Partner with work of CareImpact and Neighbourly!

https://careimpact.ca/donate

Description

What happens when the story we tell ourselves about someone keeps us from seeing the person in front of us?

In this reflective episode of Neighbourly, Johan and Shannon step back from the regular guest interviews to talk about assumptions, the quick judgments we make, and the stories we build about people before we really know them.

Together, they explore how easy it is to reduce someone to one moment, one behaviour, one request, or one struggle, and how neighbourly care invites us to slow down, stay curious, and protect dignity. From parenting moments in public, to CarePortal requests, homelessness, school experiences, and the story of Zacchaeus, this conversation gently reminds us that there is almost always more going on beneath the surface.

This episode is not about ignoring harm or pretending everything is fine. It is about learning to ask better questions before our assumptions become labels.

This week’s simple step:

When you notice yourself forming an assumption about someone, pause and ask, “What might I not know?”

Time Stamps

01:35 CareCreatives Company

04:37 Struggling with small talk

09:23 Practicing self-awareness and empathy

12:50 Understanding community assumptions and needs

14:25 Understanding homelessness complexities

16:58 Discussing the damage of assumptions

21:05 Biblical examples of looking beyond labels

23:58 Reflecting on Zacchaeus story

28:46 Being a good neighbour

Other Links

Join The CareImpact Podcast Group on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/share/g/1PgzJWfkq9/

Reach out to us! https://neighbourlypodcast.ca

Email: podcast@careimpact.ca

About the CarePortal: careimpact.ca/careportal

DONATE! Help connect and equip more churches across Canada to effectively journey well in community with the most vulnerable: careimpact.ca/donate

One time there was a CarePortal request that came in for TV and there

were some questions that came from some church responders on why the

family was requesting a tv because they didn't quite see how that was

a vital need, you know? And typically the requests that come in are

maybe urgent things. Yeah. From the outside, someone might think

that's not essential. Like, why would they ask for that when there's so many

other needs that they probably have? But we take for granted that sense of

normalcy. It's normal for a family to have a tv and they

need those rhythms. It might be rest.

Every one of us has done it. We see one moment,

one decision, one reaction, one messy situation,

and without even meaning to, we start writing a whole story

about someone. Maybe they're irresponsible,

Maybe they don't care. Maybe they should have known better. Maybe

they're just difficult. But what if there's more going on than what we

can see? Hey, everyone. I'm Johan, the producer of

Neighbourly. Today. Shannon and myself are stepping back from our

regular guest interviews for another reflective episode. And we're talking

about assumptions, the stories we tell ourselves about people

before we really know them. And this isn't a conversation where we're

the experts, where either of us are pretending we've figured this out.

It's more of an honest look about how easily we fill in the

blanks and how Neighbourly Care invites us to slow down, stay

curious and see the person right in front of us, not just the

problem. Before we join Shannon at the table, we believe

stories stick with us. They can change lives and they can

shift our perspective. That's a big part of what we're doing

with this podcast as part of CareImpact's message.

Neighbourly is a CareImpact podcast produced in

partnership with CARE Creatives company. Care Creatives

helps organizations clarify their message through

branding, design, websites, print and audio production.

All for social good. Hey, if you need any of that, check us

out@carecreativesco.ca. all right, come join

Shannon and I at the table for this conversation.

Shannon, we're back at it. We are.

Woohoo. Yeah. Another one of those episodes where we get to

step back from our regular interviews and just kind of reflect on some of the

things that we've been hearing. What are we going to be talking about today?

Today we are talking about assumptions and some of the

stories that we tell ourselves about other people

before we have a chance to know them. And as

I was preparing for this and thinking about just being

honest, like ways I've done that before. And so I don't think

either of us are coming at this from a place of, like, we

have it all figured out and everybody else is doing it wrong. I think

we see over the years how we've learned in

different ways, and now through the work we do, you know, we get to

keep seeing that and providing some. Hopefully some

education and some opportunities for people to

see the human in one another a little bit more than

maybe jumping to a conclusion about. About someone.

Yeah. I think we all have our assumptions, and I assume the more you

do care Portal requests a lot of those assumptions about

people, they diminish over time, even, right? Absolutely.

Well, Shannon, let's just start off. What are some harmless

assumptions people might think about you that aren't totally

accurate? Because people have assumptions about all of us, Right? Yeah. One

I've heard before is that people assume I'm always,

like, extroverted and always energized by others.

And I am, to a point. Like, I love talking to people. I love

connecting. I love learning and understanding

what makes someone who they are. And I can be,

especially in places where I'm comfortable, I can be pretty carefree. But

other people and group settings really only energize

me to a point. And as soon as I hit that point, then people start

to train me. And so I. I sometimes just need to go and have time

and space on my own. Yeah, I can really relate to that, too.

I'm kind of the same way where I need to recharge after. For me, I

think people often assume that because I work in podcasting and they hear my

voice online. I mean, you too, but. And

that I've been in leadership, I've done preaching and all these things. I must be

great at talking to people. I must be great at meeting new people. But

honestly, I feel like that's one of my biggest weaknesses. I do

know how to turn it on, though. When I'm in a group, I can make

people laugh. I can ask questions and get curious, which

is probably the biggest first step to actually communicating with people

is asking good questions, but connecting

personally with no agenda. That's where it gets really

challenging. Because I hate small talk as well. Like, I can

interview someone for an hour because I've had a chance to prepare for that and

I've interviewed other people. Right. But small talk in a lobby, where you're just running

into someone, or they approach you at church and you're in the. In the lobby

and want to start a conversation, and they start talking about the Weather.

I'm like, oh, not another weather conversation. So why

do you think people are so quick to fill in the blanks about others?

Yeah, I sat with this question for a long time, and I struggled to really

even, like, make sense of why. Like, why do we do this?

But as it kind of went further, even in my own self, I

think we, especially in today's world,

we're not great at sitting or tolerating with

uncomfortable feelings or uncomfortable situations,

and we don't like unknowns. We want things to be pretty

black and white or right and wrong. And. And so sitting with

some complexity, I don't think is our default.

And this might not be true for everybody, but I think sometimes I

see. Again, even just in myself, I tend to think

kind of linear. Like, I see something, a behavior or a situation,

and my default is, well, there must be a clear reason for that.

You know, because of XYZ or they're acting this way, you know, just because

of they're annoying or something. You know, this, like, clear cut point A

to point B. And that's not

usually the case. Yeah, that makes total sense. Even as a

podcast person. Like, that's one of the reasons why we're actually

doing Neighbourly is because we want to make those stories known so

that there are less assumptions. And. And we want people to know

there's always a story behind everyone's life. Right. And the thing

is, we like clean stories. We like things to make sense quickly, but

real people almost never fit into those clean categories. Like,

people are messy, and real life's not a podcast episode that I get to

edit afterwards. People are not edited episodes.

And I try to keep real to these stories when we do these interviews

as well, to keep the real voice and keep the honesty. But. But you.

You can. You can always remove some of my extra fillers, you know?

Yeah, the people don't need to hear that. The number of times I say, can

we start over? Oh, exactly. So if

anyone was hesitant to be on the podcast, we can edit

all that stuff out. If you're afraid, don't worry. Yeah.

And like you're saying, and I think that's where assumptions can be so dangerous for.

We see one, One scene from someone's life, it might be the first time

we encounter them. Our brain starts to try to connect those dots, and we

try to assume, to understand the whole story. So why

do assumptions happen so naturally? I mean, it's kind of like our previous

question, but why does. Why is this so natural in us for us to have

assumptions yeah, that's a great question. We're all coming from our own

perspectives and our perspectives on life, and that is always going

to be shaped by our worldview and our life

experiences. And a lot of it is learned behaviors

that we've seen from the people around us and

people growing up and all these different things. And that's just the point of

view that we move through life. And I

think most people aren't intending to

maliciously make an assumption about others, but it can

happen almost automatically. And so I think that's really the

core of this, is not to shame anybody for

having an assumption. I think what we're really trying to help people do in

this episode is pause and learn how to pause when

we're making those assumptions. And instead of jumping to a conclusion,

be a little bit more aware of ourselves and where that assumption

might be coming from, a little bit preemptively. I

think that's important. And you're right. I don't think most assumptions

come from cruelty automatically. Sometimes they come from what someone

has been taught in their home. Sometimes they come from what they've

experienced. And quite often it comes from fear, just of the unknown, like

you said earlier. And for me, sometimes they come from things we just really

have. haven't taken the time to think deeply about before. And

that's something I've had to learn over the years. That doesn't make assumptions harmless, but

it does mean that we need to be honest about how easily these stories can

form inside of us. So I just mentioned where I noticed it

in myself or I just haven't had time to think deeply on a lot of

these assumptions. Where do you notice it in yourself? Yeah,

I'll be a. I'll be a guinea pig and put myself out

there. One I see in myself that I'm constantly trying to

work on and be aware of is when I'm out and about in public

and I see parents and kids interacting.

And one example might be, you know, I'm at the grocery store or a restaurant,

and I see a parent respond to their child a certain way and

think, ooh, like, that's not what I would do if I were a parent, you

know, thinking I have all this experience and I must know better

or, you know, even if I'm just interacting with someone and

I might kind of put a label on them as, like, being a little bit

more difficult to work with or talk with and

just assuming that's who they are, like they're demanding or they're annoying

or, you know, these. This is kind of the internal dialogue.

And I say that not because I. I am proud

of that by any means, but I'm trying to notice and be self aware in

myself of that's where my kind of internal

judgment starts to go. And those can be assumptions that I can

make quickly without considering, oh, maybe that

family's having a really hard day and that mom is doing the very

best she can and that kid just did that thing again that she told them

not to do. Or, you know, I'm, I'm with a person

and they just had a phone call from a family member and they are really

struggling. Like, I don't know if, but at the same time, that's

where we can start to think of ourselves and just be like, oh, I'm justified

and I would do it differently or I would do it better. And yet we

just don't. We don't know. We don't know what's right underneath the surface.

Yeah. That reminds me, when I used to work as an EA many, many years

ago, there were times sitting in the staff room with the other staff where they

talk about the students. There'd be a student that misbehaves on a regular

basis or they'd act out. The staff would just assume like they don't care,

that they're lazy, that they weren't raised well. I've actually heard them

say, and this was heartbreaking when I've heard it, that that student is a waste

of space. And my heart just broke when I heard that.

Just knowing, like from a Christian perspective, that they are

God's image bearers. Yeah. And the more I sat in the

context, working with these students, asking them questions about

their life. I mean, they don't often share much anyway.

But I've heard about some of these students whose siblings went

missing, or if they've witnessed violence in their home, or they had to

protect their mom from her new boyfriend, Stuff like

that. They're dealing with that. We just can't understand that context.

Like, we've never been in a lot of that context. Yeah. So from the outside,

the behaviors look like defiance and laziness, but underneath

there's like, fear, there's trauma, frustration, shame,

exhaustion. So a student not doing homework

might look like laziness from the outside, but there's a real story

of fear and trauma, like I was saying, and a learning disability

sometimes where they're just, they. They really do care so much,

but they have trouble reading, so it becomes really frustrating. And they act out

behaviorally. Those are some of those assumptions that even

caregivers, those in authority, like teachers,

they have assumptions about students sometimes. I'm not painting everybody with this

broad stroke, but there's some out there that are caring for these kids that just

don't take the time to understand. So, Shannon, where do you see this show up

in churches and neighborhoods and community care, especially working with Care

Portal? Yeah. Something I've noticed in these

environments, and this is often just under the surface a

little bit, it's not something we'd maybe say outright, is

that we, the collective, we, the church, the community, the

neighborhood, can often assume what people need. And again,

going back to what you're saying in the beginning, this isn't

malicious, but it's sometimes just our default. And

especially like me, if you're a helper, you want to fix things,

you want to right wrongs, you can quickly jump into like, oh,

well, I know what that family probably needs. An example of

this is one time there was a CarePortal request that came in,

and the request was for tv. And there were some questions that

came from some church responders on why the family was

requesting a tv, because they didn't. They didn't quite see

how that was a vital need, you know, and typically the requests

that come in are. Are maybe urgent things. And what

they didn't know was that that family was needing a smart

TV because it was going to have multiple purposes. One of their kids was going

to be able to do something, some schoolwork, using that tv, and it could then

also be used for other things. Yeah. And so when we see that request come

in, we don't necessarily know the whole story.

Another common one I can see show up in conversations

with community and just in friendships even, is

how people view homelessness. And sometimes the

narrative is often, well, why don't they just go get a

job? And from the outside, that's really,

really easy to say. And. And I think for me, coming from a place

of not experiencing poverty and not

experiencing major hardship in my life, I kind of used to think that way

too, of, like, well, you know, if you're able to stand outside

with the sign, like, why. Why not just spend that time, you know, looking for

a job? And I'm so glad that over the

years, God has humbled me and I've kept my heart soft to

remain curious and compassionate, because

obviously now as I've been in this space a little bit

and asked some more questions, there's so

much beyond the person standing on the corner that I don't

see. I don't know if they're battling active addiction or

untreated mental illness, or they

lack access to, you know, shower facilities or

transportation to get to a job interview. We. There's so many

factors that it is not as simple as just going and getting a

job. And it, it can really oversimplify

what people are navigating. Yeah, so that's one

example where I've seen in my own self,

learning and really wanting to help. Communities

and churches look at themselves in that

way as well. And again, not to shame anybody, but to

help open our eyes to different perspective.

Yeah, I've heard that phrase before too. Like, why don't they just get a job?

And that's one of those clean story assumptions. Right. It gives,

it gives a simple explanation, but it skips over so

much complexity. And I think sometimes those simple

explanations make suffering feel more manageable from a

distance. Like we have the answers if they just got a job like that.

It's simple and they give us no reason not to wrestle with those harder

questions. And again, for me, it's thinking deeper on these things.

But real care, as we've learned, really begins when

we're willing to sit with that complexity, when we're willing to

sit with that curiosity. The TV example that you

gave, that's a great example. Because from the outside, someone might think

that's not essential. Like, why would they ask for that when there's so many

other needs that they probably have? But we take for granted that sense of

normalcy. It's normal for a family to have a TV and they

need those rhythms. It might be rest. It might be a

time for a parent to connect with their child and have that connection time where

their child's not distracted by something else or behaviors. They can just

sit together in quiet. It might be creating that sense of

home, because that's a normal thing to have in your home.

This doesn't mean every request is simple, obviously, and it doesn't mean we

can't ask wise questions. But neighborly care

starts from curiosity, not suspicion. So I

think we all just need to be more curious. Okay, let's shift the conversation a

little bit and talk about the damage of assumptions.

So if assumptions are often automatic, and if

we all do this in different ways, then maybe the next question

is what damage do assumptions actually do? Because I think

assumptions create distance. We don't get

closer to people because we have assumptions about them. They can reduce people

to their worst moment, reduce them to their, to their need, their

behavior or financial situation. We can reduce them to their

parenting stress or Whatever visible struggle we happen to see. But, Shannon,

how can assumptions keep us from seeing the person in front of us?

I think you said it right there. We can see one moment and start

to make this whole story in our head and. And then we end up missing

the whole person that's standing right in front of us

and start to maybe put

a label on someone and start to define them by

that one moment rather than really seeing

them for the whole person that they are. Yeah. Because

we all have bad moments, and if that's our first

impression or our only impression someone gets of us, we walk away

just cringing. It's like, oh, my goodness,

that's what I put forward for this person. Some of these people

live with that more often because of their situations. And that.

That must be heart wrenching for them to live with that on a daily

basis sometimes because there's so much more to them, Right?

Absolutely. Yeah. So that makes me think about

something smaller, but still real. People sometimes assume

that I'm disengaged because I'm. When. When there's more than

two people in a room and there's conversations, I'm usually

the quiet one. Believe it or not, even at home, my wife has

experienced this too. She'll ask me a question, and then there

will just be silence, and it drives her crazy. The truth is, I'm

not not listening. I'm usually processing because I.

You know, biblically, you want to be slow to speak. Right,

right, right. But I tend to need time to digest what people

are saying. Mostly because I don't like the

taste of my foot in my mouth. Yeah. But it's a small

example of how easily we can misread people. We can

misread silence. We can misread behavior, or we can misread

tone. We can misread the struggle or the day that they're having.

When we're at a grocery store and the teller's not smiling and

grouchy, we can say, well, they're really bad at customer service. Maybe they're just having

a bad day. Yeah. And once that label gets attached, it can be a

lot harder for us to see a person clearly, especially if that's our first

impression of them. So how does curiosity

protect dignity? Yeah, it's a great question.

I think. I think it protects dignity because curiosity

helps us resist the urge to make somebody simple.

And most people are carrying grief, pressure,

history, often fear, even trauma.

And these are all kinds of things that we can't immediately

see. And curiosity also reminds me that my

own perspective is limited. I might have an

interpretation of someone's behavior, but that

interpretation is definitely not the whole truth.

And I think there's just something deeply dignifying about

really listening and curiosity helps. Tell someone,

I want to know you. And there is safety really

here to be yourself. And I think when someone feels safe

and you can be trusted with whatever it is they want to say,

that's really where someone feels dignified. That's good.

And if you know me, I like to bring in scripture into these conversations

because, as it says in Timothy, Scripture is profitable for teaching

reproof, correction, and for training in righteousness.

And obviously, Jesus is such a beautiful example

of what we're talking about today. One of the things that we see so clearly

in his life is that he consistently saw people beneath the

labels, beyond their labels that others have placed on

them. We see it. The woman at the well. And

specifically, I'm thinking right now, I don't need to go to a sermon here, but

the story of Zacchaeus, he really fits into that conversation. Everyone

already decided who Zacchaeus was. He. He was a tax

collector. He was corrupt. He was compromised.

He was not the guy people wanted Jesus spending time with. I'm pretty sure

they. They tried to counsel him against it. Why? Yeah,

let's maybe not talk to this person. Can we just

move it over here? So, Shannon, when you think about Zacchaeus,

what stands out to you about the way Jesus treats him?

Yeah, well, like you said, tax collectors in those days

were not at all viewed highly. Well, I don't think we still like

paying taxes. That's true. But especially in those

days, they were corrupt, like you said, and would

often take more than the tax somebody owed and just

keep that for themselves. And so, you know, I think

if I were, you know, one of the people who were

viewing Zacchaeus this way, like, I'd feel pretty

righteous in my anger towards this man. And yet

Jesus not only noticed Zacchaeus, but he moved

towards him, and he said, I'm gonna stay at your

house. And that just doesn't make sense. Zacchaeus

treated people unjustly. He was what we'd call a bad

guy or, you know, a sinner. I would probably be offended, actually.

Yeah. And so. So culture would say,

like, this guy's. He's not who you want to hang out with. Like, we need

to call him out and chastise him because he's been doing wrong. And like you

said, he's a tax collector. So to be fair, some of that story was probably

based on real Harm where. Where he actually did harm to people

by collecting taxes when it probably wasn't justified. He'd

probably taken advantage of people. He. And he probably benefited from this

unjust system. And we feel like we're all righteous when

we stand up against these things. But this isn't about pretending.

None of that mattered. And Jesus didn't excuse what Zacchaeus

had done, and he also didn't reduce what he had done.

But the crowd saw that label, and Jesus saw the person.

And being seen differently opened the door to living

differently. Jesus didn't ignore the truth again,

but he saw more than one piece of it. Yeah, those assumptions that

we have coming in. When I was reading

this short passage of Zacchaeus before today, it kind

of just struck me again. And this is a story that

I. You know, I've been singing the Zacchaeus song since I was a little kid,

and yet this is what Jesus says. He says, today, salvation

has come to this house because this man, too, is a son of

Abraham. For the son of man came to seek and to save

the lost. And even in all of the. The

harm that Zacchaeus had done, Jesus didn't see that as

the end of the story. Yesterday, I saw a video. It

reminds me of this, and it. It just. It stopped me in my tracks.

Well, probably cry as I tell this story again, but it was a video of

a young woman. Her name is Shelby Brown. And in the video,

she was speaking to inmates in a prison. And she shares

this story that her dad was a police officer. And when she was

18, he responded to a call and he was

shot four times and he passed away. She shares that in

the pain and the brokenness she felt, the Lord was prompting her

to make a decision. And this is what she felt like. The Lord said,

I felt like. He said, shelby, close your eyes. I

want you to picture the face of Jesus. What did his eyes look

like on the cross? And for me, she says, they were looking

straight at me, filled with tears. And I felt like he said,

shelby, I did this for you. But do you know who I also

did this for? I did this for the man who shot your father.

Wow. And she goes on to talk about how she chose to forgive the man

that killed her dad. And now she brings the hope and the

redemption of Jesus to men and women in prison.

And I can't stop thinking about that. Because where we see labels,

where we see a grumpy neighbor or a tax collector

or even a murderer, Jesus still sees

a person. And that does not excuse the Behavior. It

does not say that it was okay. Jesus says it's still

not too much for his mercy and his grace.

It's really good. So we need to wrap up pretty soon here.

So this is where we need to get a bit more practical. How do we

actually move from judgment, these assumptions,

into curiosity? Curiosity doesn't mean that we throw

wisdom out the window. I like the quote. Don't be so open minded

that your brains fall out. Yeah. It means that we refuse to

reduce a person to what we actually see in that moment. I can mention

before I would say an unhelpful version of this would be

don't judge anyone, everything is fine. But I think a better version

of that is use wisdom, keep healthy boundaries,

and don't let your first assumptions become your final answer.

So, Shannon, how do we stay compassionate without

ignoring harm? Yeah. Well, I think it's important to say

this. We are talking about pausing and being curious

before we make assumptions. And. And that's not the same

thing as excusing harmful behavior. Just like I talked about in that last

story, accountability still matters. Using wisdom

still matters. But staying compassionate can look

like acknowledging that there's more. We don't see whether that's

instability or fear or trauma. And that can help

us to understand someone's behavior without excusing

it while still wanting to know the human underneath the

surface. I think multiple things can be true at the

same time. Yeah. I think curiosity doesn't mean pretending that harm

is okay. It means refusing to let harm become the only thing

that we believe about a person. Yeah. So even sitting with a story

and, and showing that you're understanding someone's story doesn't mean

that we're justifying everything that they do. It just means

that we're starting to understand. Yeah. So we're going to transition to the end

here. So maybe a practical invitation this week. We'll keep it

simple. So when we notice ourselves making these assumptions about people,

when we encounter them, here's three questions I think that we can ask ourselves.

I'm sure there's more, but these are just three that we've thought of. First of

all, what story am I telling myself?

Number two, what might I not know? And

lastly, what would dignity require here? And

that might mean asking a better question. It might mean offering patience.

It might mean learning someone's name. It might mean softening our

tone. It might mean praying for the person. It

might mean choosing not to repeat the assumption as gossip. Yeah.

And it might mean moving closer with wisdom instead of pulling away in

judgment. Because again, being curious actually brings us closer to

people and it breaks that distance that we have.

Shannon, you have any final thoughts before we close out this episode?

Yeah, I think all of what you just shared is really what it means to

be neighborly. You know, not pretending that we know the whole story,

but still staying curious enough to just see the person

in front of us. And again, we say this. I think

hopefully we've said this before, but Care doesn't have to be perfect.

We don't have to get it. All right, Sometimes you're I. Plenty of times,

you know, connect with somebody and I'm trying to say something that I think is

smart or wise, but at the end of the day, it

just means being present and listening

and caring about someone and caring

about who they are underneath the surface, beyond

what we just see on the outside. And I think that is

really what can help us look a lot more like Jesus

when we move towards those who people tend to move away

from and when we ask the questions instead of

staying off at a distance, that's what it really means to be a

good neighbor. And hey, listeners, we'd love to hear any

stories if you've gone from judgment into curiosity, if you've

been able to make that transition and have some specific

stories to tell, because those are great stories to share on

this platform. So reach out to us. podcast@careimpact.ca.

We'll see you next time. The stories we share here remind us that

CARE does not have to be perfect to be powerful. It just has to be

present. Neighborly is an initiative of CareImpact, a

Canadian charity equipping churches, agencies and

communities with technology and training to care better

together. This episode was produced by CareCreatives

Company, a social enterprise of CareImpact. If

you're building a podcast

and want help with

strategy, editing, or full

production, visit

CareCreatives Co to

connect with us. I'm Johan.

Thanks for listening. And

be that kind of neighbor

Someone will never forget

in a good way. When I see you

in a stranger I no longer

stay Turning over tables

Tearing down walls.