Jesus was the most effective communicator who ever lived. Dr. Charles Stone, a pastor with a background in the neuroscience of leadership, breaks down the brain science behind how he taught, connected, and moved people to change. Connection. Emotion. Memory. Action. This conversation will change how you talk to everyone in your life.

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See the full episode transcript below.

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EPISODE TRANSCRIPT: Talk Like the Most Effective Communicator Who Ever Lived

Brian Del Turco: Hey there, friend. Welcome to the podcast. This is Brian Del Turco, and this is Jesus Smart X. I'm glad you're here.

This is episode 379, and you can find the show notes for this episode at jesussmart.com/379. This is a special required-listening episode: a recording from the past that we're surfacing again, because it's about communication, and communication makes everything work. Jesus was a master communicator, and we have a lot to learn from him. Here's Dr. Charles Stone, an expert on neuroscience and communication.

Dr. Charles Stone helps us explore what it might look like if Jesus gave a TED Talk: eight neuroscience principles the master teacher used to persuade, whether in one-on-one conversation, small clusters, or massive crowds. We'll survey all eight briefly, then dig into a few in more depth, including creating affinity, leveraging emotion, and stimulating real life application. Dr. Stone is a pastor in Canada with an executive master's in the neuroscience of leadership, and he's currently working on his PhD. Here's my conversation with Dr. Charles Stone.

Meet Dr. Charles Stone

Brian Del Turco: I'm really excited about our guest today. He's an expert on neuroscience and leadership as it relates specifically to ministry, though I think there's application here across every life domain. Scripture tells us to love God with all our mind, to be transformed by the renewing of our mind. Is it too much to say that the mind of Christ in us involves a kind of neuroplasticity, that we can actually grow in the mind of Christ?

Dr. Charles Stone: Not at all. The way God designed us to learn is through actual changes in our brain, and those changes reflect our values, our beliefs, and our convictions.

Brian Del Turco: Communication makes the world go round. Does this apply beyond the pulpit, to relational communication in family life, friendships, teaching?

Dr. Charles Stone: Absolutely. God wired us to communicate in a way that isn't just for someone standing up front on Sunday morning. Our brains are wired to pay attention, to respond, to feel safe or unsafe around others, regardless of the setting. Biblical communication principles apply across the board.

Dr. Stone holds degrees from Georgia Tech, Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary, and Trinity Evangelical, plus an executive master's in the Neuroscience of Leadership. He's the author of *If Jesus Gave a TED Talk*, a title he borrows not because Jesus gave neat eighteen-minute talks, but because he masterfully lived out the best ways to communicate and make truth stick. He was God, so we don't have what he has, but we can still learn from how he taught.

The Forgetting Curve That Sparked a Book

Brian Del Turco: What prompted you to write this book?

Dr. Charles Stone: As a pastor spending fifteen to twenty hours a week preparing a message, I had this nagging feeling: what difference is this actually making? None of my seminary professors ever taught the theory behind what makes a message stick. Then I came across research from a German psychologist, Hermann Ebbinghaus, who invented nonsense words, memorized them, and measured how quickly he forgot them. That gave us the Ebbinghaus forgetting curve, and it's since been repeatedly confirmed: people forget more than 95 percent of what they hear in a teaching session within a week's time. That was a wake-up call. Are there tools, principles, that communicators can apply to increase retention? Absolutely. That's why I wrote the book, and why others are studying the neuroscience of learning and communication.

Eight Questions, Eight Principles

Dr. Stone built his framework around eight questions, one for each principle: where you want to take your audience, how to get them to listen, why they should listen, how to beat out distractions, how to help them feel the message, how to make it stick, how to help them believe they can change, and what you want them to do afterward. Those became eight principles: clarity, attention, affinity, capacity, durability, emotion, mindset, and transfer. For a full breakdown, visit the show notes at jesussmart.com/379.

Affinity: Creating Real Connection

Dr. Charles Stone: Connection happens on two levels. First, with your material. You've all sat through a class or a sermon where the speaker clearly doesn't know their own content; that requires homework on our part. Second, and bigger, is human connection. Psychologists call it in-group and out-group. When people feel you're in their in-group, they pay attention and follow you. When they feel you're in the out-group, they can subconsciously register you as a threat, and they simply won't listen as well.

Sometimes when I'm speaking to a new audience, I'll show a picture of my family, my kids, my dog. It signals, this is a normal guy. It builds trust. And the more you actually know your audience's needs, the more you can tailor what you say to them. I once heard a speaker from the southern U.S. reference a Chick-fil-A item to a room of Canadian pastors, and half the room had no idea what he meant. Small thing, but it's a missed connection. People sense, subconsciously, whether you know them.

Brian Del Turco: That's a powerful baseline human instinct: to be seen, heard, known.

Emotion: Engaging the Heart

Dr. Charles Stone: If we'd been a fly on the wall for Jesus's preaching, we'd have heard passion, present enough that crowds asked, "Who is this who teaches with authority?" Emotion isn't just about the communicator's delivery; it's also how powerfully emotional learning sticks. I remember exactly where I was when the Challenger exploded, and when the towers fell on 9/11. That's the kind of stickiness emotion creates.

There's a flip side, though: cognitive dissonance. Push people too far ahead of where they are and you lose them. Stay a step or two ahead, not miles ahead. If most people aren't keeping a daily devotional habit, don't challenge them to an hour a day; challenge them to ten minutes, three days a week, then raise the bar the next week.

Well-placed stories matter too. Jesus told parables. A good story pulls a listener inside it; they become an actor in the narrative, engaging mind and heart together.

Transfer: Stimulating Life Application

Dr. Charles Stone: The goal of teaching isn't to disseminate information; it's for something to change outside the room. That requires prospective memory: remembering to do something in the future. Simple cues help. Some churches hand out small cards with a question from the message; people tape them to a dashboard or refrigerator as a reminder to apply what they heard that week.

A Word on Contagious Confidence

Dr. Charles Stone: There's something called emotional contagion: people catch your emotions, good or bad. I once watched a fast-food manager berate his cook in front of a line of customers; he'd set a tone, and it spread. Walk into a room defeated or irritated, and people won't lean in. Bring an encouraging spirit and they believe, "I can actually do this." That said, authenticity still matters; naming a real struggle briefly, without becoming a weekly downer, builds empathy rather than distance.

This ties to mentalizing, our built-in ability to intuit the feelings and intentions of others: part spiritual sensitivity, part the way God wired our brains to read facial cues. We can't compartmentalize the spiritual from the physical; it's one integrated human experience.

Closing Prayer

Dr. Charles Stone: Father, thank you for technology that lets us share these conversations. Thank you for designing our brains and giving us the ability to form words and meaning. Thank you for the beauty of language, even though we so often misuse it. Lord, I pray listeners would take even one nugget from this conversation, and that your Holy Spirit would embed it deep. You've shown us your way of communicating through the Gospels, through how Jesus taught and told stories. May we learn from him as the teacher of all teachers, and may we steward this gift well. In your name, amen.

For more on this conversation and the full eight principles from If Jesus Gave a TED Talk, visit jesussmart.com/379.

Christ is reigning.

This is jesus smart x with brian del turco.

Live the difference.

Hey there friend.

Welcome to the podcast.

This is Brian Del Turco, Jesus Smart X the podcast.

I'm glad you're here.

This is episode 379 and you can go to the show notes page for this [email protected] 37 9.

This is a special required listening episode.

A recording from the past that we surfaced again.

It's about communication and communication makes everything work.

Jesus was a master communicator and we have a lot to learn from him.

You're going to enjoy this conversation.

Here's Dr. Charles Stone, an expert on neuroscience and communication.

You know, I just had a little interaction with our family cat, Thorin is his name, and I had to remove him from a stool that I need to use to record on.

And so he didn't like that.

He meowed at me and he always lets me know, gives me a little.

Bit of lip, if you know what I mean when we move him or do something.

He's very smart cat, but you know,.

He's got a bit of an attitude.

And I just said, hey, go read a book, Thorin.

Go, go, go.

Go work on a project you're working on.

Hey Thorin, go do that.

Your future self will be glad you did.

You know, maybe do some reading, maybe improve yourself, maybe do some exercise, I don't know.

But don't just sit around doing nothing.

Go do something that your future self will be grateful for.

Think about your future self, Thorin.

I'm motivated to bring everybody along, my entire family, our daughters and even our family.

Kat, Thorin okay, so a little behind the scenes there.

As we're recording segments for this episode,.

I'm convinced more than ever that Jesus Christ knows how our lives work best.

And he's passionate about developing his followers as both intimate friends and co agents.

Co agency in his kingdom.

Listen to an episode or two and see if you might want to add the podcast to your playlist.

Dr. Charles Stone helps us in this episode on persuasive communication.

If Jesus gave a TED Talk with principles that we can learn from the most effective communicator in history, Jesus Christ.

He explores eight neuroscience principles that the master teacher, the master communicator used to persuade one on one communication.

Small clusters, small groupings, synagogue audiences and massive outside crowds.

There's a solid top level survey that we do here, but we focus on three or four core principles including creating affinity, creating connection with those you're communicating with, knowing who they are.

And helping that person or that group or that audience to learn to trust you and know you and like you.

We talk about emotion, how to leverage powerful emotional learning and to limit the impact of cognitive dissonance and to use stories to lead in with well placed stories to illustrate in our communication again, parenting every life domain.

And we also look at how to then transfer, how to stimulate life application.

Now what is the question?

So creating cues and helping those we are communicating with to remember what we're.

Saying and to begin to act on.

It, to bring them along.

We're just a couple steps ahead of them and we want to bring them along and get them to move with us on something.

In all of this neuroscience, we count on the work, the Holy spirit as well.

Dr. Charles Stone is a pastor in Canada.

He has earned three academic degrees plus an executive master's in the neuroscience of leadership, currently working on his PhD.

I think you're going to like this.

He has a book on the topic.

But you're going to gain a lot from this episode.

Okay, here we go with Dr. Charles Stone.

Hey, welcome listener to the podcast today.

I'm really excited about our guest, Dr. Charles Stone.

I'm going to introduce him in just a moment.

He's an expert on neuroscience and leadership and as it relates specifically to ministry.

But I think there's application here for all kinds of life domains.

I find it interesting and encouraging that the Bible tells us to love God with all of our mind.

We're to be transformed by the renewing of our mind.

Paul even says in Ephesians 4, I think that we are to be renewed in the spirit of our mind.

Is this too much to say, Dr. Stone?

That the mind of Christ in us can be neuroplasticity, that we can grow in the mind of Christ?

Am I taking too much liberty there?

No, I don't think so at all.

The way God designed us to learn is through actual changes in our brain.

And those changes reflect our values and our beliefs and our convictions.

So not at all.

Yeah, I just kind of thought, I know it applies by a and to the physical organ of the brain in recent decades, the research has shown.

But I thought, hey, the mind of Christ too is something that grows in us and continues to develop.

Communication, makes the world go round.

I think that's a pretty fair statement with what we're talking about today.

Dr. Stone, can this apply to relational communication like in family life or friendships or other life domains, teachers, etc.

Absolutely.

The way God wired us to to communicate is not just for like myself, sitting or standing up on Sunday mornings and bringing a Sunday morning sermon.

But it affects all of communication because our brains are wired a certain way to pay attention, to respond, to feel safe around others, or to not feel so safe around others.

So, yeah, it doesn't really matter the setting that you're in.

Biblical communication principles apply all across the board.

Sure.

I'm excited about his book, if Jesus Gave a TED Talk, eight Neuroscience Principles.

The master teacher used to persuade his audience.

A master communicator, because of the topic today, a little bit about his academic credentials.

He has an engineering degree from Georgia Tech, a Master's of Divinity from Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary, a Doctorate of Ministry from Trinity Evangelical, and a most recent degree is an executive master's in Neuroscience of Leadership from the Neuro Leadership Institute.

And he's doing some other academic work as well.

Therapeutic models of mindfulness and mind brain and teaching from John Hopkins University, a certificate there.

And are you currently in a PhD.

Program, Dr. Stone as well?

Yes, I guess I'm a glutton for punishment.

I'm in a PhD program right now and actually studying stress among pastors.

Very fascinating.

Very fascinating.

Stress a huge issue today across, across all of life.

You know, coming to Jesus is coming to a learning process, isn't it?

He said, come to me and learn from me.

Oh, absolutely.

He, he is the, the quintessential master teacher.

In fact, that's part of what my book was named after.

If Jesus Gave a TED Talk.

Not that Jesus would give a little 18 minute little talks, but he is.

He masterfully developed and lived out the very best ways to communicate and make your message stick and make your message transform people's lives.

Of course, he was God, so we don't quite have what he has, certainly, but we can learn from him and how he taught and how he preached and communicated.

Sure.

You feel there's like principles that we could see and how he communicated that we could abstract and then apply to our personal lives, our professional lives, our, you know, our, I like to call it our kingdom career, our, you know, the ministry that we do that everybody has to bring, you know, their gifts and to serve in ministry.

You think we can abstract these principles from Jesus as a master teacher, a master communicator, and apply them?

Absolutely.

We can apply it in every, every level.

The book was really focused on more public communicators, but it is applicable across the board in every situation because Jesus just, just didn't preach the big crowds.

He did that certainly, and he captured their attention.

He preached in the synagogue, and they were amazed at his teaching.

But he also spent most of his time with his 12 disciples.

So it was a different setting, but those same principles he used in the large group and a small group.

Yeah.

So what motivated you, what prompted you to write this latest book?

You have six books out now.

If Jesus gave a TED Talk, what prompted you to write it?

Well, you know, as a pastor and spending 15 to 20 hours a week putting together a message, I've always had this nagging feeling in the back of my mind like, okay, what difference does this make?

It I took 15 to 20 hours of my week.

These people come out and hear me preach and teach.

They've taken their morning out.

And if you collectively put together all the man hours of all the pastors, let's just say in North America, it is hundreds of thousands of man hours every week.

So it made me just think, okay, you know, in seminary and had these classes on preaching and teaching, but never really did any of my professors talk about the theory of learning, the theories behind what makes messages stick, stick, how do, how do you communicate?

And what he did was he invented a whole bunch of little short nonsense words, memorized them, and then measured how long it took him to forget them.

Out of this came something called the Ebbinghaus forgetting curve that science since then has repeatedly proved, yes, this is the truth.

And basically it's this, okay, people will forget 95% plus of what you say in a, you know, in a teaching session, in a week's weeks time.

So it like struck me like, oh my.

You mean when I share on Sunday morning, people forget essentially the whole thing within a, within a week?

So that really made me ask myself, okay, are there some tools, are there some principles that we communicators can apply to increase that retention?

And certainly there are.

That's why I wrote the book and why others are looking at the neuroscience behind learning and communication.

So that was just a wake up call for me for sure.

Yes.

Really.

And you feel that not only can this apply to presenting before a larger crowd, like a pastor would do, or a Christian leader might do in a church setting or a conference, but we can apply this relationally in much smaller clusters.

Maybe teachers, writers, team leader, how about sales?

And like government leaders have to persuade and you know, absolutely, anytime you're trying.

To communicate to somebody else, what we learn from Jesus, what we learn from neuroscience is to combine the Two, there's great, there are great lessons in those two, a combination of those two sources of communication that anybody can use in any setting.

I love Dallas Willard and you, you probably resonate with him.

Jesus is the most brilliant person who's ever walked the planet.

You know, master of molecules, he calls him.

And I just have a little bit of a chip on my shoulder.

Dr. Stone, for those who might be antagonistic towards Christianity, stating that to follow Christ is for the feeble minded or the, you know, the lower rungs of thinkers.

You know what's interesting?

Somebody did a study of Nobel winners or Nobel Prize winners, this is maybe 20 years ago, to find out what their faith was.

And a percentage, something like 70% plus of Nobel Prize winners or of the Christian faith.

So Christianity is not with the feeble minded whatsoever.

It is the most attested to faith, worldview, belief system of every other system in the world.

So it's not just, it takes faith, not a blind leap of faith because it's based on incredible truths and historical evidence and all, all of that.

Sure, I'm all about that.

I appreciate that very much.

So before we talk about, we're going to do like a fly overview of just the eight core principles in your book about how Jesus taught and the neuroscience of communication.

But, and then we're going to focus on just several of those, maybe in a little more depth.

But what is the overall motif, the overall theme of your book?

Yeah, well, what I did was I started out with eight questions.

I'll give you these briefly.

And these eight questions drove eight principles, which then drove three practical ways to apply these principles.

So question one is, where do you want to take your audience, whether it be an audience of one or a thousand?

Number two, how can you get your audience to really listen to you?

Number three, why should your audience listen to you?

That's the so what question?

Okay.

Or how can you beat the competition vying for the attention of your audience?

And there are always distractions no matter what your audience is.

Five, how can you help your audience feel your message?

Because emotional learning is very powerful.

Six, how can you help your message stick in the minds and hearts of your audience better?

Seven, how can you help those in your audience believe that they can change and do what you suggest or that you're asking them to do?

Eight, what does your audience need to do after your speech, sermon, lesson, conversation or training session?

In other words, what do you want them to take away?

What action do you want to evoke?

So those are the really eight fundamental questions that drove the eight principles.

I'll touch on these quickly, then we can take apart, you know, two or three.

Whatever you'd like to do.

Sure.

Principle one is clarity.

Okay.

Begin with the end in mind.

Principle two is attention Peak interest.

Principle three is affinity.

Create connection.

Okay.

Principle four is capacity free up working memory.

Working memory is that part of our memory that stores information.

Like, you know, someone tells you a phone number, you can store it there for 30 or so seconds.

Long enough so you can make the call.

That's working memory.

Very, very important in learning.

Yeah.

Principle five, Durability.

Stimulate long term memory.

This is that part of your memory where you remember your first grade teacher's name.

Okay.

Principle six, Emotion.

Engage the heart.

Principle seven, Mindset.

Cultivate confidence that your listener really can make changes.

Sure.

And the principle a transfer.

Stimulate life application.

So those are the eight questions that led to the principles.

And happy to touch on some of these principles that you think would be most helpful for your listeners.

Yeah.

Well, let's talk about connection.

Let's talk about principle number three.

Let's start there.

Creating an affinity.

I mean connection is so huge.

It's a huge issue.

People feel very disconnected, very fragmented, very distracted.

As you say, everything is flying at us with warp, at warp speed.

And so there must be.

If we're going to create a meaningful communication process, I guess we could assume we must create a meaningful connection and affinity.

Knowing who we're talking to.

Why don't you start there?

And I think that's a good highlight right there.

Sure, sure.

When I say create connections with connection with two things.

First of all, with your material, you know, we've all been in, whether it's a classroom or even a Sunday morning, and the speaker, the pastor or the teacher, you just, you just need.

They don't really, they're uncomfortable with what they're talking about.

They don't really know what they're talking about.

At least that sure appears that way.

So that requires the homework on our side.

Make sure we know the material that we're communicating or the, or the purpose behind this conversation when we're going to have a conversation with somebody.

So that's, that's the one side, but the bigger thing is the human connection.

People will listen to you more when they like you.

It's called in group, out group.

Scientists have discovered, psychologists have discovered that when people feel like you're in their in group, they're more likely to pay attention to you, to follow you, to listen to you.

If they feel like you're in the out group, you're actually.

They can actually see you as a threat to them.

That's not even conscious.

It's some conscious.

And because of that, they're just not going to listen to you as well.

So when we connect with our audience, and sometimes that may be, like, if I'm in a new audience, what I've done, sometimes I throw up a picture of my family, like, here's my kids, you know, there's my dog.

And that creates a little connection and say, okay, this is a kind of normal guy.

He's got kids, got a dog.

Yeah, yeah.

It builds trust.

Exactly.

Absolutely.

And of course, when you're in a new audience, it takes a little more time for that.

But as a pastor, I just continue to tell little stories, you know, kind of make fun of myself.

And that kind of brings down the fear level.

And people like, okay, this guy's going to really hit me hard with something that I can't do or be harsh with me.

So that's creating connection.

Now, one other piece as well is if you know the person you're going to or you know your audience, the more you know your audience, the more you're able to tailor what you're trying to communicate to them because you know a bit about their needs.

So that also creates connection.

It's not like I was up here in Canada.

We don't have.

Well, we do have a couple of chick fil A's, but in the south, yeah, our chick fil A's everywhere.

Everybody knows what a chick fil A is.

Well, this guy was up here speaking to a group of Canadian pastors, and he talked about some chick fil A item, and everybody's looking around like, what is that?

Well, I knew what it was.

Yeah, but they didn't.

So.

So he missed a little bit of connection there.

Because when that happens, people think like, this guy does not know me.

They don't think it consciously, but subconsciously.

So.

So that's kind of the essence of connection.

Know what you're going to say well enough that it communicates that you're connected to your material, but also know your people, the people you're communicating to.

If you don't find ways to.

To break the ice.

You know, that's the concept of create connection.

It's a pretty powerful baseline human instinct, isn't it?

To be seen, to be heard, to be known.

Yes, yes, certainly is.

Whether you're having coffee with a friend at the coffee shop and you're communicating something meaningful or a small group or a larger audience.

And Jesus, he did that.

Right.

He was able to make people feel special in that way.

Yes, of course.

On the other hand, too, because it knew people's hearts.

He also had run ins with the Pharisees a lot because they were.

They opposed him and opposed Grace.

It was, you know, all legalism.

And, you know, it's something.

Brian, also, I've noticed that people want more connection post Covid.

Oh, it's because, you know, we.

I don't know about on Ohio, but here in Canada, we were shut down for months and months and months and months and people hunger for that relational connection.

So this is really a wonderful time where people are much more open to those connections.

And, you know, whether church is focusing on Sunday school classes or small groups, whatever, it's a real opportunity to capitalize on what I believe is an increased desire for connection.

Because we were without her for so long.

Yeah, there was such a disconnect.

I mean, yeah, the hunger has been heightened and amplified big time.

So it's an opportunity to.

To really serve those we're communicating with.

To connect with them in that way and in an authentic way.

Right?

We're not talking about.

Yes, absolutely.

Yeah.

It's not fake.

People see through that quickly.

Yeah.

Yeah.

They can sense it and sniff it out for sure.

Hey, can we pull away for just a moment?

And then we'll get right back to the balance of this conversation with Dr. Charles Stone.

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So Affinity, creating connection.

I love that.

And so, I mean, you know, you could think about it like, I don't know, fix the wiring.

If you want some kind of a currency to flow between two different people or a group and a speaker or something sort of got to fix the wiring.

You know, make sure the connection is there.

That it.

So that it can happen.

Yeah.

Otherwise we get that 95% thing.

Right.

Wow.

And what about emotion?

Now there's, you know, IQ that's always been around intelligent quotient and recently there's been EQ emotional quotient.

Engaging people, engaging at the heart level.

What about that?

How did Jesus use that?

How did he model it?

And what's that message for us?

Yeah, I think if we could have been a fly on the wall and heard Jesus preach, His preaching was, I think with great passion.

When I say passion, I don't mean that he, he yelled, you know, that kind of thing.

But there was such passion that came through his preaching and teaching that it arrested the attention of others because they said several.

We're in the book of Mark.

And when he began his public ministry, he went to the synagogue in Capernaum and he started preaching and people said, who is this person that preaches with authority?

They were dumbfounded because the scribes and Pharisees didn't preach like that.

Yeah, there's certainly maybe presented good information, but it was dry and passionless.

So yeah, emotion not only is from the communicator where we preach with our teach or we talk with passion and conviction.

Again, it's not, not overbearing kind of decibel level thing.

Yeah, but that's part of it as well.

But also on the other end is that scientists are finding out how powerful emotional learning is.

It's not just presenting the facts, but it's doing it in the context of connecting deeply with the heart.

For example, there's something called light bulb learning.

Now I remember exactly where I was when the Challenger exploded.

I remember exactly when 9, 11 occurred.

I was in California.

It was earlier in the morning.

My son called me and he said, dad, turn on the tv.

I think it's Armageddon.

I still remember that time in that place, those kind of things where this light bulb learning.

Yeah, for sure.

That's one thing.

We're not talking about necessarily creating that situation in a, you know, in a 20 minute talk.

You may be able to, but kind of tough to do that.

But rather emotions actually are powerful in helping material stick, helping conversations stick.

So that's one part of emotion, engaging the heart.

Not only your heart communicating, but engaging the heart of the listener.

But there's another part, part that I call that I put in this category.

It's, it's called cognitive dissonance.

Okay.

What that means is if you're presenting, you're wanting people to evoke change, you know, by the power of the Holy Spirit evoke change in them.

If you're too far ahead of them, you lose them.

You've lost their mind, you've lost their attention, you've lost their.

Their heart too far.

You don't want to be so far out of your.

Listen.

Yeah.

That they give up before you finish.

So it's kind of backing up and really giving thought in preparation.

I'm thinking here about.

Of a speech or talk or message giving thought to that.

Like, am I presenting something that is too big of a chunk to bite off?

Okay.

Too big of a leap.

Yeah.

Now certain space, you know, you don't want to just like not challenge, but make sure that your challenge to them does not overload their minds and their.

And their emotion.

That I am not really interested.

I can't do this.

So that's called limiting the impact of cognitive dissonance.

And one more piece to emotion is well placed stories.

Hello, good stories.

Jesus did that.

They were called the parables.

Of course, we don't have everything Jesus said and he certainly had more stories and more parables he used.

But that's a powerful way to communicate emotion.

Because what happens is when someone hears a story that we tell for telling a good story, telling it well, they're entering into that story and they're like players in that story.

So they're engaging their mind and their heart, their whole being, except, you know, maybe their hands are not running or you know, like that, but their whole internal being is engaged in that story because they become an actor in that story.

So that's another practical way to use emotion and engage the heart.

Using well placed stories.

I love that.

And stories tend to use like the, you know, the theater of the mind imagery.

Right.

And symbolism.

Yes.

Which is extremely powerful.

And back to the cognitive dissonance piece.

So are you saying that as a leader and if you're communicating, obviously if you're communicating something to anybody, you're wanting to move together with them on something, it seems.

Right.

Or you're wanting to bring them along from A to B.

So you're saying that we should just.

Be a step or two maybe ahead of them.

Right.

And not miles and miles of.

Yes.

Let me just give an example.

Let's say you're bringing a message on the importance of having a.

A devotional time every day.

Okay.

Quiet time.

You know, it's called different things.

And let's say you kind of have a sense that probably 75% of people out there don't really do that.

They may read a One minute thing, daily bread, and that's it.

Yep.

And you want to encourage them to do more out of a starting gate.

If you say, listen, next week, I challenge you to spend an hour a day with God, you have lost them.

Yeah.

You've lost most people.

Now there's that onesie.

And Tuesday, they'll, oh, okay, I'll try that.

It's like when I do a message, I come out of it with practical points and I say, okay, let's say if I had six practical points to doing a devotional, you know, or maybe six obstacles that keep you from doing a devotional.

Say, okay, here's my challenge.

Five days this week, just pick one of those.

Just one.

And do that and have five to ten minutes.

Three days this next week, a devotional time.

You can do that.

You really can do that.

That gives them sense.

Like, you know, I really, really can do that.

Then I say, and then after that week, maybe bump it up to four days a week.

So it's what you're saying.

You want to just say a couple of steps ahead, give them hope that I can do this.

And this really ties into it.

Some of the other principles, but that's.

That's the cognitive distance piece.

Not too much or you'll lose them.

Not too much.

And, you know, when you're really passionate about something and really motivated, you can easily not appreciate that gap, you know?

Yeah.

I have noticed that you assume that they're just right there with you and they're not.

You know, maybe you assume they're as excited and motivated about it as you are, but they're not at all.

And I have.

This is a real something for me.

It's not that I'm motivated about everything like I should be and, you know, advanced and all this.

It's not that.

It's just that I know that there are probably some topics or niches or something that I have assumed, you know, too much, and they're probably not coming along.

Like I.

Like I would want or have thought, even with parenting.

Right.

I mean.

Oh, sure, I have read back into, like.

Well, when I was 20, I was this way.

But that doesn't work well with.

Yeah.

With your kids.

I mean, I don't say that, but.

I just think it, you know, but it's not.

It's not true.

And they're probably more advanced than me in some ways, too.

When I was.

Well, I love that emotion drives action.

Right.

So, I mean.

Yeah, yeah.

You know, you've heard a little word play.

I'm sure that Emotion, you know, the word motion is in emotion.

And to move the heart is to create action.

Okay, so that first one we're highlighting then is affinity.

Creating connection.

Know, like and trust.

Cultivating that authentically, really connecting with the recipient of the person you're communicating with.

And now this one emotion.

Engaging the heart, not just the mind.

And now let's highlight number eight, if we could, stimulating life application.

Making that transfer.

Now what?

Okay, how can we.

How should we think about that?

Yeah.

In a speech or a talk or a message or a Bible study.

The goal is not just to disseminate information.

You know, the responsibilities on the teacher, it's not on the student, really.

Well, yeah, student has to take some role in this too.

But the main responsibility is that the teacher sees that learning occurs.

Learning means that something happens outside the classroom.

Except maybe all calculus.

That's maybe an exception.

But in a Christian setting, you want.

Your goal would be for the recipient, the listener, to take away something that they could apply during the day.

Change their belief system, they'll change their value.

That'll help them move a notch forward in behavior change.

So that's what transfer is.

Stimulate life application.

How do we do that?

Well, again, the onus is on the communicator who puts together the talk to include some of these concepts and principles so that the listener can remember to do that called prospective memory.

Remember to do something in the future.

Prospective memory.

And there's some ways you can do that, like simple clues.

Like I teach a course on coaching the brain, and I designed this little acronym called store.

S T O R R. It's store misspelled, but it uses a little store.

And so I say imagine this little store.

It's full of brain hacks, just full of brain hats.

And the S D O R R refers to words related to some of these brain hacks so that they can remember the little house.

And then that can prompt them to remember at least some of these words in the acronym.

So it's helping, giving them cues that they can take with them that when they think of something or they of the subject, it goes to that cue which goes to the challenge.

The behavioral change or the value change.

Now one of the things that we do sometimes is we'll have printed up little business size cards that maybe have one or two questions about the message people leave from our service.

We give them one of those.

They're real cheap to get printed.

So that's kind of the cue.

I say, you know, tape it on your refrigerator, tape it on your dashboard.

Let that be the cue for you to think about this question or for you to do this little project for that week.

So just thinking creatively how to help people take away something from your message that they will remember to do or think about that next week rather than, you know, at lunch.

Like, what did the pastor talk about?

See, what is it about?

The Bible, right?

Bible of Jesus.

Yeah.

Yes.

Well, hopefully it was more detailed than that.

That's interesting.

Now what?

So like, if you're talking with a grandchild and you're really seeking to transfer something of value to them that you want them to take into their future.

I just love that way of thinking.

What do you want them to do beyond this conversation or this Bible study, this training session, whatever, outside the classroom or outside the venue, you know, what do you want them to, you know, what are you hoping they will advance on and move on?

And so you're saying even cues, little boy memory hooks or acronyms or cards.

Yes, anything to stimulate that.

Yes, absolutely.

Those little simple things that you can do, you can do that to your grand, grand child.

Like, hey, here's a, you know, I'm just making this up.

A fake dollar.

It's important to learn to tie, let's say.

So I want you to take this on your dresser to remind you.

And this week you come to me and I'm going to give you three little projects that I'm going to pay you to do so that you'll have money to buy candy or whatever, but also money that you give back to the Lord, which is helping them remember in the future that prospective memory what you want them to do.

That's, that's the cue.

Prospective memory.

So normally we think of memory as looking back, right?

Yes.

Right.

And what's the short definition of prospective memory?

Again, it's remembering to do something in the future.

That's prospective memory.

Interesting.

Prospective memory.

And I suppose that just as a general principle in life, it would be, we would be healthier if we focused more on prospective memory then.

Exactly.

Necessarily.

Always.

Look, I love this.

And let's just touch on one more, just for a moment, if you don't mind.

Number seven.

You talk about creating confidence, you talk about acting with a contagious spirit.

What about that?

What about creating a positive contagion?

Yeah, there's something called emotional contagion.

Okay.

And it basically says that people will catch your emotions.

That's true.

If you, if you're an influencer, like a business leader or a father, mother, a pastor, people will catch your emotions.

Good.

And Bad.

Give you a quick illustration.

When I lived in Illinois, I went to a hamburger place they said had good hamburgers.

And I went up and ordered like, number two, which was a hamburger and a medium prize and, you know, pay for it.

The guy was at the cash register.

He's pretty grumpy.

Anyway, must be had a bad day.

So I, you know, stood and waited on my order, and I got my order, and it was a small thing of french fries.

I said, oh, sir, I'm sorry, but I ordered a medium.

Well, that guy looked at it and he turned around to the cook in the back, and he yelled at him.

You were supposed to give him a medium fries, not a small fry.

And then the guy kind of yelled back at him.

I later found out that the guy at the cash register was the owner of the place.

So he had set the tone.

His emotional contagion had set the tone.

So when you.

When you're.

When you're before in a venue before, others don't apologize.

Like, oh, man, you know, I just.

I didn't get much sleep last night, so this is not going to be very good.

Or if you come up, you're mad because you're still ticked off because of some issue that happened at home.

Bring that positive, encouraging spirit because people will cast.

If you're grumpy, you start out grumpy.

The people are not going to repay attention to you.

So cultivate confidence in your.

Your listener that they can do what you want them to do.

And the enthusiasm you bring helps them believe, hey, I can do this.

I really can do that.

I mean, I guess you would say that as an influencer, as a leader, as a communicator, that we need to transcend.

Transcend these things, don't we?

We need to be disciplined.

So if we had a conflict at home or if we're going through a very stressful time in the small business and we don't know how we're going to meet payroll or something, you know, that we are able to remain in that higher place.

Yeah, yeah, that's tough.

The exception is there's still the authenticity.

Sometimes you're going to have a bad day.

You're not necessarily faking it.

Sometimes in a message, I come and say, folks, you know, it's been a really, really tough week.

You know, maybe we had to take our daughters to the hospital.

Now, that builds empathy.

But you're not bringing this man, this angry downer kind of thing.

You're bringing authenticity.

So those.

That's another part of helping your listener Be endeared to you that you're a real person.

You've had some struggles, but it's not every Sunday.

It's not every Monday morning, Tuesday, Wednesday in the office.

That's what you want to avoid.

And it's bitter, right?

It's not.

It's not.

It's not bitter and toxic.

Because we do cast a shadow over that which we lead or over those that we communicate with.

Yes.

And this is almost like.

Would you say this is almost like an intangible spiritual thing that happens that we actually sort of, for good or bad, we move in a certain spirit, if you will.

Yes.

Well, there's something called mentalizing, which is what I call one of the silent senses God has given us.

And that's the ability that we have to intuit the feelings and thoughts and intentions of others.

We kind of just sense that.

And that's based on, I think, the Holy Spirit working in us.

It's based on something called the insula deep inside our brain.

It's based on our ability to kind of sense and see micro facial expressions, all those kinds of.

So, yes, it's combination spiritual sensitivity, but also the way God want our brains and how we pay attention to others and what we notice.

It's just really more of a Hebraic mindset.

Right.

Of what it is to be a human.

We can't compartmentalize, like, areas of, like, discernment or spirituality from physicality.

Right.

And from just exactly one unit.

Yeah.

It's all.

It's all together.

And I love how, you know God when he's the sanctification process or the.

Or the quest for wholeness that he has us on.

It just touches that.

It's integrated, you know, the entirety of our human experience.

I really appreciate this.

It's challenging.

It's challenging as a husband, a father.

It's challenging if you're leading a group or something or a business or whatever.

It's positively challenging that we can up our game with communication.

Jesus shows us a lot.

Would you mind praying over us?

Sure.

This.

You've.

You've obviously carved out this space of awareness and education and the Lord using you in a very unique way with this topic, these themes.

Would you just pray over us that we would do better?

Yeah.

Thank you.

You bet.

I'll do that right now.

Father, I thank you so much for technology that allows us to have these conversations and tape them and get them out for others to listen.

And Lord, I thank you for designing us the way you have designing our brain and giving us the ability to think, form words and form sentences and form things that we want to say and communicate.

Thank you for the beauty of language, Lord.

Sometimes we don't use it well and it's the root of so many relational issues.

Lord, I pray for the listeners of this podcast that you might take a nugget or two from our conversation and maybe an encouragement and a blessing to that listener that your Holy Spirit would take these insights and just embed them deep into all of us.

Already know.

I've written on it and practice it.

I've got a long way to go myself.

But you have shown us your your way of communicating with, with, with perfection really through the Gospels as we see how Jesus taught and how he told stories and how he challenged and may we learn from him as the quintessential teacher of all teachers.

And we give this whole process of communication into your hands.

Remind us that's a gift from you.

We want to steward it well.

We pray this in your name.

Amen.

Christ is reigning.

Go live like it.

This has been Jesus Smart X with Brian Del Turco.

Until next time.