Safe to say that the most common expression used to describe the current state of Name-Image-Likeness and college sports is “it’s the Wild West.” Which, in reality, may actually do a disservice to the wild west. There’s no way that period could be as nuts as this one…

Clearly NIL has completely upended college sports. In doing so, it’s produced a fabulously dynamic environment for new businesses that claim to have solutions for this burgeoning marketplace. In that sense, it really is a lot like the wild west and its accompanying Gold Rush.

But what sometimes gets lost in the frenzy to capitalize on NIL is that this entire market is being built on the back of very young adults, the vast majority of whom are away from home for the first time in their lives, and who lack a support network to make sure their interests are protected and their approach to NIL is sound.

Enter Stephen Bienko and 42U. A former college athlete himself, Bienko took a look at what was happening with NIL and recognized the vulnerability of these young athletes. So he launched 42U, which has a goal of giving athletes the tools and support they need to build their brands, recognize their authentic selves, and prepare themselves for life after their playing careers.

In our conversation, Bienko dives into both his athletic background and his entrepreneurial journey. We discuss the launch of 42U, their partnership with the Big 10, and what he believes is missing in the current NIL environment.

The former New Jersey State Trooper will also reveal his most memorable traffic stop.

ABOUT THIS PODCAST

The Sports Business Conversations podcast is a production of ADC Partners, a sports marketing agency that specializes in creating, managing, and evaluating effective partnerships between brands and sports. All rights reserved.

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Dave Almy brings over 30 years of sports marketing and sports business experience to his role as host of the "1-on-1: Sports Business Conversations" podcast. Dave is the co-Founder of ADC Partners.

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Stephen, you know, I read your bio. You know, I got the materials to start right now. Well, your team was kind enough to send over some stuff. And the first thing I get out of reading about you is that you are kind of an inveterate entrepreneur. Like this is something that you've been doing for a while, right? You sold nutritional supplements to student athletes. You had a moving company franchise. You've launched 42U, which we'll get into, obviously. So I'm curious as we get started. What lessons do you think you've learned from all this entrepreneurial experience that you've had growing up and getting to this point that you feel like are playing an important role for you now as 42U really starts to get rolling?

Well, there's a couple of different ways I can run with that. Go,

Go, take them all. You're a former decathlete, so I'm no surprise that you're going to run a bunch.

so I'm no surprise that you're going to run a bunch. That kind of lines up to what you just said. It's kind of a jack of many, master of none. I think that's what's really happened to me being a decathlete. But I think early on in life, I was always drawn to building. My father is an entrepreneur. He's a pharmacist by trade, but he took that and ran with it. He didn't. He didn't lock himself up with corporate pharmacy or the big brands or in a hospital. He kind of ran by himself. Created his own thing. He created his own thing. Started small pharmacies and built himself a nice little thing.

think that's

his own thing. He

But I think me being a Gen X kid, I was always building. It goes back to building forts in the woods, breaking down BMX bikes and rebuilding them and doing the same things for dirt bikes and building skateboarding ramps.

Um, you know, but I think that also encouraged me in the decathlon and track and field. Right. And every day you're just adding one brick, another brick. And then in business, if it was selling supplements early on when nobody was even thinking about that, because I had this crazy, wacky psycho pharma dad that was. into that world and I was sort of first to market. And here I am selling these things. People thought I was selling drugs, like honestly, but I would put these. This guy's selling drugs out of his dorm room.

selling drugs out of his dorm room. The thing is they're wicked good for you.

is they're wicked good for you. And it actually really worked. And so I think that kind of led me into all of this in the entrepreneurial world, right? But the lessons, I think the biggest lesson is that execution beats ideas. Right. Just like in sports where hard work and focus trumps talent at the end of the day.

Boy, I've had the number of kinds I've had the conversation of you can have all the talent in the world, but the number of things that have to go right for you to be successful, that boils down to the things like it's almost hard to quantify for. Right. You know, the the will and the the the ability to bounce back. Right. You know, those similar to mental fortitude type things. It's such a great way to look at that idea of being an entrepreneur.

I've had the number of

It is. And, you know, it's the same things that we should start looking at entrepreneurs or if you're talking to, you know, investors about what companies they're interested in. Right. Maybe start evaluating the same way we need to start evaluating athletes, right? It's more than just the cool idea or how many stars the athletes have or what their 40 time is or, you know, how tall they are in basketball. A lot more goes into it when you're betting on them and who's going to be successful in the end.

the end. The number of times I've heard successful funders say you buy people, not ideas. Right. You know, she's like, what's the track record of success that that person's have? What's their grit? What's their ability to execute look like? Because you're right. Like it says, you know, ideas are a dime a dozen, but you know, that's where the rubber really hits the road is execution. And who is going to trust others,

is going to trust others, right? That's a big part about, about athletics is you're taught, you have to be able to trust all the people around you, whether you like them or not. Right. You could not like that guy on your team. But when you're part of the team and you're in that locker room, you just trust. And I think on the business side, what you just mentioned is that, hey, can that slick talking or great idea entrepreneur actually work with others once we infuse our capital and we bring some of our knowledgeable people around?

I think on the

is that, hey, can that slick

work with others once we infuse our capital and we bring some of our knowledgeable people around? Are they going to be able to trust what other people's ideas are bringing to the table?

It's such an important point you bring up, too, because I've heard this also a lot is the idea of looking at athletes for hiring or for funding because they are use and bring the soft set of skills to the table that people who didn't compete, even at, you know, like division three level, like like some of us that, you know, they don't have right that ability to work with people in a capacity ability to. time managed because, I mean, I don't know if a lot of people know this, but like time management for division one athletes is next level to be able to have to figure out. It's incomprehensible. It is. It is. The pulls on your time are extreme. So talk about that a little bit from your position as a founder, what your athletic experience brings to the table for you in addition to some of the things we just talked about. Like what's the distinction point for you as a founder that your athletic background really separates you?

to have to figure out. It's incomprehensible. It is.

Well, it's a really cool question. I'm not going to dive in too much because I can go down the rabbit hole talking about 42U right now and why we really created that. Because you're just touched upon it, right? And that we're abstracting these true transferable skills that are based upon psychological evaluations. But for me, being a student athlete.

Because you're just touched upon it, right? And

I think it really teaches you how to operate under pressure, right? Because you can be the smartest one in the room, you can be the fastest in the room, you can be the most well -read in the room, but when the pressure is on and you have to perform your best when the outcome really matters.

well -read in the room,

but when the pressure

you have to perform your best when the outcome really matters. And I think the second to that is failure is a big part of being in business and being in sport,

I think the second to that is failure is

a big part of being in business and being in sport,

a big part of being in business and being in sport,

right? And failure in sport is just part of the training.

And failure in sport is just part of the training.

And go back to the great quotes by Michael Jordan about failure, about Steph Curry, about failure. And I think non -athletes really kind of struggle with that when building a business because they've got this brilliant idea.

go back to the great quotes

by Michael Jordan about

I think non -athletes really kind of struggle with that when building a business because they've got this brilliant idea. And it could be wonderful. But like anything else,

idea.

it could be wonderful. But like anything else, you could be a superstar athlete, but you are going to run into challenges. And how are you going to respond when that pressure is on? Just like the national championship in college football, which is Miami, Indiana, both great teams. What's it going to come down to? Which team performs the best under the most amount of pressure of any of those student athletes?

national championship in college football, which is Miami, Indiana,

to? Which team performs the best under the

amount of pressure of any of those student athletes? Well, at least most of them are student athletes. Some have been in school for seven years. That's a whole separate.

amount of pressure of any of those student athletes?

That's a whole separate. We're getting another podcast discussion that we're going to get out of. That was so funny,

that we're going to get out of. That was so funny, Carson Beck, and this really young reporter asked me the other day. And she said something about going to class. And he just looked up and he goes, go to class. Graduated two years ago. It was just hilarious. He was so honest about it. But I mean, this is the kid's seventh year. But I think, you know, we're going to see who comes out victorious in this game is who performs the best on the pressure.

it. But I

performs the best on the pressure. And for young budding entrepreneurs, that's a tough thing if you haven't been around that. And that shapes. I know that shapes how I build teams, how I make decisions, how I think long -term business, right? And it isn't that different from sports and when the stakes are real. So let's talk about,

talk about, I feel like we're sort of organically driving towards the founding of 42U because there's so much of the basis of what we're talking about here is sort of laying the foundational pieces for what I think led you there. But let's talk about that for a minute. What led to the founding of 42U? What were you seeing in the market that made you feel like, you know, there's a solution that needs to be provided here. And I think I'm the guy to do it. I've got the idea and the ability to execute on it. Utter chaos. Pretty much. Two words that describe college sports right now. College sports.

And so. I saw that massive gap between opportunity and student athletes being prepared. And NIL just kind of set the stage, right? That's the punch that came in and shattered everything that is college sports. And when that shattering happened and the glass broke in thousands and thousands of pieces, that created opportunity for business. And right there, that's when I saw it because I always knew coming through as an athlete.

just kind of set

That's the punch that came

that shattering happened and the glass broke in

created opportunity for

it's so hard to crack into the sports world as a business. I don't care if it's college sports. Shoot, I don't care if it's high school sports. It's tough to crack into a high school to get your business into a high school, whether it's a private school or you got to go through the board of education and crack that open to get your business. That's next to impossible. And college sports is... that good old boys network and girls network just as much. And so when NIL came in, it smashed it to bits. And so then there became opportunity and I saw that. And I saw the NIL giving the athletes freedom, but very little structure. And that's where poor decisions and wasted potential begin to show up. So I saw that as an opportunity, but I think what I kept seeing was this incredible talent.

school to get your business into

got to go through the board of education and crack that open to get your business. That's next to impossible. And college sports is...

saw that as an opportunity, but I think what I kept seeing was this incredible talent.

Without the environment or the tools to develop it in a changing market. I love, I don't know if you read Adam Grant. I love Adam Grant. I think he's one of the most brilliant behavioral psychologists there are. And in his book, Hidden Potential, he talks about how success isn't about raw ability.

the environment or the tools to develop it in a changing market. I love, I don't know if you read Adam Grant. I

Success is about character skills, decision -making, and the systems that are created around you. And so NIL created this opportunity. But it didn't have the development process. And so 42 was built to kind of close that gap. It's interesting from the standpoint,

interesting from the standpoint, and I really appreciate you saying in the image of the glass breaking in a million pieces being shattered. It did. I think sometimes people fail to realize it really kind of happened overnight. And you had a bunch of college athletes who were used to one system and the way they had to perform in the system, which which they had to do that disappeared overnight. And they had to adapt to an entirely new system. And, you know, you forget, like these are 18 and 19 year old people. And I'm thinking about myself as an 18 and 19 year old person, not ready to adapt to that level of change, responsibility and opportunity. So then can you provide so when you think about the crazy experience of the Dave Almeys back in the day, if I had been subject to that, what does 42U do for those students? Like, can you provide an overview? And then what's the benefit that 42U provides to athletic departments and student athletes?

So I think we kind of hit where, you know, there's an old saying that success is, you know, when opportunity fuses with luck. And I think we're very lucky. We're very lucky that this glass started to break. We're also very lucky that we are in. We're in the horseradish, as Malcolm Gladwell says, right? We're the worm in the horseradish of this AI revolution,

are in.

as Malcolm Gladwell

revolution, right? And a lot of us see it, but we still don't really see what's going on and happening because we're in it. And that's impossible to see. But I think this is where we got - Hard to gain perspective.

is where we got - Hard to gain perspective.

It really is hard. But I think this is where we got lucky. And this is where - 42U comes in and it helps athletes understand who they really are. And I'll tap back into, I know I'm glazing him a lot, but he deserves it. Adam Grant is just brilliant. And he taps into - Shout out Adam Grant,

into - Shout out Adam Grant, man. Somewhere he's looking around going like, what's going on today?

on today? What's going on with this guy? But what he discusses the difference between hard skills and soft skills, right? And he talks about the evolution of what the hard skills, where that name came from. And it came from the military during World War II. And it was just those individuals who were working on the tanks hard.

Right. Yeah.

Yeah. The ones who weren't working on the tanks, it was all it's called soft skills. Right. And we kind of lost the purpose of what that really meant. And so now we have AI fusing this all together and social media. We have a real loss for identity. And especially in student athletes, not only are they athletes and they truly identify. I know I did. And it's one of the real reasons I started 42U is that I was lost in my identity until I was about 36 years old. I literally viewed myself as an athlete until I was 36. Not as a man, not as a person, not as a business person, but an athlete.

But everything came through that lens.

But everything came through that lens. We came through that lens, right? And then, so 42U, we kind of help athletes understand who they are and how they perform under pressure. So we extract those true transferable skills, the same skills that mentally enable them to perform at a high level on the field.

skills that

a high level

the field. We abstract that and connect that to how they can use that to perform. in their next career choice.

that to how

So is it kind of like peeling back this idea of what it means to be an athlete and what those skills are that are transferable to any place so that their idea of being an athlete has a more broad definition, their understanding of it?

their understanding of it? Yes, because you think about, okay, so if you think about NIL, right? The basis of NIL, third party market NIL is based on branding, right? And personal branding. And it's based on you being an influencer to a third -party company using your name, image, and likeness to use that to assist that company in their marketing or in their advertising. In that pure sense of what NIL is.

that pure sense of what NIL is.

Correct. Not revenue shared, pure sense of NIL. So what that needs is first, if you're going to attend that, you must first understand what your brand is, who you are, what your character is. Brand is just an outward expression of your character, right? So you need to identify that both for yourself so you can acknowledge it. And secondly, so that you can actually create branding that you can then pitch to the third party so they can align with you. So that's one side of it.

what your character is. Brand is just an outward expression of your character, right? So you need to identify that both

that you

But now most student athletes identify as athletes. But if they really understood what mental side enables them to perform at high levels, they can then use that because that is the transferable skill that's going to help them become a great podcaster. That's going to help them become a great analyst in finance or help them become a great surgeon or an attorney. is what we then fuse together. So immediately the athletes get the benefit because when you have clarity on who you are,

they can then use that because that is the transferable

great podcaster. That's going to help them become a great analyst in finance or help them become a great surgeon

who you are, your performance launches. That's the key connector to getting in the zone.

It's funny, in this business, in sports marketing, the word authenticity gets thrown around quite a lot, particularly in terms of how brands present themselves to the market. But this is taking that same quality and making sure that student athletes understand who they are, because that's going to drill down into their authentic selves, which then, so it's one part to understand it, but it sounds like that's the one part of what you're doing. But the other part is, okay, now that you understand it, how do you deploy it? How do you take that and put it out into the market?

When we talk about NIL for college sports, right? I mean, we're in the horseradish of that as well, right? It's a lot of horseradish.

It's a lot of horseradish. All it is is influencer marketing,

it is is influencer marketing, right? But we're attached to this name. Oh my goodness, NIL, right? And then we're talking about such a small percentage of college athletes, right? Who are, let's be real. It's a very small percentage of student athletes who are making life -changing money with their NIL deals. Third -party NIL deals, right? Even if you're looking at revenue sharing with the entire 197 ,000 Division I student athletes, and you literally have 40 -something thousand of them who are actually participating in any form of revenue share.

-party NIL

thousand of them who

participating in any form of revenue share.

Shelf that for a moment. Shelf again. And then you look at the high performers. your Angel Reese's of before, your Arch Manning's, your Travis Hunter's, your Libby Don, right? Those individuals who are and did make life -changing NIL brand deals,

Travis Hunter's,

your Libby Don, right? Those individuals

are and did make life -changing NIL brand deals, right?

did make life -changing NIL brand deals, right?

That's such a small percentage and we're tossing everything in the air for such a small percentage of people. But now here's where NIL becomes positive because it's allowing us to...

and we're

such a small percentage of people. But now here's where NIL becomes positive because it's allowing us to...

now here's where NIL becomes positive because it's allowing us to...

Develop a new model of educating student athletes because personal brand building is the next wave.

a new model

When you have AI taking the majority of our needed hard skill roles and that becomes a tool,

skill roles and that becomes a tool, well, your development of your personal brand, understanding that character, understanding what really makes you.

understanding what

That's how number one, you can relay that to your first step is I can relay that to a small bagel shop in my local college town. I don't care if you're division three NAIA or power four, right? It doesn't matter. Either way, you're learning how to showcase your skill sets and use that in a method. That then becomes educational for you. And I think the college athletic departments that truly wrap their arms around that and not focusing on closing these big deals because there's a few far in between. And guess what? The athletes, if you're not talking about a major power four school, you're talking about an FBS school or division two, division three. Okay.

becomes educational

athletic departments

on closing these

in between.

what? The athletes, if you're not talking about a major power four school, you're talking about an FBS school

The student athletes who are going to do really well in NIL are going to do it with or without you. They don't need you. They don't.

athletes who

don't. They know how to brand themselves. They're natural. They can go right on Instagram and they can follow that path. They don't really need you.

how to brand themselves. They're natural. They can go right on Instagram

and they can follow that path.

They don't

The ones that do need you are the ones that aren't very good at it. And that's where the great education can come into play.

So talk to me a little bit about how 42U begins a relationship with an athletic department. Like what are the critical first steps that an athletic department or 42U has? to cement this relationship what's the when does the athletic department realize man we got to do something here and 42 is the solution well i think you know first of all we like to begin with the student athlete advisory council okay sack right and from sack you're working with two or three of the chosen student athletes from each sport

i think you know first of all we like to begin with the student athlete advisory council okay sack right and from sack you're working with two or three of the chosen student athletes from each sport And they come together as an advisory council. Generally speaking, you're dealing with, sometimes they're the big time players and sometimes they're not, but they're the ones that are kind of carrying the team and the backside on leadership, right? And we like to establish them first. This gives us a good feeling of how the culture of the entire athletic department of that university is working and operating.

and from

sometimes they're not, but they're the ones that are kind

gives us a good feeling of how the culture of the entire athletic department of that university is working and operating. And from there, we then start going team by team.

us a good feeling

department of that university is

start going team

And so we align directly with a particular department. It could be the NIL department. It could be the, uh,

we align directly

with a

the student athlete development department where I think several entry points for you.

entry points for you. There are several entry points.

are several entry points. I believe those two departments should really merge right now because NIL is development is student athlete development. And I think both those windows, both those, uh, both those chairs can connect and communicate with each other. I think you're a very strong department. So we. Different entry points. And then we like to develop a relationship with SAC. That gives us a good opportunity to build that trusting relationship with the university and then begin to knock off each team one at a time. Now,

entry points.

42U has a pretty consequential relationship with the Big Ten. Can you talk a little bit about how that broader conference -based partnership came together and how has working with something as consequential as the Big Ten impacted the business?

So first of all, a big thanks to Rutgers University and Carrie Locke, who runs the Scarlet Knights for Life department. That's your life after sport department at Rutgers, who really was one of our first adopters and got it. She understood because the way she runs her department at Rutgers, they may not be winning much on the field right now in championship level, but I tell you what, they're winning when it comes to the development of student athletes for life after sport, which is. 98, 99 .5 % of the student athletes on campus, they are killing it. And so we got a great referral from Rutgers to, um, the big 10. And we were able to develop that relationship based upon that relationship, like anything else, do a great job. You don't really believe in what you're doing and someone believes in it as well and passes it forward. And so you asked David how much it impacted tremendously,

great job.

asked David how much it impacted tremendously, right? Tremendously to be able to, first of all, to learn from the Big Ten and to have some back and forth dialogue as to what are the challenges that they're seeing conference -wide.

back and forth

are the challenges

-wide. And then we can start picking out, you know, how do we adapt that challenge into our business model?

Yeah. How do you use then that going forward? Do you start connecting with other conferences? Do you have, is this opened up like a new channel for you to go? We talked about student advisory councils and things like this, but when you're coming into the conference level, I'm assuming that allows you to roll up a bunch of schools to be able to have direct impact with. Does that change the way that you think about going to market for 42U?

It did, you know, and from there we started a relationship with the Big East and started having some conversations with the Big East conference, which is an entirely different setup, right? You have a football heavy conference and a basketball heavy conference, right? But what's so interesting is I love the Big East. The reason why I love the Big East is that they're so Olympic sport focused because they have basketball and then it's the Olympic sports and the Olympic sports really drive the engine. of these universities, right? Sort of change the lens in which you look at it a little bit.

of change the lens in which you look at it a little bit.

It sure does. And let's be real, Olympic sports, the majority of those student athletes are not even contemplating playing after college. They're there. They chose that university because, yes, they have a great lacrosse team or golf team or, you know, track and field program. But I chose that university because of the university itself. And so we've really begun to love being able to have some conversations with the Big East and some of the Big East schools and ADs and begin to educate. We are, when it comes to business, you know,

so we've

it comes to business,

sometimes you break in and you join the hype. We didn't really join the hype, but so we have to educate. And this is a long -term situation. We have to continuously educate, you know, the administrations.

Let's touch on that for a minute, because I think college sports and NIL are referred to as, you know, the Wild West in every think piece or article you read about it. There are a lot of companies that are trying to attack that market. Right. It is it's a gold rush. Right. And there are I mean, it seems like every day I'm getting it still getting new announcements about, oh, you know, we're launching this company. And they're all vying for the attention of these schools, the athletes, the administrators and everything. So how do you as 42U break through that clutter with so much noise and so much too many people pulling at the attention for all the people in the decision -making capacities? How do you break through and where have you found success?

I tell you what, man, every time that question, again, wrapped me into decathlon. I am so grateful. And let's set a little tear together. Okay. I am so grateful. Hold on, I got a tissue.

I am so grateful. Hold on, I got a tissue.

I am so grateful I got introduced to the decathlon when I was a young high school athlete, because I tell you what, just you asking that question, it brought me back and it has taught me so much. You cannot be a good decathlete. I was just a good decathlete. You can't be a good or great decathlete by chasing hype. You have to just be grounded in the method, in the methodical day by day training. And then you only get one or two opportunities every year as a high school collegiate decathlete to really pull it all together.

or two opportunities every year as a high school

a high school collegiate decathlete to really pull it all together. So I think to answer your question, we don't chase the hype in all of this. We're very reserved and cool, calm, and collected because we want to be part of the clarity of college sports and impact what's most important.

it all together.

we want to be part of the clarity of college sports and impact what's most important. And in that, I believe there's tremendous business in providing

want to be part of the clarity of college sports and impact

that, I believe there's tremendous

business in providing value -based business on what's really important to student athletes. I mean, when you focus on bringing value,

what's really

right? When you focus on what do people really need? I mean,

on what do people really need?

mean, that's why there's so many restaurants in the world.

that's why there's so many restaurants in

That's why there's so many businesses because having food is extremely important and conversation is extremely important to us. I think programs respond when you find something like that and you help them reduce risk, protect their investment today, develop athletes as people, not just as a profile.

just as

And I'd like to say we're in this for the long game. We believe there's a shift in education, as I just mentioned earlier, and student athletes can be some of the first students, I'd let the athlete out there by reason, some of the first students to be retrained. by our educational facilities, by our higher ed, and be ready for this AI revolution and the personal brand revolution.

ed, and be ready for this AI revolution

and the personal brand revolution.

And which also ties back to Adam Grant again. And he says with that difference - That's a triple shot of Adam Grant in this podcast.

And which also ties back to

- That's a triple shot of Adam Grant in this podcast. He's so good.

so good. And that's the difference between that soft skill and hard skill. Yeah.

I get the feeling that - a lot of the NLL companies that are entering the market are trying to position themselves as we'll get the deals done. You know, we're going to take your athletes and we're going to get these deals done. And that's going to be the way that we're all going to make money where it feels like 42U is much more centered on how do we even get your athletes ready for that moment? So that when that third party company does come in, you have a clear sense of who you are, what you're trying to accomplish and what you bring to the table for those companies. It's really supplying the picks and shovels to the student athletes and the schools. as well and i get it i get it you know because why because there's a market for that because there are a lot of athletic administrators who are also under the pressure to just bring in the deals bring in the deals bring in the deals and again we're sitting back watching them do it and it's okay they're in the chaos right and their jobs are on the line and

i get it i get it you know because why because there's a market for that because

there's a market for

there are a lot of athletic administrators who are also under the pressure to just bring in the deals bring in the deals bring in the deals and again we're sitting back watching them do it and it's okay they're in the chaos right and their jobs are on the line and

are also under the pressure to just bring in the deals bring in the deals bring in the deals and again we're sitting back watching them do it and

There's a lot of craziness going on and they're running towards it. And there are companies like ambulance chasers following that, realizing that, okay, if I spit this little knowledge here, they're going to buy me. They probably are.

they're running

towards it. And there are companies like ambulance chasers

that, realizing that, okay, if I spit this little knowledge here, they're

Had they lasted? Some of them are beginning to fall because the athletic departments are beginning to calm down and realizing that, wow, we were going crazy about all this. Some of it's very important, but when we got back to our basics, we realized that we can make this happen without running around like chickens without our heads off.

of it's very

when we

back to our basics,

can make this happen without running around like chickens without our heads off.

I think if we're going to be able to say anything about college sports and NAL is that it's going to exist in a state of change for the foreseeable future, right? There are, it seems like, again, every day you pick up the paper, something new has happened. And I had a chance to speak. recently with John Cunningham, he's the athletic director for the University of Cincinnati. And he said, you know, he basically said, look, we got to figure out a structure that works, right? It's going to be rocky. If you've taken something that's been this way for 120 years and then flip it on its head, you know, it's going to be hard. So as someone who has both been that college athlete, right, who was in that previous system, and now you're a CEO of a company that's focused on these issues. I mean, what thoughts do you have about structural improvement? Like, what would you like to see, whether it's the universities, whether it's in, I don't even want to say the NCAA because it's so irrelevant now is to almost be ridiculous or the conferences. What should they, from your perspective, be doing for student athletes to prepare them for this new world in which we inhabit?

If I could, before I answer that, I have an answer regarding the structure, but. Let me just say this, because you see so much online and conversations on podcasts about the athletes, right? Because they're the focal point. But the athletes didn't create this chaos. No,

they did not. They're just operating inside of it.

just operating inside of it. And until the adults create the clearer guidelines and share standards, you were going to see the continued chaos. But, you know, the athletes aren't misbehaving.

No, they're dealing with the system that was put in front of them.

they're dealing with the system that was put in front of them.

They are. The athletes are behaving exactly how humans do when there are no clear rules. When you put people in a high stakes environment without structure or guardrails, everyone will push the boundaries. The athletes need real adult leadership.

will push the boundaries.

leadership. All I can think of is you competing in a decathlon and like,

I can think of is you competing in a decathlon and like, say that the discus, cause that was a great event for you. You're competing in the discus and like. And the rules were like, go ahead and throw it from wherever you want. Right. I mean, if your people are going to people are going to take advantage of the rules that don't exist if you're going to do it. I mean, it's the same thing in athletics as it is in the business environment we currently find ourselves. So I appreciate the point.

So the real need right now, and I'll dig into a little more specifics, but on the broader 30 ,000 foot level, the real need right now is adult leadership, clear guidelines, share standards and systems that protect the both athletes and the programs.

clear guidelines,

both athletes and the programs. Am I? My little thoughts on this and a little of me, maybe, maybe I'll climb up the ladder,

little thoughts on this and a little of me,

I'll climb up the ladder, you know, eventually in this, in this sports world. This podcast is going to be the rocket engine that does it,

sports world. This podcast is going to be the rocket engine that does it, man. Here you go, get brace yourself.

that does it, man. Here you go, get brace yourself. But there needs to be a unified front of conferences and some sort of collective bargaining agreement to reduce the chaos and have some degree of business structure. So all other sports, professional sports teams, right? We're talking professionally. Listen, it's still. College. And I love the statement. I've used it before. I'll use it again because I believe in it. College sports is not a business, but there's a lot of business in college sports.

a business, but there's a lot of business

there's a lot of business in college sports. So when we abstract that,

when we abstract that,

we have to look at, because there's finances involved, how the professional teams are doing it. And the main way they're doing it is that there are systematic agreements between the conferences, whatever it might be.

to look at, because there's finances involved, how the professional teams

are systematic agreements

whatever it might be.

There's an agreement and there's a collective bargaining with the athletes. Without that,

an agreement and there's a collective bargaining

that, it's always going to be a risk of running amok.

Do you feel like the time is right for athletes to be employees of universities? I realize this is a hugely loaded question. Yes. That takes us a little bit away, but I'm just curious on your thoughts from your perspective and what you're seeing.

That takes

I do not believe athletes should be employees of the university. That's my personal belief as a former athlete and as an employer. Um, I do not think that is best for the student athletes. However, there needs to be a collective structure of the contractual agreements between the athletes and the universities. Something that is.

that is.

across the board and the same for all student athletes. Obviously there's negotiation of finances, but the contractual agreements are equal. Um, I believe I put a, put a little blurb out the other day on LinkedIn regarding, uh, the, the, the college sports market adopting pieces of the European soccer market and the way that.

I put a, put a little blurb out the other day on LinkedIn regarding, uh, the, the,

the way that. Take the focus off the athlete and put the communication back between the adults. If the athlete wants to leave, okay,

the communication

between the

to leave,

the athlete on the transfer portal, which is one of the biggest issues, the athletes have to have an interest from somebody else because this is going to protect them. After we just went through this transfer portal, there's going to be about 3 ,000 student athletes with no home. These are young. Let's just call them kids for the sake of it. These are young kids who left full scholarships at a university to be educated, thinking because some jackal of an agent called them up and said, hey, this school is going to offer you this. And the kid jumps out of their full scholarship and has no idea that they're going to be left with nothing. And that is a shame.

shame. When it comes to leadership and the adults in the room.

shame. When it comes to leadership and the adults in the

Right. But if that had to be done truly between the schools and the schools had to come to an agreement,

had to be done truly

Hey, we're interested in said athlete. Okay. Now the athlete has a reason to make the change. Right. And then it also protects the athletes because if a school wants to ask them to move on.

make the change. Right. And then it also protects

to ask them to move on. They have to go through the same process. And there's a business relationship between that.

them to

Yeah. I'm still laughing about the jackal as the definition of the agent. You're not wrong. It's a shame. I'm not wrong. It's a shame. There's some great agents out there. Unfortunately, they are usually outnumbered by everybody who's just trying to get a piece.

not wrong. It's a shame. I'm not wrong. It's a shame.

I know some wonderful agents that are doing an amazing job. Amazing job because they care about the student athlete at its core and they're there supporting them, not just making business deals. And that, again, that's where there's no guardrails, right? There's no guardrails to enter. Have, you know. Well,

I can literally hang a shingle out tomorrow and say supporting college athletes. Go ahead and put on your Twitter profile.

I can literally hang

ahead and put on your Twitter profile.

put on your Twitter profile. Wait a minute. Yeah, it's a good idea.

a minute. Yeah, it's a good idea. College agent and you can do it and no one can see. So that's an adult problem.

you can do it and no one

Yeah. Right. And so again, the student athletes are impressionable. It's the most impressionable time that we have outside of our parents, right? That first stage of life, we're most impressionable by our parents. In that second stage in college, we are most impressionable by our professors, our mentors, our coaches, and our parents are there to build the foundation.

of our parents, right? That first stage of life, we're most impressionable by our

mentors,

So you're now in that impressionable young.

now in that impressionable young.

female or male's life and telling them, hey, jump ship from your university because they're not really treating you right and I can go get some money for you,

male's life and telling them, hey, jump ship

right? The kid's believing it because it's another adult they're feeling impressed by. So it's a real shame that adults in the room really need to stand up.

So let's, as we start to wrap up here, let's focus on the future of 42U. Because like we've talked about, the only thing we can really count is that change is going to continue to come to college sports. The adults are going to continue to throw things against the wall and see what works. As a business owner whose market is this college sports world that is in a constant state of flux, how do you prepare for the inevitable pivots that you're going to make? Do you have a sense of when you look down the road where 42U is headed? And what changes do you think you want to make?

You know, I think I'll circle back to decathlon one more time. I promise the last time I circle back to it. No,

it. No, it's not because we've got something else coming up. Oh my goodness,

my goodness, you're killing me. But the beauty of the decathlon, right? If you stay focused on your sprinting, your jumping, your throwing, and knowing that you have to do well in that 1500. If you stick to those four points. and those are your focal points in your training, you will progressively do well. And I believe in the same thing. So get rid of the noise.

get rid of the noise.

Get rid of the noise. And I think we're anchored in what doesn't change. Human behavior, decision -making under pressure, and personal identity, right? These things are not changing despite all the other things going on around college sports. That is still extremely important. Very valuable. And when you brush away the noise, that's something that the universities, the athletic departments are going to have to focus on. And that is truly their fiduciary responsibility. And I think if we continue to stay focused on that, build around those constants and then adapt, I think we'll be okay.

With Stephen Bianco, he is the co -founder and CEO of 42U. Stephen, thanks so much for the time today. But before I let you go, take the smile right off your face. We're going to put you in the lightning round. Okay. This is a truly intimidating part of the show where I'm going to give you a series of questions.

This is

intimidating part of the show where I'm going to give you a series of questions. I just want you to give me the first thing that comes to your mind. Okay. All right. So Stephen Bianco, you are now officially in the lightning round. As we discussed. You were a decathlete in college. That's 10 track and field events in two days. What was the event you dreaded the most, and why was it the 400 meters?

You're good. It was the 400 meters. Of course.

the 400 meters. Of course. It's got to be the 400. Nobody runs the 400 and says, that was so much fun.

It was the hardest to train for. With everything else. Right. Because it's right between sprinting and distance,

Right. Because it's right between sprinting and distance, right? I mean, you're basically going all out for a complete lap, right? Dreaded.

Dreaded to 400. Awful. And for me, throwing was my strength. So I was always a little larger. I competed at like 6 '3", 225. And so the 400. Oh, that's not a 400 build.

Oh, that's not a 400

build. 225 pounds, that's tough. Oh my God.

I'm starting to sweat just thinking about it. All right. You spent some time at the Air Force Academy. Yes, sir. I have two kids who went to the Naval Academy. What was the best prank you participated in during Navy Air Force Football Week? Oh, wow.

Well, I was, I really can't answer that because I was, I was an athlete in training. And so I was on the football field. So we really didn't participate in that. Right. You play football there too.

the football

play football there too. Yes. That's a, that's a hard one for me to answer because I was just head down thinking about the game.

That's a, that's a hard one for me to answer because I was just head down thinking about the game.

All right. So no pranking. There was no time. There was no time to prank. There's no time to prank at the service academies.

I'll give you a little something for that. The, the, the prank that I got in trouble for during basic training was that I was leading the,

that I was

my, my class out front. And, um, you know, I was hungry. I was hungry during basic training. And so I was slowly, slowly. Stealing hostess pies.

basic training.

And I was putting them in my pockets. Oh, yeah, the cargo pants come in handy. And they were testing people. And literally, I'm up front in front of everybody. So I'm thinking, okay, I'm not getting touched. I'm up front. They believe in me. I'm leading this group. And I'll never forget. His name was Adam Svalto.

yeah, the cargo pants come in handy.

I'll never forget. His name was Adam Svalto. And he walks up and he looks at me. He smiles, and then he taps the side of my pants, and he just looks at me with this raspy voice, and he goes, Bianco,I'm disappointed in you.

You are not the first person to shove hostess cakes into your cargo bags. Oh, Bianco. All right, good times. All right, you spent some time as a New Jersey state trooper. What's the most memorable traffic stop you ever had?

the most

The most memorable has to be where it was a 17 -year -old girl on 280 in New Jersey. I pulled her over and I walk up to the car and ask her why she was speeding so fast. And she said, I just went diarrhea all over myself and I'm trying to get home. And I just said, sweet little girl, let me escort you home so you don't crash.

Oh, might be one of the best lightning round answers we've ever gotten. Oh, no. Okay, last one, I promise. Yeah, go. You love Siberian Huskies. Wow. Who are a little famous for being drama queens. So is that reputation deserved?

Yes, very much so. That's why I named her Mercedes.

very much

Bonus round question. Are you able to imitate her when she's irritated?

I cannot, no. But that is, I sure miss my Mercedes. She was an absolute pleasure and she brought us a lot of joy for many, many years.

Steven Bianco, thanks so much for the time. It's been an absolute pleasure.