting

for 18 plus years and I've

consulted from startups

to global 500 companies, a

variety of teams, a lot of

different technologies and

several different markets.

And one of the things I've

discovered along the way is

there are common challenges.

All of those different,

regardless of the team size,

regardless of the market,

regardless of the company

size and the technology at

play, there are some common

challenges and so I've been

able to, in my business,

create frameworks and

methodologies that are highly

adaptable for my clients.

I don't have to start with

a blank sheet of paper.

Mm-hmm.

Every time I engage

with a new client.

I can start with, the

frameworks are kind of

baseline and then customize

them or maybe more, take

a bespoke approach in the

context of what the client's

needs are and the client's

specific challenges are So

I have gathered all this

information from all these

different companies that I've

worked with to the benefit

of all my clients and all

my new and future clients.

Also to the benefit of

my business because I can

become more effective and

I also have potentially

frameworks that I can license

to other consultants and

grow my that way as well.

Absolutely.

Now, I know that you, I'm

pretty sure that you don't

have a niche, and by that

I mean that there's a

vertical that you work with

specifically, but I think that

you do have a specialization.

Which it sounds like among

clients that have this

similar problem that you have

been able to develop your

frameworks and methodologies

around, is that fair that,

you seem to come into the

same type of problem that

you help clients with,

even if they're different?

I'd say the same.

I don't wanna say type of

problem because I think that

narrows it a little bit.

Yes.

Mm-hmm.

But organizationally,

alignment is a key challenge.

Mm-hmm.

And it's the rare company

that doesn't have a

challenge around alignment.

we talked about that

a little earlier.

It's the rare company where

everybody, a real simple

alignment assessment,

right, is go ask five

different people in your

company who the customer is.

You'll get five

different answers.

I almost guarantee it.

Right.

Wow.

So, that core problem

of alignment then

has other challenges.

the other piece of it,

so my, primary area of

consulting is product

management and just like many

other, areas of expertise,

it's a big umbrella.

Mm-hmm.

Oftentimes I might help

my clients specifically

with process work, help

them uplevel their process

and increase alignment

within their process.

Sometimes I might help

my client with the

skill levels of their

product management team.

Those skill levels can

run from, how do you write

a business case for a

single feature to, how do

you improve your ability

to influence across the

silos in the company?

So that's, can be

pretty far ranging.

So, yes.

Mm-hmm.

You're right.

I don't have a market niche.

Mm-hmm.

I do though, have a,

range within a particular

discipline of work that I.

Engage with my clients on.

Now, was there a time, a pre

framework, pre methodology,

time in your business, and

what did that look like versus

your post framework, post

methodology?

Yeah, so that would be

more the incremental.

think I've always straddled

early in my career,

I think I straddled

incremental and innovative.

Mm-hmm.

Because, my very first,

even before I started

consulting, my very first

product management job, when

I was gonna sit down with

the engineers to brainstorm

on this new product, I

invited customer service in.

Mm-hmm.

An engineer was like,

why are they here?

And I said, but, well, they

talk to customers every

day and I imagine they have

some insights to contribute.

So one of my first tasks

when I started my business,

a previous employer called

me up and said they needed

some help writing some

requirements documents

for a new initiative,

and so I said, great.

I'll work on some requirements

documentation for you.

Now, on the one hand, that

was definitely incremental.

They didn't have the

bandwidth to work on this.

though came in and I said,

for a requirements document,

I'm not just gonna talk

about feature function.

We're gonna look at.

How might this impact

our sales strategy?

How might this impact our

operational requirements?

How might this impact,

documentation and education?

How might this impact support?

So I've always.

Looked at things from that

broader perspective, and

I'm gratified that type of

conversation now is much

more common in the industry.

But early in my career,

I wasn't aware of anybody

else taking that approach.

So it was both incremental

and innovative.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

I

will say, and this is I'm

sure just me, that I hadn't

heard the term customer

experience like CX and before

five years ago, but I guess

it's been, is it fairly.

Recent, or did I just

miss it before that?

No, no, no.

I think it's a

fairly new Yeah.

Way of talking

about the challenge.

Mm-hmm.

don't think there're concepts

that came out just five years

ago, because again, even

from early in my career,

I was trying to understand

and trying to help the

rest of the organization

that I was working with.

Understand.

That it's not just the

experience of the customer

using the product, it's the

experience of the customer

engaging with the company.

Mm-hmm.

At every step along the

way from how they discover.

The company, how they

define their own need.

Mm-hmm.

How they discover you as

a company, how they first

engage with you in terms of,

gaining information, getting

insight to how your offer

might impact them, et cetera.

And then engage from a

business perspective.

And then an area that I

think often gets neglected

in product management also

is how do, then you might

wanna retire that product.

Mm-hmm.

What's the experience that

your customer has while

you're retiring that product?

And that's.

Again, in terms of

the full experience.

So I've always

thought that way.

Mm-hmm.

And I'm gratified to see

now that there's more

concern given to that

full customer experience.

Mm-hmm.

All right.

Now I

wanna go back to one of the

things that you said about.

with your pre framework, pre

methodology, business was more

on the incremental value side.

And so I think, by extension

we can say that if we want

to graduate from being that

incremental kind of extra

pair of hands person to

think someone who creates

higher value, whether, be

the innovation or ultimately

transformational, that we

need to have something that's

uniquely ours that we're

bringing to the table.

Yes, I agree with that

point, and that's a common

challenge for positioning.

It is whatever, whether you're

consulting or you're a company

selling products, how do

you differentiate yourself?

What is the unique

value that you bring?

How do you instantiate

that value and deliver

it to your clients?

Also, how do you talk

about that value?

This kind of taking me off

to a tangent for, what

are the keys to success?

Certainly positioning,

differentiation,

and delivering high

value and developing

awesome relationships.

Are those keys to success?

My frameworks are useless if

people don't know about them.

That's

true.

That's true.

And at the end of the day, do

they need to know about the

framework or do they need to

know about the value that they

get from working with you?

Right.

That's right.

That's exactly right.

there's the why and

then there's the how.

Right, exactly.

I know there's these five

wss and, but, there's the

y, the who, What in the,

how it's for, yeah, I

thought that was, I thought

that was a newspaper

thing about, how to write

newspaper articles, but yes,

but it's also very relevant

when you're trying to figure

out the value that you deliver

and who your audience is

and et cetera, et cetera.

Mm-hmm.

So, anyhow, I think I've gone

off track here in my thinking.

Bring us back to

the point, Aaron.

Oh, well, just that, having

the frameworks and the

methodologies that's internal

to you, but that's how you

get to, providing that value

consistently, and that you

That's right, are going to

get that result for your

client that you promised them.

But at the end of the

day, client cares about

the result and not that,

oh, it's your framework.

I'm so happy It

was your framework.

That's right.

It's not, theoretical,

it's applied.

Right, exactly.

Exactly.

And the application and the

results are what matters.

absolutely.

And my clients have.

Some pretty good results.

Yeah, that, that is fantastic.

I talk about that a little

bit more if you'd like.

Well, I know that we

wanted to talk about,

kinda the education

for project managers.

Is there, tell us

where you'd like to go there.

So there's a couple of things.

I first started in product

management, there was no.

Training available.

There were no classes,

there were no schools.

every major university

offers product management,

education and there's a

lot of, companies that have

grown up around product

management education.

And you can be a certified

product manager, right?

that's a fit, right?

Yes.

As a matter of fact, I

helped, with the local

university, I helped define

the certification program

for product managers.

Oh, cool.

Thank you.

so when I first started,

I wanna go back to that.

I asked the hiring vp,

were there guidelines,

anything I should do,

anything I should follow?

And he is like, no.

And I said, well, okay, as I

learn things or create things,

should I document them?

He said, no.

Which I found so interesting.

I found that so interesting.

But to me it's really valuable

to pass on what we know to

pass on what we've learned.

And because I didn't have

that kinda external training

or external opportunity,

I did invent and create a

lot of things for myself.

Mm-hmm.

Along the way.

And I still find like product

management is still a very

big umbrella, as I said, and

a lot of product managers are.

Focused on feature function.

And one of the biggest

challenges I've had younger

product managers bring to me

is, the c e o or some other

executive is insisting that

we, add this new functionality

we're already maxed out

on our ability to deliver

against the, schedules.

So how do I push back?

This is where it's very, very

interesting to me that most

product management people

don't seem to understand the

business context and don't

seem to be able to validate

the business context mm-hmm.

That they're working in.

Mm-hmm.

What does it mean

financially to the company?

What does it mean to

the market, et cetera.

So what I've, Came up

with was this one page,

business case, right?

So how do you write a

simple business case?

Mm-hmm.

The other side of that is how

do you think more expansively,

these are the types of

things I wanna educate other

product managers around.

How do you think more

expansively about

your customer, right?

And what is you really,

your responsibility as

the person who advocates

for the customer?

It's not just Listening

to your customer is really

important, but listening to

the market, understanding

what's possible, understanding

things that your customer

is not in a position to

understand, anticipating

future needs, those are all

really important, I believe.

Mm-hmm.

Because if you're just chasing

another anecdote, if I may.

Yes.

I've done a lot of work on

pre-market technology, and.

What I typically do, you're

trying to find the right

market fit for a technology,

is you come up with different

scenarios, potential use

scenarios for that technology.

Then you go and you

interview people.

So I had this particular

pre-market technology

I was working with.

I came up with different

scenarios and I interviewed

six directors of product

management within that space.

And I said, do you think

this scenario would be

interesting to your customers?

And every single one

of them said to me,

nobody's asking for it.

And I.

Stunned by.

Because nobody could ask

for it, because nobody

knew that it was possible.

Mm-hmm.

Right.

That's like Steve

Jobs, somebody saying,

nobody's asking for a

camera in their phone.

Oh, then let's not do it.

You have to anticipating.

Yeah.

so I track a lot of

different trends in a lot

of different technologies

because part of what happens

and I also like to say that

opportunities created by

the intersection of trends.

So part of what happens is

there's this trend coming

along, and right now it

might not be affecting

your but if you're not

tracking it, you won't see

the possibility of when it

will affect your market.

AI potentially, yeah, Or

various other technologies

that we can think about.

How are those going to

impact your customers

even maybe three years,

five years down the line?

so I also have, courseware in

strategic product management.

Mm-hmm.

Because it's important, again,

not just to say what's the

incremental improvement we can

provide in 6, 12, 18 months?

But what's the

radical innovation and

transformational improvements?

We can look at, we can look

forward to down the line.

Mm-hmm.

Given that we understand

these trends, given that

we understand the customer

needs more than from a

feature function standpoint,

et cetera, read that

opportunity is where

trends intersect.

Intersect.

Yes.

That is so good.

Yes.

Okay.

I think we have our title.

Okay.

We evolved, let's say product

manager can provide that

transformational value to

the clients because they're

looking at the trends.

They're not just filling

orders, but they're looking

ahead, seeing where the

puck is going to be.

right.

Instead to help them be

there to meet it, their

clients be there to mean it.

Right.

Another thing I like to

say is we can't predict

the future, but we can

anticipate what might happen.

Mm-hmm.

So you can't always say,

yes, we know the puck's gonna

be there in three years.

Mm-hmm.

But we can say, here's

the possible places that

puck might be given.

Mm-hmm.

different trends

and, potential.

do we build that agility into

our value creation approach?

Mm-hmm.

How do we.

As the trends become clearer,

be able to adjust, et cetera.

I mean, there's a lot of meat.

Wow.

Okay.

In that conversation

right there,

That is very interesting.

you surprised me

with that one.

I didn't know that

was very interesting.

I love that.

And we are gonna talk

about your courseware.

as we wrap up, 'cause I

do wanna talk about what.

Offerings you have then.

But before we get there,

I want to talk about

the fact that this is

a very meta podcast.

You know, I'm a female founder

of an expertise based business

that I am hoping to grow,

so I can sell it someday.

You're also the female

founder of an expertise

based business.

So are you growing your

business to perhaps

sell it someday?

That would be awesome.

Mm-hmm.

I agree.

Yeah.

And, I'll tell you, meeting

you helped expand and solidify

my mindset around that.

And that's also one of my

areas of improvement, right?

Is how do I make sure The

work that I'm doing and

creating internally mm-hmm.

Is done in such a way

that it will have value

beyond my participation

in this business.

Mm-hmm.

Nice.

So, yes, you and I have

explored a couple of

things in that regards

and certainly I mentioned

that a little bit earlier.

Being able to license my

frameworks and methodologies,

being able to train

people in those things.

creating courseware that will.

Live on beyond my

business that will

have value to product

managers, hopefully some

long-term into the future.

Yeah.

Those are things that

are really important.

Yeah.

I mean, you're doing all

the right things, the things

that you're doing now to

scale your business and

having multiple ways of the

delivering your expertise.

Yes.

With one-on-one services, but

also through training other

consultants and providing

other, Educational services.

So you're doing all the

right things, so I have

no doubt you'll get there.

So do you have a plan for

your next chapter after you

sell your business, which

we know is gonna happen.

That's so interesting because,

That to me starts to sound

a little bit like retirement

and depends on how

you define retirement.

Yeah, exactly.

Exactly.

But I enjoy what I do so

much at this point maybe I

can do less of it and start

to do more of other things.

Right.

Maybe I'll spend more

time training people

and not, I don't know.

I just love what I'm doing

and I wanna do more of it, and

I wanna do it better, right?

I wanna increasingly

deliver value.

I wanna deliver increasing

value yes to my clients.

I just find this to be great

work and I really enjoy it

and I'm sure there'll be a

next chapter, but I don't know

when, and I'm not quite sure

what shape that will take.

Yeah, I'm with

you on that.

It's hard to imagine just not

working and then what, but

then when you have a skill

or a passion that you wanna

share, well, don't have to get

paid for, maybe you do still.

but Oh, absolutely.

There's, there's

other ways to continue

to provide that, right?

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Right.

I agree with you.

And I do some of that.

Mm-hmm.

Already.

So there's two organizations

I'm involved with.

Well, you're,

skipping to, am

I going too fast?

Yeah.

well, let's take

this part out then.

I, thought that was a perfect

segue, but we'll wait on that.

Well,

it is, the perfect segue,

but since we have a way

that we do things around

here, Alan Grace, so well,

we'll come back to this.

So, as you know, we believe

in creating a world, a

more equitable economy.

So in particular, I believe

that wealth in the hands of

women can change the world.

And so would you like

to share a person or an

organization that you admire

who is helping create a

more equitable economy?

okay.

So,

I am a little stunned

by the question, you

asked it a little bit

differently earlier.

So I'll talk about two

organizations that I'm

involved with and I'll

also say that I know a lot

of really awesome women,

yourself included, who are

doing great work I'm gonna

have to publish a list, Erin,

because the more that I think

about even in the moment,

one of the organizations I

contribute to, and we didn't

talk about this at all,

is Heifer International.

And the thing I love about

Heifer International is that

they provide, economic engines

to people they provide, yes.

Animals that then can be

leveraged, like, goats

for milk and then the

family sells the milk.

I mean, it is an incredible,

organization that provides

the opportunity to

leverage any donations

in an incredible way.

So I'd encourage people to

look at them for, donating

and they, work worldwide.

an organization that I've

been involved in for several

years is, Women in consulting.

we recently redefined the

organization as a 5 0 1 C

three, and the reason we did

that is because we wanted

to have more of a community,

a larger community focus.

One of the things women in

consulting is working on,

in addition to supporting

women like ourselves mm-hmm.

Who are already

participating in, let's

say the, professional

class, the economy.

Mm-hmm.

we wanna be able to reach

out to more women who maybe

aren't, hadn't thought about

consulting or contracting

as a possibility, and

give them pathways to that

new type of work and a

more economic security.

So we're working on programs.

That will enable us to reach

out more to the community

and be more effective in

helping people broaden

their support, their

participation in the economy.

I love that.

The other organization

is how women lead and,

That organization, to my

understanding, started

out with a mission of

getting more women to

serve on public boards.

And as we all know, there's

a lot of evidence that

shows that when women

are serving on boards,

companies are more effective

and successful and thus

people are more successful.

Mm-hmm.

And effective.

Mm-hmm.

So, the growth that it

provides individuals and

the growth that it provides

companies and employees.

Can be, substantive.

a few years ago also started

a program of effectively

advising and mentoring

women across the world.

And I'm actively involved with

a entrepreneur in Nigeria.

And, notes we can

provide detail on that.

Yes.

Who has a school

for women and girls?

To increase their STEM skills

and increase their opportunity

to participate in the local

and the broader economy.

That is fantastic.

Thank you for that.

Yes.

We will, create, have links

to all of these organizations

in the show notes.

So you mentioned the

courseware that you developed

to help educate PMs.

So tell us about it and

where people can find it.

So it's still in process.

I'm happy to offer

classes, more bespoke.

So I have four clients

created this course

where, and I customize it.

So one of the important things

when people are learning

is to also have examples

and exercises to work on.

So when I'm doing the

strategic product management

course inside a company,

I integrate examples

That are relevant to what

the company's doing today.

Mm-hmm.

So, they might bring in,

Hey, we're, working on

the business plan for this

particular new product

that we're gonna launch.

Okay.

That becomes the

foundation then, for

some of the exercises

that we do in the course.

Mm-hmm.

Whether it's sizing the market

or coming up with specific

pricing and packaging, or

understanding the investment

that's required to make this,

product launch successful.

The other thing I'm planning

is to do some public webinars.

which will focus on,

the financial skills

for product management.

How does alignment affect the

larger company and what's the

role of executives down to

individual contributors in

helping to ensure alignment

and acting as leaders in that

type of, context, et cetera.

So there's a lot going

on, and I'm happy to keep

people in the loop as

things further develop.

Well, great.

Well, first I'm going to ask

you about where people can

find you, but just so I'm

clear on the, target market,

your project, Product managers

or project managers, sorry,

product, product managers.

Is that for people who

are in-house and so you're

helping them uplevel those

skills as an in-house person

or as consultants or both?

Yes.

Yes.

Very good.

Absolutely.

Absolutely.

I mean, one of the

commitments I bring or

endeavor to bring to every.

Business and perhaps even

personal relationship I have

is that, I'll offer value.

Mm-hmm.

And so I have conversations

with people who are

considering being consultants.

I did a presentation for

an organization called

Women in Product on

Consulting as a career path.

So I've been involved with

a lot of women who are

looking at consulting and

how they can bring value

to clients, and certainly

I work quite actively

with product management

teams and executives

inside of the companies to

clients that I work with.

Fantastic.

Thank you for that.

I really think, delivering

value is, part of a.

belief system in a way, right?

Oh, absolutely.

And it's not just something

that I just say, okay,

today I'm delivering

value tomorrow I'm not.

That's right.

And most of us who are

founders of services

based businesses, I

mean, there's a reason.

That we did this right.

There's a reason we

started our own businesses.

'cause there was something

that we wanted to,

that was uniquely about

us that we wanted to

deliver to the world.

Right?

And so That is, that's right.

All right.

So Grace, where can

people find you?

If they wanna find out more

about the work that you do,

what you have planned, how can

they keep in contact with you?

I'm very easy to find

I'm the only Ellen Grace

Henson on LinkedIn.

Oh, really?

I don't have that.

Yeah.

H E N Ss o n.

The only Ellen Grace

Henson on LinkedIn.

And certainly you can find me

at E G H for Elon, e g h at.

M K T G M E C h.com.

That's marketing mec.com.

Mm-hmm.

And

Look at the Women in

Consulting website.

You'll find me there as well.

Absolutely.

The links for all that

information will be in

the show notes as well.

Thank you very much Hung

Grace for joining me today.

This has been a lot of

fun and very valuable.

I'm glad.

Thank you, Erin,

for the opportunity.