In this episode, we feature two remarkable students from Governor State University - Tasneem and Abrea. Both young women proudly embrace their Palestinian heritage and are using their education to drive meaningful change. Tasneem is a first-generation social work student who has overcome significant odds to pursue higher education. Abrea is a two-time graduate of Governor State University, currently pursuing a Master's in Counseling. Throughout the conversation, Tasneem and Abrea share the profound impact of their cultural heritage on their educational journeys, discussing the challenges they have faced and their unwavering determination to create a more compassionate and equitable world.

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

palestine, education, students, identity, talk, palestinian liberation, home, educational, community, privilege, counseling, university, heritage, answer, receiving

SPEAKERS

Joi Patterson, Tasneem, Abrea, Amy Vujaklija

In no means on the days when it's a little more difficult, do I wish to be anything else? Do I wish to have any other identity? Because it's empowering, it's fueling, it's a motivation behind anything that I do is being able to represent who I am and where I come from.

Welcome to our podcast, teaching and leading with Dr Amy and Dr joy. I am Dr Amy vujaklija, Director of educator preparation, and I am

Dr Joi Patterson, Chief Diversity Officer. Our podcast addresses issues through the lens of diversity, equity and inclusion, along with solutions for us to grow as educators. So

join us on our journey to become better teachers and leaders. So let's get into it.

Hello. Dr, Amy, hello.

Dr, Joi.

So I'm happy number one to be celebrating the heritage of Arabic Americans, and I'm really excited about our guest today.

We have two students from Governor state university here with us today. Abria is a Palestinian Muslim American student here at Governor State University pursuing a Master's in Counseling on the marriage couple and family track, she is very passionate and vocal about her Palestinian heritage, and integrates her cultural background with her academic, professional and clinical work with the backing of faculty allies and fellow Palestinian students at gov state, she established the inaugural chapter of Students for Justice in Palestine at gov state, where she now leads as president. With a background in psychology and counseling, she is outspoken in her commitment to centering her education around advocacy intersectionality and raising awareness for Palestinian Liberation. Tasneem is a first generation social work student who proudly embraces her Palestinian identity within her educational journey, recognized for her exceptional academic achievements. She is a 2024 inductee of the Phi Alpha honor society for social work Omicron VEDA chapter at Governor state, a passionate advocate for social justice. Tasneem dedicates herself tirelessly to amplifying the voices of marginalized communities. Her commitment to advocacy stems from her own experiences as a Palestinian immigrant, driving her to make a meaningful difference in the lives of those in need, while also setting an example for younger generations to follow. Welcome to our podcast.

Welcome,

thank you.

Hi,

hi, so exciting to have you here. Tasneem, aka Taz, as her friends call her and Abria call you. Bria, so wonderful before we get into it, I just want to say it has been a privilege and an honor to know both of you, young ladies, you have stood out in more ways than you can imagine, and I am just happy to say that I've been a part of your life, and so thank you for being great students, but being a partner to the university. So let's really get into it and get to know you better. I know that Dr Amy, she just gave your wonderful bio, talked about your major, but let's talk about your educational journey, just a little bit more. And let's talk about why you chose the majors that you have chosen. We could start with you first. Bria, okay,

so a little bit about my educational journey. Actually, in December, I will be a two time grad from Governor state. So really excited, looking forward to that entering in my last year of my master's program. Thanks to Dr Amy for the introduction. I am a counseling master student, but when I graduated from GSU in 2021 I graduated with psychology and criminal justice, but honestly, all my life has been school. That's all I've ever known. Really, the reason and kind of the message behind my educational journey is knowledge and empowerment. And what better way to be empowered through knowledge is continuing your education within a master's program, right? But particularly counseling, because mental health is integral in all communities, but you know, particularly my cultural background as a Palestinian, as an Arab American, mental health. Is not talked about, right? And that goes for a lot of, you know, minority communities. So what better way than to represent my community through mental health and making the conversation around that, you know, a lot easier, a lot smoother, and particularly, you know, marriage, couple and family, is because we're all connected, you know, systemically. So that is kind of the reason why I was geared towards counseling, particularly marriage, couple and family, is because I know living in America, it's very individualized, but collectively is how we could achieve healing. So what better way to work through that, then through a collective and systemic lens?

Yeah, we're teaching you well. So I did when you talk about, you know, just understanding the commute different communities, especially people of color, African American population, the Latin population, and then you have Arab American populations that have shied away from counseling, right? And we know how important mental health is, and then to see someone like you that actually gets people to you open a whole new door for them. So thank you for doing that. How about you? Taz,

all right, I don't have a cute story of why I chose Social Work. Honestly, I never thought I was gonna actually go to college. It was never in the picture. None of my siblings went to school, or my parents didn't make it past Middle School, either, so it was never part of the picture. But that doesn't mean I wasn't big on education. I always took it very seriously. So then, when I got to high school and it was sent to Tigard, what I wanted to do with the rest of my life? I didn't know what to do. I originally wanted to become a high school teacher, deep down inside, I wanted to become a high school teacher, but there was never subject that I was, like, really passionate about, but I was a very active student on campus. I did a lot of advocacy work with gun violence, and I worked a lot with the school social worker, even though I never had, like, one on one interactions with social workers growing up. But I loved the work she did. I loved how involved she was with the community, with the parents, with the students, teachers. It was like, everything that you want to do all in one included the politics, community, work, education in one setting. So then when it came, you know, time to decide, you know, what's next, I was like, okay, social work. And then, yeah, that's when I discovered GSU, and they were one of the few schools around the area that have the program. But yeah, and you know, now that I'm into it, I'm really, really glad I chose that, because I've come to realization that there is not really enough representation for Arab Americans in this field, and I think it's time to to really break that and and show some representation. So yeah, that I chose it,

that's fantastic. Thank you. You both will have such major contributions to our society to really impact students, students of various ethnicities and backgrounds, and really open that door. Now let's think a little bit about what has impacted and influenced your educational journey. How has culture influenced your educational journey? Have there been significant events in your background that have affected your educational experiences over yet? You want to start us off?

Yeah, I will actually. And for this particular question, I want to, I want to begin my answer kind of with a quote. It goes, you want to be an intellectual, you must resist. Otherwise, you and your education are useless. And, you know, I quote a revolutionary martyr from Palestine, and how, really, it sums up my answer, because, you know, you cannot go throughout education, particularly in a mental health field, as a mental health professional, or really in any profession, without recognizing privilege right. And education is a privilege in America, and it should be a right as well. Education is a privilege. Education is power. Knowledge is power, and if you don't use it to not only better yourself, but to better your community, you and your education have have no use. So this has influenced, kind of my education, and really myself, is because it is on me, as a Palestinian, you know, to educate those around me and to raise awareness about Palestine. And what better environment to do that in the classroom, right? Where education is duty and education is resistance, like I was saying, you know, knowledge is power, especially in higher education, you can no longer hide behind the facade of ignorance. You know, that's not what education should stand for, and that's definitely not what the university stands for as well. So culture influenced my educational journey by being a walking advocate, by being like a walking sign of, you know, raising awareness about Palestine. And I want to make sure I'm not only doing my program and my. Potential field as a professional justice but also my culture and where I come from as well.

Yeah, you had asked if there was any significant event that impacted our education. And for me, I immigrated here when I was I came here when I was eight years old, and that has been a huge impact on me. Like, like Abria said, education is a privilege, and I feel like from the background that I come from, I feel like I was given a second chance at life, and I need to take advantage of this opportunity living here and actually getting an education, because the truth is that a lot of people that I grew up around did not receive an education. They barely made it past high school, and it's pretty common in our culture, especially back home, where, you know, after high school, girls tend to, I don't want to say, get married off, but they just choose that lifestyle that's that's the that's the norm back home. So for me to get to be given a second chance at life here and and pursue an education and set an example for my younger sister for my little cousins, that's, that's a privilege and and again, like Abria said, you know, education is resistance, although I kept, I keep saying that those around me were not educated, but they were the ones educating me on my on my identity. Yeah, they were the ones who kept it going. So now it is my duty, and it is my right to continue that yes,

yes, yes. And I think as first generation students, we do feel that obligation. You do feel that obligation because you stood on the shoulders of someone else, someone made it possible for you to be here. And so it's such an honor that you all are college students and receiving a second degree, so receiving your graduate degree, and then we'll see you back again for your doctorate degree. So as university students, I want to talk about the last six months and how that may have been different for you, and if you felt that it's been different for you the last six months, if so, talk about what made it different. Talk about any challenges and any opportunities that you've had available over the last six months. And you can be as real as you want.

Okay, I'll answer this first. Yeah, the last six months have been, how do I phrase this? Instrumental, monumental, devastating, heartbreaking, a roller coaster of emotions, but it has shown me, like all things, in a Palestinians life of community, right? And it has been difficult, but it has been difficult, kind of navigating being a student at the University where it's like, there's you run into two types of people you you run into the type of person that is silent and pretends you run to the person that is kind of tone deaf, and you run into a person where it's like, what can I do? What do you need? You know, and I've received both. Unfortunately, I've received more of the former than the latter. But thankfully, those that fall into the ladder, those that fall into okay, like, how can I help? Is there anything that I could do to make it easier? Do you need support or any other helpful, you know, questions or actions really kind of reminded me that, you know, not only one, I picked a good university to go to, but two, how I could use people, those individuals, to also do the same thing that I'm doing, is raising awareness, is having conversations, is making sure that the people around us are doing okay, which goes back to my initial answer of of community. So it's been a it's been a whirlwind of emotions and being able to balance okay, you know, academic responsibilities, professional responsibilities, but also kind of navigating through guilt and okay, I'm not on my phone, you know, checking the news and Checking updated statistics, because I have to work on a paper. You know, it's like you're stuck kind of between a rock and a hard place, because it's like, this is my identity, this is who I am, but the same time you have other responsibilities too. So long answer, short, it's been tough.

What about you?

Taz Abria mentioned the guilt, and I think that's that's the biggest thing I've been struggling with the with the past six months, I've had a really hard time, especially in school. I've had a hard time balancing school and and trying to emotionally process all of this, especially when you have family back home and you have siblings, nieces and nephews. I. When you have a home that's there, you can't help but feel guilty and shameful that I get to be here right now, safe and okay. I get to drive to school three three times a week. I have food on the table while my people back home are living in tents are in the streets. They lost their access to education. Women have lost their access to basic rights. And one thing I'm very grateful for is a lot of my professors in the Social Work program here who were willing to hear me out and let me process all these emotions, because I started struggling in the classroom start affecting all aspects of my life. But I want to shout out Dr coffee, who, you know, came up to me and said, Hey, like, How is everything going back you know, how's everything going back home? And I was telling her, and she immediately was like, let's do something. Like, let's, let's do something, let's, let's organize something. And I really appreciated that, because, honestly, I wasn't receiving a lot of positive things from classmates or, you know, those around me. I thought, I thought we all thought the same, you know. I thought we all had the same opinion about this, you know, because humanity comes first. Put politics on the side humanity. I was proven wrong. But yeah, I do owe a big thanks to a lot of my professors who were willing to have those uncomfortable conversations and give me a platform, and I think it was because of Dr Coffey, I finally found my place at GSU, and

hopefully you feel that being a student is part of your duty, too, to your family and your community. We talked a little bit about you plan to go home soon for about a month, two months, it frightens me that you're going to Palestine. But how do you feel? And you feel very passionate about why you need to go home. Yeah, talk to us about why you feel you need to go home. I'm not

gonna lie, at first, I didn't want to go. I was I was really nervous. I was like, no, like, I want to stay here. Like, I don't want anything bad to happen to me. But then my mom was like, if something happens to you, then it's happening to all of us. Like, this is like, your privilege. Take that out of the door right now. You got family back home, and I feel like it is my duty back to go back home and and visit and live that. And when you know it's your home, you got no fear in going back home. So I'm really excited, little bit nervous, and I might get stuck, but it's okay. Well, we'll get through. I've had family travel back and forth, so that's why I'm really not nervous anymore. And you know, if anything does happen, everything happens for a reason, but I do want to visit because I fear that this might be the last visit I get for a very long time, and I want to be able to sleep in my room again and walk around the village and go to the local store or the main city. I want to be able to do that because, you know, I live in America, and this is, I'd say this, but this is not my home, right? I'm a visitor here. My home is in Palestine.

We will likely have to have you back, because I think you'll have an additional answer to this next question I have for you, what does it mean to be a young Palestinian woman in the US, and how do you reconcile, reconcile with the two worlds. Maybe Tasneem, you can start us off with that because of this transition that you're gonna have.

I think of resilience, because as a young Palestinian woman in the US, you face stereotypes and barriers that you know you have to constantly come, that you constantly have to battle, however, the resilience persists, you know, despite all all that's been going on, and another thing is heritage. So although, you know, I'm living in America and I'm experiencing all this racism, all these hate crimes, questioning my identity, I'm literally starting to question my identity because I'm like, I'm not an American, but I am a citizen, though, I got it from my dad, right? But when I go back home, I'm called an American. So, you know, I'm constantly have to go through all these barriers. But then another thing of it is my heritage. I have so much pride in my identity, I have so much love for my culture, that that's the one thing that that I guess keeps me going. And it's again, it's like two worlds colliding. I'm constantly going back and forth, back and forth. One side of me feels super guilty that it is my tax dollars that are contributing to this, and another sides of me feels like this power. Like, like, we like the veil. No, the what is it? The veil has been lifted. Yeah, like it's coming out. People are, are waking up. The resistance is, it's growing. So I hope that answered your question.

Well, of course, could you add to that? Yeah,

I would love to, and I would just want to echo Tasneem with her answer. It was beautifully worded, beautifully said, and probably going to sound like a broken record, but it's an honor and a privilege to be a Palestinian woman in the US, because it is proof, right? It's proof that my identity exists, right? It's proof that I exist. And existence is resistance. You know, we hear that all the time. Existence is, you know, proof that what people are trying to say is ultimately a lie. Because here you have me and Tasneem, right? So it's like, it's proof in the face of ignorance and in the in the and in the face of hate, that our identities exist, right? And it's really, it's sometimes, on some days, it is a struggle, but in no means, on the days when it's a little more difficult. Do I wish to be anything else? Do I wish to have any other identity? Because it's, it's empowering, it's fueling, it's a motivation behind anything that I do is being able to represent who I am and where I come from. But yeah, I echo everything that Tasneem said, and I just wanted to add a little more to that. So,

so let's think about that representation and the advocacy work that you're doing in the bio. We were talking about your club that you started. What was your motivation for starting the club for Students for Justice in Palestine? Tell us about your goals.

Yeah, I'm so honored to be able to talk about SJP. And for those that are listening, that are students, please join our SJP. We would love to have anyone you know. Membership is open to everyone, whether they're new, you know, to learning about the history of the occupation in Palestine and what's currently ongoing, or if they're not new and they understand Palestinian Liberation and advocacy and intersectionality, and you don't need to be Palestinian to stand for Palestine. You just need to be human so. But the motivation for starting our SJP is, why not? You know, we have multiple active sjps around local universities that are doing amazing work, that are bringing not only awareness to what's going on in Palestine, but having these conversations and doing these demonstrations that is so empowering and so motivating. And what better time than now? Right? What better time than when people are hiding behind hate and ignorance to start a club that is the opposite of that. The SJP goal, really, aside from education and awareness, is having conversations where people shouldn't be afraid to say the word Palestine, because how else are you going to make others aware and educated, and for them to, you know, tell their family and to tell their friends, it's making sure these spaces are to be had. And what better way than for a student for Justice in Palestine club?

Right? And I really like that because, and today we're having a conversation about it, right? Yeah, so this is a really good thing. And I would say, from a university perspective, this is our first, what we were looking at, oh, this is a political club. This is our first political club, and it's been anything, but it's been more about peace, and it's so it gave us the opportunity as a university to lean in, and you both were sharing your stories about your identity, and it's okay for us to be this and that we don't have to choose you can be this and you can be that, and you can be those things very well, because we are all complicated people. So just embrace that. Desmond Tutu writes, and you alluded to this, I hope that you will be amongst those young people who change the world. We work to make the world a gentler, more compassionate and more caring world, and we see this on television, with university students, with young people. Would you describe yourself as such? And if so, what do you want to achieve, and how do you want others to see you?

That's a beautiful question with a beautiful quote that kind of that attaches to it. I see myself as that honestly, and I see myself contributing to that, because it's not just me, right? You cannot think and you cannot think in an individual perspective, because that negates everything that I said before. About community and about a collective right, about where America is an individual, individualistic world. A lot of times, other worlds are collectivistic culture. It's not just, oh, I have to do this for myself to have a better world for myself. It's, you know, we need to stand together to make this world a better place for all of us, and that's really, ultimately what I want to achieve is, is being an advocate and raising awareness for Palestinian Liberation, right? And that's how I want others to see me, ultimately, is the work that I'm doing is working towards a world where we see Palestinian Liberation. I believe that will happen within our lifetime and and I hope that that comes true, and within that world, there has to be more compassion and more care for a community, you know, not just for ourselves.

Taz, are you one of those people that Desmond Tutu talks about,

I think so. I think as a Palestinian, I bring a unique perspective shaped by the experiences and challenges of my people, and I think my upbringing with the struggles of Palestine has instilled in me a deep sense of empathy and resilience and determination to create not only a better future for myself, but also for my community.

I want to say this conversation is amazing. It's really touched me in so many ways. Dr Joi could probably talk about a similar experience as I had growing up and having a history lesson, and we were called a melting pot. United States is called a melting pot. I mean, that's anything but true. We like you so eloquently said, we are so many different people. There's the intersectionality within all of us, all of the cultures, we don't melt together. We are beautiful. I don't know what would you call it? Salad, tossed salad. We have all these different flavors, and that is so much more beautiful than to say we've melted together. That's a rather ugly image. What else before we leave today and pause the conversation, because I think this conversation needs to continue. What else do you want our listeners to know?

I just wanted before I answer that question, I just wanted to add to your comment about a melting pot. I feel like a melting pot erases identity, right? Assimilation, exactly, and you shouldn't have to do that. You know, you should be very proud of who you are and where you come from and what you stand for. You know, in no way should you have to water that down or to censor that and unfortunately, when we talk about the Palestinian identity that often comes up, that erasure, that center, that censorship, that watering down even in language, which is why there's a quote that once you meet a Palestinian, they'll never let you forget that they're Palestinian. And as President of SJP, I know all my comrades out there know that that's true, especially coming from me. And I know Tasneem is the same way, but there's no reason why you should have to water down or censor yourself or kind of erase your identity when that's who you are.

I do want to encourage test name to do some kind of journaling or photo journal activity while you're traveling. I would be fascinating to see what you come away with and how you kind of wrestle with your two. Let's not say two. We have multiple identities, you know, women and ethnicity, our culture. And I would love to hear that story when you come back.

Yeah, it's funny. You mentioned that because I bought a camera, great, a digital camera, and the goal is to vlog every single day, even if I sit at home hiding.

So we will be part of that. We will be looking out for your blog because we just finished a wonderful educational symposium. Our goal is to educate people, right? And through education, it's so powerful, right? We see things different. It just opens your eyes. The number of people that were enlightened by the educational symposium was amazing, so But I look forward to every day and working with your club, SJP. Be and the things that we can do together as people, right? So I look forward to and I thank you. You guys are incredible, incredible Palestinian women, just incredible students, and we're happy to have you. Thank you.

Thank you for listening to teaching and leading with Dr Amy and Dr joy. Visit our website at G, O, v, s, t.edu/teaching, and leading podcast to see the show notes from this episode,

we appreciate Governor State University's work behind the scenes to make publishing possible. Stay tuned for more episodes with Dr Amy and Dr Joi.