Understanding who is viewing your website, and why you should incorporate a natural flow of expected behavior that increases conversion.
Once in a while you make a decision that affects your business and 100% of your revenue stream. Such was the case with Joshua Becker of Becoming Minimalist, except that he had someone else to share the blame with when things fell apart — me.
Nearly a year ago, I redesigned his website, and along the way I insisted we remove his sidebar … which was where he was selling his books. In the spirit of minimalism, we felt it was necessary and the impact it had was something neither one of us expected.
In this 18-minute episode Joshua Becker and I discuss:
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Brian Gardner: Hey everyone, welcome to the No Sidebar podcast. I m your host Brian Gardner, and I m here to help you identify the things that stand in the way of building your online business. Together we ll learn how to eliminate the unnecessary, increase conversion, design a better business, and build a more beautiful web.
Alright, so last week I spent some time sharing my journey from my desk job to dream job, and how that process encompassed that dirty word – fear. It s something I had to overcome to get to where I am at today, and it definitely didn t come without challenges.
Today, I want to lighten things up a little bit, and I have a very special guest that I am excited to talk to.
Before we get there, here s something important I would like you to know.
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Well after a conversation with his neighbor in 2008, my guest and his family decided to become minimalists and intentionally live with few possessions. They immediately cleared the clutter from their home, and their lives. As a result, they found a better way to live set on more important pursuits.
It s been a journey of discovering that abundant life is actually found in owning less, and it still ranks as one of the best decisions they have ever made.
His story has been seen on the CBS Evening News, NPR, The Boston Globe, Wall Street Journal and countless other media interviews around the world. His book Simplify and Clutter Free with Kids made him a bestselling author.
Not do I only have the pleasure of having him on the show today, I also consider him a personal friend. So without further ado, I d like to introduce today s guest, Joshua Becker.
Joshua, welcome to the show, and thank you so much for making the time to be here.
Joshua Becker: Hey, it s a pleasure to be here Brian. You are a good friend, you have been super helpful to me in life and online, so it s a pleasure to have this conversation. I m looking forward to it.
Brian Gardner: Now before we get into what you are doing, and where you are at now, can you give us a little history of where you have been? I know you have spent some time in Vermont and Nebraska. What s the prequel to Becoming Minimalist?
Joshua Becker: Yeah, I m happy to give the back story. I don t know how far back you want to go? I grew up in the Midwest – South Dakota, North Dakota. I went to college in Nebraska. I got a degree in banking and finance, and then went to work at churches as a pastor. So that s a natural segue from finance and into pastoring.
I started work at churches in Nebraska, Wisconsin, and Vermont. I loved what I was doing – just being involved in people s lives. A pretty typical middle class suburban lifestyle is what I grew up in and what I ve always lived with. The number of pay increases and job promotions, bigger churches, bigger paychecks. Each time we moved, we bought a bigger house and more stuff. I just kind of lived in this pretty typical American dream lifestyle that people would think of.
As you mentioned, it was a conversation I had with my neighbor, when I was cleaning out the garage on a Saturday morning. My son, who was 5 at the time, was alone in the backyard, and just the realization that all this stuff I was owning, was not just making me happy, but it was actually distracting me. It was actually taking me away from the things that did bring happiness in my life. And by that I mean, it was distracting my time, and energy, and focus and that began our story six years ago of deciding to own less, on purpose.
Becoming Minimalist was the website we started first just to journal our progress. And then eventually become a place where we hoped to inspire others to find the same life change that we have discovered.
Brian Gardner: So the website is designed to inspire others, to pursue their greatest passions by owning fewer possessions, right?
Most of the stuff you write about on the site is that – owning fewer possessions. And the directive, like you think, that has on happiness.
So do you think this kind of mentality goes beyond what you own? Perhaps other areas in life are applicable to the same kind of thinking?
Joshua Becker: Yeah, I don t think we have any realization of how much of a burden our possessions had become, until we tried to remove them. And for me it was when I was cleaning the garage, and my son had spent all morning by himself, I think we all know, or at least we would all say that we know our possessions aren t making us happy. No one ever says they are looking for happiness in the things that they own. But for me, and for most of us, it was a deeper realization that not only are my possessions not making me happy, but they are taking me away from the very things that do bring happiness and fulfilment into my life.
And so the removal of them, and the intentional decision to just own the things that I needed to fulfil what I need to fulfil in my life, was one of the most life giving decisions that we ever made.
Brian Gardner: I love what you said about our possessions and that we don t realize how much of a burden they become until we try to remove them.
You also talk about the deeper realization that not only do these things not make you happy, they take away from the things you want to do.
It seems like I always take ideas like this over to the world of design, and I guess that s second nature. Honestly, this is often how I feel about websites as well. For me this was something that became so true of my own website.
As I mentioned in the first episode of the show, it became evident to me that there were things that I had on my website which didn t belong, and I could do without.
It s probably the same thing that you and Kim found with your possessions, and the happiness you weren t experiencing as well.
Brian Gardner: Well speaking of websites, let s talk for a minute about yours – Becoming Minimalist.
Tell us a little bit about how that got started.
Joshua Becker: The quick story is I started the website much on a whim. It was a Saturday morning and the website maybe began that Monday evening, just I was going to start writing about what I was doing and what I was getting rid of and the things that I was learning. And there was no intentionality to it. BecomingMinimalist.WordPress.com was free to sign up and the domain was available. So I got it.
Looking back I am probably only doing what I do now because I made that decision, just on a whim obviously. We wrote for maybe about a year and a half. I wrote a post on belts. It was like 18 months we had gone through our house in six or nine months and I m just trying to figure out, what in the heck am I going to write about?
I just remember Belts was the title of it. And I said, Belts. How come I never thought of that before. And started labelling the belts I got rid of. And I m like, What am I doing? I think I have written enough about myself here, and so the very next post was, Hey, here s some things that I have learned about becoming minimalist. So it went from my journey, and into Hey, how can we inspire others to find this. And that s when the real growth of the website took off. When it was less about me, and became more about the reader.
Brian Gardner: So some time goes by, and you have this very successful website and things are going well for you. Traffic is increasing, your Facebook page is growing and book sales are on the rise, and then I come along.
I don t remember the exact story, but I do know that it happened on social media and I probably overstepped my bounds at the time. What I do know is I wanted to challenge and take something that was already minimal in a sense, and make it even more minimal.
So I thought it would be fun to hit you up and see if I could redesign for you.
Now one of the things I remember insisting on doing for the site is removing the sidebar. You showed a little bit of hesitance at first because that was the only place you were selling your books. Honestly, I was a bit worried too at first, since I was pitching to you such a radical change.
Joshua Becker: I ll tell you the exact story first, because I remember it very well. We had started interacting a little bit on Twitter, just about minimalism and some different things that I was writing. You put out a tweet one day, you said, Hey, I got bored today so I redesigned my site. Or something like that. And I clicked through and I was like, I can t believe you did that in a day. Who are you? Because that s amazing. And I wrote back, and I said something like, Man, I wish I had the skills that you have. And you tweeted back and you said, If you ever need a redesign for Becoming Minimalist, all you have to do is ask. I said, Well I am asking. Let s do it.
You were very helpful in the process in pushing me towards even a more minimalist approach than I had before. Even some things that I wanted to include, besides the sidebar, where I remember you saying, Hey look, at some point you are going to have to cut something out. Like you can t include everything if you want this to look as minimalist as you do. And so thanks for doing that.
Almost all of my income is from book sales, which I m just fortunate to sell enough each month to live on, and that s where all my income was coming from – the ads in the sidebar. The website would drive people to the books. We had two, I don t know if they were 250, or 125 x 125 ads on the side about the books, and just sending people towards them. And you said, Let s get rid of them. And I was scared to death because that s where all my income was coming from.
Joshua Becker: We moved it just to links at the bottom on the post and we did it just as a test at the beginning, not that we were going to go back to a sidebar necessarily, but a test to see if we would sell enough books to make it work, and we did. They ve steadily rose each month from the time that we did that. I was just looking at the numbers before we headed in here. And obviously, if it hadn t worked, we would have gone back to something, but it s interesting how that worked out.
I was just trying to think through if I could maybe put my finger on why that worked, why removing the sidebar actually became more financially beneficial and ended up moving more books. And I think one of it is because the content becomes what the site is about. I hop on these websites and up pops this Signup for my email newsletter and I m like, I don t even know you. Why am I going to signup for your email? I just came to read who you are and what you have. And if I read what you have and I enjoy it, and I find benefit in it and value in it, then I am going to be interested in your email, but I am never going to signup before I ve read what you have to write.
And when we removed the sidebar, it said, Okay, this is what s important. This is what I am offering you today – this writing, these thoughts, my opinions, my world view. If they resonate with you, then here s where you can find out more. And I think it s the calls to action have been minimized. You know, it s not Hey, you can do this, or you can do this, or you can do that. It s, Hey, this is what I am writing, if you want to find out more, here s the books to help you pursue this even a little bit further.
Brian Gardner: Rest assured my friend I am so glad that the book sales continue to go well, and I remember on a number of occasions I wanted to email you to check in about that, and I figured that no news was good news and that the sales were going along just fine.
Brian Gardner: Okay, so you talked about some of the email signups and things like that, and it makes me think of something I call intentional design. This is an approach to the web where we specifically place things where we think they will naturally belong, from the eyes of a site visitors and also from the psychology behind their visit.
So moving along, Becoming Minimalist in my eyes is a great example, as it started out as more of a fun blog and has become a job for you – something that you do professionally and take seriously on a number of levels. Do you have any words of wisdom for our listeners that are starting out as a blogger? I know folks who are starting out think of things like monetization, building an audience, conversion and stuff like that, do you have any words of wisdom for those types of folks?
Joshua Becker: You know, early on when I had my site and I was just getting started, I remember thinking, Okay, what can I do to just get more clicks on my site. So I got popular posts listed on the side, and there s archives by date and all these places where I was just hoping that someone would click so that I was getting more paid views on my website. And that s all they were doing, and then additionally, I ll come back to that, but additionally Leo Babauta I think says it very well about selling ads, and I m okay with having ads on your site, if they align with what you are doing.
He said, What you are basically doing is you are selling your readers attention. You are getting paid to have this ad on your site, and in exchange you are giving away your readers attention to whatever company has paid you the money to put their ad their.
What I think happens is, we add all these things where we are trying to add more page views on our site, we re adding these ads because there is this little trickle of money that s coming in.
And what we are doing is, we are really just diverting our readers attention away from what we spent so much time crafting and preparing, and the writing itself that they were hoping is the one thing that has the impact on someone s life, and you know, that s how I think we build an audience. That s how we build a community as we offer value into their life and we are not diverting their eyes to all these different things on our site – but we are saying, Hey, this is what I m about. This is what I am writing about. If you want more of this, here s a natural next step.
I think some people would be nervous to put the books at the end of an article. They want their books or their products above the fold, as they say. I m like, Well, if someone is not going to read past the fold on your article, they are not going to have much interest in anything else that you are selling. So having it down there makes perfect sense if they like what you have read, and they like it all the way through, then they are naturally going to be interested in finding more about it.
Brian Gardner: One of the things I was pretty insistent about with the redesign was the use of a particular typeface called Proxima Nova. To be honest with you, I almost succumbed to fear about the whole deal, as...