Episode Summary: this episode is a segment from a conversation with Stewart Watkins and Max Van Someren on sustainability and a rare earth minerals mining project in Western Australia
Rare earth minerals play a crucial role in the energy transition, as they are used in various applications like electric vehicles and wind turbines. However, the mining of these minerals has had a poor environmental record.
To understand how an Australian mining project is improving this issue, we had a conversation with Stewart Watkins and Max Van Someren, where we discussed the broader context of the Nolans project in the energy transition.
About the Nolans project
A presentation by Net Zero Perth on the Nolans Project
For more information on the project and to order your copy of the Carbon Almanac, visit thecarbonalmanac.org
Want to join in the conversation?
Visit thecarbonalmanac.org/podcasts and send us a voice message on this episode or any other climate-related ideas and perspectives.
Don’t Take Our Word For It, Look It Up!
You can find out more on page 167, 172, 242, 252 and 253 of the Carbon Almanac and on the website you can tap the footnotes link and type in 100, 092, 124, 120 and 112
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Olabanji is from Lagos Nigeria, he’s a Creative Director and visual designer that helps brands gain clarity, deliver meaningful experiences and build tribes through Design & Strategy. He founded Jorney - a community designed to help people stay productive, accountable, and do their best work.
Leekei is a fashion business founder, a business coach, an international development expert and podcaster from Paris, France.
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The CarbonSessions Podcast is produced and edited by Leekei Tang, Steve Heatherington and Rob Slater.
Yeah, sure.
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:Um, I will, I'll jump in at that point.
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:Leaky, um, and that will be a nice
way to explain how I found out
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:what rare elsewhere and how they
fit into the energy transition.
5
:Um, the net there Network is a,
a group here in Perth, in Western
6
:Australia, which was founded by me and
a couple of others, about two years.
7
:Because we were reading about the
importance of climate change and
8
:the potential changes that were
going to be required in society and
9
:within the economy, but we weren't
really sure how as individuals
10
:we could get involved to do more.
11
:We knew that there were small scale
things that we could do, like saving
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:energy around our own homes, but we
didn't feel like that was enough.
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:We wanted to use our professional
skills to have more impact.
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:Um, and I didn't know who
to talk to about that.
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:So a small group of us got together and we
decided to form a group which would help
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:each other to identify opportunities for,
get involved, to get involved and do more.
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:Um, that led to us meeting regularly,
uh, hearing from inspiring speakers who
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:had made that transition themselves.
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:And ultimately for me, it led me to
move from the job which I was in,
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:which was designing ship, uh, which was
pretty interesting, but not directly
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:related to decarbonization, to working
with a large engineering company, kbr
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:r helping companies like Aira, who
will hear from in a minute, uh, with
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:their decarbonization strategies.
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:Um, And, um, the net network has
been fantastic for connecting
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:to all sorts of people.
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:Have helped me understand what
that, what, what the options are
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:for industry and society as a whole.
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:Pretty decarbonize.
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:So you came to the product without
milli anything about Ra Eber almost.
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:It was, there was definitely
a learning curve for me.
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:That's right.
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:Yeah.
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:So, um, I, I'm an engineer by
background and I bought experience
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:in decarbonization technologies.
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:Uh, but uh, I didn't understand
the rare Earth domain and, and I'd
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:heard about them I think like most
of us have in, in a passing sense.
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:But I wasn't really sure exactly what
role they played in the energy transition.
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:Uh, which is I think something that
few who've got a much longer background
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:than me in Rare Earth can probably
describe to you in much more detail.
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:Sure.
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:Max.
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:You know, and, and I think the, the,
the funny thing about this is most
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:people dunno what rare earths are.
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:They're, they're those things that sit
down at the bottom of the periodic table.
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:Just above uranium and
thorium, those fun ones.
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:Um, and, and nobody covers them in high
school chemistry, you know, and, and,
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:and the funny part about rare earths
is they're not actually that rare.
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:Um mm-hmm.
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:They're rare in as much as they
don't often come in a lot of
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:concentration in the earth, but
they're, they're kind of all around us.
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:They're all over the place.
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:Um, now rare earths are also not used
all that much, but where they are used,
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:they are adding a massive, massive value.
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:Um, the ones that, that, uh, you
know, Aira, the company that I work
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:for and joined about five years
ago, is really interested in, uh,
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:Emon, neodymium, and Permium, and
yeah, everybody stumbles over it.
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:So for that, we call it N D P R because
those ones are the ones that go into
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:ultra high strength permanent magnets.
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:We've all sort of played around with,
um, you know, those really strong
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:little magnets that stick like, uh,
like you can't believe, and then there
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:doesn't seem to be anything to them.
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:Well, those are rare earth magnets, and
it's the rare earths that go in there that
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:do all that funky physics stuff and make
a, a, a magnet that is so, so super strong
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:that, that you, you wouldn't believe them.
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:Wow.
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:Does that make sense?
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:So it does make sense.
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:Um, you say it's not that rare, but,
so why do we call it rare Earth then?
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:Oh, I'm gonna blame
some old chemistry guy.
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:You know?
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:Uh, they're also known as the amides,
if you wanna, if you wanna get all
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:chemical, but, um, yeah, they're,
they're called rare earths and,
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:and it's a lot easier to explain.
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:I guess they're rare around
the earth in as much as.
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:At the moment, it something like
about 85% of the rare earth produced
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:in this world are refined, mined, and
refined under the control of China.
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:Um, and, and that makes
it a very interesting
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:geopolitical situation as well.
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:Mm-hmm.
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:The, the other explanation that
I had heard about why they were
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:colloquially called rare earths
originally, it's because although
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:there's a lot of them in the aircraft,
they're challenging to extract.
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:And so for a long time it was, it was,
it was difficult to create a lot of prof,
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:rare earth metal, which made them rare.
85
:Mm-hmm.
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:I'll, I'll take that one Max.
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:Um, and you there, Stuart, you touched
upon, uh, the incredible properties
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:of Rare Earth, very, very strong
magnet Earlier, uh, you guys were
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:talking about how rare earth are
involved in, in all sorts of end use
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:uses within the energy transition.
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:Things like electric
vehicles, for example.
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:Maybe Stuart, you could just
explain how strong magnet.
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:Make things like electric
vehicles a better product.
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:Yeah, sure.
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:Um, you know, and, and, and the
reason why, uh, get digging into
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:that, you know, when, when you have
an electric motor, basically you
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:have two rotating, or one stationary
and one rotating magnetic field.
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:So you know that that's
how these things work.
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:We'll pick the engineering
nerd over here in this corner.
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:So when, when you, when you have a
motor and, and particularly an electric
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:vehicle or a, or a wind turbine or, or
something like that, really what, what
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:you're trying try, kind of looking for
is the lightest weight and the lowest en
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:energy consumption to get you from A to B.
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:It's like in your petrol car, you, you,
you wanna be able to drive around using
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:the least amount of petrol in electric
vehicle and I've got one on order.
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:Um, you know, you want to be able to drive
around plugging it in the least amount
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:and use the least amount of electrons.
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:So if you've got one of those
magnetic fields, um, being generated
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:from a permanent magnet, Rather
than from an electromagnet, then
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:you are using less energy to get
the wheels turning if you like.
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:Now, um, the, the research that we did
here when we were doing some marketing
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:work was that a rare earth permanent
magnet motor is about 15% more efficient
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:than an induction motor where you've
got two, two electromagnet coils.
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:Um, so in that respect, imagine
you've got a 15% more efficient,
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:fuel efficient vehicle.
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:So that's why they're super important.
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:And then when you think about, say, a
wind turbine, you know, we've got only a
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:certain amount of wind blowing past it.
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:So if you've got 15% more, um, efficiency
in your generation, you get 15% more
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:bang for your buck for the capital
cost of putting up a wind turbine.
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:Now, I guarantee you guys have
actually got a rare earth magnet
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:motor at home right now, or if you
haven't, a lot of, a lot of people
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:who listen to this will have.
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:Anybody got a brushless cordless
drill, that's what they sell 'em as.
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:Now they've got a permanent magnet motor
in it that will generally use rare Earth.
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:So, so they are kind of all around
us, but with the energy transition
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:that's going on, the demand for rare
earths has really jumped, jumped
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:through the roof in recent days.
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:Add to that, the whole covid situation and
wanting to have diversification of supply
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:chains outside of one particular country
and, and all of a sudden the, the world
131
:is sort of thinking critical minerals.
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:We've all heard about lithium and
graphite and so on and so forth, but
133
:they're starting to think about rare
earths in reality and, and saying,
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:we need different sources of these to
actually achieve the goals that we have
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:for decarbonizing our, our society.
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:It, it's interesting, Stuart,
that you mentioned the supply
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:chain for railroad there.
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:I was reminded of the other day when
I was in Bunnings, which is the chain
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:of hardware doors here in Australia.
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:And I could these, some neodinium
magnets, which were on sale, I think
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:they were for hanging pictures.
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:So just these tiny magnets, which you
stick to the back of a picture frame.
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:And because of the work that I'm doing
with Afuera, it immediately made me
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:think of where that magnet has come from.
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:So where the, where the original iron or,
oh, sorry, original, um, nd or would've
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:come from where it would've been processed
probably in China, and then it had
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:made its way all the way to Australia.
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:Wow.
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:There's a lot of science going
around and I'm enjoying it.
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:Um, but so what you're saying is that
rare earth makes, um, our use of energy
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:more efficient when, when it comes to
electric motors, which you need for an
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:electric vehicle or a wind turbine, those
rare earth permanent magnet that go into
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:those, um, motors are more efficient.
154
:I mean, rare earths are used
in a lot of other things.
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:I mean, yo know, uh, we other rare
earths, those are neodymium and
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:Presidium, other rare earths like, um,
serum and lanum are used and they're
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:a lot more abundant than N D P R.
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:They're used in catalysts
for, um, refining.
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:Um, if you do have a petrol car,
you stinky heathen, you know, really
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:the, the catalyst that converts,
uh, in the, um, in, in the catalytic
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:converter would have lan in a, in it.
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:So rare earths are all around us, if
you like, they're the 11, part of the
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:11, her special herbs and spices that
go into making ordinary everyday things.
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:Amazing.
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:. So it's not just rare,
it's like rare earth.
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:There's like a lot of them.
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:It's not just one specific
thing we're talking about.
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:Yeah.
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:There, there's, there's about, oh, and
my, this is where I find the, the chemical
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:engineer doesn't have much chemistry.
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:I think there's about 11 rare
earths that are 11 elements that
172
:are classified as rare earths.
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:, it's also probably important to
differentiate between critical
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:minerals and rare earth, cuz
they're two similar founding things.
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:But actually rare earth is a
subset of critical minerals.
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:Mm-hmm.
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:Um, criticality, uh, when we talk
about critical minerals, is really
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:referring to the importance of
these whole range of different
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:minerals in the energy transition.
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:Uh, and the fact that supply for
a lot of them is gonna have to
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:increase in scale dramatically.
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:Um, but they're not interchangeable terms.
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:Rare earth is one subset of
a larger, larger definition.
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:Wow.
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:And that includes things
like copper, for example.
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:So, so traditional metal, but
which we're gonna need a lot more
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:of as we electrify everything.
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:Hmm.
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:I've read somewhere.
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:Um, they, , we have found, um, some
rare earth in Sweden, but , it will
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:take some time, it will take probably
it's 15 years for, the rare herbs
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:from Sweden to be used in our, , to
get into our, phones or electrical.
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:So, and in 15 years we'll even do it.
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:, we would need this kind of
a cnce in our, um, vein.
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:So why does it take so long?
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:Look, and, and I think, I think Max
touched on it earlier, you know, it,
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:it really comes down to the processing.
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:Um, the, the mining of
these things is fairly easy.
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:I mean, you know, dig it up as a whole.
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:It's, it's the same as mining anything.
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:But the processing, because what
you're trying to do is take something
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:that's one or 2% of all rare earths.
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:So of our OR body, for example, at
Nolan's, um, you know, we're, our
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:head grade is, is around that sort
of, you know, about 0.7, 0.8% N D P R.
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:And we take that 0.7 or 0.8%.
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:We refine that to 99.9% N D P R.
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:So, you know, there, there's a massive
amount of processing that goes on
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:and, and these things are really, um,
there, there's a, uh, there's a lot
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:of chemistry that goes into it to both
get it into a form that you can play
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:with it, get it in solution, purify
it, separate it from those, from the
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:other rare earths as well at the end.
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:So it's the processing
that takes the time.
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:And, and to give you some perspective,
you know, Nolans was discovered.
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:That's the project that I'm running,
s was discovered in, in about:
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:You know, they're out
there looking for uranium.
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:Um, luckily the, the, the, the deposit
was largely outcropping, so it was,
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:uh, expressing through the surface.
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:And so a plane with a, a radiometer,
um, very sensitive radiometer flew
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:over the top of it and it went spining.
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:There you go.
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:And so they went and looked at the
rocks and went, oh, there's not enough
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:uranium there to be, uh, interesting.
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:But, uh, another geologist came
along and went, ah, there's
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:some rare earths in that.
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:And, but it took us, we've been going
for, uh, you know, twen 20 plus years to
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:work out and crack the Rosetta stone of
how to process this particular or body
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:and how much it is there and where it
is, and all those fun, other fun things
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:you do in mining, um, to actually work
out how to get the rare earth out of it
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:in a, in a, in a cost effective manner.
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:Wow.
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:Reminds me of Black Panther,
you know, looking for vibranium.
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:Oh, look, no, this stuff is
way more fun than vibranium.
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:And you know, I, you, you, you do
have the advantage of seeing me.
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:You can imagine me in a, in
a, in a tight leather suit.
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:Oh, there's a reason I'm an engineer.
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:Yes.
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:Yeah.
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:Better move the conversation
more quickly from that.
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:I, I think that, go ahead.
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:Sorry.
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:No, I was just gonna say, if this is
more interesting than vibranium, then
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:this just got like 1000% more core.
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