This week on the Be Epic podcast, Brent sits down with Dr. Sharmila Makhija, the founding dean and CEO of the Alice L. Walton School of Medicine. Dr. Makhija shares her insights and experiences in establishing a medical school from scratch, highlighting the unique opportunity it presents. Listeners will learn about the school's innovative whole-health approach to its MD curriculum and partnerships with the Crystal Bridges Museum of American Art and the Whole Health Institute. Later in the episode Dr. Makhija discusses her background, growing up in a family of educators, and her early passion for medicine. She recounts how her exposure to her grandfather's medical practice in India solidified her desire to become a doctor. Dr. Makhija also shares her journey through medical school and her chosen specialty, highlighting the value of being curious and continuously learning. The episode offers a fascinating glimpse into the challenges and rewards of building a medical school and the personal motivations that drive Dr. Makhija's commitment to healthcare.

We're also going to incorporate a lot of

innovation into the curriculum as well, so that it's not so

much work, but it's at least balanced with understanding how

technology impacts. AI has become a very big part of

healthcare, at least in how we're approaching things. So I

think that we're going to hopefully attract students that

want to take care of patients to the best of their ability, but

also keep up to date with how technology's advancing how we

deliver health care.

Welcome to the Be Epic podcast, brought to you

by the Sam M. Walton College of Business at the University of

Arkansas. I'm your host, Brent Williams. Together, we'll

explore the dynamic landscape of business and uncover the

strategies, insights and stories that drive business today. Today

I have with me Dr. Sharmila Makhija. And Sharmila is the

founding dean and CEO of the Alice L. Walton School of

Medicine. Welcome.

Thank you so much Brent. We're so happy to be

here.

Well, we're glad to have you in Northwest

Arkansas and are excited about what you're leading and can't

wait to talk a little bit more.

Yeah. Happy to talk about it.

So starting a medical school from the ground

up, what an opportunity.

It is. It's really it's one you know a once

in a lifetime opportunity, you don't often find that this kind

of an opportunity, you might see new medical schools popping up.

But usually you have a university that's attached or a

hospital, and we don't have either one. So really, we're

starting it fully from scratch.

Well, excited to see what all you're doing, I

know there's wonderful things happening there that we'll dig

into. But maybe before we do, we should dig into your background

just a little bit. Tell us a little bit about you.

Well, I'm born and raised in Montgomery,

Alabama, my mom still lives there. There's three of us and

the three kids in the family. Both my parents were teachers.

My dad was a college chemistry professor of chemistry. Yep.

What university?

He was at Alabama State University. He

trained he got his PhD at Indiana University.

Okay.

And that was actually the first place mom

lived was in Bloomington, Indiana after they got married.

So I have fond memories of Indiana University, and I grew

up watching Bobby Knight play basketball.

Okay.

The whole story. Yeah, that's right.

That's right. And mom is a retired high school biology

teacher. So family of teachers, education was always an

important part.

I see that science was clearly in the

making for you.

Yes. Yeah. So it was a great upbringing, my,

both my parents made sure that whenever we were, you know,

sitting down for dinner, we sat as a family. And we talked about

what we learned for the day, and how do we make things better for

someone else? So I just grew up with, you know, knowing we're

going to be asked that question. And then fast forward, that's

how I approach things with my own teams.

Is, well is, was the answer to that question

about how you're going to impact others, is that what led you

toward medicine?

You know, I knew early on that I was I

wanted to be a doctor, my, I think it was about nine when I

declared that to my parents. My mom's dad was a doctor and her

brother is a doctor. But I really wanted to go spend time

with my grandparents that were in India to really solidify if

this is what I wanted to do. And, you know, I, I went to

India by myself on a Pan Am flight and spent the summer with

my grandparents. And I would go with him, carry his doctor's bag

and go with him to see patients. And I loved it. I loved every

minute of it. You know, a lot of the patients were lined up in

the hallways, and they would bring their own child or

grandson or granddaughter that spoke English. And so I'd speak

to them and find out what the problem was and report it to my

grandfather and, and I knew that's what I wanted to do.

Well, wonderful. And so tell us a little bit

about maybe your journey getting there through medical school and

then your chosen specialty.

Yes, yeah. So, you know, once I knew that,

that's what I really wanted to do. I volunteered at the

hospital, I really wanted to get exposed to everything there was

as to what a patient endured. I don't know early on I just

wanted to understand that not that you know, I questioned

things it was just more I was curious. And so I volunteered

and then I worked at some of my my parents friends offices and

the outpatient offices and I did some of the billing.

Oh, wow

Front desk things and I think I always just

always either curious or bored so I always wanted to learn

something.

You're too kind, but I really enjoyed it.

And so once I decided I wanted to do that, and I really enjoyed

I would add motivated, actually, to that

it. I went to college, I came back after going to Cornell up

in Ithaca, I came back to UAB for med school. And what's

interesting is I really thought I was going to do either

list.

Okay.

pediatrics or internal medicine, because that's all I was exposed

to. And so I think that's something I always tell my, our

own faculty and students, the more you're exposed to things,

it really broadens your, your insights as to what resonates

with you. And so I back then you had to type out applications

were for residency programs. And I thought, well, I have OB GYN

Yes, yes.

as my last rotation. But surely, I don't think I'm gonna want to

stay up all night delivering babies. I think it's cool. But I

Well, I see, you know, one of the things striking

don't want to do that. And so I sent out all my applications for

internal medicine, thought I would probably do cardiology, or

GI. And so I did the rotation on OB GYN and I enjoyed it. But I

thought, okay, not enough to change anything. And then I did

the GYN section, which is the surgery and I liked it, but not

enough. And then one of my classmates was supposed to do

the GYN oncology rotation. And he got sick. So they asked me to

fill in for him. And GYN oncology is a doctor that does

both the surgery for cancer for women, but also gives

chemotherapy so you take care of the person the whole time.

So I did that and on the first day, I thought,

oh, my gosh, I'm gonna have to redo my application. It just

clicked. And I loved the doctors I worked with, I wanted to be

like them. I loved the patients, even though it seems to be very

sad. And it's cancer. They were very grateful. And we just

worked as a team. So I really, it clicked with me redid, all

the applications. And that's what sent me onto the path of

doing OB GYN and then ultimately, my fellowship and

GYN oncology at Sloan Kettering.

to me in that, is, I could see when you were talking about it,

you're the, the interest in maybe joy and satisfaction and

taking care of that patient throughout that whole process.

That's exactly right. I didn't want my

personality is to not do one piece, and then we're gone. And

everybody's personality is different not to say it's wrong,

if you feel that way. For me, I really want it to be engaged

with the family that met with the husbands I probably talked

more to the husbands than even the patient's themselves,

because they would call saying, she's not able to eat, how can I

help her? So I really learned how to help that family unit get

through the whole, you know, impact of having a diagnosis of

cancer.

Yeah so early on, you were interested in the

whole person.

That's exactly right.

And you know, so

I see where you're going with this.

Yeah, so now, now you find yourself

Yeah,

Leading the Alice L. Walton School of

Medicine. Tell us a little bit about one about the emerging

medical school, and what you're focused on?

Yes. So we are, you know, what, what

brought me here was the fact that we're looking at medicine

the way I feel like I was trained and practice. So we're

looking at how do we take care of the whole person, not just

their illness, but how do we even look at possibly preventing

that illness? So this school is really utilizing a traditional

curriculum, but we're enhancing it with whole health principles.

And because we're sitting on a world class, museum ground, how

do we infuse the arts and humanities into this, but it's

that whole person approach, looking at their mental well,

being social well being, you know, as much as we can

incorporate early on, on how to diagnose it, and how to address

it, I think is very helpful for students to have that skill set.

And this will be one of a kind?

You know, we like to say we're one of a kind,

I think there are many schools that use parts of it. I think

what we're doing differently is we're doing it, immediately

incorporating it into the curriculum. So I'm always

cautious to say one of a kind, but probably.

Okay, alright. Fair enough.

Yes, yeah.

Well, you know, in addition to the School of

Medicine, there's also the Whole Health Institute.

Yes.

And you alluded to Crystal Bridges.

Yes.

The world class Art Museum.

Yes.

Will be connected to on the same

grounds.

Yes.

How will all those fit in?

Yeah, so the Whole Health Institute is a

completely separate organization. We work

complementary to each other, but the Whole Health Institute is

really focused on advocacy, public policy, health care

delivery systems. So how does you know changing from a fee for

service type model, to a value based care model, where you're

looking at the outcomes, and how you're reimbursed for that, and

we want to take some of those principles and put it into the

curriculum, teacher, students, teacher faculty, and then as we

go out onto the healthcare delivery system with hospital

partners, how do we incorporate that in real time? So we're

separate but complementary, and work very closely together with them.

Okay. And what was striking about that, is that

what the Whole Health Institute learns, I'm assuming you can

bring back into the school?

Absolutely. And I think that's where we want

that bridge to happen in real time as much as we can. Because

I think it's important to keep, but what we want is for the

school to keep in touch with what things are happening or

evolving, and apply them as quickly as we can. So I even

imagine the curriculum we have now will evolve, because we want

to be able to, you know, within reason to incorporate those

learnings, because it just helps a soon to be physician learn

those skill sets to apply.

Yeah, and I assume both the School of

Medicine and the Whole Health Institute are able to connect

into various partners, healthcare system partners?

Yeah. And we're exploring all that right

now we're looking at how we work with our local hospital systems.

Because I think that's probably the most important piece. And as

you know, we want to build up our pay our physician population

in the region, I think that's so needed. So working with hospital

partners is going to be key for that.

And one of the, I guess, I think, stated goals

is that, that this school will create more physicians that will

hopefully stay in Northwest Arkansas or Arkansas.

That's right. And what we know is that when a

physician when a student graduates from med school and

goes to for residency program, which is the next, next step

with training in that particular field, they tend to stay in that

region. And so our goal is to increase residency slots

locally. You know, we're working together with our partners,

because that only helps the whole state. So increasing those

residency slots, will likely retain people to stay here and

work. And we need a hospital systems for them to work at. So

I think that as we look at the students that we're graduating,

we gotta look forward as to where they're going to work.

Yeah. Well, as you're, as you're starting to,

and I know you're a little ways away from recruiting students.

But you know, what kind of student do you think is going to

choose the Alice L. Walton School of Medicine?

You know, I think, well, we we are assuming

we're going to attract a lot of students that are interested in

looking at this whole person approach. But we're also going

to incorporate a lot of innovation into the curriculum

as well, we're again exploring how to develop this curriculum.

So that it's not so much work, but it's at least balanced with

understanding how technology impacts, AI is become a very big

part of healthcare, at least in how we're approaching things. So

I think that we're going to hopefully attract students that

want to take care of patients to the best of their ability, but

also keep up to date with how technology is advancing how we

deliver healthcare.

And technology, artificial intelligence,

Yes, yes, it does. I think we're still

particularly, has a tremendous opportunity to have a big

positive impact in healthcare.

learning how that really looks, because you can have almost

sometimes too much information and how do you process it. But I

think that embracing the changes and proactively looking at how

we can incorporate that, whether it's the curriculum or in the

healthcare delivery system, I think that's going to be key on

making us actually a little bit different.

Yeah, well, just the ability one, I guess the

notion that you're going to be constantly on the outlook for

what's changing and bringing that in, in as real time as

possible.

Yes, yeah.

And I know that you have to have a standard

curriculum, but you're gonna be able to enhance it in these

Exactly. That's exactly right. And I

ways.

always say within reason, because we can be very

aspirational, put a lot of things, but we also have to make

it doable, and make it so that we are getting feedback from the

students as well, what's working, what's not, hey, what

are we missing? So we really want this to be, you know, a

very interactive type of curriculum with input that just

keeps on top of the current state.

Yep. Well, I know that, you know, I think

I've heard you say, and this is an MD degree that's enhanced by

whole health and there's core things that are involved in an

MD degree, right?

There's accreditation. So I assume

Yes.

you're working through all of those things.

Yes. In fact, we sent in our big set of

paperwork back in July for the, the program accreditation, which

is called LCME. And they are now going to be reviewing our

paperwork in October. And we will soon find out when our site

visit is which would be anywhere from four to six months after

they decide.

Okay.

So that will be the first, we we consider

this the first hurdle, this will be the next hurdle of getting

through that. And once we get preliminary accreditation, then

we'll be able to recruit students. So we're, we're

predicting that a year from now, if all goes well, we'll be able

to start the recruitment for students to start in the fall of

2025.

Well, congratulations on that hurdle.

And that is a big hurdle.

It's a big hurdle. Yeah. And the team, I

have to say, you know, I'm coming here to speak on behalf

of the team, I just want to say because the team is really quite

spectacular, that just working very hard, as you can imagine.

It's a startup mode feel.

Yeah.

And it's a lot of work.

It is, but I know it will be worth it. I know

we'll have a huge impact. You know, speaking of your, the

students that will come. You know, I heard you say something

you were speaking not too long ago, and I heard you say

something that caught my attention that you were going to

focus some on how those health care professionals will take

care of themselves.

Yeah, yes. So we have, we're looking at

incorporating self care coaching or self coaching for self care.

And, again, working with the Whole Health Institute on

developing that model, we want the students to be able to know

how to take care of themselves. You know, burnout is a big issue

in many fields, especially in health care. And we feel very

strongly that equipping the students with certain skill sets

to be able to take care of themselves, so that they can

take care of others is really the way to look at things. So

that's going to be a very important piece of this is not

only just the teaching of, you know the information, but

learning how to take care of themselves.

Did did you, did you see a marked difference

post-COVID versus pre-COVID in burnout and some of these?

Oh, yes. And I think you know, what I saw and I

was up in New York, when we were first hit, and just developing

new models of care, right, doing a lot of things by telemedicine.

What we saw were that all the health care professionals, from

the nurses, to the doctors, to the support teams, really

stepped up and really came into play to help take care of very

sick patients. But at a cost, you know, a lot of they were

already working very hard. And now we you know, double the

amount of work basically, under duress. I mean, everybody was

nervous about contracting COVID. We didn't know what to expect.

But we did see once we started to the pandemic started to slow

down or resolve. I think it all caught up. And people were that

all the professionals were really exhausted, and really

thought, hey, you know, life is short. How do I do things

better? And how do I take care of myself? So that's where

burnout has become a big topic. And it does come down to do we

have the skill sets? Do we also have the support services, to

help the professionals get through something? Like any kind

of emotional type of distress from a situation. Mental social

well being. Things like that.

Ok,

and, you know, I don't think we've talked yet

Yeah,

about we've mentioned being on the grounds of Crystal Bridges.

And if you're listening and haven't been there, one, you

should go,

Yeah.

but two, when if you've been there, or if you end

up there at some point, you'll just notice the striking beauty

Yeah,

All around.

Yeah.

And and your facilities will be nestled

Yes, we'll be within walking, you know, trail

throughout that.

distance from from the museum. And we feel very important that

because we have the privilege of being on the same grounds, we

want to incorporate the arts to how we, you know, we're

exploring how that looks. But you know, on a simple scale, if

you even go look at a piece of art, you and I might be seeing

the same piece of art but we see something different. So just

even honing in on our skills of how we look at things, how we

diagnose things, how we communicate, what we're seeing,

I think will only help when we're looking at patients that

are ill and you again two doctors are going to look at it

very differently. But the more we can look at things to pick up

on subtleties, I think will only enhance the patient physician

provider relationship.

Such an interesting analogy.

Yes, yes.

What about nature? I think I think that

will be incor- incorporated throughout the building?

Yes, exactly. So the building itself was

designed by Polk Stanley Wilcox. And they really did a beautiful

job of looking at even using natural materials that are from

Arkansas, to build the building. And it's we wanted it to be a

part of the community and the nature piece, we didn't want it

to be just standing up there very, very distinct. We wanted

it to be so that it was inviting to everyone. So there will be a

community pond, a reflection pool, you can even walk up to

the very top of the roof because there will be a rooftop garden

amphitheater, so we wanted our students to be able to also

learn in a very natural environment. But we also wanted

our community to be able to come in, not be afraid of it, we

wanted it to be very inviting. And there are studies that show

when you are studying amongst nature, or you're taking walks

and things like that, it improves the way you learn. So I

think it was done in a very mindful way, of course, from

our, our incredible founder, Alice Walton really felt this

was important to have. And so it's really quite spectacular.

Yeah, well, I know it will be absolutely

beautiful. It will be quite unique in itself for a medical

school, I guess, to be incorporated, not only in

nature. But

Yes,

I'm sure there's not another one that's right

next to a museum.

That's right, not that I've seen, and that

we'll have some of the artwork from the museum as well in the

area. So I think it's going to be the building itself will be

really kind of fun. And inside the building will have all the

state of the art technology simulation centers, and anatomy

labs that are really more cutting edge. I think it's

really going to be a quite a spectacular learning environment

inside and outside.

You know, when we were talking about your

purpose, and the why and creating the medical school, and

a significant part of that purpose being that we would

create more physicians that would stay in Arkansas, I think

there's other opportunities for impact. And we were talking

That's right. That's right.

Lots of ways for this for the School of Medicine and Whole

Health Institute,

right

to positively impact Arkansas.

That's right. And, you know, our mission is to

bridge health for everyone. And so we really, we're looking at,

if if we even just get to the to the data, Arkansas is ranked 48

out of 50, when it looks when we look at health outcomes 50 out

of 50 for maternal health. And when we look at that, that's

really the driving force to how we create our curriculum, how we

work with Whole Health Institute, we really want to

impact patient outcomes. And in order to do that we have to work

together and we have to not compete against each other, but

really work at enhancing how do we develop a care delivery

system that delivers on health outcomes for community, rather

than just volume base? Looking at how many patients you see,

are we impacting the health of a community?

Absolutely,

Yes. Yeah.

Well you know, I noticed something that I think

is a little bit unusual in your background, not, you know, I

mean you find it, but you don't find it all that often. So

you're a physician with an MBA?

Yeah, yeah.

And of course, being the dean of a business

school that caught my attention.

Sure, sure.

You know, so you're already practicing. I

think you're practicing at Emory and

Yeah,

you chose to get an MBA

Yeah.

Why, why did you make that choice?

You know, it's funny, my whole career, I really

focused on translational research. And I was very happy

with the fact that I tried to understand both languages, the

basic science and the clinicians. And I always was

trying to bridge that understanding. And then I went

on to Emory to be a division chief and GYN oncology. And it

was 2008. And the financial crisis happened, right? And then

Now you are leading an organization.

I was approached by the team saying, hey, you know, the

endowment's is cut in half because I was brought in to help

build up the cancer program. And I said, well, how am I supposed

to do this with half the money? And I realized I didn't

understand their language. They didn't understand my language.

And I thought, well, let me just go next door and see if I can,

you know, maybe just take an accounting class and then they

convinced me why don't you do a business degree. It was not easy

to do, regardless. But it was I loved it. I loved every minute

of it because I thought the teachers were just incredible.

And what I quickly learned is that as much as I thought

finance and accounting was the key, the key languages, I had an

incredible professor who was a professor of organizational

behavior. And it just clicked with me because in medicine, we

think we work on teams, and we sort of work on teams. But to

make impactful changes, you have to have a different team

dynamic, where the lead professor or the lead clinician

isn't necessarily the one who knows the most amount of

information or what should be done. And so that really changed

things for me and learning how we design our teams and how we

work together, how we have to help bring the teams up to

another level. And that was really something that was

unexpected. I didn't think that's what I would learn from

from business school. But it really it's carried me

throughout. And that's how I mentor everyone who thinks they

just need those three letters to get to the next level. I always

caution them, tell me what you want to learn from this and gain

from it. Forget about the degree but what do you really want to

learn? And that I think changed really the direction of my

career because soon after that, I was asked to come look at the

chair position at Louisville where I'd been a resident and

then fast forward, here we are so.

Right, right, right.

You know what I've seen you already start to

put that into practice as you're building your team or reached

out to us about

Yes,

how you're going to how we can help with team and

leadership skills.

Absolutely.

You know, and maybe I'll ask you as, as you're

building out a team and recruiting a team, recruiting

faculty. What is, how do you characterize your own leadership

style?

You know, I, I've had all those tests done

and try to confirm who I think I am. I think I am a collaborative

type leader. And I have confirmation that I am.

You have the paper.

I have the paper. But you know, I think in

any type of leadership role, you have to be able to go in and out

different styles depending on the situation. So I, I am pretty

good about being observant and seeing how, again, we can be

saying the same thing, but everybody's gonna take in what

they want, or they can absorb. So you have to be able to

communicate differently to different groups, even to each

individual. So I do I do think I'm able to pivot not perfect,

I'm not the best at it. But I'm always trying to learn how to be

better at making sure what I'm saying is being understood, are

we working together? So I do flip in and out of different

styles sometimes.

It's an agile style of leadership, but I'm

sure, you're in startup mode,

We are,

And that's probably particularly important.

Yes, because you know, I'm coming from

traditional places. We don't have traditional ground rules,

and we have to be able to move and, and even when we're

recruiting I have, I'm very clear in saying if you want

something that's really set, this might be frustrating for you.

Yeah,

Because we have to be able to move along

and you have to be able to be flexible. And sometimes we have

to work late hours or the weekends, and sometimes we'll

have off so we have to be able to maneuver through those

differences so.

Well, if you're, you know, working to try to

build a team with an innovative mindset that's going to build

something unique.

Yeah.

Then I mean I think being in Bentonville is a

great place to be I feel like it just encourages that innovative thinking.

I think so too. I mean, it's really it's

just an incredible place to be. And I have a lot of friends.

Yeah, I left New York City. And I was born and raised in

Alabama. So when I came and even interviewed for this position

landing at the airport, it felt like home because it felt like

Montgomery. And I think the people are so like, not only

kind they're kind and generous and intelligent and helpful. And

so it's a really great community. I I feel like it

makes our other work easier. Because we're not struggling to

get through all the other pieces, you know, of egos or

everybody wants to help each other. So I really enjoy that piece.

I enjoy that about this community as well.

Yes, yeah.

I mean you know you find easy connectivity,

Yes.

And you know, you mentioned being a

collaborative leader and this is a collaborative place.

It really is. I mean, it's, you know, I just

Well, let me maybe close with with this

saw that recent Wall Street Journal article, all my friends

were sending this to me about you know, focusing on this gem

question. So, you know, I always end with something focused on

that we have in the Ozarks. And they're all curious now they're

like, well, so you haven't been calling us and you haven't come

back to New York to visit. I said I don't have a need to I'm

our students. And, you know, we have about 8,000, between 8,500

having a great time here. So they're all coming to visit now.

And it's really nice. It's really nice. Yes, yes.

and 9,000 students in the College of Business, probably

about 8,000 of those are undergraduate students.

So if you can put yourself back in the shoes

Okay, okay.

of that 21, 22 year old, really about to enter the workforce in

full time, at least for probably the first time.

Yes.

And knowing what you now know about whole health.

What advice would you give? Because I think it's probably

going to apply to me just like it does them.

I think we can all take in more advice, right.

So I have a niece who's actually a second year, a sophomore in

college. And so I talked to her quite often. And it's, it's

because I'm always trying to understand where what's her

Well, I was just about to use that word. I think, you know,

point of view, how she's dealing with college? And my advice

would be that always remain curious. And the whole health

piece it starts early on, and taking care of yourself, so you

can take care of others. Whether or not it's your friends, or

your colleagues, or going out into the workforce, knowing how

to really look inwardly, what do you need, take care of yourself,

you're going to be better equipped of moving forward and

helping the community. And I think that's just being curious

as to how that changes. Because what you are 20 will be

different when you're 30. Being in tune and being curious about

it and always learning. I think those are a lot of things that

I, I still do of just even when moving here, right. It's a

lifelong learner.

different change for me. And just understanding what what I

need and learning about what I need. I think it's a lifelong habits.

Yes.

You know, you're someone that has been agile

throughout their career and just a curiosity.

Yes.

So I'm so excited that you've brought all

of those characteristics to Northwest Arkansas, and can't

wait to see the impact that you're gonna have through the

Alice L. Walton School of Medicine.

Well, thank you so much. And I look forward

to working with you and your teams to helping our our faculty

grow as leaders. I think we have a gem having you and your school

here. So thank you for that.

On behalf of the Walton College thank you for

joining us for this captivating conversation. To stay connected

and never miss an episode, simply search for Be Epic on

your preferred podcast service.