In her own words, Yuritzy is “a migrant, a single mother, and a contradiction.” We talk about how music can suggest hidden realities, and about the importance of small acts of kindness and sympathy.

Research Bibliography

"El Nueve, the gay bar that defied prejudice in the 80s"

https://www.eluniversal.com.mx/opinion/mochilazo-en-el-tiempo/el-nueve-el-bar-gay-que-desafio-los-prejuicios-en-los-80 

"'I did not experience homophobia in the 80s'"

https://sipse.com/mexico/homofobia-mexico-fundador-bar-el-nueve-222629.html 

The Personal, ephemeral and legendary:

https://www.informador.mx/Suplementos/El-Personal-efimero-y-legendario-20110611-0213.html

“Luis Pastor”

https://www.allmusic.com/artist/luis-pastor-mn0000439573/biography

“Chico Cesar”

https://www.womex.com/virtual/urban_jungle/chico_cesar

ELG: Greetings and welcome to the latest episode of “Si yo fuera una canción” -- “If I Were a Song.” We are a community-based podcast and radio show, in which people of Santa Ana, California, tell us in their own words about the music that means the most to them.

I am Elisabeth Le Guin, your program host, and Director of this project.

This project is based on my conviction that we people in the modern, urban world need to learn to listen to one another; and that music, and all it brings us, is the perfect place to begin.

DAVID: My name is David Castañeda, music researcher here for the SYFUC podcast. I am so happy to be a part of this project, using my scholarly training and my performance experience to bring you the stories, music, and lived experiences of those living right here in Santa Ana.

Today’s interview is with Yuritzy Pérez, a native of Guadalajara who has made Santa Ana her home for the last seven years. Yuritzy’s song choices give us a very particular sense of her part of México, and attest to the growing importance of social criticism in her musical choices. She ends by reminding us of the importance of simple decency in our day-to-day dealings with one another.

ELG: Alright so it’s- what day is today? It’s October 28th, right?

Yuritzy: Wednesday?

ELG: Yeah, it’s Wednesday, that I know.

Yuritzy: Wednesday in Spanish is miércoles, from Mercurio, or, Mercury. Mercury represents communication.

ELG: Oh, no way!

Yuritzy: Yup, it’s the day of communication. [laughs] As far as I know...

ELG: What good timing! [both laugh] Perfect...Ok let’s get started. If you can tell us a bit about yourself, anything about your life you’d like to share with our listeners.

Yuritzy: Ok...my name is Yuritzy. I’m 38 years old and my profession is, well, I’m a lighting designer. That’s what I spend the greater part of my day working on, from Monday to Friday. And, well, how do I identify, hmm? First and foremost, I identify as a migrant. The second way I identify is as a single mother. And lastly, at least right now, I’m a contradiction. So those are the three things I identify with most: migrant, single mother and contradiction.

ELG: Contradiction, you say.

Yuritzy: Yes contradiction.

ELG: Well I hope we’ll have the opportunity to explore that a little more. [both laugh] Alright, great. And when did you arrive in Santa Ana or...I know that right now you don’t technically live in Santa Ana, but fine. I know you through Santa Ana’s musical and social scenes. So, when did you arrive in, let’s say, this part of Southern California?

ELG: Really that’s it? So recently.

Yuritzy: Yes, I’ve been living here in Southern California for seven years. When I turned nine, my whole family and I moved to Northern California, to a city, well, more like a town, a place called Hamilton, very near Chico, California.

ELG: Ah.

ELG: Hah! [surprised]

Yuritzy: To be free—[laughs], but I only lasted for four months, because I left in October, and when winter came, I began to feel really sad! [both laugh]

ELG: Of course! [laughing]

Yuritzy: [still laughing] – I didn’t know anybody. So, to begin with, things were going relatively well. I met people, I had a place to live, I found work, a bunch of things. But I haven’t gone back.

ELG: Yeah. Winter on that part of the continent is really tough, for sure. Yeah... [a bit more laughter] I didn’t realize you’d lived in that many places in the US. So, I’m learning something new about you. Well, OK....this question, ‘where are you from?’ can be taken in various ways, Literally, geographically, culturally, psychologically, however you want.

Yuritzy: So, I definitely think the song I chose represents where I’m from, and while I don’t think it represents every tapatío, or person from Guadalajara in a definitive way, it does depict many of my experiences. It doesn’t just talk about a place, right? It talks about feelings and experiences that I had there. So—I’m from Guadalajara, I was born and raised there, and well, yeah...This song truly represents me. In fact, we could, if you want, almost go word for word, it’s so...It utilizes such distinct images, images and customs that are very distinctly from Guadalajara.

ELG: Sure, sure. Yes, I noticed. Unfortunately, I haven’t visited Guadalajara yet. It’s on my list. But I noticed a, I don’t know, a certain affect, an air to the song. Great, so let’s give it a listen.

MUSIC CLIP: “La tapatía,” by la banda El personal

ELG: I knew nothing about this band or these artists, before your recommendation. So last night I spent a good while listening to several of their songs and albums, and they are a band whose musical profile is particular to them, no? It’s very, quite unique and charming. I love what they do, but alright, how did you first hear of the group, “El Personal”?

ELG: And do you still listen to them often? Or is it more like a reminder of a certain time in your life?

Yuritzy: No, a lot of their music is still on playlists I’ve made of my favourite songs, that I listen to on “Shuffle” sometimes. For example, I have a playlist for when I have company and we want to dance, a dancing playlist, with this song on it, right? Because to me, this song has a lot of movement and makes me want to dance. So, one or another of their songs is always coming on, for example, they have one called "Nosotros los marranos", or “We the Pigs”, that talks about.... it’s a metaphor or analogy, I’m not sure how to explain it. [About how] We humans are destroying the planet. It talks about that. And yes, we are the pigs! I really adore their music. Many of their songs make a lot of sense to me.

ELG: How interesting! I’d never heard the word marrano for ‘pig’ before.

Yuritzy: [Uh huh! [And,] you know, it can also be used to describe someone as dirty, eh? A slob.

ELG: I see.

Yuritzy: But yeah, hehe, a marrano is, well, the pigs we eat. [Pork.]

ELG: There’s another song by the same band, with a chorus that says, like, “somos los puercos", or “we are pigs” again, right? And there’s an “oink, oink” sound. It seems like “we are pigs” is a running theme with this group...

Yuritzy: Yep.

MUSIC CLIP #2: from “Somos los marranos” by El personal

Insert #1 Yuritzy (English)

ELG: So David: "El Personal," the name of that band translates in English to "the personnel," which is a funny name for a band and I think probably a little bit ironic, like so much of their music. Tell us what you found out about this band.

DC: Yeah, I think that this band is very interesting because they actually had their start at the famous Bar Nueve in Mexico City, and this bar became known in many, many circles, but most of all, in this what we can call "counterculture," kind of like alternative scene in Mexico City in the 70s and the 80s. It was one of the only bars at that time in that city, specifically catering to the LGBTQ community members. These two guys, Henry Donnadieu and Manolo Fernandez, started it, recognizing that there wasn't a space for those of the LGBTQ community to congregate. So they started this bar and it became kind of this hub for counterculture and alternative groups. And for me, it's just another example of, you know, the LGBTQ community coming together to provide the space for alternative ideas, and it giving rise to, in this case, fantastic art, but in other cases, social movements that have changed society here in the United States, and also in Latin America.

ELG: Right. Right, well, yeah, I'm thinking, you know, Stonewall was a bar! You know, and that it's bars, it's not even so-called cultural centers, you know, it's spaces that really are, I don't know, a little bit out of the mainstream of what generally gets called "culture," but actually it's like this incredibly rich alternative space. And like you say, this amazing art comes out.

DC: Right.

ELG: And, you know, in this case, it came out in the form of this band, which produces this music that gets called "fusion music." I don't know if you want to say anything about what that means to you, this idea of musical fusion.

DC: Well, as someone who does a lot of fusion music, I can say that I don't like the term "fusion." [both laugh] I think I think it's best to let music be what it's going to be because then it can be free and people can interpret it however they want. You know, it's for me, fusion music is just music doing what people do, which is they listen and they experience and then they create based on those experiences. So, very open. I don't like the term!

ELG: Well, yeah, and you know, what it makes me think of, actually, is cooking! That you're going to make a soup and you get a bunch of ingredients together and, you know, maybe somebody might look at those ingredients and think, "Really, you're going to put THOSE things together?" But if you're a good cook and you're "on" that night, you know, sometimes these really unusual combinations will just make something that's, like, brilliant because it comes together, and it cooks, and it... It makes new art in food form.

DC: Mm hmm. Exactly.

ELG: One other thing I did want to comment on about the song that Yuritzy chose, "La tapatía," --which talks a lot about food, as it happens-- and we get going in the interview about this, this theme of... Pigs. There's this other song by the band called "Nosotros Somos los marranos," We Are the Pigs. And what they're talking about there is that human beings are really dirty and messy and we mess things up. [both laugh] You know, we do! And the reason I wanted to mention this is that it resonates for me with another interview in this series that we did, a couple of months ago now, it's the interview with Graciela Holguín, who is also a native of Guadalajara. Graciela is of another generation, she's in her 80s now. And she talks about Guadalajara, and she talks about the Lago de Chapala, the big lake that's outside of the city, with such love in her voice. But then she says, "You know, that lake's been really badly polluted and they killed all the fish--"

DC: [Oh, my goodness.

ELG: "--I really wish it could be the way it was." And I'm just thinking, OK, well, here's Yuritzy, a younger native of the same city. And she brings us these artists "El personal," who are talking about "Somos los marranos."

DC: Mm...

ELG: They're talking about the fact that we humans, boy, we mess things up. And it's just really poignant, this resonance between the two interviews, I think.

DC: It is, it is, unfortunately so. But hopefully we can change that moving forward, you know?

ELG: I hope so.

ELG: And, alright, in [your] song there’s a list of everything the couple ate. So, how do you identify with that? I would never think of pigs when thinking of you, Yuritzy. So, in what way do you identify with this image?

Yuritzy: Well I do identify with it because I love to eat! It’s...well, to me, when it talks about all the food, it makes me think, well, for starters, they had walked a lot, right? Around the whole city. The song tells a story. It’s a story of how he fell in love, right? It goes, “En Guadalajara fue donde me enamoré.", or “In Guadalajara where I fell in love.” But definitely for me just about falling in loving with someone, the girl he met at the bus station, right? Who’s getting herself a huge birote. Well, in Guadalajara, the birote is pretty iconic. For those who haven’t been to Europe, who haven’t seen a baguette, well to see a loaf of bread that big, makes you go “Wow!”, no? A birote that’s almost 3 feet long, I mean that’s big! So, it talks about food...And to me, it talks about all that food because they were walking a lot. [Another] part of the song mentions “vicio”, or vice. I was looking into it, because they also talk about “el toquecito”, or “a little toke”, so, marijuana. They smoked marijuana, right?

ELG: Sure.

Yuritzy: I had my doubts, so I asked various friends of mine who are also big fans of the group, and who are a lot older than I am, so lived through more of that era. They said that no, the band, the band members had a reputation for being heavy into drugs, not only marijuana, but drugs in general. So, the “vice” in those days was something that was even banned in Guadalajara for a long time. It was something called “Tommy.” It was a solvent sold in shoe stores that you’d inhale, and well...

ELG: Yeah.

Yuritzy: So, for me everything about the food, it’s just, like, a relationship that, they’ve been hanging out all day long, walking, doing drugs, and whatnot. And then they go to a typical spot in the city that sells a lot of snacks, and you can get a lot of....and besides, well, the food is similar everywhere, it’s pretty typical, nothing too innovative, of course: tostadas, sopes, pozole, things that can be found all over Mexico....But in Guadalajara the food has its own style, and unique way of being served, you know?

ELG: Of course, of course. Well, yeah, thank you for explaining. You’ve gotta explain a lot to me! Ok, there’s an aspect of this song that really caught my attention at first, and that’s...How do I explain? It’s that the tone is very lighthearted. It doesn’t take itself very seriously. Not the singer, or the story being told. I’d say that the tone is a bit ironic. And I wanted to ask you about it, Yuritzy, because I know you as someone who is quite serious and very sincere. So, do you hear this song’s tone as being ironic? Or how?

Yuritzy: Yes, yes, of course. Yes, I can be very serious, but... When I was younger, I was a mess. I mean, I was really all over the place. So yeah, what I’m saying is, the song is very irreverent, and humorous. But for me it’s important to put everything into the context of what Guadalajara is. So, it’s known to be quite a conservative city, right? But for me it’s far from it. It’s a city, well, with a double moral standard. It’s conservative in appearance, but truly has a double moral standard. For example, Guadalajara is known for being a queer-friendly city. When I was younger it was called the “Gay Capital”. So yes, for sure, I love this song precisely for that reason, because...because it transcends time, because it deals with social issues, you know? It questions topics that are taboo for the city, like sex and drugs, right? So, I really love it because, well, it raises a series of issues and for a society that...for example, the group. The group, like I said, the members were known to really like their drugs, and also, many of the members were gay. The singer died of AIDS, which, in those times, was only believed to be contracted by homosexuals. It’s pretty rough, but yeah. And of course, I love the song’s irreverence, its humour, and... well, yeah. I think you know me to be serious, but in those days, I wasn’t so serious!

ELG: Well, yes serious, but you also definitely have a wonderful sense of humour. So, I understand the connection a bit better. And I just have one more question about this song, and that it, in terms of musically representing the Guadalajara or Jalisco region, there’s a group of very famous songs that are used to express exactly this regional sentiment. I’m referring to, well, to the charming and well-known mariachi song “El Tapatío”, or “The Man from Guadalajara”, and of course, the “jarabe tapatio”, or “Mexican Hat Dance” is incredibly famous, but—you didn’t choose either of those songs!

Yuritzy: [laughs]

ELG: And I think we already have an idea of why. But if you could it explain it a bit...

Yuritzy: It’s funny, because look, let me give you an anecdote. Someone told me that you’d spoken to them, that you’d invited them to do an interview, right? So, I told them that you’d invited me to do one as well, and I said, “I already know my song, it’s going to be ‘la tapatía.’” And they were like, “I’d thought about that song too!” This song really represents who I am. I completely identify with it because, it’s reggae, and it’s cumbia, and it’s rock! All genres I love, you know? And the story also helps transport me to Guadalajara. The truth is that...I liked mariachi music for a long time, and even now I still enjoy it sometimes, but not like I did before. But...but yeah, I keep thinking, how do I identify? Well, it’s [with] this. There’s no other song.

ELG: Yeah, yeah, the terms of the interview are a little broad, right? This is intentional, because we could talk for four hours about all the music that you relate to, or that you like. Haha! But it occurs to me that mariachi music doesn’t carry that double meaning that you spoke of a while ago. That sense of a moral, a way of living in the city that’s very, very complex, and a little at war with itself. right? [Mariachi] is a bit simpler in terms of what it expresses.

Yuritzy: Yeah, yeah, I agree.

ELG: Yeah, I really like the complexity of this song. It seems really simple, but it’s not! [both laugh] Good, well, ahhh... Let’s get to the third question, and the second song. Let’s consider your hopes for the future, and how they’re expressed in this song by Luis Pastor. He’s a super interesting figure. And the song you chose is also really interesting.

MUSIC CLIP: “En la fronteras del mundo,” by Luis Pastor with Chico César

ELG: I’m over here, like bopping up and down in my seat. [both laugh] It has this beat that’s really...super bouncy. Well OK, tell me a bit about your relationship with this song.

Yuritzy: I can even remember the program I [first] heard this song on. In fact, that program connected me to a lot of music that became music I listen to at least once a week, right? So, I’m sure it was a program called “el Tintero” on the University of Guadalajara Radio station, and well, I heard it there, and then I began to listen to Luis Pastor’s music whenever I had the chance. And, well, like you said, I think Luis Pastor is a person who is quite consistent in what he writes and what he says, no? Throughout his life and...and now that I have my own connection to son jarocho and I’m getting into the poetic tradition there and everything, I realized recently that he writes his memoirs in octosyllables! So...

ELG: Ah, you’re kidding! Wow, I’m going

to look into that. How awesome! Hah!

Insert #2 Yuritzy (English)

DC: Wow.

ELG: And protest songs could land you in jail and jail could get you killed.

DC: Wow.

ELG: He was taking a very considerable personal risk. And well, obviously, he survived. He has been writing songs ever since. He's incredibly prolific! And he's still going strong and he's now reaching out beyond Spain, making contact with other artists and doing all these transnational collaborations.

DC: Yup! and one of them is with the song that that we hear in this episode here, and that's with Chico César. So Chico César is from Paraíba, Brazil originally. He has also made a career creating this socially conscious, politically minded music as a singer-songwriter. And I think that goes really well and that compliments Luis Pastor. I think we can hear it in that in that selection Yuritzy played for us. But for me, the thing that stands out most is the fact that they chose to make this bilingual, right? So here in the United States, we're used to bilingual English-Spanish. In this selection, we hear Spanish-Portuguese, which I love. I mean, I'm a Portuguese speaker and I studied Brazilian music, [which] of course, is in Portuguese. So to hear this done in this way, I think reflects not only their work, what their aim is, but also this podcast, very much so! In terms of creating connections over cultural borders, ethnic borders and the rest. I really, really loved it.

Yuritzy: Yeah, yeah, so, yes, like I said. It was hard to choose because there were so many options, you know? But this, this song I really like, and it’s also by one of my favourite artists. It was a hard one because I wanted the song to respond directly to the question. And I’m not sure how it expresses hope. But it does express and point to many of the problems [we face]. It doesn’t express what I want for the future, but it expresses the societal problems I would like to see change for the better. So, well, more than anything it addresses migration, work, how the rich get richer off the work of the poor, and inequality, you know? So... well yeah, its rhythm, its beat, definitely make me feel a little bit hopeful, right? It’s encouraging and... I like to think about how Luis Pastor, for a time, was known to be “a pebble in the shoe of the powerful.” [both laugh] So I love that idea.

ELG: Mm-hm.

Yuritzy: So, yeah!

ELG: I was reading a bit about Luis Pastor, and it appears he is from quite a humble background, he lived in a neighbourhood on the outskirts of Madrid, which was sometimes called “The Madrid Trash Heap.” His neighbourhood is called Vallecas. And part of his art and music is dedicated to singing about the issues, passions, and lives in his own neighbourhood.

Which is pretty admirable, right?

I really appreciate what you’re saying, that he seems to be someone who is super consistent. In this case, with this song, which is just a small piece of his vast repertoire—he’s made something like 20 albums, no? It’s incredible—its lyrics are very powerful, ahh...

Yuritzy: Yeah.

ELG: --and the music is quite upbeat. Though the lyrics are definitely tough. He talks about, well, “those who are scattered by famine, stripped of their land, forgotten by destiny, etc.” And it’s like a pretty powerful list of problems facing Spaniards, much like in the US, or in many other, ah, we could say, developed countries. But the music changes everything, right? It’s like you said, it becomes uplifting. It’s like magic. With this reggae-like sound it becomes something different.

Yuritzy: Yes. I was thinking about it a bit. Well the, the lyrics are intense, like you said. But that very simple but very powerful phrase “I’m you, I’m him.” The act of seeing ourselves in others, no? Which I think we often forget to do, or many people forget to do. People who are anti-migration, or pro-war. Which, you know, they forget to put themselves in someone else’s shoes, as they say. Right? So, the message behind “I’m you, I’m him” is, not to see ourselves as so separate from others. Quite simple, but quite powerful for me...

ELG: Yes! Yes of course. So, tell me. How is it that you...attempt to, or practice, this act of identifying with the other? Are there practices you have in your life, or moments where you find yourself facing an opportunity to practice this type of identification? I completely agree with you that it’s a fundamental part of empathy, and of confronting these social issues. but, how does one do it in daily life?

Yuritzy: Oh, I’d like to have that answer [myself]...I, something I make a strong point of doing, especially at work, you know? My workplace is a place with very defined hierarchies and status. For me, treating everyone in the lowest ranks of the hierarchy with courtesy every day is fundamental, right? I know that perhaps it’s not the best economic choice for me, but—the act of refusing to consider rising in the ranks of that hierarchy by means of things like, well, pride and the belittlement of other people. It’s something I make a point of every day at work. There have been times where maybe, I’m ashamed to admit, that I’ve aspired to, or wanted to do things differently. Out of a desire for a higher status maybe, or whatever. But over time I always think it’s been more valuable, and more meaningful to remember that there are more important things, right? Like treating people well, because, for example, at my work there are a lot of people who arrive and never greet anyone. Well, I don’t know, to me that is very, well really sad, no? And so, I tried to replicate that at the Centro Cultural de México, right?

ELG: Mm-hmm.

Yuritzy: So always giving those with fewer privileges more space, more time, more...it’s hard, because, well, it’s a power game everywhere. I’m not going to say that it’s only that way at the Centro, also at my work, in the streets, everywhere, so...

ELG: Yeah.

Yuritzy: For me, well, I don’t know. I’m not sure how valuable it is, or whatever, but at least I have the sense that...that I’ve done what I believed was right.

ELG: Yeah, yeah.

Yuritzy: So, yeah. That’s it.

ELG: Yeah, I think it is. I mean, we have to start from where we are, right? And with acts, sometimes with very small actions. Or at least to us they seem small, but it could be an enormous step, to take a step towards someone who seems foreign, or unfamiliar to us. And... to not participate in these, like you say, hierarchies and games of power, that are everywhere, right?

Yuritzy: Mm-hmm.

ELG: And I think what you are describing- it’s not easy! But it’s super important, because we have to begin with our own lives, because without that, all the altruism in the world won’t matter, if we don’t have those particular and personal actions. So, I really admire what you’re saying. And yeah, “I’m you, I’m him” ...and no, it’s really deep, it’s really deep...

INSERT #3

ELG: So, I find myself moved to take a step back here and just reflect a little bit about the importance of small acts of kindness and goodness. Yuritzy brings this up in such a nice way in her interview. And it's a theme that has surfaced in a number of our interviews. It came up most recently in Brian Peterson's interview, in a very different context. And... It's really something that I just, I think we could all take a little extra time to think about: "No, we're not going to save the world with great gestures and magnificent works of art and great political alliances. We're going to save the world with small kindnesses to one another." If we can't start there and keep it there, the world's not going to get saved. That's the way I see it anyway.

ELG: and ok, talking a bit more about hope: How does the music and dance in your life help you to reach the future you desire?

Yuritzy: I think it helps in a few ways. Music

has that function, right? to show me a future I’d like to see...One of the ways I think it helps me, or the role it plays, is through inspiration, because I think that most of the music that I listen to inspires me through its lyrics. like in this song “En las fronteras del mundo” (on the world’s borders), it really packs a punch because it has great music, and great lyrics, in my opinion. It helps me to feel inspired and to have faith. How I would like to see the future...I have the urge to do crazy things to make a change...and I don’t think I’m the only one who feels that inspiration through music, I think a lot of people can feel it. So that’s one of the roles music plays for me, in my process of dreaming of a different world. The other is, well, as a fandanguera, jaranera and someone who aspires to do many things within the fandango, it’s a door through which I can denounce something or bring attention to things that are not right, that we can change, that we can work on. So that’s the other role music plays, as a tool. And I think it’s also really important as a release, right? Because I couldn’t think of a world where, even if everything was perfect if there wasn’t music it would be like, no then it wouldn’t be perfect, right? [A perfect world] couldn’t exist without music because I think it, well, it helps so much to heal us, more than anything, and to get to know ourselves, and to socialize, and...So, so many things music does. I can’t imagine a happy world without it.

ELG: Do you think the capacity of impromptu, homemade music is different from that of music that’s commercially recorded?

Yuritzy: Yes, I think there’s a difference, but in my opinion, neither takes away from the other. Because, for example, this song by Luis Pastor, even though it’s not very commercial, it was played on the radio. [If it hadn’t], not as many people would have heard it, not as many people would have identified with it. Perhaps some of them felt inspired like me and are thinking about changing the world. I don’t know. So, there’s a capacity there. It’s different from the capacity of our son jarocho music, which is, to get together and talk within the community. And that has an effect, I think. [So, the capacities are] different, but not necessarily opposed.

But let’s say, for example, I started out with this music, which has more than one social content at a certain age, from there I began seeking out forms of expression or, music specifically, that carried the meaning of “Hey, this isn’t right. We’ve gotta do something, no?” And so, I see that it brings people together too, people who share a certain vision of how they’d like to see the world, right, so I started to feel more connected to people who like son for example. I think it [represents] a way of life I aspire to, a life of dreams and everything, and we’re headed in the same direction.

ELG: Yeah. And for that reason, also you talked about inspiration. It’s that...it moves us to do things and change things. Maybe yeah.

Yuritzy: Hopefully.

ELG: Yes, hopefully. Well we are coming to the end of our interview, I think, But, one more thing: I want to go back to something you expressed at the beginning, which is, when you introduced yourself, you said that “you’re a contradiction”. [they laugh a bit] And I want to finish by returning to that for a bit, because it turns out that the songs you picked, each one has a strong element of contradiction! In this case, with Luis Pastor, there’s a very strong and effective contradiction I would say, between the seriousness of the lyrics, and the joyfulness of the music. And it creates a kind of chemistry, which turns the song into something quite powerful. But when it comes to...to you, hehe, as a person, do you want to speak a bit more on the contradictions you referred to?

Yuritzy: Ummm...Well more than contradictions it’s that... I give myself permission. I give myself permission to be a contradiction, and by that, I mean, well, there have been many times in my life where I’ve been 100 percent sure of something. [ELG cackles] Or that...that I’m NOT going to do something, for example. That’s happened to me several times. I’m not going to do thing X. no, I’m not going to do it! and [at the same time] there’s elements that are telling me “yes, do it, do it.” There are people who tell me to do it, or that...And I can go a long time saying “no”, but then all of a sudden, Boom! I do it! [both laugh] I contradict myself, right? Or another thing, I think about sometimes, and it doesn’t make me very proud, but...well, I was always really against the system and everything, right? And, like, now I live a life that’s well, definitely NOT outside of the system, I have a pretty ordinary life. So, my life contradicts my ideals. I’m not consistent, you know, like Luis Pastor. I can be against many things, but...I have a job that doesn’t value the environment, or...many things, no? There are so many factors that make me go “wow”, Or...the simple fact that...the simple fact that I’m in the United States, right? I mean, for myself and my closest friend, the US has always represented the, well, the oppressor, the system that has wrecked so much of the world, etc. And, I’m here in the US! Right?

ELG: Yes.

Yuritzy: So....so yeah! I can be defined as being a contradiction.

ELG: Hahaha, well that’s a lovely sentiment. I think it’s very mature, no? To accept and recognize the contradictions in our lives, because very few people are that consistent. But, if I’m understanding you correctly, the important thing is to accept oneself. Accept the contradictions, accepts the faults. Accept all the things we do that aren’t that, that great, eh? And to accept ourselves as human beings, right?

Yuritzy: Yeah, yeah, I think I’m arriving at that point. It used to be harder, more painful, a much greater internal conflict for me, and now I say, “well...” As another song says, “We aren’t what we want to be,”—right? “but what we can be.”

So...

ELG: Yeah. But I also see you as having a lot of clarity, a person who... You always fight for the wellbeing of others. You’ve made a strong commitment [to that], and it shows. We have to keep fighting, right?

Yuritzy: I think so...let’s hope.

ELG: Yeah, let’s hope. Exactly. Well I think this is a good note on which to end the interview, unless you have anything else you’d like to say.

Yuritzy: No, just to thank you, tell you thanks so much for having me. It’s been a real pleasure and...

ELG: For me as well.

Yuritzy: What a great project.

ELG: Well, I love it. I truly love this project, it’s such a privilege. I love the way music gives us a... like, a window through which we can see the horizons of our lives from a bit of a wider angle. Speaking of privilege, it’s a huge privilege to be able to discuss these things with my friends. Alright... in a bit I’m also going to send you...I have the habit of making little sketches as I converse. And I made a sketch of—of a marrano! [both burst out laughing]

ELG: I’m going to send it to you as a “thank-you gift” [more laughter].

Yuritzy: I love it! Yes, send it to me.

ELG: Thank you for teaching me that word. Well, thank you Yuritzy, talk to you soon.

Yuritzy: Thank you, have a great night.

ELG: Yeah, you too. OK, take care.

Yuritzy: 'Bye.

ELG: 'Bye, chau.

Would you like to know more?

On our website at siyofuera.org, you can find complete transcripts in both languages of every interview, our Blog about the issues of history, culture, and politics that come up around every song, links for listeners who might want to pursue a theme further, and some very cool imagery. You’ll find playlists of all the songs from all the interviews to date, and our special Staff-curated playlist as well.

We invite your comments or questions! Contact us at our website, or participate in the Si Yo Fuera conversation on social media. We’re out there on FaceBook and Instagram. And then there’s just plain old word of mouth. If you like our show, do please tell your friends to give it a listen. And do please subscribe, on any of the major podcast platforms. We’ll bring a new interview for you, every two weeks on Friday mornings.

Julia Alanis, Cynthia Marcel De La Torre, and Wesley McClintock are our sound engineers; Zoë Broussard and Laura Díaz hold down the marketing; David Castañeda is Music Researcher; Jen Orenstein translates interviews to and from Spanish; Deyaneira García and Alex Dolven make production possible. We are a not-for-profit venture, currently and gratefully funded by the John Paul Simon Guggenheim Foundation, UCLA’s Faculty Grants Program, and the Herb Alpert School of Music.

For now, and until the next interview—keep listening to one another!

I’m Elisabeth Le Guin, and this is, “Si yo fuera una canción -- If I were a song…”