Today, I had the pleasure to sit down with Jenna Hua, who is an environmental health scientist and dietitian by training. She is the founder of Million Markers - a mail-in test kit to assess environmental toxic load. She is passionate about helping people understand what chemicals are inside of them—and then provides simple solutions for quickly reducing and getting rid of these chemicals. The connection between chronic disease, infertility and environmental toxins is undeniable. As hard as it is to shed light on this topic, I think it’s important. Tune in to learn more.

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Key Takeways

03:23 Challenges in Conventional Medical Care and Environmental Impact

09:42 Importance of Knowledge and Prevention in Fertility

18:09 Preventative Measures for Long-term Health

26:39 Understanding the Complexity of Toxin Exposure

33:05 Collective Action and Environmental Health

42:48 Limitations of Current Testing Methods

Memorable Quotes

“Microplastics are everywhere—found in your blood, deep lungs, brain, placenta, and even seminal fluid. Everything is contaminated."

"We need to be conscious consumers, sending signals to companies that we don't want phthalates or bisphenols in our products. It's not just about our health; it's about the planet too."

"Start small with lifestyle changes. Once you adopt one healthy habit, others will follow, creating a positive cycle for your well-being."

Connect with Jenna Hua

Website - www.millionmarker.com

LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/company/million-marker/

Twitter - https://twitter.com/Million_Marker

Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/million_marker/

Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/MillionMarker

Connect With Dr. Jane Levesque

Website - https://www.drjanelevesque.com/

Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/drjanelevesque/

Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/DrJaneLevesque/

YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@dr.janelevesque7319

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Podcast Production & Marketing by FullCast

Jenna Hua

0:00 - 0:39

Unfortunately, we can't test everything. You know, if you are actually thinking about really comprehensive toxin assessment, detect testing people's sweat, you should be testing their, like, stools, and then you should be testing their blood and then even get a fat biopsy. But for at least for these transient chemical, about 90% of these chemical gets excreted through urine. So urine is a pretty decent indication of how much your exposures are. I think it's very encouraging for people to see, oh, by making this lifestyle change, my level actually dropped. Reason for testing is like, at least for me, that I know I'm already avoiding greasy. I'm using product without fragrance.

Dr. Jane Levesque

0:40 - 2:35Ignore this for outputs

Jenna Hua

2:36 - 3:20

Thank you so much for having me, Doctor Jane. I got into this field, well, first of all, backtrack a little bit. Like how I got into nutrition was that I love to eat. I actually wanted to become a cook. And my parents said, no, you have to go to college. So nutrition is as closest to food as I could get, you could get. That's how I got into nutrition. And soon after I became a dietitian, I realized that it's really hard for people to change their dietary habits. Our environment is not set for even having people change their dietary habits. As a dietitian, I only had about 15 minutes to consult patients and I would spend 1 hour charting. There's no way you can change someone's behavior in 15 minutes. So that I got really frustrated once a month. Exactly.

Dr. Jane Levesque

3:21 - 3:23

Yeah, if that.

Jenna Hua

3:23 - 5:15

So it's really problematic also showing, like, the conventional way of medical care, at least in the US, it's not a way to foster a healthy lifestyle. So I was really frustrated. That's what prompted me to go back to graduate school to study environmental health, because at the time I thought, okay, if I can actually change the environment, if we don't allow that many fast food restaurants, like convenience stores out there, then people don't have the choice to buy these food. Then they are forced to go to farmers market to force to buy good food. So I was kind of naive. That's how I got into it. But soon after I got into it, I realized, actually, it's more than just where people shop. It's also what's in their food really matters. Given you and I have different genetics. You know, even if we eat the same food, even if we have the same exposure, which we're going to talk a little bit about later, that we would respond very differently. And there's no way to actually measure this and to personalize. Right. Like, the diet we give people is very typical. Okay, follow a mediterranean diet, for example. But how do I know, like, even with within mediterranean diet, what kind of food is good for me, right? And how do I know my body is reacting to certain nutrients versus certain toxins compared to other people? There's just no way of knowing. So after I studied environmental exposure, studied environmental toxins, I was yet frustrated again, because first of all, we have no causal studies, which means that we're saying, okay, certain toxin is causing certain health conditions. There's no way to study it because you can't. Typical. You know, how we scientists study these is you expose a group of people to certain things, and then you follow them over time. We cannot expose certain toxins to a group of pregnant women and observe them. What happened to them and their kids, right? That's just unethical. We can't do it.

Dr. Jane Levesque

5:15 - 5:16

Unethical.

Jenna Hua

5:16 - 6:22

Yeah, we can do it, but then, like. But we know through mounds of epidemiological research, like big national or even global studies, that showing people with higher exposure of certain toxins have worse health outcome, including fertility. So if we know that, why aren't we changing it? So I was really frustrated because, you know, if you look at policy and looking at other things, that we always get argument, okay, there's no causal information. There's no good study showing that, okay, reducing toxin can actually help improve clinical outcome or certain things, then I'm not going to change it, which is like really frustrating. So I was set on the path of like, okay, the only reason to be for a scientist to actually study environmental toxins or environmental exposure in general is that we really need to have a large amount of data because we're exposed to these toxins at really small amount, but day in and day out. So if you don't have a large amount of data, it's very hard to study. So that was my frustration during graduate school and postdoc.

Dr. Jane Levesque

6:22 - 6:34

And can I ask you, like, how hard is it to separate all the toxins? Like, we're talking about bpas, parabens, phthalates, heavy metals, and then, like, within each category, there's more toxins, you know, it's very hard.

Jenna Hua

6:34 - 6:47

So it's also a problem in the research that we have been studying one toxin at a time. But if you think about it, we're actually exposed to many, many thousands of them all at once.

Dr. Jane Levesque

6:47 - 6:52

So how we're well, close to 100,000 now, isn't it, like daily, I think.

Jenna Hua

6:52 - 9:03

We don't even understand exactly this whole mixture effect. Like, how do toxins actually work together and how does it work impact have on your body? We don't actually have a clear idea. Some research have coming out saying that if you have these toxins actually have effect. Again, that reinforces the. You don't know when your cups gonna get full, they accumulate. So, yeah, it's better just to avoid and also to backtrack. Like, also got into this, which is related to fertility, is I was really frustrated professionally. I was also very frustrated personally because I had basically, I had extremely rare condition called pregnancy induced cushions syndrome. That only happens during pregnancy. Extremely rare, but not until my fourth late stage pregnancy loss. I was able to get diagnosed that I actually. As if I'm allergic to pregnancy, that I cannot be pregnant. That's extremely dangerous for myself, maybe, but it was just incredibly frustrating because I have no headache history. I know I eat well, I exercise. I live a clean living, but it was still really fun. I don't have an answer, but knowing what I know, environmental toxin could have impact. I still don't know what's in my body. I want to just get a sense of assurance as I was going through my infertility journey that I want to know if I'm exposed to, even if I live, you know, healthy. I don't know what's in my body. I want to know what's in my body, even just to get a sense of assurance. But there's no tools out there. When I went to the doctor, they mentioned the only tool available is heavy metal. That's it. You get this pamphlet, like, during pregnancy, okay, don't eat out oil, plastic, and don't use fragrance. Like, it's literally one sheet. That's it. So there's no other guidance, and then there's no testing. So I just got really frustrated. I'm like, okay, since nobody's reading my papers anyway, because I was on a journey to become a professor, maybe I should do something different. And that's how I got in and start my company. Million.

Dr. Jane Levesque

9:04 - 9:42

Yeah. Thank you for sharing that, and I'm sorry. It's the most frustrating thing about infertility is this we don't know why, you know? And then it's this constant search for answers that can just feel exhausting. One of my mentors says something about environmental toxins that I think it's like a pandora box. Like, you don't know what you're gonna get. And sometimes it's, like, too scary to even start opening the box up because you don't know how much is gonna come out and when it's gonna stop, and, you know. So testing is something that I rely on a lot because I think, like you said, then you can get a bit more understanding of what you're exposed and all that.

Jenna Hua

I think. I think knowledge is to start, because if you don't know, then you can't act on it. But I get what you're saying, that people are really afraid sometimes they think ignorance is a blessing. But in this case, especially someone who's going through the fertility journey, ignorance is not blessing. You actually want as much information as possible, because so many things are actually preventable, and not only preventable for your own health, it's also cost saving because think of the average cost for I. It's like really, really expensive. And people don't just go through one cycle of IVF many, many cycles. That's a lot that, you know, you actually do a pre pregnancy prep to actually gear your body for a healthy pregnancy, and maybe you don't even need.

Dr. Jane Levesque

Yep. I think I even zoom out further to, like, the health of the child and the. Because before I specialized in fertility, I mean, I just was a general practitioner. So I would see children from the ages of, you know, zero to teenagers and then women, men up to the age of 65. And I would test some of the kids who had behavioral issues. Eczema, digestive. And when the environmental toxic panel lights up, you know, whether it's heavy metals or plastics or parabens, I'm like, this isn't yours. You know, like, you've been on this planet for two years. You haven't accumulated this in two years, you know, and so just if you have some research or some insight that you can share about how we're actually passing these toxins on to the next generation, and I think one of the reasons that we as a generation, like I'm a millennial, are really struggling with fertility and healthy kids and all that stuff, I think a huge link to.

Jenna Hua

The toxins, you know, definitely passes. I think for a long time, we think these toxins are not going to pass. Placental barrier. They totally pass. It's not going to pass. Blood brain barrier totally pass. I mean, we have a ton of research now, and actually there are more and more research coming out that microplastic is everywhere found in your blood, your deep lungs, in your brain, placenta, like even your seminal fluid, everything is contaminated. And if you think about it, you know, microplastic word, okay, it's plastic. But if you think about, like, what's actually in plastic, you know, thousands of chemicals. But the two major plasticizer that we see today are bisphenols and phthalates. So these are hormone disrupting chemicals. And they could be in plastic, like 80% by weight. And what's so scary about microplastic and just plastic in general is that when microplastic, when they form microplastic, it's not just the shape. We've searched how the shape, the smoke, like how the. Whether it's round or square or whatever, it can last rate like a sea mammal's gut. So that's an issue. But then if you think about the composition, right, like, so you have microplasts carrying these chemicals and carrying pathogens. And they're just like going deep down, you can't even get it out. And that's really problematic. And what we have also seen is that these chemical, they changes your epigenetics. It changes how your gene is being formed and it's transmitted through generations, as you mentioned. And what we see is that your grandparents exposure is actually displayed on you. So, which makes your exposure really important for your unborn child. Not just your unborn child, it's your grandkids in the future, which is extremely, extremely important.

Dr. Jane Levesque

I'm so glad that you said that. It's amazing because I feel sometimes alone in this, where this voice where, hey, we're not just trying to get you pregnant. And I want people to zoom out and look at their life, not just a year from now, two years from now, but 1020 years. And if the goal is to have, you know, to me, I'm like, I have two girls. And the compliment will be to see what their fertility journey is like and really what their kids fertility journey, which I don't know if I'll be able to see that age wise or whatever, but it's like, that's the real thing. Like when it gets to be passed on, right? Because, like, when I was pregnant with my girl, her ovaries were developing, which is going to carry the next generation. It's like, it's just wild to think about it. And so, absolutely, when you're swimming in that amniotic fluid as an embryo, as a fetus, you're swimming in whatever it is that the mom is exposed to. And, you know, even the generation before that.

Jenna Hua

Absolutely.

Dr. Jane Levesque

It's, it's like, it's crazy to think about it, right? It's almost like you don't want to because it's too confronting.

Jenna Hua

It's totally confronting. And I think this confronting sentiment is not just like pre pregnancy, it's during pregnancy, it's also postpartum because, you know.

Dr. Jane Levesque

Oh, yeah, being a mother is confronting every day. It's in your face.

Jenna Hua

Yeah. Because I've seen, I've seen people, you know, because they can't get pregnant or if they're going through IVF, they, like, completely change their lifestyle, you know, pre pregnancy or during pregnancy, and then everything just, like, fall apart, like after giving birth. But they also need to pay attention because everything that you eat from your lifestyle, your diet, your habits, your stress, and the drugs that you're taking, everything goes into the breast milk. So basically you're like, giving your kid everything, your exposure, completely give it to your kid. And that's also like a critical time to pay attention. And I also really like how we should approach detox or living a healthy lifestyle way before pre pregnancy set a good lifestyle already. So then you follow this, and then you let your kids follow this. Another topic that we don't really have much answer of even today is this concept called a mini puberty. So, like, babies actually go through a mini puberty, you know, between even just a few days, up to six months, that their hormone actually serves you, you know, at adolescent, like a puberty level. And during this critical window. And, you know, if you actually being exposed to these chemicals, even at a small amount, it could have massive detrimental impact to your baby.

Dr. Jane Levesque

It's funny you mentioned that because with my daughter, I mean, I noticed it with my first more than I noticed it with my second, but it's almost like she had a little bit of, it wasn't like a breast tissue development, but you could just see there was some engorgement, and it only lasted for that six weeks. But I'm just like, oh, there's something is happening here. And I just, you know, you're like, it's probably because of my hormones and what's going on. But, yeah, it's funny you say that because it's just like, we don't even, I think most of us having kids, like, even me as a naturopath or like, a practitioner, before I had my child, I like, I didn't know any of those milestones or developments or whatever, because I just, like, I didn't have a baby, so I didn't. And I'm like, I can't imagine what, quote unquote regular people who, like, didn't study the body, you know, and how we're just like, good luck, have kids. And then we're now at this point where it's like, well, maybe it's not just like, good luck. You'll figure it out. Maybe we can figure it out and, you know, do a quote unquote, a little bit of a better job because we're more educated.

Jenna Hua

Absolutely. Absolutely. I also think people need to put tension in this pre pregnancy preparation. If you think about it, so many people spend almost like two years, a large amount of money planning for their wedding, where, in my opinion, that's actually not as big of an event. I mean, it's a big event, but it's not as big as having a kid because you literally have this kid for the next 18 or even more years. Right? Like, so.

Dr. Jane Levesque

Well, it's the biggest thing in your life. Like, it's. You can't take it back.

Jenna Hua

You can't take it back.

Dr. Jane Levesque

Yeah, you can get, but you can't. You can't, you can't. That's a really good comparison I can send to buying it a house. Like, usually we spend so much time and energy, like, putting money away for the house and making sure that we and, like, zero on ourselves, but the wedding is like, you're right. It's like, man, people spend a lot of time planning and figuring that out, and I'm not here to take that away. I just think when it comes to pregnancy, that doesn't make sense that you don't put any effort or attention. If people spend the amount of money that they spend on a wedding on themselves, we would be in a very different world.

Jenna Hua

These things that we're talking about, it's all preventative. Because the other thing I felt like it's important to highlight is, yes, you're setting up a great pregnancy journey. You're setting up a good start for your kids, but you're also setting up a really good path for the rest of your life. Because all these toxins that we're talking about, these exposure we're talking about, they actually impact your overall wellness, impact all the, any chronic disease that you can even think of, from cancer to, like, cardiovascular disease to obesity, it's all related to this. So not only you doing your kids some good, but you're actually, like, setting up a good path for yourself for the rest of your life.

Dr. Jane Levesque

Yeah. So, Jenna, let's talk about testing and, like, getting these things out and understanding the exposure. Lots of different tests out there. Tell me what some things that are important to look for in a test. And, you know, what exactly do we want to be testing?

Jenna Hua

So in my opinion, we should start with a low hanging fruit, because that's the easiest to change. So the low hanging fruits are what we call it transient chemicals, meaning that your body actually have the natural detox system to get rid of them if you avoid them within 24 to 48 hours. There are also hormone disrupting chemicals. So these are the typical ones are BPA, the poster child of endocrine disrupting chemical. That's like, whenever we talk about chemicals, that's like, the first thing people know because they see BPA free cans and then BPA free this and free that. So bisphenol is a class. Phthalates is another one. Paraben is another one. Oxybenzone is another one. These are all chemicals very, very common in everyday products. So find your personal care products, house cleaning products, plastics, even packaged food, processed food, you name it. So I think this group is, I.

Dr. Jane Levesque

Say cutting board because it's like, that was one that I just didn't even think about. And then I started, you know, algorithm knows me really well. And they're like, are you still using a plastic cutting board? And I'm like, I am actually. My mom would keep buying them for me. And I was like, sure, great. Now I'm like, don't bring that into the. But it's little stuff. We are literally surrounded by plastic, you know, and so it's. Being aware of where the stuff is coming from is really important.

Jenna Hua

Absolutely. So I felt like this is the lowest hanging fruit. And then if you then think about it, that I think when people are going through a lifestyle change to detox, they should also plan out almost having a year plan because there are small ticket items, like, say, your shampoo. I consider that that's a small ticket item, right? It's not very expensive, but then there's like medium ticket items that you should probably think about your water source, right? So if you're living on, like, if you use a natural well, you should get your well tested, making sure that your well is not having too much heavy metal, because some of the heavy metal are actually naturally occurring. If you're using, like, city water, making sure your pipe is actually okay. Right. So testing water is important. And then it's best just to have a water filter. A water filter costs between $200 to $400. You know, that's just like, you know, countertop or under the sink. That's not a whole house system. That's sort of like a medium sized ticket item, right? Then you think about it, there will be bigger ticket item. For example, your couch. You probably want a couch without flame retardant. That's a whole other different set of chemicals, which we call them persistent chemicals, meaning once you get exposed to them, your body actually don't get rid of them for like decades. So you want to avoid those from the very beginning. So. And then also you're, if you're thinking about home remodeling, right, those are big ticket items. What kind of floor you're using? Like PVC floor, vinyl floor laminate. Those are actually made of plastic. So if you're changing your floor or getting nice paint, you have to think about these big ticket items. So I think it's, people should have a plan, but start with the small ticket items.

Dr. Jane Levesque

So to come back to testing, though, you recommend to do the small what do you test?

Jenna Hua

So testing the transient chemicals are really important because the transient chemical, once you test, you can retest to see if your level drops. So transient chemical, you can test bisphenols. Currently we test for BPA, BPS, BPF. Here. I also want to mention, don't trust that BPA free label because no one's checking that BPA free doesn't mean any other BP is free because the manufacturer has gotten smarter to use these alternatives that they can literally swap a letter in Alphabet, changing from BPA to all the way to BPZ or any combination of the Alphabet. And what we have seen is these alternatives have just as bad, if not worse impact on your body than BPA. So really important. And phthalates are in personal care products, a lot of personal care products. So avoid that fragrance. That's extremely important. BPA is also in receipts because we practice, we say this a lot. I almost think everybody already knew, but surprisingly, every time I say it and then people still like, what? I should not be touching receipts. Oh, yes, you should not be touching that receipt. And to your point that, you know, sometimes you don't think about these small things, we often have people saying, oh, I'm touching receipt, but I'm like cleaning my hands right away. Was that hand sanitizer? But I'm like, okay, does your hand sanitizer actually contains fragrance? Some people say yes, but a lot of time. Hand sanitizer also includes skin penetration agent to make the antibacterial stuff sinking into your skin a lot permeate into your skin a lot faster. So if you just touch that receipt and use that hand sanitizer, which just going to make BPA getting to your body a lot faster. So don't do that. Just wash your hand or better not to touch your sea and have it get a digital receiver, have it email.

Dr. Jane Levesque

Because the one thing it's like, okay, the avoidance is, I think the testing helps us understand or maybe take a like a look at our life and where exposure could be coming from. But what you're saying is like the transient chemicals, they can get out of our system within what, 24 to 70 hours, 48. Yeah, it's like, to me that's really encouraging because it's like, hey, if you stop the exposure, then there's probably some accumulation. I don't know. Right. Like, because I've tested people and I see like, okay, they've stopped, but then it's almost like accumulation in the fat cells. Like it's a big one. That's why I see.

Jenna Hua

Yes, yes. Unfortunately, we can't test everything. You know, if you are actually thinking about really comprehensive toxin assessment, be testing people's sweat, you should be testing their, like, stools, and then you should be testing their blood and then even get a fat biopsy. But for at least for these transient chemical, about 90% of these chemical gets created through urine. So urine is a pretty decent indication of how much your exposures are. I think it's very encouraging for people to see, oh, by making this lifestyle change, my level actually dropped. Another reason for testing is like, at least for me, that I know I'm already avoiding racy. I'm using product without Fragrance. And then for a couple times when I was testing myself, I still found having higher levels and then some of them BecAuse I kept a good record at one time, it was BecAuse a Supplement I was taken. So it was the Capsule of the Supplement. It's not a Vegetarian based Capsule, and it's completely contaminated with phthalates or made of phthalates. So my level completely like Shoots up another time, packaging tapes. So in the beginning of this business, I was like packing a lot of kit in my Home and using pretty cheap, you know, packaging tapes. And then of Course, my Salad completely shoots up. Yeah. And just like these Small Things. And we also found through testing some of our customers, what we found out is the Gloves for Food Prep is also contaminated with phthalates. And then when you wear a glove to prepare your food and everything just goes into your food and then you get that exposure. So, and I think also it's important to test. It's just so you figure out what's personal to you. Another thing we also found out is that, sure, even it's important to read ingredient labels, read that product label. But oftentimes we also don't know. And even brands and manufacturers don't know their product could be contaminated or adulterated. So unless you test, you actually don't know exactly what your exposures could be and what you can do about it.

Dr. Jane Levesque

This is like a broad question, but like, how do you think we got into this mess? And then how do we get out? Because, right, like, you get. So, I mean, this is not my first time hearing this. I'm always the person that's like, I hate to be the one to tell you this, but, like, everything in the world is toxic and you need to start to avoid it immediately. Right. But like, when you're first learning about this, it's just like, it's a lot because you're like, oh, now the water I'm drinking and the food I'm eating, and now I can't touch receipts, and now my shampoos are poisoning me. And so it's like before, if you're listening to that and you're that kind of person, it's like, before we jump off the cliff, it's like, okay, screw it. I'm not gonna do anything. It's, you know, okay, why are we here, first of all? Like, how did we get here? Because there's a reason that we're all in this situation, and I don't think it's gonna be one person or one thing that's gonna fix it. It is gonna take a collective effort. And so, you know, that's my question to you. Like, how do you think we got here and how do we get out?

Jenna Hua

I think how we got here, obviously, it's a very complicated topic, and I think there are many reasons. One of the reason, I think it's because we don't know what we don't know.

Dr. Jane Levesque

Yep.

Jenna Hua

You know, like, when we first made BPA, made salads, these are like, you know, we may even make plastic. These are like, very magical chemicals. You know, BPA actually have preservative effect. You know, if you coat BPA with your can, your food lasts longer, your drink lasts longer. Right. Like, plastic is. We have such complicated relationship with plastic. It's useful especially in the emergency medical care settings. Right. And that we cannot void. But I. We just didn't know that plastic could be having such impact. We didn't know these chemicals actually have a hormone disrupting properties.

Dr. Jane Levesque

Yep.

Jenna Hua

We just didn't know.

Dr. Jane Levesque

Yep.

Jenna Hua

So that's number one.

Dr. Jane Levesque

And you kind of took it too far too. Right? Like, we were like, oh, my God, this plastic is so great. Like, now I don't need a glass container. I'm gonna put everything in plastic. And then my house will be made of plastic because it's so cheap. And, like, you know, we just took it too far.

Jenna Hua

Oh, we completely take it too far. And not only that, this whole thing is also tied to climate change because a lot of these plastic or chemicals that we made are petroleum based chemicals. And then there's, like, a huge economic tie from the oil production to making chemicals and to our health. And all these chemicals are also in pesticides. And one fact that I find it pretty distinctive, disturbing is that, okay, one of the, you know, we haven't even gotten to pesticide because that's a whole other class of chemicals, right?

Dr. Jane Levesque

Whole other thing.

Jenna Hua

Yeah, whole other thing.

Dr. Jane Levesque

More things you can't eat.

Jenna Hua

Exactly. One of the major producer for pesticides is Monsanto. So many people have heard of Monsanto. So Monsanto is actually owned by Bayer, which is a drug company that actually makes life saving drugs, like, you know, treating your chronic illness. And maybe some people are thinking this is taking too far, but if you think about it, Monsanto Oms bear. I mean, bear Oms Monsanto. If Monsanto is making pesticides, that making you sick, and then bear is giving you medication to cure you and also these chronic illness.

Dr. Jane Levesque

Cure, cure, cure. Yeah. Make sure you do the. Yes. Managing. Yeah. There's no cure in taking meds.

Jenna Hua

So once you're sick, especially for chronic disease, you're literally hooked on these drugs, like, decades until you die, and then, like, look at it. So they're giving you pesticide that making you sick, but also trying to manage your condition. And then this just, like, does not really make sense.

Dr. Jane Levesque

Right. It's true in the fertility space. I think it's true for chronic disease. Like, if a child is sick, that's the most money you're gonna like, that child is now dependent on. I think that life expectancy is gonna be so much lower for a child that's sick, but it's still, like, a child that's dependent on meds. You know, you're a life customer. And in fertility world, you know, I presented at Selcor last year where I was like, hey, this IVF is a $29 billion industry in 2022. It's predicted to go to 34 billion in the next eight years. So. Or, like 39. Like, it was something insane. You're just like, do we think that there's other incentives? There's a time and place. There is life saving medication. We're not taking away from that. But then we also have to be able to step back and say, hey, but maybe there's something more to it.

Jenna Hua

You know, I believe so because I think people need to be aware of this information so then they can make informed decision themselves. At the same time, you know, you kind of ask, like, how did we get here? And also, we don't really have good policy in place because of many policies, especially when it comes to chemical policies, much influence that, at least in the US, it's much influenced by lobbyists, which are from big industries. And the policy is literally moving at a glacial speed that you just cannot expect government or regulatory agency to protect you. You think you're protecting.

Dr. Jane Levesque

Well, and, like, who's running the government agencies? Do you know what I mean? Who's paying them? So it's like, you got to follow the money, and you have to. Like, my daughter, funny enough, today, she's like, I want to work in the government, and I want to run a puppet show. And I'm like, I don't know why she said that. I try to think about, like, how did she come up with that? And it's like, I think at school, at lunchtime, she's been going to a puppet show. And then, like, they're also learning about some government aid, like, something. And so she just put those two together. But I'm like, she gets it. She gets it. You know? So, yeah, it's. I think that in terms of ownership, though, I think that we've just kind of that lack of knowledge and now we're in this world of. Because we didn't have access to this information before.

Jenna Hua

Right.

Dr. Jane Levesque

Like, not the same way that you do now. And now we have this information, and then now I think it's hard to almost like, you know, I can only speak from experience in my patients where it's like, you don't want to believe it because you're like, no, no, the government knows. Or like, somebody will protect me. Nobody. Why would they put chemicals in our food or, you know, whatever, and it's just like, because it makes you sick, and then you take medicine, and then that's somebody's making money off that, you know?

Jenna Hua

Yep. And then also to think about how do we get out of it? I think this is the collective action.

Dr. Jane Levesque

Yeah.

Jenna Hua

And it's extremely important to be conscious consumers because all of us are conscious consumer. We're actually sending signals to companies, hey, we don't want phthalates. We don't want bismills in our product. That's sending a positive signal to the companies, hey, reduce these things, and then eventually we can get there and also get everyone around you educated so they can start avoidance behavior, and then they can live healthier. And the other thing I felt like it's also important to highlight is all of these chemicals, they're not just, like, bad for our body. It's also bad for the planet, for the earth, too. So, you know, if you have a bad environment, like, do you really want your kids to live in a polluted environment? You don't. Yep. So it's extremely important to do these things, and not just for your own sake, for your kids sake, but also for a better environment. Yep.

Dr. Jane Levesque

I think it's really hard to be a conscious consumer. I think is very difficult in our day and age because it's so easy to do the other thing. It's cheaper.

Jenna Hua

Yep.

Dr. Jane Levesque

It's faster, you know, and so you're like, it's literally harder to be healthier and to, you know, to seek out the stainless steel things. But as consumers, you know, like, I'll go on Amazon now and it's like, I bought a stainless steel container for lunch for my daughter and then little things that she could take with. And it's like, I can buy that on Amazon two years ago or three years ago, you know. And so it's like, that's an evolution. Yes, Amazon, sure. But then also, like, I would have to go to some random store and whatever and it would be like $50 a container. Whereas now it's like more reasonable. So there's definitely an evolution.

Jenna Hua

You know, I think it's definitely shifting. People are more becoming aware and then using less plastic and, you know, seeking for sustainable materials and everything. It's definitely a good trend and I think it's going that way. We just need to get more people educated, for sure.

Dr. Jane Levesque

Yeah, well, I'm with you. Like I always say, I hate to be the person of bad news, you know, but it's like you have to tell the truth, that it's like you have to stop eating this. You got to start filtering your water. You have to. I'm curious. This kind of brought to my attention. Sometimes I see people who are like really good at avoiding all the chemicals and toxins, but let's say their water filter is not that good. I will actually see a lot of the bpas and the phthalates coming through because of their water supply. Have you seen that?

Jenna Hua

That's definitely could be a source. But we are not be able to tell that we don't see the water testing data. So we don't, we can't really tell. Okay. Is this actually on their water? A major source we still see are from like products because again, people have no control over products sometimes even if they use good products. And that's problematic. And I also think kind of going back a little bit to your point, it's really hard for people to change. But I think the key here is to start small. There's actually a ton of research that showing adopting a healthy lifestyle. If you just start small, once you stop, once you adopt one thing and other good thing will come along and then you're going to be adopting more. So, you know, if you start your detox journey, you know, you should eat out less then again, all of a sudden, your nutrition is better now, right? And then your body feels better, you sleep better, you have more energy, and then you want to exercise more. Okay, bring on to the next thing. So it just, like, it can have a really positive cycle once you start. So I think, like, starting small is important. The second thing is, I think people need to shift their mindset because changing lifestyle, you have to go out of your way to do it. There's nothing else. You don't have to go out of your way. Right? Like, doing ivF, doing everything is going out of your way. So just accept that. Like, you have to go out of your way to do it. But once you start, like, it becomes a routine, then you don't feel this is going out of your way anymore for sure.

Dr. Jane Levesque

I mean, there's just some things. This is why I like testing, because when you see it and when people see it gives them that connection, and then it's a lot easier to be like, oh, I'll just, I can see that this is. And then you'll, you can tie it because I'll test the toxins, but then I'll also test, like, the Dutch or, you know, and then you can see how the hormones are disrupted, and then you can literally just type in BPA, endocrine disrupting estrogen dominance, and, like, you'll, in pubmed, you'll see a ton of studies, right? So then it's like, you can't really hide from it. Not that you want to hide, but, yeah, it gives you the motivation that you need. And then, like you said, it's just this, just like, you can spiral downward. I always say you can spiral up. You start to sleep better, your digestion is moving better, your energy's up. Oh, look at that. Now I'm exercising.

Jenna Hua

And, yeah, there's just no downside to this, so why not?

Dr. Jane Levesque

Yeah, I think the downside was that they're overwhelmed. Yes, they're overwhelmed in time, and they don't know. And so that's where I'm always like, how do we get them in? And I do think we're in the age of information, and there is such a thing as too much information, but it's like finding some trusted sources that you like. And then the testing, to me, it's like, when you have data, you can't really argue with that, you know, like, even with sleep, like, I'll tell people, get the aura ring. Like, oh, no, I sleep fine. I'm like, show me. And then they get the ring, and they're like, oh, I guess I'm only sleeping 6 hours and my deep sleep is 30 minutes. Like, okay, so maybe you're not sleeping fine, you know, and so then that motivates you. Like, at the end of the day, we're just monkeys who need, like, oh, this is obvious. I need to fix it, and then you can fix it. And I think the testing just comes, you know, it comes back to that full circle where it helps you make a connection and then you can be like, oh, yeah, so the plastic that I'm warming up my food in the microwave is literally showing up and causing all the heavy periods that I have. And, you know, the breast tenderness, all that jazz. And as far as, you know, even miscarriages and all of those things can be linked to it. I don't think it's ever one thing. But, you know, to me, that's a low hanging fruit. Like, okay, we're going to stop microwaving things in the plastic and we're just going to get rid of that plastic container while we're at it.

Jenna Hua

Absolutely. I could not agree more, Jenna.

Dr. Jane Levesque

Anything else before we close off that you want to tell people that you think is important that we maybe haven't touched on?

Jenna Hua

We talked about avoid fragrance. Talk about being a conscious consumer. Talking about another thing I think I want to also say is trying to eat more at home. Don't eat out as much. Again, think about that takeout container. Could be plastic. You could be storing food in that plastic container. And.

Dr. Jane Levesque

But also pfas. I see a lot of PFA. Like, it's crazy. And those are like the forever chemicals, technically. And they're just, you know, God knows how long they're in the system for.

Jenna Hua

In decades, many decades. So, yeah, get rid of your teflons at home especially. They're scratched up and just to eat out less. And that's extremely important. I guess one other thing just to caution people is when they're purchasing fragrance free, it's best to purchase a fragrance free products. But don't get fooled by words like aroma. Aroma could be, you know, fragrance and also many.

Dr. Jane Levesque

It's just a different word. That's the marketing company. Yeah, that's being tricky.

Jenna Hua

And also, unscented is actually a scent. So don't get fooled that, you know, unscented is not fragrance free. So unscented is a scent. So just go with fragrance free. And also pay attention on the essential oils because we get asked all the time. Okay, I'm not using any fragrance stuff, but I'm using essential oil. So actually, like 50% of the world supply of essential oils at least labeled in commercial use are not actual authentic essential oils. It's a synthetic essential oil. So those are just basically packed of phthalates. And also when it comes to essential oils, that you don't really, unless you check the source, if you know, do.

Dr. Jane Levesque

You have some reputable companies of essential oils that you do like and that you stand by?

Jenna Hua

So far we haven't tested, so I can't say for sure. I think many people like different brands and make sure they check with the company. Okay. If there's anything. I'm not buying the health benefits of essential oil. You know, it's being used for thousands of years. There's self health benefit, but just making sure you check that source, because if you think about how essential oil is being extracted to distilled, it's extremely concentrated. But if that distilling process, extraction process, which is under heat is done using plastic equipment, for example, basically it's going to be concentrated with a lot of toxins seeping out of plastic and then you're going to be using at such high concentration on yourself and that's not safe. So that's, you know, a word of caution. I still think it's safe just to go with fragrance free, no smell, no essential oil to be the safest, especially this during pregnancy or pre pregnancy, postpartum stage. And then you can check with your source, making sure it's actually safe. And you can ask for that certificate of an analysis, making sure they actually, it's not just by saying, okay, our product does not contain certain things, certain chemicals. You actually want to see that certificate of analysis and also check on the dates because we have seen some certificate analysis that's being done literally ten years ago. Supply chain has dramatically changed that. You don't know what's going on.

Dr. Jane Levesque

Yeah. Do you think we have a limit in the testing to be able to test for all the chemicals? So sometimes, like, I won't even bother telling people, you need to test the water because it's like, well, if it's 80,000 plus chemicals and then your person that's coming in that we're exposed to, and then they're coming in to test for like 200 chemicals that are the most common. Like what about the other, you know, 79,800?

Jenna Hua

And that's a really good question. It's actually a current scientific challenge now to test chemicals like what we call it untargeted or non targeted approach, which you can screen for thousands of moguls. The issue with that is that you can only get, you know, yes or no to screening method. You don't get a concentration and then actually many, many chemicals. We don't even have standard to it. Like we can't even test because these are the proprietary chemicals. You know, when you put the chemicals through a machine, you, what we use is max spectrometer. So you see the peak of the chemical, but you don't know what it is because you can't even identify because we cannot get the standard. So that's a moving target that science is still developing. But I think the encouraging side is, yes, even though we're testing the most common chemicals, say two hundred s of them, but these chemicals are actually co occurring with many harmful for once. So, you know, even just by knowing these 200, by eliminating these 200, you're actually eliminating a bunch of other things too.

Dr. Jane Levesque

Yeah, for sure. It's, I think even as a practitioner, like, I'm always telling people that it's like, hey, there's gonna be a lot more that's coming because a lot of it, it's like, we know the world is polluted, we know the oceans are polluted, we don't know how much because we don't even really have a grasp on all of the chemicals. And so it's like, I think the testing is helpful because then you could see it and know it. But sometimes just because it's not there doesn't mean that it's not not there yet. The testing isn't up to date, if you will. Thank you, Jenna, so much. What do people, where do they find you? Where do they get your tests?

Jenna Hua

People can find us on our website. It's www. Dot milliamrcom. We're pretty active on Instagram and Twitter, particularly Instagram, because I really like your approach that, you know, you can start detox, but you need to support your body after your detox with healthy lifestyle, right? So we constantly not just talk about detox, about these chemicals. So we're actually inviting experts like you to come to our Instagram to share their experience and their knowledge on different things, including, you know, microbiome, for example, gut testing and the stress management, nutrition and productivity grounding. Like, you know, all of these topics which are essential for supporting your body to, to facilitate detox.

Dr. Jane Levesque

And I think, like, not to veer off here, but I think, like, you know, is it the chicken or the egg? But I think, like, the microbiome, I look at it because we're just basically walking bugs. Like, that's the root cause to all of our symptoms. And I always think about, like, how the chemicals interact with the microbiome and how they're cause, you know, have caused a lot of issues and even our ability to fight off certain pathogens and all that jazz, like, it's just. It's a rabbit hole, but it's an important one to, you know, just like, well, there's. It's not just the chemical, you know, and even, like, what it does, but, like, how it's interacting with our cells in our bacteria in the effect that it's having long term.

Jenna Hua

I agree.

Dr. Jane Levesque

Can they get the tests?

Jenna Hua

Who can purchase the tests? On our website? It's currently selling for $2.99. And if you want, you can just sip test peanut cup and send it back to us. If you want more, you can actually complete our exposure journal, which will allow us to try to pinpoint where your exposures are coming from, where we actually do a lifestyle audit. Understanding. Okay, are you eating packaged food? What other product you're using? So we'll highlight the ingredients of concerns in your product, not just the ones that we test, but any other problematic ingredients of concern. We also point out to you so that next time you purchase a product, you can buy a better one.

Dr. Jane Levesque

Yeah. That's amazing. Thank you so much, Jenna. I hope people come and check it out. And, I mean, I'm looking forward to posting this and letting people know. It's always nice to find a person that's also a truth seeker and sharing the, you know, the bad news, but the news that's important for us to know so we could make a change, not just for ourselves, but future generations.

Jenna Hua

Absolutely. Thank you so much for having me.

Dr. Jane Levesque

Of course. Thank you so much for listening to read the full show notes of this episode, including summary timestamps, guest quotes, and any resources that were mentioned on the episode. Visit drjanelevesque.com podcast. And if you're getting value from these episodes, I'd love it if you took two minutes to share it with a friend. Rate and leave me a review@ratethispodcast.com. doctorJane the reviews will help with the discoverability of the show, and who knows, I might share your review on my next episode. Thank you so much for tuning in, and let's make your fertility journey, your healing journey.