Simon Clarkson is the Founder and Consultant CMO at Purposecraft where he helps companies develop and implement a clear, evidence-based strategic purpose, while empowering functions to be catalysts for change and creators of customer value.

In today’s episode, we go deep to understand what do we mean with Purpose. Its impact on company success, the governance to measure it - and how he’s successfully done this with a 9000 people organization! We explore the role of Purpose in FinTech and discuss a framework you can use to define a clear evidence-based strategic purpose to differentiate your Product and FinTech.

We discuss how Purpose and Strategy are two sides of the same coin and how strategic purpose development is the highest level of strategy, which involves defining the value that a company brings to the world and drives its strategic direction.

👉 You can find Simon here

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/simonclarkson/
• LinkedIn Purposecraft: https://www.linkedin.com/company/purposecraft-ltd/
• Website: https://purposecraft.co.uk/

👉 And you can find Monica here:

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/monicamillares/
• TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@moni_millares
• YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@moni_millares
• Website: https://moni-millares.mystrikingly.com/

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🗞️ Newsletter: Innovating FinTech - Available on LinkedIn

In this Purpose Driven FinTech episode we cover:

(02:05) The Why of Purposecraft - a story about their journey and how they got into existence

(06:26) Purposecraft’s purpose and problem statement they are solving

(10:07) Definition of purpose in the context of an organization

(11:34) The relationship between having a clear purpose and having impact in society

(16:03) The role of the CEO, Clevels and Board when creating a company purpose

(16:54) The impact of leading with the heart

(19:27) How Simon brought a 9000 people organization on board setting up a new company purpose

(23:03) How to measure purpose and success

(25:23) Fintech and purpose

(30:38) How our capabilities and identity place us in a unique way to help customers with financial well being in a way that it's different than everybody else

(35:50) Questions can we ask ourselves to set a strategic purpose

(40:53) Where to find out more about Simon and Purposecraft

(41:15) Closing question: If you could change one thing, just one thing in Fintech, to make fintech better and have positive impact to customers, staff and investors, what could it be?

SEARCH QUESTIONS

• What is strategic purpose in FinTech?
• How to develop company purpose for FinTech startups?
• How to differentiate your FinTech product with purpose?
• What are the three ingredients of strategic purpose?
• How to measure company purpose effectively?
• How to marry purpose and strategy in FinTech?
• How to create purpose with 9000 employees?
• What is the difference between mission and purpose?
• How to engage stakeholders in purpose development?
• How to track purpose through OKRs?
• Why is FinTech an inherently purposeful industry?
• How to avoid generic purpose statements?
• How to ensure purpose drives strategic direction?
• What is the role of customer needs in purpose?
• How to create evidence-based strategic purpose?
• How to develop purpose for asset management companies?
• How to overcome skepticism when developing purpose?
• How to ensure purpose isn't ignored after development?
• What is the relationship between purpose and company growth?
• How to make purpose relevant beyond product lifecycles?

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Production and marketing by Monica Millares. For inquiries about supporting or sponsoring the podcast, collabs or guest appearances email Monica at fintechwithmoni@gmail.com

Disclaimer: This episode does not constitute professional nor financial advice and does not represent the opinion nor views of my current, past or future employers; nor those of the guests. The guest has agreed to record and release our conversation for the use of this podcast and promotion in social media.

Simon Clarkson show. Hello, Mon. It's lovely to be here. Thank you for having me.

Monica Millares Thank you. And it's my honor to have you here because this is the very first episode of the new podcast. And given that we're talking about purpose-driven FinTech like we had as a very first episode to kind of like deep dive, not even FinTech, But in purpose, like what's purpose and what does that mean?

So I thought you were the perfect person to talk about it, so it's my pleasure to

Simon Clarkson have you here. Likewise. Thank you, Mon.

Monica Millares Thank you. So let's start with why did you start Purpose Craft? Like, can you tell us a little bit about your journey and how did you

Simon Clarkson get there? Absolutely. Well, it's a, it's an interesting story.

And I founded Purpose Craft to enable all companies to achieve that kind of strategic clarity to sustain their growth and resilience. To help them to develop and implement a clear strategic purpose.

Monica Millares That is, there's a lot in that answer. Like that is deep because like Yeah, it's like the first thing that I thought, I was like, oh yeah, like to be on the, you know, on the right path and it's sometimes you don't have to achieve so and so, the so-called success, you are not there yet, but.

Simon Clarkson Well, I mean that's, I think that's that's, that's the big. Question. People have very different relationships to purpose in their personal lives and in and in the business world. But I think the, you know, the evidence shows that the most successful companies are the ones that manage to marry purpose and strategy.

Exactly. And the simple, the simple way of demystifying that is to think of purposes unique to your company rather than a general cause. Mm-hmm. Every comp, every company has the opportunity to be the most valuable form of itself. Just as we as individuals have the opportunity to be the most valuable form of ourselves.

And and either, either or deliberate about that or you not. So you can think of strategic purpose development as being the highest level of strategy of the company defines the value that the company brings to the world and it drives its strategic direction. It should determine its mission and strategic objectives.

But those that do and those that put that purpose driven strategy to the heart of their organizations, they overperform on productivity and growth and employee engagement and so on and so forth. And they're more adaptable to change and they find it easier to transform and innovate. Why? Why is that To do with clarity?

So the studies show that When the company has identified a crystal clear idea of the value that it brings to the world and that's real and based on its history and capabilities, there's two things about that. The first is employees and stakeholders actually believe it because it shows them that they're working for a special company and most people want to feel that.

A two to threefold level of productivity compared to normal, just good companies. Wow. And secondly, because people are clear about that, that idea of the value the company brings to the world, not just to the, to the category or the industry that it's operates in. And because that's, that's articulated in sufficient detail for people to understand what that means for the mission, strategic objectives, and the value.

Monica Millares So what then could be the, I guess like the purpose of your company, the purpose of purpose craft, and which problem are you solving out of all these big puzzles?

Can you imagine? How that helps employee clarity and productivity. So yes, that's a cri, there's a critical problem because we need companies to be resilient and successful, but, but when companies don't have a purpose, it's often because, well, sometimes they can be very purposeful, but they're married [00:06:00] to a wider industry clause.

He could say that that's somewhat the case in FinTech. There's a, there's a, there's a, there's a movement mm-hmm. Towards improvement of financial inclusion and accessibility and transparency and trust. Yeah. But companies themselves may lack a certain, may in some cases lack a certain clarity as to what makes them special and what, what special, particular role they're playing.

Other companies don't care about purpose at all in the sense that we might be talking about they, they focus on a product, and the problem with products is they run out of life, as you know, as a product specialist, you know, products have a life cycle and the company needs to know what comes next. Yes.

And how that's gonna be continuous with the value creation of the company. So it's gonna build up its reputation and capabilities and experience curve such that it continues to accrue value that compounds itself. And that's what purpose does. When they don't have that, companies tend to run outta steam after the product life cycle.

And all those positive opportunities that companies offer they're threatened, they evaporate. So meanwhile, research shows that companies with a clear strategic purpose consistently outperform their peers in growth, productivity, innovation, transformation. But it's not easy to do, especially when a company becomes more, more mature because an an organization that has many employees and many stakeholders and, and diverse, a diverse set of leaders, different viewpoints, it can be hard to go through that exercise of excavating your purpose.

We we're dedicated to doing this. We specialize in helping companies to develop and implement a clear evidence-based strategic purpose that powers growth and transformation and and enables them to focus on. The impact that they're best able to make. And the reason I mention evidence based just there, in case you're wondering, it's because there is a track record of, of work in this space.

But it's done in the name of purpose and it's, it's often not done with any substance, you know, so most, most purpose initiatives don't stick, don't work. Because in spite of. The importance of the company having a clear strategic purpose. Focus is given instead to purposes that are more like a campaign or an employee morale boost, but that are, that are treated more like a creative exercise than no genuine excavation of the opportunity for the company based on what it deserve, deserve deserves to achieve.

Monica Millares Yes, probably it's the first time that I use the word that, that I hear the word evidence within the definition of a crafting a purpose strategy. Yeah. Cool. Yes. So, yeah. So if we step back a little bit, what's your definition of purpose?

In the context of an organization.

Simon Clarkson So company purpose refers to, refers to the value that a company, a specific company brings to the world. So we, so I'll, I'll, you know, we we're talking about company purpose, not personal purpose. So, so I'll mm-hmm. I'll, I'll focus my definition on that and we can relate that to personal purpose in the sense that, you know, a company is just a bunch of people at the end of the day trying to find a way forward.

So it's a novel kind of value. There's usually an insight behind it. And that that. Determination to bring that value to solve a problem or to add something that was missing beyond the industry. This is an important qualification of the purpose that, that sense of value and the belief that the company has the.

The optimum capabilities and profile to fulfill that value that drives its strategic direction and contributes to its sustain, sustained growth and resilience and profitability. So well-defined and implemented purposes. The foundation for its growth and boosting customer value and increasing employee productivity.

Oh, cool. And transformation.

Simon Clarkson as well.

Well, that's why I'm so glad you asked me to, to, to, to speak in, in, in your podcast because it, it's. Purpose craft cause is to enable people to develop the best companies. And, and the best companies are gonna have the clearest strategic purposes. And, and it is, it is ultimately about making an impact in the world.

And, but our job, first of all is to help people understand the subject better. And one of the biggest areas of confusion is between just the simple idea of purpose and impact. And this is easy to pull apart again, actually, if we think that if the company's purpose is clear. Then it can have impact. So, so impact and purpose are absolutely related because a company's purpose is the driving force behind the impact that it has.

So purpose, divide purpose defines the unique value that the company should be bringing to the world, and that drives its strategic direction. And the impact is the measurement of the, of the effects.

Simon Clarkson Yeah. And I guess the reason, and you, you give me your view, the reason that people get these two things confused is because they, they have ideas of the impact and they start with the idea of the impact and think that that should be applied to companies. And then, and you know that, that's understandable.

Because things, you know, impact, purpose wouldn't be worthwhile if there weren't problems to solve. Right. But to be, you know, to be clear, purpose and impact are interrelated, but one drives the other. Mm-hmm.

Monica Millares Yeah. I like that relationship. Exactly. It's not the same thing. Definitely not. But they are super interrelated.

Simon Clarkson And what makes the other worthwhile as well? Are there any.

Monica Millares Oh, what do

You wouldn't create a pump. Every company exists for a reason in other Right. That, that reason may just be to make a profit from selling widgets. T-shirts. T-shirts. Yeah. That would be a, a, a, a slightly myopic idea of purpose, but the company does have a purpose. Is it making an impact? No. Is, and at the same time, is that purpose strategic.

Possibly not because it doesn't extend beyond the t-shirts or the widgets, which have a finite life attract competitors and will eventually run out of mm-hmm. Head room for growth. So impact. Impact is what makes a purpose worthwhile. And it also makes it strategic because you're relating that company to an enduring need that goes longer than the product life cycle.

Simon Clarkson Well, I think the only dark, the only dark sides are to doing it cynically or wrong. You know, there are many instances of companies that embark on so-called purpose initiatives and really what they're doing consciously or not is developing a vehicle off to the side of the company that's in the name of purpose.

And these comp, these are the companies that may. Encounter backlash. So they may, if they, if they do this publicly, they may be accused of greenwashing for instance, or they may frustrate their employees by involving them in a purpose development initiative, only to find only for the employees to find that actually that purpose or so-called purpose has nothing at all to do with how the company actually competes.

And it, you know, it, it, it can only really over ever provide benefits of. Clarity of a pathway towards greater value. So no, there are no inherent, no inherent drawbacks, but it is important that the way that you approach purpose development and implementation is with a thoughtful and strategic mindset.

And that yes, in doing that the, the whole organization Is reflected in that, and that means that they practically need to be involved as well. So the, so a top-down answer rarely works. And, and so there are safeguards to doing it well. Even, even companies with the best intentions can, can set about doing this and then, and then find that they've shot the shot results on the foot by coming up with a great answer that nobody recognizes.

Simon Clarkson Hmm. Great question. So, so I, so I I would say that the ownership of the purpose rests with the ceo. Mm-hmm. And you can always spot the companies where that's not the case, because the, the, the challenge of developing a so-called purpose has been devolved to somebody else in the organization. They may be in charge of people in charge of.

Human resources, sustainability. There may even be a chief purpose officer or a chief marketing officer. The minute it, the minute it leaves the desk of the ceo if it's not driven from the heart of the chief executive, it doesn't govern the way the company operates. So it has to, it has to. Dublin?

And then, and why

Simon Clarkson is that, do you think, rather than just.

Why

Monica Millares is that? Probably it's because, yeah, because, well, I guess it's given that it's coming from the heart, it is authentic. It's real. Exactly. It's like the ceo, you can trust it. He believes in it. Yeah. You trust in it. Rather there's, oh, this was an

Simon Clarkson exercise.

Yes. She is not gonna refer to Wave.

Monica Millares No, exactly. It's like he or she stands behind it and believes in it, and that's why we're doing this. Versus, oh, we got into a room and then we created the purpose of the company in a afternoon without really believing in it. So, exactly. It does

Simon Clarkson make a difference.

If we think of the purpose development of a company as being an initiative rather than a thing then the CEO needs to own the initiative in terms of. Why the executive team is embarking on that journey? Why they're asking the company to go through it, what they will do with the answer. But part of developing the purpose is to involve everybody in it because the purpose isn't the purpose of the organization unless everybody recognizes it.

And so you can take this one of two ways. You can, you can approach it one of two ways. You can either develop it right up here at the top and then attempt to cascade it. And you ask yourself how many times you've seen that happen in companies where an idea has come from somewhere up there and then it's hit you and you think, well, I have to spend some time thinking about that, and either I'll get it or I won't.

And then when you get to the end, there's no cascading to be done. You're into, you're into, how do we take it to the next step. Everybody owns it. Yeah. And when you sh when you, when you show them the answer at the end, they're like, yeah, you've heard us. That's the answer. That makes sense. We were expecting that and that clear, that clarifies everything.

Yeah. And

Monica Millares it sounds very easy, but in reality, in reality it's not. Especially if like in a company like you did, like with 9,000 people. Like, how do you bring 9,000 people on board? If I struggle with like 10 people in the team, like how did you do it with like 9,000 people?

Yes. Yes. And it's, it's, it's a great question. It's a great question because, you know I, I think you can tell this, right? If you don't do it that way you can believe that. The answer is just gonna slide off. And so you really if you want to maximize the chances of this not being a wasted effort, you, you can, in my advice, you can only really approach it that way and, and hopefully you'll be successful.

But the thing is, when you tell people that the company's gonna do something special, it's gonna try and elevate itself to try and find its best self. Go from good to great. Mm-hmm. And have a clear focus. As long as you are sincere about the the way that you'll approach that and you, and you abide by the the principles of the approach that you set out.

And also jaded from years of acquisitions. And, and so it couldn't have been coming from a more difficult position. People that mm-hmm. Really didn't want to be in the same room as each other, let alone the same company. But in the end, we didn't lose anybody through that process. And and that was because ultimately they concluded rationally that this was gonna take the company to a position where there was a greater opportunity than what they have at the moment, a greater opportunity than the sum of the parts of their individual.

So there's a movement towards finding the answer and immediately you're starting to be more purpose driven just by thinking about the right questions.

Monica Millares Mm. So the transformation starts Oh, sound went even in the process of thinking Yes. As long as you make it with the whole organization and not just with five people in the room

Simon Clarkson at the top.

Yes. That's, that's where, that's where I think that's where extreme danger lies, where you, where you invest time behind closed doors. The one thing the leadership team must do, And they, they're limited to do this behind closed doors to decide that the initiative needs to happen. And the board as a whole, in a larger company that has, you know, a sophisticated board would rightly ask the question of the executive team and other ceo, is our purpose suitable in, have we, have we since checked our purpose?

How will we approach it? What are the outputs going to be? What will we do with the outputs? That's their job. That's their job. Yeah. But the, but, but the approach to delivering that initiative must be to include the whole organization. In, you know, at some level to, to the, the, the critical success factor is that nobody feels that they were left behind the door when this happened.

Hmm.

Monica Millares Yeah. I love that. It's very inclusive and that's why it can be very powerful.

Simon Clarkson Yes. Yeah.

Monica Millares So you used, well you used many keyword words right now, but the one that stands out was like, how do we measure it? Mm-hmm. Like the board should be asking the CEO and the leadership team, yeah, we're going to do this.

Then it's like, how are we going to measure success?

Simon Clarkson So

So, mm-hmm. It's, but the question therefore is what influence does the purpose have over the act activities of the company? We should be measuring the the mission and the strategic objectives. The question is whether the purpose has elevated those to take stock of the impact on the various dimensions the company should be having.

Whether people feel they've had adequate involvement in its development whether they are clear on its outputs whether they feel engaged in its implementation. There are some initiative specific measures of embedding the purpose, but, but once that purpose has been communicated, established, adopted, actually tracking its effectiveness is more, is more to do with ensuring that the tracking of the company as a whole is comprehensive, you know, so, so.

What purpose would normally do is broaden out the scope of the strategic objectives so that they mirror every aspect of that purpose. You know, in commercial terms, customer terms, societal terms.

Monica Millares Awesome. You're, you're kind of like putting together a very nice framework. I'm looking forward to the end of the episode where basically I'll summarize everything and it's like, oh, cool.

This is like Simon's Simon's framework to purpose.

Simon Clarkson That would be nice.

Yes. What are your thoughts on FinTech and purpose?

Simon Clarkson Well, I mean, as I said earlier, I think FinTech is a. In, and you tell me, tell me if you agree because you work in that space, but you know, FinTech is an inherently purposeful space. Why? Yes. Well, I mean, I could, I could surmise, there's a couple of good reasons for that.

One, it's. Is, it is defined by a challenger mindset and entrepreneurs visionaries and people wanting to improve improve the world through the financial lens. Right? And, and the second reason that it's very purposeful, I use that word deliberately, purposeful, not necessarily All with clear strategic purposes, that may be the headroom for improvement.

Affordability, accessibility of financial services, transparency, sustainability. So I think it's, I think generally it's, it's a very rich space for purpose in terms of needs and in terms of mindset and culture. So applying purpose in FinTech I guess if we were to take that to the next level at a company specific level, it involves applying the core values and objectives of a company to drive an organization and ensure that they're aligned with specific needs.

And, and one of the, one of the, yeah. One of the challenges with being in a very purposeful environment where you share many of the same purposes is. That works at an industry level, but it may not produce the greatest clarity for individual companies. So, can you expand? Yeah. So, so when I, when I was working with the company that I mentioned, which is an asset manager, this, you know, I started interviewing senior investment folk about the purpose that they felt in their work.

And they said, well, we, we already have a purpose. You know, we're here to, we're here to help investors meet their future financial needs. And I said, oh, okay. And that's great. They said, they said, it's like a fiduciary purpose. And I said, well, well, that's dripping. I thought about that for a couple of minutes and I thought, oh, so you're, you're a bit like a physician you in who helps people meet their health needs, and, and they said, yes, that drives me.

But I said to him, why do you do this in this particular company? And that's a different question. Mm. What can this company do to move that situation along, along to a different level? With, with everything it has, it's disposable d disposal. So how, how do we, how do we look at that purpose through the lens of your particular company?

And in the end, I, yes, please.

Monica Millares No, go. I want to hear the end and in the

And that is competition. Hmm. Competition is what produces the best from companies. Competitive pressure. And that's what, that's what, that's what causes companies to iterate and innovate. Yes, it's the reason why product life cycles happen. It's the reason why value in any given context tends to wear out.

And, and so actually, and it's the thing that produces, it's the, the competition is the thing that causes companies to find separate ways of producing value, but it creates differentiation. So, If we are only if in a given community of businesses, if in a, in a given sector, in other words, we're all focused on an identical purpose or a homogenous purpose, then all we can expect is homogenous companies.

And they will and they will not deprecate from the fundamental areas of impact that the industry is needing to serve, but it will find a way of contributing in a very special way to that scene. I love that

Monica Millares because then if we put that in the context of FinTech, and I generalize that, it's like FinTech as an industry, our purpose is to help people with better financial wellbeing.

Like you, you could argue that every FinTech will say like, Hey, yeah, we help people with financial wellbeing, and everybody will say the same.

Simon Clarkson And they mean it too, right? They mean it. Yes. And we mean it. Yes. But does that tell anybody working for any one of those companies? This is why my company is special.

Yeah.

Places in a unique way to help customers with financial wellbeing in a way that it's different that nobody else is kind of approaching the problem in that way.

Simon Clarkson Yes, exactly. And it may be that you can, it may be that you see a particular opportunity to solve a particular. Aspect of the problem purpose should always, a purpose should always be rooted in a why, right?

So, so if it just, if your purpose only differs at the level of how you approach it, that may not inspire any differently. And in fact, when we think about really enduring purposes, they're the ones that are grounded in a, a need, not a solution or an approach. Yeah. But.

The, the, there are, it's far more than generic brushstrokes. You know, interoperability is a big theme that, that may not go, may not be very sexy, but actually that could unlock a, a, a heap of value. And when we see a lack of, in interoperability, we see consumers being disadvantaged. Disadvantaged. And you know, you're dealing with.

Is, is that a purpose for one company? I don't know. But, but there are a labyrinth of lots of different problems. And I guess, I guess one way to, one way to sort of frame or or to, to stimulate development of an individual company's purpose in FinTech would be to think, well, we can't do everything.

We need to have a steadfast approach to what we sell. And we need to be watching out for things, but where are we actually really going to try and make a difference? Be? Because you have to make choices and purpose actually is the highest level of strategy. And what did what, what did the I'm trying to think of the famous author that said the hardest thing about strategy is deciding what not to do.

Yes.

So, so where is exact, where, where is the exact focus for your company is the killer question for any, any company that wants to be truly purpose driven is, is having that crystal clarity focus what's at the top of our pyramid.

Thorough as maybe you have done with others?

Simon Clarkson Well, I think it's, it's I, I, I agree. I think it's it's a human, it's a human tendency to think there's not a problem unless there's a problem. Right. Mm-hmm. It's true that I, it's true that purpose doesn't often get really interrogated in companies unless the company is just starting out, in which case it may be crystal clear.

It's one of the reasons actually that Purpose Crafters joined up with an organization called the Non-Executive Directors Association. Mm-hmm. Which is a professional body for NEDs who are obviously represented on portfolios of boards and, and have that role to challenge. At the highest level of strategy and governance in, in the company, because I think it's an unconscious acceptance that the purpose of a company is obvious.

And I think, you know, when I said, when I said to you earlier that my observation is that, well, I don't think it's an observation. I think it's, it's, it's just the truth that no company would be formed without a purpose. You just wouldn't. Yeah, it's implausible. You wouldn't go and create, you wouldn't go and incorporate a company without there being a reason.

Their job is to keep the company operating, maximize its revenues, minimize its costs and it's, it doesn't necessarily feel like it's in the. The normal stream of work to raise your head up and think, right, where's, where is all this going? And so the rehearsed answers come to come to the forward, aren't they?

And they trotted out. And the question I suppose is, you know, which, which companies are being more proactive about thinking ahead.

If we were to do that exercise, what set of questions can we ask ourselves?

Simon Clarkson Hmm. The question about the question give it justice. Yes, yes, yes. Well, and, and this, that's, and these, these are, that's a terrific question because, because the minute you open your mind to, that, you can engage anybody at any level of the organization in a, in a rational discussion about it.

You know, the, I, I, I've got a few favorite questions that I would pose to any organization. I'd start with what's the core reason for our organization's existence and, and in particular, what value do we bring to the world? You know, what, and, and can we really say that that value matters beyond the industry that we're operating?

And the third thing in particular, how do our products and services contribute to the wellbeing of our customers and communities that we serve? So it's taking it down to the practical level of what we sell. Mm-hmm. And to the point I was making five or 10 minutes ago, how do we differentiate ourselves in the market by embedding our, our purpose into our unique value proposition?

Is it guiding us to be the best form of ourselves or is it a, or is it a purpose that anybody could have, which is great Yeah. In a general way, but may not lead to our fruition and success and it, and ultimately, That isn't necessarily gonna help other people either. If, if so, if we, and if we don't take Excel and sustain and find the best form of ourselves, which does require differentiation and does require competition because that in turn brings the best out in all the other companies, then is it a strong enough purpose?

So is it differentiating ourselves in the key question? Yeah. I could go on. Would you like some more questions?

Monica Millares Yes, yes. Gimme more questions and then, and then I'll tell you the feedback about that specific question.

So I'd say are our long term strategic objectives aligned with that purpose? And do they guide our decision making processes? Then how is our purpose reflected in the corporate culture internal and external communications, employee engagement? How do we assess our progress towards achieving those strategic objectives?

Back to tracking again. How do we ensure our actions are contributing to the organization's performance and growth and resilience? And finally, and this is, this is probably not in the right chronological order, but how do, how do we, in particularly if we're at the start of this journey, how can we involve all stakeholders, including our employees, customers, suppliers, and partners in the process of defining and refining and implementing our purpose?

Monica Millares How could we do that with customers? Especially if it's a new company where you're still trying to figure out. Who your real customer is and how you're helping them and serving them, but at the same time, you want them to be part of the process of defining the purpose of the company.

Simon Clarkson I suppose it depends what stage of development the, the idea for the company's at being orientated towards customers is, is a good start, right?

One, we've talked about, you know, your unique company history and capabilities. If it's not, if it's not founded on those things, it's not gonna be your company's purpose. We talked about impact, so it's got to the, the, the purpose has to matter beyond the industry for it to be something that resonates at a human level, but commercially as well.

It gives it those legs to extend beyond product life cycles. But the third thing is a customer need. Now either we're triangulating that customer need at the moment because we don't yet have customers and we're doing market research, and then later on we'll go and validate that idea. And the purpose will develop.

Or we already know who our customers are and we, we may use, we may use quotients of those as a founding board. But the key is, the key is to think about how best to represent honestly the interest of the customers, whether they're theoretical customers or actual customers. Rather than just ignore one.

Monica Millares Oh, I'm loving it. So as we, as we reached the end of the episode, where can we find more about you on Purpose Craft?

Simon Clarkson We have a website. The website is called purpose craft.co.uk. Purpose craft is all one word. Dot code UK and you'll find me on LinkedIn as well.

Monica Millares Perfect. And then just as the very last question that I will ask this question to everyone at the end of every show. If you could change one thing, just one thing in FinTech to make FinTech better and have positive impact to customers, staff, and investors, what could it be?

I do think that's a head room for improvement with a lot of FinTech businesses. And I think that will lead, lead to the greater differentiation, fruition, resilience, growth, and a blossoming industry, but by more focused purposes focused on particular kinds of impact. If I, if I, if I were to move beyond that, then the, then my answer as things stand would be greater interoperability, because I think that's an mm-hmm.

An an underlying strategic enabler. Awesome.

Monica Millares Thank you Simon. Very well. I will not elaborate on that because you just finished like the perfect way.

It's been a pleasure having you in the show, Simon, and I'm looking forward to posting this.

Simon Clarkson Wonderful to see you again, mon. Thank you so much for involving me.

Monica Millares Thank you Chacha, everyone. See you next week.