How does a neurosurgeon become a billion-dollar syndicator? In this episode, Dr. Buck Joffrey shares his journey from the operating room to building a multi-billion real estate portfolio. Tune in as he breaks down why he treats investments like a business, the power of cost segregation and bonus depreciation, infinite banking strategies, and his macro outlook on interest rates, inflation, and the dollar. 

Key takeaways to listen for

• A way to build medical practices like businesses
• How to evaluate value-add multifamily and create defensible NOI growth
• Why bonus depreciation often beats 1031 exchanges for tax savings
• Everything you need to know about infinite banking
• What is meant by macro outlook, and why now is the time to buy assets

Resources mentioned in this episode

• 7 Secrets of Eternal Wealth by Buck Joffrey MD | Kindle and Paperback
• Rich Dad's Cashflow Quadrant by Robert T. Kiyosaki | Hardcover and Paperback

Explore Wealth Formula Banking and learn infinite banking strategies to grow and protect your wealth. Check out the Wealth Formula Podcast and investor resources at https://www.wealthformula.com/.

About Dr. Buck Joffrey

Matthew D. Sanchez is the Broker/Owner of MarketPlace Realty, LLC in Denver, Colorado, with over 30 years of real estate experience. Since founding the firm in 1992, he has led it to become a trusted name in residential, commercial, and land transactions across the Denver metro area. Known for his market expertise and client-first approach, Sanchez has built a reputation for integrity and consistent results. Beyond real estate, he’s actively involved in community development, reflecting his commitment to both professional excellence and local impact.

Connect with Dr. Buck

• Website: Wealth Formula
• Podcast: Wealth Formula Podcast | Apple Podcasts and Spotify

  Longevity Roadmap Podcast | Apple Podcasts and Spotify

• Facebook: Wealth Formula 
• X: @BuckJoffrey 
• LinkedIn: Buck Joffrey, MD
• YouTube: Wealth Formula  

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Buck Joffrey: 00:00:00

The number one thing there is jobs because people have to live somewhere. If there's no jobs, they're not going to have a growing population. So you got to look at some of those things.

You got to look at absorption, construction, things like that. The next step is, you know, identifying the asset.

Neil Henderson: 00:00:20

Welcome to Truly Passive Income. I'm Neil Henderson.

Clint Harris: 00:00:23

And I'm Clint Harris. And Today's guest is Dr. Buck Joffrey.

He's a surgeon turned entrepreneur, he's host of the Wealth Formula podcast, and he's the best best selling author of the seven Secrets of Eternal Wealth.

So Buck has helped high income professionals move beyond the golden handcuffs that you often hear me talk about and into cash flowing alternatives using business rigor and tax efficient strategies to build durable wealth. I'm very excited to, to dig into his playbook for passive income that actually buys back your time.

So, Dr. Buck Joffrey, really appreciate you being here today, sir. How are you?

Buck Joffrey: 00:00:58

I'm good, thanks for having me.

Clint Harris: 00:00:59

Excellent. Yeah, thanks for being here. A lot to unpack here. You've, you've got a, a whole lot going on here. And you. I love these types of conversations.

It's not every day that we get a white coat professional physician, specifically surgeon, that's, that has the skill set to kind of jump into the real estate world as well. That's, I usually am in the opposite scenario. That's the world that I come from.

And so most of what I focus on is educating people in that world that are just stepping in over here. And this is completely the opposite. I have a lot to learn from you today and I'm excited about it. So tell us a little bit about your background.

Obviously from the, from the medicine side of things and then the entrepreneurial brain that you must have that pulled you in the direction of doing something bigger than that.

Buck Joffrey: 00:01:43

Yeah, you know, sort of classic good student from the standpoint of the medicine stuff. You know, ended up, ended up going to med school because I didn't know what to do with a biology degree other than go to med school or get a PhD.

So I went to med school and pretty quickly decided. I ended up starting out neurosurgery after med school at Michigan and ended up at head and neck surgery at UC San Francisco.

So, you know, again, very academic institution. So you get a sense for doctors out there. I was doing, you know, the whole, the whole thing.

It was, I was going deep in very, very competitive specialties and some of the high best institutions in the world. I kind of got burned out on Academics. Even though I was, I was good at it.

I think I thought I was going to end up being a chairman somewhere and from head and neck, ended up getting some additional training in plastics and ended up doing a private practice actually. So I went from, you know, brain surgery to ultimately doing liposuction and facelifts and things like that, but the full range.

But, you know, I think that that transition for me in part was I think, my own sort of falling out with, with academia. And then when I decided to go in that other direction of, of trying to being, I guess, more.

A little bit more lifestyle oriented and, you know, that kind of thing. I also discovered almost immediately after residency training, I accidentally read one of Robert Kiyosaki's books called the Cash Flow Quadrant.

And that book, which remarkably, I picked up at a Mexican airport on the, on the way back from my honeymoon because I, you know, I. There was no other books there just. But Harlatan romance novels and that.

And I didn't know Robert was, you know, since then I've gotten to know him and, and had him on my show a bunch of times. But, you know, he. That book, for whatever reason, you know, Robert's books are funny because they're, they're very simplistic in a way.

Like, you read them and you're like, yeah, you know, that, that's written like for somebody who's like in fifth grade, but for those of us who never even thought about entrepreneurship because we're so busy with our head and books and thinking about jobs, for me, it was like a lightning bolt. And the next thing you know, I was just, you know, I was just a changed person, you know, on a flight and sort of in a very, very crazed way.

And now you have to understand, like, I'm. We did surgical training. So now I'm. I just finished.

I'm already like 32, 33 years old and like that and I just got married and, you know, that kind of thing. But the good thing about that was, still, was that I had the whole world in front of me.

I didn't really have, you know, I think maybe my now ex wife was pregnant with her first one, right. And so I was like, I got about 18 years to screw this up and fix it, and so I can do whatever right now. So it was like the best thing in the world.

So I went all in initially entrepreneurial on the medical side. You know, I told you I was doing cosmetics and I ran it like a business.

on Dr. Joffrey on, you know,: 90210

So built like this business and did that again in another area in medicine. But the net result of that is I ended up making some money. Okay. Now my family come from an immigrant family.

My dad is an engineer and ultimately he was kind of the same entrepreneurial, wired guy. He ended up going into real estate and for the most part, for the last, you know, at this point for all of my life, he was a real estate guy.

I didn't really care what he did. I didn't sound fun at all because he did it the way you think about real estate, right.

He was a landlord and we get calls all day long and, and you know, he was into low income housing. Hey, it worked for him, right? He grew up poor and became a millionaire in the, in the US in the 80s.

That's a big deal, you know, going from like not having anything to eat, do that. But I was spoiled, right, Growing up sort of upper middle class. Middle class whatever.

Or you know, upper middle class, upper class in the Midwest and having every opportunity in the world, prep schools and all that stuff. So I was focused on what I thought was the societal, you know, thing to do, the thing to be on the top of the hierarchy.

So you know, of course neurosurgery and all that stuff. Right. Anyway, when I fell back when I had the money, the first thing I was, oh, what do I do with it?

Well, I wasn't wired to put it in the stock market. My, my dad was terrible in the stock market, the dot com bubble.

He's like the worst investor on earth and lost millions of dollars and, and so ironically my upbringing was very different perspective where that put your money in the stock market, let grow that stuff was a risky proposition. Not, that wasn't the safe proposition.

The safe proposition was to put it in real estate like he'd been doing now for I don't know how many years at that point, 30 years. So that's what I started doing.

I started buying apartment buildings in, in Chicago where I was living at that point, small ones, you know, and I try to buy like one or two a year, you know, and that was kind of my goal. And, and then next thing you know I was, you know, listen, a lot of this is timing too, right?

So you know, I bought a few buildings and a Few years later, sold them for like 500% of what I, you know, of, of my, of my invested capital. And so I, I was like, whoa, what is going on here? This is something different.

And in the meantime, my medical side, I can kind of get burned out on it. So I kind of made it independent, got other guys to do it, and I wanted to learn more about this space.

And now Understand this is: 2014

I was trying to figure out how to put real money to work. And so I'd find a little bit of this on this show, a little bit of that. And that show, I'm like, I just got to start a podcast.

And the reason was that this way I could learn from people I interviewed. Kind of like what you guys are doing.

Clint Harris: 00:08:47

Why do you think you're on this show right now?

Buck Joffrey: 00:08:50

Yeah, I mean, there's no sense in talking to people, you know, more than you know.

That's why when you come my show, I'm, I'm talking to economists and all that, because, you know, I'm trying to learn, trying to learn from people I, that don't know, that do know more than me. And so, so that's what I did. And I've been doing that for a decade.

And somewhere along the line, you know, with some of the successes I had, people say, yeah, next time you do a deal, you let me know and maybe, maybe I can come in for a little bit of money. And then sort of, it all kind of came together. I started hearing about real estate syndication.

I'm like, if I'm doing this and I'm doing it successfully, maybe people want to join me. And so I put literally on my website, on a whim, I started what I called investor club. Accredited investor club.

If you're an accredited investor, come get onboarded, talk to you, and if there's a deal, we'll let you know.

ed out doing that probably in: 2016

I, I, I also don't want to just say everybody needs to be only Real estate. That's. That's not where I'm at. That's just kind of where I ended up.

Clint Harris: 00:10:16

I love that, man. There's so much to unpack here that you, first of all, you're a great storyteller, communicator.

So I really want to dig in on a lot of this, but I also want to keep it high level and fair and move fairly quickly. You don't just go like, it's not normal. Some of the stuff, you were doing it before it was cool, right?

The podcasting, you're kind of doing it before it was cool. I think you make a really important point that I brought up on. We're 145 episodes in on this one. I brought this up at least a dozen times.

I used to think the value was, you know, I was a big proponent of the law of 100 hours. If you want to learn about something, spend 100 hours learning on any subject.

You're going to know more than 95% of the population of the planet on that individual subject. Well, within a year. That's only 18 minutes a day. So I'm big on that.

Well, that's the average commute or less than the average commute the average person has to work. So just take that windshield time and turn that into podcast time and focus on a specific subject.

That law of a hundred hours is going to compound for you, especially if you start stacking. The years of doing that. That used to be my mentality and still is. I still do that. I listen to a lot of audiobooks and podcasts.

But listen, man, if you really want to learn about something, don't listen to podcasts. Start a podcast if you find the smartest. If I.

If you and I don't have a relationship and I reach out to you and I'm trying to get lunch with you, there's a good chance that's probably going to cost me ten grand. Or you're going to say no.

Or it's going to involve really challenging lining up of schedules and flying across the country, versus if we create some kind of platform that's going to help you build your footprint. You're generous enough to come on and give us an hour of your time.

And I'm lucky enough to not only be able to ask you the questions, but to be able to record it. And just like you mentioned, Robert Kiyosaki's books being a simple read, but with profound concepts in there.

Usually you say Robert Kiyosaki, it's the Purple Bible, right? It's the rich dad, poor dad, purple pill, right?

Buck Joffrey: 00:12:09

Exactly.

Clint Harris: 00:12:10

But I'm actually one of the few that agree with you. I got more out of cash flow quadrant than I did out of rich dad, poor dad. But it's. There's a parallel here with what you're saying about podcasts.

I have found that with his style of writing, even though it's super simplistic, there's some really important lessons there.

And if you reread that same book several times over a couple years, there's a really good chance you're going to get different lessons out of it every time that you do. And it's.

That's one of about a dozen books that, in my mind, is worth rereading every other year, at least a few times, because you're gonna pick up something that maybe is more applicable in your life right now than it was a year ago. Maybe a year ago. You didn't even realize that you heard it. You just glossed right over it.

So I love that you're the first person to come on here and be like, well, you know, I had a website, I started an investor club, and ipso facto, a billion dollars. We kind of, we glossed over that, right? We have a lot of people that have raised a few million here, 10 million there.

We got a couple people raising a hundred million there. Here or there. What do you attribute that level of. Obviously, you attribute that level of success.

You do not get there without being a great operator and also a great communicator and a great educator. Outside of that, why do you think you've been able to raise a billion dollars? Is it because of the, you have accolades, right?

The accolades of, I'm a neurosurgeon. I've got this background. You're a healer. Like, people are entrusting you to be a healer, make people's lives better.

And so there's an inherent level of trust that comes with that. Also. I've got college buddies.

You've got med school buddies and fellowship buddies and residency buddies and surgeon buddies and neurosurgeon buddies. Like, so you have a broader footprint as well in terms of where capital is. Is it a combination of those things?

Or what would you say has made you so successful?

Buck Joffrey: 00:14:05

I think, you know, I, I just, you know, I, I, I have an avatar, right?

I started out with an avatar, and the avatar is essentially who I was when I was, you know, Now I'm, I'm 52, maybe when I was 35, 40 years old, that was my avatar. And I Always spoke to that same person. Now, interestingly, I, Even though I'm a physician, I have never tried to target physicians.

I've not tried to really target anybody other than that guy who is me. And the reason I say that is because, you know, I think that's. It's a mistake. There's a lot of.

Most physicians don't think like me, and they don't want to think like me. And, And I'm not out here to. To try to try to get anybody to do that.

I just speak what I think is true, what I believe in, and my view of the world resonates with a certain group of people. And I've been around long enough that a lot of people found me. I think it's a, you know, some of it is luck, frankly.

I mean, listen, I was podcasting well before. You know, most podcasts are out there now. It's a very, very busy place to get any attention. Right. And so, you know, if you go back and I'm, I'm.

I'm out there 10 years ago, it certainly helps. But I think at the end of the day, like, my focus has always been education and even in raising capital.

I think, like, when we'll have a webinar or something like that, what I'd like to do is. I'm not, I'm not selling this to you so much. What I'm trying to do is teach you about it. Okay, I'm going to teach you about it.

I'm going to tell you why I think it's a good deal or if somebody's presenting it, why, you know, I'll, I'll point out the things that I think are really interesting about this. And anytime we have any kind of offering, it's a teaching moment. Now, I don't care if you invest or not.

You know, I mean, of course, you know, as a syndicator, it's nice to. When people do, right? But the goal is always education. And I think if you have a single message, a single voice, and authenticity.

Authenticity, I think people recognize that. So I love that that's the right.

Clint Harris: 00:16:27

Approach, because even if something looks like a great deal, the reality is we don't know if it's a great deal for that person that's looking at it.

Buck Joffrey: 00:16:34

Yeah, and we, and we could be wrong. You know, I mean, we've. We've, you know, not always we've done, you know, we've gotten right more often than not.

But sometimes, sometimes you can't predict certain things. Like, you know, the economy's a tricky thing. And we came off, you know, I was lucky in that I started at the beginning of the last boom almost. Right.

Clint Harris: 00:16:58

We're talking about post: 2008

Buck Joffrey: 00:17:02

We were all the way up a decade or more of a bull market in real estate. And I think that certainly helps as well, right? I mean, like anything else, it's like you do the best you can. You.

And you know, sometimes you also get a little bit. You get a little lucky too, so.

Clint Harris: 00:17:25

Yeah, totally.

Well, one of the things you said early, it kind of resonated with me is that you said that you operated your private practice like a business and that you were very intentional with that. Because I've heard you, I know that you treat multifamily as a business as well.

And I've heard you use the terminology instead of buy and hold assets. Some people are investing with buy and hope assets is that they're just kind of buying. And real estate is a very forgiving asset class.

You can buy a deal that's a bad deal and if you wait long enough, a lot of times it turns into a good deal. And you maybe look like a genius that you really aren't.

But walk me through the first 100 days when you were looking at a value add multifamily deal for you. Where do you find the fastest and most defensible net operating income gains?

Buck Joffrey: 00:18:09

Well, I mean, I think I should, I should point out at this point, like, you know, I have operations teams that, that do all of that. And I think. But there's patterns that we look for, right? I mean, we look for. First, it starts with the market.

You got to start with a market and the number one thing there is jobs, because people have to live somewhere. If there's no jobs, they're not gonna. You're not gonna have a growing population. So you gotta look at some of those things.

You gotta look at absorption, construction, things like that. The next step is identifying the assets.

And I think the assets really the way that for the most part, we like the idea of creating equity as much as possible. That's where the whole buy and hope thing is not necessarily a good idea.

Obviously you gotta hope a little bit anyway because it'll make a difference if you have tailwinds behind you or against you.

But, you know, looking at what given properties comparable, you know, what kind of rents are they getting, what are the comps, when was the last time this thing was updated, those kinds of things. You want to make sure that you have an ability to Force equity. Right.

Equity happens not only by changes in the macroeconomic landscape, but it also happens on the level of, of the property itself. And like in any business, it ends up being a simple matter of can you increase income and decrease expenses or at least create more delta.

And if there's not an opportunity to do that, that's generally not in our buy box. Right.

There's nothing wrong with buying an asset that of course, is, you know, already in a good shape and you're just going to plan to hold it for a long time and get, you know, get cash flow. There's nothing wrong with that, but that's just not kind of what we do.

We look for opportunities and we look for opportunities to, to increase rent that's realistic and ultimately be opportunistic about when, when we sell.

Neil Henderson: 00:20:26

n plus a cost seg over like a: 1031

Clint Harris: 00:20:47

Or combination of all three?

Neil Henderson: 00:20:48

Yeah.

And what common mistakes do you see passive investors make around recapture, you know, that burn passive investors when they're trying to do that trade up?

Buck Joffrey: 00:20:58

ight. You almost don't need a: 1031

Most of the time you don't. I mean, if you have leverage on something, you think about it, right?

Like, so if you came out of something, you know, you came out with it with say $200,000 of profit and you know, you had $300,000 as your basis and now you have 500 grand there. Your, your taxes on, you know, your capital gains taxes on that 200 grand. Right.

Now, what if you take the whole half million bucks and you invest it something in something that's using. I don't let's just for round number, 70% loan to value, right. So you bought something for, I don't know, 1.5 million from that half million.

Now if you do a cost segregation analysis on that, at least in multifamily, almost always, it's going to be about 70% of that, that property is going to be real property and 30% of it is going to be personal property. Well, guess what, you, your $500,000 basically is 30% of that of that new property value.

liability. So right now with: 1031

And sometimes they're just kind of a pain because it puts you in a box. You have to, you know, you have to sit around and you have to find something quickly.

se most of the time you can't: 1031

Right? Sometimes you can, sometimes we have some ways that you can do that. However, most of the time with syndications, you can't do that.

But as long as you're kind of rolling it forward, it's sort of like a hamster wheel, right? It's a golden hamster wheel, right? One that's gonna save you money and, and let you grow your wealth.

n't really see a big value in: 1031

Neil Henderson: 00:23:27

And how do you typically, you know, one of the challenges that we try to focus with, with LPs is, you know, if you've got an exit towards the end of the year, that's, you know, that can be a challenge.

Now you're suddenly kind of scrambling for, all right, you know, now we got to find somewhere to put it and is, are we going to take that bonus appreciation in that year is going to be in the next year. How do you typically deal with that?

Buck Joffrey: 00:23:50

Well, if it's toward the end of the year, if there's, well, first of all, we try not to have exits or the end of the year. Right. It just, just puts everybody in a bad position there.

one of the indications for a: 1031

You give, you, give you a few months to, to figure things out.

Clint Harris: 00:24:17

So I'm going to ask a selfish question here, as most of them are for me, because it's rare for me to get the opportunity to pin you down on things like this. So I, I utilize infinite banking. I have overfunded cash value life insurance policies that I am able to, So I get the death benefit.

The death benefit is almost an ancillary benefit. There's some tax benefits from that, but also I can borrow against that and then turn around and put that to work.

And if I, I'm paying like 4% on, on a loan to get that money back, if I can turn around and put it into something else, starts to get to the point of compounding and the break even point of paying into that is usually like 2.7, 2.9 years, something like that. And then it starts to ramp up. That's a little oversimplification for those listening.

I know that you're a proponent of overfunding whole value life insurance policies. What's your, what's your strategy on this?

How do you educate, give me the high level view of, of what you say to your, your people that are listening to you.

Buck Joffrey: 00:25:10

Well, yeah, so I started doing the stuff myself and as is often the case is sort of ended up building a business around it. So you know, we have our wealth formula banking. Wealth formula banking.com is, you know, where we do, where we provide some of this stuff.

But is it, the idea is, you know, for the most part, as you said to me, the, the value, the big thing that from the infinite banking or what we call wealth formula banking is this is, that is effectively because you, you have money growing at a fixed rate, right? The dividend plus the dividend, which is for most insurance companies, it's not something they're not going to do that.

You know, Penn Mutual, Massmutual, these companies have had dividends nonstop for over a hundred years, right? And then there's a guaranteed rate.

So you have like, say maybe you're rolling around at, you know, 5%, which is not great, but it's better than sitting in, you know, a checking account or savings account getting less than 1. And you get, what you're doing there essentially is you're getting the opportunity to borrow that money to deploy into something else.

Now here's the catcher. When you borrow, you're borrowing at a simple interest rate off of the insurance company's ledger, okay.

Meanwhile, your money that was growing at five, maybe five and a half percent, whatever, continues to stay there and grows at a compounding interest rate. So essentially what that allows you to do is take the same money and grow it in two different places at the same time.

And that to me, when I figured that out, I was like, oh, that's what they mean about. I kept hearing people talk about be your own bank. And for the longest time I was like, what the hell does that mean?

I don't even know what that means. And but then it, then it clicked and it, and it made a lot of sense.

And then when I kind of went down that pathway with life insurance stuff in general, I mean, there is just so much you can do there, it's insane.

Just an anecdote, you know, anecdotally, I mean we, we ended up getting into what are called leveraged Iuls, which basically, you know, you and this type of product that cash value grows with a cap and a floor. You can say T10%, you take the top and nothing more than that.

And then if it hits zero, you don't take, you know, you don't participate in the S&P 500 losses. Right. But if you leverage that up, guess what happens?

That if you get a 10% gain and you're levered up, you end up with a, you know, 20% gain or more. And again, you don't take losses. So that was pretty cool. And that's something we've been doing for retirement income stuff as well.

I'm not a big stock market guy, but if you put guardrails around on it and put leverage on there, it sounds pretty good.

But the other thing that's interesting about that is you can get with these life insurance products like that, you can get some really interesting tax plays as well.

Like you can, you can, you know, essentially pledge your death benefit to charity and not pay ultimately on, on, on those charitable dollars until you die. Because you can have a third party lender front you that money.

You know, we have all sorts of like stuff for generally for people who are, you know, probably making at least 7, 800 grand, it's going to work if you do, you know, if you've got an AGI of 7, 800 grand. But anyway, I digress. My point is that's an area that I really like.

I just think there's just so much you can do there that you don't learn if you're getting the lessons of the middle class and poor. I mean these are all stuff that we're kind of yanking out from the ultra high net worth world. Right?

Clint Harris: 00:29:18

So that's exactly what's happening is you're taking all these quote unquote secret formulas that are now becoming exposed to the masses. And we have a way to communicate now that we the world never had before.

So there's more noise and distraction, but there's also more opportunity than ever before.

And if you connect with people that are trying to educate you versus people trying to sell you something, I think that's the best way to, to move forward and find that. And that's the key for me Is like, that's the.

The concept of infinite banking is that in its simplest form is you're taking money and you're able to use the same dollars and invest it twice. And that's really the key benefit there. So you rinse and repeat. And I love that.

My fear with this interview is that there's so many different directions I would like to go. I use the analogy of, like, being. Sometimes I feel like I'm on an island and I can see the mainland, and I have enough lumber to build the.

The bridge to shore, and I build it 10 direction, 10ft in 15 different directions. The next thing you know, I haven't gone anywhere and I'm out of wood. Right. So I don't want that to happen with this interview.

But there's so many things with you I want to ask. I want to take a little bit of a foray into fitness, sleep hormones, nutrition. Because we're talking about.

There's a distinction between being rich and having wealth.

And what we're talking about is creating wealth for your family in a way that can change what your family looks like in terms of financial velocity for generations. And what's the point of all of this if we're not taking care of ourselves and our relationships? I was a medical rep at the hospital for 16 years.

I hung that up in: 2022

And the biggest thing that I have learned is how far I have to go and how much I have to learn, and it's daunting. I love Dr. Peter Attia. I love a lot of the things that. The access that we have to health in, in terms of self education.

But from your perspective as a physician and with this wealth perspective, where do you stand on, like, things like fitness, on sleep, on taking care of ourselves, the priorities? Like, what's your standpoint on that? The way that you educate?

Buck Joffrey: 00:31:31

Well, it's funny you say that, because most people don't know, but I have another podcast called Longevity Roadmap.

Clint Harris: 00:31:38

Here we go. I knew it. I knew it was in there.

Buck Joffrey: 00:31:41

And again, this started essentially because it's, you know, in the same way with the wealth stuff, I got really interested in, you know, longevity science, got really interested in, in what was coming down the pike. I think there's just an enormous amount of stuff there. My podcast tends to be a little bit wonky. You know, it's.

I talked to Guys who are doing basic science research at the Buck Institute and stuff like that. You know, going back to my own background as a biochemistry guy and so just trying to keep myself busy.

But, I mean, but listen, bottom line is, you know, I think, I think that's a very good point.

I mean, I think we have to take our, take care of ourselves, you know, and we have a lot of tools to do that these days that we didn't have years ago to monitor our own health and, and, and to get educated on things our own, ourselves as well. I mean, you mentioned Peter at tfp. Peter's a great example of that. You know, just being able to provide that information.

You know, there's ways to monitor yourself now with, you can get your own lab tests, you can, you know, get an aura ring, for example, like, you know, to monitor your sleep and get a lot of information online and what that is all about. Diet's nebulous, but, you know, at the end, end of the day, I think there's some things that people agree on.

But yeah, I mean, I, I think it's all, it's all part of the wealth, you know, playbook. So.

Neil Henderson: 00:33:13

Well, we're running out of time, but I don't want to let you get away before we ask you about the economy. You're a, you know, you're a macro guy. You look at the macro economy. We all do.

Anybody who's involved in this industry, you have to keep an eye on it. So we're now sitting here. September.

Clint Harris: 00:33:32

Yeah.

Neil Henderson: 00:33:33

You know, September 18th.

Clint Harris: 00:33:35

Day after a rate cut.

Neil Henderson: 00:33:36

Yeah, day after a rate cut. What do you, like, give us your, not your crystal ball, but like, what's your feeling about what's going on in the economy right now?

Buck Joffrey: 00:33:44

Yeah, I think sometimes you just gotta kind of look at what's happening in the big picture. Right. And, and, and, and I think the biggest thing is that if you look at the, what the Trump administration's doing, they're.

They're gonna take over the Fed.

Clint Harris: 00:34:01

Right.

Buck Joffrey: 00:34:02

There's, uh, Stephen Moran, I think, just got appointed one of the governors. They tried to fire another governor. I don't know how that's gonna work out in the end. But, you know, Powell's gonna get replaced at some point.

They're gonna get, they're gonna get control of this. And what the Trump administration wants to do, I mean, it's, it's.

I mean, if you read Stephen Moran's work, it's very clear the, the guy he just appointed to the Fed. The idea here is essentially Tariffs was first, was the first thing they wanted to do.

The next thing they wanted to do that they want to do is they want to get rates down, right? The Fed rates will come down. They've already coming down 25 basis points. They're going to come down more.

They're going to come down another hundred basis points in the next year, in my view. And I think there's always this concern, well, the Fed rate goes down, but what about the bond market?

Well, they're also in control of quantitative easing, right. So you always just have to look at what the President is saying at this point and what they're doing.

If they get control of the Fed, which they will, interest rates are going to come down. They are going to come down precipitously and that is going to create a tremendous amount of liquidity in the, in the economy.

And that is good for assets, okay? It's good for real estate. It's good for, it's good for stocks, it's good for gold and Bitcoin. You know, it's good for everything. It's.

What it's not good for is the dollar. You know, the dollar is going to, you know, have a real valuation issue, right. It's going to continue to depreciate.

So from my perspective right now, the reality is that we are in a imminently descending interest rate environment.

cial crisis before, right, in: 2008

To me, we have all a lot of information right now, I would bet this that we are at the beginning of, of that next bull market because rates are going, are going to, we're going to be in a descending rate market again. What happens in a descending rate market?

Well, beyond the fact that I just mentioned the additional liquidity when interest rates go down, cap rates compress. So if you're buying real estate right now, you're gonna, you're gonna benefit from that.

You're going to benefit from cap rate compression because interest rates come down, values go up. So if you're finding deals that work at the prices of interest rates today, they're going to work really well when these rates come down.

And we're looking in two years with a ton of liquidity. So my own feeling is it's a great time to buy. It's a tricky thing because a lot of people are scared. I get it. I totally get it.

I mean, I've, I've, you know, taken some beatings myself from 400 basis point increases in interest rates over the course of a very short period of time. Everybody did.

But if you look at what's happening, it's pretty clear to me that we are heading in this, you know, the beginning of potentially a really, really big bull market, not just for real estate, but for stocks and everything else. So I just think people need to get off the sidelines and start buying stuff. I don't care what it is. Buy stocks, buy, you know, buy real estate.

Buy things that are not going to lose value while this happens.

Clint Harris: 00:38:12

Yep. Turn those dollars into dirt because those dollars are going to lose value and the, the dirt's not, it's going to go the other direction. Go ahead.

You got a follow up question?

Neil Henderson: 00:38:20

Yeah, one last follow up question.

Do you have any concern with, you know, if the, if the president sort of takes away the independence of the Fed, that, that will spook the bond market?

And then, you know, like we Talked about the 10 year treasury, all of a sudden the bond traders are like, well, you know, this looks like, you know, I don't like the way this looks. I'm going to, you know, we're going to, we're not going to buy bond. I'm. And we're going to start jacking up the prices on the bonds.

Buck Joffrey: 00:38:45

That is a concern if the administration is not in control of the Fed. However, if they're in control of the Fed, it's called quantitative easing. Right. The next thing you know, you've got monetary policy.

You're just the, the basically huge amount, buying a huge amount of bonds from the open market and that brings yields down. They have complete control of that.

Neil Henderson: 00:39:10

Gotcha.

Clint Harris: 00:39:10

Well, I'm gonna let Neil ask the last question. Before he does, I'm gonna ask my last follow up question. And this is. You got two podcasts.

I don't know how you find the time for all of this, but you got two different podcasts out here. You're also the author of I said this in the intro.

Want to make sure the, that the listeners know that they need to go read the seven Secrets of Eternal Wealth. That's a book that you have as well.

Besides those two podcasts, in terms of the way that you're educating and you're, you're sharing your knowledge and everything that you're picking up from these different sources, do you have a mastermind or anything like that? Or. Let me ask the question a different way.

What is the best way for people like me to stay engaged with you and hear what you, you're coming up with based upon what you're learning in the market.

Buck Joffrey: 00:39:52

I mean, pretty much. I mean, that's what my podcast is about, right?

Generally speaking, we don't talk, we, we certainly talk about personal finance strategies, but when it comes to macro, when it comes to what I'm thinking right now and you know, again, just with my podcast, again, it's, it's definitely not just, it's not just a real estate podcast, right? Definitely not. I mean, I think I've been talking more about bitcoin lately than I've been talking about real estate.

But I think if you like the idea of at least having opinions that I'm generating from the people I'm talking to, the podcast is by far and away the biggest way to do that.

Neil Henderson: 00:40:34

So this is a question we ask all of our guests. What is a book that you find yourself recommending again and again to friends and colleagues?

Buck Joffrey: 00:40:43

I think we'd probably go back to the cash flow quadrant.

I mean, like, you know, I think, I think for, especially if, if you are, you know, like you're a physician who was like me who had your face down in books and, you know, academia and stuff like that and really never considered all of these other things out there like tax beneficial investing, business ownership, things like that, it's a real eye opener. And you know, I think again, it's, it's, you read it, if you read it, it just seems so. It's written at such a basic level.

But you know, in talking to Robert Kiyosaki though, that book he wrote for high paid professionals, you know, because I told, when I told him that that was the book that got me into, you know, his stuff, he said, well, that makes sense because that's, I wrote it for you.

Clint Harris: 00:41:34

Yeah. His style is such an easy read. Like, that's why it resonates with fifth graders or people that are, you know, 95 years old.

It's, it, it just carries weight. So I love that we've probably had 40 or 50 people, if not more recommend Robert Kiyosaki. But it's, it's always rich dad, poor dad.

And I, for me, I've always got more value from cash flow quadrant. So I totally, that resonates with me. Listen, for the sake of time, we're going to wrap it up here. But this, I've loved this.

This has been a great interview. Dr. Buck Joffrey, I really appreciate your time and, and your, come on and share and educate. So thank you so much for that.

If any of our listeners want to connect with you, hear more about what you're up to, I think I know what the answer is going to be, but would you please tell us the best way that they can do that?

Buck Joffrey: 00:42:17

Well, there's a website called wealthformula.com you know, and, and there's some resources there. There's some things you can sign up for. Otherwise, it's the podcast. Wealth Formula Podcast.

Been around for a long time, probably continue to be around for a long time. So that's probably the best way.

Clint Harris: 00:42:36

Awesome. Thank you, Buck. We really appreciate your time. Thanks so much.

Neil Henderson: 00:42:38

Yeah, I enjoyed it a lot.

Buck Joffrey: 00:42:39

You bet. Take care.

Neil Henderson: 00:42:41

Thank you so much for listening and watching the Truly Passive Income podcast.

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