Summary:

Mohamad Yaghi from Farm Credit Canada explores how technology can democratize and transform the agricultural sector. He discusses the unique challenges farmers face and how innovative solutions can help address complex operational needs.

Mohamad brings a unique perspective on technology in agriculture, rooted in his experiences growing up in Lebanon and understanding technological resilience. His work at Farm Credit Canada's innovation hub focuses on developing solutions that directly address farmer needs, particularly around knowledge transfer and operational complexity. By leveraging extensive agricultural data and user insights, Mohamad and his team are creating tools that help farmers navigate increasingly complex technological landscapes.

Topics: Agricultural Technology, AI Innovation, Farm Management, Rural Technology, Technological Democratization, Data-Driven Agriculture

Hi, I'm Jesse Hirsch.

Welcome to the Future Herd.

Today's episode is one that I was particularly excited to record.

And the irony is that I do these intros after I've done the episode

as a kind of overture where I let you know a little bit about the guest,

a little bit about the conversation.

And this is where I do have to start with a disclaimer.

Despite my best attempts and perhaps as a consequence of Muhammad's encouragement,

we did nerd out just a little bit about the potential of AI in agriculture.

And this is where I kind of have to take a moment to situate the context

that we're currently in a bit of an AI bubble, an AI hype craze that does add

a lot of, you know, nonsense, a lot of, uh, baloney, a lot of exaggeration.

But that's why agriculture's a little different.

Because agriculture is the one area where AI really proves its worth, and not just

that, but has a potentially exponential and empowering dynamic provided we're

willing to pay attention, provided we're willing to learn and embrace the kind of

critical literacies that are necessary to make sure that the tools bend to

us instead of us bending to the tools.

And that's where Muhammad is an exceptional leader because he is

one of the, the, the few people that I've encountered in the agricultural

sector who are able to really appreciate the potential of both.

You know, on the one hand, the, the curiosity, the risk, the, the kind

of entrepreneur, entrepreneurial nature o- of being a farmer.

But on the flip side, the curiosity, the empowerment, the innovation, the

iteration that technology enables.

And, you know, this is an example where I think Muhammad is able to not

just wear those two hats, but be a translator, help create a culture of

intera- innovation around AI, around agriculture, that while there are people

doing this across the country, I'm not so, I'm not sure so many have as unique and

insightful as a perspective as Muhammads.

So again, normally in our intros, I like to give you a hint of what the subjects

are, but this time I'm not because this is the second episode in our ongoing

series around artificial intelligence.

And I really want you to lean in because I know that there are people

listening to this with a r- wide range of technological literacy, let alone AI

literacy, and I kinda want you to take my hand and, and to go on a long-term

journey where on the one hand, we go deep, but on the other hand, we maintain

your interest, uh, our comprehension and, and hopefully coherence.

And I kinda feel we did that today with Muhammad.

So, uh, let's listen in to what was for me, a thoroughly enjoyable

conversation, which I hope you enjoy even only half as much.

I

Mohamed, welcome to the Future herd.

Hey, thank you so much for having me.

Now, I, I've built a ritual where the first question I

throw to every guest is a bit of a Rach

test.

does the future mean to you?

What does the

mean to me?

this

I like this question.

I think the future is.

is technology that is enabling you to really

expand whatever your strength is.

And I know that sounds really generic, but you know

I think,

um, a lot of different things in my life, but also just even working

with family and, uh, and whatnot.

Uh, I just think about.

You know, everything we do really well.

Like how can we ex like, make it exponential basically.

So in a really cool way, I think technology is gonna

help elevate our advantages,

I think at the same time.

there's gonna be a lot of gaps in it.

And I think when we're, the way we're growing tech today we're it's grow,

it's growing way too fast, you know, uh, in terms of us being able to

regulate it and monitor it in a way that it can grow in a healthy way.

So hope.

hope we can balance that approach.

I don't think we will, but I think in terms of just the future and where

we can go with it, uh, I've never been more excited than I am today.

Right on.

And, and I kind of play this game as interviewer.

I'm only allowed to kind of ask questions based on the

material that the guests give me.

And I do want to come back to the word strength.

'cause I think we should talk about the strength of Canadians.

Uh, the.

AgriFood sector.

I think that would be a fun

thread for us to play.

But this is our second episode where I get to talk about AI

and,

excited about ai.

I talk to everyone I can about ai.

So I wanna start by saying

I do have to resist the urge to nerd out.

I hope you will help me with that over the course of today's conversation.

at all.

Oh, okay.

We're, we might be in for trouble.

all Hope ye who enter, uh, and, and, and I usually this.

Second question I throw at a guest is kind of like a lore or an origin

question, and in your case, where did your relationship with technology begin?

Like when did you decide that this was an area that not only merited your curiosity,

aligned with your professional path?

You know, can I take this in a really weird

Please do.

direction.

Okay.

So, growing up, I, I didn't grow up in Canada.

I grew up in everywhere by Canada, um, and for a long time.

So I'm Lebanese by heritage.

I mean, I'm Lebanese, uh, as well right now.

And, um.

You know, growing up in Lebanon, the thing that you really get to see compared to

Canada is there's so much accessibility in Canada for a lot of different things, like

when it comes to, let's say electricity, water, like the simple stuff, right?

So everything is.

Lebanon, always trying to access it.

Uh, and somebody, uh, aptly told me once that Lebanon is the future and

lebanon's the future, not because it's gonna have the most high tech stuff,

but because of, you know, every, um.

that nation feels or suffers.

So like the acute effects of climate change, the, uh, the impact of, um,

you know, mismanaging national finances as we see in the country right now.

like, and, and again, like you're, you're able to see these issues

amplified before they impacting others.

I can't

climate change enough with this, uh, answer.

So, because always.

Felt the burden of, you know, geopolitics and a lot of different issues way in

the future, or like way before anybody else, let's say, uh, the impact of

water shortages or, uh, let's say the, the, uh, a broken food supply system.

Um.

You had to rely on technology, and technology is such a democratising

force, and I know that sounds cliche, but I can be really specific, it's

democratising because it enables you to be able to operate on your own

without having to depend on anyone.

So I guess my relationship with technology comes from that foundation.

It's that.

You don't have to rely on anybody with that technology.

So today, you know, on the, the farm that, um, my father and I help manage, like we

use a lot of different tech technical, uh, software technology features,

um, and we use it for that purpose.

It's just, you know, it helps us rely on ourselves as opposed to

having depend on anybody else.

So

I guess.

story when it comes to my love for technology.

on.

Right on.

And your point about democratisation I think is incredibly relevant when it

comes to agriculture and when it comes to the way in which farmers think of their

tools and think of their technology.

It used to be, you could say that technology was democratising

and people would just go, yes.

I think right now it is a bit of a contentious statement,

social media being exhibit A,

but I feel that literacy is a major enabler of that.

That if you

can enable greater literacy, that's what enables technology to be democratising.

So give me a sense of how you're

attempting to do that or accomplishing that.

In the Canadian agricultural sector,

How, how, how are you enabling a literacy and a curiosity of technology

a culture, whether farming or not?

Where I think people are kind of suspicious of technology

for a range of different reasons.

reasons.

Okay, I'm gonna give you a super

Answer.

So I, you brought a really good point about social media.

When to social media.

the foundation of social media was democratising because it

enabled users to operate their social networks in their own way and the

influence of algorithms and other.

Advertorial purposes on these platforms were not there.

So they weren't pushing users in a specific direction.

They weren't pushing things content specifically towards them.

It was much more user generated or driven.

the way I, I would see it.

And I think somebody recently asked me that question.

I really that another podcast.

So I love that you brought that up 'cause now I can reframe my answer

'cause I've given more thought to it.

Uh, ahead though.

Um,

comes

It

comes to,

in agriculture, would argue farmers have always been on

the cutting edge of technology.

Like, think about the different risks that you have to manage on your farm.

Like, I've worked at General Electric, like there was this concept called

the Brilliant Factory, where you would have a floor and the beginning of

each day, the teams would be able to decide what they wanted to do that day.

Uh, it was a very cooperative system.

And whatever was decided as the plan of the day, they were executed.

But you're working in an environment where you've eliminated external environmental

cer like uncertainties, right?

supply chain scenarios of course, would pop up, but in terms of like what you're

actually dealing with, like very much, you had a blank canvas where external, the

external environment wasn't impacting you.

When it comes to agriculture, think about like the number.

mean, just in soil alone, like six two thirds of the world's

biodiversity is just in soil alone.

So imagine you're dealing with,

And the key two thirds,

the key two thirds, if we don't have that biodiversity in soil,

the rest of the biodiversity.

I digress, please.

no, exactly.

So like, imagine, so that's, so I think like we look over that often.

So it's like, so you have two thirds of that biodiversity that you have to cont

content, but that's just in soil alone.

Think about the right, like just think your, of your external environment,

your ecosystem, uh, think about, you know, just wind is for example as well.

What do you spray?

How does that all combine together?

You're dealing with millions and millions of variables.

So when it comes to agriculture, first off, farmers are

always taking immense risk.

Year over year.

Secondly, when it comes to technology adoption, I would argue

they're, they've always been on the cutting edge of adoption.

But the issue has been days

You have

of different companies that are emerging and rightfully emerging.

So, and you're operating in a more competitive space.

So sometimes it might come off as they don't want to test it,

but they don't wanna test it because you're asking them to.

Risk time on somebody that is already risk risky within an industry that is already

contending with, again, millions of risks.

So

and it.

risk to them.

Right.

You know, you take the phrase, the bleeding

edge, and in agriculture it really could be a bleeding edge,

and, and, and that's why that risk is kind of buried in.

Please continue.

Yeah.

No, no.

Yeah.

But this is to your point, right?

Um, and I think yes, exactly about bleeding edge.

And I think

When you look at like,

of technology, if it works, they'll use it like the

self-propel combine, eliminating 10 jobs.

Yes.

That's, that's the way to go

I think.

to software.

are entering a new age.

I was talking, I was actually telling a few folks on the team this week about

what I think the next wave of artificial intelligence and the way I define it.

First of all, uh, AI is advanced statistical pattern recognition.

There are multiple tools.

Of a, of accomplishing what this definition of AI is.

Um, and it, it can come through many different forms, but when we're, what

we're seeing with the Gentech AI right now, I think we're gonna be coming to

a paradigm within agriculture where AI can be more easily adopted because

as opposed to 2019 where there wasn't really a lot of data to collect, we're

now in a scenario where there's too much.

So how can.

Agents connect the dots with the multiple data entries and again,

platforms that farmers are using today to make sense of their operations.

And then also highlight different, I guess, uh, next steps for them, right?

Because they need a bit of a guardian angel.

I think those agents can be, uh, those guardian angels.

I'm calling it operational persistence, but that's a longwinded answer

No, that, that's a, that was a fantastic answer, and, and it

allows me to, to throw you a big curve ball w with an anecdote in the middle,

a self-serving anecdote because y you said something that is an obsession

of mine, which I'll, I'll reframe as.

Making the on-ramp to the agricultural sector as easy and accessible as possible,

right?

Making it really simple for us to attract not just talented people to

the sector, but curious people, right?

who want to bring new ideas and, and new challenges.

for me, as a small farmer, obviously we have labour issues.

one of the biggest labour issues is that me and my partner, sometimes

we have to leave the farm.

And if we want someone to come and do our chores or do our responsibility,

there's a bit of a, a knowledge handoff that has to happen.

So in January, I built an open claw instal

manages all our farm chores.

So at any point I can.

Someone come in and the open claw will walk them through how to mix

the mineral feed for the pigs, right?

Or the open claw will help them go through all the steps.

So just on a knowledge management level, it it's a vision of how

agents can make that kind of labour management even easier.

So here's.

The, one of the questions I wanted to ask you today, which is both

self-serving, but also I think speaks to leadership and organisation,

you've got a choice gig,

the innovation hub at FCC.

How do you guys keep up, like we are witnessing such a rapid rate of

technological change that whether it's ai.

Or whether it's the broader technological industry, right?

There's new models, there's new drones, there's new robots, there's

new combines, there's new tractors.

there's

do you practise the art of innovation when innovation is

happening at such a breakneck speed

that I'm assuming as an organisation that has to be one

of the issues you tackle with,

or am I wrong?

Am I just fantasising here?

just

No.

no.

I, I, love, uh, the question.

So, so I lead, uh, ag Expert and the Innovation Hub at FCC,

I think

roles

Expert is Farm Credit, Canada farm management software that

we've had for over 23 years on it.

We provide two tools, accounting and field.

what's really interesting.

role is the use of information we have right

now and how can we use that information to help the sector.

historical data.

And I think in terms of just using, you know, historical data, I don't

think anybody else in the industry has access to it because we have activities

and then we have financial outcomes and we're able to link the two actual

credible intelligence to the industry.

So I wouldn't say that's all technology, but it's, it's a bit of

a mind shift to like focus on like a, on a huge problem for the industry

And, and

I, I would also give you credit there worth highlighting

it gives you a user base.

So you actually have users, you have data, right?

You, you, you have an insight into user experience that a lot of

companies may not have.

Please continue.

have.

No, no, exactly.

Thank you for that actually is like a much better answer than I had.

Uh, but I would Yeah, like to that point.

Exactly.

We have users, we have over 28,000, um, so.

That gives me like a test bed of applications where we can like test

and refine ifferent technologies and

best technology, in my opinion is

you don't,

like you're actually seamlessly starting to use these

like analytics in your operations and you don't have to like the on-ramp

time to use it is super minimal.

On the flip side, we have something called the innovation hub, and in it

there is a team called the Innovation Lab, which is basically our r and d group.

I would say.

what we're testing and functioning, the newer,

bolder, aspirational innovations.

Uh, we've come out with like a large language model called root ai, but

when it comes to like next steps.

It's fascinating to see like what is what, what's the bleeding edge?

Uh, and it's great because we're able to test bleeding edge technologies,

but grounded in information our team also collects, which is

customer sentiment information.

So to answer your question, finally.

The way we, we, we go about it is not to test technology for technology's sake.

It always is rooted in the customer problem.

Like what is it that they're dealing with that they want solved?

Uh, and what is a service that FCC can provide that isn't available today?

So again, knowledge and advisory is a huge issue in the sector

because of a lot of changes that have happened over the past decade.

what we're providing.

We're providing these simple services.

So again, when we talk about, uh.

knowledge transfer between the, the, the, like the, the generation going off

the farm to this incoming generation.

That's a huge knowledge transfer gap we need to

Yeah.

to the decline of extension services, that's a knowledge

transfer gap we need to address.

Uh, when it comes to, uh, rural revitalization with the loss of jobs

like let's say legal firms or accountants because of changing dynamics in rural

communities, that's a knowledge gap too.

So how can we provide that?

Um, that, that the tech, how do we fit the technology we see

today to address those questions?

So that's how we try to merge the two together and try to test it as fast

as possible because we should be the institution for Canadian Ag where

again, where we can test and fail, uh, because then we can share those

learnings with the agricultural community.

Now the, the reason I kind of highlighted the value of the

user base is, you know, not just 'cause I understand that in software terms,

I think you've emphasised.

The value there from knowledge terms and from knowledge transfer terms.

So a a, a kind of two-sided question.

On the one hand,

do you have capacity to engage them in the design process to

engage users in understanding their needs and bending the tools to their needs?

And

on the flip side.

Are there users who want that?

Like are there users who are flooding you with feature requests and, you know,

about the software and, and, and pushing you to go to new places?

me a sense of the user culture that, you know, ag expert and

consequently the innovation hub

are, are able to access.

are, are able to access.

a broad spectrum of, we have everybody, uh, and it's amazing.

You

you can see the folks

like.

use Claude to build, um, infrastructure for their own

firms and operations, and it's amazing to see, to what I was talking about

before, the democratising effort.

They're able to use these tools for their own benefit.

And they're also able to help us push the bleeding edge.

Like do we, can we just have an API connection and we just share data with

you and you can manage however you want the data on your farm, right?

That's like one option all the way to folks who are a little

sceptical, sceptical, uh, SSP sceptical of technology.

also a really good use case for us to test and see and refine the process so

we don't make it feel as if they have to climb up a mountain to learn it, it

can be a bit adaptable to their needs.

So we have a broad spectrum of people, of users on, on the Ag expert

platform, but that even with the innovation, uh, lab that we have.

W again, we, we constantly test with users because we need to be customer

obsessed because the industry, again, God bless us, we have a big country.

have to be able to manage the different requirements and features

that they're demanding of us, and we try to make their requests as.

Seamless as possible to like enter our system and help build, um, of course

we have to manage it appropriately, but like we want to make, it's, it's a bit

of a circular like feedback loop, right?

Uh, because fundamentally at the end of the day, it doesn't matter what

type of technology we use, it has to help the, help them in their problem.

Otherwise it's not worth pursuing, I think.

Um, but it's still good to, you know, have a. A foundation to test new technology

with, especially what we're seeing with like, um, AG agentic AI right now.

Especially, uh, you know, the, the, I I don't know if you've had, you've

read recent stories on end in labs, for instance, and what they were doing

with, uh, agents managing a store or, or a vending machine like that.

This is like.

This is where we can start testing the bleeding edge of it

and see like what actually works.

And then as a Crown Co corporation, we're in a really ideal position because we

can reduce the risk for our producers, 'cause we can share those learnings

with them or create something where they can use it as a testing ground.

And if they feel like they need to acquire its solution after using it,

they, actually have some knowledge to do that more confidently.

Well, and you know, to your point of the Crown Corporation,

where do you see open source fitting into all this?

And, and that's again, a double-edged question.

'cause on the one hand,

source is driving a lot of the ecosystem right now.

I mentioned open claw, right?

It, it sort of kicked off an, an open source AI revolution.

The AG agentic space right now is dominated by open source projects

and a Crown corporation.

Unlike, say a traditional financial institution

have kind of social enterprise tendencies, for lack of a better

word, that suggests there is a bigger picture that is part of the mandate.

that is.

Part of the mandate.

So.

I think a

of

Innovation

that

we've

come

seen

okay, open claw is one example, but when we look at

other technologies, like when you

us, some of the biggest leaps that were that

was

happened.

of, uh, departmental funding.

Like Silicon

Yeah.

there because of the DOD, because they're able

to bear the brunt of that risk.

So at FCC, we're able to brunt.

That risk, like, again, not all the risks all the time, but like a good portion

of it, uh, we're able to like back ourselves, like we're able to fail fast.

Um, and that's where I think the power of a Crown Corporation can

come in because we reduce that risk, but also at the same time the,

we're the bearer of standards too.

So.

want to play, help the market, you know, have a system where, again,

if it's something simple, somebody isn't overcharging for that as well.

Like we're able to provide really great, great tools, but be the bare

of the standards so that others in the market know what they need

to do in order to attract users.

Um, and you know, how to appropriately charge them as well.

Like, that's the way I see it as well.

'cause when we look at, again, innovations that have come

through, uh, the biggest, I mean.

It you, all you have to do is look to the US to see, like the SBIR programme,

um, the different funding tools that every department in the US has to put

aside just for innovative projects.

Like the DOD has funded projects, uh, that are unrelated to defence, right?

So it's like they're able to stimulate the economy in that way,

and that I see a Crown Corporation playing in a similar space as well

to help stimulate innovation too.

Right on.

I, I may use that against you at some point in the future.

the

one of the other questions that

I like to throw at our leaders is kind of the vantage question.

It's the perspective and, and it goes to this hypothesis I have

that part of what makes a leader is they see things, others don't.

And part of the privilege of being an institution

it affords you a glimpse of the sector that that may be unique.

And in your case, I wanna frame that in the context of innovation

because on the one hand, you know, you get to see, I think a lens of

what's happening in the agricultural sector and you asserted it at the

outright by saying rightly so, that

are often at the forefront of innovation and, and responsibly doing that.

You're also at Mars, the Mars Discovery District in Toronto.

Right, which is one of the kind of hubs across.

The country.

And of course I suspect you pay attention globally, not just 'cause

of your connection to farming in Lebanon, but 'cause you're

clearly a, a smart and curious guy.

So what do you see when you look out on the innovation landscape?

You know, what catches your eye and, and what are the things that,

think the rest of us,

should be paying attention to,

not just on the level of trends.

But on the level of kind of institutional capacity and institutional, uh,

uh, uh, capability building.

'cause that's kind of what you do at FCC, right?

Is to anticipate the services, the tools, the technologies

that your users and the broader sector will require?

I

I think, you know, it's,

love that question.

Thank you for all the.

I love them.

And, you know, honestly, great questions today.

I, I've been really enjoying this chat.

Uh, I, I want, I don't want to be too abstract with the way I approach this,

but I. I think we do a disservice to ourselves when we only focus on what are

the Americans doing, and this is not to put the Americans in a corner and say

that, you know, anything of the sort.

It's more to say we miss what's happening globally, uh, I think we, we, we miss

like the chance of really leapfrog in a. the, the competitiveness space

because what I think our obligation is as a Crown Corporation is to put our

in the

Industry

position to be globally competitive.

and when I see what's happening

in the US uh, but even, you know, down south to Brazil.

Uh, when I see what's happening in Southeast Asia,

outside.

American market, and if I look at Brazil and Southeast Asia,

I see some really interesting trends when it comes to how do you use your

data to make your commerce faster.

Uh, and when I say commerce,

really about utilising,

you have on hand to.

Increase the ability for you to,

again, process, whatever you need to

Like instead of going and, you know, like, uh, to a bank waiting a

few days or weeks in order to get whatever financial product you're applying for,

why can't that be near instantaneous and.

With the advent of, again, the different agents we're seeing today,

uh, connecting the dots, how can we utilise that technology to make our,

you know, our system of commerce faster?

And I think this is gonna be, have an impact, a dramatic

impact in all of our lives.

Because if we're able to leverage technology and data, not only from

what we're producing on the farm, but even different dynamic data, uh, we're

able to build that intelligence into our systems and become more a debt.

Again, entrepreneurs, uh, 'cause again, every farmer is an

entrepreneur in their own right.

But how can we use that information to leverage it for our own intelligence so

we can make the best decisions possible?

And again, it might sound a little abstract, but happy to dive deeper into

Well, and let, let me ask a, a relevant follow up to that.

'cause I, I think you

articulated the opportunity in, in a really powerful way.

'cause on the one hand, America does dominate our perspective because

they're so big, because they're so lucrative and naturally economically.

We think about them first.

But there are all sorts of global opportunities out there, right?

Both on the export level and even on the import level.

And it strikes me one of the obstacles is literacy and intelligence.

That one of the things you could do with agents, right, with dashboards

use that data to make that information more available to Canadian producers,

more available to Canadian,

to

processors and people in the AgriFood sector.

that we were able to have the nimbleness and resilience to make these, uh,

jump on these opportunities.

Am I overreading you or is this part of what you're trying to evoke here?

No, no, I think that's part of

I'm trying to say, and I think you.

with the utilisation of this information and intelligence,

I think you

this,

knows that.

I've heard

past couple years where, this is not only specific to

agriculture, but to Canada and as a whole, like we're very risk averse

and we need to take bolder bets and bigger, uh, again, we have to hit again.

Uh, uh.

Whatever opportunity we can get.

think one of the things that have been pushing us back is our

inability to see the intelligence before we can make a play.

And if we're able, again, to use these agents to connect the dots.

To patterns, as I mentioned at the beginning about like how I define a ai.

Like if we're able to look at those patterns that are not discernible to

the naked eye or somewhat immediately able to process and understand, that

gives us such a competitive advantage globally and that's how we can

reduce our risk, but also give us the opportunity to make bolder bets as well.

So I think overall, um, you know, we're seeing oncoming is not.

Only about, um, again, like what can an agent do, can imagine your entire

farm, maybe potentially in the future.

But I think more importantly is that intelligence that it'll be able to give

us at the tip of our fingers almost

And

how

would we, how do we deploy it at a societal level as well?

I think that's,

things for me to see.

see and, and now we get to take this interview and play

it the way I do with an LLM in that I love to take a context window,

load it with all sorts of contradictory information and then continue to throw

queries at it to see if I could break it.

break it.

Maintaining the metaphor we've just described of

intelligence and opportunity and, and, and resilience and data.

I think you are the first guest we've had on the podcast

had the courage to put climate change on the table.

And it's not that the other guests

have avoided climate change, it's just I think a lot of people in the

sector kind of don't want to go there because it is filled with anxiety

and it can be kind of contentious.

context of our current conversation,

volatility

a lot of opportunities for the sector, right to respond to crises,

to adapt to extreme weather,

anticipate drought or anticipate floods and mitigate it.

And so I think where you and I have not just courage, but see

opportunity in leveraging the data for that kind of responsiveness,

how are you communicating that?

How are you conveying that value proposition?

And I'm not suggesting that the sector is against climate,

climate change quite the opposite.

I think there're adapting quite effectively.

I just don't think they're talking about it as, uh.

Proudly as they should,

as they

the innovation we could be leading on a global scale.

that was a mouthful.

Bail me out here, Mohammed.

out here, Moham.

Okay.

again, Jesse, what are these questions?

I love this.

Um.

As a sector, I think there's an imp look

Look at that.

report.

Uh, I think the average emissions, um, you know, uh, from the ag

sector is maybe 63 megatons.

correct.

If

it

lower,

I'm.

be a bit higher.

But around that range think is, it doesn't tell the story completely because it

completely skips out on carbon sinks when you take all of Canada together.

Um.

believe that in our soils alone, we have over 25 years of manmade emissions

just store captured in our soils.

And that's not, that's including farmland, but then also pea in swamps

and marshlands, um, all of Canada.

in of itself a financial opportunity because we're storing that

carbon in our soils and, and.

Even though there may be, um, you know, a few studies out there that

have mentioned that because of our conversion of pasture land to crop land,

we might've lose lost some of those, um, you know, some megatons of carbon

Uh, I think the story,

often.

Overlook is the fact that when it comes to farming itself, what

are the fundamentals of soil?

MPK, organic Sea and Organic

is.

carbon.

It's something that is fundamental, it's an ingredient for our soils.

So again, the way we brand it, I think has maybe not always been in the right

direction or been helpful for our, again, to talk to a lot of our producers because

it's always coming from an angle of.

The sector is doing something wrong as opposed to look at all the

great things that's contributing to our national inventory.

Um, it counts.

Uh, how do we celebrate that and how do we recognise producers who have done, again,

the, who have been stewards of their land for decades and de centuries potentially?

Um, and then how do we

to

Continue.

Right.

So when it comes to climate change.

I think the conversation really needs to lean towards the lens of.

Again, recognising the practises that have been conducted, but then

also at the same time, how do we find the opportunities through the data?

And this is something that we're actively looking at Ag expert.

How do we look at that information so that if you're asking a producer

to convert a practise, you're actually able to help them understand

what is the downside of that?

Change because changing a practise, let's say you're converting your line

to cover crops, you're gonna take years to potentially come back to those

yields that you were previously seeing.

Like you were giving, you're asking somebody to, to lose money for a few

years in order to capture more carbon.

And now, while.

When you look at it.

like a high level, of course capturing more carbon

from the atmosphere is great, but how does that really help a

producer be sustainable financially for their own farm and operation?

So it has to go hand in hand.

So I really see the information we get from our farms today is be as the unlock

towards this next, uh, ad advantage that we can have as an industry too.

Well, and, and for two reasons.

On the one hand, I think we made a, a terrible mistake.

I think the, the scientists made a terrible mistake in treating

climate change as an abstraction

rather than grounding it in, to your point, people's operations

or people's experiences.

And I think.

Similarly to your other point, that's why we need the data to demonstrate the

return on more sustainable practises.

the science is there, like the science, whether it's

in which, you know, the cover crop takes a little while for

the fertility to come back,

or it's just the change management that allows the new practises

to be implemented successfully.

think there is a great opportunity to have both the data and the benchmarking

justify these different practises.

But to your point, it has to be removed from shame.

It has to be removed from admonishment.

It has to be removed from the adversarial nature that this

particular policy area has created.

By all means, you can elaborate on that, but this allows me to elevate

us to another card on the table,

is conspiracy and disinformation, right?

Because there, there is no paradox to the idea that on the one hand

we've never had more information,

never had greater tools, we've never had more access to science

and the ability to do research.

to

While we're sitting in an abundance of nonsense

of

and reconciling those two in a communications environment, I would

not be able to ask two most ag leaders.

But part of your authority, part of your leadership lies from the fact that you

are a phenomenal communicator and you've been demonstrating that throughout this.

that throughout this.

So again, I'm trying to break the context window by throwing

every possible query I can at ya.

so go wherever you wish,

this latest, uh, snowball of, uh, uh, information.

Jesse, I need you more of my life.

My God.

I will take you up on that.

Please

the,

Um.

so I think it, like, again, it's, uh, maybe I, I don't wanna, I don't

wanna cop out of the answer on one hand.

It's the foundations.

why we have a large language model at FCC.

And again, I think it's, it's not about the, the, the tools in of I

don't wanna quote Marshall Mc Lu, that the medium is the message.

Right.

But I do have to use that to an extent.

The,

Sometimes the.

use will have.

Uh, impact on the way you receive information.

And I think there's, um, again, I'm not, uh, a communications expert in

terms of like how the communication is absorbed by general, the general

public or the general ag community.

But when it comes to like, let's say a large language model

hallucinating, that's an issue, right?

And we need to content to to that.

And I know that's not part of what you're asking, but I'll get to

But it totally is.

one of the reasons.

mean like,

I.

like I want to nail the head on it though.

Well, when it comes to.

let's say hallucinations, that's why, that's what inspired us

to start our l large language model.

'cause we wanted to work with different agencies to give us information so

that we can create trusted and curated agricultural sources for any, any

responses that the, the tool will make.

So that's one hand when it comes to the general, um.

Uh, you know, the, the misinformation that we, we see on a grand scale.

I think it's because we might from, it's, I think it's a design problem

to an extent because the way people receive information these days

so,

Is,

maybe they lost the service.

So I'll talk about extension services for a second.

Extension services.

The decline of it in terms of, um, the ability for people to have a

trusted advisor within the community.

Again,

I'm not saying.

system, and again, I don't have any opinion on, you know,

the way it's changed over the years.

I think it's more of the loss of that advisor in a community

have an impact on the way people receive trusted information.

Because when you have that vacuum.

Of, uh, trusted information, no matter what context it's in, whether

it's through a person or through a tool, a digital tool, uh, you don't

have an appropriate replacement.

like there's gonna be a vacuum and other tools, will come in and take

over those voices and be, try to become those trusted, uh, advocates

for whatever position they have.

So I think that's a bit of the, the, the, the, the.

The, tension we're feeling, it's like it's a design problem to, to the extent

as well, not only a technology problem.

Well, and let me get you to elaborate on that.

'cause I think, you know, to talk about, say, the role of

design in Ag expert, right.

In, in, in distinguishing it as

a, a software that serves a specific user base, but also ensuring that that software

continues to serve that user base.

to

use that as.

Kind of a case example to talk about

you see the role of design within the larger kind of innovation

strategy that you get to entertain.

that you get to entertain.

Yeah,

and I think it's,

it's, it's a bit of a

right?

Because like we tested users, we learn,

iterate, and I think, um, through that iteration, we're able

to design a better product because it should, again, like I've, I've

said this a few times in our chat.

It's.

You know, it's really about making sure that whatever user uses technology, they

don't feel like they're using technology.

Even though, again, accounting platforms are going to feel

technical no matter what you do.

It's an aid.

It is an age old problem, but how do you make it, do you make the

experience seamless for them so that they're not feeling that?

They're using a tool or a digital tech, like a digital interface.

It's more of an experience.

And I think that's one of one of the things that like we try our very best

to address when it comes to other ways of, of sharing that information.

And I'll pose this as a que a general question.

How have we been able to that the information we share is actually being.

Digested, how is it being interpreted?

And I think, again, I don't know what design steps we've taken to ensure that

those decisions or policy mechanisms out there have been designed to really address

the needs of different communities.

Again, it's not to say that they have or haven't, but it's more to say,

we, um, and I think be, if we're able to unlock the way that we can reach

out to people, again, the same way we look at our technology product,

I think we'll see far more success.

Well, and that's kind of matching the process

with the product as a iterative

cycle that makes the, the, the two stronger.

And, and, you know, all, all of this, all of this kind of makes

me, you know, come back to another.

Node that I use in my interviews with leaders.

You know, I, I sort of do the, what do you think of the future and,

know, kind of what's your vantage point?

And in your case, because we've been having this kind of

sprawling conversation, I'm, I'm not gonna frame it too much.

I'm, I'm just gonna kind of,

serve it up and, and you can hit it however you wish.

But what do you, from a policy perspective, what catches your interest?

Like, I, I'm gonna operate on the assumption.

That because you pay attention to enough of the pieces within the

sector and within technology, which is this whole other kind of mess.

What are the policies that pique your interest?

What are the policies that you know, you think should get more attention?

Or even more so, what are the policies that you kind of got in

your back pocket that you're wishing for some, you know, fool like me

to ask you to play on the table.

you to play on the table.

Oh no, you're no fool.

Um, I would, so, you know, I, I, I, I generally avoid policy questions because

of my status in a Crown Corporation.

Um, but maybe I can talk about.

what do I see at large trends, um, that are emerging?

I, you know, I think the, the fact, I think we in Canada

have an amazing opportunity.

Um.

I think, you know, in terms of national unity, that's one thing.

Uh, and I'm loving seeing that.

But I think when it comes to our place on the global stage,

I think.

uh, a generational, maybe even, you know, multi-generational

opportunity for us to really take a bigger swing at the world stage.

Um.

And I think because of the status of our Agri Ag and AgriFood sector,

we

think that.

had no better time than today.

I mean, like we've in FCC have launched, let's Grow Canada.

Uh, I'm sure you've seen it.

Um, it's an actual effort to really celebrate ag, but I think it's like,

how do we take it one step further and it's really to look outside of

Canada to see where can we again, help.

the void when it comes to food insecurity.

Like we have a responsibility as a nation.

And I don't not only say this as who's Lebanese and has seen the impact of

a food chain supply chain breakdown multiple times in my life, um, but I

also see it as, you know, in our wi in.

way we have, you know, adapted our system to be global in nature.

What is a, what's that next step and how can we take that next step?

I think that's one of the most important questions for the industry today.

There's always gonna be a niche, uh, policy that some groups will want to, to

vouch for, but I think one of the bigger opportunities right now is how can we be.

As entrepreneurial as possible, breaking down those doors, creating

those relationships with other jurisdictions, um, and sometimes

pressure creates opportunity.

I think this, this is one of those moments, uh, and leveraging all

the tools that are disposal will only enable us to do this further.

So, like for instance, in Ag Expert at the moment, you know, we're building out.

Analytical tools based on 23 years of data, how can we help other countries?

Not only, um, you know, how can we share that in that

knowledge with other countries?

How can we be that world leader to be, you know, to make Canada the world's

sustainable breadbasket That's, you know, the future I see for us, and if

there's one step that I really hope that we can take as an industry is to really

look outside of our borders to see.

What, you know, where can we strike up those partnerships?

Because again, I think we're in a really unique situation, not

only as a branding exercise as a country, but also as an industry

So I, I a hundred percent align with that.

And, you know, as an aside, I would love to see

I

literacy around those opportunities.

'cause I,

I'm not sure a lot of people outside of the leadership of the sector

understand the depth and, and the breadth of, of those opportunities.

I, I wanted to, uh, uh.

But I, I wanted

Match what you just said to uh, perhaps a naive thought,

which is

I think of the Mars Discovery District, when I think of the Vector

Institute, when I think of the University of Toronto, I kind of think

of this global reputation at least.

We used to have, I don't know if we still have it,

we are an AI powerhouse, that we're kind of a tech powerhouse.

Is there an opportunity to kind of

have dance partners between tech and agriculture

both of those sectors to court the global stage and be like, look at

the assets that Canada uniquely has.

And by the way, we're not Silicon Valley so you can trust us.

Like

do you see a play there or am I being silly?

am I being silly?

I know, I totally see it.

the

I think that's

to, to ensure that we get,

like one thing I always

is, you know, again, I'm veering into more

territory.

I, I don't want us to compare ourselves to other jurisdictions when, let's

say like Silicon Valley to North.

We are, we don't need to be.

We can be our own thing.

And I think that being our own thing is gonna make us even better.

Um, because again, Silicon Valley has its own origin stories and it has its

own, um, you know, mission and purpose.

And I think we as Canadians have our own mission and purpose as well.

And I think we are much more global when it comes to the

impact of the technology we built.

So I don't see why we, and again.

Looking at Toronto, it is a reflection of the world.

I, I believe more than 50% of Toronto's population is foreign born.

Like no other city in the world has that stat.

I think that's something to celebrate, uh, because we are that,

uh, global village to an extent.

Uh, I, I mean, I don't know what other, I don't know who could define themselves

as a global village, if not Toronto.

So celebrating not only our diversity, but the fact that, you know, we have so many

mechanisms to leverage Canadians with ties outside Canada to help I help boost those

exports, help boost those partnerships and connections, help boost the, the

technology that we're building today.

And I think us being more bold in our vision about, again, I love the,

the way you framed the, that dance between agriculture and technology.

think we are on the cutting edge of it today, and I don't see any

reason, you know, outs and if you look at the commitments FCC, um, has

made, um, over the past year, um, I think it's just a reflection of our

commitment to helping the sector make that, um, make, make, make that step.

Well, and again, I think you, you and I are, are in our jam

today are striking very similar chords.

'cause I've previously written about how the secret to Canada becoming a superpower

is embracing our diasporas.

Embracing our, our networks of diasporas.

Our ecosystems of diasporas.

'cause

of

comes through Toronto, Montreal, Calgary, and Vancouver.

And if we could leverage those a. On the level of food which is already happening,

and leverage that on the level of agriculture.

That's what allows us to your point, to feed the world, to be

the sustainable bread basket.

what is the, from your perspective, and this is me trying to wrap it up,

where does leadership fall into that?

And, and obviously I've been trying to celebrate your leadership through

the course of this conversation,

but, but this is where you get to.

know, thi this is where I'm not trying to put it all on your shoulders, right?

I'm not saying that

you, Mohamed, you need to save us as a sector.

This is where you get to push the,

you get to push the hot potato forward.

You get to help me think about the questions I asked a future guests.

'cause I think you've done a fantastic job of framing the opportunity

and incentivizing us as a sector to step up to the challenge.

But I guess here's the question.

What are we missing, right?

What, what, what are the pieces that our leadership that, uh, the

various elements of our sector

maybe you take for granted,

but that you're frustrated that other leaders and other organisations

are not valuing I in the way that, that, again, from your vision

today, uh, you clearly see a lot of opportunities for us in the world.

for us in the world.

Um.

first off, again, thanks for all the questions today.

This has been such an amazing chat, and I think we need more of these

convers, I think we need you, Jesse.

Uh, that's the missing piece, more of these conversations.

I may take you up on that.

Please

I continue, please do.

Um.

I, you know, one thi this is gonna sound, I gonna go back to my first

story, uh, and our conversation, the, I think we have everything, you know,

like there's nothing missing for us.

I

It's just,

not about taking that

there's, um, sometimes I'll talk about technology for a second here.

sometimes feel that we need to get all the puzzle pieces before we make

a move, and we sh we don't need that.

You know, failing is really helpful.

Um, as a, we, I had my own Ag Tech startup and I often ask other

founders, uh, if they had the same strength as mine, which is.

Pure ignorance, um, because nobody, if you knew all the things you needed to do

as a founder, you wouldn't even start it.

So I think we need to go into these initiatives a bit.

Again, we just need to trust ourselves that we're gonna be fine at the end of it.

Because again, we have all the pieces on our side.

We have the momentum, we have the support, we have the, uh,

we have gov. Again, having.

A system again, does it?

I think, you know, there's such a reputational, um, uh, positive reputation

when it comes to our own legal system.

that's an amazing asset to have.

I mean, like there are many jurisdictions that don't have that, and that's why

companies avoid those jurisdictions.

Like Canada has everything we need to get started, and I think sometimes we

just need to be a bit more bold in, in the way we take those risks because.

Again, I know it's hard for f some folks to take some risks, but I think

we have everything in our corner to make those, to make those bold bets.

Um, and sometimes we need is a little bit of ignorance, uh, going into these things.

Um, and maybe to, to quote, uh, the famous country singer.

I forgot her name, but, you know, let Jesus take the wheel a bit.

Um, so

Right on.

Well, and to your point, I always, in Toronto, I used to always hear the phrase,

fail early, fail often, and it was not something I found easy to do in the city.

But as a farmer, boy do I get to fail early, fail often all the time

and learn from that.

Right?

So it's, it's phenomenal how to, I think the through line of our conversation,

there's remarkable parallels between the technology sector

and the agricultural sector.

And if we can only get them recognising that and dancing together, Canada's

got quite quite the potential.

got quite

the

I totally

agree.

So the last, uh, question segment of the show is the shout outs.

this is where we say to our guests, is there any leaders that you look up to?

And this is meant to

be an academy Award acceptance speech.

This is kind of gut instinct, the names that come to mind right away.

But Mohamed, who do you look up to that we should also be paying attention to?

we should.

Also we pay attention to,

Um, I.

I mean, I, I have to.

Okay.

I, I really, really don't mean this just because, um, she, like, you know, the

CEO of fccs, uh, you know, I, I'm really, really trying to avoid this, like, suck

up, but like, uh, or kiss ass nature here.

But it's, I, I think, you know, the steps that Justine has taken this.

just seeing the way we transform as a Crown Corporation over the past two

to three years has been remarkable.

I think, you know, uh, in making the bold bets, being the,

the, the catalyst for change.

I think.

that our public institutions have the ability to

take those risks in order for the private sector to follow, um, I

think is incredible because we're putting agriculture far more on

the agenda than it ever has been.

And I think that's something to worth, worth celebrating.

So, um, on one hand if I can just have, uh, Justine, but if you want

a more, like, again, like a, a, a different leader, I look up to, oh boy.

Um.

know, you got me there, a leader I look up to, again, I

Always gonna,

of course, you know, of course there's my family and

I was gonna say, you're allowed to say your dad.

You wouldn't be the first

Oh,

say, I mean, you know, honestly, I I, I'd love to, to mention my, my

parents, uh, for sure just 'cause uh, they're, they inspire me constantly

with the resilience, and I hate using that word as levity because we've

been resilient way too many times.

But their ability, their ability to.

You know, again, always see the positive in the world is what

keeps me positive, honestly.

Um, because even though they've been through so many tragedies in their

lifetime, um, you know, just seeing their, their ability to look at tomorrow as a

be new and better day, um, you know, it is just, it's just foundational for me.

So, um, but yeah, so I would say my parents, both of them.

Right on.

Great selections

thanks again, Mohamed.

This has been a tour to force and this is always the point at the, uh, the

end of the episode where I say, we gotta have you back, uh, only because

we've only scratched the surface.

And because I am conspiring to put together a panel on AI and

agriculture as a future episode,

there's so much to get into,

in, in terms of the possibilities and the opportunities.

So thank you so much.

So

Thank you so much for having

and I can't wait for the next nerd gem,

uh, to come around the corner.

It'll be fun to participate.

Right on.

Right

And of course the thing about a good nerd jam

is it's inherently inclusive.

It's not meant to alienate, it's not make meant to make you feel dumb.

Quite the opposite.

We want you to feel smart.

We want you to lean in and go open claw.

What was Jesse talking about when he mentioned open claw

and what do they mean by.

Agents, what are these agents that everyone's talking about?

I don't know how familiar you are with this lingo.

Part of what we're trying to achieve here with the podcast is

kind of prime your brain so that you start hearing these words here.

Then you start seeing these words elsewhere and they

start to become legible.

They start to make sense again, this is partly how we're trying to insert AI

into the larger threads and conversations we're having here on the future Herd.

We are of course, focused on the future, on the future of the AgriFood sector, and

the thing about artificial intelligence is on the one hand, a lot of people are.

Deathly afraid of it.

And on the other people kind of just integrating it into their systems,

into their lives and they're not really thinking or talking or philosophising.

And so that's why I really loved talking with Mohammed.

'cause it allowed us to.

Not only get into the blue sky, big picture stuff that I love so much,

but he brought us into the details, into the practical, into the applied

aspects of agriculture and AgriFood.

That I think really speaks to innovation on the front lines.

And, and if anything, that may be one of the themes that we come back

to, which is how do we get these tools in the hands of farmers?

How do we ensure that it helps increase their yields, their

productivity keeps their animals?

Safer, healthier, more productive.

These may be abstract concepts to those of you who are just learning

about ai, but you know, quite frankly, those of us who are as excited at this

moment by the power of this technology.

You know, we're kind of becoming almost evangelical, a little, uh, popular

education when it comes to helping people.

Understand the risks, uh, but also the reward.

So, uh, thanks again.

This has been another fantastic episode.

Uh, you could check us out at the future, her.ca.

Of course, there's Commons Do the Future, her.ca, which is our

interactive aspect of our website, and we got some special episodes

coming up, including our first panel.

So, uh, we'll catch you again real soon.