💵 Support the show on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/chainsawhistory

💻 Learn more and support the show on our website: http://www.chainsawhistory.com

Bonus Episode! Some listeners might be familiar with the book The Education of Little Tree by Forrest Carter. Others might know his novel The Rebel Outlaw Josey Wales or at least the film directed by and starring Clint Eastwood. During research for the George Wallace series, Jamie was shocked to discover that Forrest Carter was actually Asa Carter—the man behind the infamous "Segregation Forever" speech for the Alabama governor. Asa Carter was a violent racist who created a militant faction of the Ku Klux Klan and sent thugs to attack a Nat King Cole concert. Later, he moved to Texas, changed his name, and softened his image if not his actual beliefs. He lied about Cherokee ancestry and fabricated most of the details in The Education of Little Tree. "Forrest" Carter tried to hide from his past, but before he could fully enjoy his success, he died after a fist fight with his own son.

Consider a donation to the Cherokee Nation. And if you are struggling, please reach out to someone you trust or dial 988 to reach the Suicide & Crisis Lifeline.

I blame the the spooky zoom lady hmm no well I mean it's probably my fault my

phone has not worked real well or correctly since I dropped it in the

toilet over Christmas well that'll cause some problems yeah so mmm now things

just don't everything works and it doesn't seem like there's anything wrong

but at the same time it just doesn't work as well as it used to it's very odd

although kudos for my not waterproof phone still working yeah pretty much at

all in the old in the old days dropping the toilet was at the instant death

sentence yep that was now they waterproof shit insta death now you can

take your phone for your bathtub selfies nice well everyone thank Christ welcome

to Chainsaw History this is the show where my sister and I throw our middle

fingers at beloved figures in history and you can find us and support what we

do by visiting chainsawhistory.com I'm your host Jamie Chambers and this is my

sister Bambi and we are a comedy history podcast I am NOT a historian just a guy

with a potty mouth and a library card I'm here for the ride at least today I

am and I have the world's most annoying dogs stop it he is just making noise

because he can in this big echoey room where the mics will 100% pick it all up

so yeah if you could hear I could thunk every once in a while if you hear weird

noises or little a cartoon spring noise that's because the dog is just fucking

around in the background or jumping into my lap all right so let's jump into it

now today's subject was a footnote in a previous episode he was a guy we

mentioned briefly and then completely forgot about or at least you might have

I ended up he ended up becoming a brain worm that just burrowed and I couldn't

let it go until I learned more about him and then I did all that research so I

kind of had to make an episode about it to justify reading way too much I I feel

that actually because I have I too have that and you get scripts now yeah I'm

looking forward to it and that is a hint of future stuff for people who do back

at some patreon now our subject today was an accomplished author who conquered

more than one style and back in the 80s when we were little kids in grade school

his most famous book was really kind of pushed into classrooms because it was a

very like especially for the 80s in this era of Reagan patriotism it was very

kind of American story that made you feel good and even kind of soften like

even though it acknowledged problems between white people and Native

Americans it still kind of made it go down with a spoonful of sugar because

it's still this very sweet story very dances with wolves like an issue the

values of different cultures well dances with wolves was a lot more directly

critical of America and way more pro the Native American side where as the book

we're about to talk about a little bit different and since we've been through

this all before it's ridiculous to ask you but um so I already know you did not

read the book the education of little tree no I did however sleep through the

movie a couple times yeah I mean I don't think I watched it who among us it did

not instantly lay their head down the moment the VCR cart came into the

classroom and the teacher went out yeah I'm telling you I think there was it was

and I'm remembering it now vividly because we talked about it earlier but

yeah I was in summer school and they were like we're gonna make you watch

this long boring ass movie and then because it's summer school I'm gonna

make you take a quiz ha ha ha well if it makes you feel any better my really

expensive college education my horrendously expensive college education

that I'm still paying off to this day I had a 400 level World War II history

class taught by a professor who just put on videos from the History Channel and

then went back to his office to work on his next book he would this is a guy who

was like a renowned expert on the Pacific theater of World War II and I

was really looking forward to hearing his lectures he didn't give a goddamn

one nice and instead we watch History Channel and then the students gave

presentations so he had to take this we taught the class along with the fucking

History Channel before it became all ancient aliens and stuff back when it

taught actual history cuz I miss the History Channel when it just showed

random like documentaries yeah and we just instantly did great we just

instantly revealed that we're in our 40s history channel has not been that in a

really long time that's fine so in 1976 the education of little tree was

published as a nonfiction memoir by Forrest Carter who was previously known

for Westerns such as the outlaw Josie Wales a movie our dad liked quite a bit

that was because yeah like I said the he wrote the book that was made into the

movie the outlaw Josie Wales directed by and starring Clint Eastwood it's the

autobiography of a man looking back in his early life when his parents died in

the late 1920s and he went to live with his Cherokee grandparents in the

Appalachian Mountains so the young boy learns to love and appreciate his

grandparents in the in the native ways of life and appreciation of nature and

so he's getting all this like this that's the education of little tree the

other side of the education of little tree is where he is forced into a

residential school which for it's terrible for listeners who don't know

yeah those are places where like the United States and Canada liked to it was

an attempt at ethnic cleansing to kind of culturally whitewash Native

Americans by taking their children and raising them in white society you know

like most of the time they would even force the children to take different

names we just call it public school but at least they're not murdered there yeah

that's everybody whereas this case it was specifically Native American children

and it was there that was the end goal and the other nightmare is that every

once in a while we archaeologists discover mass graves no they they were

horrific yeah look into that talk about another rabbit hole you can go down to

if you want to give yourself nightmares the good news is little tree however was

rescued by an uncle who snatched him out of that place and brought him back to

his grandparents where he stayed with him a few more years until you know they

were already old and they they passed away but the lessons that they had taught

him see him through to adulthood so it's a very American very heartwarming tale

and actually is a bit critical of the American government white culture and

Christianity there's a whole kind of bit about how they attended church but has

serious problem with what people did in the name of Jesus Christ you know that's

that's completely fair because I too have a problem with with a lot with a

whole lot who by the way was a cool dude he was a very chill and would not have

approved of any of these atrocities more people should actually just listen to

the stuff he said I mean even though his his like even if you don't but dudes was

a bunch of dicks even if you don't believe if you specifically go by what

Jesus said the New Testament yeah it's all fine so the educational little tree

went on to much success even after the death of its author come in waves and

even hit number one in the nonfiction section of the New York Times Book

Review in 91 thanks to the power of Oprah Winfrey or next president the

United States who knows oh my god I would actually back that isn't that

scared that was talked about a while back so but she shot it down thankfully

but it's like no I said I wanted to be super rich and famous and still

incredibly powerful and probably more powerful this way she doesn't know her

power well I know if she and then even but even if Oprah Winfrey can take a

step back and be like god no I don't need to be president then at least good

for you up for one brief you still have something on Donald Trump

all claps do I mean I saw the power of Oprah when I was in college and worked

at the mall bookstore every time Oprah mentioned a book or had it on her book

club instantly it was just gone we had a little stand where we just put all of

the Oprah recommended shit and it would just all the wine moms would pour in and

grab it every week and you know so absolutely so you know when I was 16

this book hit the New York Times number one just because of Oprah's

recommendation you know we're talking probably didn't know about any of the

stuff other than this bullshit oh we're gonna go into it let's do it let's do it

so I was talking about how he actually died just a few years after the

education of little tree was published and the death of Forrest Carter has a

few things in common with the passing of our own dad he died of his first and

only heart attack and he had two funerals which for anyone who has not

had to attend their parents funeral twice not highly recommended don't do

that not my my favorite time ever that's a horrible story we will save for

another day but but here's the story of Forest Carter's two funerals he passed

away in 1979 he was only in his early 50s so he died young only a few years

after his most successful and beloved work he was well liked in Abilene Texas

where he lived at the time and the whole town mourned his unexpected passing his

body was returned to his original home in Alabama and the family welcomed a

crowd of admirers and friends from the publishing world in New York and

entertainment figures from Southern California who joined his wife and

children at a graveside service then a few hours later the family returned to

the cemetery for a second smaller and entirely private service that matched

the name on the headstone that eventually was placed at his grave that

puzzled some people because the friends back at Texas the fans of his books were

all deeply confused because the name on the grave was one they'd never heard

before Asa Earl Carter so here's the twist you're familiar with at least one

thing Carter wrote back in 1962 he wrote the inaugural address for the incoming

governor of Alabama and you might remember these lines delivered to a

roaring applause today I have stood where once Jefferson Davis stood and

took an oath to our people it is very appropriate that from this cradle of the

Confederacy this very heart of the great Anglo-Saxon Southland that today we

sound the drum for freedom as have our generation before us done time and

again down through history let us rise to the call of freedom loving blood that

is in us and send our answer to the tyranny that clanks its chains upon the

south in the name of the greatest people that have ever tried this earth I draw

the line in the dust and toss the gauntlet before the feet of tyranny and

I say segregation now segregation tomorrow and segregation forever

Chris that was written by the same guy who wrote the education of Little Tree

you see there was no Forrest Carter there was no Little Tree in fact Asa

Carter was just as white as you and me and his Cherokee heritage was complete

horseshit he was in fact a Ku Klux Klan organizer and rabid defender of

segregation he was a right-wing radio personality decades before Rush Limbaugh

and he was a politician so racist that George Wallace disassociated himself

with him well you know he apparently I mean this guy has apparently

disassociated with himself oh there's that more than once so when his early

ventures failed he moved to Texas and reinvented himself as a kindly cowboy

writer of Native American ancestry Forrest Little Tree Carter so a look at

his life is a testament to just how much bullshit people are likely to swallow if

they tell a good story and we're about to get into it but first let's

acknowledge our sources now I did a lot of personal research on this so I like

pulled up dozens of newspaper articles I actually was using still using those

ancestry.com tools to look up records on people I looked up military service

records book reviews I was like digging I did a lot more personal research

rather than just reading books this time but I did watch a good documentary

called the reconstruction of Asa Carter which is publicly available on YouTube

so you can just search for that title and you pop right up I also got more

information on Carter's early life in the book titled but for Birmingham the

local and national movements in the civil rights struggle by Glenn T. Eskew

and that's a very academic book like getting into the weeds like you have to

be more of a history nerd to truly appreciate that one because it's heavily

sourced less interesting writing but more like this is the shit that happened

these are the people involved I mean I still found it fascinating but it's

definitely not for the everyday casual reader so I'll put these and other

sources in the show notes that you can find on chainsawhistory.com so you

ready to come back to mid 20th century Alabama? No. Where our people are from?

Not particularly, but here we are. You're going to hate me so much.

Every time I think I get out of Alabama I just get dragged right back in.

Every time I think I'm out they pull me back in. I'm a terrible brother.

Alright Asa Earl Carter entered the world on September 4th 1925 in Oxford

Alabama which is near Anniston kind of central-ish northeast-ish Alabama and he

was the second of four children which instantly contradicts his story about

being an only child and also where he claimed to also be an orphan only child

both his parents outlived him or I know I think his father died just a couple

years before him his mother outlived him like 20 years and died she lived nearly

as long as Betty White. Betty White who lived almost 100.

I just watched completely off-topic but on the her like team that she worked

with posted the video she'd pre-recorded for her hundredth birthday to to thank

everyone and raise money for her animal charities I was just like oh and then all

those magazines that came out that that had already been printed for celebrating

her hundredth birthday is like oh thanks guys yeah no I feel like 2021 had to get

one last little knife twist in. We're already rushing into celebrity death in

2022 you know well let me tell you something it's like remember in 2016

when like celebrity deaths were like really sad and they meant a lot to us

such good times now we're like making meatloaf memes two hours after the guy

died that's just where we are it's how we deal with our pain all right so back

to Asa Carter we don't know a lot about his early life but we can definitely say

he did not move to the Tennessee mountains to learn the ways of the

Cherokee he actually grew up on a dairy farm probably milking cows and doing

other menial labor shoveling manure you know cow farm stuff and he graduated

from Calvin County High School in 1943 according to Dan Carter no relation of

the New York Times quote the senior class prophet predicted he would return

to Calhoun County as a famous movie star handsome energetic ambitious always the

actor his classmates had known that Asa Carter would do whatever he had to

escape this sleepy little town of Oxford well who knew that not an actor but a

writer eventually and you know before that radio personality so you know they

were at least warm after school he immediately entered the United States

Navy being as how there was a whole World War two happening I found his name

on the Navy muster rolls and saw the served in the Pacific and was involved

in the Battle of Lake Gulf which was like the largest naval battle in the

whole war and the invasion of Okinawa but otherwise his military career seems

unremarkable no no like he was just served out his term wasn't you know

sorry discharge he'd like many others he just served period millions of other

people did the same thing he survived World War two yeah after the war he

reunited with his high school sweetheart I found the marriage license online for

Asa Carter to India Walker on February 22nd 1947 so he was 21 years old and

listed his occupation as the bottling business and both claimed to be

residents of Tallahassee Florida as far as I know that it actually moved to

Florida till later so I don't know what that was about I will say this about it

there are slightly less rumors about him cheating on his wife than George Wallace

or the other kind of figures from this point in history so I guess that's

something they didn't remain married for his entire life even though they did

have a period of separation at least one I did get the idea there was a certain

difficulties in their marriage that weren't necessarily related to cheating

well you know everyone has difficulties in their marriage and sometimes it

doesn't have anything related to cheating and apparently this guy's an

asshole but he didn't kill her so you know she outlived him by quite a lot

she didn't murder him like George Wallace did Lurleen for Lurleen that was

one of the biggest surprises I've ever gotten when I was researching was just

that horror show um so when they were newlyweds Asa used the GI Bill to study

journalism for a year at the University of Colorado

boning up on those writing skills that would serve him well for the rest of his

life and then at Denver he got a job as a radio announcer and he found he really

enjoyed being behind a microphone hello listeners and he enjoyed having an

audience to listen to his ideas he bounced around my job he bounced around

from several radio jobs before returning to Birmingham in 1953 and landing a job

at am 850 W I LD it was wild y'all and it was during this time he established

his first new identity ace Carter a guy who was too racist for 1950s Alabama oh

my god ace Carter would be a great name for a porn star well if you saw pictures

and stuff about that well no I don't feel good about any of it I'm just

saying from a girl whose name is Bambi I can I can spot it now the comparisons

between Asa Carter and George Wallace are natural especially since the two

worked together for a little while but my study of both men gives me the

impression that George Wallace as we talked about this in his episode I don't

think he ever really held racial hatred like deep in his heart he just used it

for political and advantage it was an expedient and whatever racism he did had

he was happy to hide it in order to like win votes and just go the way the wind

was blowing is that less gross I don't know that's the question ask yourself at

the end of this story because Carter seems like a true believer like Wallace

he did the thing like you know his big announcement that he was done being a

racist was when he crowned that that young black woman beauty queen he kissed

her on the cheek and like put his arm around her and made it clear he was not

at all revolted by this beautiful you know young woman see I can't be racist

and that's not how anything works no so listen to the highlights of Asa Carter's

early career and see if you agree so here he is racist personality on radio

WILD that first went on the air in 1953 and in less than a year he was sponsored

by a group called ASRA and his program was carried by at least 20 radio

stations all over Alabama and if you google ASRA today you'll likely find the

American Society of Regional Anesthesia but back in the day it was something

else the American States Rights Association and I can see you twitch I

know well anytime anyone says the word state rights there's nothing good that

comes after that always ask the question states rights to do what exactly and

it's usually horrible yeah like you know they want to have the state right to

lower the age of consent or suppress certain groups of people from you know

voting yeah no none of it's good it's it's all regressive taxes you know just

shitty stuff it starts bad and goes downhill so and as you might have

guessed ASRA was an anti integration organization founded in the 1950s to

combat groups in Birmingham attempting to weaken segregation laws so some 600

people attended their very first meeting and they claimed to have over 5,000

members on their mailing list they not only sponsored the ace Carter show they

hired him to handle as was public relations so in 1955 the group published

a lovely little book titled the race problem from the standpoint of one who

is concerned about the evils of miscegenation authored by racist and

dumb biologist WC George now for any of you listeners out there who haven't

heard the word and miscegenation is a fancy word for a mixed race relationship

and sometimes you learn something new every day and sometimes that something

sucks yeah my vocabulary has been destroyed by reading about horrible

people but I don't expect that's how I want to instantly forget this word good

people shouldn't know that work unless they've gone down the same corners that

others have or have sadly had racism affect them so anywho Asra and ace

Carter didn't limit their hate only to African Americans both were also

intensely and vocally anti-semitic and we're mixed it all together with the

ongoing red scare quoting from Dane Carter again this time from a different

book called rewriting the south quote Carter warned his listeners that the

Birmingham chapter of the National Conference of Christians and Jews was a

tool of the Communist Party manipulated by Jews who had duped ignorant Christians

into supporting their secret plan to dilute the racial purity of the south

unquote I have no words for how much I hated that I'm shocked by how much I

hate it and I expected to quoting again from the same book they quote believe

that the American Christian civilization was on the ropes because of the

machinations of the Christ killer Jews New York Jews put up the funds and for

the Russian Revolution and in the years since 1918 they have joined hands with

the Communists and refined their plans to undermine white Christian civilization

their tools were many but their main weapon was the promotion of integration

unquote see you might remember that back in the very early 20th century there was

a lovely fake document published in Russia called the protocols of the

elders of Zion I do I know this horrifically fucking you know and I'm

really surprised about how often it comes up well it is the it is the great

granddaddy of all modern conspiracy conspiracy theories plus fucking just

racism so to give the listener just a quick idea of this and how it's spilled

into what we're talking about now it's this idea that that Jewish bankers have

used their money accumulated from all over the world and how basically have a

secret society what we you know now they'd be the billionaire secret Jewish

billionaires controlling the world and manipulating governments and doing

everything in order to create the rise of of communism and to wipe out you know

all world governments and destroy capitalism so every time you hear like

George Soros is funding Black Lives Matter that's literally a direct

descendant of this horrible conspiracy theory

yeah but you know and here's the thing is there a truth that there are a lot of

rich Jewish bankers yes but there is a historical reason for this because in

medieval Europe Christians weren't allowed to charge interest when they

loan people money it was a literally considered a sin so the Jewish

communities who did not have that particular rule in their religion did so

they by de facto became the banking services but then also were hated for

doing the thing that was needed when people to loan people money and provide

credit for businesses and shit like yeah so they made money off of this this

thing doesn't need that they filled but then you know got nothing but racism and

hatred and a Holocaust so getting back to this so right now they're said the

current version of this in our story is the idea that these that these secret

cabal of rich Jewish people were trying to take down Christian civilization and

one of the ways you're gonna do it is by by letting white and black society mix

and and creating just a mongrel race you know the the pure superiority of the

Aryans wiped out forever by mixing with Africans so it's just it's just gross

and and awful and it's like it mixes multiple levels of racism all together

and you know and just that usual you know capitalist you know fear of

anything related to socialism or communism and hey look over there

tactics mm-hmm don't look at the bullshit we're up to however even for

1950s Alabama this was a lot see the Holocaust was a very recent memory in

the 1950s and a lot of Alabamians were kind of uncomfortable with all this

anti-semitism even if they were totally fine with the rants against communism

and people of color they're like wait a second these people were literally

almost wiped off six million people were killed just in the decade before so

that's like that was a bridge too far for most for even like mainstream

segregationists who weren't like hateful but there were just like the status quo

is just fine because I'm doing fine and I don't have to pay much attention to

people living on the crappy side of town consequently ace went to war on public

radio with an organization called the National Conference for Christians and

Jews this was a multi-faith organization that sprung up after World War two that

was the idea was to promote peace and tolerance and say you know it's fine for

Catholics Protestants and Jews to all get along and not only that and to try

to overcome harmful stereotypes about all of the above so this is even though

so on one hand it's a very nice thing like hey let's it's unity we don't have

to hate each other for our religious differences so that's a good thing even

though once again this is that's all it is this has no racial component it does

not open itself to other religions beyond the three we just mentioned and

but even still fuck these guys says Asa Carter that's we cannot have this mixing

with the Jews so the NCCJ promoted an unofficial event that was celebrated for

decades and it's kind of fallen out in our lifetime it was called known as

National Brotherhood Week and even though it was only about religious

tolerance if you were a Catholic Protestant or Jew that was too much for

him this was all part of the commie plot to destroy America you can't have people

getting along with with other people with the Jews and it's always in quotes

with the capital you know so the president of the Alabama chapter of the

NCCJ a dude named Paul head led community pushback that got the ace

carter show canceled in 1955 so after about two and a half years on the air

this faith interfaith group was able to get him canceled because like I said

mainstream Alabama was like a little much and so but however if you're ace

Carter if you're already paranoid about a Jewish conspiracy controlling the world

a pro-Jewish organization getting you fired doesn't help your worldview you

know some people could just call it cause and effect yeah yeah taking a

simple step back and having common sense makes this all make sense but to him

this is just proof that the Jews were out to get him oh god it's just culture

wars yeah so he only got worse after he lost his wider audience because now he's

less mainstream so he's he can really now he's now he's just focused in on

QAnon yeah he can speak to a very specific crowd it's exactly the kind of

people who would jump on board with QAnon all these decades later now it

where was I yeah he only got worse and it made mainstream segregationist such

as the Alabama Citizens Council to push him aside now every southern state at

the time had one of these state citizens councils and in case you didn't know

what those were they were pro segregation they were they might as

well be called the white citizens council these were just these were you

know influencing local government and trying to influence elections and

policies and even local businesses to make them all white friendly and keep

things the way these particular people wanted them and even they were like yeah

we're cool with the anti integration stuff but we do not want this anti

semitic asshole in our group that he's too racist for us so in 1956 a very busy

year for our boy he founded his own called the North Alabama Citizens

Council so it was a safe space for hate against both black and Jewish Americans

oh oh good and it's so it's splintered the membership between the moderate and

extreme racists in the area so like the kind of more mainstream people they had

their own place to hang out yeah we had your your your mainstream racist club

and then you had this super racist club well you know they didn't have the

internet so they couldn't just hate people anonymously online you just

couldn't just go to 4chan just go to 4chan or 8chan or whatever chant it is

now and and get your porn and hate not even just porn but like no no I've never

been there don't want to be there I know too much about it it makes my brain

hurt yeah don't go so not only so he founded the super racist club but that

wasn't quite enough so he started his own chapter of the KKK he dressed them

in gray robes you know like a rebel soldiers uniform and called them the

Ku Klux Klan of the Confederacy so in the soldier the reference wasn't just

for show the idea was this was going to be a real like paramilitary group that

was gonna do some shit oh so they weren't just like people hanging out in

bedsheets sharing their hate they actually not just they wanted to

actually be terrorists 100% that was the goal from the beginning so here are a

few examples even though Carter wasn't directly involved but he's literally the

founder and leader so he's responsible in my opinion for all of this in April

of 1956 members of the gray clan rushed the stage of a Nat King Cole concert and

attacked the performer during his third song of the evening they attack Nat

they attack Nat King Cole fuck those guys fuck those guys so hard now it was

not just because Cole was black but ace Carter and his cronies believed that

rock and other kinds of popular music were part of this communist plot to

encourage race mixing because once again you know rock and roll was stolen from

black culture and even in it but at the same time anybody who was cutting-edge

would go to to see some of these black performers and their venues and it was

one of the earliest places where especially young people would be mixed

race because they were all just enjoying the music yeah and Nat King Cole was

part of a big touring production wasn't just him he was part of this huge tour

going on at the time so this is all part of the commie plot for race mixing as

described in the organization of American historians magazine in history

a really obnoxious title you shouldn't have historians in history in the same

title I object to this quote Cole was midway through his third song of the

evening the romantic ballad little girl three of the men vaulted the footlights

and one Kenneth Adams grabbed the startled singer who was hit in the face

by a falling microphone and wrestled Cole over his piano stool onto the

floor unquote yeah so God should they jump over the lights people don't know

what's going on one is grabs Nat King Cole takes him down the floor so beating

the shit out of him fucking terrible continuing quote plainclothes

policeman alerted to the possibility of trouble at the concert rushed to rescue

the singer only to clash with uniformed cops who thought they were a second

wave of attack so the cops are beating the shit out of each other because they

don't know who they are because they wanted to take down hard rock and roll

or nagging well so no then this case the cops were all trying to protect him

he just though uniformed cops didn't know that undercover the complain

clothes guys were there so they both just are beating the shit out of each

other back to the quote as the curtain fell and Cole was rescued the Ted Heath

Orchestra a British band touring with Cole stayed at its post and launched

into God Save the Queen that's hilarious but they should have yeah

because this is before the Vinny Hill music that would have been so great yeah

I mean if you look at that scene played in your head

Vinny Hill music is it's a real shame that nobody was doing a live like you

know wasn't didn't have a movie camera there to record there are some pictures

of the events and some of the dudes after the arrests now the guy mentioned

earlier Kenneth Adams the one who actually was swinging at Nat King Cole

this guy is suspected of both burning a bus carrying freedom riders which if

you remember from the George Wallace episode they were like a protest group

that would ride mixed-race go to different cities for protests and stuff

like that and he was also suspected of the murder of a man named Willie

Brewster don't worry Nat King Cole was fine though well yeah I mean Nat King

Cole has been dead for ages and they still dig him up every once in a while

to sing with him they'll just dig up old Nat King Cole track it was great

actually well like I really just want to do it I listen to this song little girl

maybe I'll put up maybe that's what we'll ride out on at the end of the

episode because why not okay well I mean which by the way the only one who should

be able to do that is his daughter Natalie and that is it everyone else

should just leave him alone let him be gone you can't do a duet with you it's

no longer his choice you're just raving his memory but yeah that's a little girl

that also showed off what a badass he was in the piano he was like standing up

and playing ways I never could at my best um another horrific crime committed

by the KKK of the Confederacy was the abduction and mutilation of a man named

Edward Aaron develop he was a developmentally disabled black man which

makes it even worse fucking hate it so it was said that the original plan was

to quote pick up a Negro to scare the hell out of unquote which was bad enough

but it went much farther than fear quoting Glen Eskew quote they asked Aaron

if he wanted to die or lose his genitals to which the African American responded

neither but then chose emasculation although Aaron informed his captors he

did not belong to the civil rights movement the Klansmen told him to tell

Negro leaders that the same thing would happen to them if they attempted to

enrolled the Negro children in white schools the rogue sextet then forced him

to strip from below the waist and lie on the dirt floor unquote and it only gets

worse so these were six these were six members and then one of them a piece of

shit named Bart Floyd used a razor to remove Aaron's genitals they then poured

turpentine on his wounds as an intended torture but it possibly saved his life

because it slowed down the bleeding an interview after the fact Aaron stated I

don't think they're human yeah me neither these are fucking monsters

fortunately the victim was discovered by police and taken to the hospital before

he bled to death one of the few times you can be grateful for Alabama cops at

this time but they did they found this guy you know bleeding and screaming and

crying and got him to the hospital and I watched an interview he gave to local

news where he he asked to be filmed from behind because he was a shanty been made

a eunuch by these people and he was just like a guy in his 30s just maybe a

little slow kind of on you know the Forrest Gump end of the of things so

it's it's fucked up yeah I mean that's horrific I mean and even if he wasn't

mentally challenged that's so fucking horrific there's nothing there's no good

version of that's just like you know that's the whipped cream of the of the

atrocity Sunday but don't worry there's a little there's some sprinkles on top

this is really gonna piss you off oh goody is there a cherry too yeah as a

footnote so two of the men decided to cooperate with prosecutors and turn

state's evidence so they get reduced sentences there's six guys two of them

two of them rat out the other four and so they get charged would they get

sentenced to only five years for their guilty pleas the other four were

convicted and sentenced to 20 years apiece in state prison Ray then George

Wallace became governor of Alabama and he pardoned those four but left the two

who cooperated with the state right where they were fuck

George Wallace so much every time we think we've heard the last shitty thing

he did there's always more no there's there's a well just awfulness there I'm

sure that even in future episodes or you don't we're nowhere near Alabama he's

just gonna pop back up again we go fucking bad it's like we want to act

like this is such ancient history and it's like my parents remember yeah this

shit well both of our parents were alive this is all going on this is not yeah

this was 1956 all right so yeah George Wallace sucks go listen to our three

part epic if you really want to find out how much now next year the gray KKK sent

a mob to beat civil rights leader Fred shuttleworth whose wife was stabbed so

that's how shitty these people were they not only went to go after this dude they

literally stabbed his wife in the hip and one of those attackers went on to be

involved in the bombing of the 16th Street Baptist Church that we talked

about where those four little girls were killed so these are literally the worst

people are don't like it these are the worst of the worst like literal fucking

terrorists he likely organized the mob stoning of a woman named authoring Lucy

who was the very first african-american student to attend the University of

Alabama so like this was um so this was before the in for the federally enforced

this was one young woman who was actually I think she was even I think

she's going to grad school at this point so this woman already had a degree she

was trying to get in she was able to get him thanks to the sponsorship of certain

people on the faculty and and so the gray KKK literally organized a mob where

they had like somewhere close to a thousand people throwing rocks at the

car as this Dean tries to shuttle this poor woman around campus in between

classes to to protect her there was more it was during this quite busy year he

co-founded a racist broadsheet titled the Southerner to keep the message of

hate strong it pushed pseudoscientific trash to justify a discrimination and

segregation mostly recycling old material so you're just taking articles

and stuff he'd already written for his radio program and just rehashing it out

into this like little tabloid newspaper he was publishing of the racist rag

caution against internationalism with the same terrified anger that Alex Jones

uses when talking about globalists I was about to say I mean it's just the same

thing and once again anytime you hear globalists or internationalism that's

all code words for the Jews who secretly control the shadow world government that

these people believe in well I mean but these are also people that don't believe

and you know so I don't even have enough words to articulate how much I think

these people suck it's it's really sad it's very frustrating so then ace Carter

ran for a local police commissioner and lost yay now also once again still 1956

this is his this is a really big year he traveled to Clinton Tennessee to oppose

the integration of a local high school there was no violence or issues inside

the school everything actually went pretty smooth but Carter and his folks

drove around in a car unironically flying both the Confederate and

American flags and the letters KKK were emblazoned on the doors they were

honking their horns and screaming at the top of their lungs and they distributed

protest signs and encouraged people to attend anti-integration rallies in the

evening here is a quote from one of aces speeches quote in the south we have 98%

anglo-saxon race not counting the n-word these are responsible people who erect

free governments and who have stood up and told the n-word that you must

cooperate that you must conduct yourself from a separate station but the

communist says one world government one world economy and one world race well I

mean we all live here so I mean I'm not necessarily for I think we could always

be cool but you'll see again the same thread that will Wallace of tying of

tying the idea of letting black people use the same water fountain is

communism it's it's all you know it's so sad because it just makes me flash to

now and it's all the same fucking rhetoric yeah it's just no that

different they just changed the terminology and tried to cloak the

racism behind a couple more layers it's yet to peel them back to actually find

it but that's what we're here for it's always there so in 1957 things got even

crazier and almost sent ace to prison now a patrol officer in Birmingham was

checking out lights in a closed restaurant where the gray KK was holding

a meeting that evening in the theater next door things got quite interesting

from an interview with Dan Carter quote there were rumors that Carter was

stealing from the coffers and one of the members demanded to have an independent

accounting of the funds and although it's a little unclear as to how it

happened apparently Carter pulled out his long barrel 44 and began shooting

quote so literally these guys are saying so it's like ace we think you're

you're skimming from the till there buddy can we just have somebody look and

just double-check the books his immediate reaction is to pull his

pistol out and start shooting these guys and that could have been the end of him

right here and there like like if he'd have killed somebody that probably would

have been it but luckily for unluckily probably probably unluckily considering

they were talking about oh I don't think anybody would miss these stains um so ace

was arrested jailed and prosecuted but ultimately the Jefferson County District

Attorney wimped out and dropped the charges rather than risk an incident

with white nationalists they're like we don't want the kind of heat this might

bring so they let him go and in 1958 the very next year he quit his own clan

group after dodging those legal troubles and ran for lieutenant governor of

Alabama and lost badly now at this point he was completely outside acceptable

social circles and his reputation was trash he was thought of as the guy who

shot at racists for not being racist enough well it wasn't just his

reputation that was trash this man is pure garbage he retreated back to his

family home in Northeast Alabama and took menial jobs for a few years so he

got knocked back so hard by his bullshit that he was basically back to milking

cows but you can't keep a good racist down because someone appeared on the

political stage to inspire Asa to make his comeback someone who could inspire

the heart of a diehard Alabama segregationist Bambi it's your hero and

mine friend of the pod George Corley Wallace I don't want him to be a friend

of mine that's that's more like just having herpes you don't want it it's

just not going away well remember sadly Wallace is directly

connected you think it you think you're cool you've been in remission for a

while and all of a sudden you have a George Wallace flare up and it's just

yeah well remember on the Kevin Bacon scale we are only two degrees from

George Wallace thanks to our lovely family history so we might as well at

least understand what it all means so inspired by Wallace's message which

once again if you haven't heard our three-part series I talked about it at

a great length and mental damage to my poor sister um Asa wrote up several

sample speeches and just walked right up to the fighting little judge outside of

the courthouse and just handed them over saying I wrote you some speeches you

should check them out and the rumor has it that Wallace did read through them

and used one that very night and a disgusting partnership was born Asa

wrote speeches for both George and Lurleen Wallace during the respective

governor's races and as we mentioned up top he wrote the infamous segregation

forever inaugural address I hate it it's just not good now as a writer I was kind of

interested in just like what his process was so quoting Dan Carter once more

quote after locking himself alone in his room he would take his typewriter a

couple of cartons of cigarettes and maybe a little whiskey as well he would

get sort of wound up he would get on this kind of riding high unquote so

he'd stay up drinking whiskey and chain-smoking Pall Mall's and get all

angry and sweaty and poured his insecure white frustrations onto the page okay I

will keep that in mind when I don't do the sweaty although I have to say

there's so much of my research that just makes me mad it does make me

perpetually angry so I at least get that part of the writing if you do the right

just the right amount of drinking and smoking it really can be the right zone

to write it I can tell you this from experience so Wallace spoke the words

and we kind of know how that story turned out Wallace one and was sworn in

on a cold January morning 59 years ago and Asa kept up the good-paying steady

job for years with only one problem George Wallace never publicly admitted

to working with Carter and in fact denied it for the entirety of his life

it was brought up even like you know last years of his life and he's that

tracks now because he was for all of the bullshit about it being reformed he

continued to lie to whitewash his past up until his death so fuck George Wallace

we only know about Carter's involvement because multiple Wallace staff opened up

over the years and saying like canaries the writer got all his money in cash

payments under the table so people donating to the Wallace campaign did not

know they were directly paying ace the ace Carter to write this shit

terrorist fucking monster yeah who sent goons after Nat King Cole but as Wallace

shifted gears for his first run for president in 1968 he felt that Asa

Carter was a liability so the speech writer don't say yeah suddenly like when

when he's ready to to be more mainstream for the national stage this guy is like

an anchor around his neck he needs to go so the speech writer was quietly cut

loose everyone was told to stop returning aces calls and I'm sure you

can imagine that our hero took this in stride and resolved to change his ways

and become a better person correct I'm sorry to report that the

grapes were quite sour ace Carter was pissed feeling he alone represented the

true calling of white supremacy and he ran for governor of Alabama against

Wallace in 1970 okay so the one time Wallace is a better option question

what's hard to say because remember that was the the one the campaign that was

deemed the most racist governor's campaign in the history of America and

yet and this will tell you something because even still a sick ace Carter ran

on a more racist platform and lost by a lot so George Wallace found the sweet

spot of racism to appeal to the Alabama the the white actively kill them we just

don't want to be in the same public spaces yeah but let's like so this is

1970 so we're at the very end of that being okay even in in Alabama out of the

five candidates on the Democratic side ace finished dead last with only 1.5

1% of the vote as Wallace squeaked out a victory against Albert Brewer in a

television interview ace said this of his feelings about George Wallace quote

I wouldn't say I turned against George he left the cause so he left me when he

did he accepted integration in schools and of course we can't have that

so Wallace is a traitor because he he ultimately folded on the integration

issue he didn't want to go to jail and he wanted to win but more importantly to

Wallace he wanted to be president of the United States real real sad that that

didn't work out for him then he got shot instead so yeah cuz which is worse yeah

him or Nixon and when you really look at all the fucking horrific things that are

happening to this day because of fucking stupid ass Richard Nixon I don't know

and yet yet he also created the EPA I hate literally everything although I

have to say this asshole would have never been able to do this now like the

internet remembers oh yeah and he already starts to suffer from a world

that's increasingly more connected and and has a mass media so a night at the

1971 Wallace inauguration black students marched in a celebratory parade which

was a sign of the changing times meanwhile ace Carter and a group of

supporters protested holding up signs that said things including Wallace is a

bigot and white children are being destroyed in the schools a friend

reported that ace cried once out of sight lamenting that Wallace had sold

out and perhaps realizing that regardless of how he felt the war to

preserve segregation was officially over because Wallace literally had like the

marching band had black students you know cheering for Wallace that's I mean

what are you gonna do I mean it honestly is a good thing there was a sign so I'm

not gonna bitch about that but just just the the optics are still a little fucked

up so this this thing with the word head as little his little assholes with the

signs and go off and cries in a corner that was the last public appearance of

ace Carter hooray so this is the point realizes I got this ain't working

anymore it's time to reinvent myself so ace of Carter sold it weirdest way

ever well yeah we're about to get into that part so ace of Carter sold his farm

and moved his family to Sweetwater Texas Texas and spent some time in 1973 in

st. George's Island in Florida he focused on writing this time fiction he

chose for his pen name Bedford Forrest Carter named of course after a Nathan

Bedford Forrest Confederate general and first Grand Wizard of the Ku Klux Klan

so in case people want to say oh he was this was him reforming himself he

literally took his pen name after the founder of the fucking KKK I don't think

he's moved very far in his opinions Forrest grew a mustache got a tan and

started dressing like a cowboy he started calling his own sons nephews and

began to bullshit everyone he met about his past but he did take the writing

seriously and sold his first novel the rebel outlaw Josie Wales now this was a

first basically a self-published book like he found this little outlet where

he had to pay in order to get the book printed and stuff and so he's like

selling out of the back of his car taking it to bookstores mailing it to

people and then it worked he was able to through this route get it picked up by a

larger publisher I hate that he becomes successful yeah there's nothing about

the story that I absolutely hate to my core now I don't know if you know

anything about the story of the outlaw Josie Wales but it very much is sort of

this symbolic telling of ace Carter's own story because Josie Wales it

literally called the rebel outlaw he was a southerner who refused to accept the

the reconstruction era south and so he flees west to Texas and ends up you know

becoming an outlaw getting all this trouble but in the end he manages to

kind of like start a new life for himself away from this society that

moved away from his values so you can sort of say this is like this heroic

retelling in his brain like this self mythologizing he is the Clint Eastwood

in this story now I don't know you're good this is yeah you tainted Clint

Eastwood I mean not that I mean that's not hard but yeah it's not really at all

but yeah um yeah an editor I used to work with wrote a biography on Clint

Eastwood yeah he was a piece of shit and we're actually gonna talk a few things

about that here now Robert Daly was a producer working with Clint Eastwood in

the 70s and this was a guy with an eye for material to adapt to the screen he

found an unsolicited copy of Josie Wales just in the slush pile of stuff coming

into the office that was sent in by Carter and he just he was kind of like

looks interesting so after dinner he grabbed the book decided to read the

first few chapters and ended up he thought it was a page turner I mean I

haven't read it but apparently it's a pretty good Western if you like that

sort of thing and so he literally like late at night called Clint Eastwood to

discuss it who took his call because he's like well damn if Robert's calling

me in the middle of the night about this book it must be pretty cool so a typical

option to adapt a novel to the screen in the like early 70s was about five grand

Forrest Carter got five times that much with his very first book with a promise

of much more cash to come so this is the beginning of his like financial success

as an author so here he is on that verge of breaking out and you get the sense

that Forrest suddenly became really afraid of his past screwing things up

for him so in the spring of 1974 Asa Carter reappeared in Alabama and went

into the field office of the Federal Bureau of Investigations from the

documentary the reconstruction of Asa Carter quote Carter tells the agent that

he's about to leave Alabama and if they ever need to reach him for any reason he

gives them two phone numbers and the FBI agent asks well why would we want to

contact you ace and he says well I think I'm gonna stop making some money for the

first time in my life and I want anything to screw it up he had the

foresight to know what an FBI agent sniffing around might mean to his career

it would be the last entry in an FBI file that stretched over a thousand

pages unquote so this guy as a terrorist has a fucking file this thick an

encyclopedia solid his last ones like look if you guys need anything I'm

available just just don't go talking to people you contact me through these

numbers because he really really wanted to sell this forest Carter is a real

person thing because there's one thing to be a book author back then because

you can be a successful author and still be pretty much anonymous but the moment

movies and like mainstream media get involved that's when like people start

paying more attention to you so the original director was a guy named Philip

Kaufman and he wanted to make changes to the script to downplay what he felt were

fascist overtones yeah I can I can see that you're like you know and in fact he

had such a problem with it and the fact that there was pushback and they

wouldn't didn't want him to change the script that he quit the project over

creative differences but you know who doesn't mind fascist overtones a little

bit Clint fucking Eastwood that's who if you need a fascist movie or someone to

yell at an empty chair for an hour you just call Clint so he took over

directing as well as starring in the film that tracks and again I've seen the

movie even though it's been a while I remember liking it I mean it seems like

a fun Western I'd have to watch it again with my more adult and educated lens to

kind of see the stuff they're talking about I just have big memories of it

Clint Eastwood shoots a bunch of people no you know what I've learned recently

about nostalgia is that it sucks yeah it's like you know how much looking back

do we really really need yeah I think the word nostalgia literally comes from

a root word which means an old wound yeah it's actually a damaging in many

many ways I mean worth the very least just being exploited to sell us back our

childhood which we're living through right now you know it's like I still

love The Wizard of Oz even though I know that everyone in it was basically

tortured in order to make that film and it's like well you got tortured for

something Judy Garland the original Tin Man nearly died he did and he didn't

even get to be in the film we didn't get any money for it he just literally it

gave him cancer and he almost died. Now during the press tour for Josie Wales

Forest Carter gave an interview to Barbara Walters on the Today Show

instantly causing many folks in Alabama to fall out of their chairs as the ace

Carter they knew spewed obvious bullshit on national television this led to some

sniffing around and on August 26 1976 the New York Times published an

uncredited piece titled is Forest Carter really ace a Carter only Josie Wales may

know for sure the piece lays out the evidence that the racist and the cowboy

author were one in the same including the fact that the novel had a copyright

application with the same address in Oxford Alabama used to a ace a Carter so

it's like a slam dunk they're the same fucking guy plus look at a picture of

this one and the one with the mustache and the hat you don't have to have

facial recognition in order to have some facial recognition so from this from

this New York Times piece quote but Forest Carter says it isn't so he says

that he is no politician but both a cowboy and an Indian and that his next

book the education of Little Tree will tell about his own Indian childhood in

the household of his grandfather half Cherokee and his grandmother full

Cherokee unquote and speaking of shameless cultural appropriation at the

same time Forest Carter was dodging allegations of his racist past his most

beloved work was released the education of Little Tree was first published to

modest success but as we discussed before it went on to have waves of

bestseller status and to this day many adults consider it a one of their

beloved children's books that means a lot to a lot of people when that's kind

of why Oprah picked it even after the book had been out for a long time

because people read it and were touched it's all bullshit and lies children yeah

that's the problem I'm now granted if you just publish it as fiction yeah but

yeah that's the thing it was published as a memoir in the non-fiction section

supposedly as Forest Carter's memory of life with his Cherokee grandparents that

now the book at the very beginning of the book it declared the author the

storyteller in counsel to the Cherokee Nation but weirdly the publisher didn't

contact the Cherokee Nation to verify this the memoir finger quotes

intentional not only included completely fictional events and people it included

straight-up bullshit so like made-up Cherokee words made up Cherokee customs

completely inaccurately described what people think you know of this culture

would be doing and wearing and at this time so for example in the book the

grandparents have young little tree wearing buckskins something not

typically seen in Cherokee living in the 1920s who are wearing mostly just normal

clothes yeah but remember this is the 1970s and he was this this was this was

romanticizing it for this like hippie audience though you know our parents

the boomer hippies who are putting feathers in their hair and adopting all

this I mean this is almost to the day two years before I was born because yeah

this is this period where we're Native Americans began to be kind of weirdly

romanticized even as we still treated them like dog shit but this is where

like you know remember the old PSA with the crying in which that dude was an

Italian so yeah this is just so this is just typical of this period because once

again it's just trying to weaponize this sort of like weird feeling we had

because there's all these books like the last of the Mohicans there's all these

stories that kind of tried to rehabilitate the image and romanticize

and you know this idea of the noble savage and they're the sort of lost

cause we sort of almost feel bad about everything we did to them and continue

to do to them and oppress them all while we talk about how great they are

because they you know they're in touch with nature and have these wise ways and

stuff instead of treating them like real people instead they're once again just

made into a monolith it's just it's all it's bad but it's like so so it's like

this is not directly attacking them but instead just using them for for his own

game which is again sucks I mean to me that's the very American like cultural

appropriation is something I have my own mixed feelings about because sometimes I

think it's overused I mean there's culture blends and crosses over and like

not there there's some things that are attacked I think aren't so harmful but

with this a hundred percent is it's like I'm gonna just make up shit about

another culture dress up and tell a fake story to sell books that's that is

which would be fine if you sold it as fiction correct so while forest careers

and author was taking off his personal life was a shit show he separated from

his wife who stayed in Florida and moved to Abilene Texas and was working on a

little tree sequel he was well liked and known for being a good friend and an

engaging dinner guest but sometimes when he had a little bit too much whiskey

he'd mutter unfortunately racial slurs under his breath or say something

terrible that people had to apologize for because once again I don't think I

think he's hiding his racism he didn't change his ways like he never once

addressed any of it that tracks so yeah I know I know certain other people from

Alabama who do that too they just never happened don't want to discuss it let's

not talk about any of that so Asa Earl Forrest Bumblebee Carter only lived at

the age of 53 and his death is just as weird and ugly as the rest of his life

yay the details are sketchy but one thing the stories all agree on he was

visiting his son in Potosi Texas when they got into some kind of argument and

the younger Carter punched his old man square in the face he he punched his old

man to death he punched him in the face one time and he just died so most of the

reports state that Carter had a heart attack on the scene died others say he

hit on his head on the way down to the floor and died choking on his own vomit

either way he's dead yay we got there you know the only thing I can say about

this story is I'm really glad it wasn't three parts no this one I couldn't do

that to you plus it really wasn't enough meat and this one to really justify a

multi-part episode um a man named Howard White reflected on his friendship with

Asa Carter in his later years saying quote ace was one of the most complex

people I've ever known and you wonder if anyone really knew him sometimes I

wonder if he really knew himself unquote you know who now fucking wife India that

bitch Noah she knew what a piece of shit he was from start to finish guarantee

even if she loved him and and was all good with it she knew yeah now she it

took her a really long time after his death to finally admit to the press

because every once in a while become so she for years she denied that that

Forrest and Asa Carter were the same person but eventually she didn't care

anymore yeah and she lived I think she lived

sometime into the 1990s so she looked just like his own mother's his wife

outlived him by decades and that's it we did it another dead racist in the books

here at Chainsaw History they're dead hooray

huzzah don't we aren't we glad things are all better now oh well I will say

this the education of little tree has been now reclassified as fiction and

Oprah took it off of her book list well that's good and basically just said I

didn't know I just thought it was a nice book you know which is fair enough she

certainly wasn't the only one fooled and most people were unless you were happy

to be Cherokee yeah and again it's it's like the whole that's very scandalous

but it's only scandalous because it's why wouldn't you just put it as a

fiction book it almost doesn't need to be a biography I think he thought it

needed to be to sell the story but you know it's hard to say you know in the

end he died early in his career so he never even had I guess we'll never know

that if he'd live longer if he would have confronted his change of ways if

his other books were doing who knows either way not too sorry that this guy

is dead me looks like actual fucking terrorists that's what I wasn't

expecting I kind of knew he was a racist piece of shit going into this I had no

idea the extent I was like my eyebrows went really wide it's like I think I

need to talk about this wait what he assaulted Nat King Cole that's probably

the linchpin well that definitely was the what the fuck moment it's like yeah

I need to tell this to somebody because I've never heard that before well this

is our first new recording and quite a while but we've got new episodes on the

way soon I keep hinting about this one guy I'm gonna talk about and I keep

putting it off but I think I'm gonna start that script soon until then you

can visit our patreon at chainsawhistory.com you can visit my website at

jamiechambers.net or my Twitter account which is at jamie1km and you can good

luck finding Bambi in the internet I don't live or play there it's fine even

though I will sometimes tag her in pictures that's that's all you get oh

while we're on the it just this is a complete change of topic but and I'm

almost thinking about putting it as my profile pic for a while Aaron got me a

Barbie doll to commemorate our first podcast so I because I collect Barbie

dolls now and the owner of George Washington Barbie you got George

Washington Barbie she's dressed in hot pink it's fabulous so am I gonna have to

get George Wallace Barbie made for you under absolutely no circumstances if we

get enough patrons where we start having more money than we know it to spend I

promise you I will make this happen no thanks I don't know no I mean I have

Barbie and Ken and some some really weird situations but I definitely I mean

I'm really cool with George Washington I'm sure what as it would the people of

we can work our way through and do a Francis Perkins Barbie next or should

be I would love Francis you know she's all grumpy Barbie she doesn't have to

she could yeah it'd be like Barbie and her skeptical again big old glasses

trying to hide her face Francis Perkins is dressed like an old lady when she was

20 years old now I have Eliza do little Barbie we have a tradition of talking

about recommended charitable donations and considering the way that Asa Carter

appropriated a Cherokee identity for his personal profit I say give a direct

donation to the Cherokee Nation or another organization to help indigenous

people of America so if you check the show notes I will have a couple of links

up along those lines um I actually just the only link I want to put up is for a

suicide hotline um there's just it's going around right now so take care of

yourselves take care of each other and if anyone needs it we'll have that one

800 number up on our site too yeah and if anyone's you know if you're feeling

that way feeling especially sad lonely if you're thinking at all about hurting

yourself yet call the call the hotline or talk to someone you trust don't try

to wrestle with all this stuff alone yeah the world is terrible and you know

get help when you need it so take care of you indeed and that note I think

we're gonna call it another one in the books thanks for listening everybody

hooray thanks bye

little girl you're the one girl for me little girl you're sweet as can be with

your glance you brought me love from the start oh what a thrill came into my heart

little girl with your cute little ways I'm yours for the rest of my days