Shownotes
Return and Liberation is an in-depth discussion with members of the Palestinian Youth Movement, a transnational organization dedicated to a Free Palestine. Laura Khoury and Moe Alqasem spend time sharing what pushes them to keep going in such a combative area of advocacy. The discussion examines the current situation in Palestine, including the status of the resistance and updates on political prisoners held by Israeli forces. We also look at the state of Canadian politics and explore why leadership on the Left so often feels out of touch with its base on the issue of Palestine.
To stay in touch with the Palestinian Youth Movement:
Transcripts
Greetings, rabble rousers. My name is Jess McLean. Welcome to Blueprints for Disruption, a weekly
Speaker:discussion dedicated to amplifying activism across Turtle Island. Together, we will examine
Speaker:tactics, explore motivations, and celebrate successes in disrupting the status quo. In
Speaker:this episode of Blueprints of Disruption, we're lucky to sit down with two members of the Palestinian
Speaker:youth movement. Laura and Mo join us to discuss just what the fight for return and liberation
Speaker:look like. particularly for the members of the Palestinian diaspora here in Canada. We explore
Speaker:just what fuels their fire, because although we know most people support their cause and
Speaker:recognize the oppressive situation in Palestine under Israeli apartheid, it's still a contentious
Speaker:battle they have on their hands. The resistance to a free Palestine can be fierce and a political
Speaker:hot potato in Canadian politics. I ask them how they navigate all that. We'll also get
Speaker:into the importance of solidarity networks to the Palestinian movement and recognizing the
Speaker:parallels that exist in various fights across the global South. Here is Return and Liberation
Speaker:with the Palestinian Youth Movement. Welcome, friends. The first thing, as always, I'm going
Speaker:to ask you to please introduce yourself to our audience. Laura, I'm going to start with you.
Speaker:Yes, definitely. Thank you so much, Jess, for having us on the podcast. My name is Laura.
Speaker:I'm a... part of the Palestinian youth movement here in Montreal. I was also part of the student
Speaker:movement back when I was in McGill, working with Solidarity for Palestinian Human Rights.
Speaker:And now I've been in the QIM or the Palestinian Youth Movement for a couple of years. Thank
Speaker:you. Mo, it's nice to see you again. Introduce yourself, please, so everyone knows you. Thank
Speaker:you, Jessa, and thank you for having us on the podcast. My name is Mo Alqasim. I'm a member
Speaker:of the Palestinian Youth Movement based in Toronto. And I'm glad to be on this show. Thanks for
Speaker:coming. It's definitely been a topic we've wanted to cover here on Blueprints of Disruption.
Speaker:And I particularly asked Mo who he thinks I should talk to in terms of covering the Palestinian
Speaker:movement here in Canada specifically. And so. It's the Palestinian youth movement that Mo,
Speaker:I guess, you're most involved with now. I know you've done other work in terms of solidarity
Speaker:work for Palestine. We don't need to mention all of the groups, but what is it about the
Speaker:Palestinian youth movement in particular that has your focus now? I think what's unique about
Speaker:the Palestinian youth movement is the fact that we're grassroots. completely. We're independent
Speaker:as an organization and we are focused and centered within the Palestinian and Arab communities.
Speaker:And that tends to be our priority in terms of organizing and mobilizing. We see ourselves
Speaker:as a main player in terms of Palestinian national liberation and that we have a... vital role
Speaker:within our community and within our movement. Laura, do you feel the same? And why do you
Speaker:think you guys are so pivotal in that fight? Like what makes it unique? Yeah, I think first
Speaker:of all, the youth are the most important sector of our community. They are the newest generation.
Speaker:They're the people that are gonna hold a fight and the struggle moving forward. And so focusing
Speaker:on the youth. specifically organizing them, developing them at a young age, and reengaging
Speaker:their role in the larger struggle for national liberation is very important. We also I also
Speaker:think that the reason that the Palestinian movement is so important is that we don't really see
Speaker:ourselves in solidarity with Palestinians, as much as we see ourselves like young Palestinians
Speaker:and Arabs, part of the struggle. You know, a lot of us have families who are either there
Speaker:or in refugee camps. So we see this as a way more holistic struggle that we are part of.
Speaker:Thank you for correcting me there. That's my perspective as an ally, I think coming through
Speaker:and not even beginning to understand that lived experience that you folks have or that emotional
Speaker:tie. A lot of us work on campaigns. issue-based campaigns, but I don't think any of them have
Speaker:ever been as personal for me as they likely are for the diaspora of Palestinian folks,
Speaker:which is numbers around seven million Palestinians that do not live or cannot live in Palestine.
Speaker:So yeah, that I thank you again for kind of pointing that out because I think that's important.
Speaker:I think that is in part, I don't want to put words in your mouth, but just from my experience
Speaker:of working with Palestinian activists, the drive is something else. It's something very internal.
Speaker:It's necessitated by life and death, like you say, like your family members. I wonder, is
Speaker:that a big driver? Is that how you manage to do so much? Like looking at the Palestinian
Speaker:Youth Movement website and the annual report from 2021 lists the amount of activities and
Speaker:campaigns that you folks have worked on, cultural, political, local, global. And you do that all
Speaker:without paid staff. Obviously money doesn't drive everything, but that is a lot of work
Speaker:for volunteers who likely already have jobs and families and other struggles in life. How
Speaker:do you guys manage to do so much? I guess it's the commitment and discipline of our membership
Speaker:and our base. As you mentioned, we don't have any paid staff. None of our members get any
Speaker:sort of compensation for the work that we do. But there is a drive for us to continue organizing
Speaker:for Palestinian national liberation. And that's something that can be attributed to how dear
Speaker:and how close the cause is to us and how determined we are to see our liberation. You know, you
Speaker:don't get to the point in life where you're organizing 24-7 essentially for a national
Speaker:liberation cause unless you completely believe in it and you're completely determined on it.
Speaker:Just to add onto what Mo said, I think part of it is the importance of framing the Palestinian
Speaker:national liberation question and where it stands today. I think a lot of the youth that organized
Speaker:with us came into what we call a post-Oslo world, where essentially a lot of the The height of
Speaker:the Palestinian resistance was at its low because the peace process had just happened, quote
Speaker:unquote, peace process had just happened. And all these Palestinian institutions, which were
Speaker:part of the Palestinian Liberation Organization, were destroyed in a lot of ways. And the general
Speaker:union for Palestinian students, all the different unions for engineers, for doctors. for women
Speaker:that were all over the world were essentially destroyed. And so we came to a world where
Speaker:all of that was destroyed, but we were born into a history where all of that existed, was
Speaker:alive, and there was resistance all around, not just in Palestine, but in all of the refugee
Speaker:camps and in the surrounding Arab countries. And I think that's the drive. The drive is
Speaker:to bring that back and to seek the justice of a full national liberation. that is not just
Speaker:based on the human rights of the Palestinians that live there, but rather the question of
Speaker:the refugees, the question of the prisoners that are in prisons, Zionist prisons that are
Speaker:in consistent contact with the occupier, and their worst form of oppression in prisons.
Speaker:And so I think all of that really pushes the youth to kind of regain their role and rebuild
Speaker:what was lost in that process. Both of you have mentioned liberation in talking about your
Speaker:work. And a lot of the messaging in the Palestinian youth movement refers to a return. What does
Speaker:liberation look like to you, Laura? Yeah, that's a very good question. And I think because we're
Speaker:always very, we're so in the struggle, the daily struggle, it's hard to imagine, you know, what
Speaker:a free or liberated Palestine is. But the Palestinian youth movement always says until return and
Speaker:liberation. That's kind of our motto, if you will. And it's because... The question of the
Speaker:refugees is sometimes lost in the question of national liberation, and we see it's one of
Speaker:the most important points. If our refugees can't come back, then we have lost a big part of
Speaker:our liberation. And liberation doesn't happen without the return of the refugees. But also,
Speaker:we believe in the liberation of full historic Palestine from the river to the sea. We believe
Speaker:in the liberation of all of our prisoners, which I believe are around 4,500. plus right now
Speaker:in Zionist prisons, many of which are only under administrative detention, which means that
Speaker:they have not gone through any kind of trial. They are just in prison on some further notice.
Speaker:And so that's what we mean by liberation. We believe in a one democratic Palestinian state
Speaker:where everyone is equal and has their full rights.
Speaker:Is that what you're working towards? Is that the larger goal? That is what we're working
Speaker:towards, everything that Laura said. What are some short-term goals of the Palestinian youth
Speaker:movement? How are you getting there step by step? I know it seems like very urgent, like
Speaker:that's something that needs to be done now, but clearly you're doing a lot of work that
Speaker:isn't inherently political. Or is it? You know, a lot of the work you do is cultural, but is
Speaker:the cultural political when... You're trying to be erased? I mean, our main objective essentially
Speaker:doesn't change. Our main objective is to always mobilize our community across all different
Speaker:sectors in support of our national liberation. And you mentioned 7 million or 7 million plus
Speaker:Palestinian refugees who can't return. We have a large number of them in North America or
Speaker:across North America. And so. We see Palestinians and Arabs as main stakeholders, and as main
Speaker:stakeholders, we need to be at the forefront of our struggle in exile or in the diaspora.
Speaker:Some of the different things that we work on could include anti-militarization campaigns
Speaker:or anti-surveillance campaigns. In the era that we live in or that some of us were born into,
Speaker:Palestinian Arab communities are some of the most heavily surveilled communities. Activists
Speaker:and even regular community members are amongst the most targeted in terms of state surveillance
Speaker:or even at times incarceration or repercussions for political dissent. We also see a role in
Speaker:the West or in North America in particular as really halting or stopping the sale of weapons.
Speaker:or the sale of arms to the Israeli state or the Zionist state. North America in particular
Speaker:is very invested in the arming of Israel. And we see that as a main objective of ours to
Speaker:hold that and to ensure that collaboration between the Western states and the Zionist state has
Speaker:ceased. We also work on supporting the different sectors of our movement, so supporting communities
Speaker:who come from the global south as well, who have liberation struggles. we see it as part
Speaker:of our struggle to support them and to show up for them. The Filipino people have a very
Speaker:active struggle for democracy and for liberation in the Philippines, and we consistently work
Speaker:with them. We see our liberation and our faiths as tied to one another. The student movement
Speaker:and the youth sector is extremely vital for us. The Palestinian National Liberation Movement
Speaker:has had a very active student wing throughout and maintaining that is crucial for our national
Speaker:liberation. But I'll stop there because I could ramble on for ages about the work that we do.
Speaker:You hit on a few things that I definitely wanted to ask you about. One of them is the level
Speaker:of opposition. You spoke of state surveillance and extra scrutiny, possible incarceration.
Speaker:I think, again, I hate to draw on my experience, but the very little time that I have spent
Speaker:advocating for Palestinian rights was the most hostile in terms of counter protests or the
Speaker:reactions you got publicly, privately. It was just really dipping my toes into it. I cannot
Speaker:imagine what it is like being completely immersed. Yes, there are climate change deniers, but
Speaker:they don't show up in those numbers. And the defamation and the level of attacks that come
Speaker:at Palestinian activists is so intense. And when you have youth, I worry about them. I'm
Speaker:not like trying to discourage anybody. But how do you folks... deal with that kind of combativeness
Speaker:so often. Right, like I don't think I've done any actions at your, back in my days at York
Speaker:University and the why you divest movement, you talked about trying to remove weapons and
Speaker:that was one of the angles, right? One of the tactics used was to get universities to stop
Speaker:funding weapons manufacturers in general. It wasn't directly tied, right? But it was, it
Speaker:was. And even those faced severe claims of anti-Semitism because of the involvement of Palestinian youth.
Speaker:How do you guys protect the youth against this or prepare them for that? Your youth yourself,
Speaker:you know, how does that weigh on you constantly? That's a really good question. And honestly,
Speaker:the short answer is that there's no preparation. It's practice that... You know, a lot of us
Speaker:were part of the student movement and students organizing is on campuses that are predominantly
Speaker:Zionist and are held together through Zionist funding. And the backlash there is very, very
Speaker:strong. We saw a wave in the last, let's say, 10 years since the call for boycott, divestment
Speaker:and sanction of a lot of the student movement pushing for their universities to divest. and
Speaker:the PYM, part of its work is really supporting the student movement and supporting it against
Speaker:the backlash that it receives. And we see this backlash consistently happening, the resolutions
Speaker:would pass and then there would be huge repression that comes directly from the university, not
Speaker:even, you know, Zionist forces that are explicit, but rather the university, which is Zionist,
Speaker:but not so explicitly to many people. And so people start wanting to take away their funding
Speaker:in order to pressure the university to take action against these student groups or the
Speaker:student union, which took a stance based on the voting of many students. And so we see
Speaker:that repression in a lot of ways. And I think the reason we see that repression is that we
Speaker:organize in the Imperial core. And Israel is predominantly an imperialist project that is
Speaker:very much protected by the United States, Canada and Europe. By funding, by training their forces,
Speaker:by weapon manufacturing deals that happen consistently between Israel and the US and Canada too. And
Speaker:so we know that part of struggling in the Imperial core is knowing that the repression also exists
Speaker:here in different ways. But also another important thing about organizing here is that there are
Speaker:many other anti-imperialist struggles which will kind of hit on. And we see ourselves as
Speaker:part of these larger anti-imperialist struggles that called for the national liberation of
Speaker:many other countries. but also the liberation of other people, like the Black people here
Speaker:in North America, etc. So I think they kind of also help us to stay afloat and help us
Speaker:find the repression. I also wanted to comment on something really quickly because you said
Speaker:we work on culture, and I feel like that's a really important point that you brought up
Speaker:earlier. We work on culture actually every year. We run the Dasan Ken Afani Art Scholarship.
Speaker:program, which is named after Hassan Kenefani, who was a writer, but also very involved in
Speaker:politics and the resistance in general. And Hassan Kenefani, although being a writer and
Speaker:an artist, was assassinated by Israel. So we don't see that culture is disconnected. We
Speaker:see that this is an issue of consistent ethnic cleansing by the Zionist regime of all kinds
Speaker:of Palestinian life, including our culture. And so we see that this is also a fight for
Speaker:existence, for the existence of the Palestinian people, for their livelihoods. And so culture
Speaker:is a very important part of that. I just wanted to bring it back to that. Sorry for jumping
Speaker:in here. No, I think that's important too, because when we look at the indigenous struggle here
Speaker:on Turtle Island, the erasure of culture was a huge part in the attempt at genocide. And
Speaker:so... Flexing that culture and reinforcing it and making sure it goes from generation to
Speaker:generation Becomes an act of the political and yeah, you see that in The mix of work that
Speaker:goes on with the Palestinian youth movement I'll share links obviously But I do encourage
Speaker:folks to really check out the amount of work that they're doing and just like how eclectic
Speaker:it is It's quite interesting summer schools So you're interested in building new leaders,
Speaker:right? So I see that summer schools are part of this. This is so much work. It's very impressive.
Speaker:I would like to immerse myself more in it just to experience it, but that's incredible. Do
Speaker:either of you, have you attended the summer school or do either of you wanna hit on that?
Speaker:I thought that was particularly interesting. I would never sign up for summer school, but
Speaker:maybe if they had something like this, I would have. Can I just say, well, I only wanted to
Speaker:say that summer school is the only type of school that I wouldn't mess out on, I would wake up
Speaker:for. But I'll defer the answer to Laura. Yeah, so we do have a summer school. It happens once
Speaker:every two years. And this year actually over 100 Palestinian and Arab youth came together
Speaker:for the summer school, which is super exciting. It's been our largest ever summer school and
Speaker:we had to reject some people from coming due to limitations on space and other things. So
Speaker:that was super exciting. It's always different when you're organizing across cities and countries
Speaker:even to kind of meet up once a year, once every two years in our case, and really have this
Speaker:democratic process happen in real life. This is kind of where we do a lot of popular education,
Speaker:development of leadership, but also have our democratic process happen where we elect new
Speaker:leadership and also vote. on other things that we want to continue doing. So a convention
Speaker:of sorts as well, is that right? Like our annual general meeting, but like a real one, not like
Speaker:the ones we get in the partisan world, right? Like something that you learn from and share
Speaker:within. That sounds almost like a novelty from the spaces that I come from. Mo's nodding,
Speaker:he know exactly what I'm talking about. I'd like to talk a little bit, you got to... The
Speaker:listeners are involved in Canadian politics, a lot of them. Some of them very probably disillusioned
Speaker:with Canadian politics. What is the atmosphere currently? You know, I'm just going to folks,
Speaker:the NDP have recently adopted a better position. I'll leave it to you folks if you want to kind
Speaker:of develop on that. But has that been helpful to move? the discussion forward in terms of
Speaker:electoral politics and the legislature and any needs that you guys have there? Or, you know,
Speaker:is there movement there at all for you folks? I mean, we definitely took note and witnessed
Speaker:the NDP shift its position and it's certainly welcome. Obviously a lot of organizers and
Speaker:a lot of activists had to put in. countless hours of work and dedication in order to move
Speaker:the party to that position. I think Jagmeet's position, for one, reflected a segment of progressive
Speaker:thought across the country. Although the critical side of me would say that it came a bit too
Speaker:late. But it certainly is welcome and we're glad that the party and the leadership of the
Speaker:party finally came to that decision and that position. The other aspect of it is that we
Speaker:can only speak to Canada, but the majority of the Canadian public is actually in support
Speaker:of Palestinian liberation or... thinks that the Palestinian people are oppressed and have
Speaker:their rights violated consistently. The parties have... been out of touch as far as that goes,
Speaker:right? They're very out of touch with the wider Canadian public when it comes to Palestine,
Speaker:as well as other issues. And there's definitely the aspect of, you know, powers and institutions
Speaker:that influence the Canadian political parties as they are. But we haven't seen that massive
Speaker:of a change in terms of public support, because that public support has existed for a long
Speaker:time. It's just that the parties weren't willing to acknowledge it, unfortunately. The party
Speaker:leadership, yeah, like you mentioned, the amount of effort. I've never seen so consistent rallying
Speaker:and organized the most organized resolution pushes. always came around the Palestinian
Speaker:resolution. And it took various forms based on various needs at the time, right? Whether
Speaker:it was the IHRA definition or other things that had come up, but so much effort, so much effort
Speaker:to simply get it heard, right? It wasn't a matter of testing it over and over again and convincing
Speaker:and doing the education needed. Because like you said, the support was there. But even within
Speaker:a progressive party, we saw massive efforts to simply stop that from ever getting to the
Speaker:floor. Because they knew the support would be there. Why? What is it that? Because I don't
Speaker:think they're out of touch mode. They've got pollsters. They pay them lots. So they know.
Speaker:They're in touch. They know what we're thinking, right? They. That's why they didn't ever want
Speaker:it to get to the floor. What is it that stops even, using square quotes always, people, leftist
Speaker:parties to be so hesitant and to come too late perhaps, but just why was that so hard? Do
Speaker:you have the answer? Maybe you don't, maybe you have theories, but no one can deny that.
Speaker:There's never been a climate change thing that's ever been that hard or indigenous rights or
Speaker:all these other issues that have come up. I've never seen so much resistance to simply being
Speaker:heard. So I think to go back to your earlier point, I think I was being a bit too kind by
Speaker:saying that they're out of touch.
Speaker:Look, there's many different factors that play into it, but one of the main factors, and speaking
Speaker:to the left, whatever we're considering as left, at least in this part of the globe,
Speaker:I'm going to use the example of the Labour Party in the UK. The the leadership of Jeremy Corbyn
Speaker:was practically under a threat of character assassination and the smearing of their political
Speaker:platform.
Speaker:The left has a fear of being smeared and being torred by baseless and more often than not
Speaker:really. falsified and even at times over glorified charges of anti-Semitism.
Speaker:The left hasn't been able to combat it properly, although there are segments of the left and
Speaker:sectors within the left and the progressive stream that have pushed hard against those
Speaker:three, against those TARS and SMIRs that are leveled against those of us who support Palestinian
Speaker:national liberation. That's one factor to it. I mean, the other factors are definitely the
Speaker:overpowered, let's say, political streams that exist across our continent. You know, we're
Speaker:living in a province that is currently witnessing one of the most vicious... governments since
Speaker:the Harris era. And that's the Doug Ford conservatives, right? So we're living in an atmosphere where
Speaker:the left is weakened as it is and are very threatened and haven't quite developed the strategy and
Speaker:the tactics to rebuttal any of the Zionist strategies as they are. You just like a light bulb kind
Speaker:of went off when you said that. And I think we kind of realized that, but that's at the
Speaker:root of a few of our problems, I believe. That fear of being smeared. You know, I read an
Speaker:article today and it was about, you know, anti-communists within the left. And it primarily being driven
Speaker:by not wanting to be painted as reds. We're reds, right? Like, um, very interesting. Thank
Speaker:you for bringing that up because, yeah, I think like, yeah, that is a huge impact. I always
Speaker:draw it down to courage. Perhaps it's a communications issue. I would like to say it's like, it's
Speaker:courage though. I don't want it finessed. Yes, there must be methodical ways to counter the
Speaker:Zionist narrative. And I'm sure like you guys have really worked on that. And there's a lot
Speaker:we can learn from you folks there. But I think there's a part of me that just wants people
Speaker:to say it is how it is and find people to come around. And I think... I don't think they know
Speaker:what people are ready for and what people will think of certain smears. I'd rather be smeared
Speaker:as an anti-Zionist or a communist than a centrist or someone defending what we see, the status
Speaker:quo. So sorry for my interjection there. I just felt like it was part of that larger discussion
Speaker:that we have here on the show on like what is the problem with the left sometimes, you know?
Speaker:And yeah. Laura, how do you feel about the Palestinian movements within the Canadian space? Is it
Speaker:being well received or are we seeing growth there? Yeah, I think I can speak for Montreal
Speaker:specifically and Canada generally. I think, yes, they are very well received. I think there
Speaker:is a large Palestinian and Arab community that... is the base for this movement and that continue
Speaker:to push this movement forward through all the different events and actions that we do, whether
Speaker:it's protests, cultural events, these things are consistently happening. And I think that,
Speaker:you know, the movement comes in a lot of different ways and so people come into touch with the
Speaker:movement, you know, either on their campus or and their union, you know, like around 70%
Speaker:or more of Quebec unions have at some point passed a Palestine, I heard the statistic the
Speaker:other day and I was really shocked that more than 70% of Quebec unions have passed a Palestine
Speaker:solidarity resolution of some sort, right? That's incredible. And that's mind blowing. Yeah,
Speaker:it is, it is. And so, The movement does have a base and the base is wide and it varies.
Speaker:And there's a lot of solidarity groups also that, you know, work for work on the Palestinian
Speaker:movement in general, or different parts of the movement. Right. You know, just here in Montreal,
Speaker:we have like around four student groups at universities, other than the Palestinian youth movement,
Speaker:other than the institutions that also hold. that are either Arab or Palestinian and then
Speaker:some other solidarity groups like BDS Quebec, etc. And so all of these played all these different
Speaker:roles in order to build the broader movement and allow us to kind of propel the narrative
Speaker:and change the even the political narrative, right? Because there are two narratives, you
Speaker:know, there's a narrative around apartheid which kind of limits the question of what are Palestinians
Speaker:really looking for. And there's the narrative of a full national liberation question. And
Speaker:those two are in a lot of ways different. And we've seen, especially after the summer of
Speaker:2021, which is called the Battle of St. Helqut, where thousands of people were in the streets
Speaker:in Montreal and Toronto. You know, this was actually, I've been in Montreal for 10 years,
Speaker:and this was the biggest. mobilization for Palestine that I've seen. And so I think the movement
Speaker:is growing. And I think the movement here also takes a lot of its pulse from the movement
Speaker:back home. So when the movement back home is at its height, we see a lot of mobilization
Speaker:here because we are following what's happening back home. And right now is the global week
Speaker:of action for the Palestinian youth movement. Is that mostly centered on political prisoners
Speaker:in Zionist prisons? So I'll speak a little bit about the specific action and other actions
Speaker:that we're having this week. So there were 50 Palestinian political prisoners that were on
Speaker:hunger strike. They ended their hunger strike recently and hunger strikes have long been
Speaker:a tactic used by Palestinian prisoners for their freedom. And a lot of Palestinian political
Speaker:prisoners have actually gained freedom this way.
Speaker:The prisoners movement in general has gained a lot of its rights in Zionist jails through
Speaker:its hunger strikes and its general
Speaker:resistance against the different forms of repression the Zionists used against them.
Speaker:what they want through their hunger strikes and their struggle. And so recently those 50
Speaker:Palestinian political prisoners went on hunger strike. So we called for global wake of action,
Speaker:but they recently suspended their hunger strike. But also in the Palestinian authority prisons
Speaker:right now, which are in full security coordination with the Zionist regime. there are political
Speaker:prisoners who are on hunger strike again. And we see the Palestinian Authority as just another
Speaker:form of Zionist repression because they're in full security coordination with the Zionist
Speaker:regime. They actually, a lot of the prisoners that are now in Zionist regimes were first
Speaker:imprisoned by the PA and handed over to the Zionists. And so they're in full security coordination.
Speaker:And that's the result of the Oslo process that I was talking about earlier. Um, and so the
Speaker:global week of action is really to bring to the forefront, the issue of Palestinian political
Speaker:prisoners. And the, and, and this issue varies, right? Like in, um, we have women prisoners,
Speaker:we have children prisoners. Most people don't really even know that because most of our prisoners
Speaker:are men. That's true, but those still exist. And, um, and the, the issue of prisoners is
Speaker:not only that. They imprison men that are part of the resistance, which is also illegal as
Speaker:an occupying power. But also that there's a lot of medical negligence in Israeli prisoners,
Speaker:which actually causes the death of a lot of our prisoners. And so in the global week of
Speaker:action, a lot of our chapters were having different actions, including popular education, films
Speaker:about prisoners, or just protests. Here in Montreal and also in Toronto, we're also having an action
Speaker:for George Abdullah. George Abdullah is actually Lebanese, not Palestinian, and he was a huge
Speaker:part of the Lebanese and Palestinian resistance in Lebanon at the time, and is now held in
Speaker:French prisons. And at some point, he was bound to be released. But there was a huge... there
Speaker:was huge pressure from both French and, sorry, from American and Zionist lobbies to not release
Speaker:George Abdullah, and he's been in prison for a very, very long time now. And so on the,
Speaker:I think it's the 36th anniversary, 39th, I don't know, Mo, if you remember the number, 39th
Speaker:anniversary of his imprisonment in French jails. And so we're having an action in solidarity
Speaker:with him and we're collecting signatures for a letter that we pretend in solidarity with
Speaker:him. And that also comes back to how the imperialists are a huge part of our struggle for a huge
Speaker:part of the repression of our struggle for liberation. Sorry for the long answer. No, because that's
Speaker:critical, because. Going back to what Mo said earlier, you know, in public opinion, and people
Speaker:may not know what the solution is, and they have a general idea that Palestinians are,
Speaker:I think Mo said, oppressed. But I don't think they know the extent, most of the public don't
Speaker:know the extent of oppression, or the extrajudicial killings. And one thing... that we're starting
Speaker:to see more of on social media in terms of Palestine is the evictions that are happening and the
Speaker:demolishing of Palestinian communities. People see it, anyone can watch that and get mad.
Speaker:It's someone being evicted from their home. Very visceral images, right? That come out,
Speaker:thankfully, that we can witness. But... Can you help place that in the broader perspective?
Speaker:You talk about neocolonialism on your website, and its need to be erased in order to reach
Speaker:the goals of liberation for Palestinian people. What role do these evictions that people are
Speaker:seeing play in that? What's going on there? The ethnic cleansings that we're witnessing
Speaker:right now are definitely intensified. in terms of the point that our struggle is at, but it's
Speaker:by no means a surprise to Palestinians or Arabs. Ethnic cleansing is a continuous process when
Speaker:you're living under a colonial case or under a colonial regime, which Israel is.
Speaker:The images that we see and thankfully to social media, people back home or people are consistently
Speaker:showing the images and the video recordings of what's happening to them and they're spreading
Speaker:them out to the world for the world to see that it's not apartheid only, although apartheid
Speaker:is a part of it and it does exist. It's the fact that we live under a settler colonial
Speaker:regime, and that Palestine is at the heart of an anti-imperialist struggle, and that Palestine
Speaker:and the Arab region is subject to neocolonialism. Our institutions, if not subservient to Western
Speaker:imperial interests, would be demolished and or targeted, right? governments, people's movements
Speaker:are all under that threat. And Palestine is at the forefront of it in a sense, right? Because...
Speaker:Essentially Israel is, and Laura hinted at it, Israel is a Western. intervention or a western
Speaker:creation in a way at the heart of the Arab region. So it guards the interests
Speaker:of those nation states and it furthers them in other aspects throughout and we see that
Speaker:throughout history. the exploitation of resources, the targeting of movements and governments,
Speaker:is all done in coordination between the US primarily and Israel, as well as other countries who
Speaker:subscribe to that agenda. Yeah. I mean, on the topic of home demolitions, actually home demolitions
Speaker:are also... a collective punishment tool that the Zionist regime uses against many of the
Speaker:resistance and the combatants so that if these people are unable to be found by the Zionist
Speaker:forces, then they would threaten them by demolishing their home, by imprisoning their families.
Speaker:And so, you know, the Zionist regime is really... in every aspect of Palestinian life. And it's
Speaker:they're not just after you because you did this or that. But everyone is in collective punishment
Speaker:all of all the time. And that's because in essence, it's an expansionist project that is not limited
Speaker:to, you know, where they stand right now and will continue to expand as long as they have
Speaker:the military and economic power to do so, supported by the imperialists. And in terms of talking
Speaker:about new colonialism, too, I mean, the Palestinian Authority is part of that project as well.
Speaker:And they're one of the... You know, they're a big part of the problem through their security
Speaker:coordination, through a lot of the intelligence that they provide to the Zionist regime. All
Speaker:of that is part of the New Collins Project, and a lot of the normalizing Arab states who...
Speaker:Although their people might not agree with the normalization, their new colonial states with
Speaker:the ruling class's interests are aligned with the imperialists. Can I add on to that? So
Speaker:expanding or just piggybacking? I don't know what the term is. Piggyback? Is it? English
Speaker:is not my first language, on what Laura said. So the Palestinian authorities, what in traditional
Speaker:Marxist terms you would call a compredore class, they're a local elite. They're not exactly
Speaker:the bourgeoisie class that you would level with the Israeli bourgeoisie,
Speaker:similar footing even. They're employed exactly by the Zionist colonial project. So they act
Speaker:as an extension of them and the Palestinian Authority,
Speaker:they do that and they secure their profit and their interest through being arms. of the Zionist
Speaker:regime. So it's a totally different sector, if you will, or a different class from the
Speaker:rest of Palestinian society and the Palestinian struggle. They're not considered part of our
Speaker:struggle, and they're very few and elite in that sense. That seems like a very accurate
Speaker:class analysis there when you described the Palestinian Authority. I think that would surprise
Speaker:some of our listeners. Is that a controversial position within Palestinian activism? I wouldn't
Speaker:say so. I think it's actually a very popular position. It's one that's not been discussed
Speaker:frequently.
Speaker:But it's definitely one that you would hear across the Palestinian community if you speak
Speaker:to your average Palestinian. They don't believe in the Palestinian Authority as a leadership
Speaker:or as an institution. And the Palestinian community is very knowledgeable on the history. So they
Speaker:know that the Oslo, quote unquote, peace process purposefully destroyed their institutions and
Speaker:national leadership. and then replaced it with a comprador class to obstacle any attempts
Speaker:at reviving a national liberation movement or creating a leadership for the people. That
Speaker:creates a kind of a political conundrum, right? So are your appeals then by necessity to the
Speaker:international community always? Like is that... Sorry, I'm struggling here just with so many
Speaker:Palestinians not living in Palestine and the power structure that exists there. Where does
Speaker:this liberation come from then? How do we get those 7 million folks and all of their allies
Speaker:to make a difference? Just help me here. Because I feel like the international community has
Speaker:failed so far, right? That's really... I'll try my best to kind of draw an image here,
Speaker:but... I mean, although the PA exists, we can see right now in Palestine that there is a
Speaker:lot of different formations of popular resistance that are consistently happening. And so these
Speaker:people don't really
Speaker:agree with this class. and continue to do what they want. And for example, the Janine refugee
Speaker:camp, which is in the West Bank, is a camp where neither the PA forces nor the Zionist forces
Speaker:have been able to enter easily, right, and is completely protected. Another important part
Speaker:is that Gaza is technically a form of liberated land. that is fully controlled by the Palestinians
Speaker:internally, although its borders, its sea, are controlled by the Zionists, but there is consistent
Speaker:resistance happening there. And so as a result of the material conditions all over Palestine,
Speaker:there have been new formations that have continued to resist. And organize themselves in all the
Speaker:different ways. And in Raze, there were the marches of return, where every Friday for the
Speaker:longest time, thousands of people would march towards the Raze border, which is the main
Speaker:point where the IOF or the Israeli occupation forces have all their, you know, apparatus.
Speaker:to make sure that no one crosses that border or no movement happens there. And these were
Speaker:forms of popular resistance that went on for a very long time in Gaza. And then also in
Speaker:the refugee camps, there still continues to be some forms of organizing under different
Speaker:banners and different movements that go up and down, I would say. It sounds like the left
Speaker:anywhere, right? Like a contingency of resistance, but needing something whole. I guess that's
Speaker:where you folks come in. It must be so important for you to be in touch with folks on the ground
Speaker:in Palestine to identify these different struggles, amplify them, move in parallel with them and
Speaker:their needs. I imagine you guys have great stories of resistance from inside the occupied territories.
Speaker:And we don't have time for them all here, but I encourage folks to. to seek those out as
Speaker:much as possible because it sounds so daunting, but when then Laura speaks of the different
Speaker:pockets of resistance or different roles that different areas are playing and pushing back,
Speaker:it seems more promising, I think, than it did to me when we started this episode. Just to
Speaker:confirm what you're saying.
Speaker:We're never scared that the resistance in Palestine will stop. You know, very popular Palestinian
Speaker:figure, let's say, Basel Arash, said that, you know, on average still there is resistance
Speaker:happening every single day in Palestine, and that has never stopped. And will never stop
Speaker:until liberation. And I think that is what we've seen. And, you know, the waves come and go,
Speaker:but the consistency is there. Do you drive some of your courage and motivation from hearing
Speaker:those stories? I can only speak for myself, at least in this particular context, but yeah,
Speaker:I definitely do. If you take a look at a Palestinian who lives under siege, who has been amputated,
Speaker:who lives in extreme poverty that even by... the standards that we live in the West, it
Speaker:wouldn't be acceptable or humane. Not that any form of poverty or impoverishment is ever humane.
Speaker:When you look at that and you see them continuously resisting, you have to look at yourself and
Speaker:really find that drive.
Speaker:and you have to sort of steamroll through all the obstacles and the forms of repression that
Speaker:we face here. So we see the resistance back home as an encouragement, as fuel for us to
Speaker:keep going.
Speaker:I'm glad you've got fuel because it's a tough road, you know, from what I've seen friends
Speaker:in the movement go through. And it's even me as so removed from any of these stories, always
Speaker:thought to myself, like I think I was doxed one time after doing a, all I did was martial.
Speaker:All I was a martial at some. a rally at York University and I ended up getting docs and
Speaker:for me it was super upsetting but the only thing that made me feel better was thinking don't
Speaker:be such a baby. Like literally people are fighting for their lives in terms of this cause. A few
Speaker:phone calls from Zionists on my cell phone is something you're just going to have to deal
Speaker:with. But you know I can make light of it because it was just so... It wasn't something so sustained.
Speaker:And I know both of you are so, and a lot of Palestinian youth are really heavily involved
Speaker:in the movement. And we've already talked about why, right? I think that's obvious why. So
Speaker:I'm glad that there's some fuel that lights your fire. And I always enjoy organizing with
Speaker:Palestinian activists because of the joy that still exists. in the actions that I have done
Speaker:despite the heavy material that we're talking about right like exile and poverty and apartheid
Speaker:and the barriers and still there's always dance or song or something warm that comes from it
Speaker:I can't explain it as an outsider, I suppose, but it's just something very unique that I've
Speaker:only ever experienced within those circles. Because I frankly don't know how you do it.
Speaker:And I think I said the same thing to the folks I was interviewing from land back, you know,
Speaker:facing down OPP officers all the time and injunctions and just that's heavy. That's a lot of bombardment
Speaker:mentally, sometimes physically. Right? I appreciate that you guys fight through that. I do. It
Speaker:amazes me, the level of resilience in your work. I don't know if I'd be able to do it, to be
Speaker:honest. So the least I can do is share how and why you do what you do so that folks can perhaps
Speaker:jump in and help or do something similar. for things that matter to them. But if you could
Speaker:have the folks that are listening help you out even more, what would that look like for the
Speaker:Palestinian youth movement? You're probably talking about mostly settler allies, like just
Speaker:demographically speaking. What's our role in helping the Canadian diaspora of Palestinians?
Speaker:She's pointing at you, Mo. So there's... Thankfully, there's a role for everyone in our struggle.
Speaker:Our struggle is not one that's just for Palestinians and Arabs. It's a revolutionary struggle. It's
Speaker:the question of our lifetimes. And that's what Hassan Qanafani taught us, that it's a struggle
Speaker:for every revolutionary who has a stake in the liberation of peoples. So if they're Palestinians
Speaker:or Arabs who fall within the youth demographic, they're more touch with us and to get involved
Speaker:with us, you know, if they're capable and willing. If they're members of the Arab community at
Speaker:large, they can come out to our events, they can support us and show up, you know, they
Speaker:can donate to us if they wish and if they're capable too,
Speaker:in this era.
Speaker:To our solidarity partners, you know, building your struggle is very important to us. The
Speaker:existence of other people's struggles only amplifies, you know, anti-imperialism and anti-colonialism.
Speaker:in a global context. So building up your own communities is also equally important to us.
Speaker:Building up your institutions and organizations that quite frankly challenge both domestic
Speaker:and foreign policies of the nation states that we live in, that's very crucial to the success
Speaker:of people's movements. Because that's mostly what the folks listening are trying to do.
Speaker:Better their unions and better their communities and break down the structures that make it
Speaker:almost impossible for folks to see real change. I think your words will fall on friendly ears.
Speaker:I said this before, but in the show notes, we will share as many resources as we can that
Speaker:will link you back to the Palestinian youth movement. the global week of action they're
Speaker:having, as well as any of the other topics that we brought up. We will try to continue this
Speaker:discussion offline as well as we usually do. I want to thank you so much for coming on here,
Speaker:sharing your motivations, the stories of Palestine and the struggles. I wish your job was easier.
Speaker:I am glad that you are doing it though. I do appreciate it. Do you have any parting words
Speaker:that you would like to share with anybody? Thank you so much, Jessa, for having us. It's honestly
Speaker:been a pleasure speaking with you about this. I mean, parting words is usually, it's really
Speaker:the revolutionary optimism that we all have and our strong belief in the success of our
Speaker:National Liberation Project and all struggles for justice that keep us going. And I hope
Speaker:that other people... also keep that energy going and all the struggles that they're working
Speaker:on. And, you know, people are also always welcome to volunteer with the Palestinian youth movement,
Speaker:if they would like. Thank you so much for having us, Jessa. It's been truly a pleasure and an
Speaker:honor to be on this podcast. The pleasure is all mine, folks. Thank you so much. Like in
Speaker:all things that we do, there is a team behind Blueprints of Disruption. I want to give a
Speaker:big thank you to our producers, Santiago, Hello Quintero, and Jay Woodruff. Our show is also
Speaker:made possible by the support of our listeners. So if you appreciate our content and would
Speaker:like to become a Patreon, please visit us at www.patreon.com.au.
Speaker:So if you know of any work that should be amplified or wanna provide feedback of our show, please
Speaker:reach out to us on Twitter at BPofDisruption.
