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S3E2 - Guest Feature - Mat - Education system, FDA, Depression and more!
Episode 21st October 2021 • Cricket's Campfire • Ben Beach
00:00:00 01:05:42

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Join us as we delve into the depths of the systems that control us, the FDA, depression, and more!

If you or a friend is experiencing suicidal thoughts, please reach out to the National Suicide hotline, they are staffed 24/7 and have a wonderful team there to help, or just listen. 800-273-8255.

Transcript available on https://cricketscampfire.com/

Transcripts

Ben:

Hey there and welcome to crickets campfire.

Ben:

I'm Ben, and I'll be your host today.

Ben:

We have a guest who is featured on our website at crickets campfire.com.

Ben:

Be sure to look for crickets campfire on discord link is on our website as well,

Ben:

and connect with us now to introduce our guest today, Matt, over to you.

Mat:

Hey Ben and listeners.

Mat:

This is Matt, and I'm looking forward to being here with you guys today.

Ben:

Awesome Matt, and to give our listeners a bit of background, Matt

Ben:

has expertise in physics and pure mathematics and his breadth of knowledge

Ben:

is quite impressive actually, but mostly he's just fun to talk to Matt.

Ben:

Is there anything you'd like to tell the listeners?

Mat:

I have a diverse working background from many different aspects of life.

Mat:

I've worked in a bunch of different industries, done

Mat:

a ton of different things.

Mat:

I've owned a few businesses and I've traveled to a lot of different places in

Mat:

the U S I'd say probably traveled to more places than I haven't, which I think gives

Mat:

me a pretty well-rounded idea of different aspects of our own culture, as well

Mat:

as other people that we lived next to.

Mat:

And we talk to everyday across the U S I try to keep myself as well-rounded,

Mat:

as I can with an open mind, but not so much that my brain necessarily falls out.

Mat:

I do enjoy math, physics, philosophy, politics, chemistry, any, anything,

Mat:

it's all part of the same tree.

Mat:

And as long as it keeps its interest to me, Kind of hard not to do, but I am

Mat:

excited to be a part of the show today.

Mat:

I do hope that my point of view at the very least helps somebody

Mat:

somewhere ask themselves a question and maybe go look it up for themselves,

Mat:

potentially something that they haven't ever thought about before.

Ben:

Awesome.

Ben:

Thanks Matt.

Ben:

One more thing, Matt and I were talking just before the podcast.

Ben:

So I wanted to catch you up on the conversation also.

Ben:

Pardon the scatter brained conversation.

Ben:

It all relates to one big thing.

Ben:

If you just hang in there past the first 30 minutes, I promise

Ben:

you it'll be worth your time.

Ben:

So yeah, we're basically discussing the psychology and how our current system

Ben:

here in the U S anyway is set up for failure on multiple different levels.

Ben:

And we are nowhere near what I expect of ourselves.

Ben:

For instance, I have been trying to receive mental health care

Ben:

for the last three months.

Ben:

At least in fact, it may have even been longer than that from both

Ben:

my doctors and seeking it out.

Ben:

Personally, I cannot find a mental health care professional that can

Ben:

help me because they're so full.

Ben:

There's no room in anywhere I've tried.

Ben:

And then we were talking about that.

Ben:

And as we got into that, you were saying that the entire

Ben:

system is built for failure.

Mat:

Yeah.

Mat:

It's kind of, it's the inevitable outcome of that system.

Mat:

So if you want to know what a system is for what it's built

Mat:

for, look at what it produces.

Mat:

Don't listen to what people tell you it's for.

Mat:

Don't look at what it seems like it might be built for a system.

Mat:

Does what it does.

Mat:

It outputs, what outputs with whatever input you provide to it.

Mat:

So whether or not we're consciously making that decision or it's

Mat:

by design from people up top.

Mat:

However you want to look at that.

Mat:

Our system produces an unintelligent education system.

Mat:

It produces people that are unhealthy.

Mat:

It makes it harder to get a hold of products that are healthier

Mat:

for you, both food and topological products that go on your skin.

Mat:

Everything causes cancer.

Mat:

Nowadays our FDA is a laughing stock.

Mat:

It's a joke, but you want to know what our system is for?

Mat:

That's what it's for.

Mat:

What it produces.

Ben:

So we're all kind of just stuck in the system.

Ben:

And I know I've heard that our school system is designed for warehouse

Ben:

manufacturing, standing in line, taking orders, not questioning judgment

Ben:

understanding systems to a minimal degree so that you can potentially

Ben:

flourish, but never actually flourish.

Ben:

And so is there anything else you want to add to that, that I missed?

Mat:

Well, you're not taught how to be a CEO in school.

Ben:

That's true.

Ben:

That's true.

Ben:

Especially in business management,

Mat:

You're, you're taught how to be.

Mat:

It's a clerical system still.

Mat:

We're still going off of the old school clerical system.

Mat:

So anytime you have an educational system in a public sense, you're going

Mat:

to get a little bit less of an education than you would have in a private sense.

Mat:

Cause you're paying a little bit more for that.

Mat:

But as far as your education goes, You're in a system that's built

Mat:

for replacing somebody that's already in the workforce, right?

Mat:

Like you don't have to do anything outside of your job.

Mat:

You don't have to do anything outside of this niche that you're

Mat:

training yourself for whether that's college or just basic education.

Mat:

It's an education system.

Mat:

It's an indoctrination system.

Mat:

Whether or not you choose to look at it that way.

Mat:

That's what it is like.

Mat:

You're, you're going into the system and you're coming out a certain way.

Mat:

You're not coming out to be a CEO.

Mat:

You're not coming out to be on top.

Mat:

You're coming out to work for those people.

Mat:

And intrinsically, whenever you go into one of those systems, if you're a worker

Mat:

for a major corporation, the work that you're providing to that corporation is

Mat:

less than what you're getting paid for.

Mat:

If it wasn't that wouldn't be a good business decision for that

Mat:

corporation and or the product that that corporation is selling is worth

Mat:

less than what it's being marketed.

Ben:

Well, okay.

Ben:

So then that brings me into like a real life topical situation that I've

Ben:

been in at multiple different companies that I don't really wish to name

Ben:

because I don't want to be sued, but in those corporations, if I've ever

Ben:

drawn outside of the line, I've found that that is extremely discouraged.

Ben:

In fact, it's penalized you're not producing a certain amount now because

Ben:

you're thinking outside the box.

Ben:

So as a result, we have to put you on a disciplinary or reform plan because your

Ben:

performance isn't what we expect it to be.

Ben:

But wait, I'm according to the numbers, still performing

Ben:

exactly what it should be.

Ben:

In fact, I'm outperforming my peers.

Ben:

Well, that didn't matter.

Ben:

It wasn't that I was outperforming my peers.

Ben:

What mattered was I wasn't keeping my mouth shut.

Ben:

And so if I didn't follow the prompts on screen, exactly saying those exact

Ben:

words, I would fail that specific instance of support or whatever.

Ben:

It didn't matter that the customer's issue was resolved in

Ben:

three minutes instead of eight.

Ben:

It was that I didn't follow their process.

Mat:

And unfortunately, there might be certain reasons for that, like on the

Mat:

bad side of things, if you look at it, it's like, no, just stay in your niche.

Mat:

Don't go outside of that.

Mat:

You know, we, we don't want you to grow.

Mat:

That's one aspect of it.

Mat:

But if that's not the case, there could be a legal aspect of that too.

Mat:

Right?

Mat:

So like, if you're working for a bank, there might be certain things that you

Mat:

absolutely have to say to the customer.

Mat:

Like you can't go outside of that or else your company could potentially be sued.

Mat:

So they give you these really direct guidelines to follow.

Mat:

And if you don't follow those, then that could be bad for the company as a whole.

Mat:

So.

Mat:

From the standpoint of a company or a corporation, there might be certain

Mat:

reasons for that, that are beneficial to everybody as a whole, or for them to

Mat:

be able to even work in that business.

Mat:

But from an individual standpoint, if there's no legal repercussions for going

Mat:

outside of your little niche there and providing an additional service, which

Mat:

helps the customers and intrinsically would help them stay a customer

Mat:

because they appreciate the customer service that you provided to them.

Mat:

Like what's wrong with that, right.

Mat:

But there's a lot of situations where that's frowned upon.

Ben:

I see.

Ben:

And so then what corporations do is they twist that around and say, well,

Ben:

anybody can be sued in the us anymore.

Ben:

So we have to make sure that you're staying on this specific thing, because

Ben:

if you color outside those lines, there's 158 different rules you need to

Ben:

adhere to because you did those things.

Mat:

I mean, you could be sued for practically anything.

Mat:

It's just, how long can they keep you in the court and keep draining your pocket.

Mat:

Right.

Mat:

Even if it's a, a fraudulent court case, even if it's not going to go through,

Mat:

it's not going to pan out, you're still gonna have to pay court fees.

Ben:

Right.

Ben:

Right.

Ben:

Exactly.

Ben:

And so then becomes the question of when is individually individuality encouraged

Ben:

and should individuality be discouraged?

Ben:

And is that why the system that we're in right now is broken

Ben:

to the degree that it is?

Mat:

Well, if everybody was an entrepreneur and capable of free,

Mat:

intelligent thought and creativity, then we'd have a much different world than

Mat:

it probably wouldn't favor a few people.

Mat:

It would probably favor everyone.

Ben:

And so is that the challenge that it favors everyone and that's

Ben:

why people don't want to change.

Ben:

Is it socialism?

Ben:

Is it Darwinism?

Ben:

Is it, what is it that's causing us to be like, well, we prefer it this way.

Ben:

This is, this is what we want.

Mat:

Well, if you are on top and you control what happens from

Mat:

that perspective, then why would you want anything else to happen?

Ben:

What I'm trying to figure out though, is all of this makes logical

Ben:

and philosophical and theoretical sense, but how do we change the system?

Ben:

We can't, we can't go up against the billionairs.

Mat:

There's a really big issue that I don't know as though we

Mat:

really have a workaround for as humans and it's everybody knows it.

Mat:

And it's really, really simple.

Mat:

We don't always think about it, but imagine whatever you're good at,

Mat:

it doesn't matter what that job is, whatever you're really, really good

Mat:

at, you know, a lot more about that situation than most normal people do.

Mat:

Right?

Mat:

So like, you know, the ups and downs of your trade, you know,

Mat:

what works, what doesn't work, but not everybody else knows that.

Mat:

So there's a degree as human beings for us to be able to take a situation, simplify

Mat:

it, be like, why can't this just be done?

Mat:

Why can't we just do this?

Mat:

This would be so much easier if we could just do this, but there's

Mat:

so many factors that we just don't understand on an individual basis.

Mat:

And that's okay.

Mat:

That's why we have that's part of the reason why we have a system that

Mat:

is based off of specialists, right?

Mat:

So we have specialists that are really good at these things and they help

Mat:

drive this aspect of our economy or our social structure in a certain direction.

Mat:

But then the information that's actually put out there what's

Mat:

approved, what's not approved.

Mat:

That can be controlled.

Mat:

And if you can control that, then you can control how the

Mat:

system is steered as a whole.

Mat:

You can't control the experiments that the specialist or the scientists or the

Mat:

practices that certain people are doing in certain areas, but you can make laws,

Mat:

you can make jurisdictional references, you can create court cases that support

Mat:

certain things over different things.

Ben:

So this brings me into an interesting reference then Kyle

Ben:

Hill, have you heard of him?

Mat:

Potentially I'm bad with names.

Ben:

He's a YouTuber, looks like Thor.

Mat:

Oh yes.

Ben:

Very knowledgeable, very good graphics.

Ben:

And as YouTube videos.

Ben:

Yeah.

Ben:

Anyway, so this guy, Kyle Hill, he did a segment on info hazards

Ben:

and I never really considered that aspect of bringing this back to.

Ben:

What people learn is how you control them.

Ben:

I never considered this, but info hazards can be as simple as a blanket

Ben:

statement about how nuclear physics works.

Ben:

And he did quite some interesting thought patterns on that.

Ben:

Where if everybody knew these things, then there would be chaos.

Ben:

If you knew that by inserting a phrasiology about how you build a nuclear

Ben:

bomb, that would cause challenges.

Mat:

So that, that plays directly off of cognitive dissonance as human beings.

Mat:

So whenever what we're doing is in stark contrast to what we believe, then we get

Mat:

this thing called cognitive dissonance.

Mat:

It's a very uncomfortable mental state mental feeling, and we try to

Mat:

do everything that we can as human beings to stop that from happening,

Mat:

whether consciously or unconsciously.

Mat:

We'll fight something mentally, verbally, whatever, if necessary, to make sure

Mat:

that we're in a position where we're not feeling cognitive dissonance.

Mat:

And one of the struggles with that is that if you're told information

Mat:

enough, you'll start to believe it.

Mat:

So if you're just force fed, this is what the truth is.

Mat:

This is what the truth is.

Mat:

This is what the truth is.

Mat:

Eventually you're going to have an inclination to believe

Mat:

that that's what the truth is.

Mat:

If you don't have any information that tells you otherwise.

Mat:

So if you're presented with new information, that goes against what you've

Mat:

been pre-programmed to believe you're going to have an instant conflict with

Mat:

cognitive dissonance, and you're going to choose to fight, to save the system.

Mat:

That's actually giving you that cognitive dissonance opposed to coming to the truth.

Ben:

And that then becomes when do we adopt new technology?

Ben:

You can apply that to basic everyday life.

Ben:

When do you change the oil in your car?

Ben:

When do you change to a new car?

Ben:

Do you change to a new car because your current car has one challenge or.

Ben:

Do you want to change from the old reliable vehicle to a

Ben:

potentially new unstable vehicle?

Ben:

Now that probably doesn't apply to very many people, but I buy used vehicles

Ben:

and I pay cash for all my vehicles.

Ben:

So that definitely applies in my life.

Mat:

You can see that with appliances too, if you want to go that route,

Mat:

opposed to like, you know, information, education, if you wanted to go the

Mat:

route of like appliances or hardware, you can look at older hardware

Mat:

stuff that's, you know, made back in the fifties or sixties is tanks.

Mat:

Like they've been around forever older vehicles, older microwaves,

Mat:

like it might use older technology.

Ben:

But what then happens when you introduce a form of chaos

Ben:

to this standardized theory or subscription or model of education?

Ben:

For instance, now we have the internet and I can go learn nuclear physics on my

Ben:

own, through a Libby course or whatever.

Ben:

No, not libby.

Ben:

What is LinkedIn's learning platform anyway, probably LinkedIn learning.

Mat:

I'd imagine that you find changes in the system as a whole, right?

Mat:

So as individuals are able to auto didactically change themselves

Mat:

and become smarter on a particular subject, then intrinsically the

Mat:

whole system is going to change.

Mat:

I mean, you've seen how our entire world has changed incredibly since

Mat:

the internet has came out and that's been within our lifetime, right?

Mat:

Like, look at how much has changed because of that.

Mat:

And that's opening up of the freedom of the sharing of information

Mat:

between human beings, all across.

Mat:

And it continues to change, but what, what then becomes an issue there?

Mat:

And we're going to slip into a slightly different topic.

Mat:

If we follow through with this is who controls, what information is

Mat:

presented, what information you encounter, how often you encounter

Mat:

it and what that information is.

Mat:

Right?

Mat:

So the easiest example of that is you go do a Google search.

Mat:

What are you going to click on?

Mat:

It's not going to be something on the 15th or the 16th page.

Mat:

It's going to be something in the first, second, maybe the third page,

Mat:

but probably the first page for 90% of the people that do a search.

Mat:

Okay.

Mat:

Why are those things showing up on the first page?

Mat:

Is it because they're the most popular or is it because there's an algorithm that's

Mat:

doing something that maybe you don't know?

Ben:

Oh, I can absolutely 110% tell you there's an algorithm.

Ben:

We don't know that's going on there.

Ben:

In fact, it is widely published that we.

Ben:

Do not know why Google ranks certain webpages to the top.

Ben:

And in fact, they have set the entire system up to be that way, because

Ben:

they don't want web developers to game the search engines and

Ben:

make their post come to the top.

Mat:

So think about that.

Mat:

Why wouldn't that be public knowledge?

Mat:

Why wouldn't it be public knowledge that 90% of the information

Mat:

that's being forced on you?

Mat:

Because once again, if you're exposed to information repeatedly, you're going

Mat:

to start to believe that information.

Mat:

If you don't have anything that directly goes against it, according

Mat:

to your beliefs or according to what you already know or think.

Mat:

So, if you're constantly being fed information from the top one or two

Mat:

pages from Google, why, why is it, why is it the same for all people?

Mat:

If you do a certain search, why when you start to type something

Mat:

in, are the suggestions popping up?

Mat:

Might they have something in common, those suggestions that you typing in,

Mat:

but why is it automatically suggesting that you might want to search for this

Mat:

when there's information that's out.

Mat:

That's just beyond our capability, as human beings,

Mat:

to be able to process it all.

Mat:

We have to create AI to be able to process all the information that's out

Mat:

there when there's that much information.

Mat:

Why are you only exposed to one page of information?

Mat:

Why are you?

Mat:

It doesn't make any sense or maybe

Ben:

It does well, okay.

Ben:

So here comes the counter argument on that.

Ben:

It does make sense that you're only exposed to the first page of that because

Ben:

we, as humans are not designed and, or nor are we capable of ingesting even

Ben:

the first page these days, why don't we can't even focus on the first page.

Mat:

So let's play off of that.

Mat:

If that's true, who decides what information you get exposed to?

Ben:

Well, clearly the fundamental understanding of that would be money.

Ben:

Any reason it's got to all come back to money.

Ben:

So who controls it is fluctuating.

Ben:

I'd imagine.

Ben:

I'd imagine we can, as consumers we are dictating who controls that by

Ben:

using duck, duck, go by trying to encourage apple, to not filter all of

Ben:

our stuff and not open up our phones.

Mat:

Those are movements against the system though, right?

Ben:

They are.

Ben:

But we, as there's, there is a small percentage of human beings who are privacy

Ben:

centric and those small percentage of, of privacy centric human beings are

Ben:

starting to grow and starting to expand.

Ben:

And I can recognize this.

Ben:

Two years ago.

Ben:

I didn't care if Google had all my photos.

Ben:

I didn't care if they knew all the names of every person on those photos.

Ben:

But today I'm sitting here going, I don't know that I want to continue to give

Ben:

Google all of the people in my life.

Mat:

Yeah.

Mat:

When you can submit a photo to a certain big tech company, whether it's a social

Mat:

media company or a search engine, they can look in that photo and they can use AI to

Mat:

pick out items that are in your background to maybe try to determine your spending

Mat:

habits and try to market that to you.

Mat:

So they have an entire case file on you for whatever.

Mat:

Whatever institution that you're currently utilizing, whether it's

Mat:

a social media platform or not.

Mat:

So that when you're receiving information via ads, it's directly tailored to you.

Ben:

Oh God, I didn't even connect the dots to that.

Ben:

Picking out background objects.

Ben:

I've I've never even considered that.

Ben:

That was not on my radar, but now it is.

Ben:

And you've made me so much more anxious.

Ben:

Holy crap.

Ben:

It's...

Mat:

I'm sure that you've probably had a situation in your life.

Mat:

I have everything in my life that I can lock down, locked down, whether it's

Mat:

my phone's ability to listen to me, whether it's a social search engines,

Mat:

doesn't matter what it is or there's the internet browser that I use, because

Mat:

I would put myself on that gradient of people that want to make sure that I'm

Mat:

in control of what I do with my life.

Mat:

And the more that other people learn about me, the less and less I'm

Mat:

actually in control of that situation.

Mat:

So I'm sure that you've probably had the situation in your life,

Mat:

whether you realize it or not, where you've been talking around your cell

Mat:

phone and you might receive an ad for that very thing later that day.

Ben:

Oh yes.

Ben:

And that's so widely published as a huge trope.

Ben:

But when I was not in my privacy centric mode, I looked at that and said, so

Ben:

what they'd get that information some other way, whether it be my spending

Ben:

habits or my super saver coupon, barcode that they scan into the system

Ben:

because it's cheaper to buy stuff, letting them track you, then not for.

Ben:

Yes, I'm targeting grocery stores there,

Mat:

But what are they, what else are they listening to?

Mat:

If they can hear that, but you might have something in your house that you

Mat:

can call its name and it will react to you and you can play music with it and

Mat:

search things and buy things online.

Mat:

Right?

Mat:

I'm not going to say exactly what that is because there's multiple of them.

Mat:

But if you have something like that in your house, when you call

Mat:

its name, it responds to you.

Mat:

How does it know that you said its name it's constantly listening to you?

Mat:

It has to constantly be recording every bit of information that

Mat:

you say around it inside of it.

Mat:

Otherwise it wouldn't be able to discern what you're saying

Mat:

and what you're not saying.

Mat:

It has to put that information against information.

Mat:

That's already been coded inside of it so that you know, that you call its name.

Mat:

And if it's doing that, every single conversation you have in your house around

Mat:

one of those items is being recorded.

Mat:

It is being.

Mat:

Now whether or not that's being kept is another thing.

Ben:

And see that's where my tech centric mine comes in.

Ben:

It is inefficient improper, and there, there is, there is a level there where,

Ben:

okay, there is one specific tech giant that definitely loves to sell products

Ben:

and that's their entire business.

Ben:

And they happen to make one of these voice activated devices.

Ben:

There have been cases that have been proven, and it has been gone to court

Ben:

where this company was storing recordings and let anybody within the company access

Ben:

those recordings without reason without justification, without clarification,

Ben:

without reprise on the one end, my tech aspect of my mind goes, yeah,

Ben:

they, they definitely could be doing.

Ben:

But it doesn't make logical sense because you're spending a massive

Ben:

amount of money for storage.

Ben:

But on the other end of that spectrum, I forgot.

Ben:

We've now shifted into this reality where, because you store more, the system is

Ben:

now becoming capable of discerning more.

Ben:

It can understand because by default, by having more, we must

Ben:

be able to sift through more.

Ben:

I always looked at it as my more out there, I'm publishing hundreds and

Ben:

hundreds of gigs worth of data a day.

Mat:

You're also assuming that this isn't against you, but I'm just saying

Mat:

people in general, when you think about this, when you're actually hearing this

Mat:

information and interpreting it, you might just be thinking that this information

Mat:

is in the hands of this company alone.

Mat:

Right?

Mat:

How easy do you think it is?

Mat:

Or how hard do you think it is to hack your home network?

Mat:

And how do you think that that device is actually connecting to the internet?

Mat:

What do you think would happen if somebody got the ability to actually breach your

Mat:

network and has been doing it for months?

Mat:

Like what could they be listening to?

Mat:

How could they use that against you?

Ben:

So I worked in the tech support industry, very familiar, and I

Ben:

have ancidotal and commisurate experience, packing up all of this

Ben:

information here happens all the time.

Ben:

Every day, every day, you there's, there's millions of computers compromised.

Ben:

Now, granted, those who compromise computers are not typically.

Ben:

There's a very special asterisk next to that are not typically looking

Ben:

to capture such a large amount of information that they need to store.

Ben:

What they want are files pictures.

Ben:

Sometimes they'll go directly for the money and say, I want to in order to

Ben:

decrypt your hard drive, you need to spend 48 Bitcoin, whatever, but it

Ben:

happens on a mass scale every day.

Ben:

Millions of devices are infected.

Ben:

That's what ransomware that's what viruses are.

Ben:

They're infecting your network.

Ben:

They don't just infect your computer.

Ben:

I had a ransomware.

Ben:

Pop-up where I was the lead tech coordinator for a very, very

Ben:

large, we're talking hundreds of millions of dollars a year.

Ben:

It was a conversation between me and another MSP support team

Ben:

that we rely on for big projects.

Ben:

And then it became their insurance agency, their lawyers, 14

Ben:

different financial advisors.

Ben:

I mean, it was just this huge deal because their server was managed by another

Ben:

company that put that server there so that they can work and look up cars.

Ben:

So there's this automobile franchise, a big company out here, automobile, whatever

Ben:

you, you can call them whatever you want.

Ben:

It's just a company.

Ben:

Their job is to make software, to track vehicles, to sell.

Ben:

And they do that by deploying physical servers at locations

Ben:

across the United States.

Ben:

But what happened is their dedicated server.

Ben:

These people deployed at this site, used a common password as the administrator.

Ben:

Not only was it a common password?

Ben:

They used the same password across all of their servers.

Ben:

Their ransomware came in through that.

Mat:

There's a lot of situations where that's actually happening, it's happening

Mat:

right now with certain things that I'm not going to go into detail with, but

Mat:

that exact situation that people using the same password across an entire

Mat:

network of things that needs to be extremely secure, but has not been,

Ben:

I understand.

Ben:

And you probably don't know all of my work history.

Ben:

In fact, nobody probably does.

Ben:

Who's listening now, but I went into dentist's office.

Ben:

I've been in periodontal offices where they do surgery, orthodontal surgery,

Ben:

and I was support for those guys.

Ben:

I've been in small government offices and those offices use

Ben:

the same or similar equipments.

Ben:

We're not just talking military.

Ben:

I mean, military is fairly decent as far as I remember it.

Mat:

If you, if you have it out there in the world, And if it gets transferred

Mat:

on any kind of a system electronically over the internet or within even a

Mat:

closed system that has access to the internet, there's nothing, unless we

Mat:

had a fully, and this is what kind of backs into my area that I enjoy here.

Mat:

Physics, unless you have a system that is based on entanglement, quantum

Mat:

entanglement, as of right now, you will not have a fully secured system.

Mat:

And quantum entanglement is where you have two particles that share

Mat:

the same wave function intrinsically.

Mat:

And so anything that you do to one of the particles will

Mat:

instantly affect the other particle regardless of their distance across.

Mat:

They are tethered by time, obviously.

Mat:

So if you do something to want to happens to the other instantly, but

Mat:

you could have a particle theoretically here on earth, do something to it.

Mat:

And it would be affected all the way in the Andromeda galaxy Einstein

Mat:

called it spooky action at a distance.

Mat:

And we've only just in 2012, I think Weinberg was his name.

Mat:

One of the physicists won the Nobel prize for being able to observe a quantum system

Mat:

without actually disrupting the wave state of two entangled particles, which

Mat:

is huge because that means we can now read the information from the particle

Mat:

without destroying that connection.

Mat:

And what's important about that is you can't hack in a tangled

Mat:

network of particles, two particles that are entangled.

Mat:

You can't discern the information from outside of either two of those particles.

Mat:

It's not like tapping into a phone line or something like that.

Mat:

I see.

Mat:

So unless you're in that kind of a network, it's going to be extremely

Mat:

hard potentially in some situations.

Mat:

I mean, you can use proxies and VPNs and stuff like that,

Mat:

but nothing is invincible.

Ben:

And so that came back to my fundamental original argument

Ben:

of this whole thing, which is I published for a while.

Ben:

Hundreds of gigs of data about me a day, because I didn't care.

Ben:

Yeah.

Ben:

I do the goo.

Ben:

I had Google, I had Alexa, I have Siri, all three of those devices put together.

Ben:

I'm sure I'm publishing at least a couple of gig an hour.

Ben:

And then you've got your photos and your videos and your location data,

Ben:

and what device is active right now.

Ben:

What application is running right now?

Ben:

What are you doing inside of that application?

Ben:

Sometimes tracking your mouse movements directly inside of websites.

Ben:

There's just so much that, that it's very difficult to keep yourself protected from.

Ben:

So I looked at it as that, whatever I'm publishing hundreds

Ben:

of gigs a day, it doesn't matter.

Ben:

They're going to have to sift through that information if they really want it.

Ben:

I don't have anything to hide or whatever, you know, you can, you can call that.

Ben:

I don't have anything to hide the reality for me now.

Ben:

They are driving with that data.

Ben:

And I find that I would classify myself as fairly impervious to mental manipulations

Ben:

because I've been exposed to it so much and identified it and recognized it.

Ben:

I am starting to recognize that there are subconscious shifts that

Ben:

I am not capable of controlling, due to outside influence period.

Mat:

Why don't you learn about those things in school, right?

Mat:

Why isn't there an entire course throughout your primary education until

Mat:

you get to college, that's designed to teach you how you're capable of

Mat:

being manipulated as a human being.

Mat:

To help you not to help you be able to manipulate other people, but to be able to

Mat:

identify when that's happening to you, why don't we know that that's such a basic,

Mat:

fundamental understanding of ourselves?

Mat:

Like what you were just going over there.

Mat:

Take that and take a step back to a previous conversation here.

Mat:

Why aren't we ever taught that information?

Mat:

Why don't we know about that?

Ben:

Because it'd be detrimental to potentially society.

Ben:

I don't know why we're not taught that specifically, but I can, I

Ben:

can imagine the justification.

Ben:

Do the justifications outweigh info hazard.

Ben:

Do the justifications outweigh hiding that information and making it not relevant

Mat:

I guess I can't speak on it cause I don't know enough about it.

Mat:

Right?

Mat:

Like there's so many ways that people can be influenced and manipulated

Mat:

and augmented psychologically, physically just the repetition.

Mat:

But in the end, I believe this is my own personal belief.

Mat:

That knowledge is power, right?

Mat:

So if you know that something exists, you can take steps to

Mat:

mitigate its effects on you.

Mat:

If you don't know that it exists, you can't do anything

Mat:

to defend yourself against it.

Mat:

I mean, if the population is a whole new, that different marketing

Mat:

tactics existed to get them to buy things, do you think that they would

Mat:

be inclined to buy those things if they knew exactly how they worked?

Ben:

Right.

Ben:

But the challenge then becomes, okay, great.

Ben:

So I recognize and understand that the pods are designed to emphasize a culture

Ben:

that doesn't want to spend the 30 seconds.

Ben:

It takes to measure out an ingredient for washing your clothes, washing your dishes.

Ben:

That's why tide, pods and dishwasher pods have come to exist because people

Ben:

don't want to spend the time to do it the right way, but I lost my train.

Ben:

I lost my train of thought,

Mat:

Well, I can kind of pick up from you there.

Mat:

So I would agree with that.

Mat:

Like, it's, there's a lot of menial things that are being taken care of in

Mat:

a very beneficial way in our society.

Mat:

But how is that marketed to us?

Mat:

And do we know whether or not that's actually good for us?

Mat:

Right?

Mat:

So let's take your laundry detergent example, your tide pod example there.

Mat:

So if you have a tide pod has a certain amount of ingredients in there.

Mat:

You're given this product and told that this is good for you,

Mat:

and that this is what you need to use to wash your dishes with.

Mat:

And this is how much you need.

Mat:

So to use that much material to clean your dishes, what if it

Mat:

only takes half of that to do it?

Mat:

What if you're being sold an overabundance at an inflated

Mat:

price, just so that they move more.

Ben:

I watched, I don't know if you've ever seen it.

Ben:

Technology connections, guys retrospect.

Ben:

Anyway, he just did a segment on dishwasher, pods, and he said

Ben:

you are using too much dish soap.

Ben:

In fact, unless your water is extremely soft in the United States, you should not

Ben:

even be filling your dishwasher cup fully.

Ben:

And those pods are determined right on the edge of being soft water, not hard water

Ben:

and soft water is a lot harder to combat.

Ben:

When you've got solvents as a result, it makes the soap less effective.

Ben:

So they have to put in more

Mat:

And all of that's going back into our water system.

Ben:

Oh, yeah, you're paying for it on both ends.

Ben:

Actually.

Ben:

We're paying for it on multiple ends.

Ben:

We pay for it when we get it, we pay for it when we put it in the dishwasher,

Ben:

because now we have to run dishwasher loads twice because it's less effective

Ben:

because when you put too much soap in a dishwasher, by the way, it doesn't work.

Ben:

And if you don't use enough, it doesn't work.

Ben:

It has to be a specific amount, which is why they have fill lines.

Ben:

Oh.

Ben:

And they have the presoak for a reason too, which you can't do on pods.

Ben:

Okay, great.

Ben:

So now we've got, we're putting it in the dishwasher.

Ben:

We're using triple the amount of product we should be using because it has to have

Ben:

that triple amount because otherwise some other people would complain and then we're

Ben:

dumping it into the drains to be treated at wastewater facilities, which by the

Ben:

way, we're paying for, when you pay your water bill and then what we're paying

Ben:

for it to be extracted from the ground as well, maybe in terms of climate change,

Mat:

You might be paying for it as far as your health goes to.

Mat:

Cause how much of that is actually getting filtered out and then the

Mat:

end, you're making this decision.

Mat:

We're going to keep tying this back to our, all of our other conversations.

Mat:

Cause everything that we're talking about on here right now goes together.

Mat:

It all goes together.

Mat:

Every single bit of it.

Mat:

Why are you buying that?

Mat:

You think that it's okay.

Mat:

Why do you think it's okay because it's being forced down your throat.

Mat:

There's not many other options.

Mat:

You go to the store, it's either this or that.

Mat:

Right.

Mat:

And then there's very, very few other options that are available.

Mat:

There's 8 billion people on the planet and we got like six or

Mat:

seven options for dish soap.

Mat:

Like what?

Ben:

Oh, by the way, linking this back to money.

Ben:

Corporations buy the shelf space.

Mat:

I wouldn't doubt it.

Ben:

Yeah.

Ben:

They literally do no that that's how grocery stores work.

Ben:

You, you buy an end cap.

Ben:

If you want to feature your product on labor day.

Ben:

For instance, I want 48 inches of the top.

Mat:

You get a product, we'll go back to dish soap.

Mat:

You can do this with anything, you get a product and you want to

Mat:

know a little bit more about it.

Mat:

What do you do?

Mat:

Like how do you look up information about that?

Mat:

If you're truly wanting to be informed, at least in the beginning to

Mat:

understand something, what do you do?

Mat:

You do a Google search what's happening.

Mat:

You're getting the first page or two of results and you're taking that information

Mat:

and adding it to your knowledgebase.

Ben:

Now not only is Google the evil corporation here, because or

Ben:

let's let's just call them evil.

Ben:

I'm not saying you're evil, Google don't Sue me.

Mat:

They're a catchphrase is don't be evil, right?

Ben:

That's right.

Mat:

It might just be an intrinsic property of the system that we live in, or

Mat:

it could be something that's controlled.

Ben:

But here's a further example of that and you were talking about

Ben:

cognitive dissonance and how that data conflicts with our core knowledge base.

Ben:

Well, think about the stances that we as humans take right now, you and I

Ben:

have distinct views on different topics.

Ben:

You're going to search for COVID vaccine proof, challenges, whatever

Ben:

you want to fill in the blank.

Ben:

I'm going to search for COVID death toll.

Ben:

And because I'm searching for COVID death toll, they may be pushing vaccines to me.

Ben:

And because you're searching for information about how the vaccine is

Ben:

manufactured or built, or what RNA strands interact with each other, you're

Ben:

going to be fed information about that and the death toll isn't going to be

Ben:

there and you're not going to be pushed towards vaccines, and you're not going

Ben:

to be because you're digging in and you're trying to find information just

Ben:

the, the subtle shift in a word changes the results on such a dramatic scale.

Mat:

But are the quality of those results different or are the inclination of

Mat:

the end result of the search results?

Mat:

The same.

Mat:

So like if we search two things on the same topic in a spirit of, of

Mat:

being different, like we believe different things on that topic.

Mat:

Are we going to be shown information that pertains to what we choose to believe?

Mat:

Or are we going to be shown information that would tend to incline us towards

Mat:

a very specific conclusion regardless of what either one of us believe?

Ben:

Well, and so now we take into account depends on how

Ben:

good you and I are at Googling.

Ben:

So that's a personal factor.

Ben:

How many, how much time did you want to invest into this?

Ben:

If you wanted to invest 30 seconds, then absolutely.

Ben:

You're going to be biased towards whatever it is that you search for and

Ben:

whatever your cognitive dissonance is because you're going to click on the

Ben:

third link instead of the first link, the first link was set to set you up

Ben:

for a positive spin on this, where the third link is set up on the more

Ben:

acceptable, whatever you want to call it.

Ben:

Cognitive distance dissonance.

Ben:

Now you've got time as a factor of research, even though we have that

Ben:

information at our fingertips, even though that information is already cataloged, we

Ben:

know exactly what those pages say because we built the system that can interpret

Ben:

us as our feelings, as our emotions, as our history, as our past lives,

Ben:

as, as whatever you want to call it.

Ben:

Now you're being swayed and controlled in different manner than you intended to be.

Mat:

I would even take it a step deeper than that.

Mat:

I'd say even if the first and the third links on that front

Mat:

page give you different things, they give you different results.

Mat:

Can you guarantee that the end result is not going to still be the same,

Mat:

that the information that you're being provided, whether it's for or against your

Mat:

argument, that there's not information that's there on that page that is

Mat:

directing you towards something specific?

Ben:

Oh no, no.

Ben:

Everyone is going to be directing you.

Ben:

Well, I mean, I would imagine everyone would be directing you towards something

Ben:

because everyone wants to win the.

Ben:

There would be, uh, an inclination of basic human instinct there of

Ben:

mental survival of the fittest.

Mat:

That ties right into cognitive dissonance, too.

Mat:

You get a fight to protect what you believe.

Mat:

Right?

Ben:

Right.

Mat:

I'll even tie cognitive dissonance into a slightly different

Mat:

aspect that maybe more people would understand take your job.

Mat:

If you don't like your job.

Mat:

There's an aspect of cognitive dissonance associated with that too.

Mat:

But there's also habitual circumstance associated with that.

Mat:

So you're going to keep doing what you're doing if it's based out of habit,

Mat:

but then if you don't like what you're doing, you're going to be unhappy.

Mat:

So unhappiness is going to be an unfortunate result.

Mat:

It's going to be the result of staying in a constant state of cognitive dissonance.

Mat:

When what you're doing is in stark contrast to what you

Mat:

believe or what you want.

Ben:

So now back to the fundamental argument of what's better knowing

Ben:

everything and trying to make a decision and facing decision fatigue.

Ben:

Or taking one side and ignoring the other.

Mat:

Ignorance is bliss.

Mat:

Right?

Ben:

Man.

Ben:

That's, that's the case for some people.

Mat:

Unless you know, too much already.

Ben:

Exactly.

Mat:

But it becomes hard to ignore it, then you can't ignore it.

Ben:

Exactly.

Ben:

And then you're, you're sitting there producing a podcast about knowledge

Ben:

and understanding because you just want to get your point of view across.

Ben:

And this is unbelievable and you can't believe anything is happening like this.

Ben:

Yeah.

Ben:

Never been there before.

Ben:

Don't know what you're talking about.

Ben:

Oh my God.

Ben:

And our society accepts this.

Ben:

Not only does it accept it, encourages it all because we're

Ben:

being lazy, mentally lazy, not even physically lazy hell I'm physically.

Mat:

That ties into it too.

Mat:

You can't have a, uh, an amazingly healthy mental state.

Mat:

You can't reach your maximum potential mentally, unless

Mat:

you're there physically, too.

Mat:

I mean, you can be extremely, extremely smart, but in the end,

Mat:

there is a physical aspect of it, too, that you have endorphins that

Mat:

are running through your body.

Mat:

You have to live a healthy lifestyle to be all cognitively there.

Mat:

There's serotonin that interacts with your body in certain specific

Mat:

ways that affect memory retention.

Mat:

There's a whole bunch of stuff.

Ben:

Hold on, let me crack open my can of Coke here.

Mat:

One of those two options at the Superstore, right?

Ben:

That's right.

Ben:

It's either this or the store brand.

Ben:

So yeah, I agree with you completely physical.

Ben:

Uh, and so now I'm in a situation where I want to be kind of physically active

Ben:

or want to feel like I kind of want to be physically active logically.

Ben:

I know it makes sense emotionally.

Ben:

I think it's going to make sense once I do it, and maybe it doesn't make sense

Ben:

to me right now, but that's, that's beside the point, but I can't get

Ben:

there because our systems trapped me.

Ben:

And I don't know how to break this trap.

Mat:

I don't think it's something that one person can do, man.

Mat:

I think there's an aspect of it where people on the

Mat:

whole have to be aware of it.

Mat:

And that's kind of ties into what I was saying earlier about understanding

Mat:

how you're being manipulated.

Mat:

Is it, we were talking about how is it, is it better to, to know

Mat:

those things or is it better to not know how you're being manipulated?

Mat:

And I would argue that it's better to know how you're being manipulated

Mat:

because if more people knew it, more people would take a stand against it.

Mat:

And one of the biggest things that you can do, and you've probably heard

Mat:

this a million times is when you vote, you vote with your dollar dude.

Mat:

Like you support the institutions that do this stuff.

Mat:

Every time you pay for something, if let's say 10% of the people out there

Mat:

made a decision based on that 10% of that company's revenue would be eradicated.

Ben:

Yes.

Ben:

And I agree with you, but then here comes the challenge of

Ben:

how do you live without it?

Ben:

If you can't make the choice, that's the right way to do it.

Ben:

For instance dishwasher soap, our pod challenge, there are grocery

Ben:

stores and there are supply chains.

Ben:

Now who only sell pods.

Ben:

You get your choice between the store brand or tide or whoever

Ben:

else is the big manufacturers.

Ben:

Those, and that's it.

Ben:

So how do you battle it with the dollar there?

Ben:

You're in the store.

Ben:

You need it today.

Ben:

You can't order it from Amazon and wait the two.

Mat:

Well with that, I mean, it's, that's going to be kind of difficult.

Mat:

Right?

Mat:

You got to kind of plan ahead for some of that stuff.

Mat:

You've got to, that's just a personal aspect that you have to look at.

Mat:

Like, will I need dishwasher pods in a week from now?

Mat:

Okay.

Mat:

Can I take the time while my local store that only sells whole foods

Mat:

and whole goods while they're open Monday through Friday until 8:00 PM.

Mat:

Can I make a quick run there?

Mat:

It's going to be a little bit more expensive, but Hey, at least

Mat:

I'm not adding chemicals that might, uh, they might be staying

Mat:

on my Tupperware or on my dishes.

Mat:

And I might be ingesting that when I eat food or it might be reacting with other

Mat:

chemicals in my food, or somehow being exacerbated in the microwave and becoming

Mat:

airborne and getting infused in my food.

Mat:

Doesn't matter.

Mat:

Is there something that I can do to help stop that?

Mat:

So maybe shopping at a local store to maybe get a more holistic brand

Mat:

that I don't need as much of that might be able to do the same thing.

Mat:

Maybe I can use lemon juice instead and vinegar who knows.

Ben:

That is the solution there.

Ben:

I just, I know that's the solution.

Ben:

I can feel it.

Ben:

And I'm sure there's someone else out there who can agree with me.

Ben:

That is the solution plan.

Ben:

Just a smidge bit ahead, but you're talking to a guy who can't even fucking

Ben:

get out of bed because he's too damn lazy or too damn depressed or whatever.

Ben:

And plan ahead means more work.

Ben:

I can't even plan ahead to get out of bed.

Mat:

Well, you either have.

Mat:

Have to be trained to overcome that, which most human beings

Mat:

aren't by design, let's be honest, or you have to reach a precipice.

Mat:

Most people aren't going to do something until you have to do something.

Mat:

So what's, what's your threshold.

Mat:

What's your cutoff where you're actually going to stop and say, all

Mat:

right, you know what enough is enough.

Mat:

I have to do this.

Mat:

I have to start doing this.

Mat:

I can't live like this any longer.

Mat:

I'm too damn unhappy.

Mat:

I can't continue doing this the way that I'm currently doing it.

Mat:

And I know what the answer is, but the system as a whole is holding

Mat:

me back from being able to do it.

Mat:

At what point do you reach that threshold?

Mat:

Because it's only once you take the step past that threshold, that you're

Mat:

actually going to do something.

Mat:

And it's like that with every human being, for every situation in your

Mat:

entire life, like we're going to choose the path of least resistance until we

Mat:

have something that either benefits us to a degree that we desire it more than

Mat:

anything that we're currently doing, then we're willing to take that step or that

Mat:

we're forced to physically forced to.

Mat:

Like, are you going to change your diet to help diabetes that

Mat:

you might have in the future?

Mat:

Well, are you going to wait until you have diabetes?

Mat:

Are you going to do it before that?

Mat:

Are you going to wait until you're in the hospital?

Mat:

There's a lot of people that will wait until they're in the

Mat:

hospital to make those changes.

Mat:

And even then they're only going to make the change to take the pills, to deal

Mat:

with it because that's the easier option.

Mat:

You're not going to change your lifestyle.

Mat:

And there's some people that have forms of diabetes, right.

Mat:

That that's not the answer to you.

Mat:

Can't fix it that way, but there's a lot of people that do.

Ben:

Yeah.

Ben:

I know.

Ben:

And see, that's the system that is trapping me and I absolutely hate it.

Ben:

I despise it.

Ben:

But at what point do I take that step and say, this is, this is too far.

Ben:

Well, see when you asked me initially I was questioning whether I was

Ben:

even going to be honest enough with myself to give you an answer.

Ben:

The first thing that popped in my mind was when I get physically

Ben:

incapacitated, something physically happens where my health is, whatever

Ben:

I stand up and break a bone because of no calcium and in my bones or whatever.

Ben:

The first thought was physically being incapacitated by this.

Ben:

And I don't know that that's my limit because obviously

Ben:

I do get up and do things.

Ben:

I get up to go to the bathroom.

Ben:

I get up to go outside sometimes.

Ben:

And I got up yesterday to go work at a client's location.

Ben:

So there's no clear answer to me because it's not when I'm physically injured.

Ben:

I didn't want to go to that location yesterday at all.

Ben:

Literally I was, I was telling myself, this is going to be how

Ben:

this is gonna be, hell it was hell.

Ben:

I knew what it was.

Ben:

I knew what it was when I walked into it.

Mat:

But did you have to, to make a living, like, did you have

Mat:

to, to make sure that you have a roof over your head the next day?

Mat:

Like those are equally as valid reasons to do those types of things, right?

Ben:

Right.

Ben:

Did I have to, technically not at this moment, no.

Ben:

I didn't have to, to keep a roof roof over my head.

Ben:

I don't have an inclination as to why I went other than, because

Ben:

that's what society expects of me.

Ben:

But this entire slump that I'm in is because of societal expectations.

Ben:

And that's why when most people ask me what caused this, why is this a problem?

Ben:

What is it that you feel you need to overcome?

Ben:

I can't give them an answer because it's not physical incapacitation.

Ben:

It's not because I don't want to.

Ben:

It's not because.

Ben:

I want to, cause I, I certainly don't want to get up right now.

Ben:

I don't feel the mental inclination or desire to get up.

Ben:

I I'm comfortable.

Ben:

Why would I want to get up conservation of energy?

Ben:

So what is it that I'm struggling to overcome?

Mat:

Is it just the wall that's being put up by society as a whole?

Mat:

And it's, you know, when I have this time to myself, I need to utilize it to the

Mat:

fullest of its capacity because I might not have this at another point in my life

Mat:

because it's just, maybe you've been.

Mat:

And when I say you, I mean, anybody out there that could be

Mat:

listening to this right now, maybe you're you feel like you've been

Mat:

taken advantage of at your job.

Mat:

And you're just, when you get off at the end of the day, you're just at a

Mat:

point where you can't think you just used all of your beneficial, usable

Mat:

human energy to help benefit this company or this corporation, or maybe

Mat:

you've been in a bunch of different jobs where that's happened, where

Mat:

you've given your all to that situation.

Mat:

You just been burned in the end, right?

Mat:

So it's like how many times are you run down mentally before you

Mat:

just get to that kind of state?

Ben:

I can give you a count of roughly an approximation probably

Ben:

in days, it might be easier.

Ben:

And months, or years or decades, 12 years, roughly of those 12 years, I

Ben:

also had one appendicitis that was taken out in the emergency room, by the

Ben:

way, and then was told by the company that I was working for at that time

Ben:

that I would be terminated when I got back because I was sick for too much.

Ben:

And I'm mentally drained.

Ben:

I worked 24 hour shifts.

Mat:

That's bad for your mental health and intrinsically, if you're in a bad

Mat:

mental state, like that affects you physically, too, everything goes together.

Mat:

All of your body systems too whether it's your mind, your body, your spirit, if you

Mat:

will, how you interact with the world.

Mat:

It all goes together, being healthy.

Mat:

And we were talking just a little while ago about making decisions

Mat:

for health based on how close to a critical situation are you.

Mat:

Right?

Mat:

So some people there's a lot of people that they don't know that they're

Mat:

unhealthy in certain ways until they actually get into the hospital or

Mat:

they don't make that decision to stop smoking until they have the cancer,

Mat:

or they don't make that decision to change their diet until they've

Mat:

wound up in the hospital because they have stones somewhere or something.

Mat:

You look at that, and then you look at our healthcare system.

Mat:

You gotta think to yourself, is there another issue of by design here?

Mat:

Because our system is mechanistic and it treats the symptoms a lot of times,

Mat:

opposed to the actual root causes.

Mat:

A lot of times, it's just a guessing game.

Mat:

What that root cause is.

Mat:

I have a sister that went to Mayo clinic 12 times and they still couldn't

Mat:

figure out what was wrong with her.

Mat:

They kept throwing medications and trials and different workarounds on her just to

Mat:

see if, see, to see if anything worked.

Mat:

So it's like, let's see if we can throw stuff at it.

Mat:

That'll treat these symptoms to make sure that you're not

Mat:

feeling this way any longer.

Mat:

And it's like, you're one of the largest medical associated, like one of the

Mat:

most well-renowned and respected medical associations in the entire country.

Mat:

My sister had to go to you guys 12 times for you guys to just

Mat:

throw experimental applications at something you had no idea about.

Mat:

You had no idea.

Mat:

You didn't even have a baseline for anything to work off of.

Mat:

And you were just throwing medication at her.

Ben:

God, I've got a similar story to.

Ben:

My wife was diagnosed and treated for over a year of her life with Sjogren's

Ben:

disease, which you can't get rid of.

Ben:

Another doctor ran some tests on her blood work again and said, yeah,

Ben:

that's a little high, but that's not Sjogren's here's Sjogren's.

Ben:

And he showed her the blood work side by side.

Mat:

So there was a diagnosis of a disease that didn't even fit

Mat:

the definition of that disease.

Ben:

Correct.

Ben:

And my wife was treated for it.

Ben:

She was on multiple medications for it.

Ben:

And some of those medications, one of those medications in fact, caused

Ben:

her to blackout well driving and rear end a vehicle at 35 miles an hour.

Mat:

Holy cow.

Ben:

My, uh mother-in-law and father-in-law were driving back with me.

Ben:

I was in their vehicle and she was driving separate.

Ben:

I was in their vehicle and we're like, wow, this road's backed up.

Ben:

Wow.

Ben:

There's an ambulance there.

Ben:

Oh, that's why it's backed up.

Ben:

Oh, that's my van.

Ben:

That's not good.

Mat:

We'll save this conversation for another day, but I do want to present

Mat:

it because it's a very real thing.

Mat:

The pharmaceutical industry's influence on the education of those

Mat:

individuals that actually do the prescriptions and the diagnoses.

Ben:

Oh my God.

Mat:

So to a certain degree, you know, it makes sense that that situation happened.

Mat:

Like that's the way that people were taught and trained in school because the

Mat:

company that's benefiting off of that, or the companies that are benefiting off

Mat:

of that have a direct influence on that.

Ben:

Well, yeah.

Ben:

And so then it came up to a situation where we couldn't prove it, even though

Ben:

it was a side effect, we couldn't prove without a shadow of doubt that she

Ben:

blacked out due to that medication.

Ben:

Even though that's a side effect of the medication, because the doctors had not

Ben:

diagnosed her with that or said yes, or recorded it in documentation, that

Ben:

she'd been blacking out because she didn't know she'd been blacking out.

Ben:

Cause she started it a week ago and maybe it just built up to that point.

Ben:

And that was the first time she'd ever blacked out from it.

Ben:

But here's the worst thing.

Ben:

We're six years later, she still can't remember a single thing from that moment.

Ben:

It's just a gaping void.

Ben:

A rear end collision at 35 miles an hour.

Ben:

A trip in the ambulance to the hospital is a gaping void.

Mat:

That's scary, man.

Ben:

Because of this medicine for disease that she never had.

Mat:

There would have been a major lawsuit there.

Mat:

If you guys could have proved your case, not saying that's the right way to try

Mat:

to tackle all of our problems in society, because I think personally that that's

Mat:

one of the things that's wrong with it is every time there's, unless it's

Mat:

needed, unless you caused actual damage to somebody physically or mentally that they

Mat:

can't recuperate from and you've ruined the rest of their life because of that,

Mat:

you know, at that point, it's completely understandable, but everybody tends to

Mat:

jump on the train of trying to prove that I think in this situation that might have.

Mat:

You know, applicable because it's straight on accident with another vehicle you

Mat:

blacked out, you can't remember anything.

Mat:

You don't have a memory of your life.

Mat:

That by all rights, you should have had an an awake and conscious state.

Ben:

Right.

Ben:

But then they can go back to her pregnancy file and say, well, at

Ben:

one point you had glucose monitoring because your blood sugar was low when

Ben:

you were carrying a baby, which is again, completely unrelated to her

Ben:

current state of physical wellbeing.

Ben:

But because she had that gestational diabetes, they can then state, well,

Ben:

perhaps her blood sugar dipped.

Ben:

And that's why she blacked out.

Mat:

Things that make you not want to go get help when you

Mat:

actually need it sometimes.

Mat:

Right.

Mat:

Cause what if I get help for this one thing?

Mat:

And then it comes back to bite me in the butt later on.

Ben:

Yep.

Mat:

I want to do this.

Mat:

Well, we don't want you to do this job because we feel like you might

Mat:

be unfit because you had this medical episode that happened seven years

Mat:

ago and we can't guarantee that it's not going to happen again.

Ben:

Yep.

Ben:

Which comes back to seeking help for mental.

Mat:

Exactly.

Mat:

Is it a logical thing to try to get help for mental health during a time when

Mat:

everybody's being forced to be inside.

Mat:

And we can't see other human beings and we can't beneficially be outside

Mat:

and enjoy the world and have a lot of fun, like, is that depressing?

Mat:

Heck yeah, that's depressing.

Mat:

If you went and got diagnosed for it, and then you tried to be a fighter

Mat:

pilot later on, probably be declined.

Ben:

Yeah, so I'm putting it jeopardy my future because I'm

Ben:

depressed and I need assistance.

Ben:

And now, since I've been crying for help for three or six months, I'm sure

Ben:

it's been classified as major depression now versus seasonal depression.

Ben:

So my category has been upgraded because I can't.

Ben:

Oh, and by the way, I'm still not getting help, so sure you're

Ben:

upgraded, but we still can't help you.

Mat:

We've taken the time to define you as this.

Mat:

However, we can't do much more than that.

Ben:

Yep.

Ben:

All of these things lead me into the thought pattern that the us is not nearly

Ben:

the giant at once, was everything I read about the 50, 60 seventies even tell me

Ben:

that my parents grew up in a different world and we all know that definition,

Ben:

but I'm talking the fundamentals of our economy, the fundamentals of the

Ben:

mindset of watching your neighbors back, instead of watching your neighbor for the

Ben:

slightest slip, the fundamental world, they, they grew up and I'm jealous of it.

Mat:

I think a lot of things have changed some for the better and a

Mat:

lot for the worse, but definitely some for the better too majorly.

Mat:

I mean, we're always striving for progress as we continue forward as human beings.

Mat:

Right.

Mat:

It kind of goes back to, is it by design to a certain degree, because

Mat:

there's a question that exists of how badly do the people that are in charge

Mat:

of the situation as a whole and the people that are a part of the system

Mat:

want a society of free and independent, critically thinking populous citizens.

Mat:

How bad do you want that situation?

Ben:

Well, clearly the citizens have chosen not to want it.

Mat:

Is that their choice?

Mat:

That's a, this is a very, very, very critical question.

Mat:

Is that a choice that you're knowingly making or are you in a situation

Mat:

physically and mentally where there are walls that are around you

Mat:

that put you into this position?

Mat:

Is that a choice that you're actually making.

Ben:

Well, they want you to believe that it is, this is all my fault, but

Ben:

it's not, but it is, but it's not.

Ben:

And then how much blame do I shift is my entire mental wellbeing currently

Ben:

because of the mental health system?

Ben:

No.

Mat:

I think this is just me.

Mat:

I have nothing to back this up, but I think personally that the only thing

Mat:

that we have control over with respect to that, and this leads to control

Mat:

over everything as an individual.

Mat:

Actually, the only thing that we have control over in the beginning

Mat:

is when we are presented with information, we have a choice.

Mat:

Do we choose to look into that information or do we choose not to?

Mat:

And when we look into it, what, what other information are we provided with?

Mat:

Is this more credible than that?

Mat:

What tells me that this is more credible than that?

Mat:

And then it's up to you to make the choice.

Mat:

Am I going to act on that information or not?

Mat:

Am I going to do something about it?

Mat:

Am I going to change my spending habits or not, am I going to wake up earlier

Mat:

and make my bed so that the first thing that I do during the day is something

Mat:

that I accomplished so that I can go through the rest of my day, knowing

Mat:

that I started my day with something that I accomplished and maybe try to

Mat:

accomplish more things throughout the day.

Mat:

Am I going to try to broaden my understanding of what it means to be happy

Mat:

versus what happiness actually feels like?

Mat:

And what actually brings me that?

Mat:

Am I going to try to broaden my understanding of what's good for me?

Mat:

And what's not good for me?

Mat:

Am I going to try to look at what information is provided to me?

Mat:

When I do research on that to try to understand if maybe my

Mat:

definition is being manipulated.

Mat:

So I think the choice that we all have is what are you going to do with

Mat:

the information that you're provided?

Ben:

That is a good question, but what I want to do versus what I can

Ben:

actually achieve right now is so low that I don't know where the bounds are.

Mat:

I do truly believe that no matter how caught in that situation, anybody feels

Mat:

they are, that you do still have options.

Mat:

So I can, instead of going to the big wall or the, uh, the giant Mart to get

Mat:

your groceries, Maybe you can go down the road to, I would say Aldi, I'm going to

Mat:

put them in a positive light here because they might have products that are organic.

Mat:

They might have things that are on the cheap end, right?

Mat:

It might actually be more cost-effective to go to a different

Mat:

store rather than a big chain store.

Mat:

They might have not saying that Aldi isn't a big chain store, but they might

Mat:

have tendencies, which might be a little bit better for you as a human being.

Mat:

It's up to you to make that determination, right?

Mat:

I'm not saying that you should go to this store over that store.

Mat:

You should not shop at that store.

Mat:

You should not shop at that store.

Mat:

Make that decision yourself.

Mat:

Like, are you worried about the increased cost?

Mat:

From living a healthier lifestyle.

Mat:

And are there other options or opportunities that are within your

Mat:

spending ability to be able to do that?

Mat:

Even if it's just a couple things a day, if you augment 25% of your diet

Mat:

to be as healthy as you possibly can, that's a 25% increase for you as a

Mat:

human being for your physical and mental wellbeing for the rest of your life.

Ben:

Oh, and I agree, but then I come to the situation where all of these

Ben:

things take time to prepare or to set up or to enjoy because you need to

Ben:

wash spinach, you need to wash lettuce.

Ben:

Okay.

Ben:

So you can wash it and then put it in the fridge as one big batch.

Ben:

Sure.

Ben:

But then spinach wilts, because for me, I would rather not eat than get

Ben:

up and go find something to eat.

Ben:

So I wait for dinner and at dinner I want protein because I'm hungry.

Ben:

I want something that's going to last.

Ben:

We all choose these things.

Ben:

And I agree that I am making choices, but I also agree that unfortunately,

Ben:

I don't know how to change my choices and I've always been in control.

Ben:

I'm a control freak, but I have literally lost my drive.

Mat:

I feel very similar with respect to the protein aspect.

Mat:

I mean, I try to get three meals in a day.

Mat:

Right.

Mat:

But it's on the whole, I feel like I probably eat a little

Mat:

bit too much meat than I should.

Mat:

I feel like there's a social stigma associated with that.

Mat:

That's just my own personal belief.

Mat:

I agree with you.

Mat:

And I definitely way too much, meat.

Mat:

There's a whole industry around that that we might not even get into right now.

Ben:

You mean that it's cheaper to sell it than it is.

Ben:

It costs less to sell it than what it costs to produce.

Mat:

Well, the, just everything that goes into it.

Mat:

So how much work, how much effort, how much money goes into making that

Mat:

versus what you could live off of off of a couple of acres of land?

Mat:

You know what I mean?

Mat:

I'm no one to talk.

Mat:

I love meat, man.

Mat:

I love eating my bacon.

Mat:

I was just telling you a little while ago, I'm about to go make a pack of bacon, some

Mat:

sausage fry up some eggs and just have a, a good breakfast at lunchtime here.

Mat:

But in the end, is that necessary?

Mat:

Right?

Mat:

Can I make a delicious food?

Mat:

That's extremely healthy for me that might not raise certain things in my

Mat:

blood that are not very beneficial for me.

Mat:

Can I live a healthier lifestyle and still enjoy what I'm eating for sure.

Mat:

Could I get a lot more out of maybe having my own garden on my own land

Mat:

here and just eating off of that every year and canning stuff and putting

Mat:

stuff away for the winter time?

Mat:

Heck yeah, you can put away a lot of food if he can it, it doesn't take

Mat:

that much land to support a couple of human beings in a household, but it

Mat:

does to support the animal livestock.

Mat:

It takes a lot of.

Mat:

Then you've got the issues of lobbying too.

Mat:

Right?

Mat:

So what was it?

Mat:

One of the senior board members on a major pharmaceutical corporation that's

Mat:

currently funding, a major vaccine is, um, from one of their panel members is

Mat:

also on the board for the FDA, right?

Ben:

Something like that.

Ben:

I remember hearing something like that.

Mat:

Is that not a conflict of interest that clearly happens too,

Mat:

in that situation, like there's conflicts of interest that happen

Mat:

within that industry potentially.

Ben:

Right.

Ben:

So then, then I start to dig into, okay, who can make these changes?

Ben:

Is it because we live in a capitalist environment?

Ben:

I don't think so.

Ben:

I think it's because we allow politicians to be influenced and that's

Ben:

because we as humans want more money.

Mat:

That should be life in prison.

Mat:

If you vote to pass bills a certain way associated with certain, certain

Mat:

things, doesn't matter whether it's smoking or other bills that go through.

Mat:

If you vote a certain way, and it is found that you have received funding

Mat:

in any way, shape or form or support from that industry, it doesn't matter

Mat:

if it's for or against the bill.

Mat:

It doesn't matter which direction it is.

Mat:

If you receive funding from an individual or an entity that is in any way, shape

Mat:

or form associated with that first and foremost, you should lose your positioning

Mat:

government 150 freaking percent.

Mat:

Then there should be an investigation into how deep did that actually go.

Mat:

And depending on the severity of it, you should probably spend life in prison

Mat:

because those decisions that you're making as an individual you're meant to

Mat:

represent the people, not a corporation or a company, and you're changing laws

Mat:

for millions of people, your actions are influencing millions of people.

Ben:

They're putting an entire industry, a $1.9 billion industry, by the way, Out

Ben:

of business vape shops cannot stay in business because they don't have juice.

Mat:

Another question that comes to my mind is what percentage, what

Mat:

percentage of the vape industry does the smoking industry control?

Mat:

And is, is that a very, very small portion and is that a reason why

Mat:

they're so vehemently against it?

Mat:

Right.

Mat:

Clearly the vaping industry would be cutting in on the

Mat:

smoking industires action.

Mat:

And if they are able to get a large market share to, to control that

Mat:

industry as well and make profit off of that, that makes sense.

Ben:

They're not.

Ben:

So they've been trying since 2015 to, uh, expand the growth of Juul pots because the

Ben:

tobacco industry is backing disposable.

Mat:

Of course.

Mat:

Of course.

Ben:

Of course.

Mat:

Planned obsolescence, right?

Ben:

Yeah.

Ben:

Yup.

Ben:

The, the tobacco industry is backing the disposable side of vaping.

Ben:

There's an

Mat:

interesting connection that I'd like to draw here.

Mat:

It deals with government intrinsically here.

Mat:

So if you're backing the disposable aspect of it, you're backing the replacement

Mat:

you're you're backing dependency.

Mat:

So if you want to keep using Juul or any other disposable product out there, if you

Mat:

want to keep using a disposable product.

Mat:

You're reliant on that entity, right?

Mat:

Yep.

Mat:

How might that play into government?

Mat:

What other aspects of government are people reliant on?

Mat:

And how does that force control?

Ben:

I guess it depends on how macro you want to go.

Ben:

And my first thought is the IRS.

Mat:

I was thinking like Medicare or something like that.

Ben:

I know, I know, I know you were thinking police departments or

Ben:

kind of local, moderate government, but I'm looking at it from a big

Ben:

picture of, there are millions of Americans every year who rely on a

Ben:

refund check from the IRS to survive.

Mat:

I would agree with that.

Mat:

There's an aspect of that that goes into tax deductions associated

Mat:

with more children, right?

Mat:

Oh yeah.

Mat:

If somebody relies on you for something, they can, you control them.

Mat:

If, if you are reliant on a system, it doesn't matter what that system is.

Mat:

Sounding like the matrix here.

Mat:

If you are reliant on a system, that system controls you, it

Mat:

makes the decisions for you.

Mat:

It doesn't matter what it is.

Mat:

Doesn't matter if it's food health care.

Mat:

It doesn't matter if it's jobs, whatever that system is.

Mat:

If you rely on that system, it controls you because you're

Mat:

relying on it for a specific.

Mat:

And if they use that reason to their advantage, they can make you do whatever

Mat:

you need to do or whatever they want you to do in order to come to the

Mat:

decision that if you don't do this, then this is going to be taken away

Mat:

from you because you rely on this.

Mat:

You can't afford to have that be taken away from you.

Ben:

Which comes back to the government and who's making the final decision.

Ben:

And why are politicians making those final decisions that benefit the

Ben:

tobacco company in the beginning?

Mat:

There's a lot of people that are reliant on the vaping

Mat:

industry to get off of cigarettes.

Ben:

Oh yes.

Ben:

And the FDA is being taken to court by several companies already.

Ben:

Right now, did you know there's actually a law against government controlling

Ben:

an industry so closely, such as like that to the point where they can

Ben:

control the livelihood of businesses.

Mat:

So, so what you're telling me is that forced mandates that cut businesses,

Mat:

populations from actually getting people in there to do commerce with them is

Mat:

hurting them and that could be illegal?

Ben:

It is illegal.

Ben:

Yeah.

Mat:

How ironic to our current situation.

Ben:

I know it's almost like we thought about that.

Ben:

Look at Microsoft.

Ben:

How much trouble did they get in for having, uh, internet Explorer

Ben:

bundled with Microsoft windows?

Mat:

Um, man, my mind is wanting to take me in a completely different

Mat:

direction since you brought up Microsoft, but we're not going to go there.

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