Shownotes
Finding Healing by Accident: A Journey of Resilience, Faith, and Transformation
Life can take unexpected turns, thrusting us into the depths of pain and uncertainty. However, it is in these moments of adversity that we discover our true strength and the power of faith. In this captivating story, we delve into a life-altering accident in 1985 and the remarkable 12-year journey of healing that followed. Pat Butler’s healing experiences, both external and internal, offer invaluable lessons in resilience, self-discovery, and the pursuit of purpose. So, fasten your seat belts as we embark on a rollercoaster ride of hope and transformation.
In life, we are often tested by adversity, but it is how we respond that defines us. Let Pat’s incredible journey of healing and self-discovery serve as a beacon of hope, reminding us that no challenge is insurmountable.
- In this episode you’ll hear:
- How pivotal moments shape our lives, urging us to step outside our comfort zones
- Benefits of surrendering to a higher power during times of trial
- The importance of thinking outside the box
- How to conquer even the most formidable obstacles by embracing determination and unwavering resolve
About Pat:
From European cloisters to tropical rain forests, Pat Butler has cultivated a global network of artists through writing, mentoring, and spiritual direction. With creativity and the arts, Pat seeks to restore the broken imagination and engage the intellect. For superpowers, she offers a listening ear, discernment, and a willing to sit speechless over a glass of wine, throwing in a small gesture now and then.
Pat is a published poet (Finishing Line Press) and author of a narrative nonfiction/memoir, Collision, How I Found My Life by Accident (Redemption Press). Pat currently resides in South Florida, where she walks with cranes, dodges hurricanes, and beavers away on her new manuscript. She also curates the Mythic Monastery, an online safe house for souls without names, that they might find one.
Website: https://mythicmonastery.org/
FB: The Mythic Monastery https://www.facebook.com/search/top?q=the%20mythic%20monastery
IG: @mythic_monastery
Pinterest: The Mythic Monastery: https://www.pinterest.com/patb1691/
I really hope to connect with you personally so please send me a message here or join me in my Facebook group https://www.facebook.com/groups/connectednesswithrevkaren. And in the meantime, enjoy the show!
Transcripts
And the passage that's often cited is Paul's thorn in the side and
rev karen:he asked to have it taken away and God said, no, my grace is sufficient.
rev karen:And so I was quoted that quite a bit.
rev karen:And my reaction to that was that was Paul's answer.
rev karen:Right.
rev karen:Paul got an answer.
rev karen:I want my.
rev karen:And if God said that to Paul, it doesn't mean he's saying it to me.
rev karen:He might be, but he has to tell me that's Paul's answer.
rev karen:That means I can get an answer too.
rev karen:And that became the focus.
rev karen:So it was this constant kind of dialogue with the scriptures and God about okay.
rev karen:But, and you said this and you said this there, and you said this here.
rev karen:And so what about me?
rev karen:How.
rev karen:What are you gonna tell me?
rev karen:Hello and welcome to the Connectedness Podcast.
rev karen:Just as you might have guessed, I talk about connection and connectedness
rev karen:on this podcast, our connection with everything in the world around us.
rev karen:Whether you see it or not, we're all connected, and it doesn't matter if it's
rev karen:our dog, our cat, our God, our body.
rev karen:And I'll also talk about some more.
rev karen:Abstract connections like our career or our land, our community, our emotions,
rev karen:your body life is all about connection.
rev karen:So the sooner we recognize that, the sooner we can have an
rev karen:easier, more meaningful life.
rev karen:I will talk about these connections through different lenses.
rev karen:Things like synchronicities and coincidences are just.
rev karen:Everyday little bits of magic and miracles that we, we usually dismiss.
rev karen:It's really important that we pay attention to all of this so we can
rev karen:live an easier, more meaningful life.
rev karen:So welcome to the show.
rev karen:I'm your host, Karen Cleveland.
rev karen:Hello everyone.
rev karen:Welcome back to the show.
rev karen:I'm really excited today I have a guest.
rev karen:We're going to talk about some personal transformation through forgiveness and
rev karen:anger issues, and recognizing spiritual roots of physical and emotional symptoms.
rev karen:So let me introduce her.
rev karen:In European cloisters and Costa Rica's rainforest, pat Butler envisions a world
rev karen:where every Christ follower flourishes in the abundant life Jesus promised to
rev karen:do she has partnered with Inspire Arts Alliance and Greater Europe Mission.
rev karen:Cultivating a global network of artists through writing,
rev karen:mentoring, and spiritual formation.
rev karen:Currently, a full-time author, pat resides in South Florida where she walks with
rev karen:cranes, dodges, hurricanes, and enjoys her own pillow, which I fully appreciate.
rev karen:Welcome to the show, pat.
rev karen:Thank you, Karen.
rev karen:Yeah.
rev karen:Nothing like one zone pillow, right?
rev karen:Oh, I know.
rev karen:I would take it everywhere if I could.
rev karen:Yeah.
rev karen:So I really would love to talk about your newly released book collision
rev karen:where you talk about healing and deliverance, and I know it's a mi, a
rev karen:type of memoir about a personal car accident and what's happened since then.
rev karen:So can you tell us about that story?
rev karen:Yeah, sure.
rev karen:The story begins in 1985, so it's a long story, but the nuggets are
rev karen:I thought I'd break it down as an external story and an internal one.
rev karen:So the external is the facts of the accident.
rev karen:I was driving to a work assignment and I, I lived in har.
rev karen:Connecticut at Connecticut the time.
rev karen:Connecticut, okay.
rev karen:Okay.
rev karen:Yeah.
rev karen:So I was 33.
rev karen:I was living large.
rev karen:I kind of was coming into my own in adulthood with a good job, good
rev karen:circle of friends, loved the city, just kind of loving my life on
rev karen:the way to this work assignment.
rev karen:I have this accident, so I, it's rear ended.
rev karen:It was a hard hit on impact.
rev karen:The car seat broke off and I was flung back.
rev karen:But my knees caught on the steering wheel.
rev karen:So all like, every muscle and tendon and everything was just ripped
rev karen:all the way up my body into me.
rev karen:Oh my gosh.
rev karen:I could feel that.
rev karen:And oh my gosh I lost control of the car.
rev karen:I'm flying down this street, just, saying, God, don't let me hit
rev karen:anybody, or a tree or a child.
rev karen:You just, you're outta control, and anyway, I, the car eventually stopped.
rev karen:I ended up in the er, spinal trauma injuries, and you don't
rev karen:know anything at that point, right?
rev karen:First of all, you're in shock from the accident and you're sitting in a gurney,
rev karen:in an ER, wondering when somebody's gonna actually see you for hours.
rev karen:And I was just praying, God, do not let me be paralyzed.
rev karen:I don't even know how I'm injured.
rev karen:I was dazed, like I couldn't think properly, but I just had those
rev karen:primal prayers, God help me, heal me.
rev karen:Whatever's wrong, fix it.
rev karen:Help me.
rev karen:What time is it?
rev karen:When am I gonna be seen?
rev karen:Just it was like that, for hours.
rev karen:And and that, that was the story that led to the 12 year quest for
rev karen:healing, which collision records.
rev karen:So that's the before and end during kind of, and then the after is the,
rev karen:it was a 12 year journey, but of course I didn't know that at the time.
rev karen:Right.
rev karen:I was completely focused on get better, get back to normal as fast as possible.
rev karen:The, I left the hospital with the neck brace, the painkillers,
rev karen:the drugs, all the drugs, and.
rev karen:About 24 hours later, the shock wore off and the pain set in.
rev karen:Oh, and it was just a flat on my back nailed to the bed, screaming
rev karen:pain for days, weeks on end.
rev karen:And then they were turning into months.
rev karen:So it was that coping with a level of pain that it was paralyzing.
rev karen:Oh my God.
rev karen:All the time, just praying for healing.
rev karen:You had a support system with you at the time, like physical support, someone
rev karen:to help you, someone to help me, yeah.
rev karen:I had a roommate.
rev karen:Okay.
rev karen:Who really above and beyond Judy.
rev karen:Yeah.
rev karen:Took care of everything.
rev karen:She was awesome.
rev karen:She's mentioned in the book, my sidekick.
rev karen:I had, I was plugged into a church.
rev karen:They were a support group on that end.
rev karen:The, my employer was very encouraging.
rev karen:Told me, just take as long as you need file for disability so you
rev karen:can get some income right away.
rev karen:Yeah.
rev karen:Yeah I had a good support team, thank God.
rev karen:Yeah.
rev karen:Right.
rev karen:I had to call that the business appointment.
rev karen:I had to call that person like the next day and say, I didn't
rev karen:show up because, Oh, right.
rev karen:And she recommended her lawyer and her doctor.
rev karen:So I actually used her lawyer and the orthopedic surgeon that she had.
rev karen:So it, yeah it was great.
rev karen:How that flowed.
rev karen:I should mention in I was living in Connecticut at the time, Uhhuh,
rev karen:if there's personal injury in an accident a lawsuit is automatically
rev karen:filed for personal injury.
rev karen:Oh really?
rev karen:Yeah.
rev karen:Yeah.
rev karen:That's interesting.
rev karen:I know that.
rev karen:Yeah.
rev karen:But that became another whole journey.
rev karen:Oh, I'm sure.
rev karen:Yeah, I'm sure.
rev karen:So you're laying there in pain for months on end.
rev karen:Yeah.
rev karen:What, how did you get through that?
rev karen:What?
rev karen:I mean, I can't even imagine what that feels like.
rev karen:Yeah.
rev karen:Both mentally, spiritually, and physically of course.
rev karen:Right on every level.
rev karen:Yeah.
rev karen:I think the main things were music, listen to a lot of music.
rev karen:And the effort to get up even, it was hard to even get up and get breakfast.
rev karen:It would take me like, I would soak in a hot tub for a long time.
rev karen:I would put hot packs on and, try to, I couldn't really do stretches or anything,
rev karen:but just try to, Get everything moving enough to get up outta bed, take a shower.
rev karen:Wow, a bath, something, get the muscles loosened up, take the
rev karen:painkillers, get breakfast, go back to bed, get up for lunch and the,
rev karen:because the pa the drugs, first of all, the drugs are knocking me out.
rev karen:So for a couple of weeks I was just sleeping at o off the drugs all
rev karen:the time and then trying to get up.
rev karen:And take a hot bath, do those kinds of things.
rev karen:So it was real basic for a few weeks, and then it became a little bit easier in the
rev karen:sense of the drugs were taken effect, they were taking the edge off so I could get up
rev karen:and do those things a little more easier.
rev karen:Then it became a matter of managing the boredom because I did have
rev karen:to sometimes just lay flat so I couldn't read a book or watch tv and.
rev karen:And we, you like laying there, staring at the ceiling for days and
rev karen:that became prayer that just became interacting with God about what's
rev karen:happening, what's going to happen, all the questions, all the doubts.
rev karen:Remembering what I knew I was a student of the Bible at that point, very heavily.
rev karen:I had begun reading when I was in high school and.
rev karen:I had enough that I could pull things forward from memory that okay, I would
rev karen:say, you said this, so what about me?
rev karen:You healed these people.
rev karen:What about me?
rev karen:Right.
rev karen:Why aren't you, or what do you like?
rev karen:I don't know about you, but I was raised Catholic, I believe viewer too.
rev karen:From listen.
rev karen:Yeah, me too Podcast.
rev karen:Yeah.
rev karen:Yeah.
rev karen:So you have a kind of mindset, right.
rev karen:About healing and mine was, Okay.
rev karen:We know God does miracles and he did these things and he does
rev karen:these things occasionally, but basically it's your cross to bear.
rev karen:It's your thorn in the side or whatever.
rev karen:It's something to refine you and his grace is sufficient for you to endure this.
rev karen:And I heard all that and I knew all that, but I'm thinking,
rev karen:yeah, but yeah, but Right, right.
rev karen:I don't know, but what about me?
rev karen:Exactly.
rev karen:What about.
rev karen:Yeah.
rev karen:Yeah.
rev karen:And the passage that's often cited is Paul's thorn in the side and he
rev karen:asked to have it taken away and God said, no, my grace is sufficient.
rev karen:And so I was quoted that quite a bit.
rev karen:And my reaction to that was that was Paul's answer.
rev karen:Right.
rev karen:Paul got an answer.
rev karen:I want my.
rev karen:And if God said that to Paul, it doesn't mean he's saying it to me.
rev karen:He might be, but he has to tell me that's Paul's answer.
rev karen:That means I can get an answer too.
rev karen:And that became the focus.
rev karen:So it was this constant kind of dialogue with the scriptures and God about okay.
rev karen:But, and you said this and you said this there, and you said this here.
rev karen:And so what about me?
rev karen:How.
rev karen:What are you gonna tell me?
rev karen:Right?
rev karen:And what are you gonna tell me?
rev karen:And I never felt he said no to healing.
rev karen:That's the thing that kept me going.
rev karen:Okay.
rev karen:I didn't hear a yes, but I didn't hear a no.
rev karen:Yeah.
rev karen:So you still had hope.
rev karen:So I kept going.
rev karen:Yeah.
rev karen:Yeah.
rev karen:And then, so you said this was a 12 year journey.
rev karen:How did the events of this accident prepare you for a healing that came years?
rev karen:The pivot point was in about two years down the road I had
rev karen:discovered chiropractic, which got me much more functional.
rev karen:Okay.
rev karen:But it ne it didn't, I don't think it lasted more than a day
rev karen:before I was back in the pain.
rev karen:And I was trying to get back to work.
rev karen:So there was this whole thing about so much time and energy
rev karen:and everything was given to being functional and getting an income.
rev karen:So the first thing was, Job counseling.
rev karen:I thought I, I don't really enjoy my job and people have been great, but
rev karen:wouldn't it be better if I was in a job I loved and I looked forward to going
rev karen:to, that would help my overall health.
rev karen:Yeah.
rev karen:And what did I wanna do anyway?
rev karen:Right.
rev karen:That question I was, I had taken jobs they had been trained for, or just outta
rev karen:curiosity or desperation, all different reasons, but not really that this is
rev karen:what I'm here on this planet to do.
rev karen:This is what I was made for.
rev karen:I wanted to start looking for that.
rev karen:So I got job counseling partially for health reasons, but partially just for
rev karen:the internal story of, this is changing my life and I wanna get to my life.
rev karen:So what is it?
rev karen:Yeah.
rev karen:And the two things that popped up with that were arts and mission.
rev karen:Which resonated quite deeply with me cuz that was my inner core.
rev karen:And so that set me on a path to find another job that was in a design
rev karen:firm, which I absolutely loved.
rev karen:I felt like I found my people, I flourished in that job.
rev karen:Nice.
rev karen:I created it the position and proposed it to a company I wanted to work for.
rev karen:So it was really ideally perfect.
rev karen:Me.
rev karen:Yeah.
rev karen:So that took a lot of the edge off on the pain and then simultaneously
rev karen:involvement in my church.
rev karen:I was working with international communities and the opportunity came up
rev karen:to work at a camp in France, a Christian camp in France through my church.
rev karen:And when I heard that, my immediate reaction was, oh, I could do that.
rev karen:I could take a, yeah, I can give you my two week vacation
rev karen:to work at a camp in France.
rev karen:Why not?
rev karen:Yeah.
rev karen:But then I like felt immediately as if God was saying, will you?
rev karen:And then I thought yeah, I would, but I can't cuz I'm physically disabled now.
rev karen:I had a rating now of disability.
rev karen:And how am I gonna manage the pain?
rev karen:And it's a construction job.
rev karen:I can't do that.
rev karen:I don't have any money to do that.
rev karen:All these excuses bubbled up.
rev karen:And I recognized you're just giving excuses, will you?
rev karen:And I thought, yeah, okay, I will.
rev karen:And so I did that, found myself on this construction site at a camp in France.
rev karen:It was ridiculous.
rev karen:It was ridiculous.
rev karen:But there were, there was some very inter interesting.
rev karen:Ways that allowed me to get there, which I have in the book,
rev karen:but I won't go into right now.
rev karen:There I met people I fell in love with.
rev karen:We're still friends.
rev karen:We still see each other.
rev karen:And I also felt there that God was saying, I could use you here.
rev karen:Now, I wouldn't have recognized that as a call uhhuh necessarily.
rev karen:You know that, that's another thing from the Catholic mindset.
rev karen:The idea of a call.
rev karen:Yeah.
rev karen:Has to have thunder and lightning and neo, my, my categories for call
rev karen:were not, Hey, I could use you here.
rev karen:And then on the plane ride home, I felt like he said, let's.
rev karen:And then it felt like the plane shuttered and there was lightning
rev karen:and thunder, but there wasn't, it just felt like, holy mackel.
rev karen:I think that was a call.
rev karen:I love that.
rev karen:And it seemed like an invitation to play like at play in the fields of the Lord.
rev karen:That old film?
rev karen:Yeah.
rev karen:I thought, gosh.
rev karen:Fun.
rev karen:I have this idea of missions.
rev karen:You're in a jungle and you're eating bugs and it's not fun yet.
rev karen:But I had so much fun with this group of people at the camp, and
rev karen:I thought if I said no, I think I'd be missing out on something.
rev karen:I felt like my life would be diminished.
rev karen:I could say no.
rev karen:God was giving me the choice.
rev karen:Yeah, we could do.
rev karen:Come on, it'll be fun or nah, I don't think so.
rev karen:Which would've been fear-based.
rev karen:Yeah.
rev karen:And I, I just felt yeah, then I'll live this boring life at home.
rev karen:Even though it wasn't boring at the time, I just felt there'd be a diminished aspect
rev karen:to my life by not going and doing that.
rev karen:Not let me ask you real fast.
rev karen:So yeah, we're at this, let's go, which I love.
rev karen:Yeah.
rev karen:That's kind of a call.
rev karen:. Did you feel like your fear of life was any different after the accident?
rev karen:So like had you been called to do it before the accident,
rev karen:ver versus after the accident?
rev karen:Was there a difference?
rev karen:That's good question.
rev karen:Let me think about that a second.
rev karen:I felt drawn to it.
rev karen:Without thinking I'd ever actually be asked to do it.
rev karen:Okay.
rev karen:Surprise.
rev karen:And then when I was like, oh, wait a minute.
rev karen:But I did feel that draw to it.
rev karen:Okay.
rev karen:I can't remember if I felt that before the accident, but I, yes, I
rev karen:did, because, I had just worked at the Billy Graham Crusade in Hartford
rev karen:in 1985, and I absolutely loved it.
rev karen:I encountered God in a way that I rarely do, and when he left, I had the accident
rev karen:like two or three days after that crusade.
rev karen:Oh, interesting.
rev karen:Yeah, we had very interesting timing and I, on that car ride, I think I
rev karen:was thinking about, Because ever since it ended, I didn't want it to end.
rev karen:I wanted to do that the rest of my life.
rev karen:And I thought, what would it be?
rev karen:Like?
rev karen:What if you and joined, right, right.
rev karen:Okay.
rev karen:Yeah.
rev karen:But what if I did, you think you're gonna give up?
rev karen:So I was thinking on that level.
rev karen:And then there was some earlier childhood experiences.
rev karen:That fed into that.
rev karen:The one thing I'll mention was my uncle Leo was a missionary to Jamaica.
rev karen:He was a Jesuit priest.
rev karen:Okay.
rev karen:And taught in a school in Jamaica.
rev karen:And I knew him very briefly.
rev karen:He died when I was about 10, nine or 10 but he had made a marked impression
rev karen:on me cuz he was so kind and gentle.
rev karen:And he took an interest in me as the only girl in a family of four boys at the time.
rev karen:I think it was four boys let's say at least three and the fourth was coming.
rev karen:He took interest in me where I was getting lost in the crowd, and
rev karen:he spoken with God in a way that.
rev karen:I felt he knew God and how did he know God?
rev karen:And what did God look like and sound like?
rev karen:Like very childlike formation, right?
rev karen:What do you do for God?
rev karen:I'm a missionary.
rev karen:What's a missionary?
rev karen:That's someone who goes and talks about God.
rev karen:And I thought that must be the best job in the world.
rev karen:Yeah.
rev karen:So a lot of early influences there.
rev karen:There was that draw, but yeah.
rev karen:All right so you're on the plane and you hear, let's go.
rev karen:Yeah, let's go.
rev karen:So you go.
rev karen:I said, okay, the plane lands and I'm saying, what are we doing?
rev karen:Do I go in and quit my job?
rev karen:Or what does it look like to, let's go.
rev karen:Right.
rev karen:As it turned out, I was called into the office by the partners and it was
rev karen:apparent they were gonna be layoffs.
rev karen:Ah, they were probing me to see what my future plans were.
rev karen:Oh, you can be laid off soon.
rev karen:Cause the economy was bad.
rev karen:That's what happened.
rev karen:I was laid off and.
rev karen:And timing.
rev karen:The Sunday, I think I got home like a Thursday or Friday, the Sunday,
rev karen:the following Sunday when I went back to the church, the same couple that
rev karen:talked about the camp and invited volunteers to come over was there again.
rev karen:I froze the doorway, I guess.
rev karen:I said, oh boy, I'm in trouble.
rev karen:Right?
rev karen:So then after this service, I spoke to them again and said I just got back
rev karen:from the camp and they handed me an application to apply for full-time.
rev karen:I said, oh my gosh.
rev karen:Put it in the draw and said, this is moving way too fast, Lord, way too fast.
rev karen:Then I was laid off and I said, all right, pull it out of the drawer.
rev karen:Sign up.
rev karen:And I went.
rev karen:Yeah.
rev karen:Funny how that all happens so easily.
rev karen:Didn't it just it seems, when you look back as I wrote this book, I was like,
rev karen:so that's what happened to my life.
rev karen:At each stage it was very confusing and fast or slow.
rev karen:Yeah.
rev karen:I bet.
rev karen:But in retrospect, I thought, what a choreography.
rev karen:What an absolute choreography.
rev karen:Yeah.
rev karen:Right.
rev karen:Isn't that true?
rev karen:Yeah.
rev karen:Yeah.
rev karen:So through your healing process.
rev karen:So you talked about it, in the bio and in the notes about it, about
rev karen:forgiveness and some radical or some I've forgotten the word now,
rev karen:but controversial ideas about this.
rev karen:So yeah, what's that about?
rev karen:Yeah, the, I'll start slow and we'll build up to the whammy.
rev karen:The three surprises for me in this whole process was that
rev karen:the healing took 12 years.
rev karen:Because again, my mindset was you ask any answers and he gives
rev karen:you the thing you're asking for pretty quickly, not 12 years later.
rev karen:Right.
rev karen:So why, like, why, so a lot of why questions follow the healing.
rev karen:Yeah.
rev karen:I.
rev karen:That have been answered and so that, that process surprised me.
rev karen:The second thing was I didn't expect to run into the demonic in
rev karen:a way I had experiences perceiving something bad since childhood.
rev karen:Oh.
rev karen:Whether it was a situation or people, or an area a.
rev karen:Sometimes you get a creepy feeling.
rev karen:I don't know.
rev karen:Yeah.
rev karen:I don't know if this happens to everybody, but I'm very
rev karen:highly sensitive and perceptive.
rev karen:That's part of the I artist wiring, but also part of the, just the
rev karen:wiring, the way God made me was right to be highly sensitive.
rev karen:Yeah.
rev karen:And so I would pick up things that I didn't realize so much
rev karen:later, ev everybody doesn't.
rev karen:Right.
rev karen:But I would kind of perceive things around me or I would.
rev karen:A real creepy feeling about somebody and instinctively move away from them or drawn
rev karen:to someone or something, just felt very compelled to go in a certain direction.
rev karen:So I had that and then I had some people I encountered that had very
rev karen:bizarre behaviors that I didn't, I wouldn't have identified it
rev karen:as anything except that's weird.
rev karen:But in France, going out of your culture, then you're subjected
rev karen:to the bombardment of newness.
rev karen:Yeah.
rev karen:I encountered some things that I couldn't, I didn't have a category for.
rev karen:Oh.
rev karen:And I began to suspect, I was seeing something that the gospels
rev karen:described as demonic, and then I actually saw things that were right
rev karen:out of these stories that you read in the gospels or in acts, really.
rev karen:And I might be like, whoa, li I, I don't know what's demonic or not, but
rev karen:if that isn't, I don't know what is.
rev karen:And those things prepared me for the healing and deliverance I
rev karen:got by God, pointing out, I, I wanna be careful how I say this.
rev karen:I don't wanna give spoilers away for the book, but I wanna, and I don't wanna
rev karen:freak people out cause Right, right.
rev karen:I was freaked out.
rev karen:I will say I was freaked out but that led me to some categories.
rev karen:It was like God was building categories for me to receive what he was gonna
rev karen:give me and when I received it.
rev karen:I put two and two together and so the three things that maybe my biggest
rev karen:takeaway from being healed was the takeaway was look at the physical
rev karen:things you have to take care of.
rev karen:See a medical doctor, get medical treatment and take that off the plate.
rev karen:Oh, it's like diagnostic, right?
rev karen:Right.
rev karen:Take the physical things off the plate if you can.
rev karen:Right.
rev karen:Easily, quickly.
rev karen:Then you have emotional things to look.
rev karen:Are you in depression?
rev karen:Actually, I am.
rev karen:I was in depression quite a bit through the accident.
rev karen:Okay.
rev karen:W well, is it a I'll I'll hold that thought a minute and then look at the
rev karen:spiritual, and this was a medical doctor tell it, teaching this at a workshop.
rev karen:Look at the spiritual, including the demonic.
rev karen:Wow.
rev karen:And that one got me because I hadn't heard people talk about that like
rev karen:that before in regards to healing.
rev karen:Right.
rev karen:And he said, if you don't, this is like a three-legged stool that doesn't have
rev karen:a leg attached and it's gonna fall over and you may not get to your healing.
rev karen:So I was like, whew, okay.
rev karen:That's a dose to think about.
rev karen:I was in a five day conference.
rev karen:But that next day I trusted that doctor so much.
rev karen:He gave such a good testimony of his own life.
rev karen:And he was a doctor and he was teaching clearly, and they had
rev karen:prayer lines at the end of the day.
rev karen:And I said, I'm gonna go get prayer from him.
rev karen:And I went, and I said, I had, at that point, I had three
rev karen:herniated discs in my neck.
rev karen:So I should say the back situation was worsening through this whole period.
rev karen:Oh.
rev karen:So it's still from the accident.
rev karen:That's what, still from the accident.
rev karen:Okay.
rev karen:And I was back in the states to check with orthopedic people again.
rev karen:They were ready to fuse the vertebrae.
rev karen:Oh yeah.
rev karen:In my neck.
rev karen:And it had to get worse.
rev karen:And I thought, oh brother, it's so bad now.
rev karen:How could you're gonna wait?
rev karen:But I, at the other extreme, I said, I left the office saying,
rev karen:no, I'm not getting that surgery.
rev karen:That's too radical.
rev karen:Oh, so I had three herniated discs.
rev karen:I went to him for prayer and said, I had this car accident, three herniated discs.
rev karen:Can you pray for me?
rev karen:And he said, the game changing question.
rev karen:Did you forgive the person who hit you in the accident?
rev karen:Oh, wow.
rev karen:And I knew Karen in my soul of souls.
rev karen:I knew that was the key.
rev karen:To the whole thing.
rev karen:And I, I started thinking back and I thought, I think I did.
rev karen:And I'm trying to remember.
rev karen:And he's like, take your time.
rev karen:And I said I think I did.
rev karen:And he said, let's make sure.
rev karen:And he started praying and I just, I was just kind of mulling it over.
rev karen:I think I did, because that man who hit me called me the next day.
rev karen:He was so apologetic.
rev karen:He was distraught that he Yeah.
rev karen:Had done this.
rev karen:And he called, how am I, do I need anything?
rev karen:And I said, no I mean, I have help.
rev karen:And I don't know if I forgave him in the moment where I didn't
rev karen:really feel I had to forgive him.
rev karen:Right.
rev karen:So anyway, that prayer happened a few minutes, and I went back to my seat
rev karen:and I thought, huh, that's the key.
rev karen:I don't know how or why, but that's the key.
rev karen:The next day I had two experiences.
rev karen:One was in the hallway where I had just come out of a
rev karen:workshop and everything is on.
rev karen:Everything.
rev karen:I don't even know what I'm doing there because I can't figure anything out.
rev karen:And I'm thick.
rev karen:I'm thick too
rev karen:Nuk.
rev karen:Oh, that's funny.
rev karen:But as I'm walking to the cafeteria, I have this episode
rev karen:of like reliving a situation.
rev karen:That was the lawyer's meeting.
rev karen:I was called in to meet with the.
rev karen:My lawyer was taking me to meet the other lawyer for the insurance company.
rev karen:Okay.
rev karen:And it was attack after attack on my character to defraud me of any claims.
rev karen:Oh, it was ugly.
rev karen:Oh my gosh.
rev karen:It was ugly.
rev karen:And I got furious in the meeting and said to my lawyer,
rev karen:do we have to stand for this?
rev karen:Let's go.
rev karen:And he said, sit down, chill out.
rev karen:Oh my gosh.
rev karen:This formal.
rev karen:And I, we had to take a break.
rev karen:I had to cool down.
rev karen:We had to go through it again.
rev karen:And I remember I was like feeling that fury again.
rev karen:And the Lord said, what did you do with that anger?
rev karen:And I realized I hadn't done a thing with it.
rev karen:It was living with me for Okay.
rev karen:Since that incident, which, before the healing, maybe
rev karen:six years before the healing.
rev karen:Wow.
rev karen:There's a verse in Ephesians that says, do not let the sun go down on your anger.
rev karen:Do not give the enemy a foothold.
rev karen:Right.
rev karen:Wow.
rev karen:And I thought, wow, I've given, and that played in my mind, and I thought
rev karen:I've given that enemy six years.
rev karen:Right.
rev karen:Not only to gain foothold.
rev karen:What else has he done?
rev karen:I went into dinner, I didn't say a word to anyone.
rev karen:I was like, wow, that was a very visceral almost out of
rev karen:body experience in the hallway.
rev karen:So I was kind of recuperating, not, probably not even eating very much.
rev karen:And then we went into the closing session and I went back to that doctor.
rev karen:We had a fantastic experience of God's presence in.
rev karen:Final session, the worship leader would, was bringing a song she had
rev karen:written during the workshop and it took the roof off the house almost.
rev karen:It felt literally like that was happening.
rev karen:And it was a heart cry from everybody in that room.
rev karen:There was probably 400 people.
rev karen:The words to the song where, give me your heart, God, I want to know you.
rev karen:And to hear 400 people crying that out, people were there for healing,
rev karen:for deliverance kinds of things, and everybody's just crying out.
rev karen:And we had seen healings in that group over the previous three or four days.
rev karen:So there was hope, there was expectation.
rev karen:Everybody's crying out.
rev karen:I'm crying out.
rev karen:And the, it just came to a pitch and I felt like God.
rev karen:Physically touching me, just like praying, like putting hands on
rev karen:me and praying for me and moving through the crowd doing that.
rev karen:And this worship and praise is going on.
rev karen:And then and we got to this point, I felt we are gonna explode.
rev karen:If he doesn't withdraw, we're gonna explode.
rev karen:Why?
rev karen:I felt like an Indiana Jones movie.
rev karen:That must have been Very powerful, the most powerful experience I've ever had.
rev karen:And then that, that ended and everybody rushed forward for prayer.
rev karen:They had the prayer teams up front and I went with them and
rev karen:I looked for that doctor cuz I, I thought I gotta get to him.
rev karen:I went to him, he started praying for him.
rev karen:I said, here's what happened since last night.
rev karen:You prayed for me.
rev karen:I believe forgiveness is the healing.
rev karen:God stopped me in the hallway earlier and told me about this anger, and
rev karen:so I had to confess that and forgive this man who, this lawyer Yeah.
rev karen:And my own lawyer who then told me the settlement and it was right way below
rev karen:what I was gonna need financially.
rev karen:Oh.
rev karen:And I got mad at him because he dismissed me as someone who's trying to get money.
rev karen:And I, again, I blew up and God said, what did you do with that anger?
rev karen:So I, it was a combination of anger and then forgiving those two lawyers.
rev karen:I told him all that and I said, what else do I need to do?
rev karen:And he said I think you done it all.
rev karen:So he starts praying and that's when I had this very visceral, again, very physical,
rev karen:emotional, psychological experience of.
rev karen:Something emerging out of me, and the only way I could describe it is
rev karen:spirits were coming out of my spine.
rev karen:And one was anger, one was sadness and one was grief.
rev karen:Wow.
rev karen:And I was right back in the moment of that accident
rev karen:, this is where I wanna say, I think you need to read the book.
rev karen:Okay.
rev karen:Because I go into it, I think it's easier to read and have a little
rev karen:distance from me telling the story Okay.
rev karen:Than go into it.
rev karen:But I, it was such a, an overwhelming experience physically, and I
rev karen:felt like things were coming out that were some of the strongest
rev karen:feelings through the 12 years.
rev karen:The anger, the sadness.
rev karen:Yeah.
rev karen:Which I think now just telling you was the depression.
rev karen:And grief because I couldn't figure out what the difference was
rev karen:said between sadness and grief.
rev karen:I think it must have been the depression.
rev karen:Oh, I see.
rev karen:Now that I think about it.
rev karen:Yeah.
rev karen:I see.
rev karen:And those had been the predominant emotions on the
rev karen:inside story and those left.
rev karen:And then another wave started where I felt like the chiropractor was there adjusting
rev karen:my spine all the way up realigning.
rev karen:And you're like, I could feel myself getting physically
rev karen:straighter, and I fell over.
rev karen:Wow.
rev karen:I just fell over because I couldn't even take it.
rev karen:I was like, what is going on?
rev karen:What is going on?
rev karen:But that was my cognitive mind.
rev karen:My spirit knew I had just been healed and delivered.
rev karen:I knew that.
rev karen:I could not make my mind understand that, but wow, that's powerful.
rev karen:So powerful.
rev karen:All right, so we'll say, read the book to, to know exactly how that story is.
rev karen:But you, like sometimes you compare this journey to a treasure
rev karen:hunt and that you found the obviously the treasure of healing.
rev karen:But can you talk about what else you might have found and how you others
rev karen:can seek this treasure as, Yeah.
rev karen:I would I made a list of things and then I wanna kind of tear up the list
rev karen:and say, the real treasure was finding certain scriptures that spoke immediately,
rev karen:directly and accurately to my situation.
rev karen:Whether it was at day 30 or two years, or, okay.
rev karen:80 years.
rev karen:There were these words where I would get to a brick wall.
rev karen:I didn't know how to go on.
rev karen:And God would just somehow bring a verse through different
rev karen:means and it was like, boom.
rev karen:There's your answer for right now.
rev karen:Yeah.
rev karen:It's not the yes, I'm going to heal you, answer it's this and it.
rev karen:And it was like, okay.
rev karen:Okay.
rev karen:So hope comes back.
rev karen:Perseverance came back and I just keep going to the next.
rev karen:And I would say I can't do this.
rev karen:I don't know what to do.
rev karen:I don't wanna give up because if I give up, I'm disabled the rest of my life.
rev karen:Yeah.
rev karen:Right.
rev karen:And then this ward would come, but I will say in addition to that
rev karen:completely changed my entire life.
rev karen:That healing in Vermont.
rev karen:That was in Vermont.
rev karen:Okay.
rev karen:And I returned to France.
rev karen:Like, the reformed smoker, I'm gonna heal everybody.
rev karen:I know what to do.
rev karen:Now we just gotta look at these three areas and we'll figure it out.
rev karen:And I went back with some tools that I had gained from the
rev karen:different people I had learned from.
rev karen:And I, I wanted to just do that focus on healing and deliverance, but I
rev karen:was getting some further emotional healings in that next year or two.
rev karen:And that was adding a lot of texture to my understanding of healing.
rev karen:Oh, and I wanted to work specifically then in interior healings.
rev karen:Inner healings, we would call them.
rev karen:And I also, in doing that myself, going through that myself, all
rev karen:these creative gifts came out.
rev karen:And so I wanted to go into the arts now full-time, uhhuh, and here was the merge
rev karen:of that job, counseling, arts, admission.
rev karen:I wanna do the arts in mission.
rev karen:That had not been spoken about too much before and I had a hard time connecting
rev karen:with people, but it, but I did and that revamped my entire ministry.
rev karen:I moved, I actually left France, moved back to the states to join
rev karen:a ministry that was doing that.
rev karen:Okay.
rev karen:And I could go on and on, but we'll do the 12 point list another day.
rev karen:Talking about the Bible verses, I think.
rev karen:When I, need something, it's like when I need to know that there.
rev karen:There is something from God on this.
rev karen:Yeah, the Bible is always good.
rev karen:Always has some kind of promise or some kind of Yeah.
rev karen:Verse too.
rev karen:I love looking up the Bible promises and I mean I have some on my wall.
rev karen:I'm not gonna read em right now, but just to remind me, cuz we get
rev karen:into ourselves into the daily life and it's like, no, this is eternal..
rev karen:I'm, I am in the daily grind of something right now, but there's
rev karen:an eternal promise about this.
rev karen:Right?
rev karen:Right.
rev karen:And Jesus talked about its treasure hidden in a field.
rev karen:It is hidden and it takes digging and work and allies and books and conferences.
rev karen:It takes everything to get that, get that thing and then
rev karen:it's the Pearl of Great Price.
rev karen:Another story he told.
rev karen:Right.
rev karen:Yeah.
rev karen:Right.
rev karen:Yeah, that's true.
rev karen:That's true.
rev karen:Go ahead.
rev karen:No.
rev karen:I I was just gonna ask, so how would you wrap this up for someone, what
rev karen:is theirs, if they're struggling with any of this, and we haven't
rev karen:talked at all about your writing or your poetry or anything of that.
rev karen:You were just getting to some of your artists' work, but how,
rev karen:what would you say to someone if they're dealing with something,
rev karen:what would be their first steps?
rev karen:To find their healing.
rev karen:Yeah, I think I propose three things that I can provide.
rev karen:And then the overall is the endurance and the asking, asking
rev karen:God, what's his word for me?
rev karen:The connections.
rev karen:Yeah.
rev karen:Connected podcast, the connections.
rev karen:, if you're suffering.
rev karen:On any level, mental, emotional, physical, look at the connections between that
rev karen:affliction and any forgiveness issue in your life that you might have to do.
rev karen:Look at the connections between that affliction and any way the
rev karen:enemy might have gotten a foothold, uhhuh, and try to close those doors.
rev karen:And then, Persist.
rev karen:Like, do not give up.
rev karen:Do not give up.
rev karen:Find the hope.
rev karen:And I would say, look for it in the treasures that are hidden in the Bible.
rev karen:And those words, the promises are there, but they also have
rev karen:to apply to you in your moment.
rev karen:Yeah.
rev karen:So look for them, dig for them, search 'em out.
rev karen:Don't just like, it's very hard to read the Bible.
rev karen:Right.
rev karen:We can really get like, oh yeah, forget this, but don't give up on that.
rev karen:Yeah.
rev karen:Dig in there.
rev karen:Get help from other people in YouTubes and all the resources we have.
rev karen:Yeah.
rev karen:Find the help and don't give up.
rev karen:Don't give up.
rev karen:Now on the website, there's a I'm preparing, this is my next manuscript I
rev karen:mentioned The Hero's Journey in Collision.
rev karen:The Collision book.
rev karen:Okay.
rev karen:And so the Hero's Journey was a framework.
rev karen:It's actually a literary structure to frame a good story.
rev karen:And there's 12 stages for the hero to go through to get the object.
rev karen:Location to my life.
rev karen:In retrospect, I just lived through my hero's journey.
rev karen:I didn't have language to put to it.
rev karen:Right.
rev karen:But the hero's journey gave me that language.
rev karen:And if you set yourself into a story, not a theological framework,
rev karen:much easier to access, it's much easier to access a story.
rev karen:Approach to God, a relational approach.
rev karen:And say, where are we in the story?
rev karen:If you're suffering now you're probably in one, right?
rev karen:Where you don't know what's going on.
rev karen:You have a lot of questions.
rev karen:You don't understand the connection between spirituality and physical
rev karen:healing or mental torment.
rev karen:These are all connections that are played up very well out of
rev karen:Hollywood in films and true books.
rev karen:True.
rev karen:Right.
rev karen:Right.
rev karen:So you get language like threshold guardians and opponents, allies finding
rev karen:the elixir return with the elixir.
rev karen:What do you have to bring back when you come back from your journey?
rev karen:How do you obtain that object of your desire?
rev karen:So if you will bear with me and wait for the next book, there's glimmers.
rev karen:On the on my website and in collision of, here's a way to frame this in the
rev karen:immediate, I have a a small booklet I put together on a forgiveness process
rev karen:that I see as necessary to really get to full and complete healing forgiveness.
rev karen:Good.
rev karen:I was gonna ask you about forgiveness.
rev karen:Yeah.
rev karen:Yeah.
rev karen:So if you are readers or listen and or listeners.
rev karen:Go to my Instagram account, they can get that for free.
rev karen:That's a free downloadable booklet.
rev karen:And it's only on your Instagram?
rev karen:It may be on my website.
rev karen:My website's under construction.
rev karen:Okay.
rev karen:I'm gonna check my, I'm actually working with my designer now to
rev karen:make that it should be available if you sign up for the email list.
rev karen:If it's not, you can go to the contact page on my website and send me a note and
rev karen:I'll send it to anyone who asks for it.
rev karen:The website is mythic monastery.org and the Instagram is at
rev karen:mythic underscore monastery.
rev karen:Okay, wonderful.
rev karen:So there, there's beginning steps in collision.
rev karen:I have some appendices in there that there are some beginning ways to
rev karen:frame the whole thing in your mind, but I know when you're in screaming
rev karen:pain, you don't want the words you wanna, you want something different.
rev karen:But that's there for, that's true.
rev karen:Who?
rev karen:You can, if anyone wants to contact me directly I would willingly
rev karen:give, a half hour interview to see if there's something we can come
rev karen:up with as a plan or an answer.
rev karen:And that's through my website too.
rev karen:There's a contact page there.
rev karen:Nice.
rev karen:And I'll of course put these links on.
rev karen:The show notes page on my podcast page as well, so mythic monastery.org.
rev karen:Mythic monastery.
rev karen:Yeah.
rev karen:I think that's a fantastic name.
rev karen:I love that.
rev karen:Yeah.
rev karen:Mythic for the stories and monastery for the inner work that it takes.
rev karen:Yeah.
rev karen:The inner work.
rev karen:I am very grateful to have you talk with me today, and I'm sure
rev karen:my listeners will be grateful at.
rev karen:It's fascinating story, fascinating work that you're doing, and.
rev karen:Yeah.
rev karen:Going off to France like that, when you did that must have been yeah.
rev karen:Quite a journey.
rev karen:So do you ever look back and say why to God do you ask God?
rev karen:Why, what?
rev karen:You know it it's been many years since it'll all started, right
rev karen:since the accident until now.
rev karen:And you probably have, looking back, it's always easier to see what was
rev karen:laid out and what happened, but yeah.
rev karen:Yeah, it really came into sharp focused writing collision.
rev karen:Okay.
rev karen:Because I didn't really intend to write that book and it, and when I
rev karen:brought the original manuscript came out of a letter I wrote to someone
rev karen:about the healing right after I had it, cuz I wanted to record it in detail.
rev karen:I didn't wanna, I didn't trust my memory to remember all the details.
rev karen:Yeah.
rev karen:I sent this tiny little, it wasn't even a manuscript to a publisher, and
rev karen:they said, oh, yeah, we'll take this.
rev karen:The editor pushed me to go into childhood and see there had to be
rev karen:roots to this whole event, and I was, no it was an accident, right, right.
rev karen:Random.
rev karen:Now there's something more there.
rev karen:So she kept pushing me to dig.
rev karen:Oh, in doing that digging, I saw this kind of overarching story arc in my life.
rev karen:In retrospect, huh.
rev karen:And I, I ended many.
rev karen:Your writing day last.
rev karen:That was in the pandemic, just sitting on the couch saying wow.
rev karen:I had no idea there was so much meticulous placement of people
rev karen:and experiences and books.
rev karen:Events.
rev karen:It, it, in retrospect, it looks meticulously timed out.
rev karen:Okay.
rev karen:In a moment, it looked like chaos.
rev karen:And you'll talk about how we do this in your new book, right?
rev karen:How we can look at our own story like that.
rev karen:Yeah.
rev karen:Yeah.
rev karen:Collision is the story.
rev karen:Your story.
rev karen:Yeah, the upcoming book will be to the audience.
rev karen:Your story now.
rev karen:Yeah.
rev karen:Here's it.
rev karen:I'll do a some little bridge between collision and this, and then
rev karen:say, now you enter in stage one.
rev karen:Is this what?
rev karen:What is your stage one look like?
rev karen:That would be called ordinary World.
rev karen:What is your ordinary world like?
rev karen:Where is the dissatisfaction that's kind of nudging you to do something
rev karen:else, or what's the event like?
rev karen:An accident that catapults you into something else?
rev karen:And then Wow.
rev karen:Okay.
rev karen:Page two is, yeah, so I'm taking it stage by stage.
rev karen:Yeah.
rev karen:You can get the framework for on my website that's in the
rev karen:resources on the hero's journey.
rev karen:You can see the spiritual connections I make to the literary stages.
rev karen:Right, right.
rev karen:And when are you expecting to have the new manuscript then released it, it sounds
rev karen:like it's still in the very beginning stages, so it's gonna be a couple years.
rev karen:For the next one?
rev karen:No.
rev karen:Cause I've taught this as a curriculum for 10 years, so the material is there.
rev karen:Okay.
rev karen:I'm just reshaping it from curriculum into book form.
rev karen:Okay.
rev karen:Okay.
rev karen:And I am hoping by next year, it'll be maybe next year,
rev karen:maybe a year from now, be out.
rev karen:Yeah.
rev karen:Yeah.
rev karen:Yeah, I'd love to go through that personal journey and so definitely
rev karen:I'll check out the resources on the website and Instagram.
rev karen:Yeah.
rev karen:Anyway, so before we wrap up for Good, anything else you want everyone to know?
rev karen:Is there anything you think everyone should really know
rev karen:about life or about God or.
rev karen:Yeah.
rev karen:Gosh, so many things I could yet say, but I'll boil it down to I,
rev karen:I'd really like everyone who hears this to know God does want to heal.
rev karen:He is all about healing.
rev karen:He is.
rev karen:Trying to heal you.
rev karen:He is trying to heal everybody.
rev karen:Yeah.
rev karen:And there's a war going on to prevent, to try to keep you from that healing.
rev karen:And I don't wanna put it into any nice phrases or slogans.
rev karen:It's war to me.
rev karen:It's all out war.
rev karen:But you have got God fighting on your behalf to try to get you to your healing.
rev karen:Go get it.
rev karen:Find your healing.
rev karen:Jesus said, if you wanna find your life, you'll lose it.
rev karen:But if you lose your life, for my sake, you'll find it.
rev karen:That's what I found was my life, the one he intended, not the
rev karen:one I was creating for myself.
rev karen:So find the treasure.
rev karen:It's a hero's journey, but you've got God on your side.
rev karen:Yeah.
rev karen:And persevere.
rev karen:Don't give up even when everybody.
rev karen:These final pronouncements, like disability.
rev karen:You have a disability.
rev karen:That's all the money you're getting all these pronouncements.
rev karen:That's okay.
rev karen:Human wisdom.
rev karen:Human answers, human whatever.
rev karen:Right, right.
rev karen:Let's go see what God says.
rev karen:Right.
rev karen:I love that God's on your side.
rev karen:Yeah.
rev karen:God's on your side.
rev karen:Yeah.
rev karen:I love that.
rev karen:Wants you to be healed.
rev karen:He has.
rev karen:He has a name Jehovah Rafa, which means the Lord who heals you.
rev karen:He sent Jesus who healed left and right.
rev karen:Not everybody, which is another whole subject.
rev karen:But let him tell you, if he's not gonna heal you, let him tell you why.
rev karen:Yeah.
rev karen:Yeah.
rev karen:And his character is compassion and he yeah.
rev karen:Yeah.
rev karen:Get to know him.
rev karen:Yeah.
rev karen:I love that.
rev karen:Thank you.
rev karen:Yeah.
rev karen:You're welcome.
rev karen:All right.
rev karen:Yeah.
rev karen:Again, thank you so much for being here and I.
rev karen:Look forward to, again, all the resources that you have a avail
rev karen:available, your books and such.
rev karen:And I just wanna say goodbye to my listeners.
rev karen:Thank you for being here and hope to connect later.
rev karen:Bye-bye.
rev karen:If you enjoyed the show, don't forget to head over to rev karen podcast.com.
rev karen:That's R E V K A R E N podcast.com.
rev karen:There you're gonna find the tools for finding more meaning
rev karen:and happiness in your own life.
rev karen:Plus, if you have a story that you want to share with me, either on or off the
rev karen:air, be sure to look for that form.
rev karen:Make sure you follow me so you get notified when new episodes drop.
rev karen:And also I'd love to connect with you and my Facebook group
rev karen:Connectedness with Rev, Karen.
rev karen:So head over to rev podcast.com.
