Welcome to this month’s Happiness Challenge, where Klaudia is exploring how to kickstart your feel-good chemicals. 

Tanith Carey, author of “Feeling Blah?” walks Klaudia through why we feel joyless at times and how to recapture life's highs.

Listen to discover some key strategies to help you bring colour and joy back into your life.

Klaudia Mitura: Hello happiness seekers. Welcome to this month's Happiness Challenge, where I'll be exploring how to kickstart your feel-good chemicals. Exploring with me this topic is a British journalist and author, Tanith Carey, who in her newest book, Feeling Blah, brings the latest in psychology and research of how we feel excitement and joy.

Tanith is going to dive deeper into why we feel joyless at times and how to recapture life's highs. So let's try out some strategies together to help you bring colour back into your life. Welcome, Tanith.

Tanith Carey: Hi. How are you?

Klaudia Mitura: I'm very good and I'm so excited because we are speaking about joy and excitement. So I think those are the right emotions really for this podcast.

Tanith Carey: Absolutely. Yeah.

Klaudia Mitura: So in your book, you are speaking about a phenomenon, let's say, called anhedonia. So what is it and how do we know if we are experiencing it?

Tanith Carey: Right. So anhedonia is well known to clinicians, but, I feel it's the missing word in mental health because we talk about joy and happiness at one end, and we talk about depression and despair at the other.

But to be honest, a lot of us are mainly in that grey space in between. And as you know, in psychology, they say you have to name it to tame it. If you don't know what it's called, it's hard to fix it. So anhedonia is something that I wanted to bring out into the light a little bit more to give more nuance to our mental health discussion.

Because at the moment people just don't really talk about, as I say, they're kind of the blah feelings, not feeling, kind of getting on with your life, functioning, getting up, going to work, going through the motions, but not actually feeling like they're flourishing or they're reaching their potential.

Or not, just really having the joy kind of coursing through them, feeling a bit numb, a bit like they're sleepwalking, a bit zombie-like; all those kinds of things. So that's what I wanted to talk about.

Klaudia Mitura: So I think what you're saying, yes, so important isn't it, that we kind of in the middle of that spectrum and yes, there are moments when we might be a little bit in the grind of daily life, and it's not always that energized, motivating, happy, happy times and moments for us.

So what factors can actually dial down our ability to feel that excitement and joy?

Tanith Carey: Absolutely. That's a really good question. So anhedonia, is a symptom of major depression, and it comes onto those, kind of that list of the DSM five, but I think what we're now realizing is that there's a great deal of research that shows it can be standalone, so you don't have to be depressed to have anhedonia.

But basically what anhedonia means is that your brain's reward system, the meta limbic, reward pathway is not working as well as it should. The dopamine and the feelgood chemicals are not kind of really working to optimum levels. And what the book does is it looks at the various things that can stand in the way of this reward pathway working really well.

So they could be different for everybody. There could be a cocktail of different reasons for everybody. You know, they could be the fact that you know, you are burnt out. Your cortisol is basically overrunning your feel-good chemicals because cortisol gets the upper hand. It could be your hormonal changes both as a man and a woman.

In women that could be over the course of the month because oestrogen has a very big knock-on effect on feelgood chemicals like dopamine. It could be something historical, it could be like that you had a chaotic childhood in which you became wary of joy because you thought, because in childhood when you felt happy, maybe the chaos around you meant that that happiness was taken away.

So you become cynical and distrustful of joy. It could be diet. Because basically, foods can have an inflammatory effect and that inflammation can affect the running of the brain's reward pathway. It also could be related to illness because when the body's immune system responds to illness like maybe long covid or other immune issues, it can also mean that this can also cause inflammation in the rewards pathway. So there are all sorts of different reasons.

Klaudia Mitura: Yeah. Brilliant. And I think I could definitely personally relate to that.

I had the long-term covid and I can definitely now look back to kind of really appreciate that I was maybe in that state of not being a hundred percent. But not really pinpoint what's wrong. Because as you said, I was functioning, but I wasn't a hundred percent, I wasn't kind of feeling myself.

So that's really interesting that you're saying that the illness can influence that.

Tanith Carey: And you know, the terrible thing about that also is because anhedonia really hits your motivation. So then you lose most, like say for example, it can be a side effect of diabetes, and so you can lose the motivation to do something in your lifestyle to change that.

Anhedonia can also be a side effect of obesity because that's quite, that's an inflammatory illness. And as you say, long covid. And it may explain, who knows? I think the research, time will tell it may explain why a lot of people just didn't return to work with long covid just because they've lost their motivation.

They've lost their drive, they've lost their joy in life, you know, so it's just really, I think it's really under-discussed, anhedonia. It really is. And, and it is one of the now-recognized symptoms of long covid. But how come we're not talking about it?

Klaudia Mitura: Yeah, that's true actually. When I came across your publication, I was like, oh, that's interesting you know, I haven't discovered this before. I haven't really seen this before. So yeah, really, really as you are saying maybe well old concepts, but as a new emerging, how we are applying it into the current life. But as you said, it's very much linked with our brain's dopamine reward system.

So all of the specific factors that you mentioned impact that to some extent. So can you just walk us quickly through how our brain's dopamine reward system actually works so that we are experiencing that joy and happiness?

Tanith Carey: Yeah, so I worked with a lot of neuroscientists on this book, and one of the main neuroscientists I work with is a guy called Professor Kent Berridge, who's taken forward the Olds and Milner rewards experiments on rats and he's brought it into the present day and he has analysed how joy circulates in the brain.

And I mean, one of the things I say in the book is, we have two things going on. We have this expectation that modern life should make us happy. But at the same time, modern life is making us unhappy because our dopamine circuits is also being overrun. I mean, we live in a convenient society where we can get food, films, music, any porn scene, anything we want. Probably if we really wanted it to our doorstep within a couple of hours, you know, and dopamine is not the chemical of reward, it's actually the chemical of seeking. So what's happening in our modern world is that our dopamine system is basically overrun. We are not seeking enough. And also basically in the course of this, the dopamine receptors in our brain then become downregulated so that, the dopamine is not circulating as well.

I mean, obviously, I talk about some much more detail in the book, and also, we have to realize that joy is actually not just one thing, it's actually three things according to Professor Berridge. And that is the anticipation of something that's good, that's going to happen.

So that's when the dopamine builds. It's the appreciation. That's when we are in the moment and the dopamine circulating. And also, we get opioids, which are also part of this reward. And then we get the remembering so that if we have something that we enjoyed, we remember, so we do it again. So it's basically, I think the point I make in the book is that we're always talking about, oh, we want things to make us happy and everything should make us happy.

But if you ask the average person, how is happiness made in the brain, very few people can tell you. So that's why I devote this entire chapter to neuroscience and explaining in a really clear way what happens. Like, say you order something to your door. You know how the anticipation, your visualization, the memory of something you enjoyed, how this works to create a joyful experience.

Because once we understand what joy is, then we can start to get our brains kind of back on side because we basically, we still have the same brains as we had a hundred thousand years ago. But the environment has changed a great deal so that basically they've been hijacked and they're kind of, our dopamine reward system is kind of metaphorically because obviously, the brain is a very complicated thing, is metaphorically kind of short-circuiting.

So, yeah.

Klaudia Mitura: Oh my goodness. So interesting, isn't it? Like, on the one hand, everything really should make us happy, as you're saying. That's our expectation. On another hand, oh my goodness, which is too much. Too much all at once.

Tanith Carey: So basically, when everything is supposed to feel good, then nothing feels good.

This is the kind of society we have created where like all our needs are met right away. But yeah, you know the dopamine is not really helping on dopamine because there's just too much dopamine. Do you know what I mean? And then once dopamine goes up and it has to come down again.

So we're, in a very dopamine dysregulated society.

Klaudia Mitura: Yes. And I really love that categorization, as you mentioned about the joy at different three levels. My husband always loves that I make the best out of holidays because I love that anticipation of planning for my going on holiday. Then I love it when I'm there, but then afterwards for another year, I'm creating like scrapbooking from that holiday, so he always laughs that this is like one holiday, the best investment because I'm happy for like two years, you know, before, during, and after. So I really can relate to that.

Tanith Carey: That's great. So you're really maximizing that experience and like moving into those three phases of the joy 'cause that's true.

Because I think there's some research that says that anticipating a holiday can be even better than actually being on one. Which is so interesting, isn't it?

Klaudia Mitura: Yes. Because I guess we are imagining those extra things of I'll be doing this, I'll be doing that, and I can, yeah, I can really see how our imagination can take us on that nice joy wave.

So, okay, let's say yes, I'm struggling with this. I really want to experience more joy and happiness. How could I kickstart my feel-good chemicals? How can I get more balance?

Tanith Carey: Yeah. So the last third of the book is really a toolbox because it's going to be different for everybody depending on what the cause of their anhedonia is.

I mean, obviously, the first step is awareness. The fact that we know that there's a state of blah, that it is not just the status quo, that this is a thing. And therefore when you know it's a thing, then you can feel more in control of it and start to address it. So that's the main thing. Do you know what I mean?

But I mean, there are all sorts of different things. So basically, I went to some of the world's top happiness scientists to kind of just bring to readers just really actionable evidence-based techniques that they could use. I mean, there are all sorts of things. There are things like behavioural activation.

The thing about anhedonia, it's really insidious because you lose your motivation and then you stop doing the things you used to enjoy. So behavioural activation is the theory that you do five minutes of what the things you used to enjoy every day until actually, the chemicals start flowing and it's really difficult at first, but you have to believe in the science 'cause it's like an old-fashioned water pump. You keep pumping, you keep pumping, you keep pumping, and the water's not flowing, and then gradually it comes back. You know what I mean? Also, you can look at your diet. I strongly recommend that people think about their diet as not just about their body, but really to feed their minds.

I mean, I've spoken to women's menopause experts. I mean, obviously, this doesn’t apply to men who just say that they can see a very tangible improvement in people's mood when they have a less inflammatory diet. Because that means that the brain's reward system can work more smoothly.

There are all sorts of things. I think obviously we know, and I think people tend to groan about, oh, exercise, oh, gratitude, but, you know, the thing is when you look at the science, it is really impressive. And done consistently exercise and gratitude have better effects than antidepressants in the long term.

It's basically, it's about awareness, isn't it? And I mean, I think also allowing yourself to sink into the moments. I mean, something I like to say is that you know, we all have bad days, but within those bad days, we will have some moments of joy if we look out for them. So it's also about noticing.

And let that sink into them and taking note and just allowing us to enjoy those things rather than thinking, oh, you know, I've got to rush off and do this, or rush off and do that. I mean, also phones, I mean that also sounds a little bit like we've heard it all before, but the point is that cortisol, the stress hormone stays in our body once spiked for an hour.

So basically, we are always getting inputs and notifications and emails, you know, messages from our boss, messages from our work colleagues and stuff like that, it just means that you know, our cortisol levels never get a chance to reset. And cortisol really does dampen down the effects of serotonin and dopamine.

So we're just not giving ourselves a chance. I mean, I just really do think that we have to treat phone-free time as a treat and a reward. I also believe that we just give ourselves too much to do. So we've all got loads on our to-do list. I think it's time, as I say in the book, that we do some 'no' list.

So we look at all the tasks we give ourselves, do we really need to be doing them all? Is this a legacy of something else? If we have a partner, can we delegate? Can we share? Can we reorganize? Because I think often, I think women often do all the emotional sponges, and they take on the emotional load.

And I think we're moving to a phase of history where, you know, we can share these duties more so there's loads of them.

Klaudia Mitura: Yeah. Fantastic. So lots of great practical aspects from yes, breaking up with your phone. I think always a good idea. Having a little bit of digital detox to think about your diet, think about your exercise, gratitude, and those happiness-boosting habits, which I agree, I think we hear about them. Say, oh yes, yes, I know I should be doing this. It's very much, yes. Stick to it. And I love the fact that you're saying about that reactivation of joy almost of repeated for five minutes every day till that joy gets flowing. Even though if we maybe lost it in the process or lost it, because something has changed in our life.

So as part of this podcast, really, I'd like to try certain practical strategies and then I share with my listeners how did it go and what have I discovered? So if you could prescribe me something quick that I could try for three weeks, what would that be?

Tanith Carey: Let me think. Now I've met you, Klaudia. I'm going to have to think about what's tailored for you. That's so tricky, isn't it really? Okay. I want you to sing in the shower every morning.

Klaudia Mitura: Sing in the shower. Oh my God. My husband will be terrified. I'm such a bad singer, so why? Why should I do that?

Tanith Carey: Right. And actually, I want you to turn the temperature down really low as well.

Klaudia Mitura: Oh, do you want me to have a cold shower? No way. Okay. So why, why I should be singing or rather screaming in that case, whilst having a cold shower?

Tanith Carey: Right. So this is going to work on many levels. So first of all, if you are in that cold shower for long enough, it's going to reactivate, it's going to give you a burst of dopamine.

So that's well known. If you sing and you sing a song that you like, it's well known that when we sing songs we like and we get to the bit that we particularly look forward to, like the chorus, our dopamine starts to rise. And, we know that music has an amazing effect on the dopamine system.

It's a very ancient way of getting that circulating. And I think that would be a great way of stating your intention for the day.

Klaudia Mitura: Okay, brilliant. I'll try that and I will share on the next episode. How did it go? That cold shower? That'll be challenging for me. Definitely, but I'll give it a go.

Brilliant. Thank you so much. Final question, what makes you happy?

Tanith Carey: What makes me happy? Many, many things because obviously, this is also my journey of anhedonia, you know? My dog makes me really happy, seeing my dog, I mean, nature and my dog. It's nice to stack them, isn't it? So you take your dog to Hampstead Heath and then she's running around and she's in the moment, she's smiling. I like seeing the incredible nature. I'm breathing in the great things from the trees. I am appreciating the awe of the things I'm seeing. I'm seeing my life in perspective. So yeah, my dog. My dog is my happiness coach.

Klaudia Mitura: Brilliant. I love it. I love it. A happiness coach.

Yes. Amazing. Brilliant. Thank you so much for spending this afternoon with me. I've learned really lots of interesting things around joy and that excitement and getting out that blah feeling that we all experience at different times. So thank you so much again.