Fr. David takes the lead as he and Fr. Craig discuss the Ignatian spiritual exercises and their experience on the 30-day silent retreat that all seminarians attend.

(0:30) Fr. David takes the lead for this episode as him and Fr. Craig talk about the discernment of spirits with St. Ignatius of Loyola. Fr. David also shares updates from the past month, including that samples are back at Costco!

(3:35) Fr. David talks about experiencing Divine Child Homecoming for the first time with a parade, football game, and the decoration of his dad’s truck.

(6:15) Fr. Craig shares his joy of hosting the first Discernment Weekend at the seminary since the pandemic and the six men who attended. He explains the purpose of the event and details the schedule, which was recently updated. Fr. Craig highlights that there’s another Discernment Weekend coming up at the beginning of December.

(11:30) Fr. David transitions to discernment in the work of St. Ignatius, particularly his Spiritual Exercises. He also shares the fact that a parishioner at Divine Child painted (wrote) and presented him an icon of the holy saint, which sits on his desk. Fr. Craig mentions the importance of prayer in his past work creating art while he discerned the priesthood.

(15:00) Fr. Craig explains who St. Ignatius is and how his life as a warrior and military man and love for reading tales of knights in shining armor was suddenly upended by a serious injury. While in his bed recovering, the only books available were those on the lives of the saints. And he shares that while reading these books, St. Ignatius, slowly but surely, became a warrior for Christ in his own conversion.

(20:57) Fr. David introduces Fr. Timothy Gallagher’s Discernment of Spirits and its connection to Ignatian Spirituality while talking about the Spiritual Exercises of St. Ignatius. Both Fr. Craig and Fr. David explain how part of their seminarian formation included a 30-day silent retreat based on the Spiritual Exercises. They also delve deeper into the format of them and their experience on the retreat.

(31:50) Fr. David introduces the Suscipe (from the Latin word “receive or accept”) prayer, which St. Ignatius recommended at the end of the retreat. Fr. Craig shares how the Lord spoke to him through the retreat, particularly the grace of belonging to a band of brothers, the winning team for saving souls as faithful priests. Fr. David, on the other hand, talks about how the Lord spoke to him through a meditation on particular judgment and the role of the Blessed Virgin Mary.

(39:15) Fr. David talks about a few principles from the Spiritual Exercises about discerning or looking within at the heart: the thoughts, feelings, and desires. He focuses on consolation and desolation, according to the Rules of St. Ignatius. Both Fr. Craig and Fr. David explore moments of consolation and how they overcame times of desolation in their own lives.

(50:20) Fr. David offers some tips from St. Ignatius for those who find themselves in moments of desolation. He emphasizes that times of desolation are a reminder that the graces of consolation are God’s grace, not something we can earn.

(55:20) Fr. David concludes with a prayer by St. Ignatius for desolation, and Fr. Craig thanks him for leading the discernment of spirits and talking about St. Ignatius.

Father David Pellican: Welcome to Men of the Hearts, a monthly podcast from the Archdiocese of Detroit office of priestly vocations. Join me, your host father, David Pelican,

Father Craig Giera: And me your host, Father Craig Giera.

Father Pellican: As we explore the priesthood, you're vocation stories from priests all over the archdiocese and answer questions about discerning a priestly vocation. Tune in every month to wherever you get your podcasts, learn more at detroitpriestlyvocations.com.

Well, it's good to be with you all. It's going to be with you, Father Craig. I don't know. I feel odd giving the intro here. I don't know what's going on?

Father Giera: It's the Father David show today. So you are still listening to Men of the Hearts. Yes, but Father David's going to take the lead today. He's going to be our pilot, our captain. We're going to be talking about the sermon, a spirits with St. Ignatius and a number of things about his life. But of course, Father David, before we begin, we always talk about what's going on and you know what? We didn't talk about it last episode, we didn't talk about anything on Costco. Wow.

Father Pellican: That is, that is, that is quite the oversight, Father Craig.

Father Giera: If I'm correct here, we didn't talk it. I think we were so excited to have the brothers here, Father Drew and Father Zack, maybe that we just, we didn't talk about it. So what's going on over there?

Father Pellican: A glaring omission, and there's big news from Costco this week. Big news really well, not this week, but since we talked about it last, because the samples are back Father Craig. The samples are back. One of the main reasons that I would go to Costco on Saturday mornings for those samples. And if you remember during the pandemic, unfortunately we had to say goodbye to the samples for a little while, but they are back and you can do more than just smell them and see them. You can now taste the goodness of Costco samples.

Father Giera: So it makes me think of if anybody watches, parks and recreation, where it, Ron Swanson goes to the vegan place and he says, do you want to try a sample of our vegan bacon? And he's like, yes, please. And he takes it and he throws it in the garbage he's like, may I have another one throws it in the garbage? And then April takes it and throws it in the garbage.

Father Pellican: I know the clip you're referring to, but we would never do that with Costco samples because I don't think they sample vegan bacon at Costco.

Father Giera: I mean, what's your favorite sample that you've ever gotten?

Father Pellican: Oh my goodness. That is a loaded question. I don't know, but I will say this, those those cheese wisps or crisps, whatever you call them that I'm so fond of. I first tried those as samples at Costco. That's what got me hooked. So I guess it works.

Father Giera: Do you want to hear a confession from me?

Father Pellican: Yes, please.

Father Giera: I have never ever had a sample at Costco ever. I just walk right past the people. I don't smile. I don't. They say hello, sir. Would you like to try and to just keep on walking.

Father Pellican: So they say they're free samples, but, but there is a price you have to pay when you have the samples, you do have to listen to their little, their little pitch for that product. It's a, trade-off, you know, in my mind fully worth a little bit of time, but yeah.

Father Giera: Have there any been blessings in your life? What's been going on since we talked last?

Father Pellican: Lot's been going on actually Divine Child is a, it's a busy parish to be at one really a cool experience. A lot of blessings was I got to experience a Divine Child homecoming for the first time. Last year, we didn't really do homecoming for a parade and I was homeschooled. So there's not much of a homecoming when you're homeschooling.

Father Giera: When you went to homecoming, did you take your mom to homecoming?

Father Pellican: I live at my home and my school. I don't know what that would mean for a homeschooler.

Father Giera: Yeah, that'd be weird.

Father Pellican: So this was my first homecoming and it was, it was quite the to-do. It was, it was a lot of fun. My car got decorated as a float, so that was fun. Actually. It was my dad's truck. And I had a little homecoming parade and you know, of course the football game and it was the fullest I'd ever seen the stadium. So it was, it was a lot of fun, very exciting. We won the homecoming game, which was nice. And it was probably the biggest crowd, like community event I've ever seen at DC. And you could just, you could feel just the real familial spirit of of everyone there.

Father Giera: Yeah, it sounds really great. And it's, it's funny that, you know, your, your dad's truck was in the driveway. And I was wondering why I couldn't park my truck in, in the, in the garage. Finally, I had to ask you whether or not you were going to take the truck home so I could park in the garage.

Father Pellican: It was a process. You know, it was actually funny story about that truck. It's my dad's old work truck. We live on a dirt road, so I got it for, I traded my car for that cause I figured it'd be better. You know, you can do anything to that thing. Doesn't matter.

Father Giera: Should we mentioned about Father John's car cause you didn't see it on your, on your dad's truck, but Father John's car had tape everywhere.

Father Pellican: It had tape all over, you know, which you know, father John's car was very clean before the float building. My dad's car was not as a matter of fact the seniors who decorated my dad's car, washed it before they started decorating it because it was so dirty. It looked better when I returned it. It was the cleanest that, that old trucks ever been that's so, yes, but that was, that was a blessing for me, just seeing everyone coming together for homecoming. How about you, Father Craig?

Father Giera: And not to mention how dirty your car came when you got your car back from the dirt road. Cause you have, you have many of sisters and they had like wash me on the back of your window and everything like that.

Father Pellican: I feel the love for my sisters, you know? No that's, every time I visit home, I come back with a fine coating of dust on the back of the Focus. So yes, yes. How about you Father Craig?

Father Giera: Well, you know, what was really great for me is I got to, for the first time here at sacred heart, since the pandemic is we got to do a discernment weekend. So we had six guys come to the seminary and live with the seminarians for a whole weekend, which was great. You know, you really get to kind of see what seminary life would be like. Now of course, none of us are called to just be in seminary at life. We're called to the priesthood. But I mean, it's one step that you need to be taking. And I think, you know, we asked these questions from the Lord, like, Lord, do you want me to be a priest? And I think that's just sometimes too large of a question. It should be like, Lord, what do you want me to do next? Give me the light of where I should go or what I should be doing. And just discernment weekend is a great way to get that light because if you enjoy that discernment weekend, you could see yourself living with the seminarians. Then that's a great indicator that, Hey, the Lord might be calling you to the priesthood and that this is a great time to discern and to be a part of that. So we did a lot.

Father Pellican: And if, if if I could just say that was exactly what it did for me. I know when I went onto the discernment weekend, I could suddenly, I don't know I could, it was a great experience and I could see myself living that life. I couldn't visualize it beforehand. And I could say, I could, I can do this. You know, so, but I hear I hear you might have tweaked the schedule a little bit. What what did you guys do?

Father Giera: We did a lot. I think it was really great. We also had Father Bryan Kassa, who was with us from the Chaldean Eparchy, you know, we, he was on our podcast a couple episodes ago, so he was helping out as well. We just had a lot of stuff going on. So the guys arrived on Thursday night, you know, and we kind of did a welcome for them. But then we watched a quick video because we went to holy hour with all the seminarians, which is a preached holy hour from one of the faculty. And it gives some time to spend in prayer. And then afterwards they had hops hospitality and one of the recreation rooms and, you know, you could be playing pool or ping pong or just watch TV. And they got the chance to talk to the seminarians. In fact, the college side, they have this that I just found out last week, each floor starts to compete for different points. And at the end of the year, you get this trophy with a giraffe on, it makes no sense whatsoever, but that night was actually the the competition of doubles, ping pong. So we got to watch that a little bit. Yeah, it was really cool. They were really into it. Then we did night prayer with them and then Friday was just really busy. You know, we had morning mass and prayer with the seminarians. The discerners got to go to seminary class with the seminarians. So you could see what a seminary class would be like. We took a tour then we did some free time, but free time with spiritual direction or confession if they wanted to the seminarians were playing ultimate Frisbee so they can join in with that.

Oh, we did another video and another holy hour. And then what we did is we took them out to dinner with a number of different seminarians. So we could just kind of get out of the environment a little bit and have have some time to speak a little bit more. And then we came back and watched Life is Beautiful. One of St. John Paul, the second's favorite movies and just that beautiful image of what a father does for his child. If you've never seen that movie, it is subtitles. Although they do have a version that translates it. Unfortunately I couldn't find that version, but life is beautiful. It's a great movie. It really shows how a father sacrifices for his child. And I just want it to look at that for spiritual fatherhood. So we did that.

And then Saturday we had a very busy day. Again, we talked to a number of the formulators to talk about the different dimensions of, of seminary life, spiritual, intellectual, human, pastoral. We went to lunch and then Archbishop Vigneron came out and talked to us, gave us about an hour, talk about discerning and, and what that means for our lives. And then we went over to the Solanus Casey Center and had a tour and got some time to pray by his you know, by his remains and got they gave us a third class Relic as well, came back to dinner in a holy hour had some question and answers, and then we had a pizza party. And then on Sunday morning you know, we got again to do more solemn morning prayer and mass with the, with the seminary, the rector came and talked to the discerners and that was it.

It went by really fast, but it wasn't a full couple days. One of the guys said I didn't want to leave, you know, I want it to kind of continue on. It seemed like it was really short and so it was good to be a part of that and to see it and everything went really well. And yeah, if you're thinking about, you know, whether or not you're called to the priesthood, we do have another discernment weekend coming up at the very beginning of December. So you might want to take a look on our website again, Detroitpriestlyvocations.com. It's in December. You want to ask your boss for time off or make sure you have your paper done if you're still in school so that you can come for those four days, it's really, really a great time to discern and to be with the seminarians. Yes,

Father Pellican: Absolutely. Yeah. Well, well, speaking of, of discernment Father Craig. St. Ignatius talks a lot about discernment in his in his work. And especially in sort of some of the stuff he writes around the spirit.

Father Giera: Father David, there's something on the table here. I don't know what is this? You want to tell our listeners here?

Father Pellican: Yes, there's, there's on the table that you can not see because this is a podcast, but we can paint a visual image for you here. So so this is an icon of Saint Ignatius of Loyola. And it was painted, although technically we don't say painted with icons, we say written because icons there's a particular way of, of constructing them of, of, of writing them. That includes prayers. So that as you're, as you're writing the icon, you have these prayers that you say along with it. Anyways, this icon was written by one of our parishioners at divine child.

Apparently I talk about St. Ignatius of Loyola a lot. He is, he is definitely one of my favorite saints. And I guess I was mentioning him a lot in homilies because a couple months ago someone gave me a little postcard of St. Ignatius. They're like, oh, I thought you would like this. And then this lady, one of the parishioners who's who are the faithful 6:30 mass goers in the morning, she came up and she was like, you know, I've been praying about this. And I would like to give you an icon of Saint Ignatius of Loyola. So she did, and it is, it is a beautiful icon. It sits on my desk most days as I'm working. So yes, we are. He is joining us in icon form today.

Father Giera: It's interesting too. Cause you say you wrote an icon and when people find out that I'm an artist, they say, oh, do you do icons? And I really don't. But it's funny is that when I do make artwork, I am praying the whole time. And I found that when I was discerning the priesthood, it's when I was making artwork to apply to graduate school. And now it's, it's almost, if it is, if the Lord has been calling me back to kind of this first love, it's these things that we do to be called by the Lord, we sometimes give up in the midst of whatever we're doing in life. And I think the Lord really wants me to make more artwork and lately, because of the iPad and I've been doing things with the pencil and everything like that, that I've been praying again while making art before the Lord in the sacrament. And some people say, yeah, you can't do that. And I'm like, yeah, you can pray how you want. And this is, this is how the Lord has spoken to me. Always, you know, so I I've been doing it. It's been very fruitful. So I sorta write Icons. I just make art with the Lord.

Father Giera: I'm horrible with history. So don't ask me, this is the Father David show on the sermon spirits by Saint Ignatius. Did you prepare enough? Of course you prepared enough.

Father Pellican: I do have an outlet. I'm not just flying by the seat of my pants here.

Father Giera: I know you're not going. I know you're not, but I know it's my turn to talk a little bit about his life and how the sermon of spirits came about for him.

Father Pellican: Could you tell us about that?

Father Giera: The guy was a warrior. He was, he was, he fought, he was a military man and, and he loved reading books on Knights in shining armor and all of that type of stuff. And when he was not out fighting, he was doing that. And what happened, he was out there doing stuff and he got hit by a Cannon ball on the link. He didn't die. Of course. But he was laid up in a castle and he wanted to pass the time. And he asked the people at the castle, you know, give me some of these books that I really enjoy reading. And so I had to pass the time and they didn't have any of those books. The only books that they had were lives of the saints. And I think either the Bible or Imitation of Christ, I think it was the imitation.

Father Pellican: I think you're right. It was, it was, it was a book on Christ. So yeah.

Father Giera: So he's sitting there and reading it. And that's when he came to this idea that not only when he was reading these books about the lives of the saints, it made him feel good while he was reading them, you know, but then even after he put those books down, he still felt good. He's like I could live my life like a St. Francis, or I could live my life like a Saint Dominic, or I can grow in these particular virtues. It's it, it just made him feel good. And then he reflect back when he read the books that were about Knights in shining armor. He said, when I read those books, I felt good. I felt on fire. But as soon as I put the book down, I felt empty. I felt it didn't do anything for me. I almost felt like I lost something in a sentence.

And it was interesting that this is where the kind of discernment spirit started for him, that he recognized that wanting a holier life, doing these types of things was a great way of knowing that this was what the Lord wanted for his life or, or, or because it felt good for him. It was a consolation. We will talk about consolation and desolation and which I can, I can relate to because when I started to discern the priesthood, I started reading like books by Christian authors, like CS Lewis, the space trilogy, the Narnia series. I read Saint Faustina, St. Anthony Mary Claret, which is a saint that a lot of people don't know who was an artist as well. And as I was reading these books, I too felt good. I wanted to be holier. I wanted to be better. And, and it helped me figure out where the Lord was calling me. So, yeah, I think he was on to something.

Father Pellican: Absolutely. Yeah. You know, you said Father Craig, that he was, he was a warrior. And and that was, that was really, it defined his life. Right. And in a sense, it, it almost he didn't stop being a warrior after this conversion that you're talking about. But he, he became like a warrior for Christ. Right. And that, that that language carries over into so much of what he talks about when he's talking about kind of discerning these different voices. He doesn't just talk about like the devil's voice. He calls him the enemy, you know, and it's like, yeah, he's a soldier. And even just like the whole idea that the title, spiritual exercises, like I got to believe when he's talking about his spiritual exercises, he's, he's thinking of kind of like, you know, military exercises where they go out on the field and kind of prepare for that.

Father Giera: You have to have a plan. If the plan gets deviated from, you know, there could be horrible things that happen. So he created a new plan through the exercises. Yes.

Father Pellican: So it was, it was, as you said, it was a great grace that he got taken out at the knees by a cannon ball. Because it laid him up and in the end he had to do this discerning. How we know about St. Ignatius is actually through his own autobiography where he would dictate stuff to one of his one of his confreres and he would write them down. So we have pretty accurate information. And one of the things that has struck me about this autobiography, one of the things that priest scholar, Father Timothy Gallagher talks about is that he describes that moment of spiritual awakening. As my eyes were opened a little, right. And after his eyes were opened a little, he was able to see this difference. You were talking about the difference between these thoughts of kind of like earthly valor and, you know, being this Knight in shining armor versus being a Saint, you know, and his eyes were open a little and he was able to see the difference, right? Like you said they both were kind of inspiring to him at the time. One left him a little unfulfilled, the other, even when he was after he thought about, he still thought, you know, it was still that consolation, if you will remains. So,

Father Giera: That looks, I mean, in our lives, we'll explain it a little bit more, but we can be pursuing good things within this world and we can get that house or we can get that car. There's nothing wrong with having a nice car or a nice house, but we might want more. And then my Lord might be calling us to more. And what is that? But to be a Saint through our vocation, of course.

Father Pellican: That's right. Always through our vocation, which needs to be discerned. Good. One other figure out or person I'd like to introduce a little bit, just because a lot of what we're going to talk about today, I get from him is Father Timothy, Gallagher. Yeah. I just mentioned him. Let me tell you who this is do. Now. I know this is a podcast, but I, so you can't see what I'm holding up, but it's another book it's called the Discernment of Spirits. And it's by father Timothy Gallagher is an oblate of the Virgin Mary. So interestingly enough, he's, he's one of the foremost experts today, at least in the English speaking world on St. Ignatius is a spiritual writings such,uhe's not actually a Jesuit though. He's an oblate of the Virgin Mary.

And this, this book as has impacted my life, my discernment quite a bit. I also Father Timothy Gallagher, when we went as seminarians to IPF, the Institute for priestly formation, which is a summer program out in Omaha, Nebraska when we went there, we, we, we went to a series of talks by him, right. And so we, we got to hear a little bit kind of firsthand from him about St. Ignatius and his writings. And it was, it was very helpful when I didn't fall asleep he, he's a very peaceful man and he kind of talks just very, very quietly, you know, not a lot of fluctuation in his voice and you can just drift right off to sleep. But, but great content, which is what kept us awake for the most part, I think. So anyways, I just wanted to mention him, it's a great book.

It's very accessible. He goes through St. Ignatius rules with lots of like concrete examples from life. Like, all right, we're talking about whatever it might be spiritual consolation and desolation. Here's what it looked like in someone's life. You know, here's what this looked like, you know helped her really concretize it and help me to say like, oh, this is what it looks like in my life. So it's, it will be drawn on him a little bit later on one of the things St. Ignatius is known for, especially his, his, his spiritual exercises. Now,Father Craig, have you been on the spiritual exercises?

Father Giera: I have. Well, it's part of the seminary program now for us, we do the 30 day silent retreat. The Ignation exercises, someone who's trained in it, cause it's not easy to do. I remember my second year as a [inaudible], it would be my maybe third year as a priest. Someone was like, Hey, can you do the 30 day exercises for me, lead me in it. And at first I thought, well, yeah, I could do it. And I started looking everything over and out. Like I called them up immediately. No, I can't do this. This, this is a lot to take on. So, but it was a wonderful experience.

Father Pellican: Yeah. Likewise for me as well. It is like Father Craig said, it's 30 days of silence, which can be difficult. Right.

Father Giera: There's one day off.

Father Pellican: Yes, yes, you're right. There's, there's a day, a day or two off. Yeah.

Father Giera: And then you do talk to your spiritual director every single day.

Father Pellican: That's true. You talk to your spiritual director every day, which is very important and you talk to Jesus quite a bit.

Father Giera: But I mean, the way the place that we go is, was in the middle of nowhere, the weather didn't change, nothing changed.

Father Pellican: Go to Timbuktu then keep going, you know, it's yeah. It was middle of South Dakota nothing around, but cornfields and cattle farms. It was, it was certainly getting away, getting away from the real, the, the busy-ness of life. Yeah.

I thought maybe Father Craig, we could just talk a little bit about the format of those those spiritual exercises and then maybe share a little bit about what that was like for us. I was always struck and one of the first things we meditate on and it really sets the tone for the spiritual exercises is what Saint Ignatius calls the principle and foundation. And it might, it might sound obvious, might not, but he says this, he says the human person is created to praise, reverence and serve God, our Lord. And by doing so to save his or her, her soul, all other things on the face of the earth are created for human beings in order to help them pursue the end for which they are created.

And then he goes on, therefore persons must make use of them in so far as they help in the attainment of their end and rid themselves of them in as far as they prove a hindrance to them. I think that's, it's just, maybe you've heard stuff like that before, but this whole idea that everything in our life is supposed to be oriented first towards the glory of God. Like even before our own salvation, right. Sometimes we think the spiritual life is all about just getting to heaven. Right. And that's important. But like, even before that, that thought to have like, I want my life to give glory to God. And that really does set the tone for some of the, you might say like radical, just surrender to God abandonment of, of myself and my own desires or, or letting those become kind of secondary to the Lord and his will that's really kind of the focus and the purpose of, of the spiritual exercises.

Father Giera: God has to be first. Yes. The Jesuits say that for the greater glory of God.

Father Pellican: Yes, yes. Sometimes you see A.M.D.G on stuff, a Jesuit stuff. And that stands for Ad Majorem Dei Gloriam, which is Latin for, for the greater glory of God.

Father Giera: Yeah. Sometimes I preach on it and you'd like to think that, you know, family is so important in our lives and families should come first, but God should come first. If we want to love our family more, we need to love God more and God will give us the grace to love our family more. So we need to have the right ordering of things. And I believe we do get into that with the spiritual exercises as well.

Father Pellican: Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. So spiritual exercises they're split up into four weeks, quote, quote, they're not actually a week, it's just four sections.

Father Giera: And some people can spend longer in those weeks, depending on where you are.

Father Pellican: It's very, it's very fluid, but it's kind of just the general structure of how, how kind of things, things progress. But yeah, it can be tweaked. I know I didn't necessarily follow or do all the meditations that are, you know, given there. There's some freedom in that for where you're at with the Lord. I mean, nobody's journey ever looks quite the same. So yeah. Actually our, our retreat started out with just some beautiful meditations on the love of God, which I don't know if it was directly Ignatius, but just a good way to start any retreat. Right. Putting yourself in his presence, remembering his, his love and care for you. And then you launch into what my classmates and I call hell week. So something like I guess what the, what the Navy seals go through, but a little different spiritually speaking, it's actually meditating on stuff like sin, hell and these kinds of things. Pretty like heavy stuff. I was talking at the end of the retreat actually to one of one of the just grounds crew there. And he's like, yeah, I can always tell when guys are getting into hell week there, they look a little frazzled. And so it's some intense meditations but good ones. Right? it's, it's, it's just looking at the reality of how much I need God. Right. And what life would be like without him.

Father Giera: So many people don't want to think about those types of things at all, and they just push it out. And this is why the 30 day silent retreat is so good because you can't hide. You know, I brought, I brought Bible commentaries, I brought my artwork, I brought a fishing pole and my director was like, you can't do any of those. In fact, you're not even allowed to read the Bible. I'm going to give you five passages every day. And that's the only thing you're going to focus on because I do not want you distracted. Yes. And so much of this world is a distraction. So we don't think about these things that are so incredibly important to us. That's true.

Father Pellican: No, that's very true. And in 30 days of silence, you got, you have plenty of time. Right. You run out of all the distractions you got for yourself pretty quick. And then there's, then there's the Lord. Right. So good. So, so that's, that's kind of towards the beginning you go through kind of these, these heavier realities and you realize like, I need God. Right. And, and then it goes through kind of Christ's life. So you think about the incarnation all the way to Palm Sunday is the second week. And then he also puts interspersed throughout these other meditation's one, which really struck me as that. And you might've heard of it before, but the two standards, right. It's where you picture just like here's Christ with his army of all the saints on one side. And here's the enemy, right. The evil one and all of the evil spirits on the other side. And there's, there's a battle, right? I mean, Saint Ignatius is, he's a soldier. So he sees it in terms of a battle. And the question is who you're going to serve, you know, are you going to be with the Lord and all the angels and saints, or are you going to be on the other team? You know? And, and in that, of course we know who wins, right. The question is, are you going to be on the winning team?

Father Giera: it makes me think of, I just watched all the extended versions of Lord of the Rings again, not, not in one day, although I did that once with a friend and yeah.

Father Pellican: That's an intense day.

Father Giera: Yeah. You know, you're at the black gate, you know, what, what side are you on there?

Father Pellican: Yes, yes, exactly. So you kind of walk through that, then you walk through just like the Last Supper through the Crucifixion. So you really you're walking through the Lord's life. Right. that's kind of that third week, their last supper to crucifixion. And this was really powerful for me. I don't know how it matched up for you, Father Craig, but we did this right after our trip to the Holy Land. So we're meditating, we're meditating on all of these events from Christ's life. And we can go back to a month before and you're like, I was there. I know what this looks like. You know? It just, it just made it so much more real for me. Yeah, I think they do that intentionally. They know what they're doing. So you walk through that and then the fourth week is just the resurrection, you know, and there's a contemplation in there contemplation to attain the love of God.

And this is really where all this is directed. Right. That, that to to just experience, to know God's love for you, right. You know, his need, you know, the lengths he went to to kind of become incarnate, to save us from our sins. And then you arrive at this point and you're just, just to know, God's love for you. A beautiful thing. Father Craig, are you familiar with the [inaudible] prayer of St. Ignatius? You're not? Well, this is, this is where it comes into play. It's a, it's a prayer that St. Ignatius recommends you can pray towards the end of this retreat. And it's, I don't know, to me, it's kind of a scary prayer because it's like, we talked about like living for the glory of God, that means kind of your life isn't your own anymore. And this prayer is an expression of that that you just giving it all to the Lord. So I'll, I'll read it to you. And this is a prayer. Like if you really pray this prayer and you think about what you're saying is kind of radical, you know? But that was St. Ignatius, a radical dude.

Father Giera: Yeah. It seems like, yeah. All for or all against right.

Father Pellican: No middle ground. Yeah. Yep. So this is the [inaudbile] of St. Ignatius g like this.

Father Giera: What does [inaudbile] mean?

Father Pellican: Uh it just means take or receive or accept, right. Which is the first word of the prayer. So it's receive, oh Lord, all my Liberty, take my memory, my understanding, and my entire will, whatever I have or hold you have given to me, I give it all back to you and surrender it wholly to be governed by your will. Give me only your grace and your love having but these, I am rich enough and ask for nothing more. So it's just this, everything I have, I've got from the Lord, you know, my Liberty, right. My freedom. I give it to the Lord, my, my memory itself. And I don't ask for anything in return, right. That I think that was the line that struck me when I, when I see this and still strikes me as, like, the only thing I'm asking in return is for your grace and love. Yeah. That's, that's an intense prayer. Yeah. You know,

Father Giera: It's almost freeing though, when it sounds too. I don't need to list everything I need from the Lord. I just put it in the Lord's hands.

Father Pellican: Yeah. If you're with me, that's all I need.

Father Giera: Now. I've done something similar to this. Although I did the consecration to the Blessed Virgin Mary. So it's just one step of saying, okay, I'm going to do this through the Blessed Virgin Mary and not through myself.

Father Pellican: Absolutely. Yeah. So that's, that's a little bit of how the, how the 30 day goes Father Craig, I know you already shared a little bit about you know, coming into it, thinking you're going to do all this reading and such were there any any experiences or anything you'd care to share that really kind of impacted you? Any ways the Lord spoke to you through that time?

Father Giera: Yeah. I mean, there were a number of things it's hard to kind of explain it fully because when, when you slow down like that things become a little bit more real. I mean. To think that, you know, to go get a cup of tea was a big event. It's like, yeah, I'm going to go downstairs and grab a tea. Maybe it's going to be chia tea, or maybe it's gonna be English breakfast and maybe I'll put some honey in it and we'll let it steep. This is like a big event. So I mean, things really slow down and you really get to think about like all these different details that you normally don't think about.

Father Pellican: And you notice so much more, notice so much more both without and within.

Father Giera: And there was this one time, which is interesting because part of the 30 day silent retreat is when you get to one of the weeks. And I don't remember which cause you're supposed to spend five times in prayer with the Lord five holy hours. And if you wake up in the middle of the night, you're supposed to pray one. And I wake up in the middle of the night, every night. So I just knew I was going to pray one. And there was one night where I went up into the chapel and I'm praying and you know, a couple other guys came in and I just thought it was really beautiful. The Lord showed me that, that I have brothers who are on this journey with me, who want to become holy, want to be a holy priest, want to help save souls. And it just made me feel, not only like I belonged, but I belong to the winning team because I never felt that before. And that sense of belonging and belonging to the winning team was really, really powerful. And I really liked that. And I remember we share graces at the end of the retreat. And as I was explaining this to the group that I was a part of, one of the guys was like, I hated that. You know, I was there that night and I hated it. I wanted to be alone. And all you guys were here, so the Lord works with what we need and what we don't need.

Father Pellican: Absolutely. That's awesome. I I remember, I mean the whole, the whole experience, like you say, it's, it's hard to almost describe it sometimes. I feel like I can describe it better now being a couple years out than I could have at the end of it. But I, I really do. I felt in so many ways, the Lord he was just asking me like, let me lead you, right. Let me save you, let me die for you. You know, you don't have to kind of save yourself in a sense that was probably the grace in a nutshell where a couple of prayer periods in particular that still stick with me. One of those was actually from that that hell week. And it was, it was a meditation and the meditation was pretty stark. It was to imagine that you have not lived a good life.

You're standing before the Lord. And you know, it's, it's, it's judgment time, you know, and of course my spiritual director recommended that I do this in the middle of the night. So I did that. It was, it was a very intense meditation, but then I got to spiritual direction. The next morning I was kinda like, this was horrible. I never want to go to hell. And he goes, okay, I want you to do the same meditation tonight, but do it as a priest. And that was, that was I was just, I'll never forget that. And so a lot of Ignation prayers using your imagination, right? So I'm imagining myself as like a priest who, you know, just didn't live a real faithful life. And there I am before God, you know, and it's, it's the end of my life. And I just, I just remember looking at the, seeing the blessed mother and this wasn't something like I was trying to imagine it, but I remember seeing the blessed mother right there behind Jesus and she just looked very sad. Right. I was like, man, as a priest she should've been the one to like welcome me into heaven. And, and I was just like, I think that that formed my priest is like, I never want to do anything that would disappoint the blessed mother. Yeah. You know? So yeah, that's a big grace. That's, that's stuck with me till today from the 30 day. You know

Father Giera: I think when we get into these things where it's, you know, you're looking at your life and you're looking at your heart and you're looking at your fears, you know, I think at least for me, I'm more melancholy and stuff like that. Worst case scenario. Right. But we don't think about the good things and what it means if, if the Lord, if we rely on the Lord for that grace and what we need and what we don't need, and that there are some very beautiful things that when we delve into our spiritual lives more, it doesn't mean that, you know, it's going to be hard. Of course. Yeah. But it's, it doesn't mean that it's gonna end bad. It can end really good, too.

Father Pellican: Yes. Amen. Amen. Absolutely. Well, I'd love to talk a little bit with you, just a few principles that St. Ignatius gives they're from these spiritual exercises, these, these rules that he has for discerning, and it's talking Father Craig, just about some of the things that you have mentioned looking inwards, right? Looking at the heart, the fears that are there, also the desires. We talk about looking at our, our thoughts, feelings, and desires as a way that God can speak to us, right. There's a way that God or the enemy could speak to us. And that's what I'd like to maybe just focus on for a little bit here. Their practical advice for understanding and responding to the various movements of our heart. And especially for dealing with and overcoming what he's going to call desolation. Right? So discouragement, fear, anxiety, those kinds of things.

A lot of times we ask like, how does God speak to us? Right. We're waiting for a booming voice. Often it's not that, it's more silent. It's in the heart. It's these thoughts, feelings, and desires. And so St. Ignatious really wants us to be able to look and say, which of these are the voice of God, which of these are coming from God or from a good place, which of these are coming from a bad place or from the enemy. Right? So he calls these rules. He calls a rules for doing three things, becoming aware, understanding to some extent, the different movements, which are caused in the soul and then taking action, right. A good to receive them; the bad to reject them. Right. And that's kind of, that's what he, that's, that's just, that's, that's the task, the task of discernment of spirits for him. So we become aware how, by taking that time of quiet prayer, right. It's especially in silence, right? Like a 30 day silent retreat, or even just, you know, 15 minutes, a holy hour, each day, you know, of quiet time to look within, to say, is God speaking?

Father Giera: That's so important. Especially if you're a man out there discerning the priesthood, there has to be times where you're silent and just speaking to the Lord. It means putting your phone away being just alone with the Lord and just talking to him as you're talking to a friend or somebody to hear him and what he has to say back.

Father Pellican: Yes, yes, absolutely. And so to do that as soon as she talks about consolation and desolation. Consolation is more or less going to be any of, kind of the good uplifting feelings that we have. Desolation are kind of the darker ones or stuff that, that take us away from the Lord or can seem like they're doing that. I'd like to, if you don't mind, Father Craig read a little bit from the rules themselves of just St. Ignatius own description of consolation and desolation. So it gives us a good example. We can think about like, have I seen this in my life? Right? So he says, I call consolation. Some inner movement caused in the soul through which the soul becomes inflamed with the love of its creator and Lord. Consequently, you can love no created thing on the face of the earth for itself, but only in the creator goes on.

Likewise, it's when perhaps you shed tears to love from love of the Lord or sorrow one sins for the passion of Christ or because other things are directly ordered to his service in praise. And this is where I think it really hits home for me. Finally, I call consolation every increase of faith, hope and charity and all interior joy that calls and attracts us to heavenly things to the salvation of one's soul. So this is, this is a time when it's easy to pray, you know, God's close to you. You feel like you want to do great things in his service, right? That's consolation, right. Desolation is going to be the exact opposite. He says, I call desolation the contrary of consolation, darkness of soul disturbance movement to low and earthly things disquiet from agitations and temptations, moving to lack of confidence, without hope, without love finding one's self totally slothful, tepid, sad, and as if separated from one's creator and Lord. Sometimes you feel like that, right? Like where's God, I'm sad. I feel separated from him. And you know, I just, I don't want to pray. I'm, slothful tepid sad, discouraged. Right. And, and the big key insight that St. Ignatius has is in times of consolation, it's generally the good spirit or God, you know, or an angel speaking, right. Through those thoughts, feelings and desire in times of desolation, it's generally the enemy as he calls him speaking. Right. And so, so when we look at kind of the thoughts, feelings, and desires that arise from consolation, we can say all those are of God. We look at the thoughts, feelings, and desires that arise from desolation. We could say, no, those are from the enemy. So it's helpful. That's that first step of just becoming aware, right? There's a difference between just saying like I'm in desolation versus I'm kind of like looking at myself in desolation, right. It to become aware like I'm in desolation. That means this feeling of discouragement. It's not something I should listen to. You know, I dunno if this Father, Craig, if you can think of any times in your, where you've you felt one of these or maybe been able to overcome a desolation or something like that. Think of a few in my life.

Father Giera: Yeah. I can think of a couple. I mean, for consolation, I remember, you know, I, I've kind of explained it a little bit before in the past. I was not a, not a good person. And there were a lot of difficulties within my life. And there was a lot of hatred and anger in my life as well. And again, one Christmas is when the Lord was calling me back to him and I just got so incredibly sick, but I knew the Lord was calling me back to him and the Lord did this amazing thing that while I was sick and I remember laying in bed for like three days, like it was like the flu times 10 type thing, where it felt like the Lord was working on me and taking just junk out of my soul, reworking me and it hurt.

But at the same time, I didn't want it to stop. I knew that God was recreating me in that particular moment. And it was such, even though I was going through was painful in a sense, but it was beautiful at the same time. And I knew it was God in my life was different from that moment on, I mean, that was a huge turning point and that a lot of the anger, especially that hate and hate that I had, I had such a vehement hate for a lot of people in a lot of things. And maybe even for God as well, and that was gone, that was taken out of me. And that was certainly was a great consolation. I knew it. And for the next couple months, as I was making this movement towards God of maybe not hanging out with certain friends anymore, changing the music that I listened to going back to school in a different way, you know, it, it, yeah, it was there and I felt it.

And then that started to go away. But I knew I was on the right path now. Now you want to talk about a desolation? No, it was from the devil to his, because I was feeling good. I knew what I wanted to do. I was talking to the Lord, I had this great time of just being away with him and him calling me like to join the seminary and to ask for an application as I was in contact with the vocation director. And I finally asked for that application and immediately when I got that application that night, this overwhelming fear came over me that every sin that I've ever committed in some horrible things, too, that I forgot that I did actually, that I probably drowned out because I didn't want it in my life. All of that came very vividly in my mind.

And I felt like I was going to hell. Yeah. Like, not only can I not be a priest, but you're going to hell. And there's no hope for you. And I, I like what you said when you were reading what desolation is. There's no hope. I felt like there was no hope. And in fact, I couldn't speak for a while. I remember going to work. I was doing catering at that time. And people were like, what's wrong with you? Like, yeah. Cause I really couldn't speak. I was almost catatonic because I was so incredibly afraid. Now imagine that like, if I'm in desolation like that, like I'm going to like give the application back. Like the only thing that brought me comfort is I had a glow in the dark rosary. I love glow in the dark rosaries. I still have glow in the dark rosaries. I love glow in the dark rosaries. I got some good stories about it as well, but I prayed the rosary. And that was the only thing that brough me hope and brought me peace. And then slowly that went away because it was the blessing mother who pushed the devil away. And I was able to see clearly. It didn't take away the things that I did wrong. The Lord wanted to heal me from those types of things. But I got to see myself again as a beloved child of God. And that there's always hope no matter where you're at in life, there's always hope.

Father Pellican: That's, that's beautiful. And, and I think that's really getting at the heart of this, that those, those thoughts, those feelings, those desires you were having in the midst of that desolation, right? What were they? They were, you could never be a priest. And I think any, any priest in the discernment process at some point has heard these, right? You can't be a priest. You're you're too much of a sinner. You're not worthy for this. You know, God wouldn't choose you. Right. And so looking at those thoughts, the feelings that go around them, if you're, if you're keeping in mind this consolation and desolation principle, you can say just by the tone with which those thoughts and feelings come, you can say those are not of God. Right?

Absolutely. When you're going through it, it seems like it's just, you know, that's all there is. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So, so a big part of, of the process of discernment is trying to become more and more aware of those movements. Right? As you said, you become aware, understand where they're coming from, the good to accept them the bad to reject them. Right. Yeah. That's beautiful. I think of a similar, you know, in my own vocation story, just a moment when I finally told the Lord, okay, Lord, you know, I I'll be a priest. You know, if that's what you're calling me for too, I'll do that. And I just, I felt this peace in that moment. Right. It it was the opposite of desolation. It was consolation. Right. And that was a confirmation for me that like, I'm on the right track, you know, I'm, I'm responding to the Lord's voice.

Father Giera: Cause you still have eight more years to figure that out.

Father Pellican: Very true.

Father Giera: Which is a good thing for our listeners to think about. If you're discerning the priesthood, like you got a lot of time to discern, you just need to know what's next and to say yes to what's next.

Father Pellican: Yeah, absolutely good. Well, Father Craig, I'd just like to share a few things that we can do. If you might find yourself in a, in a spot where you say like, okay, I am in a place of desolation right now. Right. I've become aware enough to realize like this there's a lot of desolation going on. What does Saint Ignatius do? Always practical it's that military background. He's very practical. First thing he says if you, if you're aware that I'm, you know, in desolation don't make a change. Right. That's what the desolation always tells you, you know, this is hopeless. This new resolve you've made, you can never live up to it. Just quit, you know that's but again, that's the desolation speaking, right? So he says in time of desolation never make a change. Right? You want to wait, wait until you get to that time of peace again, then you can reevaluate.

Another thing he says is he says to remind yourself, God always gives you enough grace. It might not be easy, but he always gives you enough grace to do as well. Right. It's against that discouragement, that the discouraging thoughts of the desolation. And then finally, one more thing he says is he says, remind yourself that this isn't forever. Desolation tends to color your past and your future. Right. When you're, when you're feeling down, it's just natural to say, oh, things have always been bad and things are always going to be bad. But to remind yourself of the truth of saying even calling to mind, no, there were times when I knew God's presence, you know, and those will come again, right. That this is temporary. So you don't make a change.

Father Giera: I can't remember what book of the Bible that's in. Like, Hey is everything going well for you? Remember, there's bad times to keep you in check when you're in a very bad time. Like I remember my back surgery and you think you're never going to get better. We remember those good times. You will. That's right. Things will change.

Father Pellican: It's very true. Actually. You, you mentioned that. So there's 14 rules for the first week of St. Ignatius. three are about consolation. Two are just kind of basic instructions. The, the remaining nine are on desolation. Hmm. Right. Because I think the genius there is that, you know, when you're in a time of consolation you don't need as much guidance. Cause you're already listening to God. Right. You know where he's at, but, but one of those two rules in consolation is like to remember that desolation may come again and to just prepare your heart for that, you know, not to like, make yourself all anxious, you know. You thank God yet you remain in the desolation, but you know, you remember like, Hey, this might not last, you know.

Father Giera: What was the other one?

Father Pellican: What was the other rule? Oh, now you're testing me in consolation. Oh, I remember what it was. Wow. Look at that. So, so the first rule in consolation was as I said to, to just be prepared for desolation to come again, right. The other one was to strive for humility. . You could say the virtue to strive for in desolation is patients, right. Patients being like this disposition that's because usually desolation wants to agitate you. Right. Get you impatient. Kind of. And so the virtuous patients to say like, this isn't gonna, this isn't gonna last forever. I can get through this. The virtue in consolation to look for is humility. Right? To realize that you know, th th the gift of God's presence, his, his felt presence, his grace, isn't something you earned. Right. But to give thanks, right. Is this a gift from God? Right. That's actually saying the nation says, one of the reasons why God might give allow you to be in desolation at times is to remind you that the graces of consolation are his gifts. Not something we can earn. Yeah.

Well, Father Craig, there's a whole lot more we could say aboutSt. Ignatious.

Father Giera: I think we would need a whole nother, a whole nother, separate podcast, just about St. Ignatius for like weeks and weeks and weeks to, to understand everything about what it is to do his spiritual exercise and stuff. But hopefully it can just be a start. And I think just remember this consolation and desolation is a really good thing, because I think sometimes what we do is we're on fire for the Lord. The Lord has given us constolation and then problems happen, right? We're talking about father Bryan Kassa, you know, the vocation director for the Chaldean Eparchy. He was talking about how his mom didn't want him to go to the seminary, right. Like, right. And that's a desolation light is, oh, now I have all these problems. Maybe that's a sign that the Lord is telling me I need to change what I'm supposed to be doing. And that would be the exact opposite of what Ignatius would say is like, okay, during that time of desolation, you need to wait and figure out what the light of Christ is going to be for the next move. Yeah. So we just need to recognize that, you know, are we in desolation? Are we in consolation? I think is a great help for people who are discerning the priesthood.

Father Pellican: I couldn't agree more. Amen. Well, Father Craig, it's been great being with you today. I'd love to close with just a prayer by St. Ignatius. And this is a prayer that we can pray in desolation. So the name of the father, the son, and the holy spirit, amen. Oh Christ Jesus, when all is darkness and we feel our weakness and helpless helplessness, give us the sense of your presence, your love, and your strength, help us to have perfect trust in your protecting love and strengthening power so that nothing may frighten or worry us for living close to you. We shall see your hand, your purpose, your will in all things. Amen.

Father Giera: Amen. Father, son. Holy spirit. Amen. Well, thank you father David for leading us along in the discernment of spirits and talking about St. Ignatius. This is a beautiful gift that we can all receive of, of God's light and knowing which way to walk. Thank you for leading us Father David and, and being at the Father David show, lead us out.

Very good. Good to be with you, Father Craig. You've been listening to Men of the Hearts, a monthly podcast from the archdiocese of Detroit office of priestly vocations each month. Join me, your host Father David Pellican, and your other host Father Craig Giera, as we explore the priesthood here, vocation stories from priests all over the archdiocese and answer questions about discerning a priestly vocation tune in every month to wherever you get your podcasts and learn more at DetroitPriestlyVocations.com.