Transcripts
Welcome to Animal Posse, the podcast dedicated to the
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people and rescues making a
difference in the lives of animals.
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Today I am joined by a very special
guest, Fiona Murphy, a rabbit
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bonding specialist who helps turn
fluffy roommates into best friends.
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We're diving into the art and
occasional chaos of bunny bonding.
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So whether you're a rabbit parent
or you just love a good animal
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story, you're in the right place.
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So let's get into it.
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Hi Fiona
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Thank you for coming on the show.
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This is very exciting for me because
you are my first international guest,
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Fiona: The internet makes the
the world very small, doesn't it?
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Dixie: It sure does.
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Yeah.
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So you were recommended- Sure ... by
another guest of ours, Maria, who came on
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and she was talking about rabbits 'cause
she does a lot of rabbit and bunny rescue.
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Okay.
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Yeah, so she did recommend you,
and I see- Oh, lovely ... that you
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are a rabbit bonding specialist.
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So I am interested- Yeah ... in
hearing all about that.
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Okay ... from my take on rabbits,
I've had a couple of rabbit guests
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come on already, and they talked about
the importance of bonding bunnies.
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And for me, I never- Yeah ... knew that.
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I always kinda thought that if you
got a single bunny, you would be okay.
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And, all these guests that I've had
on are- ... always telling people,
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"No, bunnies are very social animals,
and they should have a companion."
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And- Yes ... so they always talk about
bonding bunnies, but I really have no
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idea what's involved with bonding a bunny.
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So I would definitely- Okay.
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Okay ... like to talk about that.
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So how did you get into it, first of all?
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Great.
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Fiona: So I've been doing rabbit
boarding since 2014 when we couldn't
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find somebody to look after our
bunnies when we went on holidays.
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We had a good few bunnies at that
stage, and I started offering holiday
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boarding 'cause I figured if I had
this problem, other people must
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have this problem, and they did.
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And then in 2016, one of my
customers came to me and said would
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I help them bond their bunnies.
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They were really desperate, and
their bunnies were living separate.
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They were living in an apartment, and
they couldn't get them to stop fighting,
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and they wanted them to live together.
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They got the second rabbit so the
first one would have a friend, but
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they couldn't get them to be friends,
and it wasn't a sustainable situation.
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They were gonna have to rehome
one of the bunnies if they weren't
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able to get them to be friends.
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So I said, "Look, I know the
theory of it, but I've never
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actually done it in practice.
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If you want me to try, I will."
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And I did, and it worked, and
I've been doing it ever since.
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So I started bonding here mostly
for my customers and other people.
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I think I'm the only rabbit
bonder in Ireland, actually.
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So people travel from all over Ireland
to come to me, and then over COVID
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then I had people starting to ring me
looking for help because they had got
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a second rabbit while they were on
lockdown thinking that the bunny needed
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com-company before they went back to
work, and the rabbits were fighting.
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So I started offering advice on the
phone, and then it became Zoom because
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we were in COVID and people heard about
me in different countries, and now I
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help people all over the world because,
like I was just saying, the internet is
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a small place, so it's great to be able
to help people no matter where they are.
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I've helped people in Australia,
America, Canada, the Seychelles, Israel
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Dubai, loads of different places.
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Dixie: Wow, that's amazing.
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How many bunnies or
clients have you helped?
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Fiona: So I have bonded over 290
sets myself, and I've lost count
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of people I've helped, but I'm
thinking it's around 250 probably.
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So over 500 altogether between the
ones I've done in person and the ones
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that I've done helping people online.
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So I really love it because ironically,
yes, they should be kept in pairs,
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but they quite often go into fight
mode when they meet each other.
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They're super territorial and it's a shock
to people's system because the rabbits
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look so cute and fluffy, and next thing
they're tearing fluff out of each other
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and they're injuring each other, and if
you're not very careful, they can really
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do really bad damage to each other.
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Sometimes they're fighting out of fear,
sometimes they're aggressive because
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they've come from a rescue situation and
they don't trust anybody or anything.
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Sometimes they're just trying to figure
out who is the boss because their
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hierarchy is so important to them.
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You need one to be dominant and one
to be submissive in a pair in order
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for it to work, or two rabbits that
really don't care that much and
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they're happy enough just muddling
along, sharing and being happy.
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But if you have two that go in as being
dominant or think that they're going
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to be dominant at the start, that's
when the fights can happen and people
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end up with injuries, and I've done
a lot of rebonding where rabbits have
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been together as babies and then the
hormones kick in and then they fall out.
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So people get two babies thinking,
"That's great, I'll have two babies
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forever and they can stay together
forever," and then they're really
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surprised then when the rabbits fall
out because people don't tell them that.
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They just sell two babies together.
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And the females nearly always
fall out, but the boys 99.99%.
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And it comes out of nowhere sometimes,
and they're cuddling and snuggling
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one day and then the next they're
tearing lumps out of each other.
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So a lot of what I do is rebonding in that
situation, or people who've tried to bond
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and the rabbits have injured each other
and they've got this grudge they need to
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get over as well, because they're like
elephants, they don't forget very easily.
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Dixie: When you're talking about
bonding them, is there ever a situation
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where they will not rebond or where
you cannot bond a pair of bunnies?
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Fiona: It's very unlikely.
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I think there's a lot of narrative
online that this is the way to bond
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rabbits and if this doesn't work,
then your rabbits aren't bondable.
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Whereas I'm very much about a holistic
approach, I suppose you could say,
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a tailor-made situation for every
pair of rabbits because the rabbits
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are very sensitive and they have
big personalities and they're quite
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complex, and people who don't have
rabbits don't tend to understand that.
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And They have big emotions sometimes
and they can come into a situation,
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from a rescue for example, and they
could have been abused or neglected
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and or, straying and just dumped.
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And they bring all that into the
bonding pen with them as well.
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So it's a really a case of tailor
making your plan to the rabbits
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that you have in front of them.
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And then most of the time it
is absolutely possible to bond.
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I don't believe that most
rabbits can't be bonded.
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I do believe they can be bonded.
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The few that I haven't had success with
have been through really traumatic things.
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They've been, really been through a
horrific time before they were adopted.
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There was one where it was rescued
from the mouth of a coyote.
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There was another one that had
been living in like this outdoor
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area with lots of different bunnies
that were just constantly fighting.
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And sometimes they're just too traumatized
to ever really trust other bunnies.
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But even with that, I still think
probably eventually if they found the
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right rabbit, they could become friends.
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But you have to draw the line
at some point and not put them
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through it , if it's too stressful
for them and it's not working.
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It's not fair to put
them through the stress.
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But generally speaking, you can do it in
as stress-free way as possible, and it
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works as long as you find the right method
and you just keep trying different things
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till you find the right thing that works.
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Dixie: And you're 100% self-taught,?
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Fiona: Yes.
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Yes, exactly.
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Yes.
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So- Yeah, so just-
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Dixie: How did you go about finding
the information that worked for you?
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Fiona: I just did an awful lot
of Googling really, and reading
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up as much as I possibly could.
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There is some really good information
on the internet, but the problem is
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that a lot of it is conflicting now.
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And there's very few people doing what I
do that have the experience that I have.
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And so people look at it and go,
"Okay, this is conflicting and I
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just don't know w- who to listen to."
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And of course then every rabbit is
different and every bond is different,
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so that can be very confusing as well
because you can go onto a Facebook
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group and ask for advice or Google
and, somebody can say, "Oh, yes,
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this is how you bond your rabbits."
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But the reality of it is that a lot
of people are, have never bonded or
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have only bonded one or two bonds, and
that's great, but- it can come across
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as they've bonded a lot of rabbits and
then people think that it should work
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and then they get very discouraged.
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So I did an awful lot of research and
I still do a lot of research and I find
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good resources and listen to good re-
resources and other people who have
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experience, like people in rescues.
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And I think we're always honing our craft,
so to speak, because sometimes you come
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up a situation that you've never come
up against before or a personality trait
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or an experience that a rabbit has had.
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I've bonded rabbits that are blind,
rabbits that are deaf, rabbits that
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have three legs, rabbits that have
ripped each other's ears out, one that
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was left with a limp after a fight so
badly and still managed to bond them.
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So it's really just a case of finding
what works for them, but it's a challenge
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if you find a situation like that.
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And then you learn something from it
because the rabbits teach you something.
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It's amazing.
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Dixie: Yeah, that's incredible.
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And, just for people that are getting into
rabbits and, they might see a cute bunny
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in the pet store or something like that.
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And of course, there's- always
the problem with Easter, with
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everybody wanting a bunny.
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Yes.
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And I- That's right ... I don't think
people that are new to rabbits really
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realize that they fight, 'cause they- Yes
... like you said, they- Yes ... are such like
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a cute, docile looking little creature.
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Yes.
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And they can do some serious-
Yeah ... damage to - to each other.
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And I would imagine it's- ... it's from
their teeth and probably their back feet,
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? Fiona: Yes, their teeth and their nails.
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Absolutely, yes.
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And they behave very differently
with other rabbits than
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they do with us as well.
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And you can have a really sweet rabbit
who's just loves their humans and is
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really gentle and affectionate with their
humans, but you put them in a pen with
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another rabbit and all hell breaks loose.
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So yeah, it's an awful shock to
people and I wish there was more
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streamlined information out there
so that people would realize what's
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normal and what's not normal.
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Because a lot of people come to me
when the rabbits have fought straight
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away and then they think that's it.
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They're not bondable."
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And I'm like, "I don't believe that.
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I think we just need to find the
right thing and let's keep trying,"
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and we usually get there in the end.
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So the narrative definitely needs to
change out there and I'm working on that.
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Dixie: You said you take
a holistic approach.
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What do you mean by that?
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Fiona: So I, I tailor make the
process and the setup and the
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environment and the timing to
work for those particular rabbits.
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There's a lot of variables in bonding.
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So basically, to explain it a little bit,
it's like a dating process, so you have
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to allow the rabbits to get to know each
other and to trust each other and work
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out their hierarchy, who's boss, and then
they fall in love then after that, and
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then they'll start grooming and snuggling.
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But there's a lot of things to go through
before you actually get to that stage.
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Sometimes when you put them
together, they fight straight away.
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Sometimes one rabbit is trying to
mount the other rabbit and the other
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rabbit doesn't want it, and so they
nip and they bite, but that's one of
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the ways they work out their hierarchy.
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But the problem is that if you step in
too early because you don't want them to
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hurt each other, which a lot of people do,
completely understandably 'cause they're
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their fur babies, they don't want them
to get hurt, but then they can't work out
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their hierarchy because you're stopping
them interacting and figuring that out.
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And if you step in too late,
then you risk an injury.
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So there's a very fine line as to exactly
when to step in, and you have to learn
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to read their body language and their
behaviors, and it's something that just
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having done as many bonds as I have now,
that I'm able to pick up fairly quickly.
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And then I can see whether something
is working for the rabbits or not.
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So for example, you're supposed
to start in a small space and
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then gradually expand it, but that
doesn't always work for all rabbits.
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Sometimes they need a bigger space to
get away from each other a little bit.
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Some people would say you should put
things into the pen, like somewhere,
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a hut for them to hide in, but that
doesn't always work because sometimes
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. they need to be able to
get away from each other.
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Sometimes that hinges the process
because they just sit in the hut
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and are territorial over the hut.
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There can be different things
that you can put in the pen.
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Some people say just put hay in
the pen and anything else can,
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they can be territorial over.
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But then you can also put in
pellets and treats and forage
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to distract them as well.
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Sometimes the timing makes a difference,
what time you're bonding at, because
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they're more active at dawn and dusk.
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So sometimes it can make the world
of difference if you bond in the
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middle of the afternoon, for example,
when they tend to be a bit more
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sleepy and have their nap time.
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So there's a lot of different things,
that, that can be done to change things up
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and sometimes, although you should allow
something like mounting, for example,
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because that's a territorial behavior,
if the other rabbit is really having a
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problem with that, then that's something
you don't allow for that particular
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bond, and they have to figure out a
different way to work out their hierarchy.
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So it needs to be tweaked
constantly, really, in order to
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make it work most of the time.
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Sometimes they fall in love
straight away, but it's rare.
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Dixie: What is the average, time,
that it takes for them to get along?
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Fiona: So it depends very much on the
time people are able to put into it.
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When I'm bonding and the rabbits come
to me for bonding, I would do about 40
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to 50 hours of intensive sessions across
the week, and then they go home, and
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the parents then, the bunny parents then
would spend the next week or two tweaking
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things, extending the space, maybe giving
them free roam if they're used to having
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free roam space, maybe moving them outside
gradually if they live in an outdoor area.
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And I walk them through all that as well.
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Obviously, that's all part
of me doing it for them.
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So that will take maybe a week to
two weeks after they get them home.
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So I guess, it can be how
long is a piece of string.
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Some of them, bond a
lot quicker than others.
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Like I say, they can bond quite quickly,
and then sometimes they can take longer.
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And then there's different
timings that you can do.
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So some people like to go 24/7, which
means they straightaway go in and put the
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bunnies together, and the bunnies are not
separated at all until they're bonded.
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And , in a good bond, that could
take maybe a week to two weeks.
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But other people like to do it slowly
around their work, so they might do an
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hour or two in the evenings and then
longer days at the weekend, for example.
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That way it might take a bit slower,
it might take six or eight weeks.
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If it's going on much longer than
that and you are putting in the hours,
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then there's something that needs to
be adjusted with the process 'cause
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it really shouldn't take that long.
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Dixie: I know with cats yeah, I
rescue cats, so whenever somebody-
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Okay ... adopts a cat or a kitten
and they have another cat at home, we
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always- Yeah ... have to tell people
that, "Okay, you gotta put one in a
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small room, and then, you gradually let
'em sniff each other through the door.
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You crack the door, let
'em- ... see each other.
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Then- ... you put one in a carrier.
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You bring it in the room where the
resident cat lives so they can sniff each
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other- Okay ... through the carrier."
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And- ... for the most part, if people
do that and they take their time, - the
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resident cat will accept the new cat.
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Fiona: Okay.
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Dixie: How is the
situation with the rabbits?
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Do you just put the two rabbits together
automatically or do you have to have
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something separating them so they can
kinda sniff and see each other first?
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00:14:25,631 --> 00:14:25,991
Fiona: Yeah.
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So that's called pre-bonding.
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And some people think it
doesn't make any difference.
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But again, it's another
variable out there.
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Some people say you should
keep them in separate rooms.
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They shouldn't see each other at all
especially if they've had a fight
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in the past or they're new to each
other, then you should just start
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putting them in the pen together
and that's the first time they meet.
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But I actually go the other way.
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I think that they should be housed side
by side, so I recommend that people put
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them in two pens side by side like that.
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Or if one of the rabbits free roams,
then they put the second rabbit into a
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pen in the space that the other rabbit
lives in, a bit like your cat situation.
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And they can then- Get to
know each other a little bit.
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They can get to sniff each other.
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They can see each other, get
used to each other's movements.
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00:15:06,401 --> 00:15:10,011
We do recommend that they have a space
between the bars if you're gonna put
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two pens together or you double bars
because they can actually fight through
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00:15:13,341 --> 00:15:16,961
the bars, and I have seen pictures
online of rabbits that have ripped
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each other's noses fairly badly.
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00:15:18,351 --> 00:15:21,081
It's a case of allowing them
to do it in a safe situation.
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But I find that rabbits who come into me
for bonding when that has happened tend
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to behave as though they know each other
a little bit, and bonding is a little bit
300
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easier, so I do think that really helps.
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So I usually recommend people keep
them separate for, a week or something
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when they bring the new bunny home,
quarantine them just to make sure
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they're not carrying anything to your
new bunny, let them settle in before
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00:15:40,621 --> 00:15:43,501
you expose them to the other rabbit,
and then maybe spend a couple of weeks
305
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with them side by side before they start
bonding, 'cause it's a bit of a shock
306
00:15:48,021 --> 00:15:51,051
to their system sometimes when they're
coming from a rescue situation or they're
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coming from a new, a different home.
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So it's good to settle in first.
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Dixie: What about the case
when you get two dominant ones?
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Do you approach that differently
from getting one submissive
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and one dominant one?
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00:16:03,914 --> 00:16:08,094
Fiona: Usually when you have what appear
to be two dominant rabbits is it's quite
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often not actually two dominant rabbits.
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So it's quite rare to actually
get two dominant rabbits where
315
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one of them won't back down.
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So usually when you go through the
process over time and tweaking things
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00:16:19,764 --> 00:16:22,534
and changing the setup and the timing
and the environment and all that kind
318
00:16:22,534 --> 00:16:26,504
of stuff, usually what you find is that
one of the rabbits eventually backs down
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and decides that they don't actually
care that much about being dominant,
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00:16:29,614 --> 00:16:31,114
and actually they'd quite like a friend.
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00:16:31,114 --> 00:16:34,154
So that matters more to
them than being dominant.
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00:16:34,514 --> 00:16:38,454
But it can also look as though they're
too dominant and what's happening is
323
00:16:38,564 --> 00:16:41,434
the dominant rabbit is attacking and
the submissive rabbit is attacking
324
00:16:41,434 --> 00:16:46,034
back just as a reaction, or one
or both rabbits can be attacking
325
00:16:46,034 --> 00:16:47,354
each other out of fear as well.
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00:16:47,354 --> 00:16:50,674
So that's where I'm saying that people
think sometimes that if you put them
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together and they fight straight away,
that they're not bondable, and actually
328
00:16:53,604 --> 00:16:56,874
what's happening there is they're just
having a communication problem and a
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00:16:56,874 --> 00:17:00,414
hierarchy issue, and if we help them
through it by knowing when to step in
330
00:17:00,414 --> 00:17:04,104
and also being gentle with them and
tweaking the process and maybe doing
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00:17:04,104 --> 00:17:07,763
shorter sessions, for example, or longer
sessions, sometimes immersing them more
332
00:17:07,763 --> 00:17:09,964
in it and doing longer sessions can help.
333
00:17:09,964 --> 00:17:13,714
Sometimes they need short bite-sized
sessions to adjust to each other.
334
00:17:13,743 --> 00:17:16,304
So it's all about just being
very sensitive to the rabbit's
335
00:17:16,854 --> 00:17:18,374
emotions and personalities,
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00:17:18,374 --> 00:17:22,134
Dixie: I know, like I said with
the cats, I try to help people
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00:17:22,214 --> 00:17:24,983
when they're adopting a cat and
bringing it into another multi-cat-
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00:17:24,983 --> 00:17:26,824
household to get things to work out.
339
00:17:26,834 --> 00:17:28,684
And for the most part, like I
said- Yes ... if they follow the
340
00:17:28,684 --> 00:17:33,074
advice that I'm giving or other
rescues give it's very successful.
341
00:17:33,634 --> 00:17:38,264
Now- Great ... I hear people
say often though that, "Okay my
342
00:17:38,264 --> 00:17:42,759
cat hates other cats-" my cat
cannot ever accept another cat.
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00:17:42,809 --> 00:17:47,139
And I find there's- Yeah ... situations,
but it's a rare situation where
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you're gonna have a cat- ... that
won't accept another cat.
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00:17:49,709 --> 00:17:51,679
It just takes time-
Yeah ... for you to work with.
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00:17:52,189 --> 00:17:55,689
So do you find- Exactly ... like
a lot of people wanna just kinda
347
00:17:55,689 --> 00:17:59,439
give up when they say, "Okay I'm
gonna get my rabbit a friend."
348
00:17:59,929 --> 00:18:03,699
They get a rabbit and then they're like,
"Okay, I'm gonna have to rehome this
349
00:18:03,699 --> 00:18:06,859
rabbit," because they don't wanna put
in the time- ... to try to make it work.
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00:18:08,099 --> 00:18:11,359
Fiona: Yeah, sometimes, and I think
there's a lot of anxiety caught up
351
00:18:11,359 --> 00:18:14,509
in it as well because people have
read the horror stories online
352
00:18:14,509 --> 00:18:17,399
and they see that the rabbits
can hurt each other very badly.
353
00:18:17,849 --> 00:18:20,389
Or sometimes what can happen is
the rabbits can get into each other
354
00:18:20,389 --> 00:18:21,769
and they will fight if they do.
355
00:18:21,769 --> 00:18:24,969
So if you have them side by side, you
really need to Fort Knox down the place
356
00:18:25,379 --> 00:18:28,269
because they can be very determined and
if one rabbit suddenly lands in the other
357
00:18:28,269 --> 00:18:31,489
one's space, they're going to have a
go at them because they're territorial.
358
00:18:31,489 --> 00:18:33,369
But again, it doesn't
mean they can't be bonded.
359
00:18:33,889 --> 00:18:37,879
But I think because people don't have
the tools to know how to bond because
360
00:18:37,879 --> 00:18:41,049
they've read stuff online and it hasn't
worked, or they've read a whole load
361
00:18:41,049 --> 00:18:44,339
of conflicting stuff and they're just
overwhelmed and don't know where to start,
362
00:18:44,839 --> 00:18:48,839
that they can read that as the rabbits
aren't bondable and actually following
363
00:18:48,839 --> 00:18:52,619
advice from somebody like myself who would
coach them through the process can really
364
00:18:52,619 --> 00:18:57,539
make the world of difference and that's
evident , in my success rate because it's
365
00:18:57,539 --> 00:18:59,039
just a case of finding the right thing.
366
00:18:59,189 --> 00:19:02,149
But people have to be prepared to put
the time and effort into it as well,
367
00:19:02,189 --> 00:19:05,569
and I think when people sometimes get
a second rabbit, they've read online,
368
00:19:05,569 --> 00:19:07,759
"You should get a second rabbit, your
rabbit needs company," and they don't
369
00:19:07,759 --> 00:19:09,439
realize how much work goes into it.
370
00:19:10,079 --> 00:19:12,609
And it's so totally worth it
because once you get them through
371
00:19:12,609 --> 00:19:14,929
it and they're grooming and
snuggling and playing together,
372
00:19:14,929 --> 00:19:16,529
it's just the most amazing thing.
373
00:19:16,529 --> 00:19:17,299
It's so worth it.
374
00:19:17,809 --> 00:19:20,509
And lots of people say to me, "Oh, I
wish I'd done it sooner," and, "It's so
375
00:19:20,509 --> 00:19:22,129
worth all the hours I've put into it."
376
00:19:22,459 --> 00:19:26,389
But you do have to put the time
into it and make the commitment and,
377
00:19:26,389 --> 00:19:28,339
pause some of your stuff going on.
378
00:19:28,339 --> 00:19:29,909
I do think you can fit
it around your lifestyle.
379
00:19:29,909 --> 00:19:33,149
I don't think you have to completely
cancel your life while you're doing it.
380
00:19:33,529 --> 00:19:36,499
And I help people to fit it around their
lifestyle so they're not stressed, but
381
00:19:36,539 --> 00:19:41,009
it is a commitment to do it and I suppose
not everybody's , in the mindset to do it
382
00:19:41,009 --> 00:19:45,549
or has the time or the emotional strength
to do it because it is quite emotional.
383
00:19:45,949 --> 00:19:48,419
But I would say to anybody out
there who's having a problem,
384
00:19:48,419 --> 00:19:50,169
please talk to me about it.
385
00:19:50,169 --> 00:19:52,279
I'm happy to give a little bit of advice.
386
00:19:52,279 --> 00:19:53,749
I do a free 15-minute call.
387
00:19:53,749 --> 00:19:56,149
I'd like to hear what's going on
with your bunnies and I can tell
388
00:19:56,149 --> 00:19:59,359
you from the situation whether
it's worth trying again or not.
389
00:19:59,679 --> 00:20:03,469
Whether you get my help or not, it can be
really helpful just to hear, just to talk
390
00:20:03,469 --> 00:20:06,679
to somebody who knows what you're talking
about and g- get it off your chest and
391
00:20:06,679 --> 00:20:10,759
to hear that it might be worth another
go and things, if things are tweaked
392
00:20:10,829 --> 00:20:12,539
that it can quite often be successful.
393
00:20:12,899 --> 00:20:14,989
It's just very emotional with
our fur babies, isn't it?
394
00:20:14,989 --> 00:20:17,249
We don't want them to hurt each other
and we want them to be happy, and
395
00:20:17,789 --> 00:20:21,659
people get stressed as well about
putting them through that and they
396
00:20:21,659 --> 00:20:23,029
wonder are they better off on their own,
397
00:20:23,079 --> 00:20:27,994
Dixie: yeah, and I think sometimes too
that- your stress transfers over to them.
398
00:20:28,414 --> 00:20:32,864
So if you're having anxiety about the
situation- Yeah ... that anxiety actually
399
00:20:32,864 --> 00:20:35,424
causes your animals to have anxiety, too?
400
00:20:36,264 --> 00:20:37,724
Fiona: Absolutely agree with that.
401
00:20:37,724 --> 00:20:38,514
Totally, yes.
402
00:20:38,514 --> 00:20:41,704
And a lot of what I do is coaching
the people as well as coaching them
403
00:20:41,704 --> 00:20:45,334
to bond the bunnies because I think
people need a lot of encouragement and
404
00:20:45,334 --> 00:20:48,604
support as they're doing it because
you don't see the wood for the trees.
405
00:20:48,604 --> 00:20:52,204
You can't see whether you're making any
progress or not, and sometimes you need
406
00:20:52,204 --> 00:20:53,704
somebody just to say, "You're doing great.
407
00:20:53,704 --> 00:20:57,014
Keep going," and I can see that they're
making progress even though you can't.
408
00:20:57,114 --> 00:21:00,684
And yes, absolutely anything that
you can do to help de-stress when
409
00:21:00,684 --> 00:21:03,644
you're doing this, doing the bonding
can make a huge difference 'cause
410
00:21:03,644 --> 00:21:05,044
they do pick up on it, definitely.
411
00:21:06,244 --> 00:21:10,284
Dixie: Typically when you do the bonding
and it's gonna be a pair, can you add .. a
412
00:21:10,284 --> 00:21:14,234
third or a fourth to that pair or should
you just strictly stick with a pair?
413
00:21:15,634 --> 00:21:16,984
Fiona: Yeah, absolutely you can.
414
00:21:16,984 --> 00:21:19,694
Yes, and lots of people have
fluffles, as they call them,
415
00:21:19,694 --> 00:21:21,074
like a bigger gang of bunnies.
416
00:21:21,564 --> 00:21:26,144
So you can absolutely add a third
or a fourth or bond two pairs
417
00:21:26,144 --> 00:21:29,694
together or bond a couple of
groups of smaller groups together.
418
00:21:29,694 --> 00:21:30,314
It's more work.
419
00:21:30,344 --> 00:21:34,104
It takes longer because there's a lot of
different personalities and different,
420
00:21:34,104 --> 00:21:35,874
a lot of different dynamics going on.
421
00:21:35,874 --> 00:21:39,604
So a trio, for example, will take longer
than a pair because there's a whole load
422
00:21:39,604 --> 00:21:43,464
of different individual relationships
going on, as well as working out who's
423
00:21:43,464 --> 00:21:45,504
top dog and who's second and who's third.
424
00:21:45,924 --> 00:21:49,334
But it's absolutely possible, and
they do really well in groups as well.
425
00:21:49,334 --> 00:21:52,514
So if you're prepared to put the
time and effort into it, it can
426
00:21:52,514 --> 00:21:55,134
be lovely it's a great way to
get more bunnies adopted as well.
427
00:21:55,134 --> 00:21:57,024
There's so many bunnies looking
for homes, aren't there?
428
00:21:57,024 --> 00:21:57,774
So many dumped.
429
00:21:57,774 --> 00:22:01,404
I know you have a big problem in in the US
with it and we've a big problem in Ireland
430
00:22:01,404 --> 00:22:04,604
and the UK as well with it where bunnies
are just being dumped left and center.
431
00:22:04,604 --> 00:22:07,444
So if you can add to your fluffle, do.
432
00:22:07,444 --> 00:22:08,034
It's great.
433
00:22:10,634 --> 00:22:13,964
Dixie: How do your online
coaching sessions work?
434
00:22:13,964 --> 00:22:17,984
Do you have to do it like Zoom where you
would actually see the pair or do you
435
00:22:17,984 --> 00:22:22,814
just go based off of the cues of what
the the pet parents are telling you?
436
00:22:24,609 --> 00:22:27,189
Fiona: So I like to see
videos if at all possible.
437
00:22:27,189 --> 00:22:31,259
So I always recommend people , to video
their sessions or try and catch videos
438
00:22:31,309 --> 00:22:33,369
of the behaviors that they're seeing.
439
00:22:33,369 --> 00:22:37,029
So if they can have a second person
doing a little bit of videoing or set
440
00:22:37,029 --> 00:22:41,709
up a pet camera or their mobile phone
to record, that can be really helpful.
441
00:22:41,749 --> 00:22:44,639
Because sometimes people are
misreading the behavior and
442
00:22:44,639 --> 00:22:47,899
actually what's what's going on is
not what they think is going on.
443
00:22:47,899 --> 00:22:51,829
So for example, the other day I had a
lady come to me and she said that her--
444
00:22:51,829 --> 00:22:53,599
one of her rabbits was food aggressive.
445
00:22:54,039 --> 00:22:58,529
And when I looked at the videos, I
could actually see that the rabbit was
446
00:22:58,529 --> 00:23:02,069
trying to control the other rabbit's
movements, and it was territorial
447
00:23:02,069 --> 00:23:03,409
over the owner, not the food.
448
00:23:03,939 --> 00:23:07,579
So that flipped on its head completely
how we were approaching the bond
449
00:23:07,579 --> 00:23:10,099
and what we needed to do and
changed the setup and everything,
450
00:23:10,499 --> 00:23:11,979
and it's working really well now.
451
00:23:11,979 --> 00:23:15,219
So obviously people are new to
doing it and they're just getting--
452
00:23:15,629 --> 00:23:18,399
stuck in the woods for they can't
see the trees for the whole thing.
453
00:23:18,399 --> 00:23:21,459
It can be difficult to read the
bunny's behavior, and it can be
454
00:23:21,459 --> 00:23:22,999
really helpful to me to see videos.
455
00:23:23,039 --> 00:23:27,449
So most of my sessions would involve
people show me videos of what's happening.
456
00:23:27,449 --> 00:23:31,889
I don't generally do a Zoom call while the
bunnies are in the bonding pen, because
457
00:23:31,889 --> 00:23:35,449
by the time the bunnies do something and
I tell the owner what to do and then they
458
00:23:35,449 --> 00:23:38,539
inter-intercept the behavior, it could
be too late and could have an injury.
459
00:23:38,539 --> 00:23:41,949
So it's better for them to do the
session and then feed back to me.
460
00:23:41,949 --> 00:23:44,009
And then I also provide them with videos.
461
00:23:44,049 --> 00:23:48,679
All of my options, I provide a
video of bonding behaviors bonding
462
00:23:48,679 --> 00:23:52,979
sessions that I have done myself,
because you can read online, "Don't
463
00:23:52,979 --> 00:23:54,879
allow lunging, don't allow chasing.
464
00:23:55,119 --> 00:23:56,679
Nipping is okay, but biting isn't."
465
00:23:56,679 --> 00:23:58,039
And you're like what's the difference?"
466
00:23:58,089 --> 00:24:00,279
And just reading the
words doesn't help you.
467
00:24:00,679 --> 00:24:04,259
So I video my own bonding sessions,
cut them down into short videos, and
468
00:24:04,259 --> 00:24:07,949
I can tell-- and then I tell you with
each video, "This is this behavior.
469
00:24:07,949 --> 00:24:09,019
This is what it looks like.
470
00:24:09,389 --> 00:24:10,209
This is okay.
471
00:24:10,209 --> 00:24:13,199
Just watch and make sure it doesn't
escalate," or, "This is not okay."
472
00:24:13,519 --> 00:24:16,419
And if it's not okay, how to step
in so that the rabbits don't go
473
00:24:16,419 --> 00:24:17,839
straight back into fight mode again.
474
00:24:17,899 --> 00:24:20,819
So that-- a lot of people find that
really helpful because they can
475
00:24:20,819 --> 00:24:23,589
interpret it, their own bunny's
behavior then because of that.
476
00:24:25,049 --> 00:24:28,499
And then I walk them through the steps
online with Zoom as well then, and I tell
477
00:24:28,499 --> 00:24:33,919
them when to expand and when to add stuff
and when to start free roaming and how to
478
00:24:33,919 --> 00:24:37,489
do all those things, dependent on the pair
that I'm working with or the bond that I'm
479
00:24:37,489 --> 00:24:40,749
working with, because it's all different
and they have to go-- You have to go at
480
00:24:40,749 --> 00:24:43,729
the rabbit's pace, you can go too fast
and rush things, and then you don't have
481
00:24:43,729 --> 00:24:46,999
a strong bond, or you can go too slow,
and then that can cause problems because
482
00:24:46,999 --> 00:24:49,139
the rabbits are bored and frustrated.
483
00:24:49,139 --> 00:24:52,029
So timing is very nuanced as well.
484
00:24:53,219 --> 00:24:53,349
Dixie: Yeah.
485
00:24:53,349 --> 00:24:56,279
This has been a very interesting
conversation, and I will say
486
00:24:56,279 --> 00:24:57,559
I'm, , learning a lot from it.
487
00:24:58,189 --> 00:25:04,859
And I think this is a great resource
for prospective rabbit owners to have
488
00:25:04,859 --> 00:25:10,204
too, because we have a problem with
people dumping rabbits and bunnies And
489
00:25:10,294 --> 00:25:13,884
I don't think- Yeah ... a lot of people
always consider a rabbit for adoption
490
00:25:13,884 --> 00:25:15,614
when they're considering adding a pet.
491
00:25:15,614 --> 00:25:20,274
That seems to be the one that
is considered as a starter pet.
492
00:25:20,274 --> 00:25:23,064
It's a very easy pet to add
when it's not, yes, not at
493
00:25:23,064 --> 00:25:23,364
Fiona: all.
494
00:25:23,434 --> 00:25:27,064
Dixie: Yeah, it requires as much
research as getting a cat or a dog.
495
00:25:27,394 --> 00:25:30,034
It's, you know- Absolutely ... you
need to know what to feed it.
496
00:25:30,074 --> 00:25:32,114
You need to know what the behaviors mean.
497
00:25:32,644 --> 00:25:37,174
And I think- Yeah ... that this resource
that you are offering is great because
498
00:25:37,174 --> 00:25:42,334
it is keeping bunnies in homes, and it's
keeping- ... them happier too, because
499
00:25:42,334 --> 00:25:47,384
it's putting a pair together and, they'll
have a companion- Yeah ... for life.
500
00:25:48,514 --> 00:25:52,364
Fiona: Yes, and they think from research
that bonded bunnies are happier and
501
00:25:52,364 --> 00:25:55,934
they're healthier and it's more natural
than the way they're in the wild and
502
00:25:55,934 --> 00:25:59,624
they, that they don't ever really relax
when they're on their own because as
503
00:25:59,624 --> 00:26:02,904
prey animals, they're used to watching
out to see if there's a predator around.
504
00:26:03,244 --> 00:26:06,244
And so they never really switch off if
they're on their own, and yet if they're
505
00:26:06,244 --> 00:26:09,484
in a bonded pair, they can take it
in turns and they can actually relax.
506
00:26:09,484 --> 00:26:12,694
So that's obviously better for their
nervous system, better for their health.
507
00:26:13,154 --> 00:26:16,714
And yeah, and this is why I love doing it
because I, know for a fact that helping
508
00:26:16,714 --> 00:26:19,694
people bond their bunnies is keeping them
happier and healthier and keeping them
509
00:26:19,694 --> 00:26:24,584
in homes as well, and also allows people
to adopt because they know that I can
510
00:26:24,584 --> 00:26:26,694
support them through the bonding process.
511
00:26:26,994 --> 00:26:30,904
I work quite closely with our local SPCA,
and they refer people to me for bonding,
512
00:26:30,904 --> 00:26:34,774
and it's really a great collaboration
between us because I recommend them
513
00:26:34,774 --> 00:26:38,284
for people to adopt bunnies when I know
somebody's looking for one, and then they
514
00:26:38,284 --> 00:26:41,634
send people to me for boarding and bonding
and care and behavior 'cause I do all
515
00:26:41,634 --> 00:26:43,044
that as well if they need help with that.
516
00:26:43,044 --> 00:26:46,794
And it's working really well to help
support bunny parents who don't want
517
00:26:46,794 --> 00:26:50,754
to guess what they're doing and don't
want to rely on Google when it's so
518
00:26:50,754 --> 00:26:52,524
conflicting for everything about bunnies.
519
00:26:54,134 --> 00:26:55,614
Dixie: How can people
get in touch with you?
520
00:26:57,354 --> 00:27:00,834
Fiona: So I have a website
called thebunnybondingcoach.com,
521
00:27:00,994 --> 00:27:03,524
and that has all my options on it.
522
00:27:03,594 --> 00:27:07,294
There is a free 15-minute call link if
you'd like to just have a little chat
523
00:27:07,294 --> 00:27:10,484
about what's going on with your bunnies,
and there's also a quiz on there where you
524
00:27:10,484 --> 00:27:14,914
can tell me what's happening as well, and
I'll send you a personalized email with my
525
00:27:14,914 --> 00:27:17,494
take on the situation and how I can help.
526
00:27:17,914 --> 00:27:20,424
And then I have lots of different
options depending on whether you
527
00:27:20,424 --> 00:27:21,834
just want a plan to work through.
528
00:27:21,834 --> 00:27:25,714
We can do a Zoom call where I can give
you a plan, or I do a really high level
529
00:27:25,714 --> 00:27:28,354
of support as well at the other extreme,
and there's everything in between.
530
00:27:28,354 --> 00:27:32,084
But I do a really high level of support
where I can walk people through it.
531
00:27:32,114 --> 00:27:35,574
They get a month's support with me,
four Zoom calls across the month, and
532
00:27:35,574 --> 00:27:37,474
unlimited WhatsApp support in between.
533
00:27:37,474 --> 00:27:40,394
So if you're anxious or you've
got a particularly complex bond
534
00:27:40,874 --> 00:27:43,064
or you just don't know where to
start, it can be really helpful.
535
00:27:43,064 --> 00:27:45,544
It's the next best thing to
me being beside you, and I'll
536
00:27:45,544 --> 00:27:46,684
support you through it all.
537
00:27:48,114 --> 00:27:51,654
Dixie: Thank you so much for
taking the time to speak with
538
00:27:51,654 --> 00:27:52,964
me today about all of this.
539
00:27:54,259 --> 00:27:55,529
Fiona: Oh, thank you
very much for having me.
540
00:27:55,529 --> 00:27:58,319
It's been lovely talking to you, and it's
been interesting for me to hear about
541
00:27:58,429 --> 00:28:01,527
the parallels with the cats because , I
don't know anything about bonding cats
542
00:28:02,134 --> 00:28:04,624
Dixie: that's it for today's
episode of Animal Posse.
543
00:28:04,654 --> 00:28:07,594
If you love what we're doing,
please consider becoming a member.
544
00:28:07,834 --> 00:28:11,944
Your support directly helps us continue
highlighting the people and stories
545
00:28:11,944 --> 00:28:13,564
that save lives across the country.
546
00:28:13,984 --> 00:28:17,284
Just a quick reminder, the views
and opinions expressed by our
547
00:28:17,284 --> 00:28:21,304
guests are theirs alone and are
provided for entertainment purposes.
548
00:28:21,514 --> 00:28:22,804
They don't necessarily.
549
00:28:22,844 --> 00:28:27,464
reflect the official position of the show,
and this information should never replace
550
00:28:27,464 --> 00:28:29,804
the advice of your own veterinarian.
551
00:28:29,977 --> 00:28:32,227
Thanks for listening, and
we'll see you next time.
