In this episode of Sharing The Mddl, I talk with Heather Pennel Glover, or HPG, about navigating life in the middle of cancer and motherhood. HPG shares her journey of getting sober, getting diagnosed with breast cancer, and finding support through it all. She and I also discuss the challenges of being a mom while battling a serious illness and the importance of asking for help. It is a really open and honest conversation that I am so proud of!

Our Guest

Heather Pennell-Glover

My name is Heather, aka, HPG. I am a toddler mom, wife, 20 plus year social worker turned life coach and podcaster. I started a healing journey right before getting diagnosed with breast cancer. I am a proud survivor, sober gal and believe you can growth through what you go through.

@accordingtohpg on Instagram

Heather's Website

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Next Door Goddess

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Mentioned in this episode:

Next Door Goddess

Mentioned in this episode:

Next Door Goddess

Hello, and welcome to sharing the middle where recovering

perfectionist overachievers.

And anyone in the middle of a struggle come together to learn, to

embrace the messy middles of life.

I'm Lacey, your friend in the middle and guide whose claim to fame this week is

making dinner three out of five nights.

Hello.

I'm amazing.

Today I'm joined by HPG or Heather Pennell Glover.

She is.

A podcaster cancer, survivor mom, former social worker,

all of these, so many things.

And we have this wonderful conversation about her middle of going through

cancer as a mother with a young child.

And.

Uh, I love it.

I really hope you enjoy it too.

So let's jump right in

Welcome.

Do you wanna take a moment and introduce yourself in your own words?

My name's Heather or h p g I am a breast cancer survivor podcaster.

Former social worker of 20 plus years.

Turned life coach, toddler mom, sober gal a wife.

Yeah, I wear a lot of hats.

You do wear a lot of hats.

you and I connected through TikTok, which I think is just so fun.

It is

That's how we connected.

I talk often about my, just love of exploring TikTok.

It's a fascinating place.

I would love to hear what you thought of when you first heard of the

concept of the middle and kind of your relationship with the middle.

I think it's maybe the reverse of your concept

really.

I aspire to be in the middle.

Interesting.

Because I've been through so many highs and lows.

I'm on an active journey for learning to live life in the middle.

And I think by that I mean more like balance.

Mm-hmm.

But I'm learning that balance looks different to different people.

Absolutely,

because I started my healing journey more intently after I quit

drinking in April of 2021, and then I got diagnosed with cancer.

There were a lot of highs and lows.

That's kind of what I understand.

Kind of what I'm aiming for.

Learn about life

in the middle.

Yeah, I think it's really interesting because I think we're

both trying to do something.

I'm just doing it angrily.

Yes.

Where As, you're like, I would aspire to the middle and all

this stuff, and I'm like, damn it, I've gotta figure out this middle

thing.

Well, I have felt a lot of.

Anger in my middles.

Mm-hmm.

And I think the middle point that comes up for me when I think about a middle for me

mm-hmm.

That's very significant is holding pattern.

Trying to live life in the middle of, okay, I have breast

cancer, I have a one-year-old,

had spread to the lymph nodes.

Now there's this giant mass in my pelvis that they're gonna have to do a total

hysterectomy on to see if it's like another cancer or a spread of cancer.

And that was like my most defined middle point that of my life that I can remember.

That's my next question, so you're awesome taking us into it.

That's a lot for to just unpack.

Why don't we start with, I guess the beginning when you talked about it

was the getting sober part for you.

Which is interesting that, that is so connected to your

journey with your cancer.

So I'm just curious how you see those as the beginning, if that

makes sense.

Yeah I had went on self-healing exploration journey many

years before I quit drinking.

And when I quit drinking.

That was like the catalyst of how I knew I would find my most authentic, true self.

Mm-hmm.

And I was coming out of like really dark depression and alcohol no longer served me

I had quit in April, and I got diagnosed with cancer in late July, early August.

And not going back to those former coping mechanisms to cope through cancer

is how I did so quote unquote well.

Yeah.

It's such achievement.

The minute you said that, I was like, oh my gosh.

I'm even more impressed with you because that is, it's so easy to

have something new like sobriety and then to go through something very

difficult and say, I'm not gonna use this in a, as an excuse to backslide.

I am going to keep pushing myself

forward.

Yes.

And people will tell you if I were in your shoes, I would drink four bottles of wine.

Like they will almost give you excuses, like emotional passes.

Mm-hmm.

To go back to it because I think they're speaking through what they

may do if they were in your shoes.

Yeah.

But I knew that.

I was at a point emotionally, physically, mentally, spiritually, that if I went

back to those old coping mechanisms that I would not be successful.

I may not be here talking to you because it was a huge life change

and at about 90 days in of living alcohol free, it was like, Wow.

So I'm gonna, I'm gonna have a more mentally healthy life.

I'm gonna have a more physically healthy life, hold my LaCroix, my sparkling water.

I have fat breast cancer.

So that's where the newness, like I had just gotten my sea legs

about living, you know, without booze and then just got hit.

But I will say, had I not quit, Drinking what I did, I may have not

went to the doctor as diligently.

Yeah.

Because I read a book that was really life-changing and it had these

are the things that you do in the first 30 days that you quit drinking and

going to the doctor was one of them and I had just turned 40, so a mammogram

was on the list and here we are.

That's interesting.

I was talking to my husband this morning about my own journey cuz.

Of something that's going on with him.

We were comparing it to me.

And he said something like, oh, do you regret that decision?

Because I had switched jobs and it's like a decision point in my life, you know,

where the path changed a big, big way.

And I said, no, I do not regret that decision because without that decision

I would not be where I am today.

And so it's really interesting to.

Think about that when you're looking back and of saying, if I didn't

do that, I wouldn't have done this and I wouldn't have done this.

And there's a lot of power in crafting your own story that

way.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, definitely.

And so I think it's really, it makes your sobriety

even more powerful, right.

Of my sobriety.

And it makes a lot of sense why that would be part of your,

your middle story.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's a huge life change to quit drinking or to quit using a

substance that you use daily.

Mm-hmm.

Cause you have to learn, who am I without this substance?

What do I do for fun?

That's, you know, weaved into that.

And then there's like mommy wine culture.

I was new to being a mom.

Yeah.

Figuring out like, who am I?

And then breast cancer happened and I was like, okay, I'm not

gonna question that decision.

I mean, don't think I didn't question it, cuz I

Oh absolutely.

But yeah, just trying to stay the course and it was

through a lot of support.

That I just reached out, like, sos help me.

Mm-hmm.

I can't do this

. Lacey: So would you say your support,

interested in because I am going through my own health issues right now and I find

the idea of support, cuz I'm comparing myself now as a person who needs a lot

of support to the person I was when I was giving support and I was crap at it.

I like hearing when people talk about reaching out for support.

Cuz first of all, that's really hard to do and I think it's

awesome that you did that.

Is that a support system that you already had?

Pre sobriety.

Did it come from your sobriety?

I know that sometimes that can be a, a place for

community.

At first I was like, I'm just gonna quit drinking.

And then I was like, you know, a couple weeks.

And I was like, this is harder than I thought.

Mm-hmm.

It was gonna be, I found this community called no More Wasted

days, and it's for people who are doing like alcohol free challenges.

And I was like, these are my people.

Like they're saying the very similar things that I'm experiencing.

So I got in community there and that's really not like me, you

know, as a social worker forever.

We put ourselves last

Oh yeah.

Run ourselves into the ground.

Absolutely.

Was like early 2021.

So things were still locked down.

So I found a lot of support, like online and then like with breast cancer through

like, Breast cancer online support groups.

Mm-hmm.

And then I had my own, like cancer life coach.

Mm-hmm.

That was also a cancer survivor.

I just knew, it was foreign to me to ask for help, but I knew that

if I didn't, the outcome, I knew I couldn't control the outcome.

But how I managed the middle,

yeah.

Something that I could control.

And I knew I couldn't do it alone.

Kudos to you, that's so hard to do.

Asking for self, especially someone like a social worker, someone

who's used to offering support.

To ask for it is

a really big step.

Yeah, it was, it was huge.

It was huge for me.

It was huge for me to like call on complete stranger that

I had never met in real life.

Mm-hmm.

But as cliche as this may sound like your vibe attracts your tribe.

And that's what I found to.

To be the real case for me.

Mm-hmm.

And some folks have had the privilege of meeting in real life and like making

the, some of the deepest friendships I've had as an adult by just asking for help.

That's a, a snippet I'm gonna pull out because that's

a really good piece of advice.

I would say it sounds like you're still very much in this middle

you're still in your fight, correct?

Yeah.

Yes.

So I finished physical treatment for cancer July of last year.

Mm-hmm.

Yesterday actually was one year away from chemo.

So I'm getting the hair back, like I'm starting to feel physically better,

but I think about, about cancer is.

And I don't think a lot of people think about which is reasonable

because why would you think about it?

Unless it happens to you or someone close to you?

Is it gonna come back?

Yeah.

So that is a middle that I have to balance every day.

Look, I went to the grocery store today and it just popped in my head.

And it's like, how do I work on thought suppression and balance and keep sanity

while doing activities of daily living, like going to the grocery store.

So it is still very much like a middle.

Mm-hmm.

Because you're, you're in early, you know, you're in survivorship, which is great,

but I think when the physical treatment ends, that's when the healing begins.

Interesting.

And then you.

You really start thinking like, damn, that happened to like, I

think some things happened to you.

That happened to me.

Yeah.

I am a completely in forever different person because

of this one diagnosis, like right down to life insurance.

Okay.

Things will call it to light and it's like mm-hmm.

I still got a lot of healing to do.

Well cuz you're no longer in the fight.

So that makes a lot of sense that it's when you can sit down

and think about what happens.

Yeah.

Do you really feel a lot of the feelings with that?

Sorry, I just got chills cuz I just, I I very much relate in part, so

I'm going through my own health thing right now and often I have the

hardest time after I've had a bad day cuz I'm feeling bad about it.

I'm feeling bad that I didn't show up when I'm in the bad day.

I'm just feeling the bad.

And so then it's like it ruins another day, you know?

Yes.

And I don't have an endpoint thus far, but it sounds like you probably

don't have an endpoint because of this kind of big question mark.

Yeah.

And with cancer treatment, With chemo and radiation, there are

like lifelong side effects that are physically limiting and like cognitive

deficits that I didn't have before.

Something affectionately called chemo brain, but I did not struggle with before.

So there are like after effects that you don't think about in the

battle because you really just want to truly survive that day.

And I don't really mean not.

Die from cancer.

That's obvious.

You don't want to do that.

But I mean, like the physical symptoms of chemo.

And then you don't think about oh, I'm gonna have neuropathy

or like limited range of mesh in my arms for my MAs mastectomy.

You just don't think about that stuff while you're in the, in the true middle.

Mm-hmm.

In the throes.

I also am curious, you, I know that you're a toddler mom.

I am also a toddler mom.

How.

How did you, and we talked about balance, how did you balance those things?

Because I feel as moms we are often looked at to be everything to everyone

and it's very hard when you can't be that.

And that's definitely something I've been reckoning with.

So I'd love to hear about your experience

with that.

Yeah, so I have a really supportive partner.

She's wonderful.

She, our daughter was, had just turned one, so she still needed a lot of

physical care that I couldn't provide.

So I did a lot of improvising, I did a lot sideline watching,

like after mastectomy.

You know, we would put pillow, like a pillow for around mama, which is

me and I could be able to physically connect with our daughter in that way.

Or I started wearing different hats.

And, I had to ask, you know, for help for friends, like, can you come.

Help her or help us with her for just a couple hours so we can pick the

Christmas tree down as an example.

That sticks out in my head, but really I, I think I managed it by being resourceful

and luckily I have a wonderful partner that Was able to really step up and help.

She also went to daycare through the day.

And I worked full-time throughout my entire treatment, I was

able to work from home and then she was able to go to daycare.

So it, I mean, it was exhausting.

I don't know how single moms in my shoes do it.

I

don't, I don't know.

I was telling this to someone the other day of I have become a much more

passionate advocate for social services.

And it's sad that I've.

I've had to go through what I've had to go through cuz I, I have all the sport

in the world and if someone didn't have that, their whole world would crumble.

Mm-hmm.

And I totally understand what you mean of my sister came and took my Christmas tree

down for me this year, so as soon as you said Christmas tree, I was like, preach.

Yes.

Mm-hmm.

That's the only way that happened.

And yes, that's not a necessity, but my partner was able to

continue going to work, continue to provide us healthcare and I.

I completely agree.

It just, when you start to imagine not having those things, it is huge.

And again, as a, as a social worker, you have a much more clearer

view into that than I ever could.

Yeah.

I think about how little I.

And I, I'm trying not to go on a soapbox, but I think about how little support

there is for folks who have young kids who battle medical issues that

are physically and mentally limiting.

And I think the short for me, like I was young in the cancer

world and old in the mom world.

Oh, interesting.

So I had her when I was 40, got cancer when I was 41.

So that's, and I don't like this term, but like geriatric.

Oh, I know.

Yeah.

But in the cancer world, they were like, wow, you're really young.

So I was again, in this like middle ground.

I'm an old mom, a young cancer patient, when really I just

wanna do the normal things that I hope I never take for granted.

From here moving forward.

But there is a lot of grief with not being able to physically care

for your kid when they're one.

Like there's change in diapers.

There's,

I'm

tearing up because yes,

pick them up and like they really can't walk.

So there's just so much physical and mental, I don't know.

I think.

Now I'm stuff stammering over it, but I think that I have a lot of

guilt to still work on through that.

Yeah, absolutely.

I actually, I have mentioned this on the podcast before of that, I got sick

around the 18 month mark of my daughter's life, and up until that point I.

Physically was the one she was always attached to.

I breastfed, I did all that stuff.

And then my husband was that physical person and they got a

much closer bond, which is great.

But now I, well, I'll be honest, I'm jealous of it.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah,

because.

I couldn't physically be there for her.

Mm-hmm.

So we don't have as much of a connection now.

Now I'm so glad that she has the connection with my husband that she does.

I do know that she loves me and that kind of stuff, but it's hard.

Yeah.

It's hard and it's hard to not grieve the well, what if I

could have done this and this and this and, and that kind of stuff.

Yeah.

I completely relate to the piece of feeling envy.

About it.

Mm-hmm.

Because my spouse became like the default parent in every aspect.

And yes, I was present.

And then when people say she'll never remember, she, me and my

daughter, I'm like, oh, but I do.

Yeah.

And I think that's some of the anger s sneaking in sometimes,

but it's also just real, like no, she might not remember, but I do.

Yeah.

And I, I feel you on that envy part, and I think that's completely.

Normal, and I'm glad we're given voice to it because there is,

there's a lot of, it's, it is emotionally laborious on all fronts.

It,

it really is.

Yeah.

And again, it's also such a minefield of I am glad I have this partner.

I am glad that my partner and my , my daughter have this relationship.

I am glad for all these things, and it's one of those.

Tough middles, I guess you could say, of having to accept both of these truths at

the same time of I can be glad for these things and sad for myself, and sad for the

thing that I feel like I missed out on.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Absolutely.

First of all, thank you for sharing your story so far.

I just, my heart is very Invested.

I do like to end our conversations with a tangible like piece of advice or action

that either you needed to hear or that you have lived by that has helped you.

So what would that piece of advice

be?

It is not your fault.

But it is your responsibility.

And I learned, and that is not mine.

I learned that from Laura McOwen, who has one of my favorite authors.

She has a list of called The Nine Things and that comes from her book.

We are the Luckiest.

I would encourage folks who were in the middle.

Of anything that you know is health related, addiction related, trauma

related, mental health related, it could be so applicable to so many

things is that it's not your fault, but it is your responsibility.

I like that a lot.

And asking for help is the most responsible thing you can do,

even if you feel like a burden.

Yes.

Yes.

I get side eye from my husband when I'm doing too much of we all

know that you need to ask for help.

Just do it.

Okay.

Easier said than done.

Right.

Way easier said than done.

Absolutely.

Where can people find you?

Listen to your podcast?

What?

Plug away?

Yeah.

All right,

so my podcast is called Living My Breathless Life by h p g.

Could be found anywhere where folks listen to podcast can find me at

according to H P G on Instagram.

And those are the places I'm most easily found.

We talk about a variety of topics on the show, not just cancer.

We talk about all things real life, self-improvement.

We hear stories.

Anything from astrology to.

People talking about their books to the Enneagram.

Any type of self discovery stuff I'm all about.

So yeah,

I love it.

I love it so much.