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In this episode of The Science of Selling STEM, I’ll be sitting down with Kris Krustangel, Vice President of Business Development at Saluda Medical, a global neuromodulation company leading the development and commercialization of data-driven, personalized therapies for patients with chronic pain. The company’s first product, Evoke®, is a closed-loop spinal cord stimulator (SCS) system designed to treat chronic pain, a condition that affects more than 540 million people globally. He focuses on innovating strategies for success while increasing the capacity of his team’s performance along the way. 

Passion, authenticity, and results have been consistent themes in his career. Having started in pharma, he then took on a 20-year career in medical devices. He served in many roles from a clinical specialist to a frontline manager and everything in between. Kris joins us to share his journey and impart great lessons and insights from his sales experience for those who are in pharma and want to make that pivot to medical devices. He also tells us about his passion for helping and serving other people, showing us how true leaders work and how they inspire. Don’t miss out on this valuable 26-minute episode.

On Today’s Episode of the Science of Selling STEM:

• Starting out in pharmaceutical sales then pivots into medical device sales and ends up as the Vice-President of Business Development of a global neuromodulation company (01:46)
• The overall experience he had working in the operating room (03:05)
• Selling a solution while becoming the solution to the target customer’s need (05:06)
• Transitioning into leadership and his passion for helping and challenging others (06:12)
• Leaving an established company to join a startup (06:59)
• Being successful consistently by learning to prioritize and focus (08:09)
• How he helps his team manage their time so they can always stay on track (10:40) 
• Why it’s important for leaders to act early when it comes to performance conversations (13:49)
• Empathy + technical skills to work successfully in the neuromodulation space (15:57)
• Achieving clarity and focus when working for a startup (19:00)
• Having the wisdom and confidence to know what you know and the humility of what you don’t know (23:54)

Connect with Kris Krustangel:

• Kris on LinkedIn

Connect with Wesleyne Greer:

• Wesleyne’s Website
• Wesleyne on LinkedIn
• Wesleyne on Facebook
• Wesleyne on Twitter

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Join The Science of Selling STEM community on Facebook, Twitter, LinkedIn and visit my website for even more content, information, and resources.

As a sales manager, you are judged by the

performance of your team, and you're praised when they do

well. But one thing that you've not been able to figure out is

how to get everyone on your team consistently hitting quota every

single month. On the Snack size sales podcast, we discuss the

science of selling stem sales leadership in the science,

technology, engineering and manufacturing fields is

difficult. You will learn from sales managers just like you

that will give you actionable insights and tips on how to

develop as a leader and achieve your revenue targets every

single month. So pop your headphones in and get ready to

listen to my guests today. They will give you information and

inspiration to ensure that you have actionable insights that

you can put into place today. Hello, and welcome to another

episode of the science of selling today. I have Chris,

Chris angel with me. How are you, Chris?

I'm great. Thank you for having me on

today.

I'm so excited to chat with you. Let me tell

you guys a bit about Chris. He's a proven medical device

executive with over 20 years of experience. He focuses on

innovating strategies for success while increasing the

capacity of his team's performance along the way. He

has passion, authenticity and results that have been a

consistent theme in his career. Wow, those are some strong words

passion, authenticity, and results. We don't typically see

those three words together for sales. People tell me about how

did you get started in your career?

Yeah, well, first, I gotta tell you, my wife

wrote that. So I had to get started my career I have always

been focused it trying to bring people or organizations or

groups value. And as a byproduct, you know, trying to

be around really smart people, really talented organizations as

I've had that opportunity. So out of college, got into

pharmaceutical sales, really enjoyed that opportunity enjoyed

being in healthcare, but was looking for something maybe just

a little bit more challenging for me. So about 17 years ago, I

started medical devices in a segment called neuromodulation,

which for our particular area works with patients who have

chronic pain, we're basically trying to help them with small

electrical impulses, endure their pain and survive with

their pain, kind of like a pacemaker. And I've been with in

that space for the last 17 years started as a clinical specialist

to this the person that assists the physicians and surgeries,

and helps the patients with the therapy all the way up into my

current role, which is the Vice President of Business

Development for a startup in the space of neuromodulation. Right

now.

So you know, one thing that I have learned

recently, really through my podcast is the fact that medical

device sales people typically are like in the O R, like

they're right there with the surgeon. So tell me about like

some of your early experiences with that. But I'm

not sure I'm the best person to ask that.

That's because they wanted me to get into leadership before I

spent too much time in the operating room. But now do be

honest with you, it is a very unique and really exciting

component of what we do. Because all across medical device, there

are usually situations where you're walking into the

operating room, you're not scrubbed in, you're not you're

not a surgeon, but you're assisting the room conducting

this kind of outcome for a patient, right, so they're

having a surgery, or they're having an implant or there's all

these people in the room that are there to help and the

medical device rep is one of those individuals for my

particular device in neuromodulation, better known as

spinal cord stimulation, there's actually a part where the device

gets put into the patient, and the entire surgery stops. And

they look at you and they say okay, Chris, you're on. And your

job is to calibrate the device in real time to the patient with

their feedback. And once the patient's okay with that, and

the physician is okay with that, then they basically progress the

surgery and send the patient on their way. So what I do you're

really, really involved in to make it even a little more

unique is when the patient gets implanted with their device, we

continue to interact with them just like a pacemaker. So they

have our cell phones, we're talking to them. They're talking

to people that work for the organizations that provide the

product to make sure that they're having success with the

length of their therapy. Now, that's the minority of the

situation. But the majority is that you're in that operating

room with a physician trying to help provide the best outcome

possible. So it's very rubber hits the road kind of scenario.

When you have a successful sale, you're there as the sales

happening and the bigger and the better. Part of that is watching

the patient have success and improve their their life

circumstances.

So you know, in my world of chemical sales and

capital equipment, one thing that I've always told the

salespeople to do is you got to get your hands dirty, you got to

get your feet you got to be in it right. So I always tell them

get out there with the customers go in the field, if it's a

pipeline company go out there in the pipeline, because once they

actually see the product in action, it helps them become a

better salesperson. So as you were going through your career

and that was a project During that you had to follow us like

I'm in the alar. How do you think that helped you become a

better salesperson?

I mean, that's a great question. Because you

literally have to live it. I mean, you, you sell a solution

and you become the solution. And so there's an intimacy there and

a learning, that's a part of it, that makes it really kind of

special. But I guess you could just kind of set up the wall,

like you're done with the sale, you're just going to show up and

do like the minimal amount expected and like hope it goes

well. But I think to your question, it's like to get

dirty, you have this opportunity, you know, the

physician is going to use your product, you know, this patient

is going to have this surgery, they're gonna have outcome. But

there's still ways that you can help the facility, there's still

ways that you can help the physician identify more patients

or have have had the patient have a better clinical

experience. And those fall outside of your product. They're

very close, like a Venn diagram, kind of just like outside of

what you do. And you only figure those things out by getting

dirty by being in the places that the surgeries are

happening, being in the office with the physician getting to

talk to the patient, getting to talk to the institutions that

are making some of the buying decisions to and so I couldn't

agree more. I mean, getting into it, and just seeing it and

feeling the pain of the circumstance that they're trying

to solve. And hopefully, you're the solution your product is and

so you only get that if you're there at the

point. So tell me about when you transitioned

into leadership. How was that for you?

It was great. I mean, it's, you know, I joked

about being in the operating room, I think I was good. I

don't know if I was great. But I definitely aspire to help

others. I think it's fun for me now to know that I started in

that role. And then my team is comprised of all people that

usually start in that role. But I really have a passion for

helping other people for developing other people,

bringing other people up, getting them out of their

comfort zone, and really challenging them to be their

best versions of themselves and watching them have success, not

just in my organization, but for the whole career. And so it

brings out I would say the best in me. And so I've enjoyed being

part of a, you know, in the leadership journey over the last

decade. And so

the company that you previously worked for versus

the company right now. So you're in startup world now. So when

you transition from a bigger company into a startup world,

what was the biggest like, Aha, for you?

Oh, goodness, I'm sure for people that are

either in big companies or startup companies, there's a,

there's a lot of different answers to this. You know, I

think, for me, the one that probably sticks out the most is

just the vulnerability and transparency of your role. What

I mean by that is, you're just exposed, like, there's no layers

of the organization, there's no, you know, 15 stakeholders on the

decision, it's just you, and a lot of times making the

decision, right or die. And it's equal parts energizing, and

really scary if you're being honest. And I think trying to

get comfort with that as quickly as possible is what empowers you

to make good decisions and have success. You know, in a bigger

organization, there's usually a lot more people that are

involved in these decisions. And the time and just the confluence

of events takes longer, which is good in its own way too. But

when you go to a start up, and there's, you know, 25 of you

instead of 2500 of you, you're just doing a lot of things

really quick. And like I said, it's equal parts energizing and

scary depending on where it's at. But it's for me, personally,

it's been a lot of fun. It's been a lot of

fun. So walk us through you coming to this

company, startup company, what were your first 90 days, six

months, like so I help the person who's like, Okay, I'm

considering going to a start up. Yeah, in a sales leadership

position. What kind of things did you do?

That's a great question. Um, it's been only

eight months, but it feels like eight years is the first joke I

guess I'll make because there's just, there's so much content. I

feel like Elise from an I left my role at a big organization, I

was in like the fourth year of my role. So in a lot of ways,

I'm not saying I was a master, but I definitely knew what I was

doing. And things happen, easy, more easy for me than maybe

someone who started the role. So I exited at the end of that. And

I started a brand new role with a brand new organization as a

startup. So it's like the workflow in the education just

change, it flips on itself. So I think my advice and

consideration on this stuff is you got to prioritize, you got

to focus. I think that's the hardest thing that I've seen

with a startup is that there's so many good ideas, and you just

need a push, you need to push and find the great ideas, you

need to make sure you continue to focus and prioritize. I

think, you know, Warren Buffett, Bill Gates, we all knew that is

There's a great documentary on either Showtime or HBO, just

about their friendship. And there's a brief subset in that

that story that talks about what their most successful thing in

their careers had been. And they both said, focus above all else.

And I've always kept that as kind of a guideline, I think it

applies more in this role than ever before is like, what are my

priorities? How do I make decisions around those

priorities? How do I help my team protect their time and make

decisions around those priorities? Because there's so

much it's like, scope, creep, scope, creep, scope creep, when

you're small, and you're trying to move fast? So that's my

advice to being effective? I'm not sure that was your question,

but I threw it out there. Anyway, I think my advice on why

you should consider is a lot of fun. And you know, we all work

really hard. And I think, for me, personally post pandemic

wise, you take an evaluation of how you invest your time, I

think we all did, right? Because we had a lot of time, all of a

sudden, and then you know, he's gone back to work world. And so

my point being is if you're gonna invest time in anything,

whether it's 100 hours or 10 hours, I think you really want

to be intentional more than ever about your time. And the one

thing about a startup is like, you know, your time has gone

into stuff that that is happening. It's really It may

not be successful. But you know, at the end of the day, if you

put in 12 hours or 16 hours or eight hours, or whatever it is,

you can like to the second say you knew what you're doing and

how you're doing it, why it mattered. And that's, that's a

ton of fun. It's a ton of fun.

That's awesome, that you said a couple of things

that I want to drill down in a bit more time management, this

is something that a lot of salespeople don't really do well

with. So what are how do you help your team manage their time

knowing that, you know, hey, we're on a small team. So it's

not like we have a BDR and AE and sales operations and all of

these people to help us? What are some things that you tell

them to help keep them on track.

So I would say from a time management

standpoint, I prefer more of a top down approach versus a

bottoms up approach, I'll explain that. But like, a bottom

up approach to me is like, Okay, we're going to create a

calendaring function, or we're going to block time or we're

going to do other things, which are all really, really

important. But what I've learned working with hundreds of people

is every so different, and their lives are different, and their

families and our kids and our friend, there's all different.

So it's like, it's not a one size fits all thing. Going back

to my earlier answer, you know, the thing that is the same as we

all have the same priorities, or we should have the same

priorities. And so the top down approach for me is to make sure

that usually on a bi weekly basis, we're stating where the

priority is. And then we're kind of going back and qualifying how

we perform to that priority as a byproduct of that discussion.

That's where you get into say, Well, how did you manage your

time, right? Because that's what happens. Like, if you're

effective, and you knew you did the right things, you need to do

more of them. If you're ineffective, then probably

something else got in your way, what was that thing and should

have gotten your way? And that's where I think the granularity

then making choices about how you use your calendar, how you

scheduled time, or email, tech, Slack, whatever it is, that

really uncovers itself. And for me, I guess my advice is,

priority should be number one, when you think about time

management, because the second thing is every is really

different. And just because you read something or hear something

doesn't mean it's going to work for you and your lifestyle, or

your sleep schedule your ex or whatever it is right. So but if

we agree that these are the priorities of work, then you

should be able to acclimate yourself accordingly and make

time management a part of what you do. And you have to do for

that matter.

So how do you deal with those salespeople that

still don't get the ones that you're like, This is what you

have to do. And you kind of let them be autonomous, and they're

still underperforming? Well,

this is a whole different conversation. But

accountability is really, really high. For me, I mean, I kind of

have a mantra of challenge directly care compassionately,

which means that I want to be very direct and accountable with

the teams that I work with about their performance. But I do it

from a place of sincerity, like in an positive intent, like I'm

trying to genuinely help someone, if you want to be a

sales rep and you want to be successful, and you got to go

from here to there, and you're not getting there, and you're

willing to take my coaching and feedback, you should probably

get closer, I'm not saying I have all the answers, but you

should get closer if you're not exercising and utilizing the

feedback that is provided. And that's a huge problem. And when

it becomes a huge problem, then then we have a performance

conversation, it's just, it's not going to end up being the

fit that we look for. And that's good, too. Because what I've

learned and I've had a lot of those over time is they end up

finding a better skill set that mirrors what they are and what

they want to be and have a ton of success with it. Right? So I

guess there's there's two parts of that I'm very direct with it.

But I'm also very okay with it at this point, knowing that

there's other opportunities on the other side, because you got

to commit to getting better. And if you're not getting there,

then that's you. That's just you not doing the work.

Yeah, you know, the thing is, it's that is so

powerful, because a lot of times what we do is we kind of drag

those people along, we're like, okay, next month, next quarter.

And as you said, it's the accountability. It's the I'm

coaching you, I'm talking to you each week, these are the

priorities that I said. And if it's a you issue, it's a

performance issue. And at the end of the day, you're not

helping the team, you're not helping yourself. So let's find

a better position for you. Right. And I think as a leader

that we have to be realistic with ourselves and don't beat

yourself up. Because not everybody you hire not everybody

who's working with you is going to be 100% 100%

May I give a quick public service

announcement. Go ahead. To all the leaders out there. I have

never met a single leader that regretted acting too early when

it comes to performance conversations ever, ever. I've

avoided absolutes in my life as much as possible. But it always

is I should have acted earlier, I should have this conversation.

I shouldn't let it fester. I should have seen this. It never

is like Oh, I I address their underperformance too quickly. I

just don't hear that. And so in you know what the good news is

probably because we're kind people and conflict is hard. And

these conversations are hard. I'm not. I'm not saying just

like flip a switch and go but just have that fire in your

belly and the clarity in your head and know, as a leader if

you see something that if you dress it with, you know,

directly and you care about a person, it's a good thing to do.

It makes us better. It makes the person better and that's okay.

That's what we're all striving for. So sorry, I just had to get

that that public service announcement out there.

That is okay, I have a thing. It's hire slow

fire fast and people are like, oh, yeah, and the thing is, it's

like okay, a salesperson is leaving a salesperson is gone.

Oh, they said I can add a new position if you want to go fast,

because we're salespeople innately right and so we want

everything fast, but You have to do your due diligence upfront,

right? This is not just like a new deal that you're closing,

you have to do your due diligence. And you have to take

that person through all of the wringer. Right. Like I have a

whole process on how I bring them in, I make them do a

presentation, like, do you not talk in front of people, right?

Can you do recent like all of these things? And literally,

when we have that 90 Day onboarding, it's like, okay, did

they check this box? Did they check that box? So you know,

otherwise, you have this person who you're dragging along for 12

months, and they haven't hit their quota. And they're

bringing you down, and there is this whole thing? And so I love

what you said, it's like, don't feel bad about it. Just move

quick.

Do it, do it for sure. Good points.

So in your current position, you are in the

process of growing and building. Are you more into Have you

gotten I call them industry insiders are more people like,

hey, I can train you up? And what you need to know. And you

can be great on your sales team? Yeah, that's

a great question. So to make sure I

understand just you're talking more about who's going to join

the team? Is that what you're saying? Yeah. So we have

somewhat of a, I don't wanna say myopic view. But we tend to be

kind of isolated in what we do in this particular segment of

medical device. Because there's medical sales, there's medical

device, there's implantable device, which is kind of where

we are. And it's unique, because we not only have to sell and be

super technical, because we're talking about neuromodulation

neurophysiology, but we also have to be super empathetic and

be able to work directly with a patient. So the skill set that

we tend to see in my team is is a little unusual, in a good way

case, anybody's listening, I'm not saying it's bad, it's just

you're very technical, but you're a salesperson, and then

you're kind of like a nurse, you know what I mean? It's like all

these things together. That being said, it ends up being

that we find a lot of people that are in the space that no of

it, or have had experience, maybe they have a clinical

background, and maybe they're a nurse, or something like that,

that we tend to kind of grab and bring in that all being said,

I've been in situations where organizations have relied on

like, 100%, we're only gonna go hire other people in the

industry. And I've been in other situations where like, No, we're

gonna get everybody fresh, like completely diverse opinion. And

what I've kind of landed on is like the 75% rule, which is 75%,

of who we bring in will have intimate knowledge of what we

do, but that we want to maintain this quotient of diversity of

thought and perspective and experience and energy and

background. Because that's where innovation comes from. That's

where growth comes from. And so we may meant for new like

leaders, three of them probably got promoted from being a sales

rep before but one, I'm probably gonna look to go outside and

find someone who doesn't have that exact experience, because I

think that creates a different and very optimal team dynamic

based on what I believe is makes a lot of sense for our business.

Yeah. And you know, I think that it there has

to be a balance. Like you said, some people are only about, I

call them industry insiders. And some people are only like, no,

no, no, no, I just want to train somebody, I don't want them to

be, you know, damaged goods, if you will, right. But there has

to be a mix. Like there's a sales team that I'm helping to

put together. And that's what we did, it was actually more 5050.

It was like, really strong salespeople industry

experienced. And so they talk right, and so they can share

like, Okay, this is how I sell this is the what the product is

let's go on joint sales calls together, right. And when you

build that organization, that way, it just benefits everybody,

it benefits you as a leader, because they're speaking cross

functionally, and they're talking to each other. And

they're helping each other grow. And so it actually helps make

your job easier.

I totally agree. I couldn't agree more,

especially because there's only one of you generally, will

always and I always talk about being a rate limiting factor as

a leader like you don't want to be an obstacle you don't want to

be the reason that an organization performs slowly,

because it has to go through your you have to train someone

or you're the final decision maker, you want to go the

opposite direction, you want to create the team as effective as

possible away from you. And you do that by empowering them to

kind of create this. I almost call it like a flywheel. I think

Jim Collins calls it a flywheel where it's just like people are

growing and making themselves better all by themselves. Just

by the way you set up the dynamics and environment. So

I'm, I'm a huge believer in that.

So earlier, you mentioned focus as a word,

right? How do you focus in a startup?

Oh, my goodness, coffee? I don't know.

That's a really hard question. Because like this, could we go

in a completely different direction about like, your brain

and meditation and just a bunch of other things that you just

got to do to keep your clarity. I think, for me, I tried to do

the two check ins in a week with the team but to check ins for

the day, which means like, I set my intent in the morning, which

is also like priority, which is like a meditation, journaling

thing, whatever. It's all kind of the same. Like, these are the

things that I need to get done today based on no distraction,

right? Like, it's the morning, it's a blank slate. And then you

get to the end of the day, and you say, Well, how did I do?

Right? And I think that process, which is not mine, I'm sure I

read it somewhere to like helps me stay on track with what I'm

trying to accomplish. Right. The years are long, but the days are

short. I think that's how it goes. And so you got to kind of

just make sure you're staying as close as you can to the intent.

I think if you start your day or your week without the intent or

the focus, then it's quickly it's easy just to be busy,

right? But, you know, you got to continue to measure that work

against where you We're trying to go. And so I'm not sure I'm

answering your question, because it's more of a tactical answer,

which is just like, every day, I'm trying to say, this is what

I want to focus on. And I'm trying to qualify it. But it's

really hard. I mean, it's really hard. I mean, I have anxiety

about those red bubbles on my iPhone about things that I've

left, unread and untouched. And this job has created more of

those red bubbles and I could ever imagine, so I'm just trying

to balance it all.

So I asked you that because my, my word for the

year. So each year, I kind of set my intention on a specific

word, and it's focused, right? And so I find myself like, and I

verbalize this. So everybody on my team knows like, this is the

word and this is actually the word for the team is using. So

they're always like Wesleyan. Are we focused? Is this helping

us get to where we're trying to go? And I think like you said,

it's like, you set your intention, whether it's a day,

the year, the month, the week, the quarter, set your intention,

and check in with yourself to make sure that you're moving at

the right cadence, because I think especially in the startup

world, it happens in large corporations, too, you just find

yourself doing so much. And it's like, we can do a lot. We can

touch a lot. But I'm just one person, I just have one team,

and we just don't have the bandwidth to do it. Yeah, I

would

say just an adjacent to that, too. Or you're

kind of saying it, you know, you asked like, how do I stay

focused, but I think it's important to whether you're a

leader at a startup, pretty much everybody's a leader, right?

Because there's only so many of you is to have a collegial

approach to ask people why we're choosing to do things, because

sometimes they need help to be calibrated on their focus or the

organizational focus. So you know, I have multiple

stakeholders, clinical operations, and marketing and

all these other people that I work with across our

organization. And they'll come up and say, well, we need your

team to do XY and Z. In a first pass. I'm like, Well, does that

really fit into our priority and our focus? And so I'll just say

why, like, why are we doing this? Where did this come from?

Help me understand that. And sometimes it's just an education

for me to be like, oh, yeah, totally fits into our focus, I

get it. Lack of education. I mean, but occasionally, it's

like, you're right, I didn't really think about that someone

asked me to go chase the tennis ball, I wouldn't chase the

tennis ball, and you're standing there. So give me the tennis

ball. And it's like, okay, let's have this conversation. So we

get aligned. And I think, again, public service announcement

number two, as a leader be empowered to ask why just ask

why get people's understanding of why they're coming to you and

what they're asking for. So you can maximize the outcome,

because that's what it's really about completing the task. It's

about maximizing the outcome and be productive. So yeah, that's

my thought on helping others focus too.

And, you know, I think that the one thing that

managers leaders don't do well is I always call it managing up.

So it's like, hey, the boss tells you to do this or ask you

where you are on this, you just do it, or you just drown, or you

don't tell them what you're doing. Right? You're just like,

I'm focused right here. I'm just laser focused on this. But I'm

like, it's a conversation. Like you don't always like you said,

just ask why can you help me understand why you need me to do

this? In three hours? Like, I know what's important, but

doesn't have to be done in three hours? That's okay. That's

actually why they hired you. And they believed in you, because of

that tenacity that you have some

Yeah, well said completely was completely

applicable. It's so real world, like, every day, my boss will

ask me for something. And I will usually ask him, what's my

timeline? And, you know, where should I prioritize this. And

that's not to be like, more difficult, but it's just to

understand, because there's a he hired me to do a lot of

different things. So I gotta be able to really understand where

this fits, and then make the time for it. So I guess I would

say, I hope that, you know, whoever's listening is in a

space where they feel comfortable to do that. And you

know, and if they don't, you know, just try to set that

expectation and even tell your, their boss or manager, hey, next

time this comes up, do you mind if I ask you, because sometimes

that's easier, you kind of set the expectation, you're gonna

ask that it feels a little bit more easy to get across it just

like shooting a shot all of a sudden, so but that is also

critical to the health I think of an organization as they grow,

for sure.

Absolutely. So you've had a dynamic career.

Tell me what is one thing that you are most proud of a lot of

times people like, oh, I can't pick one thing. But what is one

thing that you're most proud of and accomplishing in your

career?

I mean, it's hard for me truthfully, because

like I don't, I don't feel like I'm done yet. So I don't really

know what I'm capable of yet. I think that this is gonna sound

like really honest, but it is very honest, is that I think the

thing that I'm proud of most right now is being in a really

difficult situation, having the wisdom and confidence to know

what I know, but also humility of what I don't know. And I know

that's not like a like, that's not a SMART goal, right? It's

that specific, measurable, it's, let's call those things like I

get that. But I realized now more than ever being in this

position is a really critical factors to have, because there's

just so much coming at me any given day, and there's so many

different egos and stakeholders and resources. And I'm just

trying to maintain that objectivity of like, okay, I'm

really good at these things. But I know I'm not good at those

things. And I'm also okay with people knowing that and being

like, completely exposed to it, so they can help me get there.

Because I think ultimately, what I'm doing now will be probably

the biggest accomplishment I have, I mean, hopefully bring

this company to you know, an IPO situation where you ring a bell

like those are things you dream off, I mean, literally dream of,

and we're on that runway right now. And so if I do the job I

need to do, I think that will ultimately be one of the biggest

things I've done in my career. But I think that starts now with

how I behave and I bring myself to work and you know how I try

to do the best work? I can.

I love it. You're one an introspective

leader, right. And I think that we all need to sometimes be

humble. And just like you said that my work isn't done. I'm

just I feel like I'm just getting started. Yeah, I've been

doing this for two decades. I'm just getting started though. I

love it. I love it. I love it. So Chris, if people want to

connect with you, what is the one best way? Yeah,

I mean, I always go to LinkedIn. That's

kind of my social media platform of choice. You know, I try to

keep it balanced between work and just introspection and

positivity and different things I'm reading and looking at. I

think we all need each other from time to time to pick them

up. So LinkedIn is probably the best place. Love to hear your

feedback, shoot me a message, I try to the best to respond to

everything sincerely, and hope to connect with you in real

life. So

awesome. Well, thank you so much for being a

guest. This was a wonderful conversation. We really got to

dig deep below the surface.

Yeah, thank you so much for making the time I

really enjoyed the conversation as well.

Awesome. And that was another episode of the

science of selling. Remember, leave us a review. Let me know

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