Chuck Runyon, the CEO at Self Esteem Brands including the wildly popular Anytime Fitness, covers ROEI vs ROI, the 4 P's of work, finding your purpose, the business lesson of It's a Wonderful Life, the balance of work and play, and why Anytime spends the big bucks as a company on tattoos.

Chuck Runyon is the CEO at Self Esteem Brands, which is

includes Anytime Fitness and also Waxing the City. And he and

his business partner Dave Mortensen, co founded Anytime

Fitness is just been an incredible, incredible success

story, and they got a new book called LoveWork inspire a high

performing work culture at the center of people, purpose,

profits and play. So Chuck, welcome to the show.

Thanks for having me.

How in the world, wasn't Anytime Fitness, like the

fastest growing gym for like, 10 straight years or something?

It was. And I want to take people back a little bit

to this pre digital era, right? We were launching this in like,

late 2001 2002 and in fact, we launched our first Anytime

Fitness before the first iPod. So there were no smartphone. Was

any Facebook. And so there was, you know, this idea of having a

key fob that would open up every gym door in the world, right?

Was just unheard of. And also, people do it and they go to work

because of lack of service, or they might have some safety

concerns, and so we really created the category of these

type of clubs. They just didn't exist prior to Anytime Fitness.

And you know, I think, like most entrepreneurs, they have that

story where, you know, people would tell them this idea is not

going to work, and it was no different for us. I mean,

friends, family, industry experts said this idea will

never work, and that's always a reminder for any of the

listeners out there that you know that every idea seems crazy

until you prove that it works, and now it suddenly seems pretty

common. So but we, you know, we, we stayed steadfast, hoping the

idea would work. We weren't 100% certain, and we applied

ourselves. We created this concept. We launched our first

gym in May of 2002 in Cambridge, Minnesota. And then the first

couple years, I mean, we're just scratching and clawing to grow

this, you know, and we started to really reach some, some

acceleration there in 2005 and then the it just really took

off. And from 2005 really, till now. And it's number one, it's a

testament to the business model. But then number two, the fitness

industry has had tremendous growth too, so we're also riding

some of those tailwinds.

Yeah. So for people that don't know, I mean Anytime

Fitness, I think you know, most people kind of get from the

name, oh, it's 24 hours, like, highlight some of the other

unique points. So like, what kind of what you're talking

about here with the key fob?

Yeah, so for members, right, prior to Anytime

Fitness, you'd have to drive a little bit farther to a

neighborhood club, and you could only use it during the hours of,

say, 5am to like 10pm or 11pm and but with any time we brought

it closer to your home or work, because we're in a typical strip

center that you might find with your drive through or your dry

cleaners, your subways, your grocery stores, and so we're

very conveniently located, but also you can access our stores,

24/7, 365, and so you can come in anytime you want. It's

typically about five to 6000 square feet, so they're a little

bit smaller than a big fitness club, yet, so they create a

little bit more comfort and intimacy. Yet you you get all

the programming and equipment you'd find in a big club. And so

that mixture of convenience and connectivity and being part of

the community, you know, really appeals to our members. So that

was, from a member perspective, very convenient, but from an

owner perspective, it was such a simple model, because you didn't

always have to be there and the club still operated, so your

payroll costs would be lower. You'd have less headache of

having to manage so many people in comparison other franchise

opportunities. And you know, we gave our elders some freedom on

offering things like personal training or yoga or some things

they were passionate about. So it really appealed to both our

franchisee as a consumer as well as our members as our consumer.

You have such a clear culture, yet you gave

franchisees some flexibility in terms of what you allowed them

to offer.

We did, and you know that is, we're trying to

always balance standardization in the franchise so that every

club looked and felt the same, but yet we wanted to, like,

amplify the community, passion and personality of our owners.

And that's, by the way, not always easy to do, and when done

right. I mean, it's wonderful for the community and for our

franchise owners. When it's done wrong, we have to fix those

inconsistencies, and, you know, the experience nationally, but

yeah, I mean, we look at Dave and I as entrepreneurs are

always fighting for our franchise owners, and in a

typical franchise system, I mean, you get no decision. You

know, Whatsoever you have to run the playbook, you know,

absolutely airtight. And you know, because someone signs a

check to us, and it's a big part of their life savings. Dave and

I want to give them a little bit more autonomy with any time

fitness they're going to have in another brand. And so we've

always kind of encouraged them to bring a little bit of

personality. If there's something they're passionate

about locally, whether it's a type of fitness class or, let's

say, a charitable cause, they can get behind that to do things

locally, and so it doesn't have to be standardized across the

country. A couple of things people are fascinated by that.

If you came to our global headquarters here in Minnesota,

I think we're the only corporate campus I know of that has a full

time tattoo room here in our corporate headquarters. And over

the course of the last 15 years, I'm gonna guess that we've spent

over a half a million dollars on tattoos, because we've had over

3000 people get them, and we either pay for them or reimburse

for them. And so the average tattoo is at least 100 to $200

and so someone will send us a photo. They tell us a reason why

they're getting this, any you know, Running Man tattoo, and

they can personalize it anyway they want. And so we collect

these stories, and it's always about some personal

transformation they've made in their life, or they've helped

someone make they've empowered someone to live a better life.

And so it always comes back to that, you know, that purpose

driven benefit that we've given someone or given ourselves. And

so it's, it's far be bigger than just treadmills. Me open 24

hours. I mean, this is really about changing lives.

So how in the world do you justify reimbursing 3,000 people

for a tattoo is driving profit?

You know, thankfully, I wasn't very good

at the finance part of this growing up. I don't know. I

mean, it don't, don't get me wrong. We have business optics

on this that we have to, we have to measure. But we also use a

term here called R, o, e, i, which is return, unemotional

investment. And I just believe that a business can do more than

just make money. And so I don't really know how to measure it,

other than the fact that, man, it's like currency for the soul,

right? I mean, not everything important can be measured. And

so, you know, I just know that we've literally changed a

person's life. We've changed 10s or hundreds of 1000s of people's

lives, and we may never know that impact, but when our

franchise owners put their head to their pillow at night and

they go to sleep, man, it just it feels good to know that you

stand for something that is meaningful in that community at

a time when, unfortunately, the world's getting to an

unhealthier place. You know, our values are that, hey, we're

going to help people like get to their best selves. It may start

with fitness and they start with coaching. May start with

empathy, but, and I guess that's just tough to measure, other

than you know that it's, it's currency for the soul. It's the

only way I can really, really state it. You know that return

on emotional investment, and yet you guys are crushing it. Yeah,

we will surpass 4000 units in 33 countries, operating in 17

different languages, on five continents. And I think we're

one of only maybe 15 franchise brands to ever do that, and no

one's done it in that amount of that speed, right that amount of

time. So we've probably likely done something no other

franchise brand has ever done before.

So let's talk about profit, since we're since we're

on that because so the book is called LoveWork. It's written

about a culture, and then you've got these four P's, people

purpose, profits and play. So what is your philosophy towards profits?

I mean, look, it is the financial life blood of a

business. And this was written specifically for those who are

involved in a small to medium sized business. And make no

mistake, you have to have financial profits in your

business as why we work and the four P's are a formula that has

to be linked together. But we make very clear in the book that

if you take out profits, the other three cannot sustain

themselves, right where, if you take out, say, purpose, you can

still have a sustainable company with, like, people, profits and

play. But I mean, again, you have to make money in a

business. And by the way, when you're making money that

provides opportunities for your team, you can reinvest in them,

and you can change more lives which has more purpose and play.

So, you know, financial, I mean, you have to, you have to

perform, you have to make money. And so we talk about that, and

you know, some of the and by the way, the book, I hope, like,

when people read it, they get a sense of empathy for just how

tough it is, and how much we admire those who who own their

own business. And it tells us some, really, some stories about

how we made mistakes, about when we were a smaller business, we

just weren't very good at strategic planning. We weren't

very good at budgeting, and we weren't very focused in how we

apply our resources. And I can tell you if, after doing this

now for 20 years and working with small businesses, most

small small businesses are not very good at strategic planning.

They're just not very rigorous or disciplined in their

financial planning. And if I could go back in time, I wish I

can do that. So this book walks you through some of that, and

specifically how to do some of that for as being a small to

medium sized business and but, but make no mistake. I mean

this, you have to make money, you have to show profits to have

a growing, successful business. And so, you know, that is the

lens we operate from. We also talked about the currency

lifestyle, but you know, a lot of it focused on knowing your

numbers, knowing your strategy, and making sure. Or that your

business is improving and growing.

So talk to me about purpose. How does the company

find its purpose, or where does that come from? Or how do you

bring that about?

Yeah, so in the book, we talk about like, you

know, what if you sell widgets, right? What if you're not in the

fitness space like we are, we give you some tips on how to

find your purpose and how to elevate it within your company,

amongst all of your stakeholders. So we're very

explicit in that. But I got to tell you, you know, I remember,

I've been in the fitness industry beyond almost 30 years

now, and in my early years, I didn't use purpose, I didn't

really understand how it would move people, how it would

amplify their performance. And then I learned it with Anytime

Fitness and the books, they'll give you some moments on when,

like, I had this epiphany, and I started to see the difference on

how it, like, really deeply stirs people from the inside,

and like, you know, takes them to another level when it comes

to, you know, working a little bit harder, asking an extra

question. I mean, going the extra mile on behalf of the

consumer. And so, you know, if you think just in basic terms

of, you know, IQ, you know, using your head, and then what I

like to call heart power and brain power. Yeah, you've

combined those two. And so I really want to make sure that

our team has their hearts into this initiative, not just a

brain into this initiative. And when they put those two things

together, I'm telling you, it really amplifies performance of

a team of individuals and and I can just see it in their eyes.

And so, you know, in the facts are right, millennials

specifically, would rather work for a company they believe in

and earn less than work for a company they don't believe in

and work more. In our industry employs a considerable amount of

millennials, so it's important to them that they have values

and they can align with what the company stands for, and so and

but I actually said, I think this is every generations now is

kind of aligning to that. But if you do employ millennials, I

mean, they care about more about purpose than maybe previous

generations. And so to me, it just comes on performance. So

it's, there's like, I call it the economics of purpose. It's,

you know, people, I mean, they will get out of they would jump

out of bed on a Monday morning ready to tackle that problem

because they believe in the mission. They believe in what

the company stands for, and as if it's combining your heart

power

What are some things as the leader that you think you

guys do that helps sort of cultivate that sense of purpose?

Yeah, one of my favorite movies is It's a

Wonderful Life with George Bailey, and we talk, you know,

George Bailey, if you remember, gets a chance to see what would

have happened if he was had never been born? Right? How

would his town and the people around him been impacted? And so

we use that as one of the examples in the book is, what if

your company had never existed? Right? Who would be impacted,

whether it be providing jobs to some of your employees, or

whether it's the value of your products and services and how

they're making your met your consumers lives better. And so

start with, if our business didn't exist, who would be

impacted? And then once you start to see, hey, look, yeah,

we are doing something that provides value to people. Now

you've got to find a way to tell that story. And so we do that in

our internal meetings. We actually invest in some videos

to, you know, share how we've impacted our franchise owners,

impacted our members. And so, you know, I think a CEO has to

be, in part, a storyteller of how the brand impacts the world,

right, how, with the service and product we provide, how it

enriches people's lives. And so we just frequently do that in

various forms of medium, whether it is, you know, written,

whether it's oral storytelling at our meetings, at all staff

events and at our annual conferences, that's the

signature moment when we invest in some very nice creative

videos to explain that, hey, we do more than just make money. We

actually impact people in profound ways. And so once you

find out how you do it, now you gotta invest in some

storytelling. It's so easy to identify with a cause. I mean,

that's another thing, if you just make something like

shoelaces, right? It doesn't seem like it's that romantic or

that that sexy or life changing. But guess what? Any company can

go out there and find the cause to identify with. There are so

many, you know, big or micro causes in your community. Find

one. You know, you can have your company devote a little bit of

time, a little bit of resource, a little bit of money, host some

fundraising events, you know, galvanize your team around a

cause. I mean, that's another idea here in the book. It does

not have to be a direct link, like we are to health. You know,

if you make something that's a bit more obscure, there's still

no excuse why you can't infuse some purpose into your company

by saying, hey, that's what we stand for, and we want to help

this, you know, this cause or this group of people.

Not to suggest that those of you that are in the shoelace

making business aren't important. You're saying that

this, this storytelling, that's one of the most important roles

of like, you know, the CEO.

I really do, the CEO has to be the one, or, you

know, the senior leadership team. It's about Look, here's

what the values of our organization, here's what we

stand for, here's the impact that we have. And in our

strategic meetings, I mean, we will mix some of these purpose

stories to say, look, if we do X, we will get y, like, we'll

get the financial return. But let's also talk about the you

know, what's going to happen to the frantic center? What's going

to happen to our employees, what's going to happen to our

members. We talk in, sometimes the emotional. And sometimes in

what's very difficult to measure, we talk about that

because, again, our team cares about more than just reporting a

profit. And so yes, I do think it's important to get buy in.

It's got to be top down. And I think the CEO has to mention it

in, whether it's a State of the Union to the team, whether it's,

you know, to the network, but I think it has to be part of the

storytelling that goes on frequently, and I even do it in

social media, whether it is through Twitter or through

Instagram or through our internal dashboards. I mean, I'm

always trying to put out there. You know, here's what we do,

here's what we stand for, and here's how we're going to

improve people's lives.

Let's talk about play. You got people purpose, profits and

play, and you're you. You got play as a centerpiece of your

culture. Talk to me about the balance of work and play.

I think it is a balance. I think it's the one

big aspect that most leaders really struggle with, because

they've, you know, they're serious, right? They want to get

serious work done. And so in the book, we talk about there is

science behind play in the workplace and how it fosters

collaboration and creativity and alleviate stress. And we use

terms like, let's take the work seriously without taking

ourselves seriously, and that makes us more approachable,

which gives us better relationships with our with our

franchisees. But you know, even in our meetings, right? We can

be kind of playful, which allows us to to be, you know, to be

vulnerable and like put up ideas on the wall that may or may not

work or seem foolish, but that may lead to another idea. The

simple fact is this, we spend over half our waking hours at

work. We do this more than we sleep. We spend more time here

than we do with our friends and family. And I just think we

should have a little bit more fun. It doesn't mean we don't

take the work seriously. But you know, seven out of 10 people

drive to work like disenchanted with what they're doing. They're

emotionally neutral, or they hate their work. That's

according to Gallup, and that has not moved in like, 20 years.

Seven out of 10 people hate their work. I'm like that to me,

seems like a miserable existence. I want to drive to

work something I'm going to devote over half my waking hours

to at something I enjoy, with people enjoying something I

stand for, and so I gotta have fun. And you know, I'm telling

you, there is you can there's a science behind it. It is another

one of the four P's that just elevates your team's

performance. And I know leaders have a tough time like embracing

it, but if, but if you read the book, it has ideas in there,

it's got tips in there, it's got some stories there, and it has

the data and science to show that play in the workplace makes

sense.

Alright, I have one more question for you. So before

that, where do you, where should people go, Chuck, if they want

to connect with you, or, you know, learn about the book, or whatever.

They can get the book on Amazon. It is just

simply LoveWork. One word, by Chuck Runyon and Dave Mortensen.

Awesome. Well, the last thing, if somebody is listening,

let's say they are a medium sized business owner, a big

business owner, even small business owner or whatever.

What's the very first thing you would tell them, the first thing

you can do that will start to move the needle on restoring the

health of your culture.

Be very transparent, be very vulnerable,

and get your team like just simply go sit with them, asking

questions. Say, Hey, I would love to improve the workplace

culture here. I think we all would, right. We all want a

better place to work. How can we do that? I mean, just your team

is eager to give great ideas and to give perspectives, and they

want a great workplace environment too. They really do.

And so this is not just all dependent on the leader, right?

Just simply go to them and say, I don't have all the answers,

but let's make a goal here in the next year to have a great

workplace environment. That is that's all about high

performance, but can also be about more. It can be, we can

have some fun along the way, and we can, we can impact some

people. How can we do that together? So I think if you

really bring the team in, and they all buy in, and they can

all weigh in, man, you get you suddenly got the whole team

aligned to like making this a great place.

Chuck Runyon, Chuck man, thanks for being an innovator

and for advancing the currency of the soul. I really appreciate

it, man.

Been a pleasure. Thank you very much.