Hey there, listener! Thank you for checking out our older seasons! We're adding this note on the top of the show notes to keep you up-to-date with the show. Connect with Jen Amos and get bonus content when you subscribe to our private podcast show, Inside the Fort by US VetWealth, at http://insidethefort.com/

Last Updated: September 2, 2024

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136: "Our definition of success is redefined by our family, not by what is expected of the norm." Transitioning to do something that matters with Genevieve and Chris Kruger

It's an overwhelming and exciting time for Genevieve and Chris Kruger as they are months away from retirement! As a retiring career military family, they share how they strategically planned for their transition - years in advance, their definition of success, how they sustained their marriage with faith and counseling, a glimpse into their plans for post-military life, and much more.

Contact Genevieve and Chris:

• https://www.linkedin.com/in/genevievekruger/
• https://www.facebook.com/genevieve.m.kruger

Resources

• Veteran Wealth Secrets: The Post-Military Playbook for Obtaining Autonomy and Financial Control in the Modern Economy by Scott R. Tucker https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08HM61QLR/ref=cm_sw_r_tw_dp_4CBEKVM53841APBGFXQ1
• Military OneSource https://www.militaryonesource.mil/
• USO Pathfinder® Transition Program https://www.uso.org/programs/uso-pathfinder-transition-program 
• It’s a Military Life Cohort Immersion Program https://itsamilitarylife.org/cohort-immersion-program/ 

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RETURNING FALL 2023

The award-winning podcast, Holding Down the Fort by US VetWealth, is returning for Season 7 in Fall 2023 to share inspiring stories of service and self-sufficiency from the military community! This show is a must-listen for military servicemembers and families interested in pursuing financial autonomy while serving our nation.

The show is very excited to announce its new partnership with The Rosie Network, which will include featuring the stories of Service2CEO Cohort Members. Read more about this exciting partnership at https://issuu.com/therosienetwork/docs/me_mag_2023/16

Our main sponsor US VetWealth is proud to announce their newest FREE resource hub: Military Retirement Blueprint — the perfect knowledge library for career retiring military officers who want to make the most of their retirement. This specialized program provides training, guides, consulting, investment-grade insurance strategies, financial & retirement planning, and more. Join for FREE today by visiting: https://usvetwealth.com/war-chest-learning-center-access-the-military-retirement-blueprint/

Stay connected and get the latest updates from our Holding Down the Fort by US VetWealth community by subscribing to our newsletter: http://eepurl.com/gTTOdT Questions? Email jen@holdingdownthefortpodcast.com

In August 2022, Jen Amos' work on the podcast was recognized by Disney Institute and she was hand-selected as the only non-Disney employee to moderate the first Military Spouse Employment panel for the Veterans Institute Summit. March 2022, Jenny Lynne has voted the 2022 Naval Station Norfolk Armed Forces Insurance Military Spouse of the Year. November 2020, Jen Amos was awarded “Media Professional of the Year” at The Rosie Network Entrepreneur Awards! The show continued to collect award nominations in the following years. In September 2021, the show made the Final Slate in the 16th Annual People's Choice Podcast Awards for the Government & Organizations category. In November 2021, the show was an Award Finalist for the 5th Annual National Veteran & Military Spouse Entrepreneur Awards. December 2021, the show was a Golden Crane Podcast Awards Nominee. September 2022, the show was a Finalist for the 13th Annual Plutus Awards presented by Capital Group for “Best Military Personal Finance Content.”

Holding Down the Fort has also been featured in multiple media outlets including Military Entrepreneur (M.E.) Magazine, MOAA’s Never Stop Learning Podcast, The Leadership Void Podcast, Lessons Learned for Vets Podcast, Sisters in Service Podcast, Get 2 Vet, Blue Star Families of Dayton & Southwestern Ohio, Legacy Magazine, U.S. Veterans Magazine, The American MilSpouse, VeteranCrowd Network, It's a Military Life, VirtForce, Military Veteran Dad Podcast, and much more.

Enjoy our show? Kindly leave us a written 5-Star review on Apple Podcasts https://apple.co/30SJ7NW, Podchaser https://bit.ly/3dnCacY, or write a LinkedIn Recommendation for Jen Amos https://www.linkedin.com/in/jenamos/edit/forms/recommendation/write/

Jen Amos 0:00

All right. Hey everyone. Welcome back to another episode here at the award winning podcast show holding down the fort. I'm your creator, and co host, Jenn Amos. And as always, I have my amazing co host with me, Jenny Lynn Jennylyn Welcome back.

Unknown Speaker 0:12

Hey, glad to be here today. Yes.

Jen Amos 0:14

And I have to say I like your audio.

Speaker 1 0:16

Oh, I know. It's much bigger on the screen. I'm actually watching it scroll by which is fun. Yeah, we had a lot of audio issues last week for no one could hear me. So on my little lines, there's Yeah,

Jen Amos 0:27

so you're you're overcompensating today by if a like, our listeners can't see this, but the wavelengths in her audio is just like, expanded. It's amazing. Like, I feel like I have to like force my voice into the mic just to kind of be up to par with you. Anyway, we'll see how that goes. Good thing is that we have an editor. Thank you, Dennis, for being able to normalize our audio levels, so that one of us doesn't always sound like louder or quieter than the other.

Unknown Speaker 0:49

Yeah. Does he ever slow you down, though, so that we're talking at the same rate of speed?

Jen Amos 0:53

Speaker 1 1:01

Fun fact, for our listeners, you're not listening to us on 1.5 or two. It's just Jen's normal rate of speed.

Jen Amos 1:10

I just, I just feel like there's so much I want to share. And but it's great, because the thing about being a host is I don't have to talk all the time. So, you know, I feel like maybe the reason why I'm talking so much is because I'm trying to like fit in everything before I have the guest talk. But all that being said, I'm gonna go ahead and stop myself now. Because Jenny Lynn and I are really excited to bring our second couple ever aside from you and Matthew Jennylyn on to hold down the fort, to share their story. They're actually about five months away from their transition to post military life crazy time, I can't even believe they have time to be here today to tell us about their journey. I just feel like this is way too crazy of a time. But I do appreciate them taking the time to be here. So without further ado, we have Genevieve and Chris Krueger on our call today. So Genevieve and Chris, welcome. Hi.

Unknown Speaker 1:56

Thank you. Thanks for having me. Yes. And

Jen Amos 1:57

I'll tell our listeners a little bit about both of you today. So you two have been together for almost 18 years, which is amazing. Married 16 years this July. How exciting. I'm sure you will have a fun anniversary celebration coming up. Yeah. You're like Fred Mercer, let's just pack the house. Like, that's great. But what I extremely admire about your relationship is that you know, as a couple, you've gone on six deployments together, you have two daughters together and one for baby cat. I just got a cat. But that's a conversation for another time. And you've done four PCs moves as a family. In general, you both have been through a lot as a couple. And I want you guys to dive more into your background a little bit later. But my first question I want to ask for you both is what are your initial thoughts? Like just, you are five months out from transitioning? Genevieve, I want to start with you,

Speaker 2 2:49

in one word, overwhelmed. over everything that I've got going on right now, and I've just I'm stirring a pot of just everything between trying to figure out new schools, we just finally got a house. So we at least have an address. But I am overwhelmed. Wow, lots still, my list is endless. Oh, that's

Jen Amos 3:10

crazy. Chris, how about you?

Speaker 3 3:12

I think I was at that overwhelmed point a year ago. And then I really had to take a step back. So I was doing all the Soldier for Life Transition Assistance Program classes. Because I was doing it so far out, it was just kind of like getting my hopes up, and then kind of crashing them because that was

Unknown Speaker 3:34

the story of military life right there hidden.

Speaker 3 3:39

So far up, but then it was like, you can get so much knowledge or information and stuff. And then there's not a whole lot you can do with it at that time. So I finally just had to take a step back and be like, Okay, I'm gonna take the stress off of me, and just kind of focus on the next steps in front of me and things like that, which were still work at the time. And then, but as far as now goes, I'm ready. I finally printed out the last paperwork, I need to final out already. And I still got 115 days to go till that final up day. So I'm like, I'm ready. And I have all the paperwork ready, I just gotta clear and get out of here. So that's what I'm focused on at the moment. And I'm ready for that stuff. While we're, you know, covering all of their stressors between now and moving to that next place. So

Jen Amos 4:27

yeah, you know, this year, our theme for holding our This season, our theme for holding on the floor is answering the question, when are we going to get out? And so I think that having you both on couldn't have come at a better time, genuinely. And I know that you and Matthew are starting to ask each other that question. So what are your initial thoughts

Speaker 1 4:44

on the daily this tour is making us ask that on the daily I mean, when we think about getting out I think it's that interestingly enough, I was having a conversation earlier today with someone about like how Oftentimes military members feel like especially the ones that went straight from high school, in their parents house, like into the military, have this false assumption of like, oh my gosh, all the people I graduated with are so much farther down the road than me like they're in their real adult life. And I've done this thing. I mean, for two decades plus the like, I'm just beginning and it's this very scary, like, headspace. And also this, like, oh, my gosh, what have I done for 20 years? Like, how come I'm not as far as you know, this person I graduated with. And I know that, as Matthew has progressed in his career, and we've, you know, continued to live this military life, we've had those conversations to have like, oh, my gosh, if I had, you know, stayed in my hometown, I could be running. One of his buddies, like, manages this, like restaurant chain, and he's like, got this huge house and Matthews, like, what am I doing with my life, and I'm like you have served, and we have done a lot of things that we would not have done if this were not your career path. And so I think, you know, for us, it's really adjusting those expectations on like, I mean, he's 15 years in. So theoretically, we're looking at five fish years left, depending, but it's starting to have that dream of like, what do I want to do with my adult life? And also, like, really tempering expectations of like, No, we have actually lived a 20 year adult life, like, we've done the thing. And this gets to be like the second act. And so what do we want that to look like? Because it's much more in our hands versus, you know, orders and all of those things?

Jen Amos 6:34

Yeah, definitely. You know, Genevieve, I know, in your former life, you were a high school English teacher. And actually, even before that, you didn't want to be a teacher, you actually wanted to pursue something different. And so here you are, you know, we're about five months away from you both transitioning and I know that post military life for you is a way to maybe one reinvent yourself, but to maybe rediscover those old passions. So tell us a little bit about that.

Speaker 2 6:57

Yeah. After being in the classroom for about five years, yeah, because I did a stent of Sylvan Learning Center. You know, I really embrace the mommyhood life. So after Chris and I, and he switched careers, from infantry to aviation, and we knew we're taking our first PCs from North Carolina to Alabama. We both had agreed we talked about it before that I'd stay home with the kiddos. And so that was a big transition, you know, coming from being a career woman, to full stay at home mom. So at the time that all this was happening, that big transition timeframe, he was learning how to do a new job as a pilot, I'm learning how to be a mom, I'm learning how to stay at home. So there was a lot of that transition time that I had to get through. And then once I got to the groove of mommy hood, you know, realized in a blink of an eye, it was gone. So I mean, not gone. But you know, it's, it's passed by so fast that here we are, we have a 12 year old, almost 13 year old. And my next kiddo, she's she's going to be 10 this summer that now I actually get to look at the other end of it and go, ooh, what do I get to do? You know, so there's a lot of things that I hadn't had a chance to really touch before because I was inundated with the kids being at home preschool just being mom and enjoying that time. But now on that back end, you know, Chris gets to get out. And I get to look at the career side going ooh, what can I do is there's a lot of opportunities that are out there for us, military spouses, that's great. But then it can also be overwhelming, because then go, oh, you can do this. Or you can get into this school, if you want to, you can, you know, dabble into that. So I'm getting to see that and get to discover that. But also, I got to take it day by day, because that was some of the conversation we were having today. As I said, I'm at a point where there's almost too much information at me. Yeah. And I'm overwhelmed. Like, what my tackle first what's priority? So I think right now, I got to kind of look back as well with Chris and go. Okay, let me move my house first.

Jen Amos 8:44

Awesome. Well, Genevieve, thank you so much for sharing that. Chris, I am curious to know, from your perspective, because, you know, very often we hear the spouse perspective on the show and how they had, you know, for lack of better explanation, willingly chose to, let's say, be a stay at home spouse or kind of put their career on the side, you know, so that your career can come first. And so what has that been like for you to have this discussion with Genevieve and to even just witness her choosing to be a stay at home mom for the last 13 years?

Speaker 3 9:14

Well, it was something we talked about beforehand, together. And we had been, I think it was with maybe like a church group discussion first where it was, you know, we had heard my wife works, but the only reason she works is to pay for the gas, the childcare and all these things that they're working for, to provide the fact that the kids being taken care of by someone outside of the house, and then when they decided to be a stay at home mom, and didn't travel, didn't have to do all those things that didn't work. Everything met up in the middle and was okay. And they still made it just fine. So we talked about those things pretty heavily beforehand. We decided together, you know that that's the route we were gonna take. And it wasn't easy by any means. But once we decided upon it, that's the route we were gonna go, that it worked out in the long run through any difficulties, it really did, you know, we were really blessed that it worked out, going that route and discussing it together and deciding, hey, this is what we're gonna have to do. And these are the, you know, there's certain sacrifices you're gonna have to make on either end of that. Really? Yeah. You know, to work and do childcare and things. There's obviously sacrifices on one way or another that you're gonna have to make so, so yeah, it was something we discussed, we didn't just decide, hey, you know, I arrived and just decide, or she didn't just decide I'm going to or you're going to stay home and be with the kids. You know, it was something we came to together.

Yeah, I can just feel the partnership that you two have amongst each other. And that open conversation and dialogue, it seems I mean, I'm sure there's more to it. I'm sure I'm just only looking at the tip of the iceberg here. But you know, the fact that you know, Genevieve, you sent me your your notes that you and Chris wanted to talk about before the show. I was like, wow, that is cool. But I could really feel that united front that you to have that just like what you said, Chris was probably the reason why you're able to go through whatever you went through trials, tribulations and everything. Genuine. I know that you and Matthew talk a lot about a lot of things clearly, obviously, being in the communication space, both of you. I'm curious if you have any thoughts on what Genevieve and Chris have shared.

I mean, we have a very similar story. I was an elementary school teacher, and Matthew started workups. For his first deployment, we had a one year old, and I was pregnant with our second. And my work environment was not awesome. And it was like, you know, what are we working for? Are we working for childcare and a little bit extra. And so I ended up resigning my position at the elementary school to be a stay at home mom. And that was definitely a conversation we had, you know, that we made together. And over the years that evolved, I found that while I have zero desire to go back in the classroom and teach, like, I did want something and so there have been different points during this where I've worked part time, or I've done something for a short amount of time, because I actually found that transition to full time stay at home mom, oh, I can say in hindsight, that was much more difficult for me than I thought it was going to be. And then I gave myself credit for in the time, because I've always worked. My dad was an independent business owner, I've worked since I was 13. You know, and so that was really tough for me. And then I've learned especially now being a fully remote worker for my current position, like I really love people. And being in the house with two very small people who don't talk to you and have conversation was much more difficult than I anticipated. So, you know, I've been really fortunate to have a partner that goes, Hey, I think maybe you should look at doing something else. Anything else go out there and find some people, you know, and sometimes that look like volunteer positions and running like mops groups, or you have volunteered for every military organization under the sun, you know, and sometimes that was enough. And now, you know, I mean, I work full time, and I love it. And that has come with its own challenges being a military family. So

well, if I can jump in real quick to I think it's, um, definitions of success, you know, the, the world defines success as a contribution and what mainly monetary value, right? So there's not a whole lot of feeling of success in this, you know, motherhood or parenting at home, whether it is, you know, the male or female portion of the spouse, you know, doing it so, and that was something, you know, that we've had to reassure along the lines, like, hey, our success is going to be defined differently than other people's as our kids academic achievements and things like that. And we're not putting that as the pedestal you know, of our kids were the smartest kids in class or anything like that, but that they're, you know, well within their grades when they're in school and things like that, that everything's okay. And all that. So I think, you know, it's just hard to see what the norm is, and then break from that. And do your own family dynamic, then you have to redefine what is success for your family when you're not doing what's expected of the norm to so yeah, yeah.

Oh, for sure. Well, then you add in like that military culture life. And there is I mean, still an expectation that like, that's what the spouse is going to do. And if you're not happy doing that, there's something wrong with you. And so there's a whole stigma there where like, it's hard to even redefine that success as your own family because you're like, well, everybody says, I should really love this than I should be just fine moving every two years and you know, being hacked being fortunate enough and no one can see my air quotes being fortunate. stay home with my children every day. And I mean, it does, it takes a lot of communication. And I mean, I will once again throw in a plug for couples counseling, don't wait till you're in crisis, like, go when you have to have these kinds of conversations and help talk through it. Because I mean, that's what is really, you know, helped my own military marriage, like, at first survive, and now Thrive was having that, you know, learning how to communicate those things. Well, like, Hey, this is harder than I thought it would be. And I don't love it like I thought I would or like everybody else thinks I should. So what do we you know, where do we go as a family from

here? Genevieve just wanted to see if you had anything you wanted to add?

No. I mean, we go hours on those topics? For sure.

Awesome. I mean, what a conversation. And I think part of why I'm trying to like not talk 1000 miles per hour is because like, again, it's very rare that we have a couple on our show. And so the next question I really want to get into is your own individual transition journeys. Because very often, when we think about transition, we think about the service member. And a lot of times it's a service member having to relay information down to the spouse, about what they went through in their classes, their transition classes and everything. But it's obviously so much more than that. And so Chris, I want to start with you tell us a little bit about your transition journey so far. And I know you both already hinted at, you know, having started this like five years ago, but now that you're five months away, how would you say your transition journey has been different from Genevieve and the Genevieve, I'll ask you the same question next.

Yeah. Um, I wouldn't say that it's even just been different from Jenny's journey, but just different from other service members journeys, in general, since we've also talked about and discussed about me not having to jump into work right away, and to be able to take that time off, you know, with all those deployments and everything else. With counseling and all those other things, I think it's just a good idea for me to be able to, at least take all that terminal leave time I have and just be like, breathe, you know, just okay, you know, and I'm already kind of starting that process now by trying to, you know, duck out whenever I can, and just be around and all that, and prepping myself for that next phase too. But you know, that we started so far in advance, talking about it getting ready. And just preparing ourselves financially, mentally, and all that stuff. I think it's made it a lot easier, you know, getting into it now rather than hurriedly running to the end of the race at the last minute and all that. So

yeah, I am curious to know, and Genevieve, feel free to answer this. How did you to decide five years ago? How did you know it was time to start? Looking ahead.

I think he was already looking at about 2022 years and uses over 20 Reddit?

Yeah, I think I kind of initially was like, alright, we had kind of like a 20 year plan, right, a 20 to 23 year plan, and then a potentially a 25 year plan, right? While I was deployed, long story, things happened. And I called Jenny around March of 2020. So about this time two years ago, and I just flat out said, summer 2022, we're done. And she goes, that's all I need. There was a date. And then I dove into the whole story is like the story. But so we had, you know, one of three plans was happening. And it was the summer of 2022 was the one that was happening. Yeah.

Oh, wow.

But I think that, I mean, we had kind of talked about, okay, well, let's start looking at finances, let's look at what the future is going to bring. So I think that was where our planning really came in. Funny enough, you know, the friends that you have from prior infantry days, and then just friends that you meet along the way, they're always useful and part of your life. And so it was great that Tim was one of his old battle buddies from basic training training in a financial planner, and Chris was able to reach out to him and he's been helping us with finances for the last five years now. Even makes me so happy. You know, just discussions of Okay, let's start budgeting basically, what do we need to pay off? What things do we need to kind of make sure that we have so that when that timeframe does come we're not scrambling and we're not going to be hurting when we don't have enough or what look like once you retire so I think we were looking as far as we can and planning that far out. And then going from five years to three years to two years to now that six months. I mean, we've been prepping for all of this stuff that now it's not as scary because we know okay, we've got a plan B A, we've got a plan all the way to z if we need to have some things that could potentially happen and what we can do to make sure we're good

yeah, luckily plan like II is The one that's playing? Yeah. But do we didn't have to roll with too many of them so far. So that's pretty good.

I'm in admiration of all the plans that you had, because one of them is bound to work, right? Exactly. Yeah. And more importantly, I also just want to commend you both for having a financial advisor and doing it together. Because what we often find out our company, so us about wealth we work with Korean military families, about on their financial services, but very often, it's usually just like the service member or the veteran that comes and wants to make these financial decisions. And then when we're ready to bring the spouse and the spouse is often like, wait, what, what are you doing? Like, I don't want to do that. And so to see you both as United Front, getting help together, and I know genuine like you and Matthew started to do this as well. I just want to applaud you both for doing that. And I hope that more couples can do that together. Because it is I mean, the transition is really hard time. But if you don't have that united front, it makes it that much harder, right?

Yeah. And we've done financial decisions together. We'll do like any financial mistake you can make, we've made it. And luckily, in the long run, they've kind of worked themselves out, breaking even type of policy on the whole thing. There was somewhere in the middle of that maybe I don't know, about 10 years ago, where I was just like we will do I don't care if it's buying a computer, we're doing it together, you know, unless I'm, you know, one of us is surprising. The other one was something you know, we're gonna sit down and discuss, you know, buying this pen, obviously, you can't see it. But you know, if it's this pen right here, we're discussing it together, and we're getting it. And you know, that's what it is at this point. Because there was too many times we're Why didn't like this that you got, and I didn't like that. Okay, let's not do that anymore. So we decided to move to where we're going and everything. We're all in it together. Not the other

gentleman, I know that you probably have some things you want to share, hearing that you're in full agreement of this conversation so far. Oh,

man. Well, I mean, I think you and Scott and I did a whole podcast on the multiple financial mistakes Matthew and I've made together and separately all under the banner of military marriage. revisit that whole story, but you know, yeah, I mean, Matthew and I did just start doing financial planning. And, you know, I think what I applaud, you know, Chris and Genevieve, for, like having the foresight to do it together. And to start, you know, well ahead of when you need it, per se, you know, but to anybody who's listening, like just know that none of these conversations come without some sort of costs, like I don't know, everybody's makeup of how you do finances in your house. But for the Stroop family, I have always handled the day to day. And Matthew has always handled the bigger stuff. Like he signs all the house paper, well, he reads all the house paperwork, and we both sign it. But like, I just trust that he read it, and I sign my name to it. But I know, every dollar spent on gas, every dollar spent on grocery, and he has no idea. And it's just how we've done things. And so when we made the decision to go with a financial planner, like I cried, I sat on our stairs and like looked at all of this paperwork we had put together to take to the office, and like Boo hood, and Matthew was like what is happening, and I was like, I've never had to turn this over. Like I have handled this. For 15 years, I've done this, and to turn it over and think that somebody else and and I understand that the way that I did it was not without mistake, and it was not perfect. But to like, let go of the control of like, all of our stuff and ask for help was really overwhelming for me. And so, you know, to folks listening, I want you to know, like, those conversations can be hard and also very fruitful. Like, we now do have a bunch, like we have a better plan and we did ask for help but like, it wasn't smooth. There were a lot of tears. And I think that's okay, you know, whatever your setup is like as long as you end up deciding to get together and figure out what that looks like for you just know that it's it may be a little messy, but it'll it'll all work out.

Wonderfully said. Like, I don't know what else to add other than Yay. I'm serious. Because like a lot of the work that we do at our company, it's often I'm when I'm with Scott and we're talking to clients, sometimes the spouse is on the side of the camera, like they don't want to be in the camera. So they're just like kind of listening in. And I like how you said genuine like, it's going to be a hard conversation. And that's okay, you're going to shed some tears. It's going to be hard But, you know, it's gonna be harder later if you continue to put it off. And so again, I just had to take a moment to commend, actually everyone here for being financially savvy and taking that initiative early on. So moving on, I know that we talked a little heavily about that. But I also want to commend you both Genevieve and crisp, you had mentioned that you were able to be debt free, you got your savings in place, you got your investments in place. I'm kind of speechless, because I feel like this is often something that we try to encourage people to do. But you too, had already figured it out. So I don't know if I feel like tongue tie. Like I don't even know what to say. Just just I commend you both just handed praising you both. For just

being able to do that. The the decision hasn't, you're right. Like gentleman said, it hasn't really been easy. And when we were looking at this even a year out, I knew that eventually I wanted to have something again, for me, I've been doing like genuine intent. I did a lot of volunteer stuff in that timeframe when the kiddos were young, and I just really needed to get out there. I did a lot of volunteer things just to meet the community, be in the community and be busy, because there's a lot of times too, and I had littles and Chris was deployed that I was like, I'm going nuts I need Yeah. So in that timeframe, I did gain so much experience and wonderful skills that is like, Okay, it's time. So when we started looking at that transition, and I told Chris, I'm like, I'd really like to go back to work. Thankfully, he wasn't pressuring me on that end. And at the same token, I was able to go, okay, cool. We've planned up so much, it is time for you to take a little breather, because he just needed that after working so long as so many deployment so many things. I didn't want him to be this big ball of stress, jumping from uniform to just whatever the next thing yeah, I'll be happy because I just already saw this been hard transition for him already just trying to get out of being in the Army mode. So if it could afford him that chance to do some detox time, maybe figure out reinvent himself figure out something else that he wants to do. That's not what he's been doing these last 13 years or so in the army. And then let me do something that was kind of our discussion today. I said, thankfully, he's not pressuring me like you got to go to work. So I don't have to Yeah, but it was enough that we can go cool. Let me find something. Because I want to work now. But there's no pressure on me to go you got to get something right away. Meanwhile, I know him, he's only going to sit for maybe three, four months until he finally I gotta go do something. So I know he's not going to be like a complete stay at home dad for years. It's only gonna last a couple years. Like fives like all right, I'm ready to do something.

Yeah, at least at least get it out of your system. Right, Chris? Stay home dad for like three months?

That was gonna be my question. Like, how long do you really think he's gonna sit? Probably October. Assuming that we have some friends that are like, I think it'd be great to go work at Home Depot. I'm like, do you though, like do work there? Don't you mean? Like run it and re manage the organization system and figure out a better schedule of things. Like, let's be real, you're never just gonna go run the checkout

that all ties in with the, you know, trying to maintain a debt free status, you know, we've ever bought the highest model of the top end car, you know, it came to toys, do is it a need or a want, you know, and then we you know,

because we like toys.

We still do and then but we've both honestly looked at each other and be like, do we really need that to both of us being like, Well, I really want it going in a frustrated sigh of fine. We both done that to each other and just kind of held each other accountable, I guess a bit to that point to go, okay. We don't need to spend the money on this particular thing right now. One specific example I can remember is our 10 year anniversary, I was wanting to get some nice gold bands to wear on our red ring fingers. And yeah, so it was gonna be a few $100 over 500 for the both of us anyway. And she even goes do we need those Can we just and I wanted to even surprise her with I was gonna say then we went and both got like tungsten carbide rings, you know that were 20 bucks or something like that. It's

just funny what you look at each other and go mmm, do I really need to spend that but then you justify it in other ways. Yeah,

I was like, I really wanted to do this and then I was like, Nah, you're right. I guess we don't really need you know, actual gold rings that we're probably not gonna wear but you know, just just a random example thing. But we've done that to each other many times over the years. And even if we had a car payment, we're like, alright, income tax return comes we're paying it on this car, you know, just all those other things where we're just like, we don't want to have those monthly payments and even coming into the new thing. The only you know payment we'll have is the house and our monthly bills to keep going so you know, we looked at All right my pension of 22 Two and a half years plus whatever disability comes out to, Okay, we're good, we'll be able to afford the house afford the bills and put food on the table. But the extras are going to be whatever, you know, for job and all that kind of stuff. So we know we can at least keep ourselves alive and in a comfortable state. On out anyways, so that was pretty much the goal that started, you know, five to seven years ago, maintain that we didn't do that, and to be able to have like, an emergency fund as well. So, yeah, so, you know, we're not Rockefeller retiring or anything like that, we're still, you know, we're still gonna be like, okay, you know, if there's an emergency, we'll be okay, for the most part and all that stuff. So, yeah, it has been a lot of give and take, it really has been. But it's been good. And we've definitely learned to pass on those things that we don't actually need to keep the things that we don't, yeah, don't actually need and keep the things we do need. So,

yeah, man, you know, I'm working in finance with my husband, and we are not on the same page to the level that you guys are so. Sure. I mean, he does like kind gestures, like, he'll come home with like cookies or something, and I got your favorite cookies. And I was like, Well, you know, I could have just had that money, though. Like, I could have bought cookies myself. So little things like that, or, I mean, he's all about like, survival. So he buys like, all these survival things. He's like, Hey, there's this like, outdoor stove. That's like, really light. And if you just put like sticks in it, it can create a little campfire. And I'm like, Are we like in an apocalypse, though, so I'm like, we do have this in our house, by the way. And he's like, he's like, only used it once. So we have this apocalyptic stove, outdoor stove that again, so I definitely feel like I can learn a lot from you, too. But also, because I know that you both coming as united front. There's a secret sauce behind it for both of you. And and there's two things that I know we talked about offline. The first one is your faith. And then the second one is counseling. So tell us a little bit. And if there's any more, let us know. But tell us a little bit more about the secret sauces, of faith in your mental health that have really helped you both, like continue to stay on the same page with each other,

ya know, a lot.

I mean, I wish I wish our listeners could see your faces.

You speak to any military couple, you know, you go through so many different challenges with deployments, just training. And every time they come back, it's a whole nother relearning and readjusting to that person. So there's been a lot of times over the years where we've not been together. And yeah, together physically or mentally, we just not meshed well. So we've needed help. Over the years, we tried marriage counseling, before we got married. We tried marriage counseling shortly after we had tried a few times a few times in the years. Yeah. It wasn't, it didn't help. There were some times I found it was when we did in separate, we will have separate counseling, to work on those specific things. Because I'll just be honest, I had some anger issues I had carried, he had some things that he needed to work on, especially after every deployment, there was always something that he just needed to tweak and work through. And then when we would have those separate counseling, then we would come together and have those discussions. And I mean, it's it hasn't been, there's no foolproof. I mean, we don't have a specific this has worked. We still find ourselves even, you know, weeks ago, you'll find ourselves going wait, say that again. I know you didn't say you didn't mean what you said, right, you know, like, so we're having to kind of re evaluate and go before this turn.

What do you mean, right? turns into an argument. Wait, let

me understand what you're trying to tell me. So to communicate,

and that's taken a long time. Yeah. I think there's normally that snap to conclusion.

But I think it's really important that we've had to seek counseling and not be ashamed to say that, okay, I need this for me. You need this for you. Let's do this together. So we've been over the years just trying to communicate I'm not gonna say that we there's times that we both want to be like don't I don't think be honest, any mirrors they'll be honest with you and say, Oh, we've loved each other for you know, the whole time so surely had challenges but now the Yeah, I think the big thing I can definitely give just as an advice is yeah, don't be ashamed to get that counseling because you whether you do it together, whether you work on some things, I could even use it now with all the transitioning and craziness I'm going through so it is helpful.

I think the faith portion boils down to we're committed to each other regardless, and that would really boil up the faith portion of it right there. In the counseling is a lot of humility to finally or especially for me to finally just say you know what, okay, all right. All right. I don't I don't have it together. I need some Oh, and then to say, you know, with the doctor's going, maybe you should try some medication and legal and like, okay, fine, I'll try some medication, you know, or, and all these other things that I didn't want to do, because I thought, Okay, I'm, I'm mentally strong, I have faith, I have all these things, I can just mentally power through it. And that was wrong, boils down to and I never really had any, you know, shame with that at all. But I just figured, you know, like, no, no, I'm not like regular people, or whatever, you know, I can just, I'm good to go, you know, but then come to find out, you know, I am just a guy and with things. So the counseling individually, I think was better than any couples counseling that we did. Not that I'm opposed to it. But we talked about yesterday was, a lot of times when we sat down for marriage counseling or couples counseling together, we could provide those right answers of we know what we're supposed to do, and then be like, Oh, you guys are fine. You'll work through it, everything's fine. And that's how they would pretty much any of the few times is done, couples counseling would end up like, Oh, you guys are all right, you just, you know, you just need a little checkup, the check engine lights on or whatever. And like, okay, and then we'd usually go have lunch after that make fun of whoever the counselor wasn't.

They weren't, they weren't experienced enough for you

to some amazing, older people and things like that do but it was just like, you know, we played the game, right? You know, got it. You can take it.

You guys, you guys knew how to come as a united front?

Yeah, I feel like you guys really the army version of being Matthew because this whole story, like we could tell as well, like, yeah, you know, we have sat in MIDI, a couples counseling office, and they've been like, Wow, you guys really am like, yeah, we know the words, we've been in recovery for 14 years, we've done this couch thing. 59 times, like, we're gonna say all the right things, nonetheless, we're going to get home and it's gonna hit the fan, like,

we know what we're supposed to do. But then when we get alone, then, you know, emotions get involved, and then we don't do it, we know what we're supposed to do. And then you know, we're left with the aftermath. And then it's like, too late to help after that. So whatever, but not whatever. Yeah, that's how it ends up working out a majority of the time. So I think

like, the important part is like the fact that you didn't give up on counseling, right? It's like, you cycle through different, you know, couples, counselors and individual ones, to be able to find what worked for you at that season of your life.

Yeah, yeah. And same for individually too, because you can get some not so great individual counseling, and then, you know, come to find out, you know, the latest one that I had, I thought was like, Okay, this is gonna be kind of lame, then it was just like, very impactful for me, to find out something in my history that I thought was kind of minimal, was actually a really big deal. In my mental capacity, I guess, would be the best way to put it. So you know, I would say for anybody, you know, don't dismiss it, if you're not going to dive into it, at least put both feet in pretty solidly, and all that and go.

I just feel like you both are just laying everything out on the table for us, you know, to really pure into your relationship. And I just, I appreciate you both for that. I mean, you're all set, you're saying all the right things, as you guys said, Well done, well done.

It really is, you know, it's look good. When we do we just, you know, sat here and we're like, Oh, hey, we're happy to be here today think, oh, yeah, you know, be smart with your money or you know, something like that. You know, be raw, be honest, the people are gonna learn from it. Because then, you know, like, financial, you hear people who get into real estate and sell a house after just only owning it for two years and make a bunch of profit and all that stuff. And, and I tell everybody, I'm like, you can do that. But here's the flip side of that coin. 15 years later, you know, the financial mistakes were talking about without diving into details and things. So, you know, there is another side of the story that people need to hear, honestly and learn from to, at least to just be aware of a potential situation that they weren't thinking about.

Yeah, absolutely. Well, I want to go ahead and, you know, wrap up here to talk about what the next five months or even three months are going to look like for you in post military. Before we get into that, I want to make sure I read one ad for our conversation today. And talk about actually a book written by my husband Scott called veteran wealth secrets. And so this book is a highly recommended book for veterans who are looking to create autonomy for themselves and post military life. This book is for those who want to go from a place of limitations. feelings of apathy around those limitations to a place of career progression, uncapped income potential and choice about how much time you work, how you work, where you work, and why you work. It is for those who want the choice to work for someone else to be a choice, not a compulsion in exchange for a paycheck. This book is for those who see and appreciate and want to participate in the modern times that we live in. You could actually download the first three chapters of this book today by visiting us but wealth.com, that's us vtwealth.com. Or you can check out the show notes of this episode to get the direct link to that page. So once again, the book is veteran world secrets written by the founder of us bet wealth, also my husband, Scott R. Tucker. Alright. So once again, I want to wrap up by sharing with our listeners, something to look forward to, and that's your post military life. And like you mentioned, you both have prepared extensively for this. So paint that picture for us now, what is post military life gonna look like for you both?

Well, in the next immediate couple months, we will be leaving the cold upper New York. Now, we have some friends in the area of Huntsville, Alabama, where we've decided to settle. But I'm kind of looking at the upside of the new adventure, because we Yeah, he's a family, we definitely take on new adventures, and we embrace them. And I think this next couple months, my girls will be going to new school. But this time, this is a school that they get to stay in, they'll start off as fourth and seventh grade. But they'll get to continue with those friends and have them all the way through graduation. So I'm excited for them. Because being a military brat myself, I've always moved different schools in high school. So for them, I'm excited that they'll get that longevity and that they can actually pick out paint color in their new rooms, you know, know that that's going to be their room for several years down the road. Yeah, I'm looking forward to the possibilities of that future job, whether I'm able to find something remote immediately, or maybe working once I get down to Huntsville, but that opportunity excites me, because you get to reinvent and find something new. See what's out there. And then I'm looking forward to kind of having him home more. Yeah, it'll be an adjustment period for us as well, because he's home. Yeah, the interesting and that dynamic of how he will fit into the routine of what I originally was used to just kind of happen in for segments at a time, I get to have him all the time. And he's not necessarily dictated to a training schedule or to something else he's really on. And then just looking forward to really making those solid plans if we want to go on vacation, see family want to go on vacation, for a break, we can we can do those things. So yeah, it'll be interesting. And just to kind of see what that life will look like in a new place that we'll all discover, because we've actually haven't been to Huntsville. He's been there a few times for some training. I've

been there one time for three days, and then transition through driving all that stuff. So

So learn a new place a new house, and just settling in and making some new connections and friendships. So,

yeah, and my understanding, you know, you both chose Huntsville, Alabama, specifically, because it's very retirement friendly. And so Chris, tell us a little bit about that. And, you know, kind of how you're looking forward to that support and post military life. Yeah.

So I finally relishing in the fact that, you know, when people ask me, like, what are you going to do afterward, and I go nothing, and they look on their face. And I get to smile at that. And I'm like, Oh, f wants me to take time off. And we're set up to be able to do that. And they're like, oh, okay, you know, so, so that I'm happy about that amazing. Forward to the adventure of a new place, rather than going back to Clarksville, like we had originally planned. Yeah, so the other flipside to you know, what do you want to do when you get out is my common answer as well is something that matters. I don't feel like I've done anything that really, truly matters and a long time. And that's, you know, for being in the Army for being an aviation and through the boy so many times, you know, I felt like, deployed and an aviation really a taxi driver for all those deployments and, but for my infantry deployments in Iraq, you know, they were challenging, difficult. It sucked, you know, for all those times too, but I felt like we were doing something that mattered, missions and operations we were doing on all three deployments, you know, so I just want to do something that matters again. And I'm just glad that I will be able to have the time to sit back and figure out what that is. So that's the biggest thing where yeah, I'll take some time off and all that stuff. It won't be very long. I know that but I'll be at least be able to sit back and go like, Okay, does working at Home Depot matter? Or does Yeah. Or does you know, delivering pizzas matter? You know, whatever. Obviously not. Well, I I mean, it can be fun, but still fun to find, or even to just volunteer some time and be like, Hey, this is really good. I like this. Even if I'm volunteering, this could be good because it matters. You know, whatever. Yeah. So. So that's, that's what I want to do on my part of the whole retiring process and moving forward, prepare something that just matters and to be around for my family. You know, if girls need to be picked up from school, or something that I'm around to be able to do. Maybe I can do it like, no, I got No, bro, you know.

So that's very inspiring, Chris, and I appreciate you sharing that wanting to have that sense of purpose and post military life. And I think that, you know, that's something that we hope for our veterans and even spouses to experience and post military life because you deserved it, you know? Yeah. Genuine, does this make you hopeful for? I don't know when but you're, you know,

for the hopeful for transition people go? Yes, the answer we're looking for is I can pick them up, I will be there. Next time, for sure. You will not have to track me on my iPhone to make sure I'm going to make it there. I will actually show up and pick them up. Everyone is looking forward to that in

love it? Well, I mean, Genevieve and Chris, I feel like we covered everything. Um, any closing thoughts before we go from either of you

know, just know that you've got support my talk and telling my friends that I am retiring. There are some that are like Jenny Lynn, were there looking at it kind of five years ago, and we're not ready yet. And then I've got someone the other end that have gone, come join us, it's been fine. It's a nice, kind of when you're in that transition, and you really start to feel overwhelmed. There's so many resources out there, there's a lot of help and dive on in. So

yeah, and I know, I know, for you, Genevieve, you have some resources you wanted to share with us. So I want to let our listeners know that for any thing that you do share, we'll provide it in the show notes.

Right. Yeah. So I think one of the great things about US military spouses, we were also been given the chance to have a lot of these resources, not only for the service member that's transitioning, but you know, US military spouses were transitioning as well. So I have been using the the Military OneSource coaches, so my Psycho, you can contact them get a coach, and they'll help you with everything from resume writing to just transitioning getting back into school if you wanted to. I've been using the USO transition program. It's the military life cohort immersion program that I'm currently in. They're great with resource partners. I've been able to work with Jen, I've been able to work with a couple of the others, just some of those things in interest that you have if you want to jump in and and get that but yeah, I have so many resources. I can just hand over to friends when they're gone. Okay, I'm ready to start working again. Same kind of Yeah, position I'm in and then I go, I've got great resources for that. I can share that with you. So

yeah, wonderful. Wow, this has been a very fulfilling conversation for me, I'm sure for Jenny LAN as well. So thank you, Genevieve and Chris, for joining us. If people do want to get a hold of you, how can they find you?

I have a LinkedIn is of course Genevieve Krueger. Lepin making connections that way or Chris? Oh, my Facebook page.

Yeah. And I apologize. Chris, I didn't ask for your closing thoughts. So any closing thoughts? And how can people find you if you want to be reached?

Yeah. Like Jenny said, there's a lot of resources available, but there's people, you know, people to just talk to you and ask, you know, same thing I got to I got two guys that I'm working with right now that are about both right at 18 months behind me. And you know, I was like, Oh hey, this and that and whatever, you know, information like oh, I didn't know I didn't know. And you know, just telling them like, hey, you need to go do these classes and these things now, you know, rather than later to get them done. And then you can revisit the ones that you want to do again and all that stuff and they didn't know how the VA disability math works and you know that they should start lining those things up now and all that stuff too. So you know, there's just even other service members out there buddies with information, you know, that you may not have and just, you know, I'm willing to share it with anybody and just be like, Hey, here's what you need to do. Love it. You know, some people just don't even bother asking or don't bother even saying anything. So and I've you know, for the last three years, you know, retirement focus stuff has been on my mind and discussion anyway. So if anyone's talking about something you know, I'm listening so you know just talk and ask is the biggest one so and then it Yeah, if anyone wants to get a hold of us I'll just you know answer questions. Wife's

Genevieve is the point of contact here, y'all.

I mean, that's very indicative of military life. Never, ever put the active duty service members the point of contact pro tip from a transitioning out family

Good awesome well thank you both this has been such a wonderful conversation and of course if you want any resources or a way to get ahold of Genevieve and Chris we'll have that in the show notes for you so with that being said thank you all so much for joining us we hope you got a lot out of today's conversation and we'll chat with you in the next episode till next time