Today my guest is the wonderful Coach Cat, aka Catherine Buck Le.

Cat is a StrongFirst Team Leader Elite, and the Head Strength Coach at C&C Coaching.

She is a former Microsoftie, former co-owner of Krav Maga Seattle, aspiring YouTuber, kettlebell fanatic, avid hiker, paddleboarder, traveler, and delicious healthy meal-prepper.

In this episode we’re talking about how to stay consistent with the behaviors required to meet your health, fitness and weight loss goals, even when you don’t feel like it. And more importantly she shares how to maintain those behaviors and create lasting lifestyle and body change. Hint: it’s not as hard as you may think!

Where to find Cat:

Website: https://www.catandchau.com/

Cat’s Links Page: https://www.catandchau.com/links/

Kettlebell 101 (course for beginners): https://catandchau.tv/

Instagram:

https://www.instagram.com/catandchau/

https://www.instagram.com/catbuckle/

Books we discussed:

Young Forever: The Secrets to Living Your Longest, Healthiest Life by Dr. Mark Hyman

Atomic Habits: An Easy & Proven Way to Build Good Habits & Break Bad Ones by James Clear

Tiny Habits: The Small Changes That Change Everything by BJ Fogg, PhD

Disclaimer:

This podcast and website represents the opinions of Jeannie Oliver and her guests to the show and website. The content here should not be taken as medical advice. The content here is for informational and entertainment purposes only, and because you are unique, please consult your healthcare professional with any medical questions.

This website or podcast should not be used in any legal capacity whatsoever, including but not limited to establishing “standard of care” in a legal sense or as a basis for expert witness testimony.  No guarantee is given regarding the accuracy of any statements or opinions made on the podcast or website.

In no way does listening, reading, emailing or interacting on social media with our content establish a doctor-patient relationship.

Privacy is of utmost importance to us. All people, places, and scenarios mentioned in the podcast have been changed to protect patient/client confidentiality.

Views and opinions expressed in this podcast are our own and do not represent that of our employers. While we make every effort to ensure that the information we are sharing is accurate, we welcome any comments, suggestions, or correction of errors.

Interested in working with Jeannie? Schedule a 30-minute Coffee Talk here.

Connect with me on Instagram @joliverwellness and check out the options for my more affordable self-study programs here: https://www.joliverwellness.com/diy-programs

Music credit: Funk’d Up by Reaktor Productions

A Podcast Launch Bestie production

Well, hey everybody.

Welcome back to the nutrition edit.

My guest today is Kat Buck Lee Katt.

I am so excited to have you with me.

Thanks

for joining us.

Thank you so much for having me.

I'm, I'm pumped.

I'm thrilled to have you here.

So tell us a little bit about yourself and your background.

We met, gosh, I don't know, what

year was it that you founded?

Seattle 20 20 14.

2014.

Okay.

So yeah, I've known you since 2014.

I know when I came there to try to learn to learn self-defense

and learn to be a badass.

You totally are a badass.

Oh gosh.

I pay you later.

I wish.

I wish.

Um, but yeah, tell us a little bit about your background.

Yeah.

So, thank you again for having me.

I'm Katt, um, I am a.

Strong first team leader and a strong first elite instructor.

And that just basically means, I teach people how to use

kettlebells safely, right?

To get stronger.

Um, so that's kind of my specialty.

in terms of.

My certifications and my background.

I'm certified as a nas, a National Academy of Sports Medicine, personal

trainer, also Ground Force Method, which is a movement practice.

Flexible steel, T R X and precision Nutrition.

so those are kind of my, my tools that I draw on in my coaching practice.

but I haven't always.

Been a coach.

I actually, before Cho and I opened our gym, crown Seattle, which we

had from 2014 up and through 2021.

Uh, we both worked at Microsoft.

I basically, my first job outta college was in the corporate

world, Microsoft, the tech world.

So, uh, it wasn't until 20.

13 20 14 that we decided to, step away from those corporate jobs and,

become gym owners and open our own gym, which was an amazing seven year

wild ride of entrepreneurship and just growing this big successful gym.

Uh, and it was great.

We also took, the opportunity in 2021 to kind of step away from the

intensity of the gym owner life.

and now we've been just focusing more on our online business, our YouTube channel,

our coaching, coaching our students, doing some business coaching, and just kind

of, you know, growing and testing out our, our current offerings as coaches.

So, um, that's kind of, kind of the main intro, I think.

Yeah, very cool.

So good.

So, I would love to hear too, a little further back.

I know that we have talked, you and I personally about

our relationships with food.

but yeah, like you said, you haven't always been this amazing fitness goddess.

God.

Okay.

Goddess is deed exaggeration, but thank And not far, not far off.

Yeah.

I would just love for you to share whatever you're willing to as far as

your journey and your relationship with food from, you know, as a

young woman, um, to where you're at

now.

Yeah, happy to.

So, basically from my childhood, all the way up through my early

to mid twenties, I had a great relationship with food, no issues.

Um, you know, my mom did a lot of cooking and there was just a lot of variety

and just kind of, you could say I was a normal eighties and nineties kid, right?

Like we would have.

Dinners with a variety of like meats and veggies and you know,

rice and potatoes and stuff.

And it was a lot of homemade stuff.

but there was also nothing restrictive, in my growing up years.

And we enjoyed, you know, ice cream and chips and, you know, cookies and whatever.

Just that sort of normal balanced, non-restrictive, but

also having like a variety of.

Nutritious foods, right.

So, yeah, like really thankful for that.

Like had an amazing.

Kind of household and family, and environment for developing that healthy

relationship with food, which I think is a really thing in my early years.

Yeah, maybe.

Yeah.

I think about it a lot actually.

'cause I, spend a lot of time with, friends and, you know,

people who have young kids.

And it's interesting to see sort of that spectrum of some kids who are very open

to trying new things and who are open to.

maybe they have a favorite vegetable, maybe they have a favorite protein and

they're doing well in that spectrum.

And then to the other end of the spectrum where, kids who really

struggle with being open to that.

Um, and I don't wanna go down a rabbit hole, but I.

I think I was really lucky to just kind of be like, that kid that's like, yeah,

like steamed carrots with butter on them.

Great, like broccoli with mayo on it.

Awesome.

We had a lot of mayo, so we kind of had that like variety

and that healthy relationship.

So, it wasn't until.

I started working at Microsoft, in my early to mid twenties.

and I think there were a couple things going on there that led me

down this path of disordered eating.

And eventually, actually in my mid twenties, for about

three years, I was bulimic.

and.

You know, looking back on that, I think there were a couple things

that kind of crossed in my life.

One of those things was me just being naturally a type A personality and

a very achievement focused person.

you know, maybe a perfectionist in some areas of my life in those

achievement areas of my life.

So I think kind of being that very, Type a person then crossed over with.

I think me feeling quite insecure about, sort of like dating and like guys.

Mm-hmm.

I felt very left out, I think in that world where I felt like, You know

that feeling where you're like, all my friends are in serious relationships and

they're in these committed relationships.

And I sort of was always like the single fun one, who wasn't

in a committed relationship.

And so I think when you took those two things of like, Being

in a, a corporate job, a demanding corporate job, a type A personality.

So you have the stress, in your life coming from those things.

And then combine that with, some sort of probably deep-seated

insecurities about my.

Social slash dating life.

I think that ended up being sort of this toxic cocktail of, where is

that stress and anxiety gonna go?

Right?

Right.

And everybody manifests their anxiety and stress in different ways.

So for me as that 20 something like, go-getter, In the corporate world

that manifested in food, right?

And having foods be either sort of forbidden, or allowed.

And then, you know, it developing into like, you know, secret, like

hidden, like binge and purge.

Issues.

Um, yeah.

So yeah, I think that was obviously one of the darker chapters of my life.

I'm very, very, you know, thankful to be where I am today and we can talk

more about like how I got from there to, to here, um, where I feel great about

myself and my relationship with food.

But yeah, I think that that was a, a big sort of hurdle that I

had to get over and you really helped me, even though I wasn't.

Bulimic, when I saw you as a coach, I still needed your help in letting

go of some of those, like vestiges of, disordered eating mindset.

So, yeah.

Well,

I am honored and humbled to have played some small part in that

because I think that it was a big part.

You're, yeah, just everything you've accomplished and

the person that you are is.

Incredibly inspirational.

So, um, thank you for sharing that with us because I think that so many

of us men too, but women especially, have had that period in our life where,

you know, it was a perfect storm or.

Many of, I mean, like myself, we may have grown up in a situation where

disordered eating was modeled for us and where the emphasis was always put on

being thin enough being pretty enough.

Mm-hmm.

All of these things.

And so there's this overemphasis right of, of looks.

And so I think it's very common in our culture for us

to equate looks or body size.

Type with, with value.

Yeah, yeah, totally.

Which obviously

we know in our heads is not the case, but it's

really hard to reprogram that.

And so that's, I think, a fascinating part of your story because I just

think it's really encouraging for people to hear like, oh yeah, you can

come from a place where you've felt.

Like essentially like a slave to food or like it was in control.

Mm-hmm.

And you were out of control.

Mm-hmm.

Or, you know, it felt like I'll never have a relationship with food that's healthy.

and so I always love to talk with other women and have guests on who

have overcome that and come out the other side because it is possible.

And there are times when you're in the midst of that where it

doesn't feel like you'll ever.

Be normal or feel

normal.

Yeah.

Uh, and when, where it doesn't feel like, like it's so hard in that when you're

in it to have that big of a secret.

Mm-hmm.

And that big of like a shame, a shame spiral secret, that you feel like,

because there's so much shame and stigma attached to it, so you feel like you

can't talk, tell anybody about it, and, but it's, but it is controlling your

life and you do feel out of control.

So, yeah.

And I think that there are a lot of.

You know, you're not gonna overcome something like that with just like

one approach or, or one bullet.

Right?

Right.

Like, you have to approach it from like your emotional health and your,

you know, what's the, what's the root cause and, you know, so, uh,

you, you need, almost like this.

Team of, of things that you need to do where, how are you

approaching your exercise?

How are you approaching your work?

How are you approaching your relationship with food?

How are you're approaching your relationship with others?

And you have to almost fix all of those things, at least to a certain extent

in order to like take that step out of the whole of like an eating disorder.

So yeah,

absolutely.

It's that holistic whole person, whole body approach.

I think so many people are like, well, just tell me what to eat.

Oh, no.

That's the worst.

It's one piece of the puzzle.

Yeah.

One piece of the puzzle.

So I, I remember you telling me too, like when I was working with you,

you said there are a few like truth bombs that like I still remember

nine years later, and one of them was when I was telling you this story,

you were like, oh, you were missing.

Emotional food, like soul food, and that part was empty, and so you, mm-hmm.

Filled it with like, sort of this like binge and purge like cycle.

And I was like, wow, that was a truth bomb.

That was so true.

So yeah, you had a lot of great insights.

Uh, well, you know, I've been there, I've been there.

I've struggled with bulimia for years, for years, and the binge eating and

purging and all that awful stuff, it's a really miserable, horrible

place to be and it really does feel like it might be an endless trap.

but it's true.

It's usually we're trying to fill some other void, right?

Yes.

That, that isn't fulfilled in our lives.

So, I want you to talk a little bit about, because one of, one of the things when you

were teaching Kav, Maat, tell us a little.

About what Kav MAGA is for people who aren't familiar.

Oh, yes.

And then how you guys got into it and eventually founded a gym.

And then another aspect of that that I'd love for you to touch

on is the empowerment aspect of Kav maga, which I find.

Is present for sure in any kind of strength training, especially for women.

But I think there's something about Kav MAGA and being able, like

knowing that you can defend yourself.

That's really.

Powerful and, just empowering and liberating.

So yeah, that was kind of a three parter,

but yeah.

How did you first

start ch Maga and then end up founding the gym?

So, well Cro we'll do like what is Ch Maga?

So, ch MAGA is a, uh, combat system that was developed by

and for the Israeli military.

so it comes from Israel and they.

The founder or the guy who created it basically wanted to create what he felt

was the most effective self-defense and combat system that he could come up with.

And he kind of borrowed all the things that he liked the most

from boxing, from wrestling, from, you know, kickboxing from.

Grappling, you know, so he kind of was like, I'm gonna take all these

pieces and put it together into this system that I think is gonna be

the most effective for sort of a, a street scenario or combat scenario.

so the reason how we got into it, I mean, Cho has been practicing it.

He just found it when he was.

In his twenties, he was like, I wanna look for a cool martial art to do.

And came across it and he was like, whoa, they do headbutts.

This is so cool.

So, um, but he got into it first, obviously, and when I moved from Seattle

to Toronto in 2009, for a job in that Microsoft office and also 'cause.

To kind of explore where things with me and Joe are gonna go.

We were sort of like, oh, let's try this out.

He was already an instructor in Kav Maga at Kav MAGA Toronto.

So he was already teaching at the Toronto school.

And so I moved there and I was like, yeah, of course I'm gonna be part of your gym.

I mean, great.

and so I became a student at Kav MAGA Toronto, and I do remember, I actually

wrote in my notes for this podcast, the word empowering, because that,

for me was a shift from, um, basically just doing like a lot of running.

I did half marathons all the time.

I was just doing like massive amounts of cardio and running, which was obviously

linked to, you know, like mm-hmm.

The, the foods.

It was sort of like, Sort of borderline, excessive exercise slash cardio

combined with like the food issues.

It's all the same form thing going on.

Yeah.

and so I switched to the workouts at Cro MAGA Toronto and Yes, for sure,

I felt that those trainings were very empowering because yes, you're learning

skills for self-defense, but also just.

That effectiveness of high intensity interval training.

obviously in my forties I don't this, you know, you kind of train a different

way in your forties than you do in your twenties and early thirties, but

back then it was like high intensity interval training was super, I.

Cool and efficient and you know, it did have more kind of muscle and

strength building than just running.

Right, right.

So it was kind of, I would say, my gateway drug into, uh, I would say

more effective types of training.

So yeah, chose an instructor.

He was like one of the lead instructors.

I was a student there.

That's how I got into it.

And then it was over those next few years when we were, we were kind of making our.

Plans, to move back to the Seattle area.

We were like, you know, we could open up a Kav MAGA gym as well, and

that would be kind of like our dream.

so that's what we did.

Very cool.

I love it.

Yeah, the empowerment piece of any strength training, I

think is, is really wonderful.

Kav, Maga, I, I remember referring several people to you and I still refer them to

different self-defense classes, especially women who have been attacked or have had

any kind of, you know, physical abuse.

And I think that that's a really great way to kind of come out of that victim

Place and into a place of, of empowerment and of strength and, and power.

Kettlebells.

So this is something that like, eventually I'm gonna invest

in Kettlebells for myself.

I wanna do it so much.

Talk to me a little more about how you got into kettlebell training and

kind of the difference between that and, traditional weight training.

Okay.

so we mentioned that we opened to the gym in 2014, and at that time, Cho was already

a pretty high level K mago instructor.

and I, as the co-owner, I, I mean, I was still working at Microsoft at the time.

I left a little bit later.

I didn't have any like fitness certifications yet, and so we had to

answer the question, what's the most.

Effective sort of fitness slash strength and conditioning offering

that makes sense for us to offer alongside to support Kav, maga and,

and a martial arts type offering.

And so I remember we considered, we considered a few different options.

We considered CrossFit and we considered kettlebells.

I wanna say there was probably sort of like a generic circuit training option

that was probably on the table as well.

And we chose Kettlebells as what, what we would offer at K M Ss,

because they're known for being really effective in martial arts.

training like as like the tool for martial artists.

So whether it's, you know, like an m m a fighter or something like, uh,

kettlebells have always been known as like one of the more effective and kind

of popular tools in that world, just 'cause they're so versatile and there's

a lot of like explosive power, and conditioning stuff that you can do with

them that is a, a little bit harder to do.

with barbells like barbell, especially power lifting like deadlift

and bench press and back squat.

I mean that builds, I.

Raw strength, but it, it doesn't necessarily build a lot of mobility

and agility and speed and quickness that you need for martial arts.

So we wanted Sure.

Makes sense that Yeah.

We're like, what is a tool that you can use that not only builds strength

and, you know, muscle, but also, um, quickness, speed, explosive power,

and doesn't kind of put you in a place where you're like almost like

locked up from a mobility perspective.

Right, right.

Um, so yeah, so we chose Kettlebells for that reason, and then I just kind

of started researching certifications and you know, who um, who did a

great job at teaching Kettlebells.

And so I ended up choosing Strong First.

and I went to the level one kettlebell level one certification

for instructors in 2015.

And, you know, you could say the rest is history and I think What

I found, obviously I worked with coaches to get ready for it.

Like you need a coach to get ready for that certification.

'cause it's very demanding and the technique is, the technique

testing is pretty exacting.

Um, and so through working with my coaches, and also through the experience

of that weekend that it's a three day certification, I don't know, I think

I felt like I found my people when you surround yourself with, I mean

there were like men and women there.

It wasn't like a, it didn't feel like a male dominated at all.

It actually was very kind of 50 50 split on men and women at that certification.

And you, or I guess what my experience was is that I found

people who really cared about, um, not only challenging themselves.

Physically and mentally, but also sharing and spreading that knowledge.

And so I think, yeah, I, I actually have a hard time putting my finger on

exactly what it was, but it definitely was that feeling of like, oh, I.

These are my people.

Yeah.

They wanna, they wanna push themselves.

They wanna train for something that's like a hard goal, right?

They don't wanna just be like, uh, I'm just going to relax, like all the time.

Like, yeah, believe me, I love relaxing, but I don't wanna only do that.

Right.

I also wanna kind of push my boundaries a bit and see what I can do.

Um, and I, and I found that at that certification and it

also gave me a path, right?

Where I'm like, oh my gosh, I went to this thing and I passed and I, and I did it.

And it was an amazing feeling of accomplishment.

Yeah.

And let's come back to performance-based goals, because I totally was.

Taking notes, I definitely want us to talk about that.

Um, but so you have these performance goals that you, that

you just achieve and you crush them, and you're like, what's next?

Right?

Mm-hmm.

Like, I hit a performance goal.

What's the next thing that I can train for and learn and grow and, um, you know,

become stronger, not just physically.

Yes, becoming physically stronger is a, you know, a huge part of it, but

also like building your sort of mental fortitude and, and learning as you go.

So that was a little bit long answer, but you could tell it

was an impactful weekend for me.

And since then I've been to lots and lots of strong first events and certifications.

So

awesome.

Yeah, it's, I love to hear you talk about it because you do get so excited about it.

So let's go down that performance goal path, because I think that that is

something that is much more motivating.

And you know, that's what we're kind of talking about today is this finding

lasting motivation or staying the course.

And a lot of people struggle with that.

Mm-hmm.

And I, In my practice over 10 years, I really frequently see that just having

some sort of a weight loss goal or body fat percentage goal is not enough.

It's

not enough for people Yeah.

To stick to something.

Right.

And that often they are much more excited about pursuing an

actual performance or athletic goal event.

Something along those lines.

So, so talk a little bit about performance

goals.

Yes.

So agree.

Like, and I know that you, you work with a lot of women, you

have a lot of women listeners.

So I think I'll probably talk a little bit more from the

point of view of women right.

In this, in this question and answer.

But, I think for me and you and probably for a lot of other women making that

fundamental shift from trying to just be smaller and thinner and take up

less space towards, Trying to, be, you know, stronger or able to, to

accomplish something is a fundamental like mindset and identity shift that can.

You know, fundamentally improve the quality of your life and

improve your overall, just like self-confidence, self-esteem,

and mental and emotional health.

Absolutely.

so examples of performance based goals.

I mean, for me, like passing the strong first level one kettlebell

instructor certification was sort of the first big one.

I mean, before that I did do half marathons and I'd be like, I wanna

get like sub one hour and 50 or, you know, I mean that's, that's still a

performance based goal and that's fine.

But I think when I stepped away from a very heavy cardio version of a performance

based goal into, okay, I have to complete the snatch test, 100 snatches with the

16 kg 35 pound bell in five minutes, you know, to like a, an exacting standard

on top of the other skills that you're tested on, uh, with these specific

weights that really Got me away from this place of just trying to be smaller.

Mm-hmm.

and instead working towards these performance-based goals.

And yeah.

So the cool thing is that it's okay to have aesthetic goals, right?

Like that's, there's nothing wrong with that.

And a and a lot of us do, but you, in order for it to work,

you have to sort of couch them in goals around what you can do.

when you're focused on the goal of what you can do, a lot of times the

aesthetic things will happen sort of naturally without trying it or Right.

Not without trying, but you know what I mean, without having to focus on it.

Yeah.

It's a side benefit.

Yes.

Yes.

And I feel like that ends up being that really healthy mental space.

but yeah, I wrote down like a few different examples, like.

Of of different ways that you can structure your goals

that are not just aesthetic.

So one of them is performance-based goals, being able to pass the snatch test,

um, being able to, you know, pass like the, the do a, a proper getup, right?

Turkish getup that passes the, the skills testing standard.

Um, you know, being able to do a chin up or a pull up, right?

Yeah.

And then in order to do that, you have to have a plan and you have to

have structure to your plan and work towards something, um, which is a.

Amazing process to kind of like put yourself through and work with a coach.

Um, you can also even just have technique goals.

So I have a student right now who is working on her, um,

squat, like her goblet squat.

And even though we're not loading up her goblet squat super heavy, like

she's still using, you know, the 25 pound bell, like sometimes the 35 pound

bell, but nothing like crazy heavy.

Mm-hmm.

But she's come so far where at first she wasn't able to do a goblet

squat without her spine rounding.

Mm-hmm.

and that's sort of like a, a key technique thing in the squat.

In order to squat safely and with strength, you wanna keep

what's called a neutral spine.

So, Without getting into the details of that, she was having trouble with that.

And so we've been working on her mobility and her technique and finding the

right depth so that she can now squat with a neutral spine and be like, oh,

this is passing the standard of what a safe and strong squat looks like.

Right.

So even just improving your technique and hitting certain technique standards

is a great goal, to shoot for.

And I'd

love to interject something on that.

Yeah, go ahead.

When we're talking about, and I discussed this a little bit in an episode with

Dustin Hassard in season one, but when we're talking about technique, it is so

crucial to focus on that because I think that there are a lot of people that are

just getting out there and doing workouts with not a lot of focus on techniques.

Mm-hmm.

And what can happen there is you can find yourself getting injured, you can

have pain that comes out of doing things incorrectly with improper body mechanics.

Mm-hmm.

And.

That is not where we wanna go.

You're better off to do much lighter weights and really perfect

a movement and then mm-hmm.

Gradually increase.

Mm-hmm.

So that you're getting the full benefit of that movement and

preventing injury, preventing pain.

You know, this leads into a whole conversation about aging well and mm-hmm.

Staying mobile and agile as we age versus, you know, hitting your workouts super

hard, not doing it correctly, ending up injured or hurting, and then you don't,

you can't work out consistently anymore, and then you're not reaching your goals.

And then it's that awful vicious cycle where people just lose motivation.

They get, you know, discouraged and.

It's, it's really hard to stick with something if, if you're in pain

all the time or getting hurt often.

Yeah.

Oh my gosh, you touched on so much there, there.

That was such a rich, like, like retro multilayered.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I'm like, oh my gosh, I could take three different things from this

and just go off for 10 minutes, which I won't, but, but yes, 100%.

Um, if you had.

Told 23 year old me that I would've been like, whatever.

Yeah.

I'm just gonna do a hundred burpees.

Like, that's the best way to burn calories.

Like whatever.

I was there, you know, in, in my twenties just doing Oh, me too.

Doing stuff that was super high intensity.

Um, oh, Shanti Insanity.

Yeah.

In the basement, like, oh yeah.

And some Shanti, but yeah, yeah, absolutely.

Yeah.

Like, started with P 90 X and then went into Shan T, which like upped to the ante.

It was like crazy, like 180 degree jump squats until you were

like, basically gonna throw up.

So anyway, I, I've been there, right?

I used to be in that school of thought.

And that's another, like, we already talked about one mindset

shift, which was, you know, moving towards performance-based goals.

Another like, key, key mindset shift as we age.

Like what you said is moving towards, um, focusing on.

Learning the skill and learning the technique.

And what we, what my coaches taught me and what we say in the strong

first system is strength is a skill, and you have to earn the load.

Mm.

I love that.

So earn the load, right?

Like, so if you need to learn how to, let's use the Turkish getup because

that's a, a very specific kettle.

It's a kettlebell move.

Um, and b, it's, uh, it has a lot of steps.

It's more complicated than your average, bicep curl or something like that, right?

So with the getup, we are very, and any movement we're like, You have to

learn it body weight first with Nobel.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

And, and understand the strongest and safest positions at each

step so that you're never putting your shoulder joint at risk.

You're never putting your spine and your vertebrae at risk.

You're never putting your knees at risk.

And so when we teach it, even if somebody is just doing it body weight, we're

like, I want you to pretend you have a hundred pound kettlebell overhead.

Mm-hmm.

Right?

Would would you do whatever it is you're doing with a hundred pound kettlebell?

Yeah, no, let's figure out the way to do it so that you in theory, could do

it with a hundred pound kettlebell and not rip your shoulder out, you know?

And so, right.

Yeah.

I'm not gonna say I was perfect at it.

I'm, I'm sure there were times that I maybe like resisted it a little bit.

Um, but I did eventually arrive at this place where it's like every single.

Time you go to workout, we actually call it a practice.

Mm-hmm.

Like a skill practice.

You know, it's the same idea as a musician sitting down at the piano and practicing.

You're practicing your military press, you're practicing your swing.

And when you make that shift, like the strength gains come a lot faster

and you get the results a lot faster because you are using your whole

body the way it was meant to be used.

And you're not putting it at risk and you're not taxing it in

a way that is, um, detrimental.

'cause like you mentioned, putting yourself at risk of injury and pain as, as

the negative things that can happen when you're just always pushing it too hard.

Mm-hmm.

you can also, I think Dustin mentioned this tax, your nervous system.

Yes.

Yeah, absolutely.

Like you're, your, basically it's the computer, right?

The computer is the thing that is telling all your muscles to.

Tense up and, and flex, right?

Like your brain and your, your spinal cord and all those things

are like sending those signals.

And so if you're, every time you work out three days a week, four days a

week, five days a week, you're maxing out at a hundred percent effort.

Your central nervous system just is like, ah, you know, it just fries.

Yeah.

And you feel really tired and you can't, it's that like tired and wired feeling.

Mm-hmm.

And there are, um, anyway, I'll get off that tangent, but there are a

lot of like negative impacts of just always like pushing it really hard.

So,

and pushing it too hard, too frequently.

So you're not getting that recovery time.

Correct.

Correct.

Like you wanna, what we call, um, wave the load.

So like really, really high level.

Let's say you train strength during three days a week and you're on a training plan.

A very easy way to structure that is light day, heavy day, medium day.

Mm.

And that's sort of like that, that naturally allows you to, um, build

strength, but without overtaxing your, your body and your system.

And

does that look different for everyone or are you

doing those each with like a, a rest or restorative day in between

yeah.

You, I mean, usually you want like a rest day in between,

especially after a heavy day.

You know, a rest day could look like, it could look like a long walk.

It could be light cardio, it could be, um, some really light strength

work that's not, super heavy.

It could be yoga or you know, like you don't have to just do nothing.

Um, but you just wouldn't wanna do back to back like heavy days.

Yeah,

absolutely.

I've seen that happen so often with I, I don't know if it's so frequent

anymore, but when the CrossFit thing was huge at first, I would see that

so frequently, people doing like five days in a row of CrossFit.

Yeah.

And then just always injured.

Yeah, I know.

I don't wanna like go too far down that.

Right.

I mean, there's some really, really great coaches.

Depends on the coach coaches, right?

Yeah, exactly.

Yeah.

There's some amazing CrossFit coaches.

But I do think that there was a mentality of like, go a

hundred percent all the time.

Um, yeah.

Within CrossFit that did cause some harm.

Right.

And I think that CrossFit as a system is, is amazing.

I mean, it introduces people to kettlebells and barbell and like

pull-ups and you know, it, it, it brought a lot of these things into the

mainstream and you know, it brought strong women into the mainstream.

Yeah.

And the, across the games there's so many positive things

about it, but you're right.

You do need to wave the load Right, exactly.

And make sure that you're building whatever you're doing recovery as well.

Yeah.

Yeah, definitely.

well I wanna make sure we touch on any other points that you wanted to

make about performance training, but I think it's a frequent mistake that

people start to work out and think, oh, I'm increasing my calorie burn because

I'm working out and I could instantly be losing weight, seeing that needle

move on the scale, what have you.

And I think that one of the really cool things that for me is a really, motivating

performance-based goal is just tracking my weights and I, you know mm-hmm.

I don't have, so I don't do kettlebell training yet, but just

with traditional weight training.

Yeah.

Telling whatever weights I'm using and seeing like, oh, I'm actually

able to increase my weights every week or every other week.

That is motivating too.

So I think that that can be another form of a performance

goal where you're seeing progress.

So even if you don't think, oh, well maybe my body composition

isn't changing as rapidly as I want it to, um, you can actually see,

but I'm actually gaining strength.

Like things are changing here.

Oh yeah.

I'm making real progress.

And when people start to focus on that, instead of, am I losing weight,

it's, you know, it's just, yeah.

More motivating.

Motivating, oh

yeah.

Long term.

A PR is a PR and I, I mean, you have to recognize those wins and celebrate those

wins and almost like keep your eye out and kind of be looking for them in your life.

Um, because they're, they're important and you have to, you

know, celebrate the small things.

Like I have one student, I love her because she has such an open

mind and she's very, Consistent, but she's also a total beginner

and so she's in her early sixties.

Awesome.

And yeah, and she came to me because her mom recently died, I wanna

say in the past, like two years.

and she was, you know, caregiving and she said that she saw her mom's

world just shrink and get smaller and smaller and smaller because of

her mom just not being physically able to really do anything anymore.

And so she was like, I'm 61.

And it's, it's, it's never too late, right?

Like it is never too late to start.

And she was like, I want quality of life.

I want longevity, but I want quality.

So I'm gonna learn how to use.

Kettlebells.

So, so she, I love, that's why she's working with me

and some of her small wins.

I mean, this is a small win, but take the win where she was like, you know, I

noticed that in the morning I have my cup of coffee and I sit down in my sort of

like easy chair and before I started doing strength training, I would have to put

down my cup and then like sit down, right?

Because I didn't wanna spill the coffee all over me.

Mm-hmm.

She's like, but now I just wasn't even thinking about it

and I just sat down with my cup.

Right.

Because we built up her strength and her balance and her proprioception, which

is basically like this big word for like knowing where your body is in space.

you know, so like, sure, that's a lot of people would be like, okay, that's kind

of a small thing, but it's a big thing.

Right.

You have to be like, yes.

Like that's, especially if

you lose it, that ability, right?

Yeah.

And you realize like, oh my God.

yeah.

My mom had something similar where she was like, I realized the day that I can't.

If I sit on the ground, like I have to get up on all fours and then mm-hmm.

Stand up.

Mm-hmm.

that's a big indicator of, just longevity in, in general

is how easy or hard is it to get up and down off the floor.

Yeah.

And I think that that is something that, thankfully I am seeing more often that

we, women are realizing, Hey, I wanna actually have quality of life because I

could be living quite a while, you know?

Yeah.

Living longer, not necessarily better.

So how can we live better?

How can we train for that health span, right.

Creating a healthier, better, higher quality of lives for ourselves.

Yeah.

Long term, how can we protect our brains?

Right.

All of these things that.

Strength training does for us.

I mean, I talk over and over about increasing your insulin

sensitivity by increasing muscle and just using your muscles, um,

preventing Alzheimer's and dementia.

It's, it's all intertwined.

Yeah, it's all

intertwined.

Yeah.

We, that's a really powerful story.

We both read, Cho and I both read, um, young Forever, Dr.

Mark Hyman's most recent book, we listened to it.

Love him.

Yeah.

I found him out from you 'cause you would share a bunch of his stuff.

And so I'm, so I like follow him.

And then his new book came out.

So we both finished it.

And for your listeners read Young Forever by Dr.

Mark Hyman.

he really nails it in terms of what to eat, what not to eat.

Movement.

Okay.

I actually gave the book to my mom 'cause she's a big reader and we

were just talking about it and we're like, yeah, I'll give you the book.

And um, I went through the table of contents and I'm like,

okay, read this, read this.

I was like, you can probably skip the chapter about blood replacement

therapy because that's kind out there.

Yeah.

That's very advanced.

I'm not even gonna, most people

are not gonna find that accessible and

practical.

Yeah.

Yeah.

There are a few things that he talks about that are like, like out there

and I'm like, don't worry about that.

Right.

But I'm like, pay close attention to everything he's saying about food

and movement because it's Right.

And guess what?

The American Heart Association is way off.

Mm-hmm.

This is where I also get passionate, where I'm like, they're lying to you, you know?

Um, in terms of, of food and nutrition.

So yeah, like for sure, like the idea of health span and how do you optimize

your health span because, It's sad people, so many people today think

that it's expected and inevitable to lose your ability to move mm-hmm.

And move well and get up off on the ground and be able to play with your

kids on the floor and, um, you know, like go on a hike and go on a bike.

They, they're like, oh, those are, those are things that

you just do up until you're 40 something and then you just stop.

Yeah.

And I'm like, no, it's, it doesn't have to be that way.

And it's, Yeah.

Like, it, it is sad because I feel like there are a lot of people

that are trapped by that mindset.

And I know you and I we're like, oh no, I'm gonna go biking

through France when I'm 75.

Amen.

Sister.

Like, let's do this.

Yeah.

So, yeah.

Yeah.

Another one of my guests this season is, um, a man named Bruce Berry.

He's a, he's a local endurance athlete.

74.

Cool years old.

Wow.

Incredible.

And he's talking a lot about that, you know, ancestral health and, and

health span and how we can live better.

The, you know, as in every phase of life, which I think is really exciting.

And that brings us, I wanna segue into something, because when we

talk about lasting motivation, I think that we need to recalibrate

what healthy means to us because.

You know, the generation that, and I'm a little older than you, but

growing up, you know, eighties, nineties, it was kind of like, well,

if you're thin, you must be healthy.

Which we now know is absolutely not true.

Mm-hmm.

Um, no extreme on, you know, the body composition scale is, is gonna be healthy.

what does being healthy mean to you, Katt.

And why, why do you think that Just looking at the scale is problematic when

we're trying to measure our progress.

Yeah.

I'll start with the first part of that question.

So what does being healthy mean to me?

So I think of it sort of in two buckets or categories.

So you have, um, your physical health category, and then you have your sort

of mental, emotional health mm-hmm.

Category.

And they're, they're tied, they're not separate, they're just No, definitely.

I'm just, I'm, I'm verbalizing them as being two different

things, but it's all one thing.

And so I would put in that physical bucket, like, you know, what

you're putting in your body in terms of food, you know, hydration

probably falls in there too.

movement and rest as well.

so that's kind of your, your physical being, right?

And knowing how to, you know, eat, drink, move, and rest in ways that promote.

Health and just being able to do the things you wanna do and

feeling gr good and having good energy and all these things.

And then I think in terms of the emotional mental side, um,

that's your emotional health.

It's understanding like, hey, like, you know, we have a

therapist that we talk to Yeah.

From time to time, like, that's your coach, right.

For your mental, emotional health and sort of untying, he talks about untying knots.

Mm-hmm.

your background, right?

And your family and your upbringing.

You'll have knots, you'll have thing walls that you'll run into and you need

that, that coach, that therapist and that guide to tell you like, oh, here's how we

can like, resolve this and untie this so that you can move forward with something.

and then just, you know, having community, right?

You could be.

A perfect healthy eater.

You could be a perfect person for exercise, like, you

know, perfectly hydrated.

Like let's say you're perfect in all those areas, but if you don't have any, friends

or family or relationships that are meaningful that you can maintain, yeah,

I wouldn't say you're healthy, right?

So, right.

What, what is your community?

and then just, you know, being a kind of person and having a

purpose in your life purpose.

I don't know.

I don't know if that answers the question.

That's No, it absolutely

does.

I, I think that those are really great points to make, that people can focus on,

because to me, that lasting motivation comes from all of those aspects, right?

And the more of those things that we can have as drivers for our goals, the better,

the more likely we are to reach 'em, and the more likely we are to enjoy the.

Process and the journey to reach those goals.

Yeah.

Yeah, I think so.

With goal setting too.

I, 'cause we, I think we were, we were chatting about goal setting, earlier is

I'll say that, you and I are.

Far from perfect.

And we're working on lots of things.

Yes.

But there are certain things that we have sort of mastered, right?

Like, you know, prioritizing like veggies and protein and whole foods,

and not eating a lot of processed stuff.

Right?

Right.

Like we've, we're good at that.

We know how to do that.

And that's a very important life skill when it comes to feeling your best, having

great energy, um, and, and feeling healthy and, and knowing that you're healthy.

But with goal setting, you also, like with my students, you need to start

small and make your, your habits and goals almost ridiculously easy.

Yes.

So that you can be successful.

And then on that success, like stack more habits.

I'm sure you've read Atomic Habits by James Clear and Yeah, I've like

listened to it like multiple times.

Atomic Habits, tiny Habits.

I love both of those books.

I think I Habits, oh, I haven't read Tiny Habits.

Habits a little bit better just because I adore BJ Fogg and he's just such

a lovely, he has a beautiful soul.

Um, oh, but same concept.

Okay, I'll read that one.

Absolutely.

Same concept.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

So then we'll, we'll put that in the show notes.

Yes.

All of our book recommendations.

I like to recommend books because then.

books are very affordable.

People can just like not spend a lot of money on it and get

it through bare, audible.

Yeah.

And then it's also like not me telling them what to do.

Yeah.

It's somebody else inspiration who's like, yeah, somebody

else who's like a clear expert.

Like James Clear is obviously an expert in habit formation, so learn from the best.

Right?

So read Atomic Habits and the way that he breaks it down there are a lot of like.

Game changing ideas in that book.

But some of the ones that really stuck with me are what we just mentioned,

which is make your habits tiny and something that you can do that you

can accomplish and be successful at.

Yes.

Even on your worst day, worst your motivation day on your worst day where

everything went down the crapper at work and you go on a flat tire and

all everything went wrong, right?

Yeah, yeah.

But you can still do your like minimum amount, 10 minutes

of walking on the treadmill.

Yeah.

Like something that is just like so easy that you won't skip it.

Right.

Because it's all about the streak.

And so another thing that he leverages is streak trackers.

I love streak trackers.

I use them often as when I feel like I need a reset.

You know, when I'm like, Ooh, we just had a lot of family birthdays and I

feel like I had more like sugar type, treat foods than I normally would.

And I feel like I kind of want to like.

Do a mini, like, you could call it a detox.

I don't know if that's like a bad word to use, but a little mini break right.

From something.

Sure.

Yeah.

Um, and you, you can just be like, all right, let's do a 30 day street tracker.

Yeah.

Habit.

Yeah.

Of just like no sugar, you know, or whatever it is.

Maybe it's a 30 days of making, you know, whatever your clients

and students resonates with them.

Maybe it's 30 days of having a big salad every day, you know, or 30 days

of walking for 10 minutes every day.

And never, and never missing that.

So James Clear, he's awesome.

Street trackers, tiny habits.

And the third thing that I'll say about his book that's also very

powerful for me, is making your habits part of your identity.

Yes.

Like part of who you are.

So then that's like the mind shift, the mindset shift that.

In the long run will make it almost effortless to do what you wanna

do, because instead of being that person that's like, Ugh, I have to

work out like three days a week.

If I don't Yeah.

Some bad thing's gonna happen.

And it's sort of this like, it, it's conflicting with who you are.

You're never gonna be able to stick to that.

Right.

But if you can move into that head space that's like, oh, I'm just the type of

person that I'm always gonna, I'm pretty much always gonna hit three strength

workouts a week, and then on my off days, make sure I'm hitting X number

of steps on, you know, or whatever.

Like, whatever that looks like to you.

I'm the type of person who's always going to prioritize like some nice

good veggies and protein in my meal.

And that's gonna be the, the main event of, of my meals, right?

Yeah.

Yep.

And then you're not constantly like fighting against yourself, you're

just like, oh no, that's just who I'm.

And then like, it's effortless.

It's, it's amazing.

So, yeah.

And you know, this, this could be an entirely

different, and I've touched on this in a lot of other podcast episodes.

I talk about this constantly in my, with my coaching clients,

with my coaching groups.

This concept of really starting to shift your inner dialogue and your

speech instead of constantly saying, I hate exercise, I hate working out.

Stop saying it because the more you say it, the more it reinforces in every cell

of your body that this is a miserable thing in your punishing yourself.

Like, why would that, why would you be motivated to change that?

Mm-hmm.

You're not going to be, you're gonna dread it.

It's gonna feel.

You know, like a punishment, it's gonna be something negative.

You're never gonna create that positive feedback loop in your brain.

Yeah.

Which we're creating when we have those small wins that we're celebrating.

Yeah.

Yeah.

You worked with me on that back in 2014.

You were like, for me, you coined the term body hatred.

Mm-hmm.

Which I had never heard before, but you very much nailed it.

Like, that was something that I had, um, you know, in, in my life.

And you were like, no, we we're gonna flip the script on this and you're gonna,

you're gonna like do some journaling and you're gonna like not say these negative

things to yourself and you're just.

There's a little bit of, like, in the beginning, it's hard.

There's a little bit of forcing yourself.

Yeah.

A little bit of fake it till you make it kind to flip the script.

Mm-hmm.

But the, yeah, fake it till you make it, because in the long run it works

and then you can just be like, oh no.

Like I, I don't like hate anything about my body anymore.

Like I can be okay with it or even happy with it on, you know,

certain depending on the day, so.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And happy with what it's achieving for me.

Yes.

Happy with what it's allowing me to do.

Yeah.

Happy that, hey, look, it's getting stronger.

I can lift this heavy stuff and I couldn't lift that a few weeks ago, or, yeah.

Again, it just brings it back to that kind of shift of how

are we measuring our progress?

You know, how are we measuring what we want to

achieve?

And what we wanna be able to do.

Exactly.

Like I totally, you know, like there are the wins in the gym, which are

really, um, important to recognize.

But, and then there are the wins outside of the gym, which are maybe a little bit

more important because I would say 90.

Mm-hmm.

99% of people are not like Yeah.

Uh, trying to like deadlift 500 pounds.

I mean, I know, I know a lot of people who do wanna do that because I'm in the strike

work world, but you know what I mean?

Most, most people are just like, no, I just wanna feel good and

I wanna be able to go on a hike.

When I wanna go on a hike.

I wanna be able to go paddle boarding and carry the paddleboard.

Yeah.

Like Cho and I were in Vietnam in December and we, on one of the

day, we do all sorts of like, we love like going on big adventures.

And one of the days we did, um, an 80 kilometer bike ride, so

it's like a 50 mile bike ride.

Wow.

And it was so much fun.

We had the best day ever.

We don't even own bikes, we do not own bikes or an indoor bike,

but we're like, you know what?

We trained for this.

We train, we train, like we're consistent with our kettlebells, we're consistent

with like some, you know, a bit of like cardio slash at least, was like zone two

cardio or whatever you wanna call it.

so that we could literally show up in Vietnam, be like, we don't even

own bikes crushed in 80 kilometer bike ride in like crazy headwinds

and like had an amazing time.

Yeah.

And I want more people to experience that and I, and I get upset when

people my age and your age they don't think it's even possible.

And I'm like, it's possible now in your forties and it's possible

for another multiple decades.

Right.

If, if you.

Do this kind of minimum effective dose of taking care of yourself from

a movement and nutrition standpoint?

Minimum effective dose.

I love that statement because I think that we're in such an all or nothing

society and we tend to think, okay, I, you know, because it hurt, go hard

or go home, and all these things like, and I think that's really detrimental

because I think that people feel like, well, if I can't get a full hour

workout in, why would I do anything?

Or if I, it's not enough, like it's pointless.

Or if you know I can't do X, Y, or Z, they don't understand like the

starting small is so powerful and it's actually easier to stay consistent.

So you're actually more likely to increase your fitness level, improve

your eating habits, whatever it is.

When you are taking those little steps and just doing it more consistently

versus trying to do the go hard, go home, I'm gonna start working out on January

1st, five days a week in the gym for an hour, like, No, that's, it's nuts.

You're not gonna do it.

Yeah.

And I think you bring up something that's really important too, which

to me is the concept of, of freedom.

Yes.

Because I think a lot of people, I hear women especially so often say, I wish

I could just eat whatever I wanted.

And what they mean is like, I wish I could just eat everyone all the

time and have zero consequences.

Well, you know, sure.

But that's just not reality.

Like you can't just Yeah.

Go, you know, live on junk food and expect your body to perform well.

You can't put, diesel into a gasoline car and expect it to run properly.

we, that's an interesting comment.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And instead of thinking of that as the type of freedom that you

would love to have, which isn't a thing, it's not a possibility.

Your body, it doesn't work like that.

This is not the world No.

Where the physical body we live in.

To me, freedom is what you're talking about.

I can go and take a trip.

I can do these things spontaneously, activities, adventures, experiences

where I'm free to experience life on these amazing, deep, meaningful

yes levels without restriction.

Yes, without having to feel like crap or work through pain injuries.

Feel like I'm missing out on fun things that people around

me can do that I can't do.

Your grandkids, your kids, maybe they're able to go for a hike

or do something and you can't.

That is not freedom.

To me, that is far more restrictive than saying no to.

Some processed carbohydrate food.

Right, exactly.

Exactly.

You skipping

whatever, your 10 minute walk that day like, and I think that if

we can think of it on those terms, it, it just, again, it's a little bit of a,

a mindset shift to go, wait a minute, what is, what does health mean to me?

Like, what

does freedom mean?

That's a really interesting thing that, that I, I, I do a lot, obviously

a lot more like kettlebell type coaching than nutrition coaching.

I do do a little bit of like, I'm, you know, compared to you, I'm like

kindergarten level nutrition coach.

Well,

I'm way with fitness,

so, um, but you know, I, I do have like the

Precision Nutrition certification.

I've worked with a few people, but, um, that's interesting because that

they say, I wish I could just eat whatever I, I wanted and not like,

you know, have the bad consequences.

And I think a lot of the stuff that I learned from you, is, training

your body and your taste buds mm-hmm.

To enjoy whole unprocessed foods.

Yes.

And understanding that the big food companies create hyper palatable foods

that are, that are addictive, right?

Yes.

They're, they are straight up addictive.

Like there's a reason why and designed to be so.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And so, like, it may not be the most popular opinion, but it's almost

like more people need to understand that all of these hyper palat have

palatable hyper processed foods.

Addictive foods are Like, it's okay to, to abstain from them.

Mm-hmm.

For the, for the most part.

And in, and once you start doing that, you start to like taste more from like

whole unprocessed foods and also learning to cook like you, I mean, I already

knew how to cook, but you, you like took me to a whole nother level, right?

You're like, oh, here's how to cook with spices.

Here's how to cook, use citrus for flavor.

Here's how to use herbs.

Right?

Like, here's how to use these healthy fats and oils that are unprocessed, right?

So that now you have all these tools in your toolbox to be like, oh

yeah, like Vietnamese chicken curry.

Like bring it on.

Like I know how to make it.

And it's like, it's delicious, right?

And so I feel like that was like a little bit all over the place, but

kind of to land the plane like that.

Needs to be a mindset shift where it's like, no, like pizza and potato

chips are and cookies, yes, they're delicious and you can enjoy them

like in moderation, but learn to make the delicious whole foods Exactly.

And enjoy them and, and understand how delicious, like a veggie

scramble with goat cheese can be.

Like, you don't need all these like breads and things to go with it.

So I think it's, um, people can be very close-minded about what tastes

good and what, you know, and they have this idea that like, healthy

food has to be, is like gross.

And I'm like, no.

Right.

Yeah.

It's, it's good.

You just have to know how to make it and you just have to also like not

eat the hyper palatable stuff much.

Yeah.

Because that gives your taste buds a chance to, to, to love

all the like whole stuff.

So yeah, it kind of recalibrate.

Oh, it's so true.

Yeah.

It's so true.

I mean, That's one thing that people always comment on in, in my 21 day reboot

program is that, you know, initially nothing tasted really sweet enough 'cause

they were used to really sweet foods.

But then after, it's not usually a long time, it's a few days, a couple

weeks, maybe a week at the most, where they start to go, oh wow.

Like, I can't believe how much more, how much sweeter fruit tastes

or, a real tomato from my garden.

Like it's so much more flavor, like they start to really taste the food.

It sort of recalibrates everything with your, your taste and also, you

know, just circling back quickly.

'cause this is another big topic, you know, obviously there are

accessibility issues with nutritious food in this country and it's

expensive, unfortunately now to eat real food that's grown properly.

so not everybody has ideal access to that, but for those of us that do, Once we start

shifting away from these hyper palatable foods, you're making an environmental and

political statement by stepping away from those things and saying, no, I'm sorry.

This is not, it's not real food.

This is not appropriate.

These things are actually poisoning us and they're poisoning the planet.

It's, you know, so there are multiple levels there that we

should be paying attention to.

Yeah.

And, and looking at,

as Dr.

Mark Hyman says, your body doesn't know the difference between a

bagel and a Coke below the neck.

Exactly.

And a lot of people don't believe, they wouldn't believe that.

And it's like, oh no, like a bagel and a coke below the neck is the

same thing in your gut and in your body and your sugar is San Es.

You stay away from that stuff like, or you know, in very moderate

amounts, like extreme moderation.

So

yeah, and again, when we're looking to fulfill our lives and

all these other aspects, this, you know, community and connecting with nature and,

you know, nourishing ourselves properly, like all of these things can help.

Create healthy neurotransmitter production so that we're not so

desperately needing that dopamine hit that those addictive foods are giving us.

Yeah, yeah.

You don't need the like, like the caffeine spike and then the sugar

spike, and then like the alcohol like to bring you down and then like the

more sugar and then, you know, like people are just like using these

substances as a crutch to just survive their super, extremely stressful life.

I get it.

Yeah.

And it's like get, it's, you're gonna feel less stressed and less tired

if you're not constantly using sugar and caffeine to like bring you up

and then alcohol to bring you down.

And then you're on this constant roller coaster and it's like, no,

like your body is, it's taking, it's taking a hard toll on your body.

Yeah, for sure.

For sure.

So tell us Katt, 'cause I wanna be respectful of your time.

Sorry.

What would you say, I know we, you and I could talk for hours about this, but.

How do you stay really consistent with your fitness and nutrition?

Like what are your biggest motivators, especially at the

times where you're like, Ugh.

Because I'm guessing you, like any other, one of us have days where human,

I don't wanna, I don't feel like it.

Oh gosh.

I know.

And over the years, I mean, you've been consistent with this for years and I

think that that's really inspirational.

And, and for some people feels like, oh my gosh, could I ever, you know, it's hard

for me to stick to something for a month, let alone years or the rest of my life.

Yeah.

going back to James Clear and Atomic Habits, the book, I Do Truly, or I

have truly made my habits, my identity.

Mm-hmm.

so what does that look like on the day-to-day?

That means that, um, You know, if I'm like on a girl's weekend with some of my

girlfriends and they're all like, having like drinks or, you know, like sharing

like dessert or something, um, I'm totally okay with being like, no, I'm good.

Like, it's okay.

I don't drink.

You know, like, and I'm not saying like, you have to do what I do,

that's just what works for me.

Right.

but I think it's sort of like, having your, your habits be part

of your identity and not really caring what other people think.

Yeah.

To yourself.

What works for you.

Yeah.

Yeah, exactly.

So I think, um, yeah, understanding that idea of identity based habits or always,

trying to fit in, even if it's only like a 30 minute, quick workout, like knowing

that I, it's important for me to not skip a day even if it's just 30 minutes of

walking or something, making sure that I'm like, okay, no, I didn't skip right.

I didn't completely, skip something.

So that would be part of it.

Identity-based habits, we're all human and we all do have days where we,

um, fall off the bandwagon, right?

Whether it's like, overindulging in a food that is like a, low

nutrient, caloric, dense food, right?

We have our spectrum of like nutrient dense, not nutrient dense, calorie

dense, not calorie dense, right?

So overindulging on a, a calorie dense and not nutrient dense food and feeling

like, Ooh, I, I overdid it, right?

we all do it.

Like it, it happens.

I, it happens from time to time and it's all about just like making

that next, the good choice, right?

And just getting like what you could call like right back on the bandwagon.

Mm-hmm.

And just like what you taught me back in the day is just

like don't beat yourself up.

Right?

guilt plays no purpose in this, right?

Like, you don't need to feel guilty, and that's what you taught me.

but you just are like, you know what, just pretend you're on a little,

like Google Maps, g p s, and when you take a wrong turn, it's not like the

G p s is like, you're a bad person.

Like you're wrong going, you're stupid.

Yeah.

It's like, it's like, no, you just, it's a gentle U-turn.

Yeah.

Right?

You're like, okay, you made a wrong turn.

Make a gentle U-turn.

Yep.

No judgment.

Just get back on the path that you originally wanted to be on.

So I think that's an important skill to build.

so I use that and then I also have like a, a little like daily to-do

list, which is totally normal, right?

Like maybe you use like an app.

I just use like the notepad in my phone and I'll write down like the main

things I wanna accomplish that day.

And I always include, I.

Out and stretch.

Hmm.

Just so I can check them off at the end of the day.

Absolutely.

Which

feels so good, right?

Yeah.

Yeah.

I write them down sometimes after I've done 'em, so I can check it off.

Oh, yeah.

Oh, no, that's super satisfying.

Yeah.

I do that too.

so even if that day's workout is just a half an hour walk, you know,

like, that's better than nothing.

Right.

But at least I did it and I can be like, check it off.

Right?

And then like, stretch.

So I don't always like, skip my mobility work.

I'm gonna check it off.

And then it's kind of as simple as that.

And again, I'm not perfect, but I will say that, that little visual reminder mm-hmm.

Where it's like, oh, like write this YouTube description,

get back to this email.

Sure.

Work out, stretch, like they're in the list and you're seeing that as

you're checking your to-do list.

And I, I actually do that every day, so it helps.

Yeah.

That helps me too.

I, I, I love to have something visually that I'm like, oh, okay,

this is what's on the agenda.

Yeah.

And for me too, I have realized I have a D H D and I've realized that for

me, working out helps me function.

Like it makes my brain work so much

better.

Mm-hmm.

And the movement.

Yeah.

Oh man.

It really is a game changer for helping me just focus and have

more sustained energy throughout the day.

My mood is so much better.

it's so good for your brain.

Oh yeah.

So like

in a way I'm lucky that way because it's kind of a non option.

Like I, it is not an option for me to not do it because otherwise

I'm not as functional that day.

Yeah.

And I do have rest days that I take for sure.

But if it's actually scheduled on my calendar, it's something I can check off.

It's like, it, it feels.

Really gratifying and that gratification, again, it's that, you know, celebrating

those small wins, like acknowledging little small steps throughout the day

that's gonna kind of train your brain to be like, yeah, let's do it again.

Let's do it again.

Yeah.

Versus like, dreading

it.

So yeah, always, always consistency over intensity.

That's what also what we say, love the kettlebell in the,

kind of in the fitness world.

Great.

I love that.

Consistency trumps intensity.

Amen.

Yep.

That's the quote, quote of the day.

Oh.

So finally, Kat, like what tips do you have for our listeners who do

struggle with consistency or motivation?

You know, maybe they're caregivers, maybe they've got a bunch of kids at

home and it is, you know, either hard for them to prioritize that time for

themselves or, um, you know, I have some clients who start work really early.

Yeah.

And it's hard for them to get a workout in first, and then by the

end of the day they're like, Ugh.

I'm just, I'm just toast.

what tips do you have for those of us who, you know, Consistency and motivation

has maybe not been a thing up until now.

Yeah.

we don't talk about motivation as much because I think

there's a, a misconception a lot of people think that, that they need,

they need to feel motivated mm-hmm.

In order to complete their workout.

And that's, that's not the case.

Uh, unfortunately, motivation is fleeting.

Yes.

Uh, so you do have to lean on other things like, uh, discipline and, you

know, like some less sexy things.

Um, so I wouldn't expect to always feel motivated.

There are gonna be some days where you're gonna be like, yeah, I'm like

motivated to crush this workout.

But it's, I would say that's the minority, not the majority of the time.

Yes.

And I would agree with that.

And everybody that's coming from two women who like fitness is part of our job.

Like, Kat, it's really your job.

Yeah, yeah.

For me.

Yeah.

But that's, yeah, we do not feel motivated.

Every day and go, we, I'm so excited

to start my workout.

Yeah.

No, no, no.

I think, um, I think it comes back to, we've already covered

tiny habits and atomic habits and making it really small Yeah.

Doable.

So that you can do it even on your worst day.

and kind of what we call this, I, I stole this from a gym over in

Massachusetts called Skill of Strength.

They're really cool and one of the things that they, talk about is your bam,

which stands for your bare ass minimum.

I love that.

So do, and what you do is you define your bam.

Right?

So if you're like, okay, if I, let's say in a perfect world, Today,

Wednesday, I'm gonna do a 45 minute strength and conditioning session

and with stretching afterwards.

Right.

That's like the perfect scenario, but whatever.

Like you had to pick up the kids from school, and the school got

out late and the time everything hit, the fan like got messed up.

Right?

Everything hit the fan.

so instead of skipping it, define your bam, your bare ass minimum.

And you, you make it happen no matter what.

And it has to be easy enough Yeah.

To do.

So if that's literally like, I'm gonna go do five minutes of, yoga

type stretching and breathing, great.

That's what it is.

It's only five minutes, right?

Mm-hmm.

You could do that before bed at like 10 o'clock at night.

So make it something that like you can do no matter what, so

that then you're never skipping.

Yeah.

And then the next day you're like, Hey, I, the next day I.

Great.

I got my 45 minutes in.

Awesome.

Right.

But I would say like not breaking the streak and having that bam, that bare ass

minimum is a very powerful tool to build momentum and feel successful and then be

able to like over time, like the longer that streak is, the better you get at it.

Yeah.

Right.

And you, the better you get at consistency.

So then maybe like a month later you're like, okay, I've kind of mastered this.

Bam.

Maybe I can add another little piece to it now.

Yeah.

'cause I'm getting better at being consistent.

Yeah.

And

all along the way, it's reinforcing that identity.

If I'm someone who does X every

day mm-hmm.

I have someone who doesn't skip it.

Yeah.

I'm

someone who no matter what, like yeah, I move my body every day.

Yeah.

I love.

So that's probably

what it would be for me.

Awesome.

I love that.

Well, In conclusion, why don't you tell everybody where they can

find you and, you know, anything that you've got going on right now

that you wanna share with people?

Yeah.

well, you can find, me and my husband Cho at our website, which is kat and cho.com.

And actually you have to, I'll spell it out for you 'cause both of

our names have multiple spellings.

So it's C A T a n d C h a u.com.

that's our website.

you can email us, you can find us on Instagram.

our.

Shared handle is at Cat and Cho.

but I'm also Cat Buck Lee, c a t b u c k l e, on Instagram.

So you can find us there.

And yeah, just reach out anytime, whether it's, um, you know,

just like a kettlebell question.

If you wanna learn from me one-on-one, if you wanna know when I'm teaching my

next workshop, in the Pacific Northwest.

Um, if you wanna find out more about.

Kettlebell certifications, um, you know, train online with me or even

just, I have a kettlebell 1 0 1 course.

Um, an online course that we really put a lot of thought into Breaking

it down for total beginners.

Awesome.

Like totally new, um, to kettlebells.

So, that is, you can find that, on our website as well, cat

and show.com or Cat Show tv.

So, that's a cool one.

It's, it's super affordable for people who are like, you know what?

I wanna learn kettlebells and learn, the, the basic movements.

but I'm not quite ready to invest in a coach yet.

investing in a coach is always a good idea, but you know, I understand.

Sure.