In this episode of Dancing Class, dance artist Sarah Blanc vibrantly explores her journey from a council estate in Waterford, Ireland, to becoming a freelance choreographer and performer in the UK. Sarah shares candid reflections of navigating the challenges of class and access alongside themes of ambition, identity, imposter syndrome, and the freelance hustle. The discussion is wrapped in Sarah’s humour and warmth. Recorded in binaural sound, this immersive episode invites listeners to reflect on how dance and class identity can shape careers in the UK.

Content Guidance: Bi-neural

Hi, I'm Laura.

Hi, I'm Rachel. And this is the dancing

class podcast

made possible by the British Academy,

Lever Hume Small Research Grant Fund and

Leeds Becket University. In this series,

we invite dance industry professionals

from working-class backgrounds in the UK

to talk about their experience of dance

education and their careers. We're

interested in discussing the ways in

which dance can be a vehicle for class

mobility in the UK and contributes to

discourses around leveling up. This

series also researches the role of dance

as a catalyst for social and economic

progress. Some of our discussions take

place while dancing and are recorded

with spatial sound. This creates an

immersive effect and the best listening

experiences via the use of headphones.

These recordings will be labeled as

binaural.

We hope that you enjoy the series.

Thanks for tuning in.

So Sarah, is it blanc or is it blank?

Take anything.

Is it blonke?

Is it blanch?

What a really academic question.

Straight off that leads back at

university. Um uh I say blone. B L O N

G

Blanc.

Blanc.

Oh,

it does. Yeah.

Or I mean I take anything. I get called

everything obviously. Blancy blanc

blancon blanc.

Did that happen at school?

Um I don't really remember it being a

thing, but I do remember. Yeah. All the

time. Blanc. Blanc.

Sarah Blanc.

You can imagine what I got for cliche.

Crisis.

Cliche. Crochet.

Crochet.

Crochet.

That's cute.

Um, so where where do you come from,

Sarah?

I come from Waterford in Ireland, which

is down the southeast called the sunny

southeast. It's also the oldest city in

Ireland.

Okay.

We're a Viking city.

Yes. Pretty cool. Thank you.

Um, from from there, I grew up there.

And I also actually it's not that

interesting, but it's coming out my

mouth now. is I my my ancestry is French

hugeno.

So during the um French revolution all

the prodies were shoved out of Catholic

France

and uh so they came over some I'm an

Irish prody which is very unusual.

Oh

interesting

unique

so that's why that's why your name

it doesn't sound Irish.

Yes exactly amazing. So it's it it's um

because whenever anybody meets me they

automatically think oh Catholic or I

always get oh my my granny my Irish

granny oh you'll know when she goes to

church my darling I don't know they went

to mass I went to church

right

it's a very different experience like

growing up in our council estate was all

like Catholics we were the only

protestants in the estate

oh wow

gosh and did and was that known

yeah and we we had

yeah we yeah we had like I'm getting

deep straight away we had like 200 house

daily. We were like, it was all like

early early 90s, so

the ceasefire h was just about to

happen. So there was load Yeah, we were

singled out the whole time.

But my mom handled it so well in that

she didn't like fight back. We also had

our house set on fire with us all in it.

Sarah, no.

I know. I'm laughing.

It's no laughing master Sarah.

It's but but it's it's the fear of the

unknown. They had, it might sound wild,

but they had never met a Protestant

before. They didn't know what that was.

They didn't know, they were scared of

somebody coming in and changing

their

uh landscape or changing their their

community.

So, we didn't go cuz in Ireland, maybe

not so much now, but your school, your

community is all connected to the church

and everyone knows you from that. And

that was amazing growing up because an

amazing community. And when I moved to

London, that's what I was always

searching for was to try to find this

community again.

Interesting.

I dabbled going back to church, but

dabbled right back out of it.

I tried, but I did find a really cool

church, but it was over in South

Kensington and it was all Bear Grills.

Bear Grills went to it and every

Why you went?

I just went because it was um I was

looking for I was looking like for

community

I suppose in a well in our state was a

community and we looked after each other

even though

also my church was an estate but my

church was a community and then also our

I was looking for that community.

Um but every second sentence out of the

priest's mouth was and if you give money

you'll be saved even more and if you

give more money and I was like okay it's

a cult. It's a cult. So I left but yeah,

Hill Song was a hill song place.

So community council house raised like

your t-shirt

dance.

Um how did dance come into your life or

did it at that point?

Um when I first moved No, I'

um when I was maybe 11, Waters Youth

Arts, which is like a community drama um

uh

organization came and they did class

they did classes all in different

communities in different states and

different places around And so I went to

St. Oh, not St. Joseph's Hall. My god, I

forgot the name of the center. My god.

But in the in like two states over,

there was a community center and that's

where I did my drama classes. And then

about four years into that, somebody

came over from England, dirty England,

they moved to Waterford and they set up

some dance classes, Libby. And I

remember being in that class going,

"Whoa, this is how I want my body to

feel." I remember it being a complete

awakening of like,

"Oh, wow. I love this. I mean like this

is what I want to do with my life.

I'm not started.

So was it really quite well because it

was immediate for me as well when I

discovered contemporary dance age of 14.

Yeah.

Yes. I was about 14.

Yeah. And it was like the local and they

don't exist now but the dance animator

who was employed by

the the town's council and her job was

to

set up dance in the town. And so I went

to a free class. Amazing.

Nice.

And I was hooked like literally from the

moment I did this.

Yeah.

To Hill Street.

Yes.

Oh, we've all done that.

I just thought

Yeah.

Coolest thing.

I think mine mine was like it's like a

this move

like a figure of eight and like a like a

like Yeah. The stuff moving your body. I

remember being like whoa. because I

tried um I was very I was always making

shows out in my back garden. So I was

always choreographing I was always

making

and then so as soon as my mom could find

a dance class. I did one disco dance

class when I was maybe like eight but

one term remember mom saying sorry I

can't afford to do another term but I

remember doing that being like

loving that but after that that was

enough

material for me to rip for a few for a

few years make my own [ __ ]

Yeah. Can I curse?

No.

Yes.

Even though it's at least back at

university.

I curse.

I think we all do.

Um. Uh.

Yes.

Yes. So, tell us about Can you remember

anything about what was your teacher

called again?

Libby Seawward.

Libby.

She saw me dance last week when I was on

tour in Ireland. She came to watch me.

So, tell us about that about her.

Libby.

And how did she end up? um

in your town.

She entered our town because of love, I

think.

So, um so they had moved and she just

kind of like appeared.

Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. It was amazing.

And where had she come from Sarah?

Do you know where she London wise

actually

and she trained in dance?

I think she trained at Len.

I think I think but like she came in and

like I see lots of my friends now who

don't live in London who are living One

of my friends, Susie Tate, who lives up

in like North umberland ways.

Yeah.

She is the most amazing woman because

she's like in all the different towns.

She's leading the hospital program.

She's leading the she's making work for

um disabled people. She's making work

for young people. She's got the youth

group. She's got the university group,

but she's making dance happen. As what

Libby came in and went bam, you know,

and I but it's what what yes she had to

do.

But and she's now but now she works in

opera. Amazing.

What? Doing like

movement direction.

Amazing.

So like I was taking we were taking a

piss. She's like, "Oh, you've you moved

on. Have you community dance?"

Oh, you're better than us now, are you?

So what happened next, Sarah? So you you

had this like awakening.

Yes.

Contemporary dance. Amazing. This you've

done this

and then and then we did we did a um

Should we do this together last week?

The next bit of the story.

We did um a a uh a project with this

company in Wales, uh, Downab in Wales.

They're community dance. Um, I don't

know. I couldn't ask you where in Wales,

but during that I went to see this this

show where they talked

and they danced

at the same time. The same time. And I

remember being like, "Holy [ __ ] balls."

Yeah,

that's a bit of me.

Yeah.

And then I was like, "Right, I can do

that." And then I decided I want to do

dance and physical theater. So I went to

John university.

I did dance and physical theater. Yes.

In Liverpool. And I realized I needed

more dance training because all

everybody who was there had done dance

since they were three

and I had done

community dance since I was 14.

So um I then went to Scottish school

contemporary dance

and did two my masters but it was a H&D.

It was my masters.

So what was it like then when you

arrived at university with that sort of

different

Yeah. What context?

Can I just check in? What year were you

talking?

Got 20

three.

Oh, you're a youngster.

Youngster.

Yes. So, am I am I?

Well, compared to

When did I go to university? 2002. So,

we're similar.

Similar 89.

Yeah.

Not 1889, but

same.

Um then and then I did that course. And

how did I feel when I went there?

It felt well, first of all, I'd moved

countries,

so that was major. And I think me and my

mom had been quite close. So that was

quite hard leaving my mom. And my other

sisters had both left. And my brother

had gone to another school, so I was

just me and her in the house, so we've

gotten quite close. So that was really

hard leaving her.

But she said she always knew I was the

one that's going to fly, right?

Fly the nest.

Yeah. Yeah.

And did your mom know much about dance?

Of course not.

I remember there was somebody in our

youth drama who had gone to Bristol Vic

and he was like look up conservatars.

Oh really?

Jesus Christ. Um but he had said look up

the conservator thing and look through

all them. So I wanted to do acting at

first.

So I auditioned like my mom put me on a

bus in Waterford.

Yeah.

To travel to London.

Amazing.

Wow.

On my own.

When I was 17 with a map of how to get

to Lambda auditions. Wow. And you got

back.

I got called back.

There you go. But I couldn't go because

you afford to go back again.

God.

Wow.

Well, that's interesting,

isn't it?

So, literally, you didn't do your call

back because you couldn't afford again.

Yeah.

That's kind of

insane, isn't it? It's really insane.

And also, um Yes. And then but then also

my mom came over

And then we wanted

was there something about Liverpool then

that was important or

I think I fell in love with Liverpool

and what Liverpool was.

Yeah.

I don't know. It just felt because I

liked music

and then uh Yeah. And I love Liverpool.

Liverpool's great. You just go there,

you say you're Irish and everyone's like

Yeah.

And anywhere up north really. You can

just say I'm Irish. Actually, anywhere

in the world.

Free ticket. And also now with my

passport, so like

so you could do anything.

My motheries

We all want to be Irish.

Uh, what was the question?

So, we've digressed a bit, but we were

talking about what it was like to be at

university.

Yeah.

Studying dance.

It was It was great. But, um, and I had

really good, amazing teachers. Like, I

had Oh, like Manny Ensley. Did you Manny

Emley at this end? She now teaches over

at Cheshire. I had Sue um Akroyd.

Oh, I know Sue.

She went down to Lin after

I had uh Bernard

Pierre Louie.

Yeah. Like so all these like really like

good characters like Manny was like in

terms of creativity, they were always

just really encouraging me and being

like

like go you got this. So I left like in

my in the final year production in the

final our final shows my choreography

got in. Then I was in like five of the

seven choreographies.

So I was just like give it to me

everything. Let me do it. But I also

went make sure I did extra ballet

classes. I went to singing lessons. that

I was like I did anything extra I could

because I always felt I had to like

catch up yeah

with everybody else that was there who

done ballet.

I think there's always even though I'm

so proud of where I come from there's a

real sense I was talking to my friend

Bry about this because

my next show is about it's called

Council State Princess but the the idea

of like I'm so proud of where I come

from and I wear it literally. Yeah.

But yet I've always had this thing of

getting out of it.

Interesting. I've always been like, I'm

going to be a star. Like in my in my

diaries, I'm going to win an Oscar by

the time I'm 21. I'm going to be a film

for DiCaprio. I'm going to like I'd had

all these like major manifestations,

mate.

And it's still going to happen.

Yeah, of course.

But like I had had all these things, but

it was always this thing of getting out

or wasn't that I'm ashamed. It's more

like

I believe in

beyond

beyond myself. Yeah. I think do you

think that is something that around your

kind of context because I feel like for

me growing up like doing dance was like

my family saw that as like you're going

to be a star. It was that same thing

like yeah she's so good at it you know

like she's gonna this is going to make

her famous and this is and people like

being like oh you're going to be on top

of the pops.

Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Yes.

People just think that that's what you

and that's like, oh my god, can you

imagine if you were on top of a telly?

Being on a telly. I did um once I did

this thing for is the thing my mom still

talks about. I was on Big Brother and um

it was a task for the for the

housemates. Anyway, my mom still talks

about me being on Big Brother. Of

course she does.

And I and I at the time that was quite

early on. That was like back in like 200

because I finished then in London. I

So like It was quite early. Maybe 2010

or 11 I did that and that's

being on TV.

Yeah.

But I did I've done other things on TV

and they just they just

that's not Yeah. But it's something

that's relatable, isn't it?

I was in the Commonwealth Games opening

ceremony in Manchester dancing because

it it just because they built so it's

now the Etihad Stadium. They built it

um while I was at college.

So just before I went to university, it

was like there was a you know a launch

and whatever and they were like it was

my six form dance teacher who said you

should go and do this audition

and so I was like dancing in the opening

and that's a similar thing that people

are like remember when you did that

remember when you were in the opening

ceremony the Commonwealth Games and it

was literally like a five minute walk

from the house.

Um and it was just like possible but

yeah I love that similar thing. They

they Yeah, they Yeah.

I mean, a lot of my friends now are all

working in the movies or choreographing

the movies or in the movies.

And would you say a lot of your friends

from back in Ireland or

Oh, no, no, no. In my my Yeah. Yeah.

Or like

or a bit younger or bit whatever like my

generation, they're all now working in

the which would be I'd love that.

Yeah.

I've done a bit more as I'm getting

older. I'm getting offered more

commercial stuff

which I find interesting. But They So

that would be I'd love to do that for my

family.

Barbie,

that's a question we've got actually is

thinking about what what does dance look

like for you now? What are you doing in

dance now? What does it

I'm I'm

doing everything now. I'm uh right now

I've got my own company so I'm so I'm

artistic director of that and also

perform in that work sometime most of

the time. I try not to but Stop me. She

likes to perform.

She's so shy. She's so shy.

Who cares about them

when I'm on stage?

No. Right now there's um uh in Punk. We

got a show called Punk Alley, which is a

show for young people. And that is

there's six of us on stage. One's a BSL

interpreter.

Access is embedded throughout

everything we do.

Um, uh, what else? And then I'm working

with Dan Door Creative Projects as an

associate artist and I was movement

director on the last show, Dan Door, the

Dan Door show and rehearsal director on

tour.

And I'm co-directing the next show which

starts in well, we've already started

but June it starts. And then what else

am I doing? And then just just pissing

about moving director for different

people and

and whatever. So like I'm making a

living. And did and was that this is a

strange question by was that like a

proactive choice? I'm going to have I'm

going to work in dance. I'm going to

have a career in dance.

I had no choice.

Or did you fall into it or did things

just suddenly

the dance life chose you?

Yeah. Did choose you? No. But in the

sense that like opportunities came up

and you go, "Okay, yeah,

I'm a yes person." Yes. Yes. Yes.

I think what was so amazing about my

backwards way of getting into the dance

world like going to vocational then

going up to Scot like Scotland doing

this H&D and then coming back to London

was that

whilst being at Liverpool and Dundee I

met all the London artists because they

are all up guesting

in different places. By the time I moved

to London I had a community already down

there.

So I wasn't by myself in a way or like

I'd go to I go to professional class and

I'd already done class that teacher

because he taught me up in or she had

taught me And what would have been the

non-backwards way?

It would have been ballet from three

years old, doing the grades and then

going straight into a vocational

training school and uh getting into a

company straight off the back office of

being good at technical dancing.

But does that even

anymore? It used in my generation

definitely that's what people were still

aiming for because we still had the

apprenticeships and there was still all

of the um there was all the everyone was

wanting that Richard Dawson

apprenticeship that um

and the all like the company of dance of

Wales company dance of Wales company

dance company of Wales Scottish dance

theater everyone wanted those things

that wasn't my thing I think I was I

wanted edge and I never got edge I

auditioned for edge Really?

I would have loved to be an edge. Yes.

But Mary was like, "Sarah, you're ready.

Go fly."

Which is nice advice. Actually,

I get that the whole time. Everyone

always says, "Sarah, you're gonna be

fine." Everyone just knows, "Sarah,

you're going to be fine." It's because

I'm a a go-getterer. Yeah.

But sometimes I'm just like, "Someone

just take me.

Someone just take me."

But I know it's a compliment, but

sometimes it's I'm just a bit like,

"Okay, I get it." But

Yeah.

And have you So, have you always been

this confident? You strike me right now

in this room

as

Yeah. incredibly confident.

She fooled you. I Well, I'm going

through a year at the moment. I've had a

bit of like a I feel No, I've No, I've

not always been this confident. I do

feel really good in myself in this

moment in time. being with us here at

least

being with you university

indeed

we can sure we do we could be that edge

for you for 10 minutes

you call up in edge

no well hold on I weren't in in edge

because the year that was my fourth year

after I graduated they had a year out of

edge

it used to be called 4

and then they took a year out oh and

then Um,

and then I was off. So anyway, but then

I did

photograph a little a nice little small

experimental

trio for Edge, which I adored doing just

right after I've done

who's in that.

What year is it?

God. So it was 2007.

Oh no.

And I just worked with

And I literally So I said to David

Steel, who was David Steele was

directing it at that time. And I said,

"What do you want?" And he said, "You

could do whatever you like." And I said,

"Can I do this? Can I work with

improvisation?" He's like, "Yeah." So I

did.

I had three gorgeous dancers. One was

Brazilian, one was from Luxembourg, and

then another one was from Korea.

Wow.

Three of them just went with it. And it

was structured improvisation. what

and looking and we were looking at um

Gregory

Crudson

images and we made the costumes look

like they've been buried and dog up so

they were sort of like and then we had a

light that looked like a flickering

telly in the corner so it was a bit like

weird twilight zone

and was the performance improvised or

totally

structured they had landmarks but they

were completely improvised and they god

love them they went with it and they

were like They were amazing.

So that that was cool.

And so

going back to

going back to you

confidence.

Confidence.

So go back to your council estate. Were

you this confident on your council

estate back in Ireland? The prody word

in the Catholic council.

was I I mean I think I'm good at just

Yeah.

going with it and putting myself in

situations that are I'm not like I I'm

very ambitious. I've always been

interesting. Yeah. Yeah.

But yeah, I don't think I think I would

definitely I don't know. How can you be

I don't know. I was awkward. I was never

invited to the parties. I was never

kissed by the boys, but I loved my dance

classes and my drama classes.

And what about like your c the cultural

culture that's surrounded you? Like were

your family

like interested? Did you cultural value

is TV?

TV.

Big Brother.

We Oh, that was probably after. But I we

you know, every Saturday night favorite

memories at home is watching Baywatch

Gladiators and um

uh what's it what's it called? That

dating show.

Oh, blind date.

Yes. The back. Yeah.

Surprise, surprise.

Yeah. So, like that was it. And then my

our neighbor Jerry Oaks would bring us

to the panto sometimes every year.

Um and then yeah, my mom would go to

theater if I was in a show, but there's

no there's no interest. There's no

interest. My mom painted when she was

younger.

Come on. Come on. Come on. Come on. We

love Take that. Oh my god. I remember

they when they split up on the 30th of

I was so I grew up in Manchester so take

that were like all around everything

that I did and I was like trying to be

different

so I like 17

I'm like I just didn't want to be that

person because it was just like it was

and I remember going to my dance classes

and there'd be like like pandemonium

about take that and who'd been to see

them that weekend or who had seen Gary

Barlow on a bus you know

did did Robby Robbie Williams leave.

What did

I like Robbie Williams? I did go to see

Robbie Williams in concert a few times.

My sister's a mega fan and we went to

see him at the Roundhouse and he made a

joke about what the Roundhouse does. So

like he said if you don't he doesn't

know he's not London.

I'm giving a accent anyway.

He lives in Australia now. You can do

that one.

Does he do action? All right then. All

right guys. So basically you're all here

to see me.

If you're not here to see me, you'll see

some some silly little community dance

down the end of the room. Something that

did not say that around about. Yeah, he

took the piss out of community arts and

I thought,

"Oh my god."

And I was there dressed in pajamas for

him because it was a pajama party. I

also queued up for 5 hours outside the

venue in my pajamas for him

and then he he dissed my whole career.

Whoa.

And I was like, I'm not even dancing. I

hope he hears this.

Yeah, I do too.

He won't [ __ ] hear this.

But his new movie is very good.

I'm going to send it to you.

Very good.

I didn't even realize he was in the

movie.

It's actually very good. It's very bleak

because I think he's had quite

I mean

Yeah. Yeah. Not anymore.

So So would you consider that you've

been like a freelance artist or maybe

still what you do is kind of a bit of

everything?

I'm a freelance artist and always have

and always have been. I I can do I used

to worked for Ted Panduka for quite a

few years and I was on Luke Pel. Do you

know Luke Pel? Amazing, gorgeous Luke

Pel. He was education manager or

probably a better title than that. I

don't know what his title was, but he

got me in three days a week to be youth

dance manager.

And so I tried it. I hated having to be

summer for three days a week. You can't

time me down.

And I had to leave. I was doing all my

hours like after hours and I was going

in working from like 8 to 12 midnight or

I was like

I couldn't I couldn't I couldn't do it.

So yes.

So you are that free freelance free

spirit.

Freelance free spirit. Can't tie this

[ __ ] down. But then

just want to be more

interesting.

But

was never anything I thought would be

for me. But now I'm like maybe it could

be. I mean I guess like certainly

current thinking around being freelance

is one of people being precarious or

feeling a sense of precarity like lack

of security lack of options in terms of

getting a mortgage

but do you think that there's something

also about

having that workingass background that

plays into that at all?

Well I

this sounds all

I didn't have anything growing up so I

don't feel like I need I don't Money is

not ever a a driver for me. You should

in instances I'm getting better asking

for more or

I don't work for free but it's not a

driving force. It's not what attracts

me. What attracts me is the feeling of

something or the people I'm going to

work with or the opportunity is going to

be or the travel.

Travel with work is like I've seen so

much of the world from work which is

such a privilege. So I can do that kind

of [ __ ]

That's my jam.

But maybe I could on the west end shows

and getting you know

10 grand a week or whatever some people

get you know but

I want to I want

that's not where the appeal is

also I want to work with people who make

work that matters

that change the world think about the

world in a different way or I don't mean

to sound all high but that's what

me it's working I'm paying my rent

and

I got a new pair of Versace glasses so

she ain't doing too

discounted though. Discounted all the

discounts.

Well, it's interesting though because in

a similar way I would like I was never

concerned about money when I was

younger.

But but and it did I can remember also

but also tempering that I think it took

me until I was about 26 years old. 27 so

a good six or seven years being a

freelancer where I felt like I had the

courage to ask a choreographer who

offered me a job. Am I first, am I going

to be paid?

And second, how much?

And and I saw and that was a real

pivotal point for me when I first did

that. Oh,

I can do this. Why was I so afraid

of asking those really important

questions?

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I and I think I

just didn't have the confidence

because money was

talked about.

Yeah.

Never talked about that

financial safety net that maybe my

parents could have known. This is not a

down my parents at all.

That's just the circumstance

for various reasons you know.

Yeah. So I think it's kind of

interesting when that was a pivotal

point in my sort of late 20s and then in

my 30s going no I need to now I need to

earn some money now because I've done

lots of traveling I've had lots of

artistic sort of fulfillment and

experience and excitement

and now actually no I value myself to

want to be paid for a good job that I'm

delivering

just kind of and then in my 40s finally

going

maybe I could buy a house.

So you know and maybe but what's it

but I think there's something about

I was when I was working here a lot of

our students like I I was really

surprised when this first happened and a

lot of our students are from working

class background

a big driver for them

becket

is I want to get a job so I can get a

mortgage like That's their first

concern.

Whereas when I was 18, 19, that was

like, you know what, I don't give a [ __ ]

where I I can live in a room

without any heating and still have a

good old time. But the there was there's

something also about the students here

that were are really

searching for security quite early on.

Yeah.

Which I found like really really

surprising when I

And but I think that's also indicative

of a shift in like economic stability.

as well. But I think going back to that

point of like asking for money and

feeling like you deserve to be paid and

but I think for me when coming out of

university, there was a real sense for

me that it was about almost like earning

the status to be able to do that. Like

that feeling of like doing things for

free because then you've got experience

and you can prove yourself.

I mean I was lucky to um I found like

through a friend that I worked with in a

pub.

Yeah.

Discovered that there was a studio um in

woking

where they were teaching it was called

first dance studios and they taught

wedding

first dance studio

but I went along to a class there and

then very quickly got familiar and and

of course I'd done Latin in a ballroom

growing up so

did you go

so they enabled me to um

Oh my god you

couples.

Yes. Um so I started teacher but I also

started doing a bit of like um what did

I start doing? Started doing a bit of

I I did like people. I loved it. And

that's where I found like yeah I want to

be down here. I want I want to be doing

this. That's me. That's how I want to

feel when I'm dancing.

And so I started teaching classes along

those lines. Open up this whole world of

like community dance practice to me. But

I've been quite a

nervous of but I've been teaching in my

Latin school

from being like 14.

Oh my god, it's amazing. How about my

hips? Your hips don't lie.

Yeah. So like

they're telling the truth.

Skills.

Uh then it just that gave me then I was

like, "Oh yeah, I'm actually doing this

and and I'm being paid."

Yes.

I think I was so lucky because when I

finished at Scottish school contemporary

dance then my dad did one year at the

place.

Oh yeah. Did you do like that sort of

one year special course?

Yes.

The one year special.

It was great.

Yeah.

Um I wanted technique from it but when I

s I finished I did that but then

Scottish Scottish Scottish school

contemporary dances um principal

got me up to choreograph on students and

paid me quite nicely.

Yeah. Great.

And then I because again I was strategic

in my studenting I was I was at Kanduk's

door because a dream I was like I'm

joining a youth dance company. So by the

end of my year at the place I was then

going to be assisting. So then I was

going and they paid quite nicely for

assistant and then a year later I was

two years later I was teaching. So I had

a really I was so lucky in terms of the

level of uh pay I knew what I what was

possible

in terms of in education. So then when

it came to performing,

yeah, also did all the resolution pieces

and do all that kind of cool stuff,

but I had to also then audition then I

wasn't getting any auditions because she

was a big well plus my I know that's

obviously good enough for them, but I'd

always be there with my body going. I'm

as good as that person, but ain't going

to fit their costume. So ain't going to

get that jab was always the feeling.

And do you think

common body?

Do you think there's any sort of

relation?

What does that mean?

What's a common body?

Well, I feel like

my body is made up of um potatoes,

beans, and

same here, mate.

And uh

nuggets, like simple foods cuz my mom

was a single mother of four.

Uhhuh.

And quick and delicious food.

Yeah.

So, I feel like it's taken me a while to

understand nutrition better and

understand what my body need fueling

body rather than just eating to get it

done. And also that whole thing of

eating not leaving anything on the

plates. I still have to tell myself I I

even now in the last few years like

right leave something on the plates.

Yeah. And also don't finish what's on

the children's plates

because it's a waste of food. Waste is

the worst thing you see food wasting.

It literally makes a world war and a

civil war. You do not waste food. I can

remember I used to hate baked beans

growing up

and I like them now. But um I can

remember being at friends houses and

like forcing because every parent goes

when every parent goes oh stick beans on

the plate. Kids love beans and I didn't

and I was too polite well I was too like

nervous and polite to say I don't like

beans.

Um that I would just eat them. And I

remember I can still like feel that like

embodied sensation of forcing the beans

down. So that I didn't leave anything on

the plate because I couldn't possibly.

That was so rude and wasteful. But also

like I didn't eat beans for 30 years.

Wow.

Wow.

Once I once I was confident enough to

say hold the beans.

Hold the beans.

Yeah.

But I I do love a spoon of bean when

you're on tour in a premier.

I still couldn't do it cold. Couldn't do

it cold. But I do like them now.

I No, I I love beans.

Pregnancy changed me when I was

pregnant. I was like, I want some beans.

Cheesy beans.

Yeah. Cute.

That's interesting.

Yeah.

I mean, it's funny because in my my

experience of working class

food, nutrition, cuisine was very

different because my mom was Spanish,

of course. Yeah.

To take and they she could cook

everything and did from scratch

and you know went to the went to the

butcher,

went to the fish monger, went to the

market for veg. So, it was very My mom

He had all the things. But

yeah.

And and my mom so my mom was when I was

born she was 45 years old which in

71 is quite like

legend. That's so cool.

Mom.

Yes.

Um and so she was born you know in the

1920s and grew up where you do cook you

know processed food or convenience food.

We just didn't have because

she just

was longing for smash potatoes because I

love the advert with the robots

and thought but I could we rarely got

anything like that. So in a way it's

kind of interesting because I I looking

back now

my home diet was quite middle class to a

certain degree but that's because my mom

cooked before

the body thing is really interesting and

we talked about this because I

found that um so because I was dancing

like four days a week. I danced at

school. So, I was just like doing it all

like in my local community dance school

and um in like a ballroom school, Latin

American Ball, which was also just local

and then I did GCSE GCSE dance at school

and then A level

and that, you know, rock my world.

That's so cool.

But um

but yeah, I think because of that, I

just was like I ate loads but had like a

metabolism that was just going mad. So,

I was always really tall and slim. Yeah.

I like didn't really gain weight. But I

think I was saying to Rachel about this

that I felt that um somehow just having

that body that looks like a dancer's

body like enabled me to feel confident

when actually like my technique wasn't

like I'd done contemporary at school but

I wasn't doing Graham classes and you

know and I wasn't doing I remember going

to learn ballet with Northern Ballet

classes in Manchester because I I

auditioned at Northern didn't get in um

because I'd done like a bit of like

informal type ballet and jazz and tap in

my local community school with my

teacher was amazing. She just like

wanted kids off the street. She was like

just come and dance.

Um so we did a bit of like and we did

like ballet exams and stuff but it

wasn't like it wasn't RA. It wasn't like

a recognized syllabus.

Yeah.

Um and but I just think for me there was

something about that body and gave me

the confidence to go right well I can be

here that's that's how I can go here and

do this because I look the part but

actually

I felt like an imposter in lots of other

ways. Right.

Yeah.

Yeah. That's interesting, isn't it?

I hadn't done the posh ballet school

since being three or whatever. And

um

Yeah.

And yeah, I was having roast potatoes,

14 roast potatoes and dinner on a

Sunday, you know.

Delicious. Delicious.

Yeah. And watching Gladiators or

whatever and Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah.

I don't know.

Yes.

But there's something about our

relationship to the body.

Food for me is a major thing in terms of

class. Yeah. And being within uh the

kind of art scene because there's always

after

I

I'm getting better, but you hardly ever

see me eating in front of anybody in an

art space.

Oh, what? Really?

Yeah. Because it's the it's the shame or

the because my body in that space, it's

the shame thing. It comes from my class.

I think 100%. I don't want to be seen as

the fat dancer eating.

Yeah, 100%.

Oh gosh.

100%. I won't or I'll if I sometimes I

don't give a [ __ ] and I will, but then

I'll feel

Yeah. I I'll second guess it the whole

time. It's so annoying.

That is annoying.

Yeah. But there's also something around

that expectation of what dancers eat

that I think I also also found quite

as when I was at university as well is

people would always be talking about

that what you're having and what

you know what you're going to have for

lunch and and you know I wouldn't think

twice about having a jacket potato but

it's not always seen as like

yeah because my my mom when she when I

went to John Moors she made sure I knew

how to cook like three or four meals I

knew pasta. I pasta sauce. I was able to

cook,

you know, my boil my potatoes and my veg

and make a piece of salmon. Like

like I was able to like she'd set me up

so I could have these meals.

Uh but then

yeah, you just you just get a bit lazy,

don't you?

not healthy or

also when you know when I first sort of

like in my final years you're just poor

aren't you as a student and when you

first graduate and I can remember some

meals were literally

pasta with a drizzle of olive oil and

some Marmite

you know just and that was it where you

just have basically it's

car at the in my year at the place

at my year at the place I worked I did a

teaching assistant on the Saturdays and

then I worked at a nightclub Friday,

Saturday night.

Yeah.

And uh and I literally would have tw

everything I' have maybe like 15 pounds

for food and it would be like a 30 some

lunches be like a 30p

pot noodle pot noodle thing.

so is long ago but it's not that long

ago.

No, it's not. But like that's I just

because I didn't have any because I got

I I had to pay for my own I work anyway

I paid for my own fees then I got a bit

of a grant to have pay for some of the

fees but I'd worked three jobs the year

before to be able to go

plus I was training at the place I was

working at call center plus a nightclub

every night then being back in for 8:30

the next morning.

Unbelievable. But you just make it work

and make it happen and save and how was

I how was going to get to the place.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Um but then also you're tired. So then

also I I've said this so many times

before and other things of like there's

people on my course who were over from

other European cities and they were

living in West London paid for by their

parents who could. And there's no shame

in that. I do believe if your parents My

mom could she would.

Yeah.

But they were of course getting

massages, one massage a week in the

private pilateses lessons getting there

and I was just like

in the nightclub.

I was working the night. Yes.

But then also at the place I was good is

that when you were teaching assistant

you could get free classes, evening

classes. So I was probably the only

person taking they had these these

professional not professional but they

had like um

they had these two week sessions with

different artists

that you could go and take and I just

did them for free.

Yeah.

I took anything I could I would just

[ __ ] take say yes to

say yes yes yes or seek out and do but

it was I was tired.

Yeah.

But and in that in that sort of similar

vein Sarah were you were there any

particular like cheerleaders or people

who you think were

Yeah.

And even now

always yes um

yeah other um little outcasts around the

space

like um so I suppose

um oh my god well see um yeah god of

course yes like in when we come to

London like Luke Pel was a massive

person who went you let's go

um and like push me forward and then

other people at Canuko would were would

like put me forward for things or they

were like you got to come here and do

this and you got this and

put me in for things I was not ready to

do but they're like

you can do this.

Yeah. Um yeah, people at the place

would people at the place do like any

odd jobs they'd be like Sarah come and

help do this or come and need someone to

file this. They'd always but they would

always put me is that championing that

is that is like helping me survive and

also be when you're doing all those jobs

at the I did every job at the place. I

helped in every department

um and they would always get me in

keeping me but being in around all the

artists and getting to know them

like that's how probably like you on

lots of cory drone stuff or like

teaching things or you just kind of

you're just around

the people you look up to in your life

and and it's not virtual either. It's

real.

It's real.

Um but yeah, there's people all the

time. Yeah, I definitely have. People

are always pushing me. I can't think of

people's names, other people name right

now, but lots of Yes.

Keep going. That's radio. That's London

in sign language.

Is it?

Yeah.

Oh, wow. Really?

Yeah.

Okay.

Um I think it's BBC or something.

Uh yeah. Champions. Kate Marsh is a big

champion. Yeah.

A fellow podcaster.

Absolutely.

Yes. Again, that's part of the Kanduko

um world. I think the kind of kind of

falling into Kanduko was all was quite

lush because when you feel like a bit of

an outsider or an like you don't fit in

with the dance thing,

they kind of felt

the kind of inclusive dance sector felt

really comfortable for me to be in. I

felt like I could be myself

with my wild energy. And

and is is that why you felt like an can

you describe

why you just use that word

you felt like an outsider or why you use

that word I feel like an outsider.

Um

I don't I think I can't tell you why I

can tell you why I suppose I always I

suppose in the dance world. Okay. Number

one I think it's my my body number one

the dance world. But also I did always

feel a bit more common or I didn't speak

the right right way or I didn't feel

okay like um I'd come from the right

background like Becky who done ballet

since she was three or

I felt that I was always catching up

like I still feel them even now like I'm

still catching up like I feel like I'm

like I'm feel like right now I do feel

really good in what everything I'm doing

but I feel like I'm just getting there.

I'm like five years behind or something

or

um uh There's always that thing of

feeling like I'm not there yet, which I

think comes from a bit of shame. It

comes from

not feeling like I can be in spaces or

even though I will put that mask on and

be like, "Hey everybody, it's Sarah.

Funtime Sarah. She loves it. She's

really confident and life is great and

I'm positive." I'm also I am naturally,

it's not fake. I am a half glass half

full kind of person,

but which is what makes me drive.

Yeah.

But um Shut up and drive.

Shut up and drive.

Uh, but I suppose I think deep down it

comes from that

also like as I said before going into

that estate as a prod being a Irish

prody there's something other othering

that happened even then

also being in a single parent family

that was such a taboo even back then

there was like always different

quite a religious community as well for

sure. There's there's always that kind

of like bit different than

then wanting to go into acting. Oh no,

that's that's different. But like not

being

No, but it's interesting is that what

were the attitudes around that from your

family and your community going to do

acting?

I mean they always thought I was a star.

Yeah, of course.

My mom just was like just always

believed in whatever you would do

whatever. That's amazing.

So like there was never any qums.

There's obvious.

So they weren't afraid of you not

succeeding.

I mean, a family member has told me that

it's time to stop now and get a real

job.

The real job thing. The real job. If I

had a pound for how many times that was

said to me,

and it comes out of love because but

they want what they want. They want me

to have the kids, the f the

mortgage, the holidays, the car. And I'm

like,

I want the holidays.

Yeah.

And now maybe want the car, but it comes

out of love. Um and my mom, you know,

just been on tour, like a four-week

tour, like we got a big arts council

grant. We had£120,000 pounds from Arts

Council.

Wow.

Tour. Thank you very much.

It was um that's with access course. So

it is like under but still a massive

amount of money

like unheard of in my world. But

so that it's 11day tour and it's we're

doing everything how we wanted to access

is like [ __ ] beautiful, really

gorgeous people. 11 of us on the road

and my mom still is like

a proper job.

No, she's like, "So, do you get paid for

this?"

Wow.

And I'm like,

like it's a hobby or a project.

How How does it work? I'm worried about

you, Sarah. How do you how you can

afford to bring all these people over?

She thinks I'm in I mean, I am

responsible for these other 10 people,

but I'm also not cuz I've got a

beautiful team. Like, that's She just

doesn't understand budget for it. Yeah.

Yeah. But doesn't still doesn't

understand how it's

She came I did a musical last year and

she came to the musical and so she got

that

right.

She could understand what that was. Do

will she understand it, do you think,

when she sees it?

Well, she understood to see it.

Well, yeah, she saw it last year when I

did the first Irish tour that we did.

Um, and she's like, "Oh, you're some

woman, Sarah." But still at home when I

went back for dinner, it was So, how did

she get paid for that? How does it work?

I was like, well, you get well the

theater gives you about30 and then arts

council gives you the rest and then

and then I get paid and so uh she

worries. Yeah. And can she connect with

what the show when she sees it? Or do

you think like sometimes like for for

example my older sister who I adore and

love and she's um very supportive and

we're super close,

you know, I'll tell her if I'm doing a

show, it's the weirdy woo end of the

[ __ ]

right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Years ago, I

did an apprentichip with Scottish Dance

Theater, but I was like more of like an

assistant. Adam Benjamin made a piece.

Oh, Yeah.

And then so it's kind of

what's it called?

Shadowing.

Oh yeah,

of course. Like this.

That's how we shadow.

Shadowing as a Benjamin.

Shadowing as a Benjamin. And then um

then I went on tour as like an access

assistant to the disabled artists who

were guest singing with Scottish Dance

Theater. And we did a few tour a few

dates in Ireland.

Yeah.

And my sisters came and my sisters were

like I don't know what the hell just

happened. It was it was um he made a

piece which was gorgeous but also it was

paired with Loren's luxuria.

Oh, okay.

I saw that.

That piece just makes me cry every time

I see it.

I've not seen that piece.

I know a bit of her work. Yes.

Anyway, so anyway, but my sisters were

like I don't know what it was about.

Like didn't say they even enjoyed it. My

mom was like what I saw was like

birthing

try. And it was like

that's amazing.

I love you. She came to see Punk Alley

which is a bit more I suppose it's a

it's a show for young people. It's a bit

more on the nose quite loud. She's like

she just she was just impressed.

She's like you're some woman Sarah like

she's just impressed by my

energy or I don't know. She was just

like

well the fact that you you've done it

and you created this thing and it's

and it's there for her to see

right in front of her very eyes.

Whereas and then my and then they came

they came to the musical though and she

was just like because there was a lot of

movement in this musical. was a musical

about Oliver Cromwell and what he did to

Irish people.

Oh my god. How can you make a musical in

that? Is it was it a satire?

Yes.

For real.

Yeah. The uh House of Parliament was

Burgdine and uh it's the house. It's the

house of God.

Oh my goodness. I've got to start.

It was like And then there's another

song that's called Catholics in the

closet, but you don't know.

There could be.

Yeah. Really [ __ ]

hopefully next year.

I'll be there.

Watch this space. It's Anyway, there's a

lot of movement in it and and she really

recognized that and she was like, Sarah,

that was I cannot believe it. It was a

very good show, but you know what the

best thing was? The movement. And I'm

not just saying that because I'm your

mom.

Wow.

Beautiful.

She was saying that because she's my

mom, but honestly.

Yeah. But she noticed the moment. Yes.

Amazing.

Yeah. My mom Yeah. She's so proud. I

know. She's so proud of me, but

just can't get her head around that you

get paid for what I do.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Janet was a cheerleader for me.

Yeah.

Let's go. She was the one who wrote the

letter to Mary to say get her into that

gorgeous

She was just like

get going girl.

Yeah.

And I remember a read I should have read

it but she read my audition for Northern

the one year course thing. I didn't get

it but I read her thing and she was like

Sarah's going to be somebody in the

dance community. I don't know what she's

going to do yet but she's going to do

something.

Oh my god that's gorgeous.

I remembering

all she wrote.

Wow.

And here you are.

And here you are.

Yeah.

But Jan is someone who's always um

championed you.

Yeah.

Yeah. For sure.

And someone else still like Oh, also

another person who I really look up to

and gave me some really early Collins.

thing at the time maybe when we first

met was she did the choreographed the or

directed the 40th the 30th anniversary

of the place 20th 25th

yeah I was in that

so I was an assistant to her on that

yeah I was one of the people like

running around getting people in yeah

doing what do she wanted and then she

got me into assistant

to her on um cockto voices at opera

house

brilliant

and I haven't worked with her since but

she I'm sure she's thinks I'm sure she

does. But she but

but she'd always just because I think I

was a bit much a bit like I felt a bit

imposter syndrome

syndrome. Yeah.

But she um trusted me and she they just

laughed and she could understand. I

can't stand a word.

I must pick my words all get cooked up.

But we stayed we're not like in touch,

but I will

I've got to I'm gonna call her after

this and say I've just been talking to

Sarah Blong.

Sarah Blong.

She's gonna say the

the Sarah Blong. But you're right cuz I

feel like

Alita always chucked at me jobs that I

thought were way above my experience.

And she'd go, "No, just do it." And then

I ended up doing it and then learning

from doing it. So like those massive

scary things. No, you have to do this

Rachel.

She she is a big um empowerment of women

in dancing.

Oh totally. Hands down.

She's like woman get in front. Like get

in front. A man wouldn't even think

twice. Get in front.

Yeah.

She's like women in dances. She's like

go.

Yeah.

Because she had to fight through that.

She's she's had to be in a man's world.

Yeah. Especially she works in like opera

and she works in all these

theater, opera, film, West End, the

whole lot.

That's a man's

man's world, but it's

Yeah. Yeah. It's been it's dominated

those roles. Yeah. Those roles.

Absolutely.

Yeah.

Oh, she is an inspiration. Has there uh

so this um this might not apply, I don't

know. Has your um your class origins

ever come back to haunt you or wobble

you a bit?

um every day

or wobble me a bit or wobble you or

I mean I suppose it's it's it's um I

still take that breath walking into a

building or cuz I

any building what kind of building

like walking last year

back at university

well I had no chance to even take a

breath you both had taken me so it was

fine you in

but also I'm I lately because I'm making

work about speaking about it more and

worrying more like my class is more of

like a I don't say working class I'd say

more council class

right

I think I know that's an Irish thing as

well because I feel people are working

class in the UK have bought houses and

they

whereas in Ireland

for sure yeah

my mom still lives in our council house

and pays rent still we don't

we don't buy houses or so like a council

class or benefit class I would be I

would consider myself more

working class, but obviously now I work

in the arts. I get paid. I know I'm

middle class.

Middle class.

How do you know that? Because of what

you get paid.

Because

I mean, I was only credit for a few

months last year, right? But because I

think it was a really [ __ ] year for a

lot of people,

but uh how do I

is there something about like

is it different? And is that sort of

like your cultural knowledge now is

different

or your

I don't know.

Do you know what I mean? And and and I'm

not saying that where you where any of

us the three of us came from didn't have

any culture. Not saying that at all. And

I'm not saying that that culture wasn't

sophisticated in its own way. But

there's a diff, you know,

my my world when I left home expanded.

Yeah. Yeah.

In a massive way like

and and I knew I wanted to I left home

when I was 16.

I'd you know grown up because my mom was

a seamstress. I was in her sewing room.

The work room was the front room. That

was her workshop and I was in there from

a baby with a needle and thread in my

hand and flicking through Vogue with the

other in a in a way. So, I knew there

was like this exciting, glamorous world

beyond the mean streets of Oldm, you

know, and I wanted to get out there and

experience it.

Yes. Yes.

So, and then of So, of course, my sort

of and and I had lots of sort of

cultural communities where I grew up,

different cultural communities that were

involved with my dad's heritage, the

school I went to, the church I went to.

Yeah. playing out on the street with the

kids who I lived with and and they were

all really different.

Yeah.

But my life is not that, you know, I'm

totally middle class now, I would say.

And I sort of joke, but I remember when

my husband and I first moved up here and

we moved into the house where we

eventually bought, but we rented it at

first and I walked into this house that

we'd signed the rental agreement with

and I saw a dishwasher and I thought,

well, I'm middle class now.

Yes.

Yes.

You know, to me that was my signifier of

finally I've gone up in the world.

Yes. Interesting. Yeah.

Gosh. Yes. Yeah. What does where you

are?

So, yeah. So, what how how do you how do

you know you're middle class now?

Oh, god. I do have a dishwasher.

I know.

My dream house is to have a dishwasher

and to be able to walk from the sink,

walk five steps

to the bath, walk five.

Oh, you want a massive You want a

massive bathroom?

I don't know why. That's just my dream.

Um,

yeah. Well, I suppose it's because I

travel. I I don't know why. Why do I

No, no, but this is really interesting.

It's hard, right?

Yeah. I feel like I can't I can't

compare.

I can't compare.

Yes. I don't know because then, as I

said, and I know loads of loads of

choreographers of my generation last

year were on Universal Credit who you

wouldn't expect. They're doing big

commissions everywhere. But it was

really tough last year. There was there

was so much uh there was just I didn't

have any money come in for two whole

months. Screwed up the rest of the year.

Yeah.

Yeah.

But it didn't necessarily it scared me

but it didn't wasn't like [ __ ] but I I

had no other option and I was picking up

bits of jobs here and dog walking here

and I was doing what I could.

Yeah.

Um

I don't know. God. Yeah. What? I just

feel like I have to say I'm middle class

now. Is it Does it have anything to do

with dance?

Pardon?

Does it have any What does it have to do

with dance?

Is it like being an artist and being a

dance artist?

It probably is.

I feel like I feel like I have to

working in theaters

and going to Belgium.

And going to Belgium. Hassel.

Yes.

Chocolates.

Yeah.

Great.

My god, they're wild. Flemish uh

language is wild.

Can you do the accent, darling? No.

I wouldn't even try. But it's very like

No, no, no, don't don't don't.

I Yeah, that's interesting. I just feel

like I have to say I am because I feel

like you can't go around work in the

arts and say that you're not

or

be renting,

which is interesting because you're sort

of making art about being working

100%. Yes. Yes. Yeah,

I wear it I wear it as a as a badge of

my identity. I want people to know where

I've come from when I go in a room,

which I won't.

So I I'm I'm the last few years I ask if

I don't understand something, I ask.

What you mean by that?

I I Yeah, I may I'm not I'm not

embarrassed because people because I

needed to see that when I was growing

up. I need to see the commoners.

Yeah.

Teaching the commoners. the old common

session.

I I needed that more. I needed that. It

didn't have that. There was no work

being made about it. Obviously, I know

Gary Clark in the last few years has,

right?

But that was

he's a guest in two weeks time.

Yeah, of course. Oh my god. Well, that's

good luck, Eigore.

Next time, Gary.

You see Gary say next time. Sarah said

next time.

Funny story about me and Gary. This is a

class. Sorry.

Go on.

All right. So, I'm gonna go

which way?

Diagonals.

Oh.

And so, we're me and Gary were on tour

at Kanduko. We're doing Jerome Bell's

show.

Gary was in Kanduko.

He was in the Jerome Bell. The show must

go on.

Oh my god. I didn't know that.

And I was um like a tour. I was like

assistant tour manager. I was looking

after the cast. I was in the lovey dub

looking after the cast.

But we're doing this really cool tour

around the suburbs of Paris. Anyway,

wow. We get a day off. Yeah. Everyone

else is going to got to see all this. Me

and Gary go to [ __ ] You're at Disney.

We go in Space Mountain like four times

in a row.

I love that.

We were just like

I love that.

No, I'm not going there. Let's go.

We didn't speak a single sentence. It

was all sound

like

I just spoke in his his accent and he

sounds the whole day. All we did the two

of us.

Brilliant.

And another another dancer came with us

who who found out that he was scared of

roller coasters as we walked in.

So sat

in various scale cafes

in the cinema

with Mickey Mouse.

Yes. Bobby and Barry getting our money.

Yeah, of course you were.

Uh so of course Amazing.

So, two of us running around. We were

dizzy. Wherever you went for cafe by the

Lou and went down to the sign and

wherever is it called the sign

same.

So, that's that's what me and Gary did.

Amazing.

Yeah,

we should ask him about that.

We should ask him about that.

Get his we should start the podcast.

So, Gary, you haven't been to your

Disney

Let's make a note.

We were like, um, yeah, we're like,

she spent seven year on some Chris.

Yeah,

let's do it.

All right. Yeah,

we went to Euro Disney when I was at

college at six for performing arts,

right? But this is also a bit of a class

story.

So, it was like the performing arts

tutors and dance that were like, "We've

we we've got this trip to Paris. You're

a Disney. And it's all about like

theater and theater making and like they

booked for they taken like 30 of us

performing art students from Alden to

Euro Disney and we get there and

everything. We're all hyped and on the

first morning we I can't even we walk

into this room where we've been summoned

and it's like it's like a conference of

like 500 people

and it's like everyone is like grown up.

There's not a student in sight and I

remember our drama teacher just goes,

"Guys, it's not what we thought it was.

And she was like, "We we this isn't for

us. This is wrong." She was like, "We're

just going to have to go. Who wants to

go and see Paris?" And then we like we

drove to Par we just like got the bus.

I don't know. But I think it must have

been some sort of theater thing.

Conference. It was probably like it was

probably like an academic conference or

something. And it was just I just

remember this room and a sea of like

suits

and our tutors going, "Yeah, this isn't

right. Like this isn't for us." So like

four days in Disneyland and they just

took us into Paris and they did that

thing that were like listen if we don't

hear the bottles we don't know you've

got them and we just all got pissed for

like three nights because we just like

went to the supermarkets in Paris got

loads of vodka and just went back to the

and I remember like the tutors were just

wasted as well like having arguments

with other people in Disneyland because

we were all rowdy and people were

complaining about us and she was like

listen guys talk to the hand because

they ain't listening. It was just like

it was just an absolute calamity and we

get back it's like oh did you have a

good time? Yeah, great. Don't don't

quite know what we did.

But we had four great four days in

Disneyland and yeah went on Space

Mountain several times. Just lived on

and just wandered around seeing all the

Disney characters.

Yeah, we did go into Paris like twice

but it was like we basically went to

Walmart and went to a supermarket

like on

Right. I've got a question for you.

Would you consider

that you've leveled up?

Why and how?

Leveled up.

Leveled up.

I mean, the title of this podcast is

moving stories.

Shut up.

So, we're trying.

What do you What What might you

understand of what leveling up might

feel dirty and disgusting? Tell us why.

Because

what I saying before about like that

whole thing of I'm proud of where I come

from, but yeah, there's always this

thing of

wanting to level up.

Yeah.

I do not ever think I'm better than

anybody from where I came from.

I feel like I've always been on my own

journey, in my own lane, doing my own

thing.

But of course, so personally on my own

little competition myself, I've leveled

up and I have done stuff that I've never

thought I could do

and it's still stuff I'd love to do more

of or do.

But I

So yes, but I in terms of leveling up in

terms of going from council to middle

class, I

I don't I don't feel that's a for me

it's like a step across not a step up

maybe.

Yeah.

I'm still me guys.

I'm still me.

Really?

Me. I'm still me.

Yes. Um yeah, that feels it feels

uncomfortable to answer is like leveling

up. But

is that because do you think it's sort

of this whole notion of leveling up is a

bit [ __ ] anyway because it's sort of

it's all [ __ ] Yeah, because it's

creating a hierarchy and that's what

we're trying to

probably leave or get away from these

different hierarchies.

Yes. Yes. Yes.

But it comes with that notion of being

better than

having notions in the saying having

notions.

I Yeah. I I Yeah. I I think that's why I

always

am attracted to this people who don't

have that

toy. I'm I get attracted to

the elite who actually just want a good

time and just make good art.

Yeah.

They're not about

status.

Yeah.

I mean, we [ __ ] love a little Royal

Opera House on our CV.

Sure.

You know, because we understand what

that does.

Unfortunately,

uh, or is it unfortunate? Because maybe

that's what just what they need.

Who's they?

The Royal Opera House needs a working

class artist.

Oh, darling. Tell me about it.

Yeah.

Yes.

Oh, so I've got another question now.

Okay.

Right. And

someone sat on the floor. It's

disgusting.

It was you.

It could be any one of us cuz we're all

coming.

You've gone from Ireland. Is it

Liverpool? Can't do

Liverpool up to Scotland

and uh down to London etc. So you've

traveled, you've made all this art,

you've toured, etc., etc.

How does it feel to

be a woman?

No.

Mad as a fruit.

Give me a chance. Just

So when you go back and visit your mom

and you wander the streets, the council

house streets of where you grew up, does

that feel a bit different or do people

do you think people

like if you bumped into a do you feel

like an Ericsider back in from where

your origins were? So a few years ago,

if you asked me, I would have said yes.

Uhuh.

In Ireland, there is that little bit of

who do you think you are? Because you

live in London. Do you think you're

somebody? And so you've got to really

just stand your ground like no, that's

not me. Like that's not

There is a bit of that in my estate. No,

I don't feel that in my estate because

they still know you.

Yeah. Yeah, cuz at home at Christmas I

still go over 8:00 a.m. to Theresa's

house at Christmas morning and we still

sit in in our pajamas and we look at

what everybody's got and we talk about

it that like the traditions are always

still there. I'm still Sarah the little,

you know, wild yolk that they'd call me

gas. You're so gass Sarah, you know. So

in my state, no. When it comes to like

other people, they're definitely have

felt uh that's that's a question about

my state, but other people have felt I

do feel going back that I've got like I

used to shrink myself or like not wear

the outfit like not wear those

sunglasses I arrived in today. I

wouldn't have dare wear them in

Waterford

really.

Now I would I don't want to give a [ __ ]

Yeah.

Because there's there's been a change in

there's been a few artists um this

artist called Rachel. Oh, Rachel

Nebroen, I can't remember. I can't say

it in Irish, but she's an artist who was

in the UK and she has moved home back to

Waterford actually, dance artist,

gorgeous artist. And she's just opened

up the dance in Ireland in Waterford

even more like she's invited loads of

artists and she I went home, she invited

me to do like a workshop and just like

there's no kind of kind of like Libby

was there's just open to everyone being

involved

and I never felt that community when I

went home before. I always felt like an

outsider or

because I went to a conference once

I won't see what the conference was for

and I was asked to speak because I'd met

this lady when I was when I had an

outdoor show called Sitback and we were

in the Teraga over in near Barcelona is

an outdoor festival she's like you're

Irish what the [ __ ] what are you doing

we need you in Ireland and then she

invited me to talk about my work at this

conference

and I remember this older man was just

like who do you like is

who do you think you are

you because he was so desperate to get

out of Ireland.

Wow.

And I just that kind of thing. But no,

that's that that's not that's a class, a

separate thing. But in terms of Ireland

now, I feel like I can go back and be an

artist. And obviously now I've toured a

little bit of my own work.

Yeah.

I feel much more. But in terms of my

estate, no, I'm just still Sarah.

Even though I'm Sarah, I'm still Sarah

to them.

You're still gassy.

I'm still gas. Gas.

Gas. You're funny.

You're funny.

Like gas. Not

Yeah. I mean, I am guessing some days

with the beans and potatoes.

Um, but I don't feel No,

I'm just

And also my youth drama go back there.

They're just like so proud of me and

just like come on like that.

Yes. They're like they just love me.

She's returned. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Come back.

They love me. So, yeah. I don't think I

feel like an outsider, but yes, some

people. And that's on them. my friend

Anna Jordan who uh we were in youth

drama together and she's just she's now

runs the art scene in Waterford but

she's always like Sarah yeah let's go

but other people may not be the same

they won't listen to this anyway it's

fine

we've not talked about that

um

um I feel like I've listen back you

realize I've only math answered

everything.

No, I think you've actually answered

like

I think you've answered

other more of an answer, but then we

take away to the next thing. So,

we'll see what happens.

I feel we spoke about a lot of things.

Yeah,

I feel class dance.

I think we got everything.

I think we got it. I also think there's

something in our in our demeanor of

being working class or council council

class whatever you call yourself that

people warm to as well like there is a

warmth to us.

Yeah.

That people

sometimes I feel like

people get attracted to talking to me

because I'm like

because you're sort of like uh what do

you call it? So

approachable. Approachable. Yeah.

Approachable. down to earth.

Yeah. you know, like

and sometimes I feel like sometimes they

don't get taken seriously until

they see, oh, they realize what you not

I wouldn't say that's how people go and

go, by the way, I'm doing this project

and this project, this project

where you start talking and then and

then they go, yeah, whatever. And then

suddenly they go, oh,

like, oh, [ __ ] you want something now?

But it's also that sort of tactility, I

think, as well. when I started working

with you, I think that whole thing of

we're in this dance community doing

this, you know, this subject,

but also we like give each other a hug

and like and I think for me like

colleagues that it's like we give each

other a hug. It's like,

you know, other people, you know, in

other people's line of work, it's like

they're like,

yeah, that was

but it's also quite a class thing. It's

not just about dance, I don't think.

Well, I think it is a bit of a thing as

well because when I first got the job

here, I bearing in mind I didn't even

know what a VC was,

vice chancellor.

Oh, yes.

And so I got a job from Northern School

of Contemporary Dance, very small

conservatory institution, and I got

hired to start the dance program here.

And I had no idea until two weeks into

this job that there were like 40,000

students and two and a half thousand

staff and all these

And thank God because I think I would

have been too scared to do anything. And

and I sort of laugh now and at least I

laugh and not cringe. But when I first

met the VC at this open the launch of

the course and and we launched it at

Northern Ballet, so this ballet building

in a studio. We did a little

performance, me and Beth there. And then

I did a speech and the VC was there and

I went up and I just gave her a hug

straight away. And like you just don't

go up and hug the VC, do you?

But also, why not?

But you're right. Also this thing, it's

like again, it's this like like you were

saying earlier that like this hoisty

this like well that person has a lot of

power.

Therefore, don't just go and

oh my god, and I didn't understand the

power at that point. So I just did the

lobby thing that I've been doing my

entire career where you go up and give

someone a hug. or also I also I think

also being uh working class that yeah

that hierarchy I remember we're doing

this big community dance project at the

Tower of London Hoffes was directing it

my can do twos kind of youth company

were part of it anyway I could see we're

doing a rehearsal and I could see that

my lot

were just not in the right place and and

no one was because they were all

disabled youth no one wanted to tell

them what to do because they were like

didn't want to say the wrong thing or

whatever

And so I was like, "Fuck this. I'm not

having my kids look shit." So I just

walked up through all of Haresh's

people. I was like, "Excuse me, I'm

Sarah. I'm from uh Cano. It's okay if I

move my people." Anyway, rehearsal got

stopped. And it was just this kind of

like hierarchy of stuff. But I was like

I was like, "Oh [ __ ] that's not that

was not the right thing to do. I should

have talked to my assistant to talk to."

Oh, that's

But I just didn't give a [ __ ] I was not

saying And it wasn't halfish. Um, I'm

not saying halfish anything to do that,

but it was just the the roles or the

hierarchies in that I didn't understand

what this space was. So, I was just

like, there's a problem that needs to

get fixed. I know to fix it, I'm going

to speak to the person who's in charge.

Make sure he doesn't feel like I'm

stepping on his toes.

Um,

yeah. Yeah.

But, but it was just and that's a

complete

let's get the [ __ ] job done. That

that kind of like

go I have in me which comes from making

[ __ ] happen out of nothing kind of

Yeah.

thing. Yeah. But and yeah, no shade on

halfish. It was just like but then where

has got stopped all the stage managers

got called. Then this whole thing I was

like oh wow uh

put this chain on.

Yes. And then I was like oh

and like um one of the technicians who

used to work that was work with them was

like sarah what have you done now? I was

like I didn't mean to

but I also just didn't give a [ __ ] cuz

who gives a [ __ ] who this like

like a major respect for him. It's not

like I just didn't think it would

matter.

Yeah.

Yeah.

On that note,

on that note, what do you think we

should call this podcast Sarah?

Yeah, if you had to give it a title,

give it a name

by

Oh, this this episode. Listen up, [ __ ]

Um,

come glass slipper. No Cinderella. No

common. No working glass

class ceiling. Break the class ceiling.

Yeah.

Boom.

Right.

You got that. Here we are. Do the jingle

for freaking glass.

Breaking glass ceiling. Eagle. Record.

This is going to be really good. Get

this down. Write down. Get get the

lyrics down. Come on. Okay.

Welcome to

working class ceiling. No, break the

class ceiling. We're breaking the class

ceiling. Break the glass ceiling with

Laura and Rachel.

Break the glass ceiling with Laura and

Rachel.

Break the glass ceiling with Laura and

Rachel.

Break the ceiling with Laura and Rachel.

Ow.

And he can have that.

Thanks for listening to this episode of

the Dancing Class podcast. We hope that

you enjoy the rest of the series.

Please do keep in touch with us via

socials # levelingupdance on Instagram

and via the web page where you can also

contact the project team.